Turtlenecks • EP111

is the living here. That's why. Okay, the Eagles maybe John Medley. Okay, anyway, listen, here's what happens in this episode. Um. In this episode, unable to cope with the pressure from Dan, Nathan quits the basketball team, while Peyton enjoys having her dad home, Danny Danny, and we get to meet her dad for the first time, which was such a nice introduction of a new parent to the scenario. Um And I wish we'd gotten to see more of him. This lovely actor Thomas and Griffith. Yeah, I mean, I had

to three very good actors playing father figures. To me, there's Thomas I Griffith here, and then Kevin Kilner came in to play the character later, and then John Doe played my birth dad years later. Um but in this first introduction of Peyton's dad, uh, the character's name was not originally Larry. The character's name was originally Glenn. But I was living above that Glenn, the scary guy. Scary

guy would stare at you girls. I had so many creepy nights with Glenn were like I would go out on my patio and our patios are right next to each other, and he'd just be like, you alone over there, you know, and I'd like, just broken up with my boyfriend, was like living alone, and it was It was the first time I really kind of had to navigate that myself.

And you know, I'm that person that's been watching Dateline like forever and like before that unsolved mysteries that things so and like SPU Marathon's on something, Oh my god, Oh my god, yes, and so worst case scenario was always like on my mind. But this dude named Glenn that lived next to me had creeped me out enough that when I got the script, I immediately went to our bosses, and I was like, guys, he's going to think it's a sign. He's gonna think I'm like communicating

with him. I want to change the name. Um. And they're like, uh, okay, we don't care, you know, like what do you want to change it to? And my childhood love, like the boy I loved from kindergarten through freshman year in high school was Larry Eppard. He has since married one of my other great loves, Sarah Seene, who we cheered with, and I, you know, like I guess they hadn't gotten married yet, but they had been

together since we were in high school. And I was like, Larry is a safe person, like Larry is when I love. It's a name I can say with like affection, like I love you, Larry. Did you tell the show? Did you tell them that the writers that? Yeah. I was like, it's my childhood love. It's the person who I trust so so much, you know. It was just a name that did sound like a like strong dad energy, Like there's not a lot of kids walking around named Larry, Like we were going to run into a Larry at

trial high school. Um. So they're like sure, but that is how that's how dad got his name. But yeah, to Joy's point, I had been told, did you guys hear this? I did now that once you said it, I had like echoes in my memory of something. They recast my dad because they thought that we had so much flirty energy. And when I when we were in the thick of it back in like two thousand three, I just kind of took their word for it. And now that I'm watching it back, I'm like, I don't

see it. I don't. I don't see it at all. I see so much like tenderness, but it doesn't feel like it has a chemistry. It feels really authentic and the affection feels real. And he definitely does not, I mean to me anyway, appear to be flirting with you. No. No, he likes it. A really nice job, a beautiful job. Poor Thomas. He's on Cobra Kai now, so he was like the bad guy from Karate Kid and they're bringing it back on a Cobra Kai now. So I hope he's out there kicking ass um. I think we had

a good three episode run with him. It's hard bringing in a new parent character and having to see these characters that have been really independent now all of a sudden, like, oh shucks, daddy, it felt weird to say, daddy, that felt weird for Peyton, Yeah, I could see, Yeah, I can see that. I loved it though. I loved watching the way you guys played your scenes, and I I love seeing that that sort of youthful innocence in her because she does always have to be a grown up.

And like he comes home and you know you, you really seem like a sweet kid. And we weren't flirty. I'll tell you it's flirty today in this episode was broke. That was a lot of flirtiness but also vulnerable. But then yeah, I mean it went to a really vulnerable place, which I loved. I loved that arc for you. But yeah, that was that was tough. We were all kind of

cringing at that hot tup scene. That was way to start. Yeah, I mean that that was the scene that led to my you know, first ever screaming fight with my bosses. And I did what I said I was going to do, which was when we came to work for the next scene wearing a turtlenext so girl, I was like, watch me, this is completely inappropriate and I will continue to wear. I will wear a dirt on that forever is the title of this episode, Pasties and Turtle, because honestly it

should be. It be. You could have had the same effect with all of your scenes, whether it's like from last episode where you're taking the polaroids to this episode where you're on zipping your pants and stuff. You could have gotten the same effect without turning it up to eleven every time. Yeah, you know, it was like somebody read a perfectly good script and was like, you know what we need is more cow bell. It's like coll Honestly,

they were like ring the bell child. I will say though, like it made me so happy to finally get to a point with her in this episode where all of that gets taken away, you know, like the cracking, the joke being like I'm gonna borrow this pollar in case he's feeling frisky, like all those gross one liners. We get to this point where she's she keeps saying like I feel uncomfortable, I feel scared, I feel like I'm

not enough, I feel like I'm not being chosen. I I feel afraid, and and it and those scenes grow in intensity, and when she finally gets to say I don't feel like I feel like we're both being played, which honestly is true. She's so right, She's like, he's literally he's dating us both. It's weird. But by the end when she gets to sit and be really vulnerable, and I kind of feel like it's the foreshadowing for years later when she finally admits that she's terrified she's

not enough. Oh, when she's like, I need you to need me. This is the beginning of that, the beginning of this girl saying I don't feel like I am as valuable. I'm scared you're not going to pick me. I'm scared you don't really want me for anything other than you know, or you have to supplement me with someone else, which is a terrible feeling, you know where

It's like, like, Brooke Davis is enough. I think our fan base, you know, could like perfectly express that, um, but to know, like, oh, you have to go and hang out with a whole other person because you're not stimulated talking to me, or you're not you know whatever. I I got nervous watching this. I was like, oh,

is Peyton gas lighting Brook? I mean, like, you're fine, everything's fine, Everything's fine, and I think I think no, and maybe that's just me being defensive of Peyton, like I think she genuinely wanted you to feel like, no, baby, this is your win, this is your win. But Lucas for sure, gaslight sir, Like Lucas for sure is like what are you talking about? But you know, you know what I actually see for Peyton, and I have such a heart for it. I see a friend really trying

to do her best. I think in that scene where you're like, no, you're good and you're enough, he's choosing you. I think the reason you leave is because you can't keep going, Like what a weird moment to leave a person. But I think you leave because you're doing your best to be her friend. And in the last episode when you know, when you left the cafe at open mic night because seeing us was hard and I run after you. The sort of like missed connection that these girls are

having of like, don't feel like a third wheel. You're my best friend, You're more important to me than him, and you're like it's the third wheel thing, Like Peyton is picking Brook. She's saying, you're my best friend. I choose you over this, and it I don't know it is. It is a love story, and I think when you're I have a lot of like, oh baby girl, tenderness for Peyton in this position, because what a nightmarish spot to be in. And are just kids who don't know

how to explain the totality of their feelings to each other. Well, I like that Haley is expressing her feeling this in this episode of Loyalty to Nathan through booze and skip in school. But honestly, it didn't make me cringe at all. I love this. It was like, you go, Haley goes wild. We're all like kids. M Why does Haley keep ending up with these hats? Oh my god? At this point, they're just screwing with you baby. Yeah, that was That was the most hideous thing I've ever seen in my life.

That was worse than the penis hat. You're saying, you don't want to sell that as merch. You don't want to sell Haley James like nick goober hat. Maybe that one was the penis hat and I mixed up my memories. I don't know know the other one surely looked more vallic. Yeah that's bad, um, But I do remember that was the first time I ever had to throw up on anybody camera. And they gave me this cup full of like a little like a banana smoothie, and I had to take a sip of it right before I got

in the car and hold it in my mouth. Yeah until the shot. So you just sit there like acting normal, and then you have to pretend like something's coming up and then you throw it up. Um and Paul, I know, I just had never thrown up in anybody's lap. I'd throw up in his lab. Crazy. They didn't done that multiple time. Um. He was a great sport about it. I wish we had him on right now to talk about it, but we'll ask him when we when we see him. Um. But that was a fun day. It

was a fun episode. And we went out to the beach and um that house was so gorgeous, dance beach house. Um, and it was fun to be James and I had fun. I think I just remember being outside. He and I hadn't gotten to do a lot of stuff, just the two of us out on a location. We usually were on stage somewhere, so that might have been the first time it was just the two of us on location somewhere. Has there been another scene that is it the first time we're on the beach might have been. It feels

like it. Tree Hill was this kind of like nondescript town in the middle of nowhere, and then they realized, like, oh god, we've got this gorgeous ocean right there, let's use that. But yeah, I feel like the beach kind of belonged to you too. You know, we'd see the distance at the party, but we hadn't been out there, had we. I don't know. I don't think so. So it was a really it was a gorgeous house. It was a beautiful day. I had on that stupid hat and I got to play drunk, which was so fun.

So here's the secrets of playing drunk for all you actors out there, um, which I hope I did a good job so that you actually want to take this advice. But the secret to playing drunk is play sober. So whatever you whatever you think you would do to act sober, like intentionally like I am acting, I am I'm going to put this down, I'm going to sit down here and I'm going to be fine. I am fine, I'm fine,

I'm fine. That actually is always the thing I do when I have to think them is I literally like, I get a little like this, I kind of give myself a sway and then I say and forth, I'm fine, I'm fine, And it puts me right there where I'm like the sense memory comes back, the spins so difficulty opening your eyes. Yeah, that went. But what I like about this episode is that we see Haley and Nathan who have nothing in common, and we see Brooke and Lucas who have nothing in common, and these two couples

are trying to navigate like how do we connect? And because Haley and Nathan talk so much and they talk about therapy and you know, they really like dig into the meat of a relationship. They're getting there, you know, whereas Brook and Lucas are like, she's begging him. She's like, I want to connect. I want to connect. I want to connect, and he's like, let me put my tie in your mouth. That's how every conversation ends. He's like, sure, baby,

you got it. It's like, yeah, let's kiss. Yeah exactly. Well, And one of the things I love so much too, as we look at the difference between the two that moment. As fun as it was to watch Nathan and Haley skip school and have these little adventurers. I'm like, you know, get teenage wild. I loved when he came to her and said, essentially like I don't want you to change for me. I like you, And he says, I like

that a person like you see something in me. And the energy that James brought to that scene, at least for me as a viewer, was it felt like he was saying to her, you make me want to change for the better. I don't want you to change ange to like ditch class. But it was good for her. Though it was good for it was good for her, But I just I loved that he rather than leaning into it and being like, let's just keep you know partying,

was like, no, but you, I like you. Did you ever do a bad thing for a boy in high school? What was the worst thing that you did? I don't know. I was I was a pretty tame kid. Oh I know what I did a lie. I had a boyfriend who was real bad. We've talked about him, and uh, he snuck out of school and went home and like had lunch and then drank a beer and then came

back to school. And the English teacher smelled beer on him, and so he got sent to the principal's office and they didn't have a breathalyzer at the high school, and they were like, you have been drinking. And he's like, what are you talking about. They're like, you've been drinking and he said, no, I have not. I did go home. I did. I'll admit that. I skipped school and I

went home and I had leftovers from last night. I went to outback steakhouse with the Burtons last night because we had gone out to dinner and my parents had had him like join us, but he didn't get like beer soaked pizza, you know, like what what smells like beer? The next day and so they called me into the office and they're like is this story true? And I had to be like, oh yeah, for sure, it's the

leftover outback steakhouse. That's what you're smelling. Friends. And it was traumatic because I was like student government and like, you know, super good. That's hilarious, though, Hill did so, did you ever do anything in high school that was like bad for a boy? Yeah? Oh man, well, oh I remember my junior year in high school, my friend's parents were going out of town the weekend of prom, which I'm like, parent plans back planned it, like you

set us up. And because I was like, you know, a pretty type a responsible kid, I remember her parents being like, well the two of you were in charge, and I was like, I'm not I'm not in this family, but okay, UM, like sure, because I think the idea was, you know, we know nine times out of ten, like you know, Sophie is the designated driver. If there's like house parts had a checklist, she's like turning porch lights on.

I got wild from time to time, but I was generally too scared, and so I think they were kind of like, you'll make sure things don't get out of hand. And we had some friends, uh that liked to be out of hand. And what was supposed to be like twenty people having an after prom party turned into like a hundred and fifty people at the house. It was a rager, was insane and too many people. You were like Lindsay Lohan and mean girls. No, it was on. It felt like a movie like it was so crazy.

There were so many people, and I remember just being like, what are we gonna do and like trying to manage stuff, but also you know, trying to make sure. I don't know, I didn't want to, like I didn't want to be like a you know, a um, and yeah, things just got so wonky safe, thank god, but I was terrified. I could just picture like looking in the bathrooms to make sure there's still enough toilet paper for everyone. Yeah.

I was like, I was like, oh, you need a bottle opener here, you need a little over here, like whatever. I remember one of this guy who a girl at my school was dating, was like showing us something and I didn't want I was like, cool, like I don't know what that is. And literally years later, when I was in college, the first time I ever saw a person and roll a joint, I was like, oh my god, he was smoking marijuana. Like I was such a dork. I just didn't know. And so, um, I remember going.

I went to sleep that night and like there were obviously not enough beds for everyone, and I slept in a bed with my boyfriend. And it turned into this like massive scandalous like because of course we got caught. We all got caught. Um, we tried to lie. It didn't go well. That's what I did. I lied. I lied to my friend's parents. Because I tried to say only a couple of people came, and then they invited other people and then, which was true, but we were like, ah,

and I don't know why we said this. We were like everyone was out by one am, we swear, And my friend's dad holds up a photo like this and goes, so, why does the clock behind this guy opening a beer in my kitchen say four thirty? And we were like, and then somebody had taken a picture of my high school sweetheart and I asleep in a bed together. But they did it because the joke was this poor guy's

been dating Sophia for three years. Like yeah, everyone was like oh and and so then it turned into this thing where like weirdly parents like the parents were like, what did you do? And I was like, I slept, Yes, I was sleeping, what are you talking about? And man, it was a whole it was like a whole big thing. Luckily, he has the loveliest family and his parents were just like the fact that you kim give us a break. Y'all were fine, Um, but I definitely felt bad because

I lied. I lied to my friend's parents about the time. But that was really not that wasn't for a boy so much as just for us because we were trying to not get grounded until we graduated. The lion man. Uh No, I was pretty good. I mean no, I can't think of any thing I did bad for a boy.

I really like. No, that was that was really annoyed me and my best friend at the time, who was totally in love with in high school, who was a boy, was also a good kids so you know, he was like upstanding young man citizens was trying to do the right thing. Um No I do. I don't know why this is coming to mind because it's not really on topic, but I'll tell you anyway. I remember, um because I

guess it's a misunderstanding I did. I did feel like because I it's because I'm an artist or a theater kid. I told you, like I would change in the backseat of a car, whether it was a boy or girl driving like whatever, I would have Like, I just was used to dance in theater, and you just I was very comfortable with my body, um, but not in like I wasn't trying to everybody. I just was like comfortable in my body. And by the way, it's a banging body. Joy i'd be comfortable. I was so it just but

I knew that I felt misunderstood a lot. I felt like people looked at me like I was trying to get attention with my body and that I was trying to be slutty when I wasn't. I just was like a dancer kid, theater kid. Oh you mean they were mad at you because you didn't feel insurmountable shame about time joking was a letter on her Are you going

up to his lake house? He and his family had this had this lake house, and I remember going up to it one summer and and I got there's there was a shower, um and we were kind of like, I don't know if I had just if we were. It was a bunch of kids that weekend. I think his parents maybe weren't there. And I remember I got I was taking a shower and he came into Brush's teeth and there was a big curtain. It's not like we could see each other, but and we were very

very close, like besties, like since we were thirteen. So this was a very Lucas Haley relationship, except that I was desperately in love with him. It's okay, it all worked out. But I was in the shower and I don't know if you guys do this when when you turn on the hot water again, being like a tactile person and being in touch with my body, I just sit there under the heat and I'm like and I'm just like, you know, let my I let it all.

And then I'm a singer and I'm vocal, and so I'm sitting in this shower and he's brushing his teeth and I'm in this steaming shower going and he just goes and he just like he stops the water and he's like, what are you doing? Oh god? I didn't even clock that. But it wasn't like he was turned on it, but he was like mad at me for trying would do. I was like nothing, I'm I'm just I'm taking the shower. Oh god, oh no, no I'm not. And he was like whatever, joy and then brings his

mouth and walked out of the bathroom. He was mad at me, and I just don't like, I could never have said anything to convince him that I was not like trying to turn him on and get him. When all those herbal Essence commercials were out, remember the herble Essence commercials. It was like the woman moaning in the showers's son some uncomfortable. You guys, I'm so red, let it go, let it go out in the bathroom, are supreme. So yeah, I read too. I'm starting just even thinking

about it. I'm I'm horrifying embarrassing moments from I just realized, you guys, I need to say this. So we threw this party that got out of hand after I'm so upset and and we got caught, and it was so sad, and my mom really did me a solid and was like, I tell your father he's going to kill you, which honestly doesn't make sense. My dad's like a very sensitive artist.

I don't think that would have happened. But my mom goes, I'm going to tell your dad, I found a packet of cigarettes in your car and that's why you're grounded for three weeks. And so, um, dad, you should probably know that when I was a junior in high school, we threw a ranger of an after prom party and Mom and I lied to you about what. I don't think he knows. I was realizing that in real time. Um My, sweet dad, he cries every time he tells

me he's proud of me. Probably wouldn't have flipped out. Um, but I I was today years old when I realized I saw how a secret from him cigarettes my mom. I was like, what, all right? Whatever my confessional moments, Um, okay, how do we get back into the show right now? My question is, Okay, So, Sophia, if your dad would have been upset about you having this party like in high school when we shot this, we're only like a couple of years out of high school. We're like, you know,

three or four years out of high school. How did your parents react all this like hot tub stuff, Like they didn't understand that. They were like, this is what is this? You know? I think it was just it was always it was uncomfortable for for them, you know, like as a kid, I don't know, I don't think any of us or anyone listening, like, you don't want to see your parents have sex. And I don't think

parents want to think about their kids having sexy. It's awkward when it comes on on a movie and you're all sitting in the room together. It's just like man and and you know, there's that probably points to the fact that as a society. We need to grow up a little bit and like get unashamed of our body's joy. Teach a class um. You know what does it real quick?

I just showed Gust the Shining where you know, like the hot naked woman in the bathtub gets out and he's been a creep and they start kissing and then her body he composes. So I just watched that with Gus and he never wants to see a naked woman. He's it, which is yeah, is going to fall apart rot um, that'll do it. Yeah, that's the only sex

scene that's acceptable is when she turns into a corpse. Well, and the irony that here we are, you know, talking about like crazy teenage behavior which we were always modeling on their show, and like everyone's flirting with everyone and they recast your dad because apparently y'all were flirting and there was no sexual energy. I don't see it. I mean, maybe it'll come up in future episodes, but I didn't clock it at all. You know who has real sexy energy?

And they have a scene in this episode and I was like, oh, man, Deb and Keith talk like when they're chatting, and he's like yes, said Nathan to talk to me. I'm just like, isn't it a little one of chemistry works? Because I do love Keith and Karen and there's a there's a no like they know each other and there's a warmth there and there's something familiar. It's tender. But there was like some kind of heat, some kind of energy between deb and Keith. I don't

know how. And interestingly, though, Craig is like a I don't want to say he's a flirty person, but he is a person who listens and he looks at you when he's talking to you, and it feels nice. And so his character like listens to the women. He listens to Debb, he listens to Karen. He wants to tell them both like you're a good mom, You're doing a good job. He says the things that you want to hear.

Lucas is copying that behavior and he's telling Brooke girl, you are great, and he's telling Peyton like your art matters, you know, Like it's I don't know how intentional it is, but it is a generational pattern that we're witnessing, except that the way Lucas is doing it is I guess the way a teenage boy would which is mimicking rather than ah, I don't know what't to help me with a vocabulary word of like he's mimicking Actually it's not

a coming from authentic place of really listening and caring. I think he's the girl. Yeah, yeah, well it seems like he wants to kiss all the girls, like, you know, the the continuation of the way he shows up for Peyton and then the way he shows up for Brooke. It makes sense to me why Brooks says, I think he's you know, when she says he's trying to have it both ways, he's like he's basically trying to date us both And when you watch it, you're like, yeah,

gud is Yeah, Yeah, for sure, he's configured. Probably the most sixteen year old thing about Lucas. You know, they like wrote the like I love books and I'm a man and I'm the man of the house and I think about things. But like ultimately, sixteen year old boys want to get down with as many girls as they can get down, you know, like it's just it's well, yeah, I think foremost juven thing about the character is the

immaturity with his emotions. Yeah, and if he didn't have that you'd probably be like this, this is not a kid nod be James Vanderbeek, you know what I mean. It's terrible for Brooke and Peyton, but it works really well, you know, for for a young boy. I like it in the show too, because it's a good contrast with where Nathan is at, having already experienced all of the stuff that Lucas is just kind of walking into waiting

into the world. Nathan's already been through all that, so now he's on this journey to self discovery, to discovering how to be a better person in the world. He's seeing Dan for who he is. He's really confused and torn in so many directions, but he's learning how to stand up for himself. I mean, I was just so in love with the character of Nathan in this episode. He really won my heart in a big way. I

was just proud of him. The way he walked away from the two parents are about who's going to give him a ride, and he's like, I'm I'm going to take care of me, you know, setting his own boundaries. It's pretty great. I loved it. I loved We were watching the episode, you guys, and it was so cute. I don't even remember what scene it was, but a scene with with with Nathan ended Enjoy You Go. I'm team Nathan Man. Love it. It was so cute. The Dan Scott I Love You only exists because of Nathan

asserting himself right. But was such a great piece of acting from Paul, and it was shot so well. What I loved, loved, loved about it is that it's super tight, so it feels like a whisper and it's over Dan's shoulder the French overs. It feels like I can't look you in the eye when I say this, and and you know, normally when you shoot a scene, it's like your master shot, which includes the whole set and all

the actors, big white shot, and then coverage coverage. You get coverage to each character for them to use that angle on Paul and do a whole camera setup for that. That's secret special. I love you. Um, it was really really good. That's good. Yeah, it's such good TV. And the way Paul chose to play it, you know, saying how much he cares about him no matter what he chooses.

He says these things and starts to cry, I mean, his his tears in his eyes and the that pregnant pause where he says all the validating things and that's already so hard for him, and it's like he almost chokes before he says I love you and he and you're right, he can't look Nathan in the eye when he does it. Oh, I mean, what a what a vulnerable place for Paul to have gone as an actor. What beautiful choices he made in that moment. Yeah, I agree,

there is such a bastard. And all the other scenes, well, I'm considering that. The scene starts, by the way, with Nathan coming in and saying, I'm really sorry for all the stuff I've been pulling and Hillary, when we watched it, you were like, he's apologizing to his abuser, and then we get to the end of the scene and we're like, oh man, Paul did really good. It's such a weird thing when you're trying to observe the characters but you're

also watching your friends be incredible actors. Yeah, Tom Tom Wright did a great job directing this episode. I especially loved the ending when we got to see everybody in their own place of kind of feeling feeling out, their own sense of loss, confusion, misplacement, um in the world, and um, you know, hoping for hope. I felt like we got a piece of all of that, which was a tone that I think had been missing a little

bit from the last few episodes. I think we kind of got away from that with all the drama, and this episode seemed to come back to the heart the core of what this show is about. It's not about the drama. It's about the people well, and the and the space for big feelings. I mean, even thinking about the fact that it opens in the therapist's office, it's like, this is going to be an episode where we really excavate what's going on with everybody and it and it

rings true through the whole thing, and it's really good. Yeah, I loved that. I want to talk about Jake Jagelski. Let's talk about all the time. I mean, Jake Jagelski is a really grounding character in this because he makes Lucas kind of cut the and he's got way bigger things going on than anyone else. You know, like having a child is such a major deal that it's like, oh, your feelings got hurt by a boy. Cool story kid,

you know. Um, I I loved working with Brian, like it's not a secret that I was just like, oh my god, he's along. Um, But to see him with these scenes with the baby in this episode and bringing her to practice, and the slow burn between Peyton and Jake, she has not like, I mean, we see like little twinkle in her eye, but Peyton has not been like what's up, whereas so many other characters in our show are just like I love you, like right away, like

the rush into relationships, like even Sophia. You were saying when in the last episode when um, when Brooke shows up and she's like, hi, boyfriend, and we're like, oh were they like yeah, fine? Uh? The slow burn with with Jake, I like, I'm slow to warm up in life.

It's good for pet. This is sort of what we were talking about in the episode that we saw where everybody was goading you and you kissed Lucas out of almost and then suddenly you guys were in a bedroom tearing each other's clothes off and he's telling you I want everything with you, I want the whole fairy tale. After like four episodes, it's just like, you know, I mean, he just met you, man, what And this feels That's

what I was saying when we were watching. I get such soul mate vibes from Jake and Peyton because he is waiting for her. He gets it, and she's she takes time and he takes time. He's got plenty of going on too, And I just feel like it was such a good match and I'm so mad that we got robbed and we didn't get to see you guys together forever. That's all I supposed to do in a different movie. There was a movie that we were supposed

to do together years ago. Really, yes, something he did and they like called to see if I could do it, and I had, like, you know, I had a toddler and Jeff was gone and I wasn't able to go do it. But Greenberg is one of those people I've gotten to work with so many of our friends doing Christmas movies, you know, like Tyler and Buckley and you know Antoine and Lee and all, you know, the whole gang that. Um, I haven't gotten to work with Brian again,

and I would like to. That's going to give me my my Peyton and Jake for life moment, and we want to see that. You know What's funny though, like when you point out how swiftly characters are, like all of it. You've changed my life. You're changed three episodes. Yeah, it's like, gee, this is a lot like pressure I love, and I guess I'm like, oh, that's that's what I relate to. Like the moment in the last episode at the open mic night when there's just that beat between

Peyton and Jake and you like look at him. I'm like, Oh, it's that's everything. And I'm like, I guess that's how I flirt. I'm like hey, and then I don't talk because I'm I'm slow to do the warm up too. I don't know. Greenberg in real life was became like a good friend in me season one because I had gone through that breakup. I was like starting to date someone knew I didn't have a car. He went car shopping with me, and like I remember, we were like

looking at mountaineers like that. He was like, well, you need is a mountaineer, Like, let's go look at Yeah. I was like sure, Mr, I'm gonna get you in my car. Cool. But then he became I had never lived in l a and so he became the person when we started to have to go out to l A for press for the show that would like show me where to eat dinner and like where to go and you know that that same cool dude energy, like girl, I'm not I'm not into you, but i'm your cool

guy friend. You know, Jake has that he's not looking for a girlfriend. You know, everything's about the daughter and his interests lie outside of I want to put my tongue in that girl's mouth. That's that's a sense and apart from the other boys, and we're like, wow, look at that guy. And then it's like, oh man, the bar is maybe not that high. He's high above it, but I feel like the bar is kind of low. Set your bars high, ladies, it's high school. It's listen.

I kissed so many people in high school and I don't regret a bit of it. To kiss people, get it out of your system. Oh man. When I lived in New York after high school, I kissed so many people so fun did of course, what's the best, Give me the best New York City post high school? Kiss?

Oh my gosh, were you here? Like kiss me? I told you about the guy that was it from from Juilliard that I you know, we were dancing around and I was standing outside of his college dorm and he like answered, I went back because I left something there, and he answered the door shirtless, and then like I was like, I'm dying right now, and then he he hugged me and like my heart was pounding, and he goes, your heart's pounding. Oh, it was very exciting. Um, but

I actually don't even remember if we kissed. Then I think I ran away, like I always did it just I was like, I'm okay, well then just ran off, but I did. I was dating a guy in New York and I remember it was just like a dreary night.

We went to see some Beatles movie at like one of those you know movie theaters underground that that played old movies, like the Draft of Drafthouse or something, and then um, yeah, I remember going outside and it was like it was on the East Side and it was drizzly, and we just kissed on a street corner and it was so and by the way, this is somebody who had been dating my roommate and then Candle I know, and then he but this is the high school thing.

Oh my gosh, I'll read this is the same thing that happened to the switcher who and then he was like, I think I like your roommate instead, And I was like, I don't know if I Oh my god, I think I was kind of like broken this love the switchero. She was like, I'm fine, it's fine, whatever, don't worry about it. You know, I wasn't that into him anyway. And then of course years later she was like that wrecked me. I was like, I'm sorry, Oh god, We're

like what you said it is realistic. Just young and dumb, and we don't understand our emotions and we don't have anybody telling us what's so gay and what's okay. We're just trying to figure it out, and they so badly want to be okay with things to like be cool, you know, team player and team player. Here's the thing. If you're young out there listening, we just need you to go be as messy as humanly possible, because one you'll get to laugh about it when you get older,

and too. It's a good way to practice chaos, Like like chaos from kissing somebody is so easy. It seems big when you're young, but it's really easy practice tool so that when you're older and like really hits the fan. You're like, I know how to deal with it. Kissed to the wrong person once and I practiced these feelings. Yeah, yeah, I kissed somebody. There was a boy my right before I left for college that I worked with, and he was older and he was very um he felt dangerous.

Like one of our dates was like we went to a cemetery that was supposed to be real haunted and he'd been living alone in like a farmhouse out in the middle of nowhere, and you know, like and he drove like a detective baby. He was so good looking, and I was like, I'm working with this guy, but

I'm gonna kiss him for sure. And so we went out, we had to I don't know where we went one night and he picked me up and he brought me home and like we talked on my parents front stoop for a long time and I was like, well, I'll walk you to your car. My parents neighborhood had the best show because I was kissing a new dude every other like that's the last summer were college. And as like we got to his car door, we just stood

there and I was like, I don't want it. To be awkward at work and he goes, it's been awkward at work and then kissed me, and I was just like, this is a movie. This is that is good kiss as many people as possible. Yeah, for sure, I'm down with that. Oh, I know what I want to talk about in this episode I make up Because you guys have met Jojo, you haven't met Kelly Jefferson yet. Who was the other half of that dream team. Um, Sophia, your I makeup in particular is so on point beautiful.

It's so good, it's so bold. Talk to us about the collaboration between you and Kelly Jefferson to create the iconic early Yeah. I don't know. I I wish I could remember how it started. But when Kelly came in,

because you know, she wasn't our our makeup artist. Right in the beginning, she was like, this girl is into fashion, and she and we were like looking through magazines because there was no Pinterest yet, and and we really got into this idea, which I love because it's like Brooks trying to make herself up like the girls she sees in the magazines, but she's sixteen, so she like matches her eyes shadowed to her outfit and I just love it.

And we really thought a lot about how to do it and how to bring um something young to it, because it's a it's a it's a it's a look that you see on girls in their twenties, or at least you did then, and so we really wanted to figure out how to make it feel like, you know, this young girl who was super into makeup, but she didn't have like an eye. She did every day she coordinated with her outfits, and I don't know, I just loved it. And Kelly with the candies ads, remember the

candies adds the shoes. I feel like that kind of color and that mischief is like really kind of how the Brook character started to feel like, I'm gonna weare this juicy lip gloss today. Yeah, oh yeah. We got really into God, we bought so many palettes of really colorful eyes shadow. We got really into like super glossy lip gloss. I mean, Kelly and I really really worked on what that girl looked like. Joy you You're a makeup was really good too, Did you once you started

dating Nathan? Did that free you up to be flirtier? Aesthetically? Because they really tried to make you like, you know, the girl that didn't wear any makeup in the beginning. Yeah, I think that was part of it. She was like just experimenting a little bit more with I feel it, wanting to feel grown up. Um. But I also don't know that we put I don't think I put that much thought into it. I might have, but I don't remember. But it was Kelly on this episode. She must have

been because that is such a Kelly. Yeah. So um yeah, I mean I think that was just her instinct was to was to draw out my brown eyes I don't know, try and make them look bigger or something, DOEI or I don't know, but a great job. Yeah, we need to ask her for sure, Kelly George Jefferson Okay, So Destiny wants to know, after so many years of doing the show, how were you guys able to snap into character and back into your own personality during filming and

do you think that affected your actual personality. I think it would be the other way around for me. I mean, my personality would have affected the character more than the character affecting my personality. I think, I hope. Yeah, I mean I've said it in the past. I feel like part of the reason I got so goofy and interviews or just like kind of flip it and would lie is because I needed people to understand that I'm not peyton sort like I I'm not an innately sad person,

so I would clown it up a lot. I still do um because I also just don't like wallowing. You know, I'm not a wallower. Be sad and move on me too. Yeah, I feel that I don't like to wallow, but I am really analytical and really introspective and really want to like I want to suck the marrow out, you know, I want to get the lesson. I want to understand systems,

like I like technical things and none of that. You see in brook we got a glimpse of it this episode where she's like, I need to know your hobby. I need to know what you like. I need to know what you like and I want to get too. Um. But I yeah, I think what was hard And I talked about this a little bit before too. It was hard for me to feel like people thought I was some like out there super sexual person because Brooke was.

Because it it brought an energy and like a gaze my way that made me feel very um, very exposed, and very uncomfortable. So it's interesting. I I know that as the years went on, there were things about my personality to Joy's point that affected Brooks more um. And I do think I took some some lessons from Brooke. You know, I got I was such a people pleaser. I I was a pro at like ignoring red flags

and just being a good girl. And and Brooke really taught me to be like, I'm not gonna put up with this, like absolutely, you know we're finished here, this is the line you've crossed it. I did have that when I started playing her at all. That took me years to cultivate. And I in hindsight and like, I don't know, but in hindsight, I feel like she probably helped me learn that. That's so cool. Yeah, I was like, I'm done, I'm done. I'm just crying and Materials still

dealing with my kids. You know. It's so funny because I like, my son is a really tender animal. And so sometimes when we're watching these episodes and I see Peyton being like particularly sensitive, it's like it's like watching Gus in a wig, because he has the chin tremble when he gets upset and I'm just like, oh no, it's my kid. Yeah, yeah, he can't watch these Tilly's much much much older, otherwise they'll just be able to manipulate me. It's too much. All right, we got another question, Joy,

it's our next question. Well, I like this one, and I and I've we've talked about this, but I think the fans will love to know. Um. Aaron has a question about stage names. Uh. She asks, have you ever considered or did you ever consider using a stage name instead of your real name? And Joy, why do you use Bethany if you don't go by that name? Is there story behind why you go by Joy instead of Bethany? Yeah? Um,

I'll run into my my partial portion of this real quick. Um. I of course considered using a stage name when I was younger, because I was obsessed with the name Rose. And I remember going on an audition once with my mother and I was old enough to sign my name.

She made me sign myself into the sign in sheets, so I must have been I think I was probably ten nine or ten, and I wrote my name as Rose Lens on the sign in sheet because I wanted to see what, you know, what it would sound like to have somebody call that out and if I liked it. So she said, you know, somebody came out to called Rose Rose Lens. And I stood up and walked in. My mom's like, uh, you know, do you know where you got the name from? Where'd you hear it that?

You were like, that's the one I don't I've just and it's my daughter's middle name. I've just always I don't know that name just very syncopated with me in some in some deep way, um symbiotic. I don't know what the word is anyway. Um, but yeah. And then I'd changed the spelling of my name to j O I E when I was thirteen, just in high school, and went by j O I E. Lens for many years professionally, and then changed it when I got one

Tree Hill. I was, um, just going through sort of a shift in my life and trying to figure out, I guess, wanting to be more authentic and not trying to be whatever everybody else, what I thought everyone else wanted me to be. Um, it's like the theme of my life. It's something I've been trying to figure out

how to. It's been a very it's funny being my age now and looking back and being like, man, I'm like, I gotta took me a long time, Like I was aware that that was a problem of mine when I was twenty, but it's still working its way out of my system. Yeah. So that's why I decided to use my whole name. I've never personally liked the name Bessany for me, um, but I I felt I was. It was more of like a leap of faith, like I'm just gonna embrace fully who I am and just go

for this and use my whole name. Um. So whatever. I still wish I was rose Lands, but it's too late now Rose. Yeah. It's funny because I interestingly know a lot of guys who go by their middle name. Oh yeah, oh sure, yeah, you know yeah, And I don't really know where that comes from. If someone wants

to give us the research on that, we would love it. Um. But one of the things that I always thought was cool about you using your full name, you know, first, middle last, was that people who aren't really close to you, we'll call you Bethany, and we get to call you Jo. It's also how we know who's fulish. It does it doesn't help. It helps to know when somebody says, hey, Bethany, and I'm like, oh, you don't know me, Yes, how can I help you? Somebody calls me Joy, then I

know they know me. Yeah, I don't know. I just think that's so cool. I never thought to use one hill, did you? So when we started doing the show. I never had this problem at MTV. I had this problem when we started doing the show. Is you know, like the creepy message boards. People started accusing me of making up my name because the spelling is like all wonky, and they were like, she's trying so hard to get attention by like changing, like clearly that's not her real name.

And I remember, like you know when you get mad about Tiger, I mean, would know I'm named You know how I got my name? I guess this is the story that I get. My mother was like turbo pregnant, and if I was going to be a boy, I was gonna be named after my dad um. But she didn't have a girl name. And I guess she went to her brother's house and there was a Golden Retriever next door that was like yapping, and this woman comes out of the back door and it's like Hillary, Hillary,

knock it off, you know. And my mom was like, cool. I mean that's the story that I've gotten over the years. But a yappy Golden Retriever with an I E Hillary with an I E. Yeah, you know. I thought about going as Hillary Ross. My middle name is Ross with one s s. Again, it was like a weird spelling thing. I like it. I don't know, guys, um, but no, I I don't know even now. You know I'm Hillary Burton Morgan now and it just feels like so many syllables. I know that Ben hr lens and I don't. I

don't know. It doesn't like it's like like Sarah just a good Parker. It all rolls off your time. It made signing autographs significantly more work. I should just do are initials. Yeah, h yeah, the B is a little am I a B M. Girls, I'm such a ten year old about it. Perfect you know what that means? Um, oh my god, if you just I need you to do just once, sign something Hillary poop number two. I I don't know. I love. I like the sound of your name with Jeff's name. It feels very complete. Do

what it feels like to me? Fair a faucet. Major's that's what I thought. It's like, yeah, I was one of three names. Everyone else got three names. Chad Joy got three names. I never thought to have a stage name, and honestly, I kind of wish I did because people are so freaking creepy, Like most people are nice, but the ones that are creepy are so deeply creepy. They

track down your parents. Yeah, And it's like I really wish I had like a layer of protection, like even with silly things, like you know, certain verifications you need, like for your bank where you have to give them your mom's maiden name. I can't. You had to make something up. And I mean this is obviously a thing. We all share it. I don't know if it really

irks me. Like I I am such a believer in like respect and boundaries, so when they get crossed, it like it makes me like not be able to sleep at night, and it just like it really like affects my feelings. And so I'm like, man, a stage name. Maybe I could have just had, Like what would your stage name be? In a perfect world, it's you, You go in the studio, you show up in twentieth century Fox or what was the big studio back then. I

don't know. M m M fine, Fine, you go to m Golden Mayor and they've got the little window and you walk up to the window and there's a guy sitting there and it's got two things of index cards. One is first names, one is last names. And that's how they picked your name, by the way, is really yep. You would just file through the thing and pick a card at random, and pick another card at random, and there you go, Ava Gardner. No stop, that's it, okay, So what will yours be? It was also today years

old when I learned this. I can't believe it. We need we need good stage names so that when we do our next series together. Here's mine, Eve Harling, Oh, Harling Harling. I love it. Eve is really good. I would take There's all sorts of names. I love the sound of man. Let me tell you what I would love to have not shared a last name. We two former US presidents, especially when everyone it's so insane, and I still get people who like yell at me, who

were like, you know, you're you're so progressive. Your family must be embarrassed. I'm like, my family's from Canada, and what you're talking about? Um, but so yeah, it would have been cool to not have had that. I would I would have taken an index card of whatever. I'll take anything you got. I always want to be someone really bitchy, like like Andrameda psychs, you know, like like something kind of androgynous and just like I'm hard drama. It's good evil. Um yeah, we like Peovil evil works,

you know what I mean? Every movie needs an evil person. Oh yeah, man, like like a name like Cruella de Ville. It's so good, so good? Should we show while we're talking about selecting things at random? Should we spend the wheel was a good seg joy? Okay, what do we got? The winner is most likely to live with their mom as an adult. Well okay, so character most likely to live with their mom as an adult? Wait? Did Brook live with Victoria? Victoria lived with Brook? I think Victoria

lived with Broke maybebe she didn't live with me. I would have loved it, honestly. If I if I could have gotten more hilarious scenes like with you know, definitely just juggling stuff at home, I would have loved it. Yeah, who which character would live with their mom? Can I sign Brooke up to live with her mom. Now, all right, fine. I think Keith would have, but in not in the derogatory way that I think this is implying. I think he would have done that to care for he seems

like the most nurturing. That would be the kind of person that would have stuck around. And actually Craig himself also would be the type of person that would would do that. Yeah, Craig Keith chicken dinner. Yeah, and in the sweetest way, in a loving way. Yeah. Caretaking respect for your elders. I love it. Hey, do we know what happens in the next episode? What do we have to look forward to next week? Anything? Anything dangerous? Anybody else taking their pants off? Next episode? I have to

look at the rundown? What is it? Crash course? In polite conversations, is the next episode? Are you guys at home watching along with us? I hope so. I hope so too. It's fun to watch it week by week like we had to in two thousand three, you know that weekly anticipation, because as I'm washing dishes before we tape these things, I'm like, man, I can't wait, Like I know, I can't wait. Yeah, I'm excited. I hope we and guys we watch these right before we film

our podcast. I mean, that's how we do it. It's not like us watch it sometimes this week, like we are sitting down watching them together and rolling right into taping for you. So I hope that you'll watch along with us. In fact, maybe we should do a live watch sometimes Instagram live watch right before we film our podcast or something. Let's do that. Well, we're going to practice our live events, and I'm really excited about the live event that we have coming up for O th

h day. Um. I hope we get a ton of fan questions. Yeah, I think we should all coordinate our outfits, right, Yeah, what are you guys wearing? I don't know what to wear. I don't either. I'm excited to see you in person though. That's going to be really fun. Yeah. Alright, so you guys get your tickets to that watch watch episode twelve so that we were all on the same page next week by everybody. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to

leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at drama Queens O t H or email us at drama Queens at I Heart Radio dot Com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama. Girl, Drama Girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic Girl Cheering for the Right Teams, Drama Greens, Dreelise, my go up girl Fashion, But your tough girl, you could sit with us. Girl Drama Queens, Drama Queens, Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queens