You Brett Your Life w/Brett Claywell aka Tim Smith • EP221

Queen's Drama, Queens Drama, Queens Drama, Queens. We're here to talk about Nathan returning home from the hospital with unpaid bills in episode twenty one of season two what could have been air date May seventeen, two thousand and five. So Nathan's poor, The friends throw them a movie night fundraiser at Trick. Lucas is determined to take down Dan and he enlists Andy for help. Meanwhile, Dan is inexplicably again trying to make amends with Nathan and encourages him

to move back home. I mean, can he stop barking up this tree already? Why telling Haley a big lie about her marriage? Peyton suggests Brooke is getting closer to Lucas. Is it a lie? Though? That's in the synopsis that he's telling a lie, but we don't know that Nathan didn't sign those papers. No, so I don't know if it was a lie or not. Actually, yeah, I think all of the implications are actually pointing to the fact

that he just did. But it was off camera. We all said this episode was kind of like expository and there was like a lot of dialogue of Hilt, like we were setting things up or wrapping things up. But it was directed by Bethany Rooney, who sure is good at her job. Bethany Rooney's good people too. She's just like a cool person. I like her. Yeah, I've worked with her on a couple other shows, and she's just such a solid director. And so the way this episode was shot, it was so fun. The movie Night at

Trick looked like a super fun party. The scenes between Brook and Lucas are super intimate and sweet. You know, So then that gut at the end hurt. The scene of Haley like you know what, husband and then like

falling into her tears at the keyboard. Yeah. Yeah, she did a great direction making us care because this episode kind of felt like, I mean, we know everything that we were just coming off of the last few episodes were not stellar, so to to get I feel like the writing room, the writer's room has somewhere else, like a whole different path for everybody that they want to go on right now, but they couldn't just jump into it right away. We had to tie up all these

loose ends. And that's kind of what this episode felt like. It was tying up blues ends and opening some new doors. So there's not a lot that happens, but it's preparing. And it was interesting to me because I felt like the writers used Nathan as the bridge, you know, like like if we were doing games at camp and someone had to be the one, Like like Nathan is the one, and suddenly he's like this wise sage oracle, who's just all, what, it's hilarious. It's hilarious to me. If Nathan is the oracle?

What does that make Dan Hillary called it, Oh my god, listen Dan with the paperwork in this episode, I'm like, is he Ursula the Sea Witch? He's just like, give me a voice. Kid signed his paper and they call your dreams go true. Oh I love Dan the Sea Witch. Someone listen. There's gonna be a fan out there that puts Dan's face on Ursula's body and it is going to please me give it to us. Yeah, pretty fat body.

Oh my god. Even the way he approached you in that scene and he was like, what do you think Nathan sent me like it was wiggling his body. God. Okay, you guys are just gonna bad talk about Dan because he is so confusing to me in this episode. We've seen him have changes of heart before, and they were all motivated by some life threatening incident, his first one being what the heart attack he had with attack when he ded was like I hope you die or he

said you better hope. I wait, you just reminded me of something, because Dan had that weird like if you think about it, like a syndrome. He had like post heart attack syndrome. I don't know if this is a real thing, but we're saying it is for this argument. Well, I know there's like things people have sometimes, Like there is a real affliction called a post urgical depression. So

I'm wondering if like there's a you know, post forcident high. Yes, Like like a near death experience can give you kind of a high or a clarity, and Dan had that near death experience high where he was being weird and remember dead was like, you're freaking everybody out, you know. And now Nathan just had this near death experience and he's this wise sage. He's like, Mom, you're just a human doing your best. And it's what if me and Haley have been spending too much energy in the wrong places.

Like he's suddenly like a therapist. It's crazy. And I a teenage boy who has never seen a therapist, who definitely shoots, definitely is not in touch with his feelings in the way that that Lucas is or any of the basis basic character. He's like this child just trying to kill himself, this child child just trying to kill himself. And the writers are like, should we send him do a shrink? No, no, no, let's send us drunk? Oh mom, yeah,

you know, rahab facility is just going to happen. And then he makes a doctor Phil joke when Lucas says, you need to talk to someone, and yet through the episode, the writers gave him the dialogue of a forty six year old college professor therapist. Right right. It was very bizarre, very bizarre, But I will say as bizarre as it felt, I got a hand it to James. He did a

beautiful job. Always he was so grounded in in these sort of emotional realizations that Nathan is having that you know, in the hands of another very young actor might have felt really soap opright and weird, and and he really he did it beautifully, even though the dialogue, when we think about it on the page, is a little ridiculous for a teenage boy. Yeah, he committed that, that is. I mean, you can never accuse James of not fully committing to his material. Whatever you give him. He throws

himself at it. And I loved seeing that, But I'm still confused about why Dan as suddenly having a change of heart with crying and crying and like and then well then I mean he's still like, this is how far we've come. You don't believe me when I'm sincere, No, no one believes you. Ever. He's the ultimate boy that cried wolf. I think part of what made that seem

feel weird too. You know, Nathan goes in there and they're having this argument, but it's set like a weird TV movie with like the fire going like the set felt like a soap opera, and then the music we're making me insane. It was a lot of slow jet. It was really weird, so it kind of undercut the moment, which now I'm going, well, I wonder if it was a device to make you feel like it was insincere. I don't know. Now I'm going like a full beautiful mine trying to connect the meta. It's like, what are

we doing? Um? I think it was so that Nathan would just move in with his dad so that like the chicks could live in the apartment. I mean, honestly, how much debauchery can we get up to when you're living with Karen? Um? This is? Is this how Brook gets the apartment? Like? Are we just setting up? Are sweet? Because Hailey comes home at some point and then I move in there? Or do I move in first? I actually don't remember. I just remember we had two beds

in one room. And I actually did that one summer in college. My best friend and I couldn't afford to get an apart a two bedroom apartment in l A for the summer, so we got a tiny little studio we had two beds in. It was actually the way I would still do that, honestly, saying do you guys want to just get to crash. My husband's not into it, but I'm like, I live on a commune, and he's like,

I'm more introverted than you. I'm like, I want to be underneath other humans always, just like in a puppy pip, I want a nap in a group, and Grant is like, I we are not the same. Do you know how sometimes like people will pick up things that we say from the podcast and make them into news stories. I need Sophie's news story this week to be like I just want to be underneath people. I don't mean that in a sexually. I'm realizing as you've repeated it that

it sounds terrible. I don't mean like somebody. You mean like I just want to I want to, like I want to snuggle like new puppies all the time. Brooks about to get there. And and this is the episode that set it up. I think, um, this whole thing about Nathan needing to raise money because he's poor, all of a sudden, I love it. That's the device on our show that's like, oh man, Brooks, poor Nathan's poor.

This is the worst. There's poor poor kids. I think I would imagine that like they had written all the other stuff for the episode, and they just went, oh, we can't do another episode like this in a row of just a bunch of talking heads and nothing happening. And somebody said, we need a big group event to happen in this in the midst of all this other stuff. And then somebody came up with the movie Night, which

was cute. I mean, what loved loved the setup for it, with the river Cort boys hang out and everybody appears. That felt so good, natural and really how it was in real life behind the scene. We need more of that energy. I can't figure out what parents let their high school teenagers go to a bar for like a lock in. Maybe it wasn't again, maybe it wasn't overnight. Yeah.

The thing when you said that, when we were watching the episode, I thought, oh, yeah, there's no there's no like bar cage, Like there's nothing that locks up the alcohol. They just trust us, Like what all these young kids and you think nobody's gonna like swipe a bottle from bar. This feels like parenting one on one. But I guess they've figured that they've established a trust with tricks high school Night or like none. Yeah, because it is where

they lock up the liquor elsewhere, like it's kept off premises. Yeah, these are the things I wanted explain. I will say. I remember there's a there was a really fun you know honestly kind of like a high school slash college club in l A. Not like you know, a sunset club like the places people used to sneak into that you saw in the news, but like they would do.

They would do high school nights. They would do these all ages nights, and they would I remember they would card people at the door, and you know, you could get in if you were seventeen or eighteen, but for kids who were older, and I think you couldn't come in past like twenty three or something. But they had like a separate room, and so the kids that were of age got wristbands and only they could go into

the room where the bar was. But I remember the rest of us like we had just graduated and we turned eighteen, and we felt like so cool to be there, just like we're going dancing like the grown kids to But but like Trick doesn't have a separate space, so I guess they just think one siphoning off the bar. I don't know, are we going to open an all ages clubs neural idea. I'm at. I loved being a

camp counselor. I'm ready because when I was in high school, I remember that there were a couple like places in town that did that, and I was never allowed to go to them because my dad was just like, perverts hang out in those places, like fishing for teenage girls. Yeah, well, yeah, you got That's why you got to have an age limit. You can't just have like forty year old men in a bar with seventeen year old It's like teenage night or something. But you can't that. Do you guys? Remember

the first time you ever got drunk? Uh? Yeah, yeah, I want to talk about it. Well, I'm having that visceral moment of like remembering the feeling of going, oh, I don't like this because the first couple of times you do it, you don't know your body, you don't do it. Well, it's not elegant. Mm hmmm. No. I didn't drink really like they would have margarite to Fridays on TRL, but because I was everyone's little sister, everyone was real touchy about like, okay, you could have one,

you know. I feel like I'm gonna get people in trouble. Um. But the first time I really remember being like hammered was my twenty one birthday at the MTV Beach House with Ashley Simpson and her sister was visiting, and Jessica had just had her birthday or was going to have her birthday, and was like everyone was kind of making it about her, and I was like, it's my birthday, and and I just remember being so so so drunk and coming home and my boyfriend trying to like make

sure I was thrown up in a bucket, and I was just like, David, David, leave me alone. And boy, his name sure, wasn't it Probably? Oh yeah. I waited a really long time. Um. And then I made up for it when we moved to Wellington. Yeah yeah. Champagne, Champagne girl, Champagne. I was too young to go and some rich boy took me on a date. Mm hmm. I think his last name was like Van van Elswick or something like that. Oh my god, like a Gossip Girl character. Totally totally, Oh my god, you could have

written him right out of Gossip Girl. Uh. Yeah. I went to the Bubble Lounge and um, I probably I feel like I've talked about this on the show before. Anyway, I drank champagne at the table and then got up to go to the bathroom. In the whole room just like spun around me and kind of went, oh, that's what this feeling is. I didn't know that. I think it was eighteen. I was never much a big drinker, though. I mean, I don't like the feeling of being drunk,

and I definitely don't like it the next morning. That headache is not good. Yeah, I I was much more often the designated driver than not I was. And also, like high school, when you know, it was a big house party culture out here, and my mom was so scary. I was like, it's just not worth it. So, you know, I got drunk here and there with friends, but more often than not, I drove everybody because I was like,

I just don't want to piss off more. I would care to her, what kind of scary is I want to call her most so bad, but she won't let me. What kind of scary? I know, you worked on her for almost twenty years and she's like, no, no, she's that kind of scary. But what kind of scary is she? With she kind of mom, that's like scary because if you like, if you tell me, then I will show up for you and it'll be okay. But if you don't tell me, I will, like you'll be in trouble

for the rest of your life. Or is she like, don't ever do any of this stuff. If you ever do, I'll murder you before you get a chance to do it again. With my mom created what I like to call the holy parenting Trinity because she managed to be all of the things at once. So point one my mother was like kid, I grew up in New York with a crazy Italian family that got into you'll never

see that you might see in a movie. So then it was like, oh my god, I'm so intimidated by this woman who, like you know, partied in a place where so did Andy Warhol. Then the next point was you also just don't want to be the person everyone's talking about on Monday. It's so embarrassing, it's so tacky. So then there was like the shame spiral. And then the last point of the trifecta, the third and I think perfect thing to say was if you do decide to drink because you're a kid, and you're going to

be curious and everybody's going to at some point. Don't be stupid enough to get in a car with someone else. If you get in a car with someone else after you or any of your friends have been drinking, I will kill you myself. If you call me, I will come pick you up, because I will be more proud of you for calling me than I would ever be mad at you for trying something I know you're going to try eventually. Anyway, I just want you to be safe.

So it created this whole thing where I was like, well, I can never get away with anything, so I'm not gonna try. I also really don't want to call my mom to pick me how to put a party, because how embarrassing. So I'll drive and and you know, And then I was like, and yeah, every once in a while, when i'm gonna like break the prost, I'll sleep over at somebody else's house because I really don't want to have to see my mother. I don't want to come home,

and I just don't want to come home. I'll like, I'll go to the party I can walk to from like my high school best friend's house, and that's the party. We'll drink out and we'll walk home because I'm not going to put myself in the line of fire for this like scary East Coast woman. It's scary. That's where

I get it. Um. Well, look, we had strong mom energy here, except Karen wasn't at the All Ages Club making sure that everybody was like sober and not hooking up atending you Hillary, Karen was in charge of the night. What happened. Karen's at home sending an emails to Keey boy Um. You know, Andy's like being bff with Lucas and She's like, Keith, I just really care about you, and you know, I don't know. That letter was a little that felt like another was putting out a feeler.

It just felt like another bridge that I was like, where did this come from? Like Karen was just very much in it with Andy and feeling protected, you know, in her relationship with Andy. Andy's like out on a limb, trying to help her and help Keith and then he lost his job. He's like trying to help Lucas and it's like they never interact once in this episode. She's just like Keith, pay attention to me, Keith, Keith Keith,

I'm not going anywhere. Is that which is? I guess the other side of it, though, is this is her best friend. He's been around forever Femer and she in small part, I guess, in part contributed to the situation at being left at the altar, you know what I mean, she could have told him earlier. She didn't. You know, It's like I get it, and I I don't know that anybody would have anybody else would have made a different decision, But there is a lot. I mean, it's

her best friend. What are you gonna do? You cann just like ignore and let him, let him just like go and not check in and not be like, hey, you're real. Maybe it's just the supplemental stuff of like looking at the photo album also felt kind of like romantic. They supplemented the email with some other just like layers that felt like we were the family. And I think we also came out of a scene where Nathan's talking about his family, you know, like there's a lot of

family talk in this episode. Yeah, for the whole for the whole gang and revisiting the past is a theme in this episode. So Karen is revisiting the former family structure that she had with Keith and Lucas. And then Nathan is revisiting the former structure he used to have with his parents, but also with Tim and Peyton, like sitting around in Trick, that little club of Nathan, Tim and Peyton before our pilot episode, that was the group that hung out, Like how many Friday nights did those

guys spend together? But we never got to see it, And so seeing that group together was just kind of a rewind for the audience, you know, of like what could have been. You know, if Lucas had never shown up, it would have still been Tim and Peyton and Nathan sitting around on a couch being miserable, bitching about all the things. That was the scene. It's good, good stuff. Well, speaking of Tim speaking, guys, we have a really special guest. Brett clay Well is here. He's here so excited to

talk with him in real life. He's a good guy. It's true. It's true. The man who is so good, so good with those beats. He takes a little morsel on a page and makes it into a very tasty, comedic meal. We've got the one and only Tim Brett clay Well. Get him in here. I feel like we should be doing the Ravens cheer for him when he got Can I see this pony that's happening? Oh my god, Yeah I haven't. I haven't cut my hair since my son was more than Oh my gosh, how how old

is your son? Right? Finn is over to so he's two years and three months months almost seven months to babies. I have to COVID baby. What the hell else was there to do? There was nothing else to do, was nothing else to do? No wrong was born right u January, so we got back to l A. He was born in Perth uh March three and the lockdown started two weeks later. So it's been stuck with But it was great. I got so much time with my kids. I got

amazing little dude, a little little She's amazing. He's amazing. I'm ecstatic. It's what I was put on this planet for good. You always wanted to be a dad. I'm a North Carolina boy. Hollywood just ripped me out of my home, but I've always been a North Carolina Yeah. I love it. It's like it's the best part of me. It's my motivation, it's my that's my inspiration. It's it's it's my purpose and UH has made me a better

man in every respect since I've had children. On a mug give it up her Father's Day, I like that, did you did you grow up? You grew up in North Carolina or were you just in the South? And rays first time I ever lived outside the state was season two and once Driel so I even went to school there. I went to NC State, I was born. Yeah, I'm Southern through and through. I still remember the first time I had a line on one Driel. I remember

hearing myself and I remember the line first time. I was like, Oh, come on, Nathan, I'm just trying to win. I'm trying to win. Perfect I talk. Oh I was way too southern. No, it was perfect. I mean, look, there's so many different Southern dialects, and there's such a specific North Carolina dialect. The wind we cancer like, there are certain words that we had to say all the time that are just like, incredibly was not in North Carolina. But tim one had to had to move a little bit.

I loved it. We were just talking about how wonderful and charming it was to watch the scene in this episode where we're all at Karen's planning the fundraiser and to see you know, the popular high school kids, you know, Tim and Peyton and Brooke with all the River Court kids and now those but Tim's Hill, Tim's hit, He's he's he's a varsity athlete. Like that's the set up

of the beginning of the show. Anyway, even if they gave you a lot of that like sidekick, slapstick comedy, and I think they just gave you so much of it because you were so good at it, Like you took any person could do it, took anything on a page that was a suggestion of something funny, and you made it hilarious, and so they just kept giving you that. Yeah,

that's very kind. They should have paid you better, bro. Yeah, it was so nice to see all those Carolina boys, like sitting around a table kind of shooting the felt really good, and the three of us were kind of reflecting on how we wish we'd gotten to have so much more of that. Said that all the time, like I don't I don't know if you guys, but we got together. I hung out way more with the ball players on the team. In a way, Um, I grew up, you know, I want to stay. Championship in North Carolina

was in the high school. I'm the I'm the only white kid to ever play at my high school ever. Still, really, what was your high school? Dudley High School. My high school team, we were the number one ranked public school in the nation, were the number twelve in the country. My senior year, um Brendan Haywood who played for with Lebron and played he played in the NBA. He was my high school center. Um. We had three straight State Player of the Years on the team, so a sophomore, junior, senior, like,

we had a ridiculous high school. We lost Oak Hill and then we lost in dope double over time to like a state school who was runner up the year before. So we lost two games all year. And I missed the Oak Hill game because I had a play. It wasn't I was doing. Uh never saw another Butterfly, which was a story about concentration camps. Oh my god boy and a girl that wrote letters to each other across the wall and it was like competition theater. So we

had like the state play. So I had to go because I was Hanza as the lead in the play. So I had to miss the game to go do the play a playoff. Yeah, but so North Carolina there was state theater. I went to a Weaver which in nor in Greensboro, there was a school that if your school didn't offer a program, you could do it at this. So it was all the schools in the county and

it was the county theaters. It was two periods diffen sixth period and it was like the best actors from the area and it was like really cool to get into. They won the state play every other year because they wouldn't let you win it back to back years. It was just a really cool I've been doing theater since I was in six years old, doing children's theater, Like I was always love theater and I always would do that, Like I would find when I was a kid. There's

videos of like I would. We did Winnie the Pooh and I gave my character a really strong Southern accent even though it wasn't in the script, Like it was always like trying to make the audience laugh. Um. But I just never saw it as a career and then I was Yeah, I went to school for architecture. That's what my degree was in. I had an architectural job. Yeah, I'm I was an architect. I worked at a firm

for two years before um Once Your Hill. I quit my job two weeks before college because my theater professor was like, you should go try this and I was like, wait, you you can make it from North Carolina to act, and so I quit my job. First job in Wilmington's was delivering pizzas. That's why I was a pizza boy. In season five, they were they were trying to I think we just lost. She'll come back, She'll be back anyway.

They did that on purpose to kind of like it was like a little poke but hap okay, so you okay, wait a second, So you've got a job as a pizza delivery in real life, and then how do you end up on One Tree Hill? From that? I did Dawson's Creek before I was actually cast in the season finale of series finale of Dawson's and the pilot of Onetreal at the same time. What I didn't get to

do Dawson's. You are blowing my mind right now because the fact that there's a whole chunk of your life I'm realizing none of us knew because you came in with the basketball team. We all literally thought you auditioned playing basketball out of college, Like you feel like a CIA agent to me right now, you had a whole other life we didn't even know about. Knew the finn Canons. I've been there about six months. I knew the thing Canons. I was actually out of town and I drove back because, um,

you guys knew where. I'm not going to mention, but my girlfriend's mother, uh passed away in between me auditioning and me getting the part. So I was in Texas. I drove back from Texas because her mother was in the hospital. Um, I got to I actually sent in to the finn Cannons a video of me playing basketb ball, just because you're doing a basketball show. You only know me as an actor. Here's me playing ball. I was just I sent a letter to Craig ping Cannon. I

was like, there's a loud. I didn't know how it worked. I was like, I'm just gonna hustle and hey, I got in on Friday. UM audition on Friday. I knew they had open trials for basketball, so I was like, hey, can I come in there? Like it's just for extras. I was like I'll come anyway because I knew, and like I came, like, yeah, there's two hundred people there. We did three on three three on two drills, which we're doing like a we've drill. I go down the

first time down, I like fake this way. I wrapped the ball around behind my back. The guy's lay. All the guys like I don't I know some of the guys because I play ball, but like they all go up. I'm backing down the court on defense and I'm pointing up at Mark like I literally pointed. So then the continuation of the story they had they had somebody else's picture on the wall for Tim. He's a friend of mine. Actually I knew the guy was, so they already had

somebody else they had selected. And then Mark told me I got the part, and the full, true, true story is My phone rang a minute later and her mother had just passed away. Oh God, God, you Hillary, but you know who it was. Yeah. I drew back from Texas to be with her, and I stayed in Wilmington's because I wanted the part. And it was always painful because she wanted me with her and I couldn't see her. And I got the part, but it was literally hand

in hand. So it's when I was so protective over her the whole time because um, I told her mother I would look over her and watch over and um she's doing it now she has children, she's yeah. But it was crazy that we're all growing up with kids now, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not growing up? Who are you talking about? I've got pictures. I've got pictures that I took on the pilot on like a film camera where I still had to like go take

it over the costco and get the film developed. And you two were together in those pictures and like Chad's a baby and one I'm a picture of Antonine like chewing with his mouth open like a babys those days so fun. Yeah, babies. I have a I literally have a photo album. That's how old it was, literally yea clipped through. Really Yeah you post pictures? Will you postmen? Yeah? There's yeah, I can post wait wait wait, but Brett, I mean yes, I want to see whatever you have

in that photo album. But I also want to know do you think the finn Cannons have video of that basketball day? Because we need it like that auditions, because that's where we met Um Jabbar. Yeah, yeah, all those because we we used to all. When you play ball, and that's just like part of your passion. You go to a new city and you're like, where are the

pickup courts? We actually all played pickup before, Like I used to go to MP Park, which is where Michael Jordan grew up playing, and like it was all hood people. One of my dudes, I brought some white dudes there. They didn't know how it worked. They said too much, and he got his tooth knocked out and like meeting out of his mouth because he said the long thing.

Kind of good. Maybe not, but like we all bawled together and like these rough neighborhoods and then we end up on a TV show together, so we're like, oh, so wait, who'd you know from before? Who were you hanging out back before I bowed with Garion, before I bawled with Jabbar, before um Daniel came down from uh, I think Carolina somewhere, so I hadn't played with him. Um,

I think I've probably played with Vaughan before. V and Vaughan was like really a baller in high school, like like legit um, but like, yeah, we all just kind of some of us knew each other, some of us didn't. Um, but yeah, there has to be video of that day of where like we met the Ravens for the first time. Oh,

we're going to get it, get it. I love all our team photos, like I always get happy when fans tack us and are like team photos with the whole Childing squad, with the whole basketball team, because the line between fact and fiction has gotten just thinner and thinner and thinner as we've gotten older. There was a show behind the show at all time. What do you remember about getting to Wilmington's and getting to know this whole crew, all the people that you didn't know before, and the

beauty of what I worked with the crew before. Once youre hill right, summer catch, I did Dawson's and I did a bunch of other things on the lot. Like I was like I was a like I just didn't know the world. I was just like, I'm gonna break my way in. So I started as a p A yeah, and I started as an extra. Then I met my agent as an extra. Then I started auditioning, and then I booked everything. So like in Wilmington's, I booked like

seven straight jobs. So that's what wasn't down. And the cannons were like, you should come back, and I was kind of like, there, I would, they would just if I went in the room. I felt like I was going to walk out of the room with the job. A dream feeling for an actor. I didn't know l A.

I didn't know. I didn't know because hey, by the way, like neither did I though, And I think maybe that's why we became friends, Brett, because I was incredibly intimidated by l A. And you were also like, I don't know what I'm doing out there, Like it was scary because we came from the East Coast and when you're a young actor, all that pressure to like go to l A and make it and do pilot season and like do all those kinds of rituals that were told

are the things that you're supposed to do. That didn't work for me, you know, and it and it was weird for me because I didn't know l A enough to be like the times where I'm like, wait, I mean the hierarchy. I was always someone like people told me I'd never make the basketball team at my school, right, People told me I'd never get into architecture school. People have told me my whole life what I couldn't do,

and I love the ability to prove them wrong. So in this world, to my detriment, at times, in this world, I there was a hierarchy. I didn't get it. I was like, Oh, I can work my way to where I want to be. You guys are all flying to TRL. I'm like, why am I still here in our house? Like that looks fun? And I together? Right? Yeah? The first week, two weeks, Chad, James and I lived together. Um, the rest of the season, James and I lived together. Remember all that wait talk about the house that you

guys lived in. I came to Garden. Oh my god, you had that creepy ass haunted house and Hillary, I will never forget you. And I went over there with like bags of stuff from the bath and beyond because we were like, we cannot let them live like this. That was my fault. That was because they were gone and I'm like a North Carolina boy. Were rinsed like four hundred dollars a month, and I'm like, I'm making it. I'm a pizza boy, and They're like, get us a house,

and I'm like, uh, looks cool. Your cell was strong. Breath's like, we've got a place on the beach, on the water, the water from between the openings in the crypt. You can guys, it was a brick house at the beach. It was like they had like gargoyles and all of you know that house forwarding gargoyles, gargoyles and those like scary metal awnings from like the nineteen thirties that are spiky. I had never looked at houses in my life. It's amazing.

I was a resident advisor for three years in college. Yeah, I never lived off campus. Get it, Like, so I didn't know. And then they and then I didn't even see the house because I was in Greensboro. I come back and I'm like, oh, I felt the same way. I was just trying. We didn't have like zillo or the Internet. I was just telling the girls that there was a summer in college where my best friend and I, who roomed together at USC, We're like, well, we got

to get an apartment. We're obviously not moving home, but we couldn't afford an apartment, so we got a studio and we just put two beds in, just like Brooke and Haley did. In like the end of season two. We just were like, yeah, we can all sleep in this room. It'll be fine, we can eat here. Who cares, we're not going home. I get it, dude, It's it's

a struggle when you're a kid young. And I was like, Hillary, you've said one time you were like, oh, you were immature, and I'm like, I thought about that, and I actually I will immature. There's just a difference between an immature forty four year old and an immature year old. I was too young to be picking houses. I did my best. I failed. We moved on. Dude, you picked a weird house. I picked an apartment that I loved, except I didn't

consider the fact that it was over a bar. When I went to look at it at like two PM and my first night in my first department in Wilmington's, I was like, I've made a grave mistake. I've lived above a bar. And I was like, this is the best choice. Coming from New York. Hillary is like this is like mid day, Like yeah, quiet in New York. I invested in good ear plugs and then I was okay, obviously okay enough that I gave myself amnesia because the last two years I was there, I lived over a

bar again. I love you. I need especially coming like you know, he'll coming from East Coast and from New York. When when I moved to California, first thing I saw it out was noise at night. It drove me crazy that I it was. I had moved to an apartment. A friend of mine had a room open up in Beverly Hills, and I moved into this place on Olympics. So quiet, it was so deadly quiet. It was I could never sleep. I could. I needed the noise. So

I love that. I still sleep wearing your plugs like I like New York could train me on that when you got five am call times like now, I can't sleep without him. I sleep your plugs and a pillow over my face just like a smile, breathing hello for being over my head. How do you how do you set an alarm if you're wearing your plugs? Kids, the alarms loud enough to make me up and uh, but yeah, I couldn't the trash trucks at four am in New York and couldn't sleep, couldn't sleep. But you were in

New York for years I did two years on a soap. Yeah, that's right, and that was a really big deal, Brett. It was. It's the it's the proudest thing. Well as an actor, it's the proudest thing in my career. I think I've done sense that I'm more proud of at this point. But it's hard work. Yeah, But how often in your career as an actor do you get to change the real world and have an effect on the real world. We were the first gay love story in the history of daytime television. We were the first game

love scene in the history of television periods. Was it one life for all my children? One life to live? One life? What years were you on two thousand and eight to two thousand ten? So we started the storyline gay marriage was not legal in the United States. When we ended it, it was legal in five states, which is a big part of that right now. Yeah, waiving that flag of like you know, I worked with Chris Scot Scott Evans, Chris Evans brother, Yeah, and there was

you know, it was personal to a lot. It was a very difficult time for me as a as a man, and it was an incredibly important part of my story of becoming who I am now and like, um, you know, being from North Carolina at a time where that was a hot topic and um being able to um one as an actor. You know, it's you know, really instantaneously when you kissed someone of the same sex, whether or

not you're a homosexual or heterosexual. You know, it taught me a lot as a man of like you know, the just that topic at that time, you know, being a thirty year old in New York. Um. And but it also um it, it just was it was a lot of a lot the shoulder at that time of like who I was when I started the role versus who I was when I ended it, of like who am I and what do I stand for? And you know, equality was so part so important to me of why I took the role, which I wasn't cast in that role.

They cast something else and three months later they're like, this is your part, And I had to like think about that. But it was, Yeah, I look back and during the time and after it like it was just one of the things I'm most proud of in my entire life. Do you feel like that experience taught you how to be an advocate? Like how to put yourself in other people's shoes. Um, yes, a lot. Yes, I mean I, like I said, I was a resonant advisor

for three years. I went through a lot of like training. Um. You know, I went through a lot of experiences during that time with with you know, how to be of how to be someone that UM listens and processes. And you know, we have two years in one mouth for a reason, right, we'll put on this planet to listen

more than we speak. It's hard hard for me to say because UM, but UM, yeah, so so if I would say, I mean, you don't know what someone else is going through until you walk in their shoes, right, And I spent two years you know, there were times where so many people questioned my actual um placement in this world, in the real world, because of a part

I was playing. Right. I went through some element of that with my family, with people I grew up with with you know, being a voice that's supposed to represent that community in some small way. So I absolutely learned how to be an ally and an advocate and like, UM, empathize so much with UM that but also to me, the fact that it was an issue at all was appalling. You know, that's because I said this when I took the role. My job as an actor is just to tell the truth. And the truth of this is these

two human beings love each other. What else matters, like why do we fight so hard to get in the way of love? We should create pathways and roadways and causeways to create more love in the universe and in our world. So that's what I knew from day one. Um, I learned more of what the struggle was through that process. Well, you're talking about is why we get into storytelling as actors in the first place. Is two be able to

tell stories that effect change. But also you do you learn how to walk in other people's shoes by just being efficient at your job and doing the research and talking with people who are similar to your character and you know, finding your way. I don't. I don't know anyone who's a good actor that doesn't know how to really empathize. I mean that truly is our job. Now, maybe that's why so many of us are messy because

we empathize. You know, our whole job is to be able to feel all the feelings and so how do you turn it off when you go home? And eleven years later, I have tears coming up from thee. I were so proud of you, honestly, because you know, we have had to reckon with some things on this show as we've watched it back together of like, uh, that didn't age well, you know, And this whole season two is the a a storyline where Daniel Alonso is coming out on our show, and our show did some like

dorky stuff. But that's that's one storyline that I think was handled really well. I wish she would have stuck around um, but you're right. The conversation in you know, two thousand eight was hundred different than the conversations that we're having now, and you contributed to making that easier for people. That's a big deal. How many moms watch One Life to Live that all of a sudden are like, Oh, I'm gonna go talk to my son about his attractions

or the person he loves and it's okay. That's when really understood the gravitas of it was the fan mail. Really, That's where, Yeah, there were dozens and dozens of those type you know, I wish Cameo existed. Then fan mail is amazing, you guys. I just went through my storage unit and I found bins of fan mail that I still didn't answer because I'm so you know a d D that I just didn't know. It was just like

piled up in a thing. But I did go through some of them, and it is it's so cool to see the things that people were affected by and what they're going through. I mean, and we still see it

all the time. The fans will come out to the conventions, and he did so much in that regard, like you are heroes and best friends and confidants and um and in some ways role models, which sometimes I'm sure you are like, uh, maybe this isn't the show that you'd want to be today, but like that that you did so much for young women and now older women, and like I applauding older women who like the one beautiful thing about this show is like we now connect with

mothers and their daughters who both weird. It's so cool. I know. It makes blose my mind now that I see when I again we do the conventions and we see the people that come out. Have you got to do any conventions you have? I've seen It's vention. I went to there's a video of like Brett and I like totally wasted behind the j Yes, you're one of the last people I saw before. Yeah, those things are

those things are wild. Like it started as a show about basketball, but it legitimately became a show about I believe you ladies. You know, you really carried and I think at that time, like I look back on it and I'm like, it was so important. It would not have the cold. I just saw Ben Mackenzie at Bitcoin Miami, like we talked first time, Like I've never met him before. We just did a little whatever you want I talked to and you were like, whatever your arrival, that's us.

That what we said. But like, I believe the reason this show carried was because of the storylines, the work that you ladies did, because you know, because it became it became about more. It was a basketball show that how long can that run? And it became about so much more. And I think you guys really carried that torch and just did a great job. And I think you you mean so much to people. So when I talk about one and I feel there and that's what

has your wife seen? One Tree Hill? Never what you're so funny, I don't see it. I'm like, I'm a one note character. It is not at all you're wrong. There was there was no depth, there was no like, I guess you're wrong. You haven't, Brett. You need to watch I think more casting directors needed to watch that damn show. I know I'm being okay, I'm being obstinate, and I'm saying you're wrong. But here's why. Let me explain exactly why you're wrong. I've never been one to

shy away from an argument telling someone where they're wrong. God, sorry, um, okay, here's why I think you're wrong. Because there are so many and we've said this multiple times. Whenever you're in a scene, there are so many people who could show up and see those lines on the page and do them one note, one dimensional, with no depth or anything. The fact is that you are interesting to watch because

you always are thinking. Regardless of whether Tim is thinking about dumb things or weird things or nothing, you are thinking through Tim, and it's interesting to watch anyone who is thinking. There's a lot of actors who come up and they show up and they all they're thinking is say this line. My brain is totally empty. And then I'm gonna walk over here and I do the thing,

and you didn't. You didn't. You always had something going on internally, and we saw it as an audience member, and that's why we all fell in love with you, and that's why the audience fell in love with you, and that's why you kept coming back to the show. There is no world in which you were a one note actor. And to add to Joy's point, it's it's an amazing thing for us having started this show, to go back and rewatch our TV show and we see

things we didn't see that. You know, we would catch an episode here and there, but mostly we were working. And it is so clear from this sort of bird's eye view vantage point of being adults, all of us have gone and worked on other things. We've all produced other things. We know what it is. We're not as clueless and unaware, you know, as we were when we were just kind of bopping around doing what we were told.

Bopping around is the perfect way to describe it. We were just bottling around like we didn't know anything, you know, and we were like little ducklings. And now we're now, we're grown, and you are so much fun to watch. And nobody knew back then what we know now. But you're you know, we were just a group of friends

doing dumb ship. Your talent going back and watching it as grown ups is like so next level, and it's crazy to hear things that we all realized we didn't know because we just thought we all kind of got pucked out of college, Like duh. Of course your perspective was so good. You had other things in your tool kit that nobody else did. He's a real basketball pro. Episode one, like the pilot, like it said Tim Smith six f chisel. I'm like, that's not me? Is that

really what the description was? I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be a big guy, not me. That's true, you, Yeah, but I just looked at each scene like I'm a supporting actor the scenes not about me. So what does the scene need? Yeah? But what kind of energy does this moment need? You're timing with impeccable always, that's true. I don't I remember it so differently, so it it means it so, But tell us though, because you added

a layer of vulnerability to everything. You know, it's like Tim talks a big game, but you also see the like little kid in him when we watched the show back, and I know just from like talking to you there and and from our experience, there was a layer of vulnerability to being a young actor on a hit TV show where there's no footing, where you're constantly being told like you're lucky to have a job. You know, like how much of that real life vulnerability bled into what

you were doing? I was, you know, there's a thin line between confidence and cockyness, very thin line. I played on that line my whole life, like I just tight rope that line. So in some ways that I was told that so much, you know, like I that was beaten to my head thirty three episodes, you know, season two, I was flying myself back down to women. You know, season two, Lee and I were roommates in l A. They would put him in a car and take him to the airport. I would have to get myself to

the airport. I would have to fly myself. I would have to find a place to stay. They would not put me up for like eight episodes. I've done twenty episodes at this point, you know. So there was always this little like underlying thing of like, you know, you're lucky that we gave you this job. Never you earned this job, You're lucky you got this part never you deserve this, you know. But I grew up in a household. Um.

I love my family, I'll say that. But I grew up in the household where um, verbal affirmation was not a you know. UM. I was always trying to prove myself through like sports and through school and like get good grades and pay my way through college. And it was never necessarily receiving the words that I wanted to hear.

I was kind of groomed for this, and I was like cold and let me go get I'm the youngest, but my my dad had a stroke when I was fourteen, in front of me playing basketball, so we I grew up like my my brother and sister were gone. So I'm a little bit of a younger child, a little bit of an only child. I went through things where it was like I just knew, um. I even when I first started on one treel on my wall in front of me before I lived, I had written and

sharpiest said I will not fail. Every morning I woke up because it was like, I know that the only time I will ever fail at anything is when I give up. Otherwise it just hasn't happened in the time frame you expected. It too, but the only failure is actually giving up. So I was like, great, it just was fuel for me. Keep telling me I don't deserve this, Keep telling me I shouldn't move to l A, keep telling me I won't get another job, keep telling me

whatever you want to tell me. God they loved that, didn't they. Well you ever get another job? Yeah? Yeah, And it's like great, I'm now on another job and I'm not available, so you can wait for my neck. That's a fun feeling. I'm unavailable. I remember when I booked a movie Lee Wood. I came back and was like, yeah, Hillary was telling congrats for booking a movie, like like you guys that were like knew I booked something. So I was like, you know, I just um, it was motivation.

It was really dumb, and I was, you know, I was just too fragile to show it. And I masked everything with comedy, so like it was who I wasn't real life too. Um, That's why I didn't really become a good actor until One Life to Live. That's when I I don't know, but but but you're wrong, because I think your ability to do dramatic work, yeah, really really shows itself in your comedy, you know, and so it's weird to me that you, you know, went from doing all the heavy lifting with the comedy on our

show to doing something so serious right afterwards. Um, were you funny on One Life to Live? Did you get to be funny? That was? I mean the it's the last job I ever did. And you'll know why when I say this. I got pre nominated for an Emmy my first season and I'm walking in with Miami reel and the EP calls me in and he says, tomorrow's your last day in the job. What I got fut because we were doing a gay love story. We were in Bible Belt Soap Operas Network Plus. When I started

that there were five soaps in New York. When I finished, we were the last one. There was already already the exodus. Yea, those shows were they were out. Everything's in l A. It was too expensive to be in New York. It was just hot, but it was. It was just a randomness of I'm turning in my Emmy reel and I don't have a job, so I I kind of got rid of all my reps and I was like, I need a break, and we started the company and I have an act UM well. I co founded the largest

crowdfunding platform in the world for live streaming. We've raised UM hundreds of millions of dollars for charity since two thousand fourteen. We have over three thousand charities on the platform. UM. So that's what I stream. Is it concerts? Is it like Ted talk kind of stuff? Like what is it? What do you stream? I produced game for Paul with the cast of Furious seven to raise money for Paul Walker's charity, and Paul passed away. I worked with Cody and Ben and Direse and Michelle and so we did

that for four years. UM tilt if I is basically we democratized that Jerry Lewis telethon model. So I was you guys probably remember playing lots of video games back in the day. I went to architecture school, so we designed what's now known as an E sports arena. But we designed it in two thousand and eight. UM did my first event in two thousand eleven. Had Zac Efron and Chris Evans and Michael Straight and and and uh and Snoop and we had Rampage Jackson versus the MS

in UFC fighting in front of eight hundred people. We're any News and Access Hollywood, and I would walk into see A and William Morris and they're like, nobody's ever gonna watch people play video games literally quote that's what they told me. So nobody. Twitch didn't exist, None of the gaming exists. I just used to throw these big super Bowl events and we would we would play like side Room, and more people would come watches play Madden.

Then we're watching the super Bowl. So I had like this a pivot and it's like the architecture side of like see the problem before and move. Then Twitch launched, so we pivoted. We stopped doing events, we launched, we built the platform, we launched the platform. It's now what every Twitch streamer YouTube streamer uses to raise money for charity. And then I launched humble House in two thousand nineteen, which was saying, look there's a shift, Twitches no longer

about gaming. They need more premium content. Um, we're gonna be a premium content provider, but for digital. And then the pandemic hit. So during the pandemic, I produced and directed all the live script reads for the Democratic Party. Um, we did dais and confused with Matthew McConaughey. We did Rocky Horror, which Joey you would have loved. We had seventeen different musical performances from Pearl Jam. We had The Grateful Dead, we had David Arquette, they all did the

music video. We had Tim Curry. We raised over a million dollars for Wisconsin. We did final Tap for Pennsylvania. Know, we did the Goonies with the original cast and during the inauguration, Jake telling me, he was like, Hey, I'm doing this thing. It's real, Hillary, Like it's real, my company's real. And I know they talked about bat us On during the inauguration and they said it was the

most impressive use of Hollywood they've ever seen. And uh, now we've launched Soulis so like it's now we're into Web three and all about giving talent. Hold On, hold on, I'm a grandma. You have to go back and n f t s Web three. So basically, Hillary, what I'm going to tell you the future is and what we're doing giving talent the ability to work with their communities to green light their own content. So turning people like ourselves from employees to owners of their own I p God,

that's the dream, right, you did it? Well, we're doing it. So we just announced our first film slate. Variety put out our film slate. Um, we're really built an ecosystem. It's a token driven ecosystem with a marketplace that allows communities to engage in content like like never, I'm so proud of you man, this is Does that mean are you just going to fund all the ship that Joyce, Sophie and I want to do? Oh, you're gonna fund

it yourself? Okay, yeah, okay, Like it's this. It's this going back to where I started of like getting fired to my emi real in my hand, like I twitch, streamers, YouTubers, they have all this power over there their career. Yeah, and in our careers you're told when your career ends. Yeah. All goes back to that moment for you when somebody told you this is over and that you know again, it goes back to that part of you that's always like tell me tell me one more time, tell me

one more time. It's not gonna work. I'll make it work, yeah for real. So like that's that's what you know. I've been doing this for a decade now, working with talent to to engage their communities and ways that accomplishes their goals, which was raising money for charity. We built schools in Senegal with Travis van Winkl and Andy Grammer, or we raise money for reach Out Worldwide, Paul's charity, or you know, done a ton of things for charity.

And now it's about because of web three and because of what we're launching, and it's not Kickstarter, it's like securitized, it's fully UM regulculated, so like communities can actually participate in the success. Amazing we can. Oh man, I got some stuff to talk to you about. This is exciting. Yeah, that's UM. So is what is the next big thing that we can direct people to? What's going on this summer that we can direct people to. I mean we're

still building, so like I wouldn't necessarily direct anything. We're all about UM long form. So we're in the middle of like raising money and equity and token sent all that is there is there a website though, or a social platform that you would suggest people go to learn more and follow along? L S O l I S dot io UM. We named our company Solis because the sun doesn't discriminate who it shines this light upon and

that's what the company is based on. It's you know, we can all everything grows from sunlight, So it's all about that. Um. So, Solis dot io is our website. We actually have tons of them. We have Soli slobs Labs dot io, have Soli Studios dot com. I'm welcome. So we have a social um Solis underscore. I oh on Twitter, But we just hired a really big PR firms, so it's gonna start getting a lot more presence and visibility out of You're so, where's Tim today? Where's Okay?

So we know where Brett Clewell is today? God from like being a basketball god in high school and theater genies? Yeah, what's most likely to have his own dominoes at this point? Like not, what does Tim do? Like I swear to god, I was so I wanted him to have more depth and like I as the character who played Tim, Like where is Tim? Didn't Tim and Bevin get married and have a kid? Yeah, so Tim's playing child support Like that's the best we can expect. He would have paid it.

But they're definitely you couldn't be married to Tim for longer than twenty years. No, But I'm still friends with the tims of my high school, and I cherished those boys. I think those boys grow up sometimes to be nice guys. They do. I mean I was, Yeah, they do. I didn't say he was. I mean he had a good heart. He never did anything, you know, and Sally wrong. Um, he was a puppy dog. He was a sweet guy. So he's still doing the right thing. Um, he's probably

just struggling to make ends meet, to be honest. Well, it's been a wheel, shall we Let's see you know about this. We spin a wheel bread for most likely to like in the high school relatives on the show. Will you spend the wheel with us? Yes, I'll spend the wheel with you. Let's do it. So you gotta help us pick somebody who this is in real life? And on the show we have two. We have two answers. Okay,

somebody read it? Okay. Most likely to have a cooking show? Okay, so which character on the show is going to have a cooking show? I mean that Bevan feels like if I was just gonna say it, she'd be like Giada, just stirring bulls in her bosom. Yeah, I love it. With their strong arms that are good hands, right, at least of Goldstein. I think could have also million millions. I mean Karen owns that would have been my choice. That's a good point. But Karen would have turned into like, yeah,

she would have been like a guru. She'd have like books and like she had brands and target Like Karen would have blown up in that world. I like that. Wait, does anybody have a cooking show in real life? From our show? I feel like it's hard to think it's you. Hillary. I think you should have a kind of you, but I don't have a cookie. But you published a book with recipes in it, but you have to put it on a network where you can cuss. Yeah, well that's

been the problem you guys. You know, we shopped a Mischief Farm show and everyone wanted me to really like sanitize it and be all like squeaky clean, and I was like, sorry, not happening. You take us, so you leave us? Yeah, take us to leave us? Um, all right, maybe one a kid, George, do you want a cooking show? No, she doesn't know. She's just like you're just like Princess Pizza, right yeah. Um, so, Tim, you'd be a big hit in the Morgan House because this one only eats pizza.

Tim tonight he bring him again like in season five. No, I'm saying, like Tim character Tim coming through the door and the door locking behind him was delicious. I loved that episode. Will you you have to you have to come back for that one? I will absolutely That was the one episode that I actually, like, really enjoyed. That was fun. That was fun. It was fun to come back and be like, Hey, guys, was that taking over the world? I miss you so much? When are we

going to see you again? When are you coming eat? I would love to see you. Are you in l A right now? Now? We're going litterally going to can for the first time. Congress awesome, Texas and New York. I'm traveling a lot right now. We're just in Miami, but but I would love to see you. Hey, do you want to say a big funk you to all the people that told you you put? I want to thank you because I wouldn't North Carolina boy. Yeah, I'll

say you when we're off. Okay, thank you so much for coming to hang out with It's so nice to see you you guys. That was actually that was that was a nice conversation. Glad that we got to catch up. Me too. I totally feel what he was saying about being told that you're not enough and then to come and just like kick all the ass feels so good, so good. Well, we're going to explore it next week, Season two, episode twenty two, The Tide that Came and Never Went Back. I think there's lots of as kicking

that Dan is probably preparing to attempt to do. And and how are Brooke and Lucas going to be rooming? Yeah, that's gonna be real interesting. Oh my, just friends and nothing more, nothing more. Well, come back and see us next week, guys, next week. By hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We all about that

high school drama. Girl Drama, Girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a rod at our comic girl cheering for the right drama Queens up girl fashion. But you're tough girl. You could sit with us. Girl Drama Queens Drama, Queen's Drama Queen's drama Drahn mc queen's drama Queens