First of all, you don't know me.
We all about that high school drama, Girl Drama, Girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride, and our comic girl shared for the right teams Drama Queens off.
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By the way, I've started taking notes joy On on my phone as well, because I find out I can watch episodes like, well, I'm putting my son down, and I gotta say, I don't think I'm gonna go back to pen and paper.
Yeah, it's kind of nice just to be able to have it all right now. I use my I like my iPad and my uh pence Apple pencil because I can just do I have the same template every time.
Huh. So you're just the futuristic version of a pen and paper, I guess, or quill and ink if you will. Quill and ink.
Yeah, but having notes all written out on your phone, can you type? Like is that easy to do while you're doing other things? You feel like you can?
No, I just you have to pause the episode for sure.
Oh, okay, it makes sense, you know.
It's just it's nice because I can kind of two birds one stone it, you know.
Yeah, well, hi, everybody, welcome to the middle of our conversation. We're just talking about technology fixing my computer, and we're talking about taking notes on this weird episode. Rob, what's the episode? Do you want to tell us?
I'd love to? Season seven, episode nineteen, Every Picture Tells a Story. Air date was April twenty six, twoenty ten. It's the night of Quinn's big gallery opening and an uninvited guest Ambush is Clay Oh. Nathan spends the day with Jamie while Haley struggles with the life after her mother's passing. Brooke and Julian each receive a shocking surprise. Meanwhile, Skills learns the truth about Lauren and Mouth and Grubs
presents Miranda with a life changing question. Directed by our own Chad Grave written by William H. Brown, Well, well, you came in with an interesting energy towards this episode, so why don't you start say more about that sort of vibe you gave.
I thought the writing was exceptionally lazy, and we're getting to this point and this is it's hard to say that because a lot of our writers we all love and had great experiences with and like every other day job, there get to you enter into seasons I think, where you're focus on something else, or people have things going on in their personal life, and there's there's so many things going on. So I don't know what all the factors were that contributed this. Because Bill Brown's actually a
pretty good writer. I think he's done some really great stuff for our show. So I don't know what happened. I don't know if the if, the room just it's like we there were so many things that didn't make sense. There was It felt to me like the conversations were very talking heads. Like there was low energy everywhere in this episode, and I was confused. But maybe I'm being grouchy.
I'm also like my energy's down a little. Paul Teele, who played Josh, passed away recently a couple of days ago, actually so and I worked pretty closely with him on this show, but mostly on a play that I did with him when we did The Notebook in two thousand and six. So it was hard to see him and watch just watch him. He was so great, So I don't know. Maybe that's coloring my perspective of the episode.
I just feel a little I feel a little down, So I was probably projecting that on the rest of everything.
I don't know fair, And also I don't I let me validate what you're saying. It was a confusing episode because a lot of my notes are filled with questions as the comments. But I agree with you. I think I think Paul's great because you're right, the energy is kind of low in this episode and he's just sort of up to something. Yeah, and he was just great in everything he did, and so yeah, just what a heartbreaking loss. So young, such a talented, sweet guy.
He really was so talented and so like what's really funny about watching him in this role is that, you know, when we did the Notebook, I was we worked very he was Noah in my version of the Notebook, so he was he worked very closely with me for I think we rehearsed for like three or four months before we put that workshop up, So it was I mean, it was we took our time. So he and I worked very closely together every day for a long time.
And when I tell you, he is nothing like that character like Josh, It's so funny to see because he is so shy. I never once saw him throw any kind of a temper tantrum. I never saw him say an unkind word to anybody. He was shy and sweat and just wanted to make space for everybody. But he felt so free on stage, like you put him in
a character and he just totally opened up. And it's so fun to watch actors like that who are so comfortable in their skin and who they are as a human that they don't feel the need to sort of act out that. But there's these all these little pieces of our personality, Like when he gets into a role, he just turned into somebody else. It was amazing.
Yeah, I bet it was so fun for him because you always hear actors like what do they want to play? And it's usually the opposite. Yeah, you know of who they are, so it's like the nicest people love like Brian Krantzt and like relished playing Walter White, you know, and he crushed at it too. So yeah, Paul was a guy.
Just storm into that trailer and slam the door in the throw the wardrobe out at Sophia's Like, whoa, that is so not you.
It was great. He was great, But I agree with you the episode there was just there was a lot of odd things about it. And it's one of the things I feel like, it's almost as if they were short on time and they went like, let's just add twenty seconds to a handful of scenes, because I did
notice there is this weird theme. I don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but there's this odd, odd theme that happens probably three or four times in this episode, where something unexpected and unfortunate to say the least, happens to a character and the care and attention is put on the wrong people, Like I think it starts with Miranda, where Grubbs walks in and Miranda's like devastated. She's like,
I'm being deported. Yeah, and his first thought, like his first thing is kind of snarky, like I thought you were going to do the record with me, And then she's like I'm I'm going to be deported, and rather than reading the room and being like, oh my gosh, your life is being up ended, he goes, yeah, what
does that mean for us? Right? And then like Jana, excuse me, alex is involved in a sex tape which she did not consent to, and the initial emphasis is put on she apologizes to because Julian comes in hot at her.
Oh yeah, than like.
Asking, you know, even when she said that, he doesn't kind of pull it back and go, Okay, that's awful. And then when she comes to apologize, she's she's apologizing on Bee. When she goes to Josh about it, she's like, you jeopardize the film and these people. I'm like, yeah, also, how about you are the biggest victim here?
Yes, yeah, there was no like, hey are you okay? Oh my god, Like that's horrendous what just happened to you? That should be the first priority out of all of this, everybody checking to see if Alex is okay.
Yes, and it's it's just so, it's this odd thing and it happens again. I forget who it is, but yeah, where it's this thing where it's like the characters eventually get to the right place in terms of like focusing on who the this thing happened to, but they all like they all start with making like being selfish and not focusing on the person it was actually wrong to the victim in the case, and so.
Yeah, which would have worked if there had been somebody who was pointing it out, so that at the least we learned the lesson of like, here's what it looks like when you don't empathize and you only worry about yourself in scenarios, And here's what it looks like when you care about someone else. Yes, but nobody was doing that.
No, it was like Grubs was about himself, Julian was about himself, and then Alex felt bad, so she let it be about Julian, even though she's the biggest victim of Like what do we know, be upset for yourself? You know, Grubs got there and Julian got there. But yeah, it started off me going like really.
So that Yeah, so that's one thing that didn't make sense. We talked last week about the Clay and Sarah slash Katie of it all and how we're doing Superman now, like she puts on the glasses and now suddenly nobody knows who she is. I mean, the fact that Quinn has been dating Clay for long enough that they're saying I love you, and she's never seen a photograph of Sarah, They've never had a late night conversation of tell me everything about her? Show me pictures of her, Show me
pictures of you, guys. I want to see your wedding photos. I want to know who you were together. Hello. What is their relationship if they haven't had moments like this?
Yes? And especially do you remember that scene on the beach after she confesses to her when it's raining outside, and after he shoes her away and then he gets in his car and he finally says, I had a wife.
Her name was Sarah. She died. There's a scene after that where Clay and Quinn are sitting on the beach talking like it's like now the morning time, and it ends with I think maybe Clay says something the effective like well should we go, you know, or start our day or something, and she's like, nah, tell me more about Sarah. It's this really sweet like I'm I have space for all of this and I'm interested moment. Yeah,
so I'm with you. And also she makes a comment I think it was in the previous episode or the one before that, where she says, hey, I noticed that there aren't any pictures of Sarah up. I hope that's not because of me. So I'm with you. It just feels so so weird. That she's never seen a picture of Sarah.
It feels also like okay, as I'm I'm maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. It seems like pretty easy fix if they knew they were going to do this storyline, to have a couple of scenes here and there where Quinn is like, I really, you know, you've never shown me a photo of Sarah. I would love to see what does she look like? And Clay's like, you know what, all the photos are locked away. I put it in storage. I don't. I just it's a little too much for
me to have around. I mean, it's reasonable as a time before everybody had photos all over their cell phone. So I feel like there's a world where we could have possibly believed that, but they just didn't make an effort, so we have no reason to believe it.
Well, and so it's odd. Right. So she comes into the gallery, and you know, first of all, there's there's the hilarious shot of when Clay sees so Quinn walks over and goes, hey, I want to introduce you to the girl I'm going to be sharing you with, which was like, what's happening right now? And then it shows that Clay sees Katie standing there. There's the slow mo as if as if you're not going to see surprise
on Clay's face. There's the slow mode drop of the beer, and then the close up of the bottle exploding on the ground. What as if the audience is like, I'm not sure what's Oh, the bottle broke Clay's surprise. This is big.
It's so disappointing.
But here's the thing, right, Okay, so it's this odd game again. I don't understand why Clay didn't get home from his scouting trip and immediately download to Quinn. You're never gonna believe what just happened to me, yep, because that is that would be the craziest of crazy tea. I don't know how you wouldn't want to spill that with your favorite person. Yes, and okay, whatever he does it,
maybe he's got baggage. Who cares? Then the fact that he plays along in the gallery where he actually lets himself be introduced to her and he reacts as if he doesn't know who she is. He doesn't just go I know who you're Katie, Yeah, we spoke. He does this weird thing. I said this last episode where it's he is behaving as if he has done something that he does not want to come out. He's behaving like a man who has had an affair. So he plays,
he does the dance. It's awkward, and then he doubles down on his shady behavior by like surreptitiously in indifferent scene, walking over to Katie grabbing her by the arm.
A couple of arm grabs in this episode too.
Yes, and then which like why are you doing this?
It's so like nineteen forties, like come here, I'm going to talk to you on the corner. Come here when.
Yes, as if she listened, pal, she's obsessed with you. I'm pretty sure if you just said, hey, can you meet me in the corner, she'd be like, absolutely, I'm obsessed with you.
Don't touch her. There's an intimacy in that kind of touching.
Dude, exactly. And then he pulls over and he's doing like the shout whisper thing, like what are you doing here? This is the behavior of a man whose mistress has shown up to his kid's birthday party where his wife is at yes.
Of one thousand percent.
But then he tells Quinn, so here's what I don't get what like from a writing standpoint, this here's what I would have loved to have seen, is that he had told Quinn about this Katie girl, and when she shows up, Quinn is in on it too, because this isn't a thread that we kept going where Quinn's in the dark. At the scene, Clay grabs her by the arm.
He's like, he goes to Quinn, he goes, hey, I want to show you a picture, and he unloads it, which was also weird that I didn't understandhy Quinn wasn't like, why were you then? Why didn't you say anything?
You know, like yeah? Also, even Katie, I mean, this is the easiest one to write off because she's a little bonkers. But why would she show up to the girlfriend's event and assume that the girlfriend doesn't know what Sarah looks like? Quinn being the girlfriend, like, why would she you know what I mean? Why would she show up and think I'm going to get away with this?
Well, I think her defense would be that she is not a rational person. You are applying rationale to an irrational person exactly. Also, when Clay and Quinn walk into the gallery at the start of the episode, I thought it was funny because it's it almost is as if Clay is presenting it to Quinn, even though it's her gallery show. She was listen, if you're doing a gallery opening. She has been there for hours every single day, going
over every minute detail. Yes, but whatever. It was just so sort of odd that he was like, close your eyes, are you ready, as if she wasn't there an hour beforehand doing all the touch ups. And then he does the count of two. He does the Katie thing. He goes one, two and he turns on the lights. I found myself pissed off, like, Clay, do better, what Katie thing? The whole thing with Katie is on the count of two.
When they're on the bridge, they're me cute, oh with Sarah, Yeah with Sarah, and he's like, oh yeah, I may have said Katie. With Sarah. He's like, yeah, the count of two, and she's like, who does count of two? And he's like us, Oh.
So now he's bringing that into him and then he does it to Quinn.
I'm like, give her her own thing, no leftovers, no leftovers, it's a new restaurant.
Come on, to be fair about that. I have a friend I just had a conversation with who their mom
died and their dad who's also much older. He's in his seventies now, and he he remarried, but he keeps putting the new wife in all the same situations as his wife of like fifty years, by like taking her to the same special places that he used to go to with his wife and taking in like buying things for the new wife that were the same exactly the same thing, like the same watch but in a different color for the that he did for his previous wife. So I wonder if this is just a grieving man thing.
That's like I just I only know how to function one way. But that's also somebody who was married for like fifty years, not and who's old and not knowing how to do something else. I mean, Clay is a young man, like he should he should be doing some different things for Quinn.
Does the new wife does she know?
She doesn't know. No. I mean the kids have been like having to communicate, like dad, please stop, it actually hurts us. You guys have to find new things. And she's like, why is everybody mad at me?
Why did the kids cry when we go to Applebee's hunting?
I know, yeah, so I guess I could write Clay a repass on the one too as an instinct. But nevertheless, it is strange that he's introducing her to the venue.
Well, and also just because she's not aware of it, I feel like if it was, if it was something she was aware of, it makes it a little less weird for me for some reason. But it's almost kind of like he's recycling it and she thinks it might be for her. Whatever, It's not a big moment. It was just a small, a small beef I had. I will say though, going back to this gentleman who remarried, I don't mind that gentleman taking her to the same
restaurants because he's seventy years old. He's had a lot of time to try a lot of restaurants, and he knows what he likes, so good for him. The watch is weird because that's a gift for her that you're not involved in, and you still chose the one that your former partner had. Yeah, that's the one. I'm a kid. I'm like, no, nobody.
No, we need new things, new things, all right.
So Clay is kerfuffled by Katie coming in handles it all wrong. I'm you know what else? I really was bummed about this story Sorry, guys, there are good things
about this episode. I just this storyline bothered me too, because when Clay came on the show, you Rob, you had so much energy, You had so much there was this banter with James, and there was this sort of snap to your personality, and we entered into the Sarah storyline and we got to see a really lovely, emotional side of Clay that was meaningful, and we needed that to be able to grab onto depth for you as an audience member to know to really fall in love
with you beyond just like I like this guy and I like his fun personality. But once we got through that and now he's with Quinn, Like it's the promise of fun that I believed I was going to get almost consistently with Clay based on the way that they introduced to your character that I'm getting annoyed, Like I
want to see more fun, snappy banter, Clay. I want to see who I was promised and I am not getting it because they just entered you into another dramatic, melodramatic storyline and miss I miss the you that I saw. I missed the Clay that I met.
Wow, I've never thought about it like that, but I totally get it because I can also tell you for me, comedy is my strike zone, Like that's sort of enter. That is my favorite place to play. And I agree that I got to do it at the start. And then they were like, but let's give him all the drama.
You know, and yeah, fine for a season.
Yeah, but like it goes on for a while.
Just keeps going on and on and on.
So I know, as the actor involved, I do recall kind of feeling like, hey, guys, when are we gonna come up for air?
It's like hiring a Jeremy Piven or Evince Vaughn type of you know, like these guys who are known for being having so much personality. Say what you want about them. I don't know them personally, but like hiring them to do something that I don't know who's like somebody that does a lot of melodrama as an actor, like hiring them to do Denzel type roles. I don't know, where is the quippiness, where is all the fun? Where is
Clay trying to make light of things? They just would not let you do it and it felt so frustrated for me as an audience member. I mean it, you did a great job, like you're so good at the drama. I just wish they'd let you expand on your personality more that they the one they knew you had.
Here's the thing I started. I kind of mentioned last episode that I had a take. I don't. I'm curious actually what people will will think about it. I'm wondering how many people on the same page as me. But I have been wanting, by the way, are we just calling her Lauren now that we haven't seen her in the classroom? I can't call her miss Lauren every episode I do too. I'm just gonna stick with it, miss Lauren,
Miss Lauren. I have wanted something to happen between Miss Lauren and Mouth, like basically this whole season, they've been sort of playing this one foot in, one foot out dance with us. We finally got a moment the end of two episodes ago, but they immediately excused it as
drunk behavior by Mouth. Then they came back and Miss Lauren kissed him and Skills walked in, and then we have this episode, and I gotta say, I think there is a very strong case to be made for Skills stepping aside and Mouth and miss Lauren to give it a go.
Interesting, I guess I agree. Skills did leave and he said, you know, they kind of broke up when he left, right, It wasn't like they were trying to maintain a long distance relationship, so and he had to know that they were still hanging out.
Here's kind of some of my reasoning, right, is that so he left, he didn't even ask her if she wanted to come, a point which she brought up and said it would if at least He's like, would you have come? And she says no, but it would have been nice to be asked. So it wasn't even serious enough for him to entertain the conversation with her. He
leaves right, and when he leaves, he's gone gone. There's a scene in which Miss Lauren shows up and Mouth is playing Vida games and he says, oh, I'm on with Skills now, and she makes a comment to the effect of, how's he doing. I haven't talked to him in a really long time, So he's not keeping in touch with her, he's not keeping an open line of communication. And then and then the whole while Miss Lauren and Mouth are finding like friendship in each other. It starts
off very innocently. It's like it starts off the way it should, like, with a good foundation of friendship, and then it kind of starts to evolve into more and then skill, and like they think about it, they're like, I don't want to be your rebound. I don't want to be your rebound. And then even after they've done their due diligence and they've weighed all the kind of the things at play, and they go like, let's give us a try. Of course, at that very moment, Skills
walks in. And then here's my other issue. There is just this strong entitlement of on Skills is part on the writing part, because I don't want to say ownership. That's too extreme. But like he does, he shows up and in the gallery, he walks up because Louren and Mouth are talking, and he walks up and he puts his arm around her waist and he says, hey, do you mind if I steal my girl away for a second?
And I just thought to myself, that's wild that you would leave for months, not weeks, months presumably not talk at all, and then you would walk up, put your arm around her and call her your girl.
And he even said that when he walked in the door right after they had kissed. Hey baby, yes, so I think you're right.
Like to me, what I don't like about it is it's it kind of smacks of someone who is really just like focused on themselves. It's sort of like I left, I'm assuming everything else frozen time, and now that I'm back, I'm going to pick up right where I left off because I'm the main character. And then he says he has the audacity to say to her after he like pulls her outside of the gallery, he goes, hey, you
seem distant. I'm like, bro, distant is when you dip out for months on end and don't check in with your girlfriend who you only broke up with because of geography. Like you were distant for months and now you show up acting as if nothing has changed, and then you you kind of check her on, not just like resuming right where you left off.
What Yeah, this goes to your first point about people not being like the emphasis is being put on the wrong person exactly. Really doesn't make sense.
And like that theme he gets there by the end, of the episode. He says like, hey, I'm sorry, I know, like he so, yeah, but there's literally it's like three different characters in this episode start with putting the emphasis on the wrong person. They eventually get to the right spot. But like I said, it's almost like they went our episodes three minutes short. Yeah, I know how we can add a little bit.
Yeah, I mean, but he got there, but then he didn't. And again like once he found out it was mouth, then he's punching mouth in the face, which was just so tacky. Also, I mean, listen having mouth and Miss Lauren having that intimate conversation in the photo booth that they know is being broadcast to the entire gallery. Yeah, not the smartest move.
No, especially after it goes off one time they look at the camera and then they continue to have the intimate moment. No one goes, oh crap a camera, let's stuck away. They're like, this seems like the right spot. Let's stand on the X directly in front of the camera broadcasting to the gallery.
Oh crap a camera. I think it's like a room they had to go into. They went in there.
But he so he punched his mouth, which again the sense of entitlement that he just goes away. I get it. You might feel betrayed by your friend, but if it's your best friend again, all you saw was that like a and was on an arm. There's nothing scandalous but that he immediately punches it just sort of added to the like you are not emotionally or mature like maturity wise where you need to be right now, like you need to level up and circle back.
Yeah, yes, level up and circle back.
I love that.
Because you're just name it there right now, pal, like you got to get some get some reps in, do some practice labs, and then come back. You know. The thing that was great about it, though, is that he punches mouth. He falls through the backdrop, revealing Alexander and Victoria, and she has that incredible moment where she sees everyone in the gallery looking at them and she just slowly walks out and she looks down at Mouth and she
just says, scandalous. That's just scandalous. It was so so funny.
Man completely leaving out Alexander in the dust, like not even a second thought, like, oh well, you're on your own kid, see.
Me, as if she wasn't involved in anything that he was a part of. She just sort of saw her way out quietly and commented on the body on the floor.
That's right, because Victoria knows how easy it would be to just reframe that whole situation for anyone who thought they saw her with alex and his underwear. She's like, oh, I was just passing through from the back room and suddenly Alexander was standing there in his underwear. I don't know what was going on. It was very bizarre. All everything was very bizarre. I had to get out of there.
It was so good. And then it led to, of course, the fantastic scene of Brooke yelling at her mom and Alexander the perfect role reversal of the child yelling at the parent.
Really funny, the two of them sitting in a chair, so funny. It was nice to have a little bit of that. I don't know, comic relief is there. It was just nice to see Brook happy in this episode because she's she's also been kind of sad and depressed for the last like seven episodes, so nice to see her have a little relief for sure, And.
Yeah, she definitely needed that release. There was a great comedic moment where I think it's after the news has broke. Paul's telling Julian were being blackmailed, and Josh keeps walking up, and first Julian tells him to shut up, and then Paul tells him to shut up. It was a really kind of a fun run there, so great. I liked that Brooke was the one who after Julian came down I think far too hard on Alex. I like that Brooke was the one who sort of softened his heart and was like, Nope, come on.
Help her, help her out, help her.
That was great.
Another thing in the gallery, Uh, did you do you keep that photo of yourself?
No?
Rob, It's good. You should have kept that.
It is a good photo, a good photo, I think. Actually it went up in an apartment in Wilmington when I lived. Really I lived downtown my first two years, the first two seasons, and then the third year I moved out and I moved in with Stevec Stephen Chletty for all.
Of you, ye also who made an appearance in this episode for like a shot, which was so bizarre.
I had a note about that. I was like, why are we limiting Chase to only bar specific material?
And he I think he said one line. We got a shot of his face and then moved on. Never saw him again for the rest of the entire episode and haven't seen him for a while anyway. It was just like somebody was like, oh, we need Chase. He's got storylines coming up. Somebody just get a shot of him in this episode, Like just hey, reminder audience, he exists. Okay, bye.
It's and it's odd. It's as if in tree Hill there is only one bartender left. They've all fled town for the cities. This is the only guy we got.
Grubs is recording an album anyway. So the photos in an apartment somewhere.
It was and I don't know what happened after I left I but yeah, I had it. I had it up for a bit, which is funny. It was a good photo.
It's a great photo. That's the kind of photo of somebody you see when you go it's like in their bathroom or like in a guest room somewhere in a hallway that tucked away in the corner. You know, it's like, you don't want to display it out for everyone, but it's nice to be able to go see if you're a house guest and you pass by it in the in the entryway or like the bathroom.
I want my house guests to know, look how serious I can look. You guys look at me when I think how pensive I am. I loved but I agree with you on the chase stuff. I wish we had more of it. I like that Grubbs eventually got there and asked Miranda to marry him because I was shouting at the TV as soon as that came up, like, what are you doing? Dumb? Dumb, like just proposed to her. But then I've really loved seeing Nathan and Jamie have
a guy's night. It was such a pure, joyful storyline in this episode.
Yeah, very very sweet. I did not like the kiss element. I thought, again lazy, Like there's so many meaningful things they could have done, and I think they just were like, I don't know, we just need them to do something cheap in the house. But I would love for them to have gone on another camping trip or gone to do something even bowling. I don't know, something out where you could get. They got into some real shenanigans and there was an actual even a d storyline to follow
of steaks. You know something happens, instigation, obstacle, you're trying to overcome it, and then they resolve it at the end. It could have been very simple, I don't know, toilet paper in somebody's house or so just something.
Oh my gosh, if they had gone to teepee what's his name, Chuck's house, how good would that have been? Yes, yeah, I agree with you. Here's what I will say about that. I loved the kiss you did. But here's why not not. I like listen. I like to see a father and a son bonding and having fun. Great. Yeah. What I loved about it was I was watching James, my friend, Yeah, who is not a guy to put on face makeup
and act like a flamboyant rock star. I was watching my buddy just going James is hating this, like he's he commits and he goes for it. But because I know the man doing it, I'm like, oh this is this is not his happy place?
Yeah? Yeah, No, this felt like one of those I mean, there were so many things in this episode that I think were reflections of our boss and his perspective and the way that uh women are viewed, the way that relationships are viewed. All of those things, but this also felt like some sort of something behind the scenes. How do I irritate James and put him in a position where he has to do something that he is embarrassed by and hates.
Well. Also, that montage felt like it was thirty two minutes long.
This is what I'm saying. Yes, it's like the adding the twenty extra seconds in every scene. If they had taken those out and put them into a real storyline. Moment between Nathan and Jamie going out tepeeing Chuck's house trying not to get caught. The cops are maybe chasing them. It's like it could be small little things. It doesn't have to be a long drawn out storyline, but we needed some energy.
It would have been more fun is watching a moment of so they're playing guitar hero, I get the transition to kiss. I understand that logic. Right. Here's what would have been funny is a moment where one of them goes, hey, you know what we should do. We should put on the makeup, and they see a picture of how the guys look and then they go to do it to themselves and it just looks terrible because they're not professional makeup yes. Yeah.
If Jamie had said that and Nathan was like, fine, yep, all right, let's do it. Just second up, let's do it, that would have been great, just the emphasis of seeing that moment and having it not be perfect. It would have been so fun.
But the fact that that Nathan was like, you know what, I actually know where all of mom's makeup is. I know exactly what to use. Yeah, because they were perfect makeup jobs. If my son was like, let's do that, I would I would have no clue what to do if Jenny weren't around.
Yeah, Like where did they get the pure white clown makeup? Because Haley doesn't have that in her kit. This is like in the bottom of a pile of things. You know how in kids' rooms if you go into like a seven or eight year old's room in the closets somewhere, there's baskets stacked on top of each other and it's
just all full ofh just whatever little things. Somebody gave Jamie a face paint kit five years ago that never got thrown out, and it's in the bottom of the corner of the closet, And that's what I wanted to see them go dig for pull it out, watch Jamie try and do his dad's makeup like it would have been so cute. That's what's happened in my mind. I'm rewriting it in my mind.
In my mind, Hailey moonlights as a geisha from time to time, so she has plenty of that white clown makeup just around the house, and a kitchen drawer and a bathroom shelf. You know, it's everywhere.
Love it.
Speaking of Haley, I did because, you know, last week when I had seen almost all of this episode and I had said, oh, there's not much grieving obviously, I hadn't got to the end of this episode, and watching Haley try to hold it together at the gallery opening, which makes a lot of sense, and then completely coming undone, which I liked because for a big emotional release, they really kind of pulled back all of the theatrics and that may have been a uk, I don't know, but
I like that it was. I love the honesty and the simplicity of you just quietly woke up in bed and snuck outside to not wake the family and then just fell apart.
Yeah, I remember doing that scene. I also remember throughout the episode having to fight for Haley to to be
low energy. I think Quinn was excited and pushing through and she sort of had to be on and Brooke was finally happy and at peace, and I feel like they wanted a lot more of Haley's excitement for Quinn and all of for all of Haley's interactions, I remember just feeling like I was getting asked to be happier or be just a little more energy, just more energy, and I was like, I just And when I first watched it, I was thinking, was I just miserable in
my life? Like, oh no, this is I was making this choice because Lydia had just passed away, and it didn't make any sense for Haley to just be like moderately sad. So I'm glad. I you know, I wasn't.
I didn't, I wasn't always right, But I'm glad I stuck to my guns on this one because I think it I think we needed it, but I also think it was I remember it being hard to do because if everything around me is kind of low energy, my tendency as an actor is to find a way to brighten everything up and keep the energy up, because I'm trying to like carry the scene like, oh no, everything
is getting so slow. So it was such a good challenge to try and settle into and be comfortable with just being there and not having much reaction to anything. And it paid off in the end, in the end of the episode, and I forgot how dark this goes for her.
Oh I don't remember.
So yeah, this keeps going for her for a while.
Well, I think you found a really nice place for it to settle because the gallery, it makes sense. You do need to have some energy for that. It's a big night for your sister. Yeah, you know, it's not like it was a family dinner night where it's just kind of you know, standard fair. It's like you do sort of need to turn it on, you know, just to sort of cheerlead your sibling.
Yeah, you know.
But then so I bought all of that. And then, like I said, just when you actually have a private moment kind of the first time, because.
Isn't that the worst when you're just in absolute pain and misery and you have to show up somewhere and pretend like everything's fine, because what what are you going to do? Like somebody's you can't have any real meaningful conversations if somebody who knows you really well, gets too close, looks you too long in the eye, puts their hand on you in a way that's comforting. It's like I'm going to fall apart. I need nobody to touch me.
I need nobody to look at me. I can talk to you about the weather and the news maybe, but like I can't, I just cannot have anything meaningful going on because I'm going to fall apart. It's the worst.
So when, because I think you just describe being an actor as well, when you are having stuff go on in your life, do you find it harder to come to work and do your job or do you find it easier because you were able to sort of dissociate and just escape to someone else.
I find it a lot harder to come to work, and especially if I have to do comedy or I even just be fine, be just normal. It takes so much energy to lift up from feeling heavy, to lift up just to a normal level of energy for me. So if I have to do stuff that's really especially really funny, and then I feel bad because I feel like I'm not being authentic, I'm not doing a good job because it feels fake, and which makes me feel worse about my real life and it's a bad cycle.
That that's it. It's tough for me. What do you? How do you? How about you? How does it feel for you?
It's kind of similar for me. I the thing you were just describing. I find gets me where. It's because I really try to be authentic and my life and sort of honor my feelings and where I'm at, And because what I used to do was always sort of have a facade of like, I'm good, how are you? Just the like infinite consonant people pleaser, I'm okay. I
need you to be okay. And so I do find I have had moments where I'm doing light fare comedy, rom com type stuff, and as soon as they call cut, I feel my face drop and and I if I'm not careful, I can find myself resenting the work because I'm like, this is me. I'm sad, you know, because I just I feel how false it is. I feel it feels so fake to me, you know. But if on the same handle, there's a coin if I'm doing drama, it kind of is a shortcut to drop into.
Where I Yes, definitely, I had.
A director one time say bring your set, and he was right because it was like if I was going through something and I had to play you know, heaviness, it was like, oh, I'm we're grounded.
Oh god, I here, Yeah, I'm with you.
When it's comedy or light, feel good stuff, it's just extra tiring. You become aware of how tiring it is to fake energy when you just don't have it.
I would say it's one of the benefits, however, being on a show with cast members that you feel safe with and have known for a really long time, versus showing up to do a guest spot or you know, if you're on a movie and it's like we one
or something. There's something that is I have done this where I've shown up to set feeling not great and just let myself have a moment, have a cry, have like just trusting that the other artists around me understand that we're not robots and sometimes you're having a hard day and you just need to let it out, and the sheer moment of releasing it out of my body will and being witnessed by other people who say it's okay,
take a moment. Life is hard sometimes, and then getting myself put back together and showing up, walking back onto set and doing the scene does make it a lot easier for me. If I can allow myself to just be a human and release. If I have to take five minutes, everybody's going to have to wait for five minutes while I cry and get it out of my body and then step back in. That does really help. But I don't feel like I can do that very often. I think I have to feel really safe in the environment.
But working on our showed, you know, we had such a great group of people, so that was something we could do. I hope that made sense, and I mean to talk in a circle.
Yeah, no, it does make sense. And I think also I do like work is helpful for me when I'm going through something. I mean, listen, if I like lost the loved one and I'm grieving, it's different because that's just grief and that's living in my body. But if it's you know, oftentimes eighty five percent of my struggles
are created in my head. Eighty five percent of them probably will never ever happen, you know, So a lot of times my struggles are of my own making, and going to work and forcing my mind to focus on other things can help pull me out of that loop I'm in, because I know, once my head gets stuck on something, my mind can just sort of loop and loop and loop and ruminate on it and going to work and forcing myself to say different words, to listen
to people, to be present. It's sort of like it gives me enough space from it to go like, oh, okay, that it took some of the air out of the balloon. Yeah, what felt so big before has now become kind of right sized and it's more manageable. Yeah, versus like you know, when you lay in your back when you're like I used to do this all the time my twenties, when I'd wake up with anxiety or something and I didn't know what to do besides just lay in my bed.
And of course that is the for at least for me, that is the worst possible thing I can do.
Yes, I'm the same. I mean I many years of my life. I've really only recently, in the last I think a year or two, learned how to get myself up out of bed because I would wake up and immediately feel depressed, like open my eyes and feel all the pressure of the day, all the things that I didn't and then it's like, friends, I forgot to say happy birthday to a month ago, and it's like every little possible thing that's in your brain about how what
an I am? Why everybody hates me, why my life is a mess, and lela la, all of the horrible things that lead you completely out of gratitude and into feeling worse and worse and worse about yourself. And that's what was like the replay, like the record on my brain every morning when I open my eyes, and it is so exhausting, and the worst thing that I would do is lay in bed because I didn't know. I
felt paralyzed by it and I hadn't didn't have any tools. Yeah, but I tell you, like stepping foot out of bed, getting my body upright, drinking a glass of water, taking a shower, like wat just getting water on your body, kind of like you know, even babies react to it if they're throwing a fit. You put a kid in a bath and they're like, okay, something's different, you know, step outside, just something to change it up in your brain makes all the difference.
Yes, completely, you know, it's esteemable. Actions build esteam. And so what I started doing when I was starting to develop my toolkit, was I would I'm a I'm a to do list guy, clearly like I love structure, I love I love a list, and so I would pad my to do list, and my first three things would be make bed, brush teeth, take a shower, usually get dressed. So by the time I was starting my day, I had a sense of accomplishment.
Yeah, you've checked some things off.
I've taken off like a core of this list, you know. But it's funny that Clay had the line I would say, The line most people talk to me about is I think it's no matter how fast you run, the pain will run faster. It's something to that. I know. I'm not getting it word for word everybody, but you know the gist of it. It's something I think Clay's already said by this point, I believe because he's talking about grief and how he he knows from experience, because he
tried to outrun it and just escape it. And what's interesting is I'm only now realizing that I should have taken my own advice sooner, like Rob, because this was a time my life where I was just struggling and I had no toolkit. So I remember as we were talking about laying in bed, I used to I can still picture the room, so clearly I would have to as soon as I got home from work, I would have to put a DVD of one of my favorite
shows on. It would stay on through falling asleep, and as soon as I woke up if it had gone to the menu screen, I immediately started it back up because I couldn't just be alone with my thoughts like going to sleep and waking up were the two scariest parts of the day for me. Wow, So I had
to have white noise. It felt familiar, It felt like it was almost like friends in the house, because my only solution would have been I'm just going to pull the covers over my face, which, of course, like all it does is kill time, but it would make life just infinitely scarier and harder.
So that's a good coping mechanism for a season, just to start, you know, get you out of your own brain. You if and when thoughts are overwhelming, and then what do you do moving on from that? Like what's the next level up from that?
Well? I mean at best that having TV on the background as a band aid, like it's not shooting anything at all. I mean for me, what I just discovered for myself was like I do best in motion, So it's I just got to get out of bed and start doing things. And because otherwise just you know, like my my brain can be a very dangerous neighborhood to
be hanging out in by myself. So like when I wake up and my brain has suited up for the opposing team, I'm like, oh, okay, I got to call some people, Like I got to get busy, you know, before my head gets busy on me. And I just didn't know better back then.
Yeah, but you'd coped the best way you knew how That's what I'm saying. Like, there's this element of level to level, you know, good glory to glory whatever however you want to phrase it. But the idea that like you're figuring it out and the band aid that you had at that moment was that was what you had. And so then there's another level after you decide that this is just a band aid, how do we actually take the band aid off and start healing the wound.
Also, I think that didn't help at the time, was again this was pre therapy, so I kind of felt like I always needed to present the version of Rob that had the fewest needs and took up the least amount of space. Yea, and which in my head was I'm just going to be easy and fun and here for you, but I don't need anything from you, which also meant I'm not going to tell you when I'm struggling or scared or hurting because I don't want to be in position. So I wasn't saying like, hey, man,
does anyone else have a solution to this? Because, like you know, now where I'm at, it's like, if I'm struggling with something, I'll reach out to someone close to me and either just to bring them in on it, you know, because a burden shared is halved, a joy shared is doubled. It's like, I'm a big believer in that. But also because they may have a solution, they may go, oh yeah, I went through that and here's what I
did that helped me. But back then it was like, how you doing, Rob, great man, how are you?
Even if they don't have a solution, just being heard being seen having somebody like listen say, I don't know what that's like, but I can imagine based on what you're explaining to me, and I'll be thinking about you. What do you need? You want to come over? You want to watch a show together on FaceTime? You want me to door to ash you something, You want to do a crossword puzzle together. I don't know. Just having somebody hold space for you, even if they don't have advice, can change everything.
A little good old fashioned connection, you know, it's always the secret sauce. It's just other people. If you're just joining us, Welcome back to Joy and Rob's therapy Corner. Today, we're talking about growth, where we've been, how we got to where we are today.
Well, Clay certainly could take some of all of this advice, some of all.
Of this some of all isn't that funny? It's like when people go, I maybe definitely can be there.
Yeah that may be definitely could I definitely maybe could be there, definitely.
Maybe you definitely maybe could use a grammar class.
Wait, do you follow this guy? I just started following this guy on we have a listener question We'll get to in a second. I followed this guy I have to find it and he talks about Southern isms and he's talking about like now when you when somebody's trying to get off the phone with you in the South. Here are the cues that you need to listen to. Now, there's one way to say it, which is I'm gonna let you go. But the real kind way to say
it and what you want to do. You want to win this, So the real important thing is for you to say, I'm gonna let you I'm gonna, i'm gonna let you let me go. Shoot, I'm gonna I'm butchering it. Oh, let me let you go. It's not just I'm gonna let you go. It's all right, well, let me let you go, because then you win. You're the most considerate.
The page asks if you could pick your TV siblings from any other show, who would it be. Oh?
I mean I always go back to the Huxtables. It's my favorite TV family ever. But I think Who's the Boss comes in at a close second. I feel like I would have had a lot of fun with Sam. I don't know what I mean, Alissa Milano, I can't remember what the character's last name is. What about you?
I am going to go arrested development.
You would have such a field day with that.
Yeah, I just think there would never be a dull moment. Holidays would be exceptionally disastrous and entertaining all day. Yeah, take them all.
Okay, this guy is landon Bryant and you will you will thank me later. He's really funny Landon Bryant.
Land and Bryant.
Okay, honorable mention. Hm, I mean Paul Teal is always going to get my honorable mention from now on every episode he's in. I love him and I miss him already.
Also, is Josh behind the Oh? He is? I was gonna say, I remember watching the episode at the start, going is he behind it? And I think we realize after he leaves jan As hotel or sees me Alex's hotel room met he is? So I can't wait to see what he's cooking up. But yes, honorable mention all day. Paul Teal? Yeah, what a guy, What a loss? Much love to to uh to Paul into his loved ones this difficult season. Well, what do we have next episode? Oh no, we have a wheel first, Ultra horses. Roberto
most likely to get a residency in Vegas. I'm gonna say both Haley and Joy.
I feel like I could do that. I mean, I don't love Vegas. But that does seem like something that would be fun for like a year. Maybe maybe I do like glitter and heat.
I just love the idea of you've moved to Vegas. I'm like, what drew you to Vegas?
Joy?
And you're like, honestly, I just love glitter. That would be the most joy answer ever. I would be so tickled.
I love glitter. Next episode, Season seven, episode twenty, Learning to Fall. Thank you so much for joining us, and we look forward to seeing you next week.
And can I just say, can you just do all of your segues? Can all of them start with I love glitter?
Yes?
From this it would be the most hilarious runner. People tune in three episodes are like, why does she keep talking about how much she loves glitter?
On topic I'm pushing for my Vegas residency.
You're like, I love glitter. It was so sad to see Victoria die in this episode.
One's like, what, I'm on it and I'm putting it in the arsenal.
All right, thanks for joining us, everybody, Bye, Hey, thanks for listening.
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at drama queens o t h or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com. See you next time.
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