Taylor-Made w/Lindsey McKeon • EP223

I cannot believe we are at the end of season two episode Can you believe twenty three episodes of season two we have watched together? We are now on season two episode twenty three, the Lever's Dance. And should we tell what? Should we? Should we tell them now or do we wait? We do it? Tell them now? Okay, we're gonna tell you now. Guys were so very excited. Um, we may have definitely done some of our excitement prior to hitting record, which we were reminded by the nice

people who produced the show to stop doing that. So I will repeat what I said before, which is that we have been loving watching this season and all of us gals have been so blown away by none other then the iconic Taylor James played by the phenomenal Lindsay McKeon, who is my god, so pretty that it hurts to look at her and I'm saying, I'm looking at you on zoom and I can't believe this is your face. Welcome, what an intro. We're so have you here. So fun to be here and just see more and more and

more of you, guys. Lindy and I just got back from a fan convention in Paris. We had such a fun time. It was great to reconnect and just I mean, I think it's always so moving and I know you had this experience too, so with when you get to meet with fans and interacting hear their stories and um, but it was also really nice behind the scenes to just get to reconnect with Lindsay, who I haven't seen

in a while. And so yeah, when, um, when Hillary had to step out for this episode, I was like, please, please, can we bring Lindsay and please because she's so great, such a wonderful actress. We have nothing but gushing things to say about you whenever you are on the screen. So um, it's long overdue. So thanks for coming, Thank you for having me. I'm going to keep you around forever. You're the best hype squads. Okay, well, Lindsay, why don't you read the synopsis for us? I'm putting you on

the spot, Go girl on the spot. I mean my glasses for this. Okay, guys, it's part two of the season two finale. Lucas continues to spy on Dan. Deb comes back from rehab to find out Nathan is moving home, but she has other plans made some mysterious writer named Ellie Aaron decides to take a leap of love to New Zealand. Brooke leaves for the summer, but not without Lucas professing his love for her with a goodbye kiss. Dan's fate goes up and flame. This was a big episode.

This was a big episode. Before we get into that, I want to know, Lindsay, how much of this show have you actually seen? Why do you keep putting me on this? Oh, there's no wrong answer. We've all been saying since we started our podcast. We're all like, we've never seen it because we were working all the time, so we never have you seen it? Did you guys watch every episode together? How did that work? No? So we're seeing this for the first time. A lot of

these episodes are seeing for the first time. Okay, yeah, did you go back and watch your like when your work came out, when the show came out, do you watch your work or are you just sort of like, yeah, I'm sure I saw it, But that was so long ago. M hm, so long when we started what was the two thousand three I entered, that's almost twenty years ago. Hush, hush your mouth. I mean, if I do say so myself, especially as we're all talking about the weird shades of red.

Our hair was dyed, and like the Rachel Green layers, I think we've only gotten hotter. We look better now than we did then. Hats off to us. Hailey has so many layers in her hair that blowout, just like it was like the stairs up to the Statue of Liberty. There's just never ending layers. I love it. I love it.

It's also so interesting because I know I was telling you this a little bit when we first jumped on the zoom Lindsay, But for us, it's really wild, you know, looking back at a show that was made in the early aughts, that was a teen show about high school um largely centering on these young women but written mostly by older in there's stuff that can be a little tricky.

Um things that now is you know, producers and directors and women who are more in control of creative Uh, we see in ways that when we were all babies on our first show and we didn't know what was normal and what wasn't. We didn't really know back then, like in season two and something that has been so striking to us is that they brought you in to play Taylor as you know, a foil to Haley, as

as a potential wedge in this relationship. You you had some very like stereotypical like the vixen who comes to town because trouble stuff, and every scene that could have felt like a caricature, you put layers in Taylor that made it clear that this was someone who had suffered, who was acting out of pain, who was really struggling with what the world had told her she was and

was she going to believe it or not? You layered her like but it's like it's wild to watch again because like you know, we read the scripts and we'd be like, wow, it was a wild but to watch the nuance that you put in a performance that I think We've seen a lot with no nuance on other shows. I'm trying to be very diplomatic, but it's it's like, anyway, I just realized that this is an episode that Taylor's not in, so we can't gush about you to you.

So I just want to repeat all the things we've been saying about you when you haven't been in the zoom room with us, because we've all just been like really blown away by you and it's been so cool. Yeah, you brought as many layers to Taylor as there were in Hayley's hair. Well here, Oh my goodness, Oh my god, how did you? How did you get the role? Like do you remember when the audition came? What were you

doing at the time, Like, give us some backstory. I think the only thing I remember about auditioning was where, like the location it was on the wlaw WB lot in one of the trailers, Like that's literally the only thing I remember. Um. And then the idea of like, oh I booked it, you know, um. And for me it was so funny because I was like reading like Sophia Bushes on the show, and we went to preschool in kindergarten together. Oh my gosh, that's right. Our history, like,

what's the pencil story ry too? It's very weird that we all like keep ending together. It's so, isn't there up there about a pencil? Why is that in my brain? Oh? Yeah, No, Lindsay and I like, as little kids, fully got in like a playground fight and Sophia over like a toy. Either way, I find it to be hilarious. I thought I thought it was funny because my mom like recounted the whole thing to me, and I remember being so enamored with you and your mom because your mom was

an actor and was doing like huge national commercials. And I was like, wait, the girl I got in a fight with is the same girl whose mom did the Wait what? My mom was like, how do you not remember this? I was like, we were four, I don't know. I so don't remember it. My mom didn't remember it. I even went to the school and was like, do you remember this happening? They're like, no, I don't remember that happening. I was like, I thought, that's friends, I

don't remember stabbing her in the face. Oh my god. Well, by the way, I genuinely thought it was so funny. And then you know, we had some very petty, um shall we say male a d s on our show, who like, I don't know, we're weird about it. And I was like, why is everyone else being weird about it if we're not weird about it? But yeah, the world is very small. And I also just find it hilarious that, like, I don't know, apparently we got into fight over a Fisher Price toy or something on a

player like what it's so it's so silly. But a lot of like male young male guys like hitting me in the head at that school. Someone hit me in the head with like a plastic picture. I was like, glush. It was like fight for your life on that playground. HOLI. Yeah, do you remember this is Pasadena? No, this is in l A. This was off of Fairfax. It was a school called First Lutheran, which, by the way, it was like run by nuns, wasn't it. No, it wasn't little

red schoolhouse. It was Shoot, why am I blinking on the name? Fountain Day? Fountain Day? You're right, You're right, that's right. So yeah, and maybe it was like a that was the denomination. I don't know. I just remember, like I remember my favorite nun at the school was Miss Mary who taught us swim. Do you remember her? And she had like the fun familiar I do swim. I remember there is this teacher that got super angry at me and another guy I really liked, like my

boyfriend Bobby at the time. Oh my god, Bobby. Remember do you remember when Bobby taught all of us what the middle finger meant because he had older siblings. Oh my god, Bobby was a bad kid. I gotten so much trouble. I went home and I flipped my mom off and I was like, what does this mean? And my mom was like, Bobby, she was so angry. Bobby was like, if you could like do it like kind of East Coast guido in a five year old that was his hair was always slicked back, and he was

such a little boy at home. He's just like loved he loved a gel that child. Anyway, I remember, yeah, for the most part, loving all of our experiences there, and just remember when your mom would like come to pick you up from school and we'd be like, what you do today? Like we all just wanted to know, you know, well, so was the cool thing she was filming? When you saw that Sophia was on the show. Was that like, was it like, oh good, I'll get to see Sophia again. Was it like, oh is it weird?

Is it going to be weird? Like how did you feel? No? I was like, oh cool, we were like best season preschool, Like this is yeah great, I love it. And then I worry about the pencil from the crew and I was like, wait, she hates I mean, and I was like, I think this is funny. Why is everyone searching for drama? Honestly, I think people were so bored. There was nothing to do, and I think like Ian and Billy just wanted to stir up some sure, and I was like, I'm confused

as to what's happening here. And then I remember feeling weird because for the for the first many episodes you did, we never had a scene together, so I never even really got to see you. There was like one night we all went to a bar and I was like, I feel as though a wedge is happening and it's not either of our faults. I feel like I was was obbed. Now that you say that we never got we didn't really get Taylor and Brooke together, Like what a well dynamic duo that would have been on screen.

Those two energies, what a force. It's like everything that we hurricane. That would have been yes, because we were scared of us together, because like Nikki and Rachel were such clear villains, but Taylor wasn't. Taylor was like a complicated girl, but you know, she had all that lively energy and she had a little bit of that vixen in her, but she also had this like she had this vulnerability. And I think there was a very similar

thread with Brooke in that way on different levels. But um, we could never really get that Brooke partnership of matching energy with Nikki or with Rachel because they were just so bad and that's not who Brooke is. That would have been really fun. It would have been really cool, and I think there could have been like in my head, I see it almost like an old Western duel, like when two people are like, there's only room for one of us around here, and then but then they could

have wound up being like great friends. You know, that would have been great. They robbed us, they did, they did, It would have been fun. We've really realized I got robbed in season two. I got robbed of a Taylor storyline. I got robbed of making out with Hu, which, by the way, Lindsay, have you heard this. Michael Truco just dropped the bomb on us that the writers pitched that Uncle Cooper and Brooke Davis were supposed to be a couple, and I was like, I was being robbed. That would

have been so fun. This has been a season where I've been thieved from the should have ponied up. They paid him more on Battlestar. He had this off over two shows. They didn't pony up. I know you, um, but but with the connections that you got to build on the show because you guys worked together on Guiding Light before, right, didn't which is crazy? Is that just a rumor? We played the same character? She played it first? You were the baby right? No, wait, you weren't Michelle.

You weren't Michelle. You were Mara, right yeah, I was so you were Brittney Snow's character. I think No, No, that was Susan who played Mara like other girls. There were a couple of other girls, but Mara was younger. Laura something Bundy, Oh yeah, Laura Bundy. She's so talented. Have you ever seen her? On stage. Oh my god, I just saw her Juice Sweet Charity in l a if you I mean like she just she's so unbelievably talented. Anyway,

Laura Bundy, go look at Laura Bell Bundy. Okay, yeah, okay, wait, but how did you guys ever worked so right? So I'm getting no. No, we were on the show at different times. I don't know if you came on when I left. I think maybe you came on when I left, because I left a ninety No two thousand, I was probably two thousand one or something like that. Yeah, we just crisscross. I played a different in New Jersey. Yeah,

well I lived in New Dy. I was born in Florida, but yeah, I lived in New Jersey for most of my life. Jersey and we're Summit dude, I always you know, my mom's a teen neck girl. That's why I love your mom so much. Yeah, we're all Jersey girls or Jersey A Jason yet Jersey Adjason. I was in Bergen County, so we grew up in Waldwick and the fighting, yeah it fits, it's all. It's spaking Bobby. I just want

a T shirt that says we blame Bobby. So you guys didn't work together on that show, but obviously, like I knew of each other. Do you feel like when you first came to Wilmington's lens, Like, did you guys bond quickly? Did you did you go on like a walk to create a sister backstory or did it all just happen on set. I don't know if we knew of each other Um when I first got on or if we found that out, like in the duration of our time together. Um Joy was always just so nice

and welcoming. Honestly, probably the most welcoming person that Um I experienced at the time. I remember though, like we did not sister bond, because back then I was complicated like Taylor, Like not as crazy as Taylor, but pretty complicated. And I just remember Hillary, You're so sorry. Not Hillary, Bethany, Um You're so sweet. But I just remember you asking me, like one time if I wanted to knit with you, and I'm like, you're asking the wrong girl. You but

that is gorgeous, Oh my gosh, that is gorgeous. Remember the way you came on. Everybody calls me Joy, by the way you called me Bethany went that they know it's confusing because we haven't talked to each other in a while, and you know, so I get it. I have other friends who I have other friends who I talked with kind of frequently. That's still like call me Bethany, I'm I'm like whatever. I'll respond to whatever. Apparently you like that better, So that's old patterns. Yeah. I remember

when you came on that. UM, I remember being really impressed by how talented you were, and that always, that always kind of wins my heart. I think as an artist when I am working with someone, UM, I am immediately drawn to people that I really feel a m combative is the wrong word. UM. When you're when you're you're playing with each other, you're bouncing things off of

each other, and it's like a banter. Yeah, it's like it's like a like a choreographed street fight, you know, in the in the scene, and whatever I threw at you threw something back, and then I could throw something back at you and it was fun and I loved doing that with you and so and then there was an immediate respect of Oh, I really respect this person because she's really smart, and she's in the moment and

she's an artist that I can relate to UM. And then I also could sense that you were going through some stuff just in your personal life, which we all go through seasons of that, and UM, and I was too, And I think it was just that just made me kind of I don't know, I just I wanted to connect, but I also didn't want it to be there's also a part of UM when you have to play really when you do have to play specifically combative characters, you

don't always want to become really good friends. Sometimes it's helpful to like not know the person too well so that you can be honestly in the moment without feeling I don't know. I mean, I guess, I guess it could go either way, because I could still do that with my best friends too, But UM, I don't know. I feel like I'm babbling now. Someone say me, no, you know what's interesting about watching you guys talk about that kind of energy. I I remembering that year feel

exactly the same way. Like we were sort of all treated like we were grown ups, but we were all twenty two years old and like trying to figure out our places in the world, and everybody had a lot going on behind the scenes, And I remember like even with kind of how weird some of the energy was with some of those boys on set being like, ah, I don't have the skills to know how to address this or or or bring it out or talk about it.

I feel weird. I feel embarrassed at Like there there was a lot of our youth and our inability to navigate these grown up situations while everyone was treating us like we were supposed to be grown ups. That I think made us all just go like you throw something in the middle and be like do you want to knit?

Or like do you want to go for a lot? Okay, forget, I asked, and then we'd like run the other way an island in North Carolina, Like yeah, totally beautiful and awkward when when you say, um, you know you were in a moment of transition, as I think again many of us were at that time, and we didn't know how to talk about it. Did that Did that let you kind of put some of your personal um depth

under Taylor? Like like when you read the script and found out, Okay, troubled older sister kicked out of college, big reveal that you know she hooked up with Haley's husband, Like, oh, God, how am I going to ground her? Like? How did you begin to approach this person? Because you put a lot in her that wasn't on the page, and then eventually they wrote for it. Yeah. Yeah, I think honestly,

back then it wasn't even that complex. Inside of my brain, I think I was just it was something natural for me to like play into and then also like be seen and be vulnerable in that. Um is how like you guys got to see Taylor and then as I came back to it older with more life lessons, more awareness and had the scenes with Lydia and the sisters and got to actually like break down and show why Taylor is the way that she is, you know, and

explain that a little bit more. I think that's when I really like I thought about it and had awareness about it. Well, that's It's that's the testament to what a good actressy or that you're just so in the moment that you know, you just show up and it comes out of you, regardless of you know, whether there's been a lot to work with so far or not. You know, m um, I God, I wish you were in this episode. That would have been really fun to

see see Taylor. I think dev sort of took over the the mischief role in this episode, but I think we have to get to Dan first before we talk about deb Um. I don't know if they're really well, Okay, yeah, let's start. Should we start with Dan? Should we start

with Dan? Let's start with Dan. Dan. It's so many I was so confused during this whole episode because I was like, why is he Why is he doing all this stuff in front of an open window, and why is like why are people stalking him from like directly outside the window where he can see them in their cars? Like it's just so dumb to me. Um, and I kind of had that, like, he's not going to see Lucas sitting in a car in the center of the dealer.

And then Andy tiled him the deal like I own the security company that installed your cameras, and yet Dan still opens up his safe in front of the camera. It just all seemed so choreographed, and I just wasn't buying it. And then we find out it was choreographed. He was building an escape game escape room for Lucas, for Lucas and uh and he Lucas failed, of course, because Dan once again outsmart at everyone. Um, but he

outsmart at everyone in the dumbest way possible. I know. Like, I just couldn't believe that Deb wouldn't know that she owns the company and she would be taking that risk. Like, why was that a surprise? She's such a smart woman. I didn't get it. She should have signed something at one point right with her name on it. Maybe she

forgot because of all the pills. Maybe, I mean, because it's been so long, Like Dan got the As the story goes, Dan got the loan from Deb's parents, I guess right after high school or you know, when he quit playing ball midway through college to start the business. So you know, that's at least what eighteen years ago

or something. But this can't be the first time in history somebody's owned a business and someone who was a co owner or technically working for them or whatever did shady and then the owner of the business had to you know, report them. Yeah, it was liable or something. I don't know. Why wouldn't she just go to the police and be like, this was happening without my knowledge.

He would make it look like it was with her not I mean, that's the point is, is what it really plays into is this overarching theme of he does the work to entrap people. And I think that's what was so surprising, you know, for our friends at home, the three of us, while we watched this episode today, we're just kind of shocked how overtly abuse that is scary.

It is, you know, for to watch a woman, a character like Deb say we have to get out and then not know that she'll be able to UM, it kind of give me chills at moments, you know, because especially in more recent years, as we've had conversations as a society about why women often can't just leave. UM. I was like, my god, we really leaned hard in these episodes into a controlling husband storyline UM in a way that I was like, well, this doesn't it doesn't

feel like entertainment to me. This feels really dark and scary. It's it's real, it's very real, and he we they've been building up Dan's Uh. I don't know. A dastardliness is a is a light funny word for something that's much darker. But they've been they've been building up the

vileness of his character. Maybe it's more accurate over the last I mean, you guys didn't see the last episode, but that was the one where Moira Karen goes into the office to yell at him about something and he before she walks out, he grabs her and like kiss, he forces her to kiss him, and uh, and then she know she of course picks up a chair and

throws it through the giant glass window. Um. But yeah, there's just been a massive, massive pattern with him, and it's it's alarming that Nathan and deb Or even having a conversation so casually about it, like Dad's never gonna let us go, I'll find a way out. But it's not a hushed, dramatic, scary conversation. It's just it's conversation, like daily just conversation. It's so disturbing about it that

it's so normal. I wonder if they wanted to push further and further into that disturbing energy because they had the plan of setting the dealership on fire at the end of the season. Yeah, they had to make us hate him so much. They had to make everyone hate Dance so much that people would be happy to potentially you see him injured or die. He's point, He's gone through a heart attack, he like died and came back

to life. Basically, he's had so many chances where he's come back and been like I'm a new man and then nope, nope, nope, nope. So yeah, I think he's like he's outrun his his nine lives. And uh, I mean, as we know that he doesn't die, but he has lives. Even white he hates him. But we couldn't figure out why I was. I was, I was so confused as to why Dan said he was going to get Whitey kicked out as the coach because he meddled. I'm like,

what did Whitey do? He showed up to greet deb and then what we didn't in a walk and but we don't know what happened? Did they cut it out? That was a miss. That was a miss to not know what happened. Yeah, okay, what did you say? That's the next season? Maybe there but it but it was just so it probably will be revealed. It must be revealed. Unless it was there was a line of something, I mean, what do you just sounded like a ray the announcer.

It must be revealed love next week, it must be revealed. Well, I gotta say a lot happn't Yeah, that was pretty strange. I mean it was a very exciting scene. Dan and Whitey over the table each other's faces, like two old cowboys just yelling at each other. But I didn't know what was going on. We were so surprised by the rage. Yeah, and I thought Whitey might have been the one who who in the end was poisoning Dan. I love that trick, the poisoning. Oh you Scotch, here's a weird for everything

you've done. Everything you've done, This is a really weird piece of trivia. But I think I texted you and Hillary about this the other day. So that um, the woman in the like seventeen hundreds in Italy who yes selling beauty. She was selling beauty products, but they were actually tinctures and powders and things that looked like a compact for powder, you know back then, but it was

really powder poison for women to poison their husbands. So she and she had this whole ring of women who were selling selling the product for her and going out and so the men thought their wives were just going shopping for beauty products and coming home. But then there was this like massive, uh scattering of dead husbands throughout the Mediterranean region. Hey, the abusers got what was coming

to them. Yeah, apparently what a story. I know. So Deb jumped on the train of a legacy long existing. What country was this? In Italy? Italy? It was she was using? Um what was the poison? I have to go, I'll go find it. I can't remember. We'll send you the article. It's fascinating. That's super interesting. Uh. But yeah, I'm for sure it was Deb. I thought for a second maybe it was Keith to the dealership the end, but I think it. I think it's dead that black

especially would black leather on. Yeah, especially because they gave us the misdirect in the Dan and Whitey fight. Whitey is like you're going to burn you know. They want you to think it's Whitey, but it's not. It's too obvious. And I think especially um Barbara has such a beautiful opportunity in this episode, and she plays the scene so well, you know, coming home and realizing it's more manipulation on Dan's part, and for her that line in the sand

of Dan told Nathan it was all his fault. It's like there's nothing she won't stop at to protect her son and it and it's really interesting. You know her talking about being very clear for the first time. She's um, she's determined in a way we haven't seen before. Yeah, for sure, she feels she's she's like the Italian poison lady. She's ready. Yeah, she's finding a tradition of poisoning wives. I love it. I love it. I thought she was beautiful in the episode. I also thought James was so good.

He Um, he does this thing sometimes where he really does feel like a sixteen year old boy. He leaned I mean two years that's probably why, Um, but he would, he would really lean into that like young boy kind of combination of anger and hurt and and he was never ashamed to show that, to be vulnerable like that.

And you see him feeling like his world is falling a partist to move back in with Dan, you know, he finds out Lucas's lied to him, he finds out Haley is Cynthia nor Papers, it's all it's all just painful and and like early days, Nathan kind of comes out Yeah, where he's got boundaries. He knows how to stand up for himself. He may not have known how to use those boundaries before, but he's growing into his own as a young man. It's it's cool to see.

I love that for Nathan. Yeah, and when he's in pain, it makes you sad. You're like, oh no, not more, not more for for our guy. I'm just asking our producers what the Tennessee Williams quote was, because I'm liking the quotes that we're having on these episodes. The last one was the George Bernard Shaw quote that said there are two great tragedies in life, to lose the desires of one's heart and then to gain them. And uh, and I like this Tennessee Williams quote too, which I'll

tell you what that is in a second. But I think it's kind of fun to talk about the concept of of what these are. But in the meantime, Brooke, can we talk about Brooke? She had the best dialogue in this episode. You had so much it was so fun. I really did, okay, Brooke. Was this the first appearance of hose over Bros. I don't know, I really it really might have been, or maybe it just hit hard. We're going to need the fans to answer that question. Part of part of me wonders if when Brooke invented

the selfie in season one with the polaroid camera. I'm going to hold on to that really forever. Uh if she said it to Payton, I don't remember, but it we all when we heard when we heard it went Brooke, I mean she had Okay, first Lucas, then Jake, now Nathan.

I guess Slutty is in season funny. And then because I'm leaving tomorrow for the summer, maybe forever, and my best friend is having WHU do winnos in poor play with kind of married guys, which is a kind of a fun tie in with her walking in on When you didn't watch this last episode, Haley, Brooke and Lucas came to New York to see Haley and they walk in and she's on the couch doing the exact same thing that Peyton and Nathan were doing with Chris, like

giggly and tikoli and stuff um. And then this one phantom feelings like when you lose a leg and try and scratch it. Lucas was my gangering, infected amputated leg. I really loved it all. I loved when they gave me that kind of comedy to work with. It was just always such a blast. Well, what I loved is in the end when Lucas kisses you. That did surprise me.

That was a nice It was a nice surprise. Uh. It's a really good scene, especially after how intensely uncomfortable the dream sea because we all you guy, we all forgot that that was a dream, and so we're sitting here going, this is ridiculous what guy wrote she and what a fantasy she's in her cheer lady universe. Like we were so mad, and then we were like, oh, yeah, because it's a teenage boys dream, got it cool? Okay?

And so it made it made the scene between the two of us, between Brook and Lucas so sweet because you've seen this very overtly stereotypical dream and then the hilarious comedy of like the cold shower and they're bickering almost like siblings because they lived together at this point, and then the vulnerability and and was was surprising, and I thought, was so he he did such a nice job in that scene. I just really he felt very

real and authentic to me. And uh, and I really liked to watching you start the scene in a really happy, funny, playful place and then have that immediate switch into something really vulnerable. I always love when actors do that. It's fun to see it because it's like it's happening in real time. So great. Yeah, and it's interesting because it

felt like a big payoff. Brooke is growing and learning to be more in touch with her feelings and more responsible with her feelings, and she really is trying to put on a brave face for everyone, thinking that Lucas still has feelings for Peyton. She she kind of offers that up to Peyton. She she's really trying to lean into this is the lesson and that wasn't good for me, and it really hurts, but I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna

grow from it. It's so much effort for a young girl, and then all of her sort of strength, the mask she's been putting on of like I can handle this. He pierces that when he kisses her in the end, and I was surprised, you know, not remembering the episode at at the you know, the reaction to it, how how much it threw her. I was like, Oh, I like this. I like the way we played this. Have you guys ever had that happen to you where you're like,

it's just the worst timing. Ever, and someone tells you drops like a feelings bomb on you like that, and you're just like, uh, what do I do? No? Never, I feel like people would be so intimidated to drop of feelings. Probably I'm like, no, I could either like get it out of that or lindsay ge you know. Yeah, I don't think I've ever that's ever happened to me either, And it's making me think of what a big deal it is for a high school boy to do something

like that. I think I probably have been the one dropping feelings bombs on people, especially my high school career, and you know, with romance, Oh my god, I definitely went through it once. And I will say like, I don't know. I don't know if it's the the sort of empathetic nature of my relationships with people, but I for sure wound up in a relationship once because someone was like, but I'm in love with you, and I was like, oh my god, this must be it, Like wow,

I just didn't see it. And then I was like no, wait. I was like, but I don't. I don't have it's not my responsibility to help you with this feeling. I don't I don't feel this feeling. I'm confused, how did I get here? It can That's why they call it love bombing, because it can really Like what did you? Says Bobby on the playground. I was like, why are you doing this to me? I just want to go on the swings and handle the feelings Bob. I can't

handle on Bob. Oh my god. There were so many big feelings in this episode also, I need to say, especially because of how beautiful that in sequence was, Lavinia by the Veils, so emotionally every song in this episode is so good. Yeah, I want a c D of just a c D. I want to I want to see I would like a laser disc. Please? Could someone make me a mix tape of this soundtrack? Just this episode? It's so great. It was so good. I actually found an old tape player the other day, like a like

a cassette deck. Yeah. It was like a thing that's you know that opens up and you put you slide the tape in and then you close it play welcome Yet what was it called? No, it's for recording. It's like got a big speak the rectangle with the speaker on that side. Yea love it that reminds me of like the era of risky business. Oh yeah, I couldn't find any tapes though, who keeps tapes around? You guys still have any tapes? I don't know. I think I

threw away. Yeah. I went through like a real Marie Condo phase before Marie Condo was a thing, and I just was like, these these these like books of CDs are making me feel stressed. It's the opposite of sparking joy. And I like took them all apart and recycled everything. I was like, I gotta get out of here, and now I kind of regret it. I'm like, man, I had like a pretty wild c D library in high

school and maybe I should have kept it, but probably not. Well, this episode, we had some amazing songs in this episode. What where's the list? I want to see? Is that in our well? Well, Andrew Paul Woodres did that really emotional cover of Fight for Your Right to Party. It was like a song on a guitar in the beginning. That was so good. And then we went into the Wreckers Um we went into that Susie Saw Song Petrified

to be Godlike and then Cracks in the Sky. I mean everything Audio Slave, It was all just so good and poignant, and I don't know our our musical supervisors, I think, especially by the end of season two, had gotten our show in such a good place, known for being a place that broke bands and broke new songs, and so I feel like suddenly we were entering into this era um where we really had kind of the pick of the litter in terms of music, and every moment is so good, which not every show gets that.

I was like, how did you guys rights to all of these songs? That was our thing? It became more thing because you know, gossip Girl had the glam element. They had this sort of the younger crowd Sex in the City version, Like the kids that weren't allowed to watch Sex and the City were allowed to watch gossip Girl, but you know, and they had that that was the kind of their thing. So we got music, which I love. I'm so much happy about that because it's just some

have so much more substance to it than fashion. Um, God forbid of fashion designer listen to this and think that I'm bashing fashion, because I do love fashion. There is I guess substance in the art of that. But you know what I'm saying, in terms of the music. I love that we brought that on our show. Um, are you musical at all? Lindsay, m hmmm, not at all. Now.

I took singing lessons for for a very short while, and I was able to get to the point where I could hear, you know, the actual resonance that like was me. That came for me one day and I was like, who is that? That's incredible? But you didn't follow through with it. You didn't want to keep going. I was like, this is gonna take so long. It's just note. I'm just like, I can't It wasn't. My thing was like, what are your outlets? Like? For me singing a musical, you know, and for a lot of

musicians that is the outlet. So for someone who's not musical, what do you love to do? There's like a pole dance sensual creative, artistic dance that I do with a group of women that is but not awesome. Me in the fullness of like my being and my power and my sensuality is like next level. And then you get to likes with women while doing that is like that's where like the most of my joy comes from. Is it a class or do you do performances where ideally

we would like to do performances. Um, during COVID we lost our studio and so now women have like formed little smaller into together and tomorrow we're going and doing like one of our first workshops at a new kind of Moroccan studio. Whoa, but it's our dream to have a studio that also has like you can have tea and you can have a sauna and you can you know, yes, ship type of a thing, and then also to get on stage with it or do you know, kind of

intimate performances. Wow, that's cool. It's you've got to be really strong for that. Pole dancing is I've done a few aerial arts classes. I've been starting to get into that. I think I've probably done like ten classes now and I'm I love it. Uh, It's been hard for me to be consistent because I travel so much. But um, it's requires so much more strength than you think it does. Um, I want it gets used to it. Obviously it's much easy,

kind of second nature. But yeah, because it's how long did it take before it started to feel really easy? Not easy? But know, like so long ago and I've gone through so many different iterations of it. Like sometimes sometimes I don't even do any poll tricks and I'm

just like, you know, using the floor for everything. UM. I remember I went through like I think there were six levels you could get through, UM, and I like learned the tricks and could do cool things, but it hadn't really integrated smoothly into my body and my fluid conversation yet. Um. I had left and came back, and then I really feel like I figured out who I was through dance and the story like my being and

my body's telling. And then that happens sometimes like nature just kicks in and I'll be upside down on the pole and I'll be like, I don't know how I got here. It's just muscle memory, and that's just what like my erotic creature wanted to do at the time. So you're doing like what Jennifer Lopez did in Hustlers, I mean kind of. I mean that is amazing because wow she was wow. Um yeah. Yeah. But it's also

it's like it's also tribal. It's also primal and like you know, what we used to do, probably the way women used to move when we were in Ville and we were telling story and song and dance, so it has the very visceral and it's interesting too because so much of women's connection to their bodies has been eviscerated

because of patriarchal shame. Like sex, sex is bad, sensuality is bad, but it's that's also so often through the male gaze and like to get women back into as your The words you're using make me feel so inspired, Like it's primal feminine energy. It's powerful, it's sensual, it's it's like when you hear people talk about goddess energy, like recognizing the sacred of the feminine is it's so much more elevated and spiritual than many of the ways

I think women have been quote allowed totally. And when you watch women in their bodies this and be embodied in this, you realize why it was so threatening. M hm is the most miraculous, powerful thing you've ever seen in your entire life. And Holly in a wonder this had to be squelched, you know, it was very like whether it just wasn't the time or whatever, it's going to take a really strong masculine to be able to handle the of the true feminine. Yeah, I agree with

that for sure. Yeah, that's well. Talking about another badass female. Cheryl Lee made her appearance in this episode, and she's got much more to come. Ellie Harp, I mean, wow, I was so excited for Laura Palmer. I mean I was like totally geeking out when she came on the show. Was super excited. But um, yeah, I was super stoked

for her to come. Yeah. And and it was so cool too to see Peyton in this moment where she's having a hard time and trying to keep it all together and Ellie comes in and and the way that Cheryl played it, she she kind of like got under Peyton's mask really quickly and with matched her energy in a similar way that most adults don't. And and you see it like her choices made this kind of maternal connection feel right Like in the reveal at the end, you go, oh, this makes all the sense in the world.

And I just I thought that was so beautiful. My name is Elizabeth, like your middle name gave me chills. That was nicely done. Oh I'm so excited. Also, how cool to know the origin story of the jacket, Like Hillary has talked so much Lindsay on our show about you know, she has that jacket from that's like her favorite memento from One Tree Hill, Ellie's leather jacket. And and I I forgot. I knew it was hers, but I forgot about the whole Courtney love story being this

rock and roll journalist. And I was like, oh my god, Peyton's jackets, Courtney loves jacket like it was so it was so fun great. I loved it. Um, guys, I think we've got like eight minutes or something left with lindsay, so, can we do some fan my questions? Yes, Okay, let's do it. Where are they? Um, let's see from Heather. Is it common on TV shows to have different directors for each episode? If so, why is that? And if not, why did y'all seem to have so many? That's a

good question. I just I liked this question. You guys have so many? Um, yeah, it's common. A different director usually does different Yeah. Network to have a very much smaller pool. Well so, And the reason is it's it's about the way we shoot, because when you're shooting a network show, you are filming while the show is airing, and for the folks at home, Um, directors don't just

come in and start directing on day one. If a show shoots for eight days, um, like ours did, the directors also get eight days of prep, which is when they go on location scouts, they meet with the dps, they visit every set, they select all the wardrobe for

their episode. They're working on the script, So they have eight days of prep, eight days of shooting, and then they have another eight days of post production when they are editing their episode, you know, cutting the scenes, picking the music, and so it actually takes much longer to direct an episode than just the amount of time that

filming takes. And so, um, the the person who is directing let's say Episode eleven is prep being while episode tennis shooting, and then likewise it continues, and so there has to be a different director in each episode so that they can rotate through the season and stay on schedule for you know, some cable shows like Joys talking about if it's like let's say it's a six episode mini series, they have all six episodes written and locked at job done before exactly before they start shooting, and

then they'll have one director do that whole project for like three months. Um. But in network TV, they rotate so they can do pre they can do prep shooting and post in blocks. I also didn't realize you guys were of the era of doing twenty two episode. It was I don't think anybody, No, I don't think so, I don't know. We we survived barely, barely, which feels crazy. Oh, this is funny for Olivia, she said. Olivia says, what do you do when you're supposed to shoot all day

but you wake up sick? I clearly had a cold in the last episode. You could hear my voice. Did you do you get sick days? And do they have to cancel shooting or film a different scene if you can't make it? Uh, it depends on how sick you are. You just basically have to take some suit of ft or whatever. Yeah, I mean if you The thing is, don't come to work if you are if you have the flu. I've never seen anybody come to work with the like a proper flu where you're you have growing

up and like a fever. I had all this stuff going on, and I was like, you're still you work, You just work ya? Wow? Yeah, okay, well yeah. I The only time I remember us ever changing the schedule in nine years was when one of our coworkers got really sick and was in the hospital for two days. And unless literally they expect you to come to work unless you're in the hospital. And I actually on a show years ago, I was working in Chicago. I had meningitis.

I spent thirty six hours in the emergency room. I was really really sick. Um And they literally came and pulled me out of the hospital and took me to work. They were like, it doesn't matter. You gotta stand in the corner. You've got to be in the scene. We don't have anything left to shoot that you're not in. Oh, it was it was insane, um. But you know, it's it's kind of that's such a lack of creativity. Sorry,

it's a lack of creativity. But it's also you know, the a show is kind of like it's a bureaucracy. It's so big, it's hundreds of people doing a job, so there isn't really room to miss one person. It throws the whole machine off. Um, So it can be really complicated, which is get complicated. Yeah, yeah, no, understand, it's not like theater. I do wonder how um us getting a little clearer on public health with the pandemic and how actually crazy it is that people used to

go to work when they were sick. I wonder how that will affect our industry, if it will, if it'll matter. I don't think it's crazy to go to work when you're sick. I think like it's just part of be Getting sick is part of being alive. It's it's part of life. But if you're like actively contagious, it's so disrespectful, Like, yeah, everybody knows, like everybody. That's the thing is, everyone knows

if you show up sick. Everyone knows that you're there and you're sick, so they just take away from you. And you know, you just don't do your kissing scene or whatever, and or you just like load up on vitamin C and you're like, I'm in a scene with somebody who's sick today. I hope I don't catch it. Yeah, well, anyway, we have a wheel. We have a most likely two

wheel to spin. Yeah, we don't know the answers on public health everybody, but we do have a wheel and we're excited to spend it with Lindsay Okay, who is most likely too? That's funny when the worst cook in America. Would this actually be like Taylor or Rachel? I just don't see. Taylor is the kind of girl who spends a lot of time like nurturing a meal, probably microwaves an egg or something. Yeah, a little quick dish, I

will say, so you don't feel alone in it. Brooke Davis did set a turkey on fire and season seven over Thanksgiving. Yeah, no, I love to cook, but no, my alter ego was bad in the kitchen for comedy sake, what about in real life? Who's a terrible cook in real life? I don't actually know. I'm impress all of us in the kitchen. Who's bad? I used to never cook until the pandemic and then I really got into it for a while. Oh really, how did you start? Did you like download an app or what was it? No?

I had a girlfriend who is a chef, and she started making a couple of dishes around me, and I was like, this is so good, and she's like it's so easy. So I just started making what she made, and then I started incorporating a whole bunch of different things, and I was like, this is really cool and I'll just wing it. Yeah, that's a hard one to answer. With actors because artists are typically creative. You know, I don't know, I would think that extend. Yeah, that kind

of extend just to me, but say love me. Well, um, it's been fun speculating, Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us. I'm so glad that you came. Thank you. Next week we've got episode one of season three. We're finally out of season two. Lu Yah. Okay, that was a rough one. So next one is called like You Like an Arsonist. I think this is a pretty famous episode, actually,

I think so. I'm excited to see what happens. And Lindsay, I really hope that you'll come back and join us for for more, especially episodes that you're in, because I would like to talk to you then, love to do that, especially with our scenes and stuff too, and that would be wonderful. Yeah, you know what, you really have to be here for us, that the pool scene, the big oh my god. Yes, oh lots more to come. Thank you guys for joining us. We'll see you next week. Back.

Thanks everybody. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at drama Queens O t H or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We all about that high school drama Girl, Drama Girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a rod at our comic girl cheering for the right team. Mcqueens Dreelase my gol Rap Girl Fashion,

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