Twin Peaked w/ Sheryl Lee • EP310

That was That wasn't even like a real episode. That was just a bunch of flashbacks kind of super glued together with some weird expository filler in there. It was very strange. It feels like somebody looked at the board for what's happened so far in the season and what needs to happen, and went, oh shit, it's too many bridges, And they were like, I know, we can make a bunch of things. Makes sense if we just tell people all these things happened, and also will freeze frame constantly

frame what do do do do? Do do that song? Oh my god? All right. This was the season three

episode ten Brave New World. It originally aired January eleventh, two thousand six, which makes sense because this would have been like the episode that comes back after mid season, So our mid season break would have happened last episode with Nathan and Haley getting back together and with brook and Lucas getting back together, big Cliffhangers, Peyton just crying all by herself, and then we come back with this madness.

The day after Brooks says those three magic words to Lucas, he gets in a car with Peyton to take a road trip to visit Ellie and then uh, Peyton makes Ellian offer that could bring them closer together. Meanwhile, Lucas reconnects with an old friend, which was lovely but super random, and then back in Tree Hill, Brooks clothing line close over bros becomes an overnight hit and she asks literally everybody to help out. Plus Nathan finds out the truth about his mother and her role in the fire that

almost killed Dan. That was dramatic and something that was so badly written that we just didn't know what to do with ourselves. Honestly, James and Barbara did. I think they did a great job with that, With what they could do with that material, They leaned in. They committed so hard and that is not easy when you get a scene that could either be filler on Days of Our Lives or c S I whose show? Whose show is this that I just hackled you an episode? C s I Perfect. I had to crush the pills. Then

I had to write the letter. The last thing that was left to do was seal the bottle. I had to light the fire. I mean, it's who was saying I usually like this writer. You know, not everybody can every time. I mean it's not it's not the end of the world, but you know, well, and just just because this writer's name is on the script doesn't mean that's the person that actually wrote it. Like it's sometimes it's like the last person to put a polish on it.

Um So in season three. A lot of times what happens on shows, regardless of how sexual successful, sex sexful show is, is that your original writers start peeling off and they get pilots of their own, or they get jobs on other shows, and you start bumping nevies up. And so sometimes scripts like this, we're like, was this a new kid? Was this someone getting their first go? So we want to be gentle while also poking a

lot of at it because it was dreadful. Yeah, listen, before we get too far into this, something happened to me this week. Okay, okay, okay, talk about this, you guys. We just need you to know the willpower of our friend Joy. Because we got on as we always do, to watch the episode, and we start, you know, cackling about dumb things we've done this week, and Joy goes, oh, I have a story to tell the two of you, and we go okay, and she goes, I'll save it for the episode. She made us wait. She made us

wait a whole an hour. What happened? I'm standing in line for lunch to order lunch, and I have the menu in my hand, and I hear, what are you gonna get? Look up and there is like a six ft five or more lumberjack looking slightly disheveled, crystal blue eyed sweet man staring down at me like I'm like, uh, I don't know. I think I'm gonna get there whatever wrap and uh, you know how, Yeah, this place is pretty good. Blah blah blah. He strikes up a conversation

and he's can I look at the menu? Yeah? Yeah, it takes the menu and we start, how's your dad going, oh, I say, my my day's going great. Actually, how about you? Oh it's great, you know, like blah blah blah. He starts launching into this whole story about how he's just bought this new property. I was like, oh, great, where are you from? So it turns out we've actually lived in several of the same places, and I've moved around a lot, so it's it's kind of cool that we've

lived in several same places. And we're talking and um as as he keeps talking about this property that he just bought and you know, a couple of companies that he owns, and he's super charming and really sweet, and I'm thinking, yeah, I'm gonna ask this guy to join me for lunch. And he gets up to the register, he pays for his food, and he turns around and before I can say it, he goes, hey, you want to eat? And I'm like, yeah, all right, okay, okay.

I'm like great, it's great. So total meet cute. So I go sit down, I get my food, I get I get my little placard, and I go. We go sit down and and so we start talking and it's easy conversation, like this guy is. He's interested and smart and tals. We're talking about architects, we're talking about philosophers, were talking about traveling, and it's just like this is so nice. And he's an ex athlete and I have to remind myself to breathe. We are bated breath right now.

It's so interesting, Like I'm just I'm at this table and I'm there and I'm interested and um and we just have this great chat and he's like mid forties and I'm just going, God, is this real? Like wow, how amazing? And as he's talking towards the end of the meal and we were sitting there for like an hour, towards the end of the meal, he said saying something

about it's business venture and the property. And he says the word we a couple of times, and I've already talked about But the first sentence I say out of my mouth is like, yeah, my daughter and I just moved here blah blah blah or whatever. And so I'm thinking, Oh, does he have a kid? Oh that's weird. He didn't. He would have said that if I And then I'm like, oh,

he's talking about his pets a lot. Like sometimes I talk about my pets, like we or maybe it's a business partner, or like maybe his mother lives with him, and there's a part of me that's like maybe he's got a girlfriend and it's going south. Yeah, And like I'm like, I don't know how I feel about that, but you know, I'm going to give him a little space. So I didn't want to ask, because the thing is, if I ask who's it puts me in the position of a I give him my cards of him knowing

that I'm interested. So and I just don't I like to they need to work a little harder than that for me. So I just was like, I didn't say anything, you know. But he gives me the Instagram handle for the website of this property like farm. Oh, by the way, he lives on a farm. He bought a farm. Oh my god, I mean I'm dying. And um, so he gives me He's like turn it into a retreat property and Airbnb and all this stuff, and here's the Instagram handle, go look at it. I'm like, okay, great. He gives

me his number, I give him my number. We leave. He texts me afterwards, you know this is me. Nice to meet you, and I'm like, yeah, great to know you. So then I go look at the Instagram handle later on, I'm like scrolling and I see it's like all these beautiful pictures of nature and great stuff, and I see one photo of him with this girl and they look kind of cozy, but it's from like a little bit ago. So I'm like, oh, maybe it's you know, maybe that's

the next girlfriend or something. So I click on the picture and I do the click at the clicks, you know, to see who this man is marriage. This man is engaged, not for long, not when she hears this, yeah and engaged. I'm just like, but like from like, they're still there. It's all happening, Like there's new posts about the place and it's like all the new you know, we bought this place and we're so excited and blah blah blah. Joy You know, every engaged chick is going through her

fiance better. If this motherfucker has Joyless number in his phone, he is dead. So I called my friend Eric Palladina. Hillary, you know Eric, of course, Jeff No, Eric Palladina. Guys, Eric Palladina. The reason I called Eric. He's on a marvelous Mrs Maisel for any of you, you guys who are watched that show. Um, Eric is from Yonkers and he's the most direct, just deeply deeply masculine, Like I don't know how else to say it. He's just such

a guy's guy, as a whole guy's guy. Man. So I was like, if anybody's gonna understand the male psyche, this is the guy I'm going to call. So that's why I texted him and I was like, here's what's up, and you know, I told him what happened and and he was like, joy, No, man is gonna stay and in line and start talking to you and have a strike up a conversation and then ask you to lunch just to be friends, just to be friends. That's not

a thing. And especially if he's engaged with the first words out of his mouth should have been my fiance and I blah blah blah, because then you know. And I'm like, yeah, that's it, and that's it because then I wouldn't know then and then they could have been your new city friends. That was not this man's intention. I cannot wait to see who you stand by way with something man, And he was like, I'm sorry, if you're battling yourself, I get it, Like whatever, you're having

to make me a casualty of your battle. Honestly, it hurt. I was like I spent the whole day kind of being like excited and like, oh, I'm at this guy and he liked me and he thought it was cute and like, as you are cute. So you are very cute and then like you're engaged. What You're so cute that someone is ready to fire bomb their life to have lunch with you about that? But okay, so here's the next part. So Eric tells me he's like, no, no, just them, and I'm like, okay, fine, I'm never gonna

hear from this guy again. He was having a weird moment and whatever. He texts me stop it. Two days later, he did not sends me a text a voice note, Hey, I was just thinking about you and like, you know, you're working out tile and uh and I'm just anyway, I hope you're having a great day. So I right back, I am having a great day. Hey are you engaged? And he writes back yes with a bunch of exclamation points, and then he says, are we too attracted to each

other to be friends. What is this is to say, like, you guys and our listening audience, like, you guys know I don't air dirty laundry, like I never talked about this, but this is Eastern our mail. Yeah, he's like, wow, I can't, like it's unreal. You guys aren't chat right now, screaming and no. And it really blew me away because I just totally miss judged him, right. I told you my picker is bad, like I thought this guy was sweet. No, you didn't try to pick he came and picked on that.

This is not your fault. Yeah, so I said, you know what, I didn't want to get into it. I just said, yes, yes, we are too attracted to each other. And I said, but good luck and stop asking pretty girls to lunch. You know, I put a little smiley face like I'm going to be nice about this, but you're you know that was a dick move. And he writes back the response is no, no, no, whatever. If I had a nickel for every time I was hit on,

I wouldn't have to work. And then he says something about what I know something about I figured it's the same for you, so you'd appreciate the sentiment. We just you know, it just gets overlooked and then we become friends anyway. Um, but I wasn't expecting a lunch like what we had, Like, I wasn't expecting us to connect that much, and so nib but like, okay, here, here's here's what my real problem here is that he's he's convincing. First of all, the response of like whatever, oh blah

blah blah. I get hit all the time. How about take The answer is you're right. I totally was trying to get away with something. I don't know what's going on with me. I'm sorry. That was unfair to you and totally unfair to my fiance. And I'm sorry, I don't know what's going on with me. I'm sorry. That's the answer. That's the only that's the only answer. Yeah, I need you to send me this Instagram profile right now. Yeah, you are going to send us this farm Instagram joylight

me into thinking. Now I'm the one like, sorry, if you're not enlightened enough to just be friends with a handsome guy, off, are you kidding? That's the gust? Stupid? Does he not have friends? You're the one that's new in town right well, and by the way, and by the way, it's so deeply insulting and like, I'm gonna put my petty head on for a minute. I'm like, have you seen have you seen the guy friends in our friend group? Like, sir, we have plenty of deeply

attractive male friends. Are some of our closest people Like that? Ain't it that? That? Ain't it's where men of honor. There's no honor in trying to get way with something like that and then convincing yourself that you're not trying to get away with something. Yeah, if you're just trying to get away with something. The first words out of his mouth would have been if he found himself talking to a pretty girl and got caught up in it, you correct your course, my f and blah blah blah.

You should meet my girlfriend. I think you guys would like each other so much. You're new here, sit for an hour at line and tough blirting and get me thinking for two days and then text me without acknowledging, Hey, I was talking to my girlfriend about your tile situation and she had somebody like whatever, I just don't don't try to get away with it, and then act like you weren't. And girls, if a man does this to you,

it's bullshit. It's gas lighting. It's not okay. It is why older women, this is Daniel don't trust men, So Dan Scott of him. No. But this is why we get more and more blunt as we get older, because the next dude that comes up to in line, you're just gonna say, are you engaged? Like you're just gonna say it, and they'renna be like this chick's bananas, but and you're like, I just want a time. They wasting my time or tell me, just tell me that you're engaged.

I want to have had lunch with you. Anyway, of course you're in a different lunch. I can't wait to see a picture of this dude. He's doomed. He's doomed. That's what happened. I friends, watch out. Okay, we can segue out of that. I just had to tell you. But we guys, everybody out there, listen, we actually have something really much more exciting than my weird love life story. I don't know on this episode. Um, we have an

awesome guest, Hillary. I think you should be the god you guys, I'm gonna cry at some point during the course of this UM. I feel really, really lucky that for the majority of season three, the love story that I got to have is between Peyton and her birth mother, Ellie, and the actress that played Ellie is the one and only Cheryl Lee. She was with us today. I'm totally freaking obsessed with her and I don't get to see her talk to her nearly enough. So Bran are in here?

Give her to Cheryl? How are you not age Ryl? You like look exactly? Gosh, you Lookie. I'm so happy to tiss you. Miss you. You guys. So the last time we saw each other was the first time we've seen each other since we weren't on the show together anymore. It had been like twelve years. It in a very long time, and it was at the convention, right before the pandemic hit. And I just remember you walking into the green room and I just started like sobbing control

I turned into Peyton in real life. I'm so happy to see you, just it's good for my heart. Where are you right now? I am in to Panga Canyon in Los Angeles? Amazing, Cheryl, do you know Daphne? Are you and Daphne'suniga friends. I know she's out there in to Panga. I don't think I've ever met her. You guys would have had such good energy together here on the show too. She was on she was Brooks mom. Um, it's so cool to see you two side by side

here after having just watched that episode too. I'm we were We've always been gushing every time you're on screen. We gush about what an incredible actress you are and how much we all looked up to you before you came on the show, and how excited we were when we heard that we got you. It was like catching up big fish. We were so excited. Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I'm so grateful to be a part of it. Well, you were. You were an original

drama queen. You know, we like tongue in Cheek named ourselves drama queens for this podcast because we were, like, you know, we were kissing and crying for the better part of a decade and like it paid all our mortgages. Um, but you as Laura Palmer on Twin Peaks, I mean you were an original drama queen, this iconic teenage character that the country was obsessed with you know who killed

Laura Palmer was like that was the catchphrase. And so if you could tell our audience kind of about your trajectory getting involved in that, because I was like your first big job, right. Yes, I was living in Seattle studying theater. I hadn't really even thought about television or film and I but I had an agent in Seattle and you know, just for commercial stuff or whatever. And I got a call from her that this director m. David Lynch for this mysterious television pilot and was interested

in casting local for um. And it was the role of a dead girl, and that's all anyone knew. And so I went in. I had seen Blue Velvets, I went in, which was shot in Wilmington's Yeah, Oh my gosh, that's right, I forgot. Yeah, I so much. Is a lot still shooting in Wilmington now there's a ton But where our river Court was is where they found the ear in the field in Blue Velvet. You know how like the movie begins and there's like an ear in

the field. It's over there where the bay. That's the crossover we needed is the Blue Velvet tree hill over a lot in the nineties for Yeah. So then, UM, I just I didn't know what to expect to meeting him. And I went in and I met him, met David, and he was so kind and so warm, and I was so nervous that I my hands were shaking so bad I had to sit on. Do you talk with your hands like we do? We all, like the three

of us, can't stop talking with our hands. Yeah, I was shaking like a leap that he was kind and warm, and Um asked me how I feel about being dipped in gray dye and plastic and freezing cold water, and I said, just absolutely fine. And then that's how it started. I was tired for I think it was four days of work as a corpse, you know, the finding the body and then the flash vaccines and then and then I stayed in Seattle and kept doing theater. And then much later Um he called and asked if I would

be interested in coming back on the show. And I said, well, sure, but has a sister I'm dead. He's like, don't worry about that, I'll figure it out. Wow. That was my first grown up show. I remember watching. I remember like my dad was watching it, and I don't know how it was probably like, actually have no idea how old I was, but I remember it being like, I don't I think this show is too grown up for me,

but I can't stop watching it is so interesting. It had a real real impact on probably my whole Macaw outlook on many things. It was definitely the show that like goth girls were into, and being a goth girl in high school was like, man, if you're not watching Twin Peaks, if you're not like freaking out over Twin Peaks, what are you even doing with your life? What are you listening to? Boy bands? You? What are you listening

on my block? Get out of here? And so you ended up doing how many seasons of the show did you guys do of Twin Peaks? Um? Two? So there were only two seasons. I think they just did not know what to do with us. Well, then that ended, and then years later the movie came, and then that ended, and then twenties something years later the season three came.

We'll talk about the movie though, because Moira, who was Karen on our show, was in the movie with you, right, yes, yes, And I actually had worked with Moira before that, even really really every week together when we were I mean, I was right out of Twin Peaks. It was like the one of my first jobs off of the second season of Twin Peaks, I worked with Moira, So when I heard Moira was coming onto the film, I was so excited because we already had this history and I

loved her. I just a big fan of her. So she's a good time. And then you also worked with Craig who on her cast. Didn't you work Did you work with Paul too, Hansen too? I don't think so. I mean, you know, it's, um, sometimes I forget what

I've worked on. Yeah, we get that. When I was rewatching the show, Um, this show last night and I was seeing you all and it's like my heart just first open because um, you're so young, and I know what it feels like to be to have to go through you know, you're on a show and this is happening, and you're at this really important time in your own life figuring things out, and then you're on the show and that becomes a success and like, there's no handbook

that comes with this. We're just kind of going with it. And it's just I wish we had had the wherewithal to ask you for advice, Yes, you were that age When I was your age, that was one thing I would find um older actors and I would follow them around like a puppy because I was like, I don't know anything that I need to learn as much as I can. How do you how do you have a life while you do this? You know what happens when you work with directors that terrify you. You know, all

of the questions. I was probably really annoying because I just would um and I still in that way where I was seeking out elders to for guidance. How do you walk this path? That's agree quality? Because I think we all felt like we have to act like we have it all together, because you know, if we don't act like we have it all together, then no one will trust us. And then if nobody trusts us, we won't be able to get to do our job right, and then we won't be able to stand up for ourselves.

And we have to be taken seriously. And in order to be taken seriously, we just have to act like we know everything, which is so dumb. And the grown ups that were around us regularly, we're scary. A lot of them, you know, not not our coworker, lovely friends, but like we had some we had some people around were very quickly we were like, oh no, we don't, we don't want to be we can't. We gotta We're

gonna hide out. We're gonna hide And so interestingly, I think it made us less I don't know if the word is aware, or perhaps it made us feel like we had less um wherewith all our permission too. Then when someone like you was around two to go and you know, trust you or seek your advice like and I think that was probably pretty subconscious. But now even just be scared as you don't want to do something dumb or be like how was your what was it like? We're going to twin like just a bunch of dirty

little puppies. And now I'm like, damn it, we should have just followed you around him. Been annoying. I am in awe of you all now because the way that you um are so multifaceted, creatively and speaking your truth and connecting and and following what you believe to be true. I did not have the guts to do that at all, and so I bowed you with great respect and gratitude.

I'm like, thank god, these this generation is um has the courage to stand up in a way that um, I know I didn't in mind, Well, I didn't realize similar our situations were, Cheryl, because we were filming in Wilmington's where we were all like taken away from our friends and our family and kind of the circles that we built and kind of put in this little small bubble. And you guys being in Seattle filming this show that

was like a sensation and a huge hit. Did you feel protected by that bubble or did you feel like more stuff could more, more things could get away, you know, people get away with things. Well we so, Um, the pilot was shot up there in Washington. But then um, at some point a lot of the series was shot in l A. It was remember the exact timeline. Yeah, yeah, So, Um, I had no idea what I was in for because I had no television experience, no film experience, no experience

being in front of the public eye. Um. And so then like I remember about watching the pilot in the series in l A. That's when I was living in l A when it started to come out. So we were shooting down here. We had studios in the valley. Um. So yeah, in that sense, the only bubble that I had was just that I didn't know anything, like totally totally experienced and had no idea. Unfortunately, you know, social

media didn't exist that I do. Now. You you saved my ass because when we were doing I want to say, it's maybe even the next episode, it's when Ellie is like moved in with Peyton. I was up for a job where there was mandatory nudity, and you had your son at the time, and I was just so enamored with that that you were this like working mom and you would like tell me about your son's dreams and the phone calls you would have with him, and I

loved hearing about this. And I feel like you told me, like your son really like snakes, you know, like there's there's certain things that just pop. And we talked about your kids so much, um that when I was like, I'm up for this job, they really want me to be naked in it, and you were just like, don't do it. You're like, you're gonna have to talk to

him about it one day, your son. And at the time, I was years away from having kids, you know, and I was just like, oh god, I never thought about that, Like I never thought about the people in my future i'd have to have these conversations with. And it really changed the way I made decisions and the way I prioritized jobs. And it made me reconsider like which jobs were artsy and which job you know, because they were.

There was kind of the stick with women where they be like, well, if you're a real artist, you'll you'll do all the things we want you to do. And you called bullsh on it for me at a very young age and made me feel empowered to be like, I don't know, sounds like a low budget movie to me. You guys go this was Titanic. Pay me like a French girl. But also, okay, yeah, I learned that one the hard way. I didn't have anyone tell me, um

to think about that or two. And also I, you know, a lot of the jobs I did, I didn't feel like there was a choice. It was like work as an actor, where as an actress, this is this is what you do, and um, within that, there are parameters of you know, what the audience sees is what you did say yes to, not what you said no to.

But yeah, so um, I would do a lot things different if I could go back into well even but even in like during that era, it was still really normal to not have a choice, you know, like if you wanted to do a show on HBO or cable, we all were presented with that. It was like that was part of the contract. If you want to be on a big girl show, you gotta you know, bear all. And you were so protective of us even in the midst of all of that, when it was still really

really prevalent um. I feel like it only not like just only recently in the last year or two, is where you can be like no, and then they just hire a body double so it looks like you were naked anyway. And I feel like a lot of that changed with Sex in the City because all those girls, like um, what's her name, Kim Control was the only one on that show who was ever naked real camera. Yeah, Santhia Nixon was too. Cynthia Nixon was okay, but the

other two weren't. And you know, you're on a show called Sex and the City and it's all about girls, and there's young women in their sex lives, and two of the lead actresses who were very famous already at the time, did not have to be nude in the show ever, And um, I don't know how Sarah Sarah Jessica worked that into her contract or um or Kim Davis,

but Kim Davis, Um, what's her name? Christin Davis christ and Davis thinking um, but yeah, but I think when that happened, and it's said an example of like, look, if Sarah Jessica Barker can lead a show called Sex in the City all about sex and never have to be nude on him, I think the rest of us can figure it out. We can certainly do a TV drama. And it also made it so easy to be like, yeah, people have sex and bras guys moving on, like moving

on sex and that's it. Yeah, it should be Oh my god, It's like it's like that movie driving in cars with boys, but it's having sex on TV and bras. Let's write down memoir Sirl, how they how they come to you for our show? How did we get you? Um? Yeah,

I don't know, they just someone. Um. All I remember is knowing that there was an arc and knowing that it was a limited amount, which was good because that's all I could do with my son being young, and because I was living in l A And it was shot there, and um, and so I just remember going in to talk to Mark about the character. And I was really interested in the character and I was interested in the show and and that was kind of all I remember about it and just feeling like, Yeah, this this,

I'm really excited about this. It's such an interesting character because to player who is coming, you know, you've got the layer of dying, You've got the layer of coming of having given up your child for adoption and never seen her for years and years And I mean, how old Peyton were you? Seven? Hillary was Peyton when? You know? When when Ellie it was at birth? Right? Like you're right,

you right? Okay, um, and then you're you're you've come back, but you're still kind of aloof and don't like totally wanna. It's like you want to be in her life, but as soon as Peyton reaches out, you're like, I don't get too close. It's so interesting and so many layers to play. Um, what do you remember about that and what were your challenges there? M hm, Well, I you know, it's it. I remember just feeling so grateful for our connection.

You know I loved you right away. That's how I felt, of just like, Okay, this is great, I can I can anchor into this relationship and all the complexities here and just feeling that instant you know, that's always such a gift to just have that instant chemistry and um. You know it's before, before I became a mother, my memories about my work experiences were about my work experience.

And after I became a mother, my memories about my work experience changed to, um, what were the complexities of life going on behind the scenes of the work experience, the traveling back and forth, the times that my son got to come visit UM while I was there working. Uh, you know, those are the things that it becomes more

about what was going on in life. Um. And also just also where UM I remember just that I did feel very grateful for the complexities of the character that as a as a as a woman, and as an actress, just always trying to find um parts that were multifaceted. You know that that part of it, I really appreciate it. And and everyone was so nice there you all, you know that everyone was like you showed up. It was like the cool girls here, Oh, my god, she's so cool.

I remember I remember one time a hurricane was coming when I was trying to figure out how to fly home, and I remember just sitting there watching in like the restaurant bar or something in the city, watching going as the hurricane is coming in on the news, which probably the hurricane parties. So did you always know that Ellie was going to die? They were always like, yes, yeah,

this is really because see I didn't ryl. I didn't and they kind of like led me on to be like, oh, you've had to kiss all the boys on the show already. You know, like this is gonna be your new trajectory. You get to go do this other thing. And so then when you sorry spoiler alert for anybody who's watching along with us caught up. When Ellie dies, I was despondent,

like like no one could talk sense. And to me they were like, Hillary, it's okay, And I'm like, but she's going to come back from the dead, right, like maybe she's got a sister on this show too. How do we get Cheryl back? Um? And that's interesting that we never never told me. Someone said don't say anything,

or um, wow, yeah, I was ready for you. To stay forever and ever, and then eventually we meet Peyton's birth father, John Doe, who is from the band X, the punk band out in l A. And I just feel like it's such a missed opportunity that our parents, like my parents, were never in the same place at the same time. Sofia, did your parents ever really get into the same place at the same time? Did your

dad ever arrive? Yes, the Brooks dad. So you know, we get Daphnie Um playing my mom playing Victoria in season five, so you got to do Overla, Gary Harrison, Robert Davis Jr. Who went by Ted. I've never understood why Ted is a nickname for Robert, but someone can explain to us. At another time was played by a lovely actor, Richard Bergie. Hillary, you didn't get to meet him, kiss, I had a crush on Oh, you would have had such a crush on Richard. He's such a dream book him.

Him and Gregory Harrison they played Julian's dad's and I was like, we won the dad Jack pop, What is going on here? That sent me back to soap opera days because I was the two of them, that's what all. And I was just going to stare at you. I'm I'm looking at my telephone right now. And god, what a lovely man. And he and he and Daphne played off of each other deliciously. Their chemistry was so great and the three of us just had a ball. I really wish we'd had him on the show before the

last season because he was wonderful. Cheryl. We have gotten a lot of closure and redemption and also like a lot of fun by doing this like podcast reboot rewatch situation. But you guys did that with Twin Peaks years ago, Like you guys all got together again. How many years after the original show to do this reboot? Um, Well it was almost twenty five years. Amazing, twenty five years? Wait was it on this twenty minutes? Wait a minute?

Were like mad is dumb? And I think that we did season three around um six years ago or seven years ago? And I was you guys did did? And I was like and it was like two when we did five years? How is getting that call? Who? What call? Or like, how did that go down? Well? It was you know, there's been rumors for decades that we were going to do UM seasons and we knew that was not going to happen. So I didn't pay any attention to the rumors, and so then um, these rumors started

happening that seemed to not kind of quiet. It's like the wave of the rumor just kept getting bigger. Finally, one of the castmates reached out to me and said, you know this is real. That's that There's no way. So I sent it David an email and asked, is this this is real? And did he answer? Did he send back like a coded message or something weird? I feel like he'st like a hot air balloon or something.

It was a little bit cryptic, it was. It was a little bit mysterious, yes, but not really any just more to come, dude. So what was your experience shooting in Wilmington's um before. I've been there so many times before that if you're familiar going back or or was it? I loved working so much um So I had stayed. I can't even remember the jobs that I did there. They were independent films. I had stayed once in one of those beach houses. Yeah, it's amazing and um and

then also downtown. So I loved that feeling of that. UM. I felt like creatively it really fed the work, whatever the work that I was doing was, I found it to be. Um. I really enjoyed it creatively. You know, there's history there, there's a lot of interesting different parts to that place. It's a really artistic town too, there's so much theater, so many fine arts, communities and music. Yeah. I love act and just the feeling of the sort

of smaller city feeling that was really nice to be in. Well, and there's a there's a weirdness to Wilmington's you know, there's kind of like a because it's such a haunted city, there's like a little bit of like a cryptic feel to it. And Ellie is kind of a cryptic woman. You know, she's living in this like dilapidated Victorian home with no furniture and like a lot she doesn't even have a glass to drink out. There's like a lot of eggs carton like this will do. There's like roaches

everywhere and high glass no but it um. You know, there's an edge to this character that I think was great because so often women are portrayed as martyrs if they're playing mothers, you know, everyone wants the martyr, and Ellie's just like no, I I chose a fun life. Yeah, I made the choice that was right for me, Like I'm not going to apologize for it, you know, which was great and kind of revolutionary at the time. Um yeah, how did you put it together at a time where

not everyone was doing that? Well? I feel like they they, the writers did the work, do you know what I mean? That that was there and so to really just um, unfortunately, I had known many women in my life who didn't just follow um the supposed to us or or you know, and so I had references, you know, personal references that I could draw from, and that um, that kind of directness and just inner knowing and um, just that kind

that life experience. There's something I don't think the writers did though they didn't to me, Elisa of Eli's behavior was really contrasting, you know, showing up and wanting to be a part of Peyton's life and begging to be a part of it, and then when Peyton comes to find her, pushing her away and then coming back, and

that the push and pull. It's that's just on the page and making it believable, creating a character that you had to justify that behavior for you so that you could empathize with her and then play you know, play her. That's that's not anything the writers did, that's you. And I'm interested to know how you justified all that behavior for her in order to make her someone that we didn't hate like we loved her. We we empathized along with her as well, even though she was feeling all

these complicated things. Yeah, and now I look at the way she treated her daughter, and I'm like, wow, that's intense. I remember hearing, uh, you know from one of my acting teachers at a very young age that if you can find the love under all that right that if it's if it's because of the love underneath it, then um, it's then I could find as a mother away to

justify it. If that makes sense. Yeah. Everybody just sort of does what they think is best, and usually you, I can understand how you would be doing those things thinking that it's best for Peyton and thinking that you're willing to hurt yourself for the sake of her, even though she doesn't understand. Yeah, that's kind of what I

was getting from Ellie anyway. So of all the storylines that Peyton had to do, the one that I get the most fans feedback from is this one because there there are a number of people out there who have lost a parent to cancer, and this storyline, as messy as it is, you know, as like back and forth as it is, as conflicted as it is, UM has

been cathartic for a lot of people. And I feel like when I saw you at the convention, you mentioned that people come up and or have talked to you about it and been like, thank you so much for doing this storyline. Has that been your experience often? Yeah?

If if I'm ever recognized for this, it is usually with someone who has experience with cancer UM, you know, And I wish there were more stories out there about UM, this for children and parents, and you know, I feel like that's part of as storytellers, that's part of our responsibility is to really keep UM bringing bringing these stories into the into the awareness for healing and from the conversation and UM so people feel seen and known and

there's something somebody else is going through this too. I'm not alone. Yes, we don't think about like how old we were doing this. You don't think about it on the day, but then like all these years later, you realize you're providing other people with the language and with the framework to deal with it in real life, because if you don't have the right words, you know, if you don't have an example of like a person whether they be real or fictional, living past a bad situation

like this, you don't know what it looks like. But if you can watch it and visualize it and be like, oh, no, we've lost this carrot dir and then life moves on as it does, but it is changed, you know, to give people a safe place to witness grief, I think can also be very transformational because when you go through loss, it's so personal. It's often very private. When you're grieving, you tend to stay home. It's insular, and so it's not something in our society we've been able to witness

a lot of it's very private and personal. And hearing about the ways in which a storyline like this one for an audience can model how hard it will be to lose somebody, but also that they will remain with you in ways that you will carry on a project that you began with them before they died, as Peyton does, that that you will honor them in parts of your life. And yes, you will be if you are if we are lucky enough to survive someone. And I don't mean

we're lucky that we've lost someone. I mean like we're lucky, we're alive. We're all lucky. We're alive every day. You know, if you're lucky enough to continue living your life, you can do it in a way where you carry that person with you. And and yeah, like when had we ever seen that before? We got to see you guys do it in a storyline. It was beautiful, um that

I I was. I was so sad when he left and then I left the show and hooked up with Jeff and then the first job he does right when I gave birth to us, like Gus was like two months old. He's like, oh my bluddy, Cheryl's doing this movie with me. I was like, Cheryl, who you don't know? Or Sheryl Lee And I'm like, she's my mother. But you guys have known each other like forever. And that

was such a weird. It was the universe's way of being like Hillary, you didn't misread the connection, Like this is someone who is absolutely like supposed to be in your world. It's good to love her. I was so happy that you guys just like randomly were in this movie together. But again, you were playing like a bad girl. Is that your stick? Does everyone cast you to play like a drunkie pants? Or I die? Yeah? I was doing the other day how many times I had died?

I die all the time? To Cheryl, you do everything I'm in, they kill me off. I'm like, what is it? Do you hate me? Or am I just like so lovely that to kill me is so tragic the second one. But I'm gonna break everybody's heart of dying always. Yeah, haven't you done like a vampire movie? Yeah? God, I the life sucked out of me. Yeah, what about you? Let's talk about that. What's been your favorite on screen death? Of all the things that you've passed in, what's been

the winner? You know? I mean it kind of probably is Twin Peaks, but it wasn't that. It was probably more just the um experience of being able to you know that that first scene being found on the beach wrapped in plastic. I didn't have any lines, thank god, because I was so nervous and I didn't know anything about filmmaking or television or anything, and so I got to just lay there like a little sponge and soak it all up. So yeah, taped up in my plastic.

But Matt Hillary's question is that sort of your your typical go to people cast you is the bad girl a lot? And is there anything that you're still just like dying to do? Um? Well, no one thinks. I mean, I've never I don't think I've ever done a comedy. I don't think I've ever really, I mean, unless it would be maybe be a really really dark it's a dark comedy. Yeah, yeah, and I would love to do

you know, I played a vampire at one point. But I would also love to do something really kind of fantasy, like like oh yeah, me too, write like Lord of the Rings, like pans Labyrinth, like something really weird. Should we all do the Witches of east Wick? Is that what this podcast is really about? Girl? Let's just leave

witches hello as long as we can fly. Yeah. I like reading about Appellation witches because what they would do is at night they would shape shift and then they turn men into horses and ride them all night long around the countryside. So when these men woke up, they would like couldn't go to work. They had the vapors. I've been written by a witch all night and I'm just like, I feel like this is a lot of innuendo. We're gonna We're gonna be some creepy which is Cheryl.

I can't wait. Somebody give us some money. Yeah, One Tree Hill twenty five years later, just like Twin Peaks is now a supernatural experience. What do we have? What do we have seven years to go or something we can We'll figure it out. I'm all for it. Um, Sryl. The only thing that I took from the show when I left was Ellie's leather jacket. It is my prize possession. Oh, I keep it in a safe space. My son steals all my coats because he's my size now, and I'm

just like, don't touch that one. That's that's the special one. Um. But I hope I get to see you in real life soon. Um. We've got more conventions and stuff coming up. But you're such an important part of this show, and you were really, really really important part of my time on the show, and you know that well. I am very very grateful to have been a part of the show. And it just warms my heart to see all your beautiful faces and smiles and congratulations on everything you're doing,

and just tons and tons of love and gratitude. We need to do a mommy daughter trip with all of our mothers from the show and all the girls from the show. God, Yes, Best Armstrong, Schery, Lee, Daphne's Uniga. Let's go to Moira and Barbara and let's hit the road. Let's hit the bar Oh. We love seeing you. Thank you so much for coming so much, Cheryl, thank you all so much. I love her. I've got no childhood dream come true. No, that she's amazing. I can't believe

you held your tears back. That was even still, Like, she just makes me. It's not that I'm nervous. It's not that I'm nervous. It's that I just get like giddy about her and geek out so hard because I get it. Oh, I wanted to keep her so bad.

If we've gotten to keep Cheryl, oh my god. But it's probably wouldn't have packed the same punch though, you know, it's so great, Like she was so iconic because the way she came in and I mean this character was so iconic because she came in and went out so quickly and made such a huge impact, and only somebody Cheryl's caliber and talent could have been able to handle

that and make that happen well. And now I look at the part that she played and the fact that she was able to be like a mother and work out of talent on location, and I'm just like, when do I get to start playing Ellie's Like, who's going to call me to play the Ellie Harp character? In what? I mean? I don't even know what teenage shows are on right now. Yeah, that makes me sound like a grandma.

I'm like one of the kids watching these days. But yeah, those are the parts that are really fun as a mom to go in and like put the leather leather bracelet on in the cool concert t and you're not in the school pickup line for a couple of days, and you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm cool. I remember how

to be cool. She's so freaking cool. It was interesting to me too that like, as as we are wondering again not perhaps inappropriately, but like we're learning things as bold women and we don't love this, um see saw that's happening with Lucas and Peyton and Lucas and Brooke. I forgot that in this episode, Brooke is upset that she's not hearing from Lucas all day and Haley's not hearing from Nathan at all, and that misdirect was gold when you're like, well, make a boy, what would make

a boy just leave a girl after a night? And I was like this comment, this is actually in an episode the same but not admitting, not knowing that the other person was going through the exact same thing. And then we were both angry and trying to solve our

own problems without each other. I loved it. I also loved that at the end of the episode when Nathan comes to the door, like there was something vulnerable on James's face and I saw you see it and know that you had been sort of making up a story that wasn't true all day and you just welcomed him in, and and and the familiarity between those two, between Nathan and Haley makes it work wordlessly. Well, that's it. There's

no misdirect there. He just I wanted to spend some time with you, or can I hang out with your relief instead of Lucas, Who's like I got a thing to do with you, you know, like, yeah, yeah, girls take a lesson misdirect not it's I mean, not to be men take a lesson. This is what I'm saying, Like men in cafe's like you're direct, but not be direct. Doing Nathan, Nathan, Nathan. That's really the point, guys being Nathan. I also loved in the ways that everyone's love story

is a little messy right now. I love the love story of Peyton and Ellie and Peyton trying to find a way to talk to her, and and Hillary, you did it so beautifully because you can tell that you don't really want to be totally vulnerable, so you make

it about work. But then like you're hanging out and you're learning about the record she loves, and she's talking about T shirts and like your mom might give you a T shirt from The Beautiful Got Me in real life, Like that's my love language when someone gives me a thing that's theirs and it's not like a new thing, you know, and you both have done it. You both have given me things that you're just like, oh, do you want this thing? And I'm like, uh, yes, I do.

And there's um there's kind of that like thrist Store quality to it, where it's like this has collected a narrative before it's come to me, and the idea that Peyton is going to get these records of these T shirts from this woman to create an intimacy is you know, HiT's a little close to home. But I also so much of our show is about whatever boy you're dating, and it's just me. It meant so much to me

to have a storyline that wasn't about a dude. Yeah, I think it meant a lot to our audience as well, because that's not it's not literally everything everybody thinks about all the time. Like, yes, when you're young and hormonal, you know, you're romantic interests are at the forefront of

your mind most of the time. But there are a lot of people, a lot of people have problems with their family and their siblings and and with their parents and how they're doing their school, and that can be that can take over at any moment, and it was really really a relief to see that represented with um with Peyton and Ellie. You know what's interesting you're saying that I remember and I wrote it down in my

notes when we started watching this episode. There there's some stuff for the comedy that they gave Brook that made me laugh, but it was so cringe e. They would they would sometimes push me into these directions where I, as Sophia, would feel like they were they wanted Brooke to be mean or really tone deaf or like over the top. And it was very interesting because I remember feeling then like Brooks finally launching her company and now she's just going to be awful to everyone. And now

I was like so self conscious about it. But it's like, Okay, this is what you've written for me, and I'm going to commit and I'm I'm going to try my best, and I'm gonna put her paranoia about losing her chance underneath it and try to humanize it. And watching it, for some reason, now with with like distance, I could hear it in a different way, and I was like, I was like, oh, they wanted Brooke to be like the worst version of herself, the cheerleader that Faith is

talking to Lucas about. So she was like, He's like, you know, I'm not defending who Brooke was, I'm defending who she is. And then it comes in and she's like a banshee screaming and everyone like running a sweatshop. I was like, oh, my god, there's children, children, children. But now I can see the comedic device in a way that at the time I was like, why she got to be mean when she's finally doing something for herself.

So it's interesting. I loved it not just for the comedic device, but also because again, characters have to have flaws and to be able to see Brooke at her worst, falling being a mess, falling apart, like we said, messy, messy Brook and a big lovable mess. And then the second that Hayley's like, hey, stop it, you're being a huge bitch. Be nice to people. Everybody here is busting their asses for you. And Brooke turns on a dime and she says, you're right. There's a lot of people

out there who don't. They get defensive, you know, it's like it takes days or weeks or years before they're leaving admit that they're wrong. And Brooke is like, oh my god, you're right, and she turns immediately because she's not afraid. She's not afraid of being wrong. That's kind of what's great about living a messy life, right, She's not afraid of being wrong. It's a good example of

female friendship. Where you can haul your friend out on something and it's not a fight that ends the relationship. We've talked about that a number of times, where when someone tells you the truth, you realize, oh, you really love and respect me. And that's example. Thank you. Would way rather watch somebody who's being a huge, huge ass sut go, oh my god, I'm being such an asshole right now. I'm so sorry, everybody, I'm really sorry. That's great.

You know, it's like we're only human, that's the what else can we expect? Much rather watch that than somebody who's just like a jerk for no reason and then never admits they're wrong. Dan Scott, Dan Scott Scott. How about Dan walking into Haley and Nate bedroom that was picking up for a second, picking up her bra, that picking up a teenage girls bra and talking about a one night stand. It's like it wasn't sexual. It's all power for him. It's like it has nothing to do

with him trying to be like a creepy pervy. He wasn't being pervy. He was being his normal power hungry self and in any way that he could diminish someone else and make them feel insecure and humiliated. That's what the picking up the bra was. But regardless, it's still disgusting. And then to say at least Peyton was pleasant and the more in just to remind you so gross. It's petty in a way that like, no, no adult should be this petty and stealing the note like he swepes

Nathan's handwritten note to her what are you seven? Yeah? Yeah, I need Dan to like. I liked it when Dan and Karen got flirty in future episodes because Dan without that glimmer of redemption is a tough pill to swallow. But Dan, if I if I'm always on the verge of being like, mmm, it's just a more fun Dan to me? Could I kiss him? Could I have an hour long lunch with him before finding out he's engaged? Honestly, Honestly, you went on a lunch date with Dan Scott, that's

what happened to you. Joy, Oh my god, Joy, it's so frustrating. He was so nice and handsome and sweet and he's running. I will never get over a grown ass man texting you. Well, if I had a nickel for every time I got hit on by a woman X, I wouldn't have to use me wasn't like, I think knowing this guy's tone, he was like, whatever, if I had a nickel, I thought it was blah blah blah.

Like I think that's what he was going for. But it's just like, I hope he read it back after he sent it and was like, yeah, that didn't read very much. Yeah, I really hope he made himself feel queasy because he made me feel sick to my stomach. He's like in bed with babe, Babe, look at this text. This looks weird. This girl, and I think she got the wrong idea. It's like she thought I asked her out or something because I asked her to have a

meal with me. Idiot. No, guys, I'm just not enlightened enough. I'm not enlightened enough to it too. When we talked about gasoline on yourself and just light it on fire him, now we talk about Tree Hill voters and how it's possible that Dan Scott was able to charm a town into not understanding his associate path. This is what I'm going to envision, like in line at lunch asking pretty girls to sit with him and then be like, why

did you misinterpret this? What's your problem? I'm just trying to get my constituents y. Yeah, um, do we need to spin a wheel, ladies, Yes, we sure do. Let's spin that wheel. Yeah. Okay, we got a most likely too great regift, something gifted to them. M mmm, I mean okay. On the show, Dan Scott, I feel like, you know how teachers always get the gifts at the end of the year, Like, how many mugs does a teacher really need? You know? Is the kind of guy

that's just like, here, take this thing. I think it's hailing really, oh my god, dude, tell it's I think it's like the one. It's it's like a something she could get away with. That's not wrong. It's just to mind what I mean. It's just flight like and it's like nobody's going to know, and she can just like slightly pass it on. No baky, Well, actually, isn't it broke in this episode that gives away all her c ds and she's like, that's a really nice thing to do with my with my CDs. You know, I can

see Brook doing it majorly. I will say I have a I have a theory, perhaps controversial, but in the spirit of defending ree gifting every so often I've been given something that I'm like, this is lovely. I don't like to waste stuff. I like I take things to Goodwill and you know Salvation Army so regularly. But I have on occasion been given something and I'm just like, this looks exactly like Jenny or oh my god, you

know who would love this? My friend Jed. Like I've just been given something that I don't actually need or that like I might have one, but one of my friends really wants one. And then I'm like, I mean, I'm not gonna give it to them for their birthday. That feels weird, but like on a random Tuesday, they're not going to wrap it? Is that the deal? As long as you don't wrap a ree gifts, because then I think it's like you won't believe this thing I got.

I knew you wanted one here, and it's just like, well that's nice. I'm not mad. I think we need to buy less stuff, but yeah, destigmatized. Yeah, essentially, it's how I feel about Vintage. I pay to regift someone else to stuff TOLF like anyway, in real life, that's my theory. That's my theory. Than thank you guys for joining us um, we will see you next week for episode three eleven eleven more drama. Looks like maybe there's uh some storylines actually going to start happening now that

they built all the bridges they needed to build. No more flashbacks. Yeah, the next episode is called Return of the Future, so like maybe we get real time TV back. I don't know. Sorry guys, See you guys later, See you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We are all about that high school drama.

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