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Oh babe, it was great. This episode was locking great. But also I'm traumatized.
By the way I loved this episode so much, And the whole time I was just watching this emotional tragedy that you and Chad had to play out, and I was like, did they just keep Advilla on set for y'all? Like were they keeping you hydrated? I was so sad and heartbroken for you.
Both, but same for you. I was just like, why are they putting Sophia the human through this? Like? This is hard, guys, this.
Was This is a lot of hard work on this one.
Very different episode, very very different episode, beautifully written, which is why we're so affected by this By Terrence Coley.
Why don't you tell them what the rundown is?
Baby?
Yeah, Terry Colely did such a great job on this y'all. We're here for season six, episode seventeen, You and Me and the Bottle makes three tonight, which actually feels sort of appropriate. It is early here. I don't have a liquor. I have a smoothie. But our compatriot Joy is shooting a film. Not that it's about me, but she is shooting in Sophia, Bulgaria, which does make me feel sort of she Yeah, she was like, you the whole city, honey.
She was like, it's so beautiful here. You die for the architecture.
I was like, that feels nice, fantastic. But it's like late there.
It's very late there. She is actually still on set. She was supposed to join us today. So Hillary, it's you and Me and the Smoothie makes three. Ooh, girl on this.
Podcast about a coffee.
We got coffee.
I just housed some olive bread I needed to eat after this, I know, I know.
It really it really did make me feel emotional and snacky. We've really gone a little tangential. But friends, let me tell you what this one is about. Peyton and Lucas receive a startling surprise about the pregnancy as Brooke and Julian's relationship comes to a crossroads. Nathan and Haley celebrate their anniversary while Dan and Debb babysit Jamie. Meanwhile, Marvin and Millie try to pick up the pieces of their relationship.
I don't love that the synopsis says you get a startling surprise, but I wonder if that's a nod to the title cards of each vignette.
I see that, So, yeah, that's what was so different about this. This was written as a collection of like one act plays, and typically we don't get to do that in TV because viewers get bored. They're like, oh god, we've heard the same people talking for two hull pages. I got to change the channel. And at this point, I don't I don't know what the catalyst for this was for us to really like sit in these scenes and I love it, But it was as an actor. Oof,
it was doing a play. Everyone was doing a play.
Yeah. I remember the combination of excitement and anxiety that we all felt when we got the script, because yeah, I mean, these these scenes are seven eight nine pages in a chunk, and to your point, it is like blocking a play, and it it's fun when you're six long years into something to be handed a script and have it surprise you.
Yeah. Yeah, and this one. I vividly remember filming this one because Chad and I knew that we had a mountain to climb together. I'm sure you and Austin felt the same way. It's like everyone with their scene partner just locked in and yeah, if we're not seeing sports, to have that kind of sportsmanship behind the scenes felt good. It felt like us felt like our show to be like, all right, let's go shoot our basket, score our touchdown.
You know, like, whatever the we're doing in this scene, let's make it hurt.
So what you're saying is your whole script was just covered in little x's and o's and the emigends.
I mean kind of yeah, it was dark, you know. I I as I watched, I was like, Okay, I'm not gonna get emotional about this, but I do think we need to provide a trigger warning for anyone who hasn't watched the episode or has and just you know, isn't aware on their drive to work that this is what we're talking about. But you know, fertility, yeah, storylines, uh, pregnancy loss storylines, abortion storylines, all of that was touched upon in this episode in a way. Yeah that I'm actually proud of.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah. We we had some big talks well on that episode.
Yeah, they were really large, and it was interesting because the episode opens, you know, we talked a lot about how last week was basically like a big rom com. Yeah and so fun. And one of the things I saw that I appreciated, and I think this was very smart of Terry our writer, is that opening on Brooke and Julian with the misdirect. I don't do that, you know,
it made it feel like that rom com. And it feels to me like this episode was really written to like leave one scene from six sixteen and then we sort of like dove out of the humor and into something deeper. And I really appreciated that because where we end up, to your point, the reason we talk about a trigger warning, you know, we end up really in
heavy stuff for people. And you talked about this last week, how when you were filming all this stuff as Peyton and Lucas, you hadn't been pregnant, you hadn't been down the roads you've been down to become a mom. And not only did I feel for you, guys watching you, you know, go through this beautiful play that was so emotional, but I wondered how you would feel about it now, having had the life experiences that you've had since.
Well, what'sked up is that I had some experience with this. I was between seasons one and two. I had some fertility issues. I had a problem that caused me to miss a photo shoot in LA and our boss lost his fucking mind with me and told me I was ruining everything. And so everyone knows that I'm like the kid lady, Like I'm like the lady that fucking loves kids and being a mom is all I ever wanted
to do. My manager still tells the story about, you know, we were doing some interview at a record store in Times Square and everyone asked where we were going to be in ten years, and I was like barefoot and pregnant, Like, houck you up for me? So the powers that be knew that I had kind of this heartache about this specific issue. So it's difficult to watch a younger version of myself navigate this knowing that my future was going to be a future of loss. I knew that I
was going to have pregnancy loss. I knew that I was going to need to have abortions at some point in my life, you know, And so it was really easy to cry in these scenes. It's easy to tap into something like but did they think I was that they of an actress that we always had to tap into the real stuff, like, well it was manipulative.
Yeah.
I was just going to say, I one of the things I love about you is that you will always crack a joke no matter how heavy something is, because that's your sense of humor. But like, as your friend, that just makes me want to like chop off heads because it it wasn't that they had nothing else to do. It was that our boss really enjoyed making people act
out versions of their real personal lives on camera. He really took a lot of pleasure in that, and for better or worse, we were very cultured to like always smile, always be professional, and never let anybody know any of it was getting to us. That's something I'm certainly working through as an adult in therapy, like realizing, oh, I can be miserable and everyone can think I'm happy. This is uncomfortable. Uh huh.
Way if I hear that, if I hear one more time in my life. Like we had no idea you were upset.
It's like, oh, really, of.
Course not, because if I'm upset, then I'm unprofessional.
Yeah.
If I actually say how I feel, I get attacked for being the problem. So okay, we hit a nerve with this storyline. And what I will say is that Chad Michael Murray showed the fuck up. That dude cried on my coverage. He stayed with me the whole time. He wanted to really understand what the girl side of it was. Like. I remember being astounded because we've known Chad forever. He's like my it's like a brother, which is st up when like a brother characters playing your husband.
But we had like we picked on each other. We ribbed each other about a lot. You know, we made fart jokes together. Like it was a very juvenile friendship and when you know you have to go into this really dark ship that hurts with somebody. The way he showed up made me feel very cared for, and I was able to express that to him and which made him in turn feel really cared for that I saw it. You know, it's one thing when like you do something nice and then the other person. You don't have to
point it out. The other person just like recognizes it. And so this was a turning point in our friendship this episode.
Well, but I you know, I think about that in terms of our lives, all of us, and where we had started six years prior. Oh yeah, you know really, I mean, you have more professional experience in this world than a lot of us. But like, I feel like I was a little hatchling, like I had goob behind. I didn't know what the heck I was doing.
You done big stuff. Though. I love the Ryan Reynolds comment.
And this, I know, I know that was very funny. I was like, I never actually dated that guy?
Was it? Van Wilder?
Yeah?
Like the reference to like my first movie ever was so funny, Like, and I did love that that we ribbed on the fact that so much of what you read on the internet is just so far from true that it's ridiculous.
Well, because who's dated? Who have you looked at your list? I love?
Is it crazy?
I didn't date Pete Wentz in real life? You guys, well, well.
Of course you didn't. By there's so many people that people think I've dated, And I'm like, I mean, I guess I'll let you believe that because I don't really need, you know, in my real business. But before we get there, like the that whole thing right, like we're referencing our
essential our childhoods on camera in the episode. But what I really appreciate about what you're saying and what I could see as a viewer and someone who's known you guys for close to you know, well twenty years now, I could see that that dynamic you're talking about not just this beautiful story for Lucas and Paydon, I could see it for Hillary and Chad. And what I really love about what you're saying is, you know, we've talked
a lot on this podcast. Look it's the girls. We talk about how we raised each other, we grew up together,
we learned lessons together. But something that I think is really special for you and for him, you know, for you, like I wasn't sure if you were going to share this stuff about what happened between season one and two today, So a thank you there, but b like we'd all been through a lot in these six years together, and it is not lost on me that I see you too in this EID episode go to a place as partners in a scene that is so deep and so
real and so authentic. And you know, a year later, you both were gonna have left Wilmington, you had met Jeffrey, you were starting a family, and like, I don't know how many years it is, I'm not doing the math in my head, but not too much longer after this, I think he went and started a family.
He did it while he was doing a movie with Jeffrey. Yes, that's right. Yeah, but I would.
Think that you were friendship and in the same way for us, like we held you through the beginning of loss and the journey for you, like as a man, he got to do that with you. Yeah, And I should think that your friendship with him going from being like a sister figure to playing this wife and mom who he got to show up for, Like you had to help raise that boy into becoming the man and the dad he is today.
He loves being a dad. No one loves me, I know.
And I think that's so beautiful, Like there is I don't know. There's just something so special about watching you guys in this episode and thinking about what everyone's been through for the last six years. And I love hearing how helled you both felt in your little one act. You know, it was a.
Learning experience for me because we're both cancers. We both have a hard exterior that sometimes people tell us is unapproachable or just maybe intimidating, like, oh, you aren't someone who I would come to with a you know, a problem necessarily because you'd tell me the truth and then you'd just learned about it.
Yeah, I guess.
So what I learned from having a great writer script this scenario for me is that I have just as much strength and softness as I do in my prickliness. And that's been a big lesson for me in adulthood is to understand that softness is also powerful, and that's not something that comes naturally to me. So, you know, even when Jeffrey and I suffered our first pregnancy loss.
This sounds terrible, but I already practiced this scene, like I'd already played this scene, so I knew what it meant to let myself be upset, you know, to try to be optimistic in the face of that all of that. But Jeffrey hadn't you know, he had never been given a script, and he really struggled in what to say to me and I wrote about that in my book,
and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. For the guy who hasn't felt all the hormone changes and the body changes, pregnancy can oftentimes be imaginary and really hard to connect with. And for the girl, it's the most serious in the world, whether you want that pregnancy or not, like it's life or death for you. And I really credit Terrence for the way he crafted these scenes because Lucas Scott saying, fine, I'll be the dick, I'll be the bad guy if it keeps you alive.
Was it real thing for a man to say to his partner, you know, yes, yes, and you know what.
I loved that too, I wrote, I wrote that down. I said, I really like seeing a man be as sort of I don't want to say rational because it makes it sound like you're being irrational, But I really like seeing him be willing to come from that ultimate place of vulnerability, saying I refuse to do this without you. I can't do this without you, like you know, I choose you. And maybe I don't know, y'all. Maybe it's because most of the people we seem screaming about taking
women's rights away are men. So I'm so used to them being like it's so sacred and it's what you're born to do and it's easy, and it's like, actually, I've had a heart surgeon, and I learned that the number one cause of aortic dissection in women, literally where the largest or artery in your body rips apart and you internally bleed to death is pregnancy. Like, so when you say it's life and death, it's literally life and death.
Yea.
So maybe because culturally, unfortunately in our country, like so much of the political pushback on women living comes from men. And I was like, thank you, Lucas Scott, like, thank you for saying these things, thank you for being willing to sob and say I hate this, but also I
choose you. I prioritize your life. I was so surprised by it and the fact that Terry gave you guys this opportunity to say every single thing and to confront the fear like he did such a good job, and like, god, yea, those are the kinds of men you really want to have in a writer's room.
Well, you know, it reminded me of my husband Jeffrey. Every once in a while will put on his pro Rose shirt and just go run errands and do school pickup and I'm like.
God, damn, yeah, that's my man, that's my honey.
Yeah, crowd, because it is. It's been so stereotyped in storytelling that the wife and potential mother needs to martyr herself in order to be this angelic figure. And for every woman out there that is going through a medical crisis, what I don't want is for them to watch Peyton Sawyer say I'm willing to die for this and feel
like they have to come to the same conclusion. And so to have Lucas Scott respect the autonomy of his partner and know the risks that come with it, but also know that it's her body.
That was important.
You know, it was important, and it makes that balance of storytelling where I'm nervous but he's sure and then the flip I don't know. I yeah, I loved its ks.
No, you know what I liked. I liked that you guys had the space for all of your emotions and even in the ways you know to your point, like that women get so pressured to martyr themselves. I mean, you know, our friend Glennon wrote a whole beautiful book about it.
Like, I like that.
Even in the moments where I from this year twenty twenty four looked back at this episode from two thousand and nine and went, are they just gonna make her ignore her health? I really liked it, even in the even in the nuance they gave you the he said
maybe so I want to try. And it's like I understand that very human habit of holding on to that little glimmer of hope, you know, like when I think about, you know, not necessarily even on this topic, but when I think about, like, oh yeah, in hindsight, I might be able to see where something wasn't good for me, but like in the moment, there was a chance, oh yeah, and I really wanted to bet on the chance. I really wanted to give it my all. I didn't want to give up before I was sure that it wasn't
for me. And I just think there's something so human about that, you know, that everybody can really relate to if.
You can survive one more day, right, and then the next day, if you can survive one more day after that. For me, in my pregnancy with George, after you know, multiple pregnancy losses, that nine months took forking ever. I mean, that was the longest period of my entire life because you have to cut it down into bite sized pieces like that. You're no, you're not gonna last the full nine months, that's not gonna happen. But can you last for six hours? Yeah? Yeah, all right, I can do
six hours and it's a stressful way to live. But when you're an optimist, let's yeah. And then when you hit that point, we're like, no, I can't do six more hours. Then the ability for you to make a very sure decision is there. You know, when you can't do the bite sized pieces anymore, then the decisions are made and it's really really easy. So I like that as partners, Peyton was able to say, you're such a dick,
and it's not. They're not breaking up. It's not a fight where it's like we are you're leaving me, you know. It was, Yeah, we're having a fight and we're gonna be okay in twenty minutes, but we really need to have this fight right now.
Yeah, it's a big one.
I love when partners good fight.
By the way, because it's so healthy. Yeah, but I love I loved that moment of the back and forth, and you know, obviously all the pages of this scene, I loved you saying you're a dick and him saying, fine, then I'm a dick. Yeah.
You know, he's not trying to talk me out of it.
He's being real clear, and I just, yeah, I just thought that it was like I thought that it was very beautifully done.
Thanks.
I mean, Greg Prange directed this, And that was another layer of weird because I had been with his son for a really long time, and Greg knew me really well, and he also knew about all these kinds of sad parts of me, and so he was very careful with me too.
I think everyone knew how sensitive this was.
For me, and so I felt really taken care of, especially by the guys. The guys somehow knew, I said, I wasn't gonna cry. They knew that a nerve had been touched like this, that's a button you don't touch. And so to do the whole last part of this season already under duress man. Yeah, we had really good guys. We had good our you know, Steve Allen reached out just recently our Dollary Grip and was like, Sis, I heard you were talking about me on the podcast, so I'm doing it again. Steve.
We love you, Steve Allen.
I just loved our guys, and Chad became a very dear person to me because of this. So anyway, I for all the women out there that are triggered by this, I'm really sorry, and I hope I'm not using language that's offensive because I'm making jokes and stuff about it. But yeah, it was. It was just a really complicated
thing to do. But I also, my friend, I see you in this episode having to do this whole same thing about relationships and failed relationships and opening yourself up and being vulnerable to people, which is something that you've been vocal about, like do you want to light yourself on fire right now? Do?
Yeah?
I mean it, it is. It's very wild, and this journey of Brooks was really personal to me obviously, you know, I had been through I'd been like pretty lucky to be pretty sheltered in terms of relationships as a kid, Like you know, my first relationship was with my best friend and like my my camp sweetheart since I was nine, Like I had really sweet, kind, patient people in my life, and then we all got thrust into adulthood, and I went through something that was both like so invasive and
public but also like not ever fully talked about, or like nobody knows the full picture. I mean, obviously you do, but I don't think it's really anybody's business. There's this weird thing where like when you're any version of a public figure, like you almost want everybody to have all the facts so that things make sense, and then you're also like nobody deserves that. Yeah, but you know, people fill vacuums where you give yourself grace or privacy with
their own facts, which are usually pretty gross. And to go through that after like such a period of sweetness when I was a kid was very jarring, and so it definitely what I realize now again, Like props to my wonderful therapist. Trevor's worth every dollar I pay him.
Thanks Trevor.
I love you, Trevor.
Uh.
Also, my therapist calls me dude, which like is just my favorite thing. He's sort of like when you talk about how you and Chad became like very brother sister, Like my therapist feels like the big brother I never had, not the point. I love him, but you know what I've learned is that. It taught me like, oh, you can be living a life and not realize it's not real. Like you can you can literally think you know what's going on around you, and there's this whole other thing.
And so what I learned in these six years was like I don't trust people. Yeah, I have to like observe people. I you know, I would stay like very single for long periods of time and just observe people. Anybody who like wanted to date me, I'd make them become my friend and I'd observe them to see like who are you really when you're not trying to like woo me or impress.
Me, right, you know, like I just you also would sick your friends on people like hey, yeah, go see how tell me.
What you think of this? Like tell me you go talk to that person and see if I'm crazy because I really didn't think for a long time that I could trust my judgment.
You know, when that gets ripped away from you, baby, like yeah, it's so hard.
To come back from that.
Well yeah, and when you when you go through betrayal, you go like, oh, do I have any idea what's real and what isn't? Yeah, you know it is a kind of loss. Like when you talk about loss, it is a loss of you know, a loss of trust for others is painful enough, but a loss of self trust is difficult. And so for me, what I see being done in this episode is like the people who knew me and observed me for six years were like, hey, honey,
do you realize you do this? Do you realize you hold people at arm's length, like you really heisman people? And I did, like certainly, And I've I've always moved very I've moved like very slowly for a very long time time. I think that was just sort of how I learned to protect myself. And it was interesting to watch it be written about in a way like because it's me, but it's not me, and just go like,
oh wow, people really can see me. Oh and like so we really have our real lives, Like in a sense, it's like a like a shadow self, like a.
Like a a copy avatar.
Yeah yeah, like like multiplicity, Like it's the second Michael Keaton where you're like, it's me, but it's not me, but it's me. I feel this is very intimate and personal.
Oh. I really struggled with Julian in this episode, I thought he was gross. I thought when Brooke said ick, which she said you ick at the.
Time, I don't do that.
I don't do that. I agree with her and I But then when I saw Peyton's stomach bump, I realized, like, oh, some time has passed, like that's the thing. Has it been three months?
Has it been four months?
Like? I wish they had given us some semblance of time other than a growing bump on Peyton.
Well, especially because we kept getting the chirns for the vignettes seven year itch deleted scene, Like, couldn't they have given us like a three months later, right?
Because Julian, the last thing I knew, you were throwing your letter jacket at him, you know, and you guys had a fight and then you sort of made up in the diner.
It was fine.
And now he's saying I love you like crazy talk. It was h It was a little whiplashy for me in the beginning, But then as as the story progressed and he kept pushing you further and further and further, it really felt to me like he was an insull in high school and actually never really had a girlfriend.
Yeah.
I was like, why are you guilty, this chick. It's so passive aggressive. It's not I don't want anyone to ever tell me they love me because I've forced them to before they were comfortable with it.
Yeah. Yeah, it started in such a good place, and then it did get almost a little combative, and I was like.
I don't know if I'm just being sensitive because I'm protective of Brooke, but yeah, maybe there's I mean, I'm sure there's people out there there like Hillary Layoff. She needed to hear the hard love. She needed to hear it, and sure, maybe, sure, maybe she did, but.
It just felt really pressure. Well, here's what I think is cool. I liked the reveal because Brook's never said it until this episode. I like the reveal that she has not been in love since high school, you know, because you can kind of assume it. In the four years we skipped. We never saw it in the flashbacks. We saw Victoria making her go on dates so she'd get photographed with the hot guy for the tabloid whatever.
But to hear her say it, and to see Julian see it, and to see the discomfort, like I remember how that felt to stand there and think about what it would be like to have someone see your secret that you just haven't opened yourself up to anybody in so long. And I appreciated as much as I thought by the end of the scene he was a little petulant. They wrote him that way. What I appreciated was the fact that she was able to say, like, no matter how bad you feel about this dynamic, imagine how I feel.
And that she got to say how hard it is to be the footnote in someone else's love story. And what I loved that he said to her in response is that you gave up feeling like you deserve love. I was like, oh god, Oh it cuts deep where you go like, maybe that's just not for me. Like
I've I've had that experience. I've had to come to terms with that experience, with reaching a point in life where it's like, well, I know I want to be a parent, and I know I want partnership, and I know I want these things, and I have so much love in my life. So maybe maybe it doesn't look like it's looked on TV or in movies. Maybe it
looks like a partnership for the good of others. Maybe it looks maybe it looks like different than I thought it was going to look like and the real roundabout for me, the like aha moment is like we said this idea of Martyring. It's it is what Glennan wrote her book about. It's like, well, if I'm going to be in a relationship or a marriage for my eventual daughter, would I want this relationship for my daughter? And I think that's a big lesson And I see that in my life.
That's so weird. Can I tell you that that exact quote has popped up in my algorithm multiple times in the last couple of days and I don't know why.
By the way, it's been in mine a lot too. And I'm like, are they listening to the conversations I'm having with Trevor, Like what's going on? Yeah?
Weird. Yeah, it's like her doing an interview talking about that exact excerpt.
Yes, weird.
Yes, And like I remember when I first read that book, I sent it to my mom and like it gave us a whole conversation and my mom and I talked about like our family histories and generational trauma and things in my parents' relationship and things in the relationships I've been in. Like it's such a profound thing of Oh, we will make all these We'll pretzel ourselves in a lot of ways, but we would never want anyone to pretzel our kids. Yeah, Like we don't want them to
be folded up and made small. And I think the reason I love what's happening in this episode so much is it rings true for me. It rings true for me at the age we filmed it, It rings true
for me now where I've been. I know it rang true for you then, and I know it rings even truer for you now, given where you've been in your family and with your stories of loss and like that, I think is the power of a good story when you can go like, oh, all of these things are really unique, these storylines, but they're super universal because they're true.
Well, it'sn't that step that we could do the show in our early twenties and then be here in our forties still triggered by it. And I think that's why our show was a multi generational show. Like, yeah, if this were just airing on TV right now, I would feel just as connected to this character as I did, yes at twenty five five years old.
Totally agree, And I think that is the magic of our show. I think it's why we have you know, we get to hang out with all these different groups of intergenerational fans when we go to events and stuff. Everyone in their forties relates to it, and so does everyone in their twenties. And by the way, like so to our parents. And I was about to say in their sixties. Then I'm like, sure, our parents are in their seventies and they're still like totally haraforing.
Hatey Hamory, you know, like yeah.
And I just think I think this is the specialness of story. And so often when our real stories were used on camera it felt gross, But this I actually really appreciate for us.
Yeah, I mean I don't mind having a script in life. I don't mind having like a practice run. And that's what our show really was for us in a lot of ways. Like Chad was my first wedding and first you know, pregnancy and all this kind of stuff, and you just get to you know how people drive around in their cars and they have fake conversations just to practice. Yeah, do you do that? I do that.
Oh, I talk to myself and other people who aren't here in my house all day all the time.
You have to practice the conversation. Yeah, you're out the conversation.
Yeah. Sometimes you got to practice ahead of time, and sometimes five years later you're like what I.
Should have said was and another thing, Oh, I'll bring it back up.
I'm gonna say this.
Yeah, this was for a lot of my stuff, Like our practice run one Tree Hill, So we practiced.
And do you ever wonder in like, maybe this is kind of up, but do you ever watch our show and go like, did this did we like manifest all the things that happened to us later? Like did the show say to the universe, Oh more of this? Because I would have liked to have been like, no, no, this is just for work.
Honestly, we conjured so much unintentionally did this show? Because when you when you say things are little witch. Yeah, when you say things out loud, that's powerful. You know the power of speech is incredibly powerful. And you know you when you put your energy into words and ideas and thoughts and you do it over and over and over again, it ends up happening. It always. If I say someone's name three times, you bet your they're gonna send me a Facebook message or text me, or just
can show up at the supermarket. It's a nightmare, so I'm really careful what I say. And yeah, with this show, yeah yeah, having a baby, having pregnancy complications. You know, Peyton was all about mom and pop shops, you know, the trick of it all to all Ages club, and here I am with the town candy store, you know, hanging out with all the teenagers. It just feels really cyclical, and I like that, and I think it's happening for
other characters on our show too. You know, when we see Nathan and Haley, you know, when we see Mouth and Millie even having these like very hard conversations, we know the people behind it who have conquered really hard things in their life, and we know that maybe this was a good practice run for everybody on Adult Ting, Like.
Yeah, I mean, and that's something I think is so cool is the stages of relationships everyone in. Like Brooke and Julian are on the precipice of something and he's asking her to leap with him. Peyton and Lucas are on the verge of this whole new frontier, and then we get to go with Nathan and Haley with our other like you know, pillar couple.
Thank God they're safe.
Thank God. But by the way, how cute that they're in the seven year itch moment and instead of it being a problem with their relationship, their relationship is stronger than ever. But they're both being really honest that individually they don't have what they want yet, that they want more of the things that make them as individuals happy. Nathan wants to pursue basketball, and because he wants to
pursue basketball, he knows Haley wants to pursue music. Yeah, and like, who could call her on that but him and say like, I saw your face. And the reason I know the feeling is because I get that feeling. I love that he does that for her.
And this when she says there's only room for one attention whrror in this fam, I was like, so good, girl, I heard that.
I heard that.
Yeah, No, there's definitely room for two attention whoors in every family, but no more, no more? Uh. Yeah. I liked that they had that really honest conversation because, first of all, when they first show open in that house, I'm like, what the are they doing in a house? Why didn't they just go to a hotel. Yeah, but there's something kinky about being in a for sale house.
You know, listen, seven years in, we're getting lessons on how to keep it spicy.
You know, we hooked, definitely hooked up in a house that was for sale once.
Because he's on my face.
I was like, are you gonna say it? Are you gonna say it? Because I know the story, that's all. I'm so red.
I'm so proud of you. I'm not embarrassed. We have been together for fifteen years. We can do whatever we want.
I am real proud of you, babe.
So that's all I could think about, is I watched this scene like, get that, Hailey, I get that. Yeah, Okay, making moves. That's why seven years.
In that feels right. I also loved again, like when we talk about this idea that our characters feel a little bit like the first Michael Keaton in Multiplicity, you know, like just one copy over. Watching Nathan and Haley run around in this house and sort of fantasize about this parallel universe life. It feels like they're toying with their own little avatars. Oh yeah, what would it look like? And talking about what could be?
Yeah, And it was interesting to me that she kept choosing like movie references. It was like she was trying to create a because she didn't grow up necessarily in a conventional household. Her parents have sold the house, they're living in an RV. You know, she's trying to create the fantasy, right, the white picket fence, the old house filled up with kids, like it's a very antiquated version of what a happy family looks like. And then Nathan comes in and is like, but that's not our happy.
Our happy is mom on the road, which is the exact opposite of mother martyrdom, you know, And to have the boy recommend that what I want to know, who Terry's their therapist? Was our writer? Because yes, by the way, who's.
That man's therapist? And can Terry maybe write like an advice book for dudes, what are we doing?
Well?
That's it.
Like when I had my first miscarriage and Jeff didn't know what to do, someone gave me a book that was written by a man who had experience, and was it helpful? It helped me because all of a sudden I understood what he was going through. And then when I gave it to him, he didn't feel like an alien,
you know. So for Terry, yeah, Terry, we need you to write a book on all things like how to support your partner's career, how to deal with loss, how to show up in a way that's helpful and not manipulative. Also though, like don't force people to tell you that they love you.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that was probably a little bit of a device to poke the bear, to poke the brook.
Yeah, we needed Julian. He's not a perfect person. He's not good, he's not bad, he's just trying.
Yeah, well, and you don't always get it right, and that is something that I think is actually so important to show on TV because part of the problem, like when you talk about what Hayley's trying to achieve, you watch those rom coms and you think that's what your life is supposed to be like, and that's not life. It's not that easy. And I actually like when our characters don't always get it right and then they figure out how to get through it, because that's what we learn. Like,
that's what you're talking about with this book. You guys got it taught you how to get it more right with each other because you didn't know how yet.
Yeah, for anybody that is going through something like that, though, we should.
I'm gonna yeah, what is the book?
It's called Vessels And Okay. It was so incredibly helpful, not just in this but in like my home marriage. It is a book by Daniel Rayburn.
R AE b U r N.
It's wonderful. It was a really it was a really helped book because I do think the boys get a bad rap. You know, they're not necessarily given a ton of great examples of how to be involved in their partner's hard stuff. It's almost like they're given this choice, like you can either be overbearing and man's plain and tell her what to do, or just be so hands off that she's abandoned.
That she's like I can't believe I did this with you.
Yeah. Nathan could very easily say like, whatever you want, Haley, whatever you want. Yeah, but he's involving himself. He's got a lot on his plate. She's coming to him with this problem of like, hey, so I got suspended. Sorry I didn't tell you, but maybe let's just change our whole life right now. Yeah.
It's sort of like when you go through when someone goes through a breakup and they cut bangs and you're like no, no, no, I went through that in my in my crew, in my crew, well, I mean I've done it, but no, this summer, like with everybody, everybody I know was either getting divorced or having a baby. I was like, well it's a wild but in like my closest crew, of the five of us, now it's four who one stayed and four didn't who were all getting divorced. My best friend called and was like, so
is today the day I get bangs? And I was like, We've been doing this dance for fifteen years. We do not go through a breakup and cut bangs. We're not doing this. And so I wound up getting our friend Ricky, who is like our big consulting, wonderful hairdresser. When we
did our salon and Detroit. We called Ricky and I was like, Ricky, I need you to order nia instead of clip in bangs so she can clip them in on the days that she thinks that she wants these and then she can take them out because I know her as well as I know myself, and she never is happy three days after she cuts up. We've done this twice in the last decade, and so now we both have clip and banks Sophia.
If you don't launch a line of brook Banks, I am gonna be so mad at you. You have been talking about clip and bangs for years.
I'm obsessed with them. I know it's like the easiest way to have a change.
Yeah, if you don't, if you don't get on that, I'm gonna be furious with you.
Okay, who do we talk to? Do you want to help?
Well? Apparently your friend who can make bangs? Yeah, I just need someone with like a little gray stripe right here, a little white stripe. Yeah. Brook Banks are gonna be a huge seller at Target, my friend, no one else is selling just like bangs.
Oh They're all I want.
Just put them in the same aisle as all the shampoo and hair products and stuff at these like big stores, and every woman that's like got that one hour to herself between work and kid pick up is just gonna be like.
I'm just gonna I'm just gonna try them.
I just need a bang.
We just need like a like what what are the ends of the aisles Kiosk?
You just need a little Kiosks aisle.
Cap I want that.
You're gonna make so much money on this idea.
Me and Sally Hanson, let's go.
I love new nails, new bangs. Knew you. I can love it so much. I do want bangs just because I do too.
Wait, speaking of changes that people make, this is sort of a hard left, but sort of not.
No, I know, are you getting lasick? Lasic?
The lasik is a big old change because when when mouth finds her glasses in the drawer, like this old piece of her has been left behind, I'm.
It really hit me.
It made me like, it made my little voice catch in my throat.
You know what I liked about it. My gut reaction when she said I got lasick was that she did this thing.
She didn't consult him.
She you know, it's a cosmetic procedure, but she made this decision completely on her own, the same way she did with her virginity. She didn't consult anyone. And there seems to be this gradual building of Milly where she doesn't need permission for sure. And when he's like, I missed the glasses, had she asked him should I get lasik? And he said no, I like the glasses. An old Millie that would have altered her decision, But new Milly's
like I'm not gonna ask anybody. I just don't want to wear these things in my face anymore.
Mm hm. And I'm wondering. I'm like, did I can't remember, did Lisa actually get lasik during those episodes she was off because remember we were all getting lasik done by Mike Lehon's wife.
Yeah, Kayleone.
I'm like, did Kate fix her eyes? Like I don't know prior to this episode? I'm so cute.
Were Lisa's glasses ever real?
Yes?
Okay, they were real? Interesting? No? Yeah, I like it. I like it for Millie. You know, it's a little she's all that taking the glasses off and being infinitely like hotter.
Now she's she's not a virgin anymore.
Look at her. She's in high boots and silk and there's cleavage.
She was she was in a brook Davis Tyler sugar.
I love that top.
Yeah, it looked fantastic. And I was like, why don't we still have blouses like that? Because I liked how they hug your tits, but they're not snug on my belly because I don't like snug on my belly.
I don't either. I want to be able to eat a burrito and have people not ask me if I'm pregnant.
So we're gonna sell bangs and hugging shirts, but but leave that belly free.
Okay, God, Sophia, we have so many things to do business wise.
I just love this.
No. I I like that Mouth apologized to her. I like that he copped to the text messages and was like, I am accepting ownership of this. And I also like that it still wasn't enough for Milly because she was like, I, okay, you're sorry, Like, okay, but this is my stuff. This I have to deal with this in my head, like I don't need your permission to forgive myself. I need to handle me. There's just again, it's like an autonomy story where she is centered in herself. It was great. Yeah,
I hated for her. I feel bad, but she looks hot and seems like she's on the right path, and I guess I'm not worried about her. I know she's crying in her car, but sometimes we do that for fun.
Sometimes you just need a good cry.
Girl. If a Celindion song comes on, hey, I'm gonna feel some things.
I love it.
Little Pola Cole, Oh, come on.
O'Connor, come on, just like the old emo girl songstresses. I want to hurt my my my girlfriend Betty, who just covers So did you see the pole cover? I just that's why I said, Oh god, I know killed me. I was like, more of this, please, we got to send it to all our Dawson's friends.
It is really really good. Do we think they're going to get back together? He kept He kept the glasses in the drawer, which I like because when men leave things planted in their apartment, it means they don't plan on bringing anything new over or they're sadistic. But I don't think Mouth cisadis. I don't think I don't either.
Yeah, I'm as much as I don't love the way that they've written some of this stuff for Mouth. I just I like Mouth and Milling together. I think. I think my my hope is that they get past you know, im petulant writing.
Because he's already said even though Terry wrote really like lovely things for him to say in this episode, he said some eightish previous episodes, and it's like.
It was not cool.
Oh it's hard to it's hard to get over.
Yeah, I will say, though, what I do really appreciate is him him owning his behavior. Finally, you know, I felt like that was a really long time coming.
Well, was that another dig at our boss? You said on the last episode that Mike Harrow was taking digs at our boss with all of the like creepy director behavior. And so there's a part of me, with all this text message talk that makes me think that maybe Terry was playing the same card because the text messages were relentless.
Well and the and the text messages, like Gigi's entire storyline is our boss is fantasy of how he wishes women would throw themselves at him. So yeah, I wonder, I wonder if there's some sort of role reversal call out happening with mouth there.
Yeah, just even like participating in that when you're in a relationship is no bueno.
Well yeah, and I don't I don't know what was happening in season six, but I definitely know, you know, some of our sweet friends who come in next season, I do know that one of the things our Boss would do to them a lot would be like, oh yeah, send me a picture of your fitting, Like I want to see what the outfits are, Like, you know, wardrobe is slow, and then it would be like, well, you know, but you've got you've got a scene, you have a love scene with so and so, Like what are the
underwear options? And he would essentially, like, under the guise of meaning to pick wardrobe, like, would force women to send photos of themselves in underwear to him?
Are you kidding?
I'm not so. I wonder. I wonder if I wonder if he had tried to pull that with any of our sweet little guest stars this season, and if that was part of the gig of it all. I don't know, I'd be very curious to ask. Also, I'm just like, what a loser like you really have nothing better to do with the whole Internet at your disposal? Like why do you have to bumb people?
Are you professionals at your disposal?
Internet at your disposal to find whatever kind of pictures you're looking for? Why you gotta why you've got to make people.
On take your kink elsewhere?
Sir?
Thank you? You know what kind of kink we like? Cutie couples in the houses, what kind of kinks we don't be in? A creep people who don't want you to be a creep in their cell phones.
Yeah, don't be a cell phone creep. Tap, Dan's being a creep.
The flip, dude, the flip, And it was exactly what we talked about last week. We love Dan Scott so much. In these moments, we can't believe it. He seems different. And then the flip on Deb. I was like, Oh, there he is.
He almost got us, didn't he.
He almost got us? We knew better.
Yeah.
See, this is why I don't trust my judgment every time.
We fall for it every time with Dan Scott. Oh, how come you and Nan or nanny Deb aren't together? And you're thinking, I get it, Jamie. I'd want them to get.
Back together too, because you love them both so much.
And then Deb is like not today, and then he blames her. We need to be more, Deb, We need to be like no, I'm gonna hate you forever and then ten more years after forever. Yeah, she's cold. I like that.
You know what I call that? I call that a strong boundary. Thank you, Trevor, Thanks Trevor.
I appreciate your therapist, Trevor, because I get like the trickle down effect where now you talk me off my ledges. It works out great for everybody.
It's been it's been wonderful.
Did you think when deb was looking at that photo album that she was going to make a pass down or something?
I caught myself holding my breath. Yeah, right, yeah, I was like, what is this? What's happening? Are we reminiscing? What?
What? And then I see, you know what she was doing. She was compartmentalizing the way that we do where we're like, everything's fine, it's great. I I hold you, but you'd never know anything makes sense.
I'm fantasizing about plotting your death, but you'd never know.
Oh my god, yeah, Deb, she's a great actress.
Deb Well.
And the shock then, because they really get into it and it gets heightened and heightened and and it starts in this sweet memory right with Disney. So then the photo album makes sense and you're kind of like, oh my god, what's happening. Is this family finding some semblance of healing? And do we want that? And then she slaps him with it and then he really just god,
he comes back to her. Yeah, he comes back in full force and he grabs her and he's vicious, and then in walks the kid with the beeper and you go.
Now, right when she says, I can't wait for you to die, like that makes me believe in justice God. All right boy, yeah, well look, we all know what's going to happen. It's one of the most legendary moments in Tree Hill history, and I can't wait to talk about it.
Oh that poor dog.
What was your honorable mention for this episode?
Honestly, for me, I'd give the honorable mention to Terry, to our writer.
Yeah, I think.
He did such a beautiful job.
He really my gallows humor. And so my honorable mention is for the specific lines where Peyton's like, oh, I'm gonna haunt your ass. But just she says, think about how much Jake Jigelski single dad tail, You're gonna get it right, the Jake Chigelski reference in the midst of this super traumatic talk.
It's so funny, guys.
This is why I'm always making like horrible jokes right when we're about to get really vulnerable, because like, that's what they did to me on this show. They just ingrained this morbid sense of I love it, fuck it up.
I love it, I need it because I'll, you know, I'll sit and talk about feelings all day. I need you to be like, shut up and drink this.
Drink Yin and Yang. I hope you all have your Yin and Yang partner. Uh out there in the world. We have a question, baby, what's our question here? Uh?
It's from Jamie. If you girls had a cheer coach in the earlier seasons, who would you have liked to cast for that role?
Yeah?
Fun, Okay, So I had some real cheer coaches, and I'm that really stood out to me. And I'm trying to think of, like who their celebrity counterpart was. I had Linda Harmon, who was like the tiniest little Italian woman who would just tear our asses up. I mean, she was terrifying. But we were the best. We were the best cheerleading squad.
Yeah, you lived to impress her.
Oh God, I don't know why.
And maybe this is just because we are so nostalgic for them because we've met them now and they've been so kind to us. But what I would give for like another iconic teen show actress, Like imagine if Tiffany Theeson or Jenny Garth, Yeah, had been our cheer coach, like someone from nine o two and zero or saved by the belt like Kelly Kapowski is our cheer coach.
Come on, yeah, that would have crushed for shit.
I would have flipped.
Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket, that's the wair.
No.
I like that. I mean, you know how much she meant to me in real life being able to kind of coach me after leaving this show having a All my coaches were like grown ups, like moms. They were older, but having a chick that's only like eight years older than you, ten years older than you. Yeah, they're close enough to what you're going through that they're not going to talk down to you.
Well, and it would have been such a cool person to have on the show because for anyone who doesn't want to go to a parent with a problem, you have this older peer. It's like a real intergenerational friendship. I would have really liked that.
Yeah, that's the right answer.
I love that.
In a parallel universe, our cheer leading avatars.
Are with her.
Yeah, Tiffany's the best. There's just nobody cooler.
Let's spin a wheel, all right. We have a most likely too.
Oh, most likely to buy a motorcycle without telling their partner. I mean he's not on our show, but that's your husband.
He's literally walking in the door right now, come here, we just you know how we do most likely too. On the podcast we just spun the wheel and the question is who is most likely to buy a motorcycle without telling their partner? And Sophie it's like, it's you.
I said, he's not on our show, but it's Jeffrey, hi show.
I just bought a car with us. Oh stop it, get out?
What did he did? He really?
Yeah, my husband wasn't on the show, but he almost was his uncle Keith. But is it Craig Sheffer then is a chef you know?
Yeah, Scheffer would probably do.
That because didn't we see pictures of him riding motorcycles with his daughter Willow? Yes, yeah it's chef, it's uncle Keith.
Yeah, because I don't think any of the other boys ride motorcycles.
Well, Austin always would show up to like lunch in La on a. That's right, he thought it was a motorcycle. I was like, Austin, what is this girl bike?
Kerra?
Well he had that old he bought like one of those cool old vintage Triumphs and I think it like never started and then he him and Patty did that trip to Italy and he was like, Vesmas are cool and we were all like, are they?
I listen, I'm so mean to party all that, and that just means that I love him so much. I'm rough on him.
You tease him the most, probably because we talk to him the most.
Well, yeah, yeah, it feels right. Yeah.
You gotta punch your brotherly figures every once in.
A while because he's cute. He's cute. It's like you hit the cute boy. I'm sorry. Season six, episode eighteen. Next week, searching for a former clarity fingers crossed, we survive.
The titles really make me nervous Sometimes I'm like, does that mean it's going to be a bummer. I don't know. We'll see, friends, thanks for joining us. We will. We will see if we get joy from Sofia next week. You guys, I'm never gonna get over it. I don't know why. It makes me laugh so much.
You have to go. I want to go Sofia and Sofia me.
And my town. I've never been to Bulgaria. I would like to go.
If someone can find me a town named Hillary, that's your project, America okay, gonuts.
If you liked the outdoors, we could get you a bunch of like snowboarding gear from Burton. But you don't want that.
You want me to christ I would take.
You, but I know you won't go with me, So it's fine.
I'll go one day, all right.
One time.
You heard it here, folks, she promised, I love you.
I love you, see next week us.
Hey, thanks for listening.
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