Sunset, Before Sunrise • EP322

the stress. Terrible idea. This is gonna be a long day. Girls. It was very emotional. Guys were on season three episode twenty two, The show Must Go on our season three finale, which originally aired on Me third, two thousand six. I mean joy. This episode was massive. Yeah, it was huge. This was the one that I the story when I um I had to drive from Atlanta and I hired

somebody to drive me from Atlanta. This was it was the limousine day, the limousine going off the edge of the Yeah, they had a helicopter, they had um all the stunts, you know, it was all the underwater scuba guys. That Tim McKinney, who we were talking about on our live tour earlier this week, who was one of our crew guys, was out there. Uh. I just remember him sitting out on that river like all day long, just

on a plank. The camera was on. I feel like they had the camera on like a it kind of looked like a little dock, like a mini dock, but it was floating in the middle of the ocean or the ocean the river, floating in the middle of the river. It was like a barge. Yeah, it was at barge.

Thank you barge and Matt doll and yeah, the guys are out there, and um, there was just there's so much that goes into something like that with the electricity underwater, and you've got actors who are in a car underwater and they can't just get out easily, so they had to have oxygen tanks. And I mean it was it was a huge, huge episode. Well didn't they shoot all of the inside car stuff on the tank on stage, Like, surely they didn't shoot that in the river today because

that's discussed the car stuff. When we see Rachel and Cooper and James underwater in Wilmington's they were trying to build film and they had just built this massive tank on one of the stages. It had been done by then. I mean we were there all day. As far as

I remember, they shot everything in that river underwater. That's bananas. Well, just for you, how much heads up did you have, like that this wedding was going to go off the rails and be like there are thirty seven cliffhangers at the end of this thing, in hopes that we didn't be canceled. It was pregnant, Haley Brook, Rachel, we know Karen Is. We know Karen Is. We're Haley and Karen pregnant at the same time. I guess I forgot that

if that that was the case, I guess we were. Um. Yeah, no, I I got the script the same time as everybody else did. I didn't, That's all. I just found out when the script came like a week before we shot it or whatever. Um, it was a big deal. It was a really really big episode. But it was huge for you guys too. I mean, this is a major turning point for Brook and Peyton, really big for everyone. You did such a good job. You were so sad

this whole episode. I feel terrible. Yeah, poor brook Um stuff. Yeah, I'm also going to defend Peyton because what keeps saying, I have so much going on and I'm like him dead mom Like also same lots going on. Same And Sophia we laughed during this because it's like, really, we're gonna go this hard over a high school boy. High school boy? Yeah, I think you know, I remember because that was our complaint then too. Yeah, we were just like all the way really, but you know, you have

to you have to lean into the drama. You have to lean into the conflict so that there can eventually be resolution and people can grow. It's like you have

to figure out a way to make it true. And so the thing that I remember having to really leaning on was the betrayal of it, because to me, betrayal is, like I think everyone has, I call it a nuclear emotion, the thing that just makes you scorched earth, and and betrayal is a scorched earth thing for me, And so I was like, Okay, I guess that's what I have to really try to draw on and and think about and have it be about the fact that my person, my my best friend, continues behind my back to have

these experiences with the man that I'm in a relationship with, Like, what does that do? How does that destabilize a person and make them feel like they can't trust anyone around them? And I do feel like for as silly as it was that Brooke and Peyton we're fighting over a high school boy, I feel like that that sense of being rudderless worked. Yeah. I mean, I think there are breakups in female friendships that feel worse than divorce. You know,

I've had them in my own personal life. I had him as a teenager, I've had him as an adult, and it's just like you mourn them and then sometimes you come back together and it's magic. But those blowouts are unlike any kind of fight with the dude. Like with the dude, you're fighting with two different sets of tools. Yeah, but when you're with a woman, it's like we're both expert fencers. Try to stab each other right now and

let's see who bleeds. And Yeah, for me, growing up, my girlfriends and I would kiss the same dude and think it was awesome. We'd be like, man, like he was at my house on Saturday, in your house on Sunday. It isn't that hilarious? Oh yeah, we thought we were so funny that really there never Oh yeah, we were just like he thinks that we like him. That was amazing that wherewithal to just be like whatever is so silly,

by the way, that's how it should be. Yeah, you got just all kissed the same person, and then you can compare notes like who was because it's not gonna matter. You're fifteen, like nothing matters. But oh yeah, I remember I had a I had like a best friend engine your high in high school, and then she liked a boy in high school who said he liked me. Nothing happened with anybody, by the way, they'd never been on

a date. We've never been on a date. He just was like, yeah, that girl that goes to camp is more my type. And she literally like basically told me I was the worst person on the planet. And I was like, I don't think I even have a dog in this fight, Like I didn't sign up for this.

So it's weird thinking about all of it. It's interesting that you guys were so I don't know, chill progressive, I don't know what the word is, and that so many people aren't and I'm having this really met a moment where I'm like, our girls not chill about dumb boys because TV teaches us not to be Like, where did we learn? When did we do this? She says? She says, a kiss never means nothing, kiss always joy bullshit. I was looking for somebody to kiss last night. I

didn't need to make anything. Is that what you were doing out on the phone outside our restaurant? I can't imagine. I'm just like scrolling. There's a lot of handsome men in DUC. They're successful, you know, smart, Polish, political, But it doesn't mean to something. It's just, you know, sometimes a kiss it's just a kiss. I mean, if you're in a relationship, that's a problem. You can gotta you gotta not do that when you're in a relationship because

other people. But I mean, yes, yes, correct, no, those are the rules. But look, we've said it before, we'll say it a million times. When you're you should kiss whoever you want. You should absolutely kiss whoever you want. You should have fun with your girlfriend's tag teaming. I mean, honestly, I feel for Peyton because when I was in school, I had a super super beautiful best friend and everyone wanted to date her, and the only time they would want to date me is like as a consolation prize.

And so I can see Peyton taking the scraps, you know where it's like, yeah, just whenever's left over from everybody else's stuff, like all that'll work, you know. And as much as Brooke has attachment problems, Peyton also has attachment problems. And anybody that Peyton has had a relationship with is finding all this happiness with her friend, Like she dated Nathan and that was really toxic, and now wow,

what a great guy he is with Haley. You know, Lucas was like really shifty and also kind of manipulative with like Peyton being at her absolute lowest and now he's showing up and writing all these letters for a Brook. And so there is a thing about taking the scraps when you're a teenager because you can't think bigger, and that that may have been what Jake was tapping into with why he sort of sent Peyton away. He deserves more than the consolation prize. That's what I think. You

weren't the consolation prize. O page felt like the consolation prize. Yeah, I think he was worried that he might be, that he wasn't sure if he was really the one he wanted you to be. He wanted you to know that neither of you are the consolation prize and that it's not like, oh, Jake's default because I can't have Lucas.

And what I find so interesting about that is that this idea of feeling like a consolation as we're taking the scraps is something everyone goes through because somebody who there will always be someone who looks at each of us or each of you as like the number one ideal, and it always changes. It's like there are times when even in this show, when Lucas is like it's Peyton, and then he's like it's Brooke, and then he's like it's Peyton and everyone confused. He's confusing, but like it's

it's just wild. Like even hearing you say, oh, I had this pretty friend in high school and like this guy like whatever, it's crazy to me because I'm like, oh my god, when I remember even at this wedding, like us being in the same dress as and just feeling so insecure looking at you and being like she is so pretty. I don't want to stand next to her. In this dress. What are you talking about this whole episode? So we're just remember watching you in that red dress too.

I was like, yeah, and like I had this terrible like half to the side mushroom haircut in my bangs were growing out, and I just I had never felt less pretty. I had never felt less pretty. Yeah, But it's but it's just interesting like that we can all be made to feel like we're the less than person by somebody whose opinions might change month to month anyway, Like it's a perfectly making ourselves feel that way without

anyone else's inpot By the way, we don't help. But it's like it's just so wild that everybody can be in their own little bubble being like, oh no, I'm the weird one. Oh no, And I don't even know where I'm going with it. I just it's wild. It's wild to hear you say it, knowing how I've felt it and knowing that it is a thing that we universally experience, And I'm like, man, when are we going

to let that go? Well? No, you know what, I You know what was really fun is when we did our first photoshoot for Drama Queens, and we hadn't done a photo shoot together since we were little kids, and people used to make us feel like really competitive in those situations, and it was like jockeying for who was going to wear the best outfit, and like you know, who was going to get these shoes and whose leg you know, was going to be in position in the photo,

and there was so much jocking that when we did that shoot, and we didn't have any art directors, and we didn't have like stylus from the network at the studio, we didn't have any voices in our heads other than our own our owns. Yeah that's own, um. But we just all kind of looked at each other and we're like, okay, we're doing this different, right, And there was this mutual agreement that like, let's not do it like that, you know. And the the opening up of the suitcases, if you will,

is so helpful. It's so much easier now. I just bring undergarments and we just I can't bring on top clothes, but I will bring you to under garments anywhere. Yes, yes, give me all the shape shifting undergarments that her. I loved that because it's so much easier now as older women to be, just be supportive and and really like, now that we're settled into I love who I am,

where I am in life. I'm comfortable with myself. There's always going to be flaws that I see in the mirror, and I've grown accustomed to them and love them in my own way. And I'm sure you guys do too. So it's not there's not this sense of when you're so young, you're looking to the women around you, the girls around you, and I was anyway, I think it sounds like you guys were too, to just sort of, uh,

we're figuring out who we are. So it's like, well, if my nose looked more like that, then I could be more like that person. Or if I shoot, if I was just a little taller, or if I was skinnier, or if I was bigger or whatever, like if I only could do, if I only, if I only then I could be um. And it's it's weird. It's weird too, you know. I guess weird is the wrong word. It's nice. Actually, it's nice to be able to be settled and who we are so we can all come together and not

feel competitive. Yeah. Well, and I also think after a while you realize, Oh, everybody feels this. Everyone has their fill in the blank. What story have we been sold that's made us waste so much time worrying that we're not enough of this or too much of that. Like just the brain space in decades of like I can still get it. Yea. It's like this is like a physic Like this is like when we were talking about caveman instincts. This is caveman stuff. This is like the

basics of evolutionary science, where you know you thing. It's like, we want to be the most attractive so that we can be the most safe, because if you're the most safe, then you've got the protection of the clan or the biggest, the biggest of the cave man. Yeah, it's like it's some weird, deep, deep old tribal instinct. So I don't know that it will ever go away, but we certainly

have tools to take care of it. Did you guys ever read that book sexa don It's all about how he woman's evolved and the psychology of relationships, sexuality, femininity, what's been oppressed, what's been supported? It like different cultures throughout the world, or it will just blow your mind. Oh,

when you talk about that sort of caveman brain. I don't know why I've always referred to it as like lizard brain, because I'm like, it's this weird little part of our brains that comes from before we were supposed to be these higher self people. And I think it's that desire to survive that's hardwired, which also is what can make us such nightmares with scarcity mentality, you know, the myth that there isn't enough to go around makes us all crazy. Maybe we have like an apocalypse shelter

just engaged just in case that fits. Because Nathan, who is this protector joy you were saying when we watched the episode, you're like, oh my god, what a hero. When he dies water. I'm still on a soapbox about James needing an action hero movie career. Yeah, he is such a hero. Yeah, and it's effortless for him, Like there's never a question of whether or not Nathan's going to go into that water and that dive who was really James. That's great. I wouldn't have done it. There's

no fucking way. If I had been handed a script that said Hillary Burton jumps off a bridge into some dirty water, that would have happened. There would have been a man in a blonde wig. Are you serious? Never? I would have been done it. Really, I asked, here's the love acting, that's the fun of it. I don't know. I want to stand real still. Oh my god, sign me up to get dirty. I'm in. I love nothing thing more than doing stunts. I like all the action adventure.

But what I'm going to tell you right now is what I have done that in North Carolina and the river No, because there were gators and you There's no way, you know, if I knew it was safe, it was. If it was unsafe, I wouldn't have done it. For sure. There was always a little unsafe. They'd always be like, you'll be fine. Yeah, we get staff infections, You're fine. I don't worry. Remember going to do a movie in Louisiana in the early two thousands of being like, hey,

should I get some hepatitis shots? Because I knew I was going to have to do a whole bunch of water work. I mean, That's what ruined it was doing like all this like swamp work. I was like, do I need to get hip shots or anything where? And They're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you should get all of those. And I'm like, how come no one in Wilmington's was ever like, Hey, you're going to be in the swamps, we should get you some shots. Yeah, dirty water above the waist is real. It's scary. I mean

for depending on how long you're in it. I even did a kayak now the l A River when I was like, what, I don't know about how m I feel about this sitting in this kayak, it's a little I definitely drank a lot of water and just pee for a while. After you're just like clean it all out. This episode is called t M I. I love those episodes. Guys. Yeah, I mean what happened at the beginning of the episode, Well, we have so here's what the basic recap is. We

have Dan and deb We've got Karen and Dan. We've got Rachel and Cooper, and then Lucas, Brook, Peyton and Nathan and Haley. Um those are the mouth. Mouth was sweet, sad sweet, said DJ. I wish he had a little more meat, but we were kind of filled up with that episode. Um, that episode was bananas. I remember we spent like half a day shooting the Michelle Featherstone Music because the labels would let us have artists, but we

had to basically shoot a music video, you know. And they gave her a couple of lines with Cooper, Yeah they did. She had that sweet British accent. She came back though, didn't she She came back later and played Trick. I think she did. She remember. I liked her. I like her musical, just went time with her a little bit. We didn't go hang out outside of work. We just remember sitting back and chatting with her um on the

off time. Because those were long days. A wedding episode, finale episodes and the wedding and fine, whether we had a concert at Trick or a wedding, you knew you were in for like basketball days, you were like, here we go, it's going to be eighteen hours. I better bring a knitting needle or a mad libs book because and we also, every single one of us had to be done up, Like it's one thing to do everyday makeup, it's another thing to have to do heightened event hair

and makeup. And so we would have to start shooting this second the sun came up, so we would have as many daylight hours as possible. So we were going into work at like three thirty, four o'clock in the morning, so that all, like literally every woman on the show was being done, and we were yeah, yeah, you're there like three thirty. You start shooting at like six thirty, rehearsal at six am, dawn breaks at six thirty, and then you're just in it till well that's why you

said we all had our hair up. Remember, because my first I'm coming in that sun sun kissed T shirt. I had to get in somewhere, get it in there. Karen has her hair up. I've got my hair up. Then Sofia, you get your hair. But then I'm setting up the wedding yea. And then all the wedding stuff is hair up, locked in place, hair, hair spray, like we do not. I guarantee you. In that pre production meeting, they set the hair department down and they said, we do not have time for hair. Oh, I guarantee you

the hair department yea. I was going to sit down and said, we cannot do all these girls with their hair down like you like it. So either san JoJo's san JoJo's, You're either gonna let us put their damn hair up, or you're gonna need to give an extra day on this episode, that's right. Or we made four more hair people expassive four hair people are um, yeah, no,

they had to make it really, really easy. I'm just sitting around so much on this episode, really, and I seem to remember like Bevan and Danil like getting into some mischief. It feels like they would have got a huge property. Yeah, we were at Orton and it was like just a massive property. It was so beautiful. But we were definitely like there was a lot to do on off time, lots of places to wander and explore. That's what we're like stray cats too, because they're like,

what's around this corner. Oh, look there's the river, and we'll walk to it. You know. It makes me uncomfortable though, to look back and know where we were filming. Well, and I know, listen, we were like we were in a very small town in in the South. Every old house we shot in had conflicting history. Yeah, and and like there weren't really it's not like we were somewhere like New York where there's a million locations, Like there's not a lot of places to go. But I don't know,

it just makes me feel well. The place where we had dance funeral that was an old home, remember, like the fake Dream funeral, that was an old home with some conflicted history. Like we we ended up shooting in a lot of places that were places where we wouldn't necessarily go today because plantation culture is gross, you know, and it's gross to put a shiny gloss on it. And so I think I think our show was more

enamored with the fact that fire Starter filmed there. The first big movie that came to Wilmington's was fire Starter with Drew Barrymore, and it shows she was she was baby, and that was when people were like, oh, this town has some neat elements, we should do more here. So

that was more than nod. I think our show was making what I will say is uncomfortable as it is, and for as many things as they failed at, I do appreciate that, given the constraints of just what was available, and that we did end up there, I do appreciate that the powers that be filmed of what you saw was just in the garden. Yeah, we didn't do it. We didn't like the columns and the and the actual structure of it, And I don't know. I don't have an answer. I'm just I just feel that like feeling

we talk about it because we wouldn't go back. Um, I'm already lost back there. There's like all these abandoned buildings in those woods because I shot a couple of things there. Yeah, there's a lot, there's so much on that property. It's wild. It's like a lake in the middle of Yeah, it's huge. I think the only other I mean Airly is how big was Airly Gardens that at a lake too, didn't Yeah, that was also massive and didn't that used to be the Joneses property. It

was like Airly and Landfall. And then this is a fun little tidbit for you guys at home. The phrase this is what I've been told. I believe it's true. Um, the phrase keeping up with the Joneses literally came from this family who was like the wealthiest FAMI, one of the wealthiest families, And it was in Wilmington's called the Joneses. And they build the built more yeah probably, Yeah, it

was Pembroke Jones. Pembroke Jones, that's right, that's right. And they had this massive, massive, massive property in Wilmington that has now been split up into early gardens and Landfall and the golf course and all this other stuff. But that was all the Jones's property, so you wanted to keep up with the Joneses. I love the Sophia. Noticed that the reception was over and it was still daylight outside.

Sad well, No, it felt like it felt like the budget of high schoolers, where it's like, you know, when you're buying the wedding packages and you're like, am I going to get the full bar that goes till two? Am I'm gonna do the braunch wedding? That's right? Cost effective man? And you get your friend mouth to be the DJ. I loved it. I lstro turf inside that tent, astro turf in the tent. Everything was purple. Guys, Why

did our set designers like purple so much? Even Le Norris's tie with those big headphones on his tie was like gray and purple and lavender stripes. Wow, they really were obsessed with purple, red and white. That was it? Maybe well, maybe that was like they were given that note by the studio or something like keep the look. These are the color schemes what we like for this show, keep it. What are the color schemes for other shows? What we need is like a like a Pinterest mood

board palette. I'm sure Sophia can coordinate that. I feel like Dawson's Creek was like yellows and greens and oranges, the orange I was gonna say. Yeah, we based everything for Good Sam on like a really beautiful like peacock teal and a copper colors and evolved and it was pretty. I feel like my husband's show is just kind of like brown. Yeah, that's just that's what I think of when I think of Rocking Dead, just dirty brown and gray brown, and it's brown. It's like a Cormick McCartney

novel come to life. But that's it. When you think about the color palettes of your shows, that's an interesting I've never thought to decorate my home and like my favorite color palettes from TV shows. I'm gonna fall down that rabbit hole later today. I bet it exists. The Internet's vast. Yeah, there's an account that I follow on Instagram that does the Pantone breakdowns of films. Yeah, that's

it is my favorite Pantone. Yeah, okay, let's talk about Rachel and Cooper Daniel was so good that scene in the God Wow, Well she was good. Like it's sloppy too, because we've all been hurt the mad girl, like I've acted out, But it's interesting because she we was We've been saying about Rachel that she sort of had this bird's eye view of everything, that she seemed so unbothered by so many things, especially by Brooke. It just was

like she was so easy to shrug things off. So it's interesting to see this character all of a sudden just we found her Achilles heel. Yeah it's a boy, but it's an older guy. I don't know, it's really I don't know. It's interesting to me. Well, it's the

value that that attention gives you. And because she did so badly just want to be older and out of high school and over it all, I mean, Rachel and to be loved as a trophy guy that you know, Rachel has this storyline that she built herself into a trophy girl to like she was worthy, which she had

a term that she used right with mouth edwards. She made herself an elite girl and you know the NASCAR superstar that's that's a pretty elite guy and she I think there is that thing of wanting to be worthy and and she really brought that Rachel backstory into this storyline in a way. As an actor that was so beautiful and you could see the hurt and the rage and that sort of anger and that acting out. It's just a mask for your wound. And to see her act out first and then kind of dropped the mask

and be this heartbroken girl. The little girl thing really jarring to see she was acting. She's a little kid, a little like puffy little days. Her makeup was splotchy, so she just looked so young and sad and scared. Yeah, wait, what do we think she was going to tell Cooper? I think she said she's pregnant. Surely not all the girls made that announcement on the same day. Brooke was worried Karen is pregnant. Haley I think it's also pregnant. Yeah,

I think Haley is pregnant. But won't isn't this? Isn't this gonna be when Brook kind of takes the fall per Haley being pregnant for a little bit, I guess, So remember that that happened. Oh yeah, Oh you guys weren't talking to me at that point because we really still does love painting anymore. We really stole storylines from Friends. We did. That's a total yes. When Rachel's pregnant and Monica takes the hit for her for like two or three episodes. I missed that season. I think, Well, apparently

the writer's room didn't. Well. Also, there's just only so many things people can do. It's like, you're when you get pregnant, you either tell people or you don't. You're as a girl, you're either pregnant or you're not. We need a mash mashing. So we're pregnant, not pregnant, don't tell single partnered, you know. I don't know. There's like not that many things that happened to everybody, so I kind of get it. But I didn't know that they

did that on Friends. Yeah, any that might be coming up, So we covered their poster and then we copied their stories. I love the accuracy though, of showing how getting stressed out everyone was behind the scenes at this wedding because everyone wants it to be so perfect for Nathan and Haley, but meanwhile all the friends are imploading and so that walk down the aisle where everyone is faking smiles and deb is like I hate you so much. We're talking

to each other like everyone is faking it. And I have been at those weddings where people are just like this sucks. Okay, cool, how are we going to get out of here? There's like, you know, there's there's so much work to do, and when you are close to the bride and groom, you want to be the people

that do it, that like up and do it. So I've been at weddings where I've done all the hair and makeup are done, the floor arrangements done, whatever, and you end up looking like at the wedding and you're so tired ceremony and just like, oh, let's get this over. I guess I just say your thing. Yeah, we all know you love each other. Ahead, okay, now we're so happy for you, we're also so tired. We're so tired. Yeah.

It's true that I think has been the greatest lesson for me of this stage we're in as grown ups is making sure if you ask people to come to something, they don't have to work, because all of our friends are helpers. Like that's what we do. We jump in and go what do you need? Let me get it. I got that. Hold on, let me get the bag and I'll do the thing. And I'll run around the corner to those sorts of get you the tights, whatever

it is. And God, when you can and you can invite people to something and be like, for real, all you have to do is drink a glass of wine, enjoy, Like that is the marker. I'm not doing a school project right now, friends, drink your wine. How about well, speaking of helping out, how about Dan starting out by tying Lucas is tie. That was so gross And I was also confused by Dan in this episode, well, like the way he wanted to father Lucas in that moment to be parental, and then the way that he went

to Karen and hugged her. I hated it. I had a totally opposite reaction. What oh my god. It made me so uncomfortable. I was so upset. I know you guys were like, grow grossed out. I think I was like I was looking at Paul's face and seeing how remorseful Dan Wasn't that No, I know, I know, I know Dan, you know he does it. He does it and then he takes it back and then he does he does crazy things and then he apologizes that. I mean, that's just his habit. We know he's like, uh, nut.

But I think, as a single mom, having done all that work myself, um, the idea of hearing that from the one person who never, you know, I would have said he Dan never ever said that to Karen and they that he would have taken a moment to say, I never apologized for how I treated you, and the way you could tell he was actually really wrought. And I know he's a narcissist, I know he's a nut, but that moment like meant something to me as a

single mom. I was like, Wow, that to hear that from the one person who you know never did or would never say that, it's like, oh my god, that's so meaningful. And I understood exactly why she confessed that she was pregnant in that moment, like knowing their history, knowing like everything that they've it's it's once you're tied in so tightly with someone, the good and the battle kind of come out at the same time. Sometimes I think, Um, I didn't and I understood his instinct to want to

care and her instinct to go to him. It wasn't like she actually trusted him. I didn't feel that she was by letting him hug her or by accepting that moment of safety from him. It didn't feel like she was like, Okay, now forever we're friends and you can take care of my baby. But there was it was like a peacemaking moment, and I just appreciated the moment of like two people who really really had so much awful things passed between them to have a moment of peace,

I guess. And it's interesting to hear the way you say it, because yes, there are things I've experienced where I would love somebody to say, wow, I'm really sorry, Like that would be so nice, but not like validating, not like oh finally they said it. It's like it's just you hunger for that sort of like well, but that's what I mean, Like it would be nice to receive that. Yeah, I'm not waiting for it, but but once you said it, I went, yeah, that would actually

be really interesting. I think what gave me that like creepy Crowley feeling was he was so clearly in this moment of realization of his own monstrous behavior, and it just comes out because he is speaking about Keith with sadness. She doesn't know why obviously, and I don't know he's so desperate for to be redeemed. Sure, but about I guess to me it felt like he he wanted he wanted to be the good guy or like for me,

our boss. The two sides to that coin are half of him was Mouth and half of him was Dan Scott, and he was processing his own ego bullsh through those two characters. And so he's the Dance Scott of my life right where it's like, I'm gonna pretend to be your friend, I'm going to be your mentor, I'm going to do all the things for you. I believe in you and you're so special and then you don't you you know, like that attitude. And so when I see Dan doing that, my reaction is, oh, I never one

an apology. You stay as farther away from me is humanly possible for eternity. Yeah, I am scorched Earth. I get that. Don't even come up here. I totally get that. Yeah, And so it's well, but it's different because ultimately for him, his own ego, like even though it was sincere in the moment, and he was desperate for redemption. He's looking for it from the wrong place. Sure, well, then he's only desperate for redemption, so upset, but he the anger

out on the wrong person. All of our personal experiences color what we see three totally different ways, of course. And you know, for the audience of whatever two million kids a week that were watching the show, who were they envisioning their teacher, their parents, you know, like their partner, whatever. Um. But I was I got emotional. I was watching that scene and there was instantly got emotional, and you guys were like, I got so naushas I'm still nauseous. Is

my chest read like it? That was my favorite. I loved that scene between the two of you going to Brooke and payton Um in the bedroom because I loved even though it was a little extra. I mean, that drama was so like if I had slept with her husband and they had four children. Yes, let's go there, who we didn't even talk to in school last year. We even talked to this. But your chest got so red.

It's so funny that you were. I love seeing that. Well, yeah, because also there was this sense when they were writing all of the Peyton Brooke breakup stuff that like we've done all this work to get over the competition, to get over the team Brooke, team Payton of it all, and Janoah's all falling apart. It felt physically bad, like it really like you know when your body chemicals are doing stuff when you're acting and you're like, I have zero control over this. It just feels toxic and kind

of like acidic in your throat. And that was my reaction to all the Brook Peyton having a fight and so like I knew, Sophia is slapping at me like it was up setting. That was awful set, and I liked that Peyton's reaction was like I'm not going to react. I'm not going to react. I'm not gonna re act. I love you. I'm gonna love you through this. And it's like not working and she finally reached her threshold. It's how I work with my kids, Like my kids

are farting around. I'm like, I'm gonna let you have this moment. Okay, you slam the door, you could, Okay, you're gonna throw hands. We're gonna throw hands. That's what we're gonna do. How long is this gonna go on like is there a clock on it? And then finally you hit your point where you're like, now I have to Now we're done. Now I'm an asshole. Yeah, but that's important to parenting. Kids have to know when where

their limit is. That's part of the great thing about being a parent is that you're the safe place that the kids can go crazy. But they know that there will be a wall all that they hit and it's a it's a boundary that feels safe, so they know what the rules are. I wanted. I wanted to be soft and gentle like a parent with Brooks. But here's the thing. Okay, all right, we need to clean this up though, because the audience has been giving me about this for so long. What They're all like, ok, you

believe you were told brook you foolds for looks. I'm like, yeah, because the last time when Peyton didn't, she got into old for that. So please, yeah, for the love of God, someone tell me what Peyton was supposed to do. Yeah, here's the thing. What it is. It's not actually that they're mad that you that Peyton told brook which, by the way, yeah, it's not that they're mad that Peyton

told Brook. It's that they're mad at the situation. Somebody being in love with their best friend's boyfriend, that's a shitty situation, even when she liked him first. But but you have but she said she didn't brooke ast many times, and here Peyton was like, no, I don't know, I don't know, I don't and but this is it? Right? People could see it. She didn't say it, I asked, but I couldn't see it. So everybody's right and everybody's wrong.

But I think what we really need to come to terms with is that somebody being in love with their best friend's partner is a shitty situation. Yeah, you don't have a good option and a bad option. You have a bad option and a worse option. Yeah, so lying about it and kissing Lucas behind Brooks back worse option. Telling Brooke you're in love with her boyfriend bad option. But it's the better of the two options. So people need to stop saying, well, why would Peyton tell her

it's like because at least she's being honest. Yeah, because what else are you supping to do? Like, you can't live your life hanging out with your best friend and her boyfriend who you're in love with and then you like never quite yourself, and at the to the day, you're either going to start distancing yourself from your friend because you just can't keep being around them, and then your friend's going to feel like, why did I lose my best friend? Why are you being a weird? At least?

I mean, I think you did exactly the right thing. I think what else was just pain supposed to do? Yeah, it's it's really weird to me when people want characters to be perfect, but they also watch their favorite characters for the drama and they watch for the conflict, they watch for the modeling of conflict resolution, and it's like

life is super messy. You know, every single one of us has had our hearts completely broken by someone, and we've broken hearts who as you know, it's you're You're never going to get through life without being wounded or without wounding someone else. The whole point is, how are you going to learn to show up, to be honest, to have grace for other people, to learn to have grace for yourself, to be a good friend, and and to get through the mess in any measure of with

any measure of honesty. I'm just realizing that our eighth grade dance, I was Peyton Sawyer horrible. What did you do? I was in love with this boy since kindergarten, talk about him all the time, and he wanted to date my friend, and I wanted him to date my friend, like I wanted to be noble, like Peyton wanted to be noble. So I talked myself into going out with his best friend. I went out with his best friend, John, and we were going to go to the school dance.

I got to the school dance and John was were in a new outfit, and I was sick to my stomach because I was like, I don't really like this guy. I'm just trying to like who everyone told me to like, And is that what they be doing with? Like, like, it'd be easier for everyone if I just with Pete or with Jake, like Jake's Gray eight, But like, it will be easier for everyone if I picked someone no one wants to compete with. I feel that way about Peyton and Pete for sure. I still feel like Peyton

and Jake really had it. But then we lost Brian Greenberg energy and we had to pretend that Peyton didn't love Jake. Yeah, you know what I want for Peyton someone not from Tree Hill? Like, is there someone from New York City? Is there someone from from that'd be fun? Yeah? Is there someone who didn't grow up along that river bank? Somebody like like the grown up version of a foreign

exchange student. That's who Payton needs to be with. Somebody who came from another country, speaks a couple of the languages, should get a passport out of the second marriage. It's like Lucas is her Lourie, but she really needs to find her what's his name? Frederick? Who was the guy Joe Mary? Yes, the hot older guy. Yeah right, I mean that's my vibe. Whatever. Man, sometimes you got to take from life and turnative art. Fine, So what else

didn't we've hit on this episode? I mean, well, you're Brooke, You're seen with Lucas where you're like, why don't you ever let me all the way in Sophia. There's a reason the fans post gifts of that and like put it up all the time. That was rude all it

was so say, I loved it. I loved it. That was one of the best pieces of writing they had given me in three years, Like I read that and thought, oh, I know, I know this, this this is important, Like this isn't something I have to figure out how to be okay with doing, you know, or like fight to make it better. I was like, no, this is true. This is like a true human experience. And yeah, I

loved I loved that scene. What's so weird is that we have this episode about high schoolers getting married, so trying to act like grown ups, but we see so many of our beloved high school girls acting like really little girls. Book is a little girl in this episode, and Rachel is a little girl in this episode, and so it's I don't know. That duality is kind of weird. It's like we've got babies getting married against the backdrop

of babies sad. And it's interesting because it is. There's a there's an innocence to it, and a and a desperation to be seen and loved and you know, held, and to feel safe. But I also think there's an inverse that is so mature to say, I see you and you don't see me. You don't you tell me how you feel, but you don't act like it with me. And I know the difference. I'm smart enough to know the difference, and I think there's something there. You know, We've talked a lot as we've been on tour about

what the turning points have been for our characters. And I think about brook starting our business and beginning, you know, to stop letting boys define her as such a turning point. But I realize that even that scene between Brooke and Lucas is a turning point for her because she says, you tell me that you missed me, but you didn't call. You know, you say you needed to be alone, but I was going through this too, and you you didn't care.

And she's beginning to really assert that she deserves to be respected and included and acknowledged and being included the big thing, like, especially when you're you're dating someone you're kind of insecure about, you know, if they talked to their friends about you, you know, if they like boys are so dumb about that stuff though they don't know, like how they're not emotionally intelligent generally. I think that's

a cop out. I think that whole things I'm like or maybe they're just I don't think it has to do with swer. I think their brains are just they just think differently they're wired differently, so they don't think about like we are. We are narratives, were storytellers. We have this a lot of this emotional connection instinct and that's again like tribal from many, many, many many. As the mother of a boy, it's an evolutionary thing because

there's no one more sensitive sweet son. Yes, there was no one with a more like feminist let's talk about our feelings mother than my sweet son. One of his best friends, a female, gave him this whole speech about you know, this pandemic was really hard and I just want you to know you're my best friend and I love you and like you're like, thank you for being safe for me. And my son looked at her and

said cool and walked away. Yeah. And her mother I was like, you're not gonna believe what your boy did, and it's because he just is persn't understand the words and didn't know how to supercare. He probably just received it all and he was like, awesome. That means a lot. I feel the same. Cool the boys don't. They're all

like they just don't know. It's no but but that's where there's a the you have to learn each other's love language you have to learn what is how do I communicate with this person in a way that is a little outside of my comfort zone? But I know we'll be meaningful for them. I think I shouldn't be more like that. I should talk less and just be like cool, cool. Yeah, that's a Brooks should have said.

When Lucas came after her. She should have just turned around and be like, hey, cool with the hand with the hand up cool. Um. Love that hotel by the way,

oh guys, I just loved. I really would like to say thank you to the nice folks at the Omni because having a bunch of adults say can you please put us in rooms all side by side or all at the end of with connecting doors, it was probably so annoying, and they did it for us and we got to just run around in those fluffy hotel robes and like run in and out of each other cities and those hotels. How about that Boston one though, Boston. That was the coolest bathtub I think I've ever been

in in a hotel room. Thing, the art art work when you walk in. No, I loved it, and I will say shout out to the folks at the Omni in d C. Because I think by then they've been watching our Instagram stories and realized we're a group who loves Shenanigans. And they put a bottle of champagne in each of our rooms. Yeah, and we got there and we were like, oh, you know who we are by the third city, don't try And it was very sweet. It was like they decorated the lobby of the New

York Omni for us. It was like a drama queen set with the chandeliers and all the flowers, and there was not one person that batted and I when we were shooting content the lobby because they're like in robes and selfie dresses, they're like, of course these girls are here. Yeah, of course where else would we be? They were great, thank you guys. All right, we're spending a wheel. We have most likely to banana eat something off the ground.

Maybe it's definitely yeah, I mean it's got to be clean, like I won't eat something off a really like an obviously dirty floor. But no, are you sure? Yes? I feel like I've heard you say like twelve second rule. But if it's a Florida is clean, it's not like I mean, if I dropped that restaurant. I'm not touching it. Yeah, or you caught off like airport No airport, no way, No, like a public place where there's a lot of foot traffic. I don't know, there's no way. See that depends my

house is what is it made of? Like if I'm porous not porous? Yeah, Like like if we were, for example, walking down the hallway and I had like those peanut butter pretzels and I dropped him, I'd pick them up and eat them off flo But I'm not gonna, like, I'm not gonna drop sliced apples on the ground like they're wet. They're some lint. If it can pick up lint, it's it's a pass. Gotta have a hard shell like an eminem. Yeah. Alright, well I'm glad we have the

boundaries now. Yeah, we're all cleared up. Guys. Thank you so much for joining us for this finale episode. We can't wait to start season four with all of you. Season four, there's so many new things coming up now we're flying through stuff. Yea, absolutely, guys. Our next episode is going to be the premier of season four. It is called The Same deep Water as You and I have a feeling we're going to pick up in a

limo in the river. Something tells me, something tells me, I can't wait see you then, Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We are all about that high school drama. Girl Drama Girl, all about them

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