First of all, you don't know me all about that high school drama, Girl drama, girl, all about them high school queens.
We'll take you for a ride.
And our comic girl cheering for the righteen drama Queens jis go up girl fashion, which you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, Girl drama, Queen drama, queense drama, Queens drama, drama, Queens drama queens. Guys. Hello, everyone, you're all joining us in the middle of our conversation because every time we get together we can't stop gabbing. But we're talking about season six, episode nineteen, Letting Go air
date March thirtieth, two thousand and nine. Paul, would you be so kind as to read in the chat there is a synopsis of this episode. Perhaps, oh my god, check yes with your episode, guys. Paul is here because he directed this episode baifully uh, and we're here to talk with him about it, in with you and all the things.
Well, that is so sweeter. I do have the synopsis right in front of me, and the director's name is Bill correctly, which is fantastic. Do a gig and they give me an E or an extra S or something more.
You've earned all those letters, Babe, take them.
The synopsis, Julian makes Brooke a startling offer. We know who Julian is. What a wonderful later. By the way, I did watch that on the you know they do on YouTube a kind of like you know, the highlights of the season. You know, when you wan like a three minute things of that episode, and you know, he's so good looking. It's like, I really hate him. Anybody who comes on the show that's that good looking.
I just was just good, isn't he? Yes? I mean, yes, of course, of course.
And it was a really fun episode. But Lucas brings Nathan, Scott and Jamie to an important place from his past, and we also see him shooting baskets and that great Mustang that they had in the.
Right.
I mean, I'm sure Jeffrey loves fastbacks. That's one of my favorite cars.
Whole garage, Paul. It's just he does. And he always gets stick shift cars that I can't drive because I'm a nerd girl, and I'm like, I want to learn.
Fine, that's alert. That's a good tactic for the future for me.
That's smart.
Peyton prepares for the future while Pyton prepares Sam and Jack take a stand against the principal who fired Hayley. Awkward storyline.
It was so fun.
Isn't that an awkward storyline?
Yeah?
So imposed. I mean I understand what they're trying to go for, but it was very confusing from a directing point of view to help tell that story because it felt shoved in and it felt like this is somebody else's version of what school's like. It's not what kids experience.
Right, Yeah, it was. There was a lot that was forced about that.
Okay, we'll get into that, and I'm not trying to cut down. I mean, look at you did ten years of a series. It's not everything's going to be genius, right.
We like to giggle about the left turns that tree Hill takes from Tarya.
What a polite way of By the way, I have so many like things. I mean, listen, I almost like I didn't know how to re because I thought when I read the episode where the Dog Ate My Heart, which is the episode before this, right.
We just missed it. We just missed it happen.
Okay, Well I thought it was a joke and I called Joe I think Joe Devola and laughed and said, you guys are hilarious. The real script I got to study for tomorrow and he was like, yeah, no, we did, And I was like, oh, I mean I really I like to prepare. He's like we did because he was directed that episode, right.
Yeah, yeah he did. That's right.
We could talk about that one too, because I missed last week. So any antel you want to give us like that mess?
Yes?
Please?
Then let's quickly before I'll finished a centinemiatica question and one makes more takes Mormon on a road trip to get his mind up. Milling happy to see those two have a story that builds together from like the main six, because I think they're great characters and they deserve that time on the screen. I thought I was happy about that one. I love dirinking those two together. They're good chemistry. But did you I hear often and I read often, and I shouldn't do this because I'm sensitive When I
read online. Sometimes I just want to go to the bathroom and shut the door and cry because people are very.
Mean, right, who mean to us? Never?
I think a lot of times people don't consider that we actually read stuff they write about it, and we do because like, what did you think and I go, well, I think you could have eaten a few more salads. So you know, I'm like, you're right, but don't say it.
Don't internet etiquette. Don't be a dick.
Oh yeah, that's I didn't read that when I got on the internet. Doesn't pop up.
No, that pop up should be there. But this is an infamous episode for you.
It is because a lot of people ask me if I feel that the show jumped the shark with the heart because it's cartoonish in a way. It's not a realistic way that the heart's going to come in in a in a in.
A you know, in a lunchbox so smart, you know, eat candy first or what not, and then the dog's just happening to be in an er room and run over and have a nice slate heart snack.
It felt like a lot of things had to be wrong for that world to work. Yeah, yeah, but it was cute and it's talkable and it's you know.
It's talkable. You know, that's a great way to put it.
Oh yeah, everybody was talking about it. That was a very water cooler moment.
But wasn't That was right about the time we had gone through a year or two of what was the show that made fun of us all the time? Talks to Soup. Oh yeah, Talk made fun of us all the time, and at first we weren't in on the joke. They were just strictly making fun of us. And this felt one hundred percent like bait. This was this was us saying like, oh.
Hold on it the whole segment on it.
Did you see that John Oliver anyway? You mean yeah, wait, John Oliver did? I thought it was the other guy, Joel mchill.
No, it's it's it's you know, John Oliver from the.
Right. Yeah, John Oliver started on John Stewart show.
Oh oh, that's so fun.
I feel like you need to have a secondary reel that is just people reacting to the things that you've done, as Dan Scott, because to have that much of an impact on pulp culture, no, like all the dance consto realized the commentary attention. Yeah, yeah, listen, you're dastardly made the headlines.
That's why I brought my own audience to the to the podsam.
Yeah, you got Jim Jones looking over your shoulders there.
God.
So okay, So how do you go from having to commit to something so bonkers in the last episode and turn in some very heartfelt, you know, earnest performances as you're saying goodbye to everybody. Yeah, then directing this one, it's very little prep time for you, given how much your workload was in the last episode.
You guys all shared the same burden I did. It wasn't unique unto me. I know you guys have had to do the same thing, So I'm probably approach it the same way you did, which is I never I take my work seriously, but I don't take myself seriously and giving yourself some humility and going okay, I made a big mistake. And actually I've never talked about this before. I'll tell you one thing. I did a serious work.
The first series I was ever the co star of the star was with Elizabeth Grayson on a series, a spin up series of The Highlander called The Raven and I had been fortunate enough that they decided to make it her and I was originally supposed to be just her series, and then they brought me in because they wanted a nice sort of like somebody moment, right, Yeah, thing, she was an immortal and I was a cop and I made the mistake of going to I did a
lot of research. I drew Grove around with like detectives, and I did some cop research and I went into Toronto Police Department Detective Union and did all this stuff and I was, you know, living in la But I got up there and started the series and I was like, I'm going to make this the most important acting job of my life, and I'm going to show everybody to
whom whatever it is. And I got ahead of my skis a little bit because on the first episode they had a body falling into the top roof and landing on a car and denting the roof. And I was this arrogant young actor thinking I'm going to make this an emmy word when you show, and it was. It was misguided in a positive way, but poorly executed because I was young and immature and didn't understand the nature
of the business and many things. And I had to go up to it to them and apologize too, because I really had to come to Jesus moment on that I said, that doesn't look like a kind of car their body would hit, As if I'm an expert what cars look like when bodies hit them.
From oh wow.
I went, look, that's a tiny dent man. That body would have gone right through. And the director goes, yeah, but you know, maybe not. And I was kind of like, well, I can't be in the scene if that car doesn't look properly down. And the director goes, okay, then you're not in the scene. Oh, and I went what And I was too arrogant to go, well, wait a minute, don't come me out of the scene. So he cut me out of the scene. And I was one of the stars of the show. And I walked my trailer like, oh, angry,
and you know, I'm righteous about this. And I sat on my trailer and it seeped in very quickly, like hey, dummy, you know you're not bigger than the show. You're not bigger than anybody. Your ideas are just ideas, and everybody has a right to ideas. Yours can be wrong. And I sat there and I kind of went back and I telled him and said, hey, look, you know I might have misspoke. Whatever. He goes, okay, go back to work, and he was super cool about it, like he knew
how to have a young actor. And so I wish that, you know, I hadn't done it, but I really needed the lesson.
Yeah.
Yeah, especially in television because everything moves so fast. There's just it's not the same amount of time when you're on a film and you can go and you have days to rehearse and you all this time. With actors, you.
Just have to script ahead of time for months.
Yeah, that's right. So TV comes in and on episodes like these, even when you're working, you just have to take the two weeks to prep. I would say that probably one of the biggest benefits for any of us as actors jumping in to direct is that the show was sort of running itself at that point in so many ways, Paul, did that feel like did it make it more like present more challenges? Did it make it
more interesting? The fact that it was Were you able to focus on other things as a director instead of trying to create a whole new environment and all that, you know what I mean? Yeah, when you jumped in on episodes, because like, there was so much about it that was kind of running itself. So yeah, I gave you an opportunity to to do new things, try new things. I mean, what what did you enjoy about that?
Well? My mindset for directing Montree Hill, and I think you and I have had what a thousand conversations about you know this? So it's it's it's a it's a very nice it's almost like a softball question because you probably know my answers.
But the audience doesn't.
Oh, I forget, there's people listening.
People just really want to know.
I just love the Hillary's wallpaper and I can't get over it as I.
Speak, slithering over here.
It's great, it's it's this is. My goal wasn't to try to influence the creators of the show, the writers that you know, anybody else in that sphere when I got to the set. My goal was to encourage the actors to leave their complacency after playing the role like I had many times I walk into scene, I go, Okay, it's the same kind of dollog I said last episode, But you know what, let me try and make it fresh and let me find some nuance. It was to
encourage them to challenge themselves. And I remember many instances with everybody was to say, yeah, we've seen that. What else do you got?
Like?
What is new in this? How do we challenge ourselves to make this a different experience so that we can light that fire again, because I want the actors to come in and be inspired by well not me particularly, but by the freedom to know that I'll let you try something you didn't try before because I want to
see it too, because I'm a fan. And that was the goal was to push those buttons so that when we would get when I get phone calls from like the network or from even the creator, sometimes it's like, oh, that was a great performance you got out of somebody said, how was them? They just need permission to go there?
That's nice? All well, you can tell there's certain scenes in this episode that had the Paul hallmark on them, especially like when Skills was waking mouth up and you just let the camera live on mouth after Skills left the room and watched him like just like fuddle with the pillows and try to get back to sleep. You let actors rest or linger in a moment longer than other directors would, just to see like what are they gonna do?
Acting class? Remember when we were all in acting classes.
Hillary did where did June Stein? I studied with June Stein, who was a professor at Columbia. She was one of the original actors in what is It? The Miss Firecracker pageant? John she was like pals with John Tatro and all them, and she did my scene study class and put me through the ringer.
What was her thing? What was her thing? She owned to She really was.
About like choices and being able to give as many choices as possible so that our directors, our editors had things to play with. And so for me, I I really was happy that before I went in One Tree Hill, there was an adult in my life that was telling me, cool, you got choice A, would choice be and choice C, and then also have a choice D just ready to go in case somebody asks for it. And that as you know, how old was I eighteen nineteen when I
was working with her. That was a really simple way for me to understand what I needed to bring to the table when I hit a set.
Do you remember that? Did you see the Bradley Cooper interview on the Round Table when he was nominated now Mastro He referenced Vince Vaughan on wedding Crashers and he said, the best lesson I ever learned in acting was watching
Vince Vaughn and wedding Crashers. But Bradley Cooper only had a very tiny role, if you remember, And he said, Vince Vaughn would go take after take and everything was completely different than the last take, and he was willing to fail, like e didn miserably fail in front of the crew and cast. Didn't care, just want to keep trying things. And he said that bus lust and I ever had that kind of reminds me of what you were just explaining.
Well, and my you know, my acting partner in that class is now really successful, you know, executive, executive producer and showrunner. He did Grace what is it? Grace Jones? No, he did what is it? What just came out? Daisy Jones? And the sixth Oh yeah, he did Shrinking Like James Ponsol is a brilliant director, but he was a brilliant actor before he was a director. And we used to
just like try all the time. And so it was really fun to come up with someone like that and then see the things that they're making now that are all choices, it's just character driven choices.
Yeah, we all felt the permission to do that from you. I know that I had studied on Guiding Light. I mean that was you know, what I mean, Like, I just did high school theater and I showed up on I got pilots and stuff. Since I was fourteen sixteen, I was doing things and lots of Broadway training in small theater classes around New York and stuff, but nothing uh substantial or of note or name. I was just picking up jobs wherever I could and learning along the way.
Set education is so ill for it, it is final way. Most colleges won't let you work. We talked with MICHAELA. McManus about that. Once you get into NYU, or you get into somebody with an esteemed acting program, they don't let you audition for outside things until you graduate because they want you to complete the program.
Did you have that experience, Paul, when you were training or did you even have active trait because you were basketball? And then remind me what happened.
God just touched me with talent.
Brilliant looks the brilliant shedding gold as he walks down the street.
Trophies, he said, looks brains naw, I can only pick one.
I like it. It was so easy.
Where did you learn that? Where did you learn all the thing about options and being able to as a director give that permission to actors. How did you know about that?
I mean, I have to say that I think a lot of us don't give enough credit to our our environment growing up as children. You know, I grew up with a father who was a you know, an alcoholic, a very difficult man who found God late in his life and converted to a very dogmatic religion, and you know, but he was tough. He was a tough man. He was the NHL won the Stanley Cup. My mom was an artist who, you know, who was unsatisfied. So that sort of like longing for something more than we are
was kind of built into me. And so I think when I started playing basketball, it was kind of a way to get away from, you know, this very kind of normality of my life, and I just longed for things and and I think when I got into acting, you know, I got hired very quickly when I moved to Hollywood because I was a basketball player with the Canadian national team and I came to America and I wanted to try out the NBA and some other pro leagues,
and I started getting commercials, like I did twenty commercials in one year. You know, back when they used to pay and me hired me to do a commercial with him and Magic Johnson. I did a commercial with him and Tim Hardaway, and I started in Kentucky and write Chicken and then the Diet Croke and I started doing all these commercials and I was like, Oh, this shit's easy, man, I just got to And then I realized, Oh, there's no acting in this. It's just all kind of like being a basketball guy.
Sometimes it was wandling in some ways.
Yeah, it was like I hit the description of what they were looking for. But then I got humbled very quickly. I've told the Space Pops prop story. I studied with a Daryl Hickman, who who was whose brother Wasdbe Gillis in the in this series, and and Daryl was a very intense guy. And then I started with Stephen Gosh, I'm embarrassed about these these names. But when I really started to learn the disciplines, when I joined a repertory Shakespeare company and did several seasons with them and got
the discipline. And it's when I learned how to smoke. Because he goes, stay away from the catering table, have one of these and I was like, oh yeah, and you he goes, you won't be hungry and it's good for you. Oh my god, this is like nineteen twenty five or whatever it was. And so I started smoking, you know, because of theater, and we all smoked in theater because.
Where are part of the uniform.
Yeah, we weren't allowed to do and doing you know Steve oh yeah, Stephen Book was my acting coach, and we weren't allowed to act, were't allowed to take jobs. Carlo Kucina was in that class. And more more, Cheerney was in that class. Oh wow, lot of great actors came out of that class. I studied with there, and then I went to New York and there was a very very very interesting acting coach there that's kind of famous, who Kevin Klein uses and I worked with him for
a while and he was tough. He was very much like everything that you're doing is because you're trying to do the writer's job for them. Don't do that. Don't do the writer's job. They have their job. You have your job. They give you the words. Your job is to is to know the words and do everything against them you can. Because so much of the work that everything underneath that is going to be what's called layered
life and give them context. And when you say I shot scenes and I leave the camera on, it's because of this thing that you guys know called you know, that private moment. And we learn more about a character through private moments when they're alone and nobody's watching, then we do when they're in a conversation with somebody.
Yes, I love that, and that's what Hillary's talking about. You leave the camera for the actor to just have a moment instead of cutting away. You leave that in the edit, and we learned so much more about where a character's coming from. It's lovely.
But even if they don't, if you cut it right, I always felt like I could learn something that I could take into the next take.
Yeah, you still carry it with you in your box, right.
So, like if the scene ends on mouth putting those pillows over his head and just like resisting what is being offered to him, you know, you yell cut and then two seconds later you go into the next take and he's still got that energy in his body of
resistance that you let him have. And it reads in this I like, you know, Hayden is one to have lots of quiet moments, and so I appreciate that we got to just settle into those because our show was so montage and fast paced and there's eight million characters, so to let people have that space is rare. Yeah, well, we have.
Those to give credit to the post production team too, because at the end of the day they can veto oar cut so they can decide and if they see there's value there, you know, we you know, I always say that, you know, we have to really in this meetium particularly, we have to have so much credit to post production, and people understand, well, we hand them all these ingredients and we go here, you go, good luck, let us know what it turns out. Yeah, yeah, and we do a terrific job. You know.
Yeah, well you did a terrific job in this episode. I really, actually really enjoyed this episode. There were a lot of pieces coming together, you know, the last one that we had. It felt like there were a lot of new open doors, a lot of endings and open doors beginnings were available now and things were starting to progress in a lot of these storylines. I loved your use of long lenses. There were so many long lens
shots in this episode that were really beautiful. The lighting was amazing, and I know you were working with Pete, right, Pete KOs was on this.
Yeah.
I had a question about when you are working in a television format like this where the schedule is really fast, when you set up scenes, are you paying Are you walking into a set paying attention to where the lighting is, where the things and the sets are, and then you ask the actors to be in that area so you
can set your shots up in those places? Do you approach things wherever it's just a free for all and it's totally up the lighting guys to set things up where the actors go, which sometime times can be a challenge on a tight schedule like we had. How do you approach that where you can still be free and artistic but also keep within the timeframe.
Oh what a terrific question, because anybody who wants to get into this industry has to struggle with this because when you walk your sets before your actors are there, and we all do that, we walk them with our tech crew, right, remember those walks.
You know?
So I was thinking this, and I was thinking this and goes, yeah, that's too flat of a background. You mind want to do this with this? And you know that we can't put lights there because we have a kinnots over here, and they won't fit because you were going to am I going oh okay, So what I needed to do was right.
And then the actors would walk in and they'd be like, I don't want to be over there. Why am I over there? I should be on this side of the room.
Actors like me, you would do that.
There's no other actor on the show except maybe me. You would walk in and I'd go, so I had to say, you're making popcorn and you come over here, You're like, going, you just have me popcorn. I don't like popcorn? What if I have? What if I'm making the.
Jerry Cublie, you should make me popcorn if she doesn't have time to eat it. I don't have time to eat popcorn. Why would I be making it if I don't have time to eat? It doesn't any sense.
Well, I remember, I don't remember exactly what this was. There was a scene in the kitchen one time in the Big House where you were. I was saying, well, what if you're you're you're trying to find something you can't find it. I remember, I'd love to find this episode And you're like, Oh, I love that idea, and you took it so far that every cabinet in the kitchen was wide open and everything was everywhere. You're just looking and we didn't even know what you were looking for.
It didn't matter, but that was your scene. I remember this, so I don't know what episode there said I gotta find it. It's just like, oh boy, last time I remember giving her an idea with an open end to it.
Props is freaking out what.
We're gonna say.
We're on the planes. Who lives close with plates?
Come over with your plates?
Yeah, but by the way, when you shine, because it's you lost in that I do.
It's fun, but but it is. That was a hard learning curve for me because of the time frame, and I was young and stubborn and couldn't hear when people were like, joy, we literally do not have time for this idea. It's super fun, but we don't have time. I couldn't hear it. I had a really hard time with that, And that's youth is wasted on the young. But you know, how do you you were older than us, you were you know more season How do you.
That you.
Was when ts were circular?
Oh my god?
I've been listening to sixties on six with my kids and they're like, this music's so old. I'm like, this is when dad was born. Six For a time.
You can also stay young though through keeping curious. I think that's I think that's the sicke of to stake. But to answer the question, because it is a good question. What I walk a set, I was going to finish, was I look for never shooting flat against walls. I always look for if I can shoot through a doorway into a room and then see a window or another doorway into something else, then I can get I get what I call like a really interesting layered dynamic for lighting.
So I don't shoot flat. I always go I never walk in a room and look at the wall. That's if you do that. I don't know why you even bother shooting on a set, just shoot on a wall. I like to find as many different layers so that I can have an actor coming foreground and background and
have them passed. But I love passing off. When you were talking about economy of shooting and how do you shoot so fast even in indie films, which I'm more doing involved now, it's, by the way, what a great English sentence, it's more doing involved.
Now I got y'all what you were saying, we followed you all the way down.
That some more involved in doing.
It.
It's the French that we the verbs. The idea is to is to sometimes I think pass off. Have an actor start the scene coming in and let's say they pass the sofa, somebody's sitting there, and as the dialogue hits, you want to be able to just rack to that person and then if the person can go behind them again, then I don't have to go into all these separate shots. It's kind of, you know, sleeker, more fun to have the audience because they'll go with you. Audiences will go take them on a trip.
Yeah, to feel like they're there in the room. Yeah, rather than they have to they get to just face to face to face to face to face to face.
I just would rather just find something creative, especially if the scene has any length to it. I mean a short little scene like that, Oh fine, put it on some sticks and get coverage and get out of there.
But like the airport scene, what you just did with what you did in this episode Julian and Brooke in the end, that airport, the long lens, the way they were crossing each other, the way he stood up and people were passing. Also, wonderful use of extras. The background actors, I feel like, are so often just placed to walk awkwardly, and I love that everybody was moving around and it felt so natural.
If I remember correctly, I remember we had to I remember that I was up against the little Remember who it was. There was somebody on the set that was saying, you know that the network prefers you know, you know, those kind of shots that are more framing in the face and focused around. But I said, well, look, you know, and I just had worked with my friend Nick on a movie where he I think it was My Sister's Keeper, and he used deacons on that. I think Roger Deakins
is the greatest DP alive right now. He even has a documentary out about him.
I just like that you did it in a crowd because it made it mortifying had you just been framed on Austin's face.
Blade Runner two thousand, nineteen seventeen, Empire of Lights Cecario, The Assassination Barton Fak No Country for Old Men.
Thanks.
He's brilliant, so he.
Uses long lenses in interiors in a way where he puts the cameras four or not necessarily, he could take it outside of a window, but he'll put a two hundred zoom lens on a camera. And what happens is, if you're sharp in focused, everything around you looks almost like a twinkling world, like a beautiful little thing. And I didn't quite go to that for I might have used one hundred zoom or something like that.
But you did that on the River Court.
Yeah, yeah, I did on the River Court too. As much as I could, I tried to use long lenses. And then really what it is is it brings the actor and focus, but it gives almost a sort of like a surreal world around them, which is more glittery with the light clicking off of the of the river and things like that. It's just pretty, you know.
I want to know, Paul, With a series that you're on, right, it's one thing when you go in and you are a guest director that's just cruising into somebody else's universe and you don't really have context for where the characters have been for the last few years. But with a show that you're on and you know these characters really well, and you know what Brook's been through and what Lucas has been through and all of that. I can never direct because I have opinions like I don't like Julian.
I think Julian's the worst boy ever. I think ultimatums are horrendous. Not into it, Yeah, I was not a sidebar.
Was not into this like random, Hey, I'm leaving in like twenty four hours, kid, I could get on a plane.
N Yeah, bye of narcissism.
My life is so important, that is invaluable misogyny.
Sure, how do you keep your opinion out of it? Because I'm thinking, like, if I had to, you made Julian look so lovely in this airport scene that you guys are talking about, and all I could think is like, I fuck him up. I'd make him look real dumb in this airport scene because how dare he put all this pressure on this poor girl?
Yeah?
But instead it was so romantic. Instead, you made it. You made it through sad. I couldn't keep my opinion out of it.
You remember broadcast news? Oh yes, the greatest movies ever made?
Am I rightly?
Hunter?
Holly Hunter's scene with William Hurt at the airport where he gets the tickets and he says, come with me, come with me, come with me, and she's like, okay, I'll be there. Then she finds out he cheated. He lied, not a sexual he cheated because he falsified a news report which showed he had no integrity and she couldn't go through with it. So at the airport in her like pajamas with no luggage, he goes, yeah, no, I'm not going. You know, you have fun, and he's like,
you can't. You can't just forgive me for that one thing. She goes no, because it's like basically saying no because that's who you are, and I can't be with who you are.
You can't see it.
It's such a kind of in my mind where I was shooting that, I was thinking of like the broadcast news moment, like you know what I mean, like I love my life so much and you go have yours or whatever it is.
So you were worried about Julian and how unbelievable the situation was that he was giving her this crazy ultimatum and she's running around like I've known for a.
While, but I didn't feel that was my my It wasn't that would be on on my lane because I'm not going to be able to change the writers. Yeah, ideas, and I have to service the you guys. And if let's just say, I, if Sophia would have come or whatever,
I would have immediately said, I love your thoughts. Can we bring the writers in because I can't overrule a story that's been in the works for weeks and they've passed through the network, through the producers, through the show runner, through everybody else, and then me to go, yeah, I'm not cool with that. I would have gone, I'll tell you what, if you have an oppisode, I will support you. Let's go together, Let's go talk and say, hey, you
know what, this is, how she should take this. And if she'd have said, let's do a take where I just go, you know, basically, you know, I would have gone down to do that take. I'll shoot it. I'll shoot whatever the actors want to shoot. We'll also get our job done too.
At the same time, sure, did they offer you any explanation as to why Julian had to go back the guy with very few strings attached?
Yeah? The steaks were so imaginary.
Yeah, I couldn't understand what the urgency was.
And it felt like it was somebody I don't know. I mean, you know, these there's some genius in our show and moments, there's some pure genius. And then with everything in life, there's some things that don't make as much sense. We spoke about one earlier in this episode of this podcast. But again, I think you kind of have to. If you have moral objections, you got to speak them up. If you have story objections, I think those conversations have to happen long before you get to the set.
Yeah, when we didn't get to do read throughs because it was so bang bang bang bang bangs. Yeah, did the.
First two seasons, didn't we the first season?
The first season? What we would do?
Did we feel? It was a first episode episode, but it wasn't.
A regular occurrence twenty two episodes? How are you going to find time? We could barely get everybody in the same room to shoot on some days, and we had.
Some seasons where we were twenty six episodes or something.
Oh my god, we did.
Yeah. Well, so for you know, for these storylines and servicing these storylines. We've been in this boat for six years. At this point, Brooke is finally like maybe going to tell someone she loves him. He has said goodbye to her thirty seven times, like they have said goodbye so many times, and are.
Like, it's so good at playing, like the of of how her emotions can kind of just suck you in and make care for her. I think she was exceptional in this scene.
I really she made me buy it.
Every time I thought she was going to say it, She's finally going to say it, She's finally going to say it, and then she just it hurts so bad to see it well up in her throat and her just shove it back down, like never mind, I'll keep it to myself.
Did they bring him back? They brought hit that character back, Juliane.
Right, because yeah, he's been a couple of times.
Are going to draw him the one time? Then the Hammerhead Sharks off the coast of East Carolina.
They ended up getting married, Paul, Yes, that was it.
That's her her end game.
But what's this?
These are the things that confused me so much about our show that we shot twenty two episodes. They had
a board a mile long in that writer's room. How could they not map out a realistic timeline for stakes for these two characters so that you actually felt like you were invested in not He's here for four weeks and then all of a sudden, Brook's heart is breaking in half because a guy she's known a month gives her three plane tickets and says, you and your new adopted kids should come live with me in La And she's not, like, that's super sweet, thank you, but maybe
we can talk on the phone a little bit more before I move my whole life out, Like, why did they not take the time we had twenty two episodes?
Okay, I'm done, no, no, but remember this is Hollywood is a business, and that contracts with actors. They don't know if they're going to pick them up till they see how the audiential reaction. They don't know, okay, fair, They don't know what's going on until they go, oh, look at the feedback we're getting for this storyline. We should do both this. There's a lot involved at the point.
With the movie that Julian is doing being shitcanned, Like the movie's done? What's he rushing back to? He's out of a job.
Dad doesn't even like working with him, right, yustic job too?
Oh that's right. That's right. Everybody's lost their job and he's like, well, really got to uproot you and your little kid here.
Wouldn't it be great if we were privileged to the conversations that the never rush we were having with our writing team, so that we could understand how they got to certain conclusions. We weren't involved in those, and we have no idea, but it'd be yeah.
And also there's always that factor of was it just such a different time fifteen twenty years ago that the default was the woman would follow the man? Has it been that long that it was just the assumption at that point, because now we're all like, she probably makes more money than he does. What the yeah? You know, like, what are we doing here?
I think they could have done something like I've got an offer. I'm going to go shoot a movie in Morocco and they're paying us so much money, and I want to bring you and give Sam an experience of being overseas. You can design overseas, like raise the stakes to something that's not just I got to go back to la and try and get another job.
Just for everybody, we want to hear the conversations that we've never had the thought.
That I had in my whole head was like, no fucking wonder. I was still thinking about Lucas the whole time she was datingly, Like no wonder. Peyton was like, Okay, we're good, go to Sundance by We're done.
So end up if you could right now.
I got married, I know, But now where are they?
What is Peyton and what is Lucas doing right now? Ten years after those times?
You and every fan they always ask us this question at conventions and stuff. Paul, Yes, so good.
Peyton's doing that thing where she's in like deep therapy at this point because when you're little, you don't know how screwed up you are until you have kids and you're like, wait a second, I don't want to hit this kid. I don't want to scream at this kid. What to me? Yeah, it's just like deep.
And is Lucas like Stephen kitting now or what's going on?
Like I don't know. I bet he's still strong, like I love how like strong Chad is right now? And all the thirst trap pictures he posts on Instagram, I'm like, where was this? What the hell?
Have you seen his new show?
I haven't watched it yet. Now, what's his show Sullivans Y Suivan's Crossing. It isn't with the dude from Gilmore Girls.
That's great, Yeah, yeah good.
He's strong as hell. I was texting with him the other day and he was just like, I'm either working or lifting weights or playing with my kids, and that's my trifecta. He's just doing.
The producer of that series is an old friend of mine who I did a movie with I think with Gosh. We shot it up in Canada and Sudbury, Ontario.
Unbelieva Sudbury. I shot in Sudbury, ended up the town that blew up, like there's minds there and it blew up.
Yeah that's right now, Oh the mind have you been down on the mines?
Go in the mines. I was making a Christmas movie, Paul, that's so cool. I was playing with reindeer. Hilarious. Okay, So the Julian and the brook of it all, we like them. Personally, I don't like this coupling. I don't like all the pressure. It's really stressing me out.
But I did love Sophia's black flip hairdoo and her black motorcycle jacket because I haven't This is like the Carol Cutshall episode.
You were in a leather jacket. I noticed that too.
Yeah, I was into your rebellious red hair. This was like the first time I really showed up. That was fun.
Sick of the blandche You were rebelling two thousand and nine, right, it was two thousand nine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, two thousand and nine.
Okay, okay, wow.
Yeah, okay, So there's that. Let's talk about college party.
This random college party in the middle of a day.
Have any actually been to real college parties? Is my question? Because I'm gonna drop out, I would do a few. Did you have a Greek life?
All this?
Like, you know, it's not as I mean, that's a really American phenomenon. Greek life. You know, Canada is more clubs rather than you know, fraternity. We have them, but it's not a it's not the thing it is in America, where it's you know, I just don't it's not profound, it's it's you know, it's very different. But I would say, well, Canadians are wonderful, unique people, so it's just different.
I guess We're not tacky, is what he was trying to say. We're not doing your techy clubs.
I did John sears On on Beverly Hills nine O, two and O, and all of my scenes were that life, and they're kind of made up like that, a little bit to be, you know, a little more risque, a little bit more evil, a little more stuff. But I guess there's all bad stuff and good stuff. But I mean I think there's I don't know, you remember about last Night? That whole movie was about that life, wasn't it. Remember you didn't see about Last Night the original movie?
To me?
More and and no.
Okay, no, but but I think Gigi represented a fantasy on our show of like a hot chicks throwing themselves at you, And so it makes sense that she exists within this fantasy of like, mmm, now there's a whole pack of chicks at our disposal?
Would have been differently if it was if there was a predominantly female writing staff, How had that been represented differently?
The college party you mean.
Yeah, the college parties, Yeah, because the perspective is completely is everything, isn't it?
It is? But I didn't go to any college parties.
So I've never been to a friend, no party. I've never That's why I asked I was like, who of us has actually been in that situation? Because I went to school in New York City, Like, there were no frats or sororities in my college. We just went to the Blarney Stone.
Academic at the University of British Columbia. I didn't, I mean to some parties, but it was never like that. Like I said, it was these are you know, brain cerebral kids really kind of studio.
What we're saying is someone should invite us to a party just.
For like it's just for college research.
We're going to get an email and then that, you know, it's it's crazy that we were so close to you and c W and no one invited us to a party. We were so close to Were we that lame that no one wanted to party?
I think James went to those parties because he.
Was a young one.
I forget that we were into college town too.
Yeah, the college kids didn't want to hang out with them.
They were like no hard pass. I did love this storyline though. I really liked First of all, I love a friend who shows up at your house when you're not feeling well and is like getting the car we're taking a road drift ride or just shows up and takes you, makes you take a walk or go for
coffee or something. I just love that. And as much as I disliked the college party environment for multiple reasons, mostly just because I've felt really bad for Kelsey, it just felt it felt like such a weird situation for her to constantly be put in. I liked this version of Skills trying to work out his own relationship issues like trying to have mouth do it Skills his way, and then realizing this is not who you are.
Man.
I'm gonna let me actually take you, let me give you an opportunity to see what you think you're missing, and then I'm going to take you to see who you really need. You're such a good friend. I just I just liked it.
I don't even think Skills was creazy. I didn't mind the party. I thought it was like fun. It reminded me of the parties that we had when we were in high school. The only thing that's creepy is like the dudes that are clearly out of school going back Flora like that's the But then I thought back to my own college days and I was dating like a twenty five year old who would come into the dorm and looking back, it's so gross. It's like embarrassing almost,
that's what it is. It's embarrassing. The mouth and skills are standing there. You had them dressed very differently from everybody else, so they stick out like sore thumbs, and that that visibility was important to the storytelling. It was like, oh, actually, this isn't a world that we've fit in. We're the old guys. We should go.
Do you remember how they held mouth upside down for the keg drink thing?
Oh?
Yeah, and then Jamie with the car too.
That was great.
I thought I was so clever by putting Jamie upside down in there, which I had to match them.
It was clever, it was cute. Those kinds of things make the show. It makes it interesting to watch in random moments Easter eggs of Hey, guys, we're here doing fun stuff for you.
I like it.
Well, let's get into the garage though, because because all these.
Two together, right, wasn't it great to see the brothers kind of yeah, Cam.
In Keith's garage.
There's a real beauty to Chad and James together because they come to the same emotion from two really different places, and James has that very old Hollywood kind of huh. There's like, it's almost like a very slow Carrie Grant Jemmy Stewart kind of reaction. There's a just a classic nature to the way he reacts to news about Dan, to laying eyes on the garage after all this time, to giving advice to Lucas.
Yeah, it's deeply internal.
It's really slow and it's fun to watch it on Furral. And then Chad has a very modern approach to things and he's very his emotion is very visible right away, and it's you know, stereotypically it would be described as like feminine really because women are stereotypically the ones that are vocal about their emotions. But Lucas have been raised by a mother, is someone who is quick to acknowledge
his emotions. And so it's cool to see these guys in this space that's so meaningful, and for you to be the bad guy directing them through this scene, it's hard to it's hard to imagine them hitting their mark and then hearing Dan scott yell action.
I think they divorce themselves from that one I'm directing. I don't know what they assume, but I will say, what do you hit? There was various student you found something really beautiful? What I call those little hidden gems is Chad seemed to me, always seems to me when he's working with James as curious about finding things out. And James, although has the wall and it's kind of reluctant to share his emotions so easily. He wants someone
to work to get them out of him. And so when Chad gives him that gift, James gets to be more than what we often get because he wants people to like, please ask me, please ask me, but I don't really want to tell you because you know. And then when he does, you go, oh, oh, it's really beautiful to watch.
That's such a good way to describe it. He wants someone to ask, and Chad is ready to ask.
Yes, yes, Yeah.
I loved that, And I like the introduction of Jamie into that scenario too, that he was watching a little kid try and figure out how the world works. When he asked, is it okay for me to still miss Grandpa Dan?
Like?
How do you? Is it okay for me to be angry and also miss someone? Is it okay for me to like acknowledge something that's bad but also still have love. Like, those are really big concepts and to watch a little kid struggle through them. I like being reminded of the things that we think about as a child, and we still carry those thoughts with us as we grow and grow and grow, and don't even necessarily have the answers to them. We just keep revisiting it over and over and over again.
Yeah, he did a great job. And seeing him in the Keith costume with the boots and the pants tucked in, you know, that legacy of what does it mean to be a Scott the father to son, uncle to nephew relationship. I like that our show perpetuated that and just like
kept it going. And yeah, this idea that Dan's gonna die, Paul, I would love your take on things, because this was the episode for me as we were reaching the end of our contracts where it really solidified that they were toying with the idea of killing me, and they'd already killed Keith, and they'd put Moira on a shelf and all the actors who were being paid well from the beginning were cut off, and it occurred to me as you know, Peyton's preparing for her own death, that oh,
I should do this emotional labor right now. I should prepare myself because I don't know what's going to happen, the same way Peyton doesn't know. But for you, you're also in this limbo where it's like, are they really going to kill me? And you've been living there much longer than me.
I struggle sometimes because I know that all this goes public.
Sure, I mean there might be a headline.
Well no, no, I mean I want people to know things. But I'm also careful because, as I said, you know, I'm I get hurt easily, and so I got to be careful that I don't care. I was told at the end of that season that we're cutting your salary. It's take it or leave it. So I knew that there was some in the writing signs that if I didn't take a reduced salary that I was gone, And so I decided that I was probably going to be on because I was like feeling I'm worth whatever I'm
being paid. You know, I've established myself and I think I have value to the show, and I hopefully filled the audience feels that way. But that didn't matter at that point. At the end of the day, we agreed on me only doing ten episodes the following season, I think, and I would still be directing because they didn't want
to fire me as director. They just want to get rid of me as an actor because they thought they were paying me too much, or they had or they were cutting into whatever they were doing, whatever it was, and they're bringing in new cast, all kinds of stuff, and so I took over.
The cast that they would pay nothing all over again.
And I took a reduced salary for the last a couple of seasons and then kind of got a little bump again near the end. But it was it was hurt.
Because sorry, Paul, value it's but it is. It's hurtful, Yeah, to build something and be told you're not valuable enough to maintain your salary.
Especially when you know how much money they were making on the production and that the producers and the studio like, there's just it's unreasonable.
It's me.
It could be considered that. And what I try to do is say to myself, well, first off, the audience needs a proper sending off of this character. They deserve a storyline that means something, so let me do the
ten episodes and give them that. But then Dan kind of caught fire again and they couldn't get rid of me, really, and so they kind of were like, well, but you come back, and I'm like, now, I was like, you wanted the ten episodes, I'm so happy to give it to you, and you know, but they didn't finish the storyline. Then they said, well, I have a great idea, and then they pitched me this other idea where we all know where it went, and I said, that sounds super fun.
I'd love to do it. You know, I just can't do it, you know, at that price, and because I feel like, you know, it's wrong for me to take lesson what I feel i'm worth, even though I think it's a great story and I'm really happy about it. And so we worked out something else, which wasn't what it should have been. But it's like, again, nobody is a right to in our industry to say, like, you know, I deserve a certain amount of money. You deserve what you can negotiate, because that's business.
Yeah, well yeah, it's in every business.
Yeah, but it's really rare in other industries. If you worked at the bank and they came to you and they said, hey, you've been here a decade. It's so cool. We're going to pay you seventy percent of what we've been paying, you know, like any other industry, that's such a weird shoots and ladders thing to do to a person. And living in that limbo. You know, we're in six nineteen here, and there's five more episodes left in this season, and so you're working for five more episodes having to
wonder am I behaving well enough? Am I making people happy? What did I do wrong? Is anyone going to give me a straight answer? Or am I getting the run around? Like the manipulation was really well?
You guys felt it too. I mean, yeah, no different ways. Let me just say this on a pousitive note, I didn't. Once you make the decision, what your decision is, I do let it go and I focus on.
The work because you have to argue.
You know, I completely let it go. And I never have been brought it up to the producers. I never brought it up to the cast, never brought to anybody because I'm a pro and as are you guys. And once I make the decision, it's my decision and I'm going to live with it. So I didn't want it. And that's why I never speak about it.
Really.
I brought it up because you've brought up a point about, hey, there's a foreshadowing here. Sure was that, and well that was a negotiating thing and it was put on my plate. It was meant to scare me or whatever. And so I brought it up because it's it was a storyline that they used in a way to haggle with an actor about money.
Well, it's how they haggled with Craig about his facial hair and his bandana and like the stuff he wanted. They said, either change these things or we will get rid of you. And he was like, not going to change these things, and they got rid of him. They so we are already had it.
There's so many egos and power plays that go on behind the scenes that affect the work.
That's he was missed.
Joy, Craig was missed when he was gone. He was a whole Yeah, in me and I think in you guys too. He was such a calming and you know, a veteran, you know, lovely human being who really cared for us. All it was. It was. I know that what they had to do there to do, but I deeply missed his presence.
Yeah, you know, he was one of the biggest hearts of the show, everybody, you know, representing a part of the body as a whole what this show was.
It's so funny. I had like goosebumps in these conversations. Don't you guys get that way when you talk.
About well because of the line between fact and fiction, because we were a unit off camera and obviously a unit on camera because that's the story that we're telling. But what happens on camera affects what happens off care
and vice a person. So yeah, living with that loss and knowing how quickly and you know, severely it can happen, We're all prepped and ready for it to happen, you know, for our heads to roll at any point, And so I felt I felt taken care of in this moment where it dawned on me that Peyton might die because my contract was up, because you were the person who was at the helm of how I was portraying it,
and every other director always wanted me to cry. I mean, every visiting director was like, can we get a tear? Can we get a sniffle? And I just love the scene. I have such tactile sense memory of that hat box at the end of the episode that Peyton's putting the sketches in. I wanted to keep that more than any other prop I'd ever had on the show. I wanted it so bad. And I have such memories of you being like, don't cry when you put that picture in here, Like you don't let them see you cry. You are
in full control of what's going on. And that sense of like bittersweet empowerment I hold very dear because things do end, people do die, stuff falls apart, and you can keep your chin up.
You know, I could get a compliment from anybody in the world, it would be just like that. That makes me feel.
Well, it's a compliment to you, Paul.
Well, no, it's a beautiful That's what I'm saying is I'm grateful for the recognition of how much I care about you guys. You know, I mean that means the whole ten years of my life in North Carolina. If it was just one compliment like that, it'd be worth it all. You know.
I love that well, we all had those moments with you I'm glad I didn't cry. Those mother filled me. Then I don't cross some pictures. I'll leave them behind. I don't care.
I never cried in public either.
Our dignity you.
Were always you were like the walls, Paul. You were just there kind of watching, listening, and you just you had you had just the right door window for us at the exact right moment to open up and share something or remind us of where we were and what we needed, what was important. But you were so good at that, just sort of being their hands off and showing up exactly when it was needed, like in that moment with Well.
That means everything. I also remember that, you know, all you guys had come with such wide eyes, such excitement. I remember everybody's face the first time I was introduced to each one of you, you know, even even Sophie. I remember the very first time she came on the said, I remember you know everybody, and it was just kind of like, this is going to be something, going to be something, And I didn't know if it was like even the pile we show about, we know where it
picked up. I felt this is going to be something. Everybody brought such hope to their work, you know, you know, I wouldn't it be great if every experience was like that. I didn't. I hadn't felt that on every experience I was on, and in fact, I felt very much an outsider on many shows I've been a guest on, and films are different because those are sort of you know, location ships with people and then you're gone. But this
was never has there been anything like family? And because I was such an evil and maniacally bizarre character in many ways and unpredictable. And I love that I was the spice in the stew. I love that. But I was never unloved by people on the cast. I was loved, and that was what made it okay to go to those places in those scenes. I made it okay, you know.
And I know that even the tensions that I had with certain people you know, are long forgotten and long forgiven, and those there are moments of like humanity, not moments of evil. That makes the difference.
Well, so then how did you direct our new big bad this the Fall Fall? I hope that. I'm so glad she had you to hold her hand through this weirdness, because who are you talking about the principal ram Kiss who showed up in your living room? Joy, you had so much to do with this episode. Haley was in everybody's house or office. Haley graveled this episode. But then this woman had the audacity to walk her ass into your living room to my house. Children can forgive, but
a grown ass woman. That's a Dan Scott move to walk into somebody else's house.
It is talk about making the writing work, because that's just in the script. Like the kid says something and turns around and there she is in the living room, and you got to figure out how to make that believable.
Well, asked me about that on the set. You said, how come she just shows up? How can she just said?
You asked me like, yeah, I'm sure I did, And you're like, I don't know, Jo, It's in the script. If you had a question about it, you should have called the writer five days agout.
Yeah, I would have loved to have see her just like pop up in a window. What are you guys doing here? Yeah? It was, but it was a good It was like it was Hailey's dangerous mind moment. You know, she's got her leather jacket on. My god, teacher had.
On totally was dangerous minds light. Yeah, no, it was fun. I mean we had we had a good time. It was fun working with all those kids. And yeah, I mean you always made it so easy, Paul, and just everything that you were just saying is so true. You know it is. It's a family and that's what we created. And it was a safe space for us as a family to do so many things and experiment with so many things. And yeah, thank you for being so magical
and whimsical and curious. You've really kept your curiosity. It's wonderful.
And so I had that conversation with Quinn the other day. I was like, I said, the only thing I hope for you is to never lose your curiosity. I said, people who are curious are so interesting and so fun to be around. And that's what I said. Remember the conversation we had.
Yes, what does he think about? Has he ever watched one trio?
He's never watched it. But one time when he was feeling I think it was like nine or maybe ten years old, we were somewhere and somebody recognized me and Quinn said, do you want me to take the picture? Do you want me to take the picture? My dad was Dan Scott on one trial do you want me to.
Take the picture?
And I'm like, going, honey, it sounds like you're very proud of me, and he goes, He goes, well, I've never seen the show, dad, you know that.
I'm like, okay, that's very.
Quinn is the most interesting, bizarre, as Joy will.
Tell you, and the best. Well when when your dad is like an iconic bad guy. I feel like your son and my children probably have a lot in common. Before people feel in ownership over you, but also in antagonism when they see you in public. And so as a child, especially like my kid, your kid entering their
teenage years. For a teenage boy to have this like bad dad, it's kind of it's kind of great, like because they get to have some swagger walking into middle school and high school, like, you know, my dad will kick your ass right like you know that I come from dangerous stock. There's a there's an allure to it. I hope he utilizes that.
Well, we'll see. He's a he's a he's a very unique person. You know, he has all kinds of superpowers because who he is. But he's also got some interesting challenges in his life, you know, so I find it to be I don't know what you guys think, but you know, raising a kid nowadays, I'm terrified that I'm
not up to how fast things are changing. And I'm trying, but I'm more terrified that I'm not up for it than they are, that I'm not able to learn and grow and evolve and understand what the challenges they're going to be facing. Is. So the One Tree Hill world that we grew up in, which was even a televised television version of a world, is almost like the nineteen twenties.
Oh my god, they're going through.
And my son said, Dad, do you know that we're close that the nineteen seventies was as close to the nineteen twenties as we are to two thousand, as in ninety seventy and twenty two four?
And I went, what the nineties are the best?
Rude the nineteen seventies or as close to the nineteen twenties as twenty twenty four as to the nineteen seventies. So think about that, you were born when the nineteen twenties people were like the Great Depression. Yeah too, and as you as your kids are to you know, nineteen seventies to twenty twenties.
It's like, Wow, it's shocking. Yeah, no, it hurts. And I remedy that by only letting my child have a flip phone, Paul, and it alleviates so much bullshit. I'm like, you're allowed to have nineties technology.
Friend, Here you go the way to do it.
Okay, we have a fan question. Here we go. If you had only one hour to spend in tree Hill and you have two options here, would you rather hit the night out on the town with Deb or have an insightful conversation with Karen in her cafe?
Unfair the guests, and I love them. I think my favorite time is with Deb were when we were worrying each other, like the War of the Roses.
Yes, yeah, so, and and I do.
Love I do think there was chemistry with both characters. I do love the intimacy, and I mean, honestly, the weird part about working with Moira was that her her her emotions were so palpable, and then I felt hatred towards me. I tried to be smug and I tried to be like, well, she's just doing this because she really loves me. Because I have to justify these behaviors. Right, So as a character, I'm going, well, this is the only reason she's doing this because she still cares about me.
That's she'd be talking to me like.
This if she didn't get me, right, if she Yeah, it.
Works better for the character. If she didn't care about me, she wouldn't care. She cares so much she's showing me her hatred, which means she's actually still in love with me. And that's how I would.
Play it, which is.
Right. That's got to make her din't matter, which is good for the character. For the show. With deb I didn't have to go there because it was more like, I don't want to say this in a bad way, but sort of like foreplay.
Yeah, that's it. I never got the sense of the dev hated Dan. I always thought it was a version of like crazy.
So there, the energies are very very interesting, but so different.
You know.
Yeah, I don't like feelings, so I'm probably gonna go with the going out option, like I want to be I want to be out. And we've seen how tree Hill can party. We've done bachelorette parties and limos and and what else have we done in tree Hill? Riverboats? Yeah, it's a party towntown.
It is apparently there's crazy college parties. I'd go out with Deb too, I'd go I mean, Deb, is are you kidding me? Deb's got people in catsuits climbing on billboards. I'm going with Deb.
She did.
Karen though I directed that episode, I know, but.
She had convinced Karen ticket you know what I mean. Karen's great. I mean, I love it. I love a good conversation, but I have a lot of those in my life. I need. I need more like nights out, people dragging me out, doing fun stuff.
Less feelings, more fun. Now you're coming to the dark side.
I like it.
So listen, what's our honorable mention for this episode? What was something that really stood out to you and felt meaningful? Were nice?
Well?
What about you? What about your the in the in the coda, that incredible moment you have there. I thought that was kind of beautiful, you know, with your artwork and your you know again moment right that. I thought that was even very well and poignant.
Yeah, I thank you. I I loved, loved, loved, loved, loved, loved, love loved Sam and Jack and their little first kiss and the build up to it the awkwardness of it. I wish when we had been playing teenagers we had had more awkward kisses because we were expected to be very like practiced and sexy and experienced, and these kids actually resemble teenagers, and there just their weirdness and what
they say to each other. And then when she doesn't leave for l a and she comes back and sees her with the diner and says so about that kiss, and he goes, yeah, this is awkward, Like they just absolutely don't know the right thing to say.
And you building the tower of creamers. That had to be your idea.
Paul greg was also in a Kelsey's mom was on this set, which is nice.
That was Ashley's mom.
Sorry, yeah, she was on the set, And I think that really made it nice because you have, you know, the support and you know the you know, having her sit right next to me in the whole thing and having that guidance from you know, the mother and all that's nice. I don't know, just get made it though. That was so cute. He's a good actress.
Yeah, he's done okay for himself and having Peters is fine. He's doing right.
My honorable mention goes to your your long lenses is man. They it sucked me into the storyline. It really did. Like I always feel like there's something it's more intimate when you are when I'm watching something on a long lens. And the fact that you used it to actually make some of the storylines that didn't make sense to make them work better really impressive super long lens.
Don't forget Orn's song was fantastic in the episode.
That's okay.
I love that song. I think it was a great, great piece of music they chose for it.
Yeah, yeah, well should we spin a wheel. Let's spin the wheel, all right, Paul? We do our most likely too. You're familiar, are you our most frequent guest?
You know?
Oh? Hey, now who is most likely to date someone fifteen years younger than them? Paul Johnson?
I love this is what the Google random thing pulled up the day you're on our show.
Yeah. Why would the wheel ask that today?
Yeah? I mean I think I would say who's the most random? Who's the most likely to do that?
You have to pick a real life one, and then a character, and.
Then a character.
Well, Whitey doesn't have much of a choice.
That's what I was gonna say. I was like, why's like flaing? Like what teacher at Tree Hill High after Camilla died? Did he have a non committed romp with in a lot?
Yeah?
I would have loved it. I would have loved it.
No one could know about this.
Uh and what about h Lewis in real life?
Oh?
How much older than us are you? You played like our dads. But because my parents really thought I was gonna date you during the pilot, they were just like, Hillary, don't do it. Don't like, what are you talking about. They're like, we see the way you two laugh.
We see like.
Saw you on your MTV show and you just charmed everybody you or everybody loves you. It could be even the camera guys loved you. They would It's like you were so you were a magnet in.
A different world. Did we date in a different world?
Because I want to be friends with Jeffrey, I want to know that's it?
Well, I mean he he says he wouldn't have dated me if he had been on the show.
He never calls me. I want to work with him. I want to hire your husband for everything.
Well, come to Boston. He's filming with zombies right now and the other night he had people leaning out of the window telling him not to do any of the drugs and whatever town they're shooting it because there's Fennel in it. And I'm like, Jeffrey, where are you right now? Go on now, listen. I like an age gap. I can endorse an age gap. And I know a lot of people look down their nose at it, but I like an age gap, and I'm going to stand by that decision. Mine's seventeen to it.
Everybody's consenting, and everybody's legal what it is. But love is a very peculiar thing because in my life I've been lonely and I've been with people who were you know, you know, I don't know that. I thought we're filling holes in my life. And then I've been with people that that never could fill a hole in my life.
And then it's kind of like, I don't know. When you find your person and they're you know, have their own lives and themselves and are doing things and they bring joy to you and you're healthy for each other, you find a way. Because love is freaking hard. Age gap or no age, love is hard, man.
Yeah, do you think?
Yeah?
It is.
It's it's work.
I like a settled person that's like, this is what I am. Yeah, let me get it. You know that was a feeling because our lives are so frantic all the time.
Yeah, at some point, the age, the number of the age just doesn't become a factor if the person is the right if it's the right match, if your baggage match matches.
Yeah.
Well, there's a lot of a lot of strong opinions out there, and you know, we can't you can't control you know, how people feel about things. You can just live a good life and hopefully they'll see your good is it?
Anytime? There are those like BuzzFeed articles where they're like age gaps ooh yuck. I'm like, oh no, are they gonna put us in it?
Yeah?
And sometimes they do and it's okay because you know, you know, everything's cool. I like Whitey having a having a dalliance. You know.
Yeah, we missed that storyline.
You remember, Ashley's mom on the show was played by Sean Young.
Yeah, that's right. Later she came back.
Was that Ashley. No, that wasn't Ashley's mom, that was Abby's mom. The character Abby was played Bob.
That's right. In school that was yes, earlier on you know what I'm talking about?
Yeah, what was Abby? The Alison scambody Skaggliotti Skaggliotti. Yeah, Alison Scagliotti's mom was Sean Young.
That's right.
Yeah. Did you kiss her? Why do he could have kissed her?
Oh?
Yeah? She was crazy?
Though, You're right, she was crazy?
Was it our character crazy?
Was she not?
I missed it? I forgot guys. If it's not, if I haven't seen it, read it, heard it within the last like two months, it's I can't remember.
It's apple sauce.
Okay, Friends, next episode, Season six, episode twenty. I would for you. I would thanks for coming, Paul, thanks for coming on the show and talking with us. Always a pleasure.
You're the best, Honey, You're the best.
Guys.
I miss you too. Give love to that boy.
Oh yeah yeah, us to New York.
Join us.
Happy birthday, quin the y We we used the I from the birth wim Happy b Day and threw the rest of it out day and he goes down, you missed still birthday and you can catch it and he goes.
I guess.
I did it?
Incredible, all right, buddy. We love you so much. Thank you have you.
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