Number 23 • EP418 Part 2 with James Lafferty

finally a positive title air date May sixteen, twenty and seven. James, James Lafferty is your ladies and John, we're so excited to my Nathan. Um. We were just joking. We always joke about how the titles of these episodes have been so depressing the last little while. So you brought us the sunshine, James, thank you. Yes, you're welcome, my synops. Nathan fears for his future as past mistakes come back

to haunt him and Haley Lucas. Here's a shocking confession after making contact with a mysterious witness to Keith's murder. Brooke rekindles her friendship with Peyton after crossing paths with Chase. That sounds so ominous, but you guys literally did just like bump into each other in a parking lot. But in the synopsis it makes it sound so dark. Yeah, it was like a literal blip on the radar. Nothing important happened there at all. So much important stuff happened

with Dan and he's not even in the synopsis. Oh my god, I'd love to talk about that's weird. Yeah, we have a lot to talk about the lead there. I guess this episode to me felt like somebody sat in a room and they wrote down on little strips of paper all the things that they needed to get through storylines they just needed to tie up and finish, and then threw them in a hat and then just pulled them out one at a time and pasted it to a board, taped them to the paper like a

ransom note. Oh yeah, exactly. It was so all over the place my face. Favorite episodes are when it's two totally different TV shows happening in the same episode, Like whatever you and James were doing, you two have this like loving, beautiful storyline about communication and Peyton was going to a prison under circumstances that have never existed in our judicial system ever, Like, can you ever any prison on the planet, letting a teenage girl just like lock

down that on a cell block. I was like, why are they not on the little visitor windows with the phones? This is not allowed? And the guy just shut the door and let you go in right, locked her in with all the inmates. I can't some serious dramatic effect going on there. For sure? Was that at a real prison or did they did they build that? Now, we went to a real prison one time. Yeah, the prison right next to the airport, remember we would land and

there's the prison right there. Yeah, yeah, welcome to Wilmington. Yeah, there's a treatment plant in a prison. Yeah. And then Mwood. No, they built that on set, right, I'm sure. Yeah. I Mean here's my question though, when we get into this discussion of like all these weird storylines that don't match up. Did you always read the entire script or did you do what Antoine did and just look at your stuff like all the is all the girls shit a surprise, dude.

I will never forget when Antoine told us all that he doesn't read the scripts. Just being like that is so awesome. For some reason, I don't know why, but I was I'm way too much of a scary cat to not read the scripts, like, I gotta read it all. I gotta know exactly what's going on, just in case, like I'm my character is supposed to be aware of it or supposed to inform anything. Like I just had that drilled into me. So I always read the scripts. Sweet. Yeah.

And then I never watched the show, That's the thing. So by the time I read the script and then shot it, I was like, I feel like I already know what happened, So why going to watch it? You never watched the show? I think I did, like the first season or but after the first season, No, I didn't. I've never liked watching myself that much. And and and again, like I just it was so weird. I just, for some reason, I just felt like I knew what happened. I did know what happened, and so I just wasn't

that compelled to see how it turned out. I just felt like, I know it turned out great. People like it. So probably why Antoine did see all the episodes of the show, because he never knew what was going to happen. Yeah, yeah, he's like, what's going on this week? He would Yeah, he would come to set and be like, man, that was crazy. That was crazy. Hey, y'all are good actors. You guys should do this for a living. But he says that all the time funny. Oh my god, Well

we've got Whitey right away. Kind of dealing with this press conference. Did you believe the idea that this high school point shaving would have solicited a huge media presence at Tree Hill High School? Um? You know at the time, I don't. I was so watching it this time. Yes, I was like, wait, what's going on here? Like, but I do. I was so like plugged into basketball at

the time, Um that I knew that. You know, every level of basketball from high school up has its own ecosystem of like I'm sure betting, um, but also you know rumors and news and you know, high school students are being like recruited and so they're getting like scores and like this is a five star recruit, this is a three star recruit. And then it's big business where

they go to college. Right, So it's like that sort of Um, you know, there's ride ups on great players and slam magazine like when when they're you know, juniors in high school and so that that kind of and so you know at the time, I was like, you know, this is the story we're telling. We're telling the story of a of a kid who's gonna go to you know, a national contender, possibly be in the NBA. Um. Yeah,

there would one media coverage around that. I didn't even know Slam Magazine was the thing, James, I just learned something. I was just thinking the same thing. Yeah. As soon as you said that, I looked across the zoom squares and I was like, he is telling a story, and the three of us are going though. That's what I love. Though, whoever wrote this episode who shall Remain nameless definitely knew that part of the story had probably read Slam magazine

research that part. The prison part not so much. We didn't google right right, And I guess it would have. It would have helped for some contexts there as well, just to like let us know, just to remind people who are not in the know, they're like, this is a big this is this would be a huge would be in is a big deal? Um, Like maybe this happened to somebody else, you know, in the past, or you know another player you know, this is a perfect

example or whatever. But but yeah, but but I mean, you know, I haven't watched as much basketball lately, or you know, I don't read Slam magazine anymore, so um, like watching it this time, Hey, what the hell happened here? Like what's going on? But yeah, I think I think it tracks. I don't know about having the press conference like a common area of the school. That just seems

like that budget issue i've been a reality issue. It's actually really interesting that you say that though that there is there is I mean, duh, there's a whole ecosystem for this. It's one of the biggest sports in the world. But that feels like there would have been such a cool opportunity when Nathan went to see Dan to talk about his fears and talk about the fact that there

were investigators around. That would have been such a cool opportunity for Dan to tell Nathan a story that would have clued in the audience that didn't subscribe to Slam magazine about how serious this was. You know, He's like, Nathan, let me show you. This issue is Slam magazine. Yeah, in the summer of nineteen ninety two. He pulls out a shot box. Yeah, exactly. We do a lot of theorizing Dan had his own stuff going on, didn't he That was this was a huge episode for Paul. Yeah,

what a great performance. I think him and Matt Barr they like saved this episode of their performances. To me, that was beautiful. Well, I just want to know what was happening in the ecosystem of our show that not only did we have the Matt bar horror storyline, but now we have like all these horror storylines converging. Like you've got a teenage girl being gas lit by her mother and Dan Scott pointing a gun in a store, and like, I know, like everything's a horror film except

for you. It's the same thing. Yeah, except for us. Oh yeah, but it was the same thing over again. So like now we're watching a crazy man hold two women hostage again. Yeah, like two episodes later. It's really interesting because in the beginning, when you go to see him, James and you are talking about what's happening, and you know, you're a boy who's afraid talking to his dad and he I wrote down what he said. He said, stay cool, deny everything, pray no one ever uncovers the truth, and

you know he's talking about himself. He's telling you what he's been doing since he shot Keith, and he's starting to lose it, Like he looks like he's gonna cry joy. Do you remember? You were like, what is going on with in Paul's eyes? It's so interesting and it opens in this space where you're like, whoa, We're really going

to get inside what Dan's going through. And then he holds these women hostage and makes it all about Karen was supposed to be mine, and I'm like, wait a second, we're in weird like male possessiveness over women, like their trophies. He shot somebody like it just went completely off the rails. That's where I feel like they got pulled out of a hat and they were just like they'll say this, but then he handed them this little weird rag doll.

At the end, I was so I don't know, Paul did such a great job, because that's one of those things when you're handed material that you just read and you're like, what the hell is this? How am I supposed to to make sense out of this? And there's really only one way to do it, and that's to commit fully and just go all the way in. You know,

he's just gonna look stupid otherwise, so he really committed. Yeah, but I feel like he also played the nuance really well too, you know, like that's where he like goes into the house with Abby and her mom is is kind of like, you know, you're watching it, You're like,

this is this is stub but terrible. But he did such He did such a great job of like walking this line of of being dominant to get what he wants in that moment, but also being like like afraid, you know, and sort of like he was like begging and demanding at the same time, which is not an easy thing to do, and especially when you're like depicting a situation like that where you are so clearly the aggressor. Um. I thought he just did a really good job of

walking the line between like dangerous and desperate. And in this episode, yep, it's weird. It's weird to see someone with that big of a body, right, and you're literally watching Paul do everything he can not to man handle those women who are trying to push him out, and it's this strange kind of like terminator walk where he doesn't have to push them down on the couch, he doesn't have to do anything physical with the women. It's just like a pheromone that's like making people recoil from him.

It's scary. He fills up the doorway. He opened the door and it's all Dan, completely Wow, He's just holding this brown paper bag. It's in the bag, Dan, what's in the bag? I've got thoughts. Okay, what are your thoughts. Here's what Because I watched this episode separately from you guys, and Yeah and James, just so you know, we talk about all the things going on behind the scenes as well as what was going on camera, and so everyone knows. At the end of season four was a particularly weird

time for me with our boss. Last week, we watched the Honey Grove episode and I was like, I was hiding in a hotel room with James half the time, stealing the walkie talkies from the ad department, just like Hi. Now. But in this episode, I can tell that I'm like not doing well. I'm super broken out, I'm super stressed,

I'm not super checked into my performance. And You've got two storylines where women are confronting men who have assaulted them, saying I'm gonna tell you can't do this to me anymore. And the men are pushing back Ian Banks, the bad guy named after my boyfriend at the time. They used my boyfriend's name. Are you serious, that's right? Yeah. He's like, you're a tease. You asked for this, You were tease, you asked for this. Abby tells Dan, I'm gonna tell

and is very quickly put in her place. No, you are not right. And they hired Sean Young, who had been a very very successful young actress who had the world at her feet and who very publicly had her part reduced in Wall Street because she had conflict with Oliver Stone, who had been replaced in other movies because she was outspoken, and who had been dragged through the mud publicly for speaking out against her bosses. And to Mia felt like a really deliberate casting because this is

too small of a part for her. There's no reason why they shouldn't have cast a local actress except to have kind of this example of like, this is what happens when you're a pain in the ass, and I was a pain in the ass. Yeah, they were firing a warning shot. Yeah, yeah, I mean she was. I mean it's she was pretty much run out. Was this her only episode? I think so? I mean, I don't know that we see Abby again. Yeah, they leave, Lucas goes at the end of the episode in their house

is empty, but Abby doesn't Abby come back. I feel like Alison came back. She was a great actress. Do you remember working with Alison in the classroom James? Yeah, No, I remember was that season three or season two three? Season three? Yeah? I remember being struck by how good she was, and she was. She was super young, right like at that time, wasn't she like she's little, She's like yeah, yeah, But I remember being like, hey man,

she's she's a beast. Like she was really had this crazy, you know, emotional reservoir and was just really like locked in as well. I just remember he being super focused, super locked in, and that's not an easy thing to do show up on a set like that as a kid and just make mince meat out of those scenes, you know. Yeah, I mean, especially if like there's so much which pressure, like that was a huge episode for

anyone to come in. We talked to Colin a lot about coming in for the school shooting episode and just having to perform because the weight of it is so much more than just like, you know, a typical episode of television. You've got to carry the emotional weight of a nation of viewers, and so she doesn't get let off the ropes. Now she's got to do it this many episodes later, What did you guys think about the fact that her mom was like gaslighting her and saying,

your name's not Abby, is it? Oh? No, No, she was trying to prove that. She was trying to prove to Lucas that Abby's gone crazy, that all she can ever do is just shake her head. So she was trying to trying to put a chink in the in the armor of him thinking that she had confirmed his theory. Yeah, I wrote down, I said, is the mom coaching her to do this to keep her safe because the mayor's the murderer? I mean it was like literally in my note,

and then two pages later, Abbey is pretending. Yeah, So that just goes to show the folks at home, we literally don't remember what we did. But so strange, so strange. Yeah, that they came in and never came back. That's it. That's their last both of their last episode. That is well, because it really did feel like a jumping off point more than anything else. I feel like, right, Yeah, but that idea that the mom not that it makes it right.

By the way, I imagine it would be very traumatizing were this real for a teenager at your parents treating them that way. But this idea that you're so terrified that the you know, the guy in charge of your town got away with murder, he murdered his sibling. Yeah, so you think I cannot let him kill my kid. I can't let this come down on my kid, my kid who goes to school with this guy's kids. Yeah, and so maybe, I mean, there's obviously the behind the

scenes stuff which you brought up. Hell, but I feel like the way they probably pitched it in the writer's room was there's just so much fear and as soon as Abby's said it, they're running out of town. M yeah, right, Or it's like, yeah, it's her way of her way of protecting her, like you're it's best to just not touch this at all and stay away from it because it's it's too dangerous kind of thing. I don't know.

It feels like a spicy Lifetime movie like those ripped from the headline movies about moms that make their kids be sick. What is that Munchausen syndrome? Cha, Yeah, you're in a wheelchair now, Abby, deal with it. Oh God. This whole episode actually was kind of a cheesy, cheesy, chevy movie, wasn't it. Like I'm just like the point No, but the point shaving that's its own movie, like Basketball Star shaves points. What's going to happen? Will his brother

take the fall? You know? And then you guys with your one of the prison thing. Yeah, I mean this was this was definitely around the time in the show when things started moving at this pace, right, Like, Yeah, I mean there was always things that happened that were a little bit out there sometimes, but I feel like they started happening more often around around this time. Right, we were really water skiing toward that shark. At this point,

we're moving towards it. We're gonna jomb They had started making fun of us on the soup, right, and rather than be offended by it, I feel like our bosses saw an opportunity to lean into it and say, great, any press is good press. Let's really make them talk about us, but let's talk about how as actors that made us feel like, James, do you remember our show being on the Soup and being made fun of I do. Yeah, yeah, when when was that? Yes, Psych made fun of us too,

they did, Sych made fun of us all the time. Yeah. I it's it's interesting because I always felt like there was um the way that our fani there was like two worlds like our our show made like an impact in two do very different ways with two very different groups of people. It's like the industry kind of saw our show one way and then fans um saw our show another way, like um, we were no, yeah, if that makes sense. Like so, it wouldn't ever really like a surprise to me that a show like The Soup

would make fun of us. And when they did make fun of us, I thought they kind of nailed it, like they were funny. You're like, all right, that's true. And I didn't hate being on the Soup. I thought it was like it's sort of like a you know, a little badge of water in a way. But I also always had the I guess I just yeah, I got satisfaction out of knowing that it you know, people people still people dug it. There were people out there who did like it, And we're taking those twists and

turns with us. Um. And and you know, I'm not really sure how we did that, like how we struck that we walk that line, um, struck that tone. Um, it's it's something original to our show at least, you know. And and and I don't know if it's the reason that we didn't find a bigger audience or it's the reason part of the reason why we just have the audience that we do. Like it's it's so hard to know. Yeah, but yeah, what the impact of all that really was.

But I just try to take it and stride. I guess well, And I think to your point that that sort of mix that seesaw it is fun to watch heightened drama. Yeah, it's fun, it's engaging. We enjoy it. It's it's you know, a similar version to your point earlier. It's why people like horror movies. But we also had so much heart we had that we had those realities

we had. You know, I wrote down something about how in that first scene when the two of you are at the river court, Nathan and Hayley on the picnic, Oh so cute, Oh my god, and you're like just expressing all your fears to your person and it's so like it's just so poignant. I made a note about the apparent pain on your face. And then when you go to the to do your press conference and you actively choose not to be damn and you give this composed speech, but it's clearly so poignant. You get to

see growth. And yeah, most kids aren't dealing with point shaving because of gambling in a high school. Like the container is ridiculous, but what you guys put in it is very real. And even the Brook and Peyton in this episode, you know, the container of a psychoderic is insane. But friends showing up for each other after somebody gets assaulted and saying that guy ki shame. It never matters what you're wearing. You didn't do anything wrong. You are

not a tease. That is his problem and we're going to fight back. That is something that almost every group of female friends I know has had to do at one point or another in their lives. And it's real and I think those are the things to your point, James, Like, that's what I think the fans click into is is what was made real inside of a TV. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a really good point. I mean, I mean, just to run with that a little bit like I I watch Alex and I watch Firefly Lane on Netflix. Have

you guys seen that show? Um? And I remember like as as I was watching it, you like, I remember thinking like, oh man, this is like this kind of reminds me of like One Tree Hill in some ways. Um, And you know, it feels a little bit soapy, but I just I stuck. I stuck with it, and by the end of the show, I like, obviously now I like love the show and I can't wait for the rest of it to come out and stuff. You're so cute.

But I think I realized like watching the show, like, oh, this is why this is why soap works is because they take you to these like crazy extreme ends sometimes where you're like, Okay, what am I doing here? But yeah, but they trick you, like they get you. They get

you to believe it for that second. And when they get you to believe it and then something like you're saying, so if you like something um like really organic and like relatable comes from it, then you're just like it's like you've been at it, like like you've just been watching a magician do his thing for an hour and suddenly you're like Um, this guy's like the coolest person in the world, right, Like we're kind of conditioning the audience to do what we do when we have to

have a reaction and there's just a c standard a tennis ball in that way, like we're teaching the you know, the audience is buying something that is clearly not real, but because the emotion behind it and the people that are there feel connected to reality, they go there with us. Yeah, it's a totally different way of storytelling, but like it

does work if done right, I guess. Yeah. Do you also feel that we were kind of doing tag team wrestling because like a group up of us would get to do something really earnest and heartfelt while the other group had to like get into the ring and do the slapstick body slam like crazy. Shit. Are always trading places? Were always There's not one single episode where we're all just like steady, Like there's giddy up always. Who who

was your your most mischievous partner? You know, you've got good stuff with chat in this episode that I want to talk about. Obviously, you enjoy had twenty seven years worth of marital strife conquer strife. Yeah, but you also had you had Brett Claywell, you had Tyler Hilton, you had Robert Buckley. After I was gone like like who are the people that when you read the script you were like, uh, we're gonna get oh Man, Well definitely, you know Tim. I mean I ended up in like

a girl Scout costume with Tim. But then as the show went on, Um, yeah, I mean Chris Keller. Like every time Chris Keller came to town, it was like you guys, I feel like I feel like almost were like praying that our characters would bounce off of him. Well, ye long he was going to be there. You know. He was so great and such an amazing energy and just like like the guy is so just magnetic on screen, like no matter no matter what he's doing, I mean

I can't. He just gets away with his character gets away with murder because he's so freaking charming, and I think, um, I love that stuff. I loved, you know, because because then I could go as low as I wanted. I could just be like Baseline. I didn't do anything but perfect straight man. That was it was like it was the straight It was the Abbott and Costello of it all with the with the two of you on camera.

Always it was the straight man and the funny man, but it worked so well because you both leaned in so hard to your role. Yeah, it's so fun to know that you're in a funny scene but not have the pressure of having to be funny. Oh god, it's gonna be funny. Because but when the two of you did that episode where you were in Nathan's hatchback and the tape got stuck and played that ridiculous song over and over again, like I need you to know that, the three of us watching that episode, we're like, we

want this to be a movie. Where is this movie? Like these two need to have their own ridiculous like slapstick adventure that'd lasts of full two hours, Like we need it as as audience members, we need it. You should just play firefighters or something. Do a firefighter comedy, just like dudes being dudes on a ladder. That will be fun. Idea. Yeah, love fine, one's afraid of heights

and one's not. That's the show perfect. But your partner in this episode is your brother, right, And I love, love love this conflict that you have with Lucas because it's so real. You have been giving marching orders by your dad just to shut up, right, and you tell Lucas don't touch it, don't touch the thing, don't touch it. And what does he do. He's got to go be a martyr with Wyodia hero. So Lucas well, Haley showed up.

Haley didn't help much either. She was the one that was sort of like needling the which is actually I thought so interesting that Haley, the girl who grew up with such you know, good good parenting and strong morals and values and was like, no, you gotta always do the right thing when push comes to chefs. She's the one who gets a little wafflely. And Nathan's the one who decides the kid who grows up without any of

that's being set. In fact, the opposite example is set for him, and he's the one who has to make that decision and does it with flying colors. Um. I thought that was really interesting kind of telling, I guess, very very human of us. Yeah, I mean it was. Yeah,

I thought that was interesting as well. Like Hayley's role in this whole in this whole thing, Um, I mean she's obviously it's it's kind of funny, like I got this feeling of like seeing Haley, you know, pregnant with like this thing that means more than all of it, and like talking about this stuff, I kind of felt for Haley like like are you not annoyed with these guys yet? Like we got way bigger fish to fry hair, right, But but yeah, I thought you did a great job.

And I really like like Haley and the relationship between Haley and Lucas and Nathan, you know, like I always thought that was such an interesting dynamic because like Haley and Lucas are so that's like so part Like it's like the DNA of the show. Like I remember that relationship so well from the pilot episode, you know, being so cool and so, but I don't know how often we went back to it, and it was cool to

see that in this episode. Like I'm glad I got an episode where I got to see that that dynamic between you guys, because it was really great. You know what's cool is like Nathan and Lucas are brothers, but they don't they didn't grow up as brothers. They don't know how to be siblings. But Haley grew up with Lucas as a sibling and so Haley and her relationship with Nathan gets to teach the boys how to be siblings with each other, Like you are absolutely their usher

into that relationship. Yeah, and it's cool that you could have that sibling conversation, Joy, you could have it with Lucas and then explain Lucas to Nathan because you see that the immediate reaction is conflict. It's like, damn motherfucker. Haley also gets to she gets to qualify things for them. I was taken him back. It was another thing I jotted down when you look at Nathan and say he's your best friend and your brother, and I was like,

oh my god, are they best friends? Like you know, it's just this wild moment where you you qualify, you know, in a in a scene that wasn't as well written as that one, you would have been doing exposition about like how far you two have come in your relationship. There was no time for that in this episode exactly.

But it was this really simple declarative statement, but it was a big deal because you put words to it, and we've seen it for a long time, but I don't know that we've heard anyone say that before, and it's striking and It is very cool that she gets to be you know, she's the connective tissue for these two and then the three of them really build what you were saying, James, that relationship. Yeah, this is the season for Haley of She's definitely like the connective tissue

in a lot of storylines. I feel like this entering into this season of like where I did a lot of bouncing around of making people explaining things and people understand each other and yeah, trying to keep everything like, yeah, she's literally being everyone's mom because none of us have parents. Yeah, exactly, which is fitting because you know she's about to be a mom, so exactly. But anyway, I loved Nathan's choice.

I thought it was really cool that he got up there and you know, made the made the right choice in spite of everything that was on the line. How often are are you three in scenes together in this show? Like I noticed that there's like some really good stuff with you guys at the end, which is there's just such an ease between you three like in the in

these characters. It was really cool to see that. It was like perfect representation of what the show stands for right there in that scene with you three um, but like, does that happen? I can't remember, Like, does that happen quite often? Or was that? Like did but it's petered out a little bit over the last season, But we've also only ebbs and flows. Yeah, yeah, but I did

love that. Very similarly in the triangle with Haley, Nathan and Lucas, the triangle of the female friendships between us is so special and whether you get, you know, moments of Brooke and Haley having time, Peyton and Haley having time, Brooke and Rachel or Peyton and Brooke, like, we have a lot of great female duos, but when the three of us are together, it does feel special and it's cool that you see that, James, like when when Haley comes in and we get the you know, dantante like,

but then it's yeah, but then it's the three of us, and it's it's that iconic scene. Like the thing that probably gets shared with me the most is Brooks warrior speech and and the three of us sitting in that bed, these young girls who've been through so much together and they're choosing to take what's happened to them and celebrate their strength. It is kind of this iconic moment and I do think there's something really special about when the

three of us get to be together. Yeah, absolutely there is. Yeah, is there anybody who didn't live in that apartment at some point? Like I'm so yeah, Like I didn't, was the only person in the apartment? God, that apartment set? That like apartment? Do we even still have that in season five? No? They go away? I don't know. Surely no, right, I forgot that we moved in together in that apartment zero recollection. Yeah, last week I was like, wait, what

is that going to happen? But super cute that brooke like repainted the whole bedroom. I didn't. I forgot that I didn't. I got a little tear. I was like, she painted it red like it was iconic and totally caught me off guard. It caught me off guard too, That's what's funny. It's such a poignant moment, and it is one that until I saw it in front of my face, I forgot we had done. Yeah, wait did they redo the bathroom in your apartment? Though? Because y'all

had some goofy tile in that apartment? The whole apartment set was problematic, you are? I was struck by how

not aspirational. The sets were you know what I mean, like like and I kind of like it, Like I'm kind of into it because I felt like when you know, when I see like Nathan and Haley's apartment or you know, your apartment, like some of these sets, I'm like this, but this you know, you watch like sitcoms and other shows and stuff, and everybody, no matter what job they have, is living in like a massive, like two thousand square foot like exposed brick loft right like the friend's apartment.

You're like perfectly decorated going on. Yeah, but like I feel like our sets were like they pretty closely reflected, at least in the beginning, like where people live, like where you know, like like what what a what a first apartment would actually look like, and what furniture would be in it? And yeah and like yeah, yeah, what

furniture would be in it? And like maybe you're you don't have time or money to like decorate right away or like paint the walls and stuff, or maybe you got some like you said, maybe you got some funky tiling from the last person that lived there or something, but like that that that part of it felt pretty real to me. Yeah, you know, not aesthetically pleasing, but you know, it's interesting that they let us do that. James.

There's like one episode where all of a sudden, there's just this like wall of bubbles that you've put in the apartment to surprise, and they just choked it. Like wasn't an aquarium. It was just a wall that like had bubbles floating up like like a like a feature wall. Yeah, this is only it was solely for the purpose of a transition sy Yeah, because there was somebody had brought it in to our apartment for a transition moment in a scene from a prom or what was it? I

got it? You when when you guys are supposed to go on your honeymoon to London and then the car

crash happens and you don't get to go. You go back to the apartment finally, and Nathan had this big surprise waiting for Haley, and he turned the whole apartment into London, except it's like giant artwork of red telephone booths and big weird red chairs and then there's a bubble wall next to the mural of the London Bridge and it only exists so Nathan can have a drowning flashback is right, so ridiculous, you guys, it is burned

into my brain. Oh that's hilarious. Whatever happened in that storyline? Wait a second, where did it go? Where did it go? You were having all of these like flashes, and you know, after the after the limo went off the bridge. Yeah, this sweet boy was so much PTSD and everyone's just like, you're a basketball star, You're fine, He's fine. Oh, it

just kind of it just didn't really go anywhere. I want to remember, James, your character had PTSD for basically a whole season, and it was, you know, attempted suicides multiple times. I mean, there was some really dark stuff

in there. It was gnarly. Do you ever have people come up and talk to you about that, because I have people come up to me and talk to me about sexual assault all the time based on the you know, crazy psychoderic stuff, and you don't think about that when you're filming it, but then when we start going to conventions and stuff like that. I don't know if you've ever had anyone kind of put those puzzle pieces together, not in like a specific way, with a specific thing.

I think that helped. I mean I've had, you know, I've had people tell me that the show got them through, um, you know, really tough time in their life and things like that. But I don't think I've ever had anybody say like, this thing that your character went through in

particular helped me get through this particular thing. Um. I'm not sure that I've had that, but but certainly, um, you know, have had people tell me that, you know, the show was was was there for them, you know, while they're like, yeah, stuck in a hospital for you know, months or something like that like that. To me, I feel like that's the thing that makes me the most happy is when you know, it's like I feel like we made something that was actually because I had that

for myself. Like there are shows that I will go to because I need to be comforted, you know, Fireflye, Like we've made something like that now, Firefly Lane. Yeah. So I just feel like it's really cool to to be a part of something that is that for someone. Yeah, he's too. It's one of the greatest series special honors about being a part of this show for sure. Now that Nathan seems to kind of be on the other side of that darkness and you guys are prepping for a kid as we you know, wrap up the high

school years. What was your mindset knowing that you were going to have to work with like a baby And I say it like it's disgusting. Oh that's a lot for like any actor, but especially a young actor who doesn't have a lot of experience with babies. You know, did you grow up babysitting? No? No, no, no, okay, I still don't have a lot of like experience with babies.

Like I'm still very uncomfortable holding a baby because I think you're gonna break it, you know, like it's I don't have like if there's it's so at the time, Yeah, I remember um being Yeah, I'm not not so much like scared of working. I like kids. I like babies and stuff, but I just don't, like I don't know how to be around them. And I'm also I'm really bad with kids as well. Like I'm so lucky that

like that's not true. You were so great with Jackson, Yeah, but Jackson's like different, you know, like Jackson was so extroverted and so chick and so funny and like he just wanted to play. But like I struggle with kids who are shy because I'm shy. So if like, if there's a kid who shy, I think that they can see like they I'm just like they don't like me, Like that kid kid knows I am a bad person.

I'm just gonna stay away. So I was afraid that I would be like, have some really awkward relationship with the kid that's supposed to say, you're just paranoid. You're gonna have a staring contest for five years, Yeah, looking at each other, just like what are you gonna do? Yep. And I did have to learn, you know, Like with Jackson, I feel like I was talking to him like he was a kid for a little bit, and you know, he was like, you know, he's talking to me like that.

Nobody's talking to me like that since I was three. Man. Yeah, kids are Kids are great at telling you that though they'll they'll let you know. Oh yeah, oh yeah he told me. He told me, oh dude, the funniest thing ever. I guess this is the next season story. But I picked him up one time and was like, what's up, man? He was like, oh your breath? Oh no, oh my god,

I'll go get him. Yeah. Kids are hard, hard I told Joy and Hillary this, but I don't James, I don't know if you remember, because I do recall Lisa and I both being pretty horrified. So we may have come to set saying this. But there was a day because you know, kids have different hours, they're not at work all the time that we are, and we were having one of those days. You know you said this earlier. The hair and makeup trailer is like the hub of the whole show. And Lisa and I were getting ready

to do a scene. And so I'd gone through makeup and I was in hair, and she'd gone through hair and she was in makeup. And Jackson comes in to get ready for the scene and he looks at Lisa

and he goes, what happened to you? And she goes what And he goes, you look weird, and she just said, oh, well, I don't have any makeup on yet, you know, we're getting ready, and he goes, yeah, you look better with makeup on, shaking his head, and walked down to the other end of the trailer and we were like, oh, the honesty of children, Oh God, so like, and the whole place just fell out, like I thought Tim was going to fall down left. It's like, what are you

gonna do? They just tell you what you think? What they think exactly. Yeah, it's it's and he was a perfect representation of that because he was like and he's such a good kid. He was he just had a heart of gold, and so no matter what he said, it was just it was funny. James, how old were you when you did your first like job? Like, how old were you on set when you were first starting? I was. I think the first time I was on set,

I was like six six years old. Yeah. I think you and I were like the only child actors on our show. Everybody else had started later in life. Yeah maybe, yeah, yeah yeah. So did that affect kind of like do you feel like that made you protective of him because you've been in that space before? Yeah. I think it made me look back at my childhood a little differently, you know, like I definitely felt like just drawn to him because I just feel it was impossible not to

be drawn to Jackson. Um. But um, but I did I do remember thinking like this kid's working a lot, you know. Yeah, and then I remember thinking like did I do that? Like did I work a lot when I was a kid? Like I don't know, it just kind of makes you, gives you a little bit of

a bird's eye view of the whole thing. And but I think for the most part, you know, like I really recognized in him, like why I fell in love with sets as a kid, and what I've always felt like the most home like home, the most on a set has um he like he engaged so much with everyone, Like he really like that set was a playground for him.

And even if he was working a lot, I always felt like he really was having a good time and there wasn't any place he would rather be um because he had so many friends there, you know, like and he really he was a type of kid who was really curious and everyone would give even though we were on a you know, we're on a TV set, like time is money, but there was never a time where like we've never had um like not enough time for Jackson,

you know what I mean, like script supervisor, production assistant director, Like if he wanted to talk to you, if he had a question, like you were going to spend time with him, and and and so I feel like, um, you know that, seeing that, I was like, oh, well, yeah, no, wonder I'm no wonder I'm still here because it's it's pretty cool to be on set when you're a kid. Under the right circumstances, right, you know, it can go very very wrong, very easy for it to go wrong.

But I feel like, YO, say space, Yeah, well, and you know what's cool. You're making me realize. I remember when in the later seasons we all started directing. I don't know if it was like I envisioned it as being like a water cooler conversation. We didn't have a water cooler, but you know, I remember all of us talking about how we'd been doing this job for so long, but then directing episodes, it reignites the whole thing and it makes everything new again. And I don't think I

had considered it until you just said it. I think Jackson showing up in season five was the first version of that. He made the whole set new again for everybody, and we were like, whoa, this is really cool. Yeah, seeing it through his eyes. It's special when you get that in a long running job, when you get things that make it feel brand new again years in, Like, that's really really special. Yes, with the directing part of it, James, like, when you watch an episode like this one, like four

eighteen back. Now that you've directed so much, what stands out to you, Like, what would you have done differently in a situation like this, Oh, like with this particular episode. Yeah, I don't know if I would have done anything differently. I think what really stood out to me was, you

know that our show had a specific style. You know, there were certain things and I don't want to say like formulaic, and it's not formulaic in a bad way, but by this time in the show, we had a formula right, and it's the familiarity that the audience relies on, so you can't stray too far from it on purpose. Yeah. Yeah, And there's like a rhythm and there's certain things that happened that that sort of there's certain things that happened

technically that signal what's about to happen for you. So like as we're getting into you know, the coda is a thing that has been around for a while, and I think I think our show did really well, but like there were certain things that happened like to get us into the coda. Like you know you're coming, you're getting close to the coda when you start to see like a couple of crane shots and stuff, and you know it's not just the end of a crane shot because they cut it for time. It's like, Okay, now

we're slowing things down a bit. Now we're going to sort of you know, you know, I guess we're going to sort of hypnotize you a little bit and like, whoa, you into like a sense of something as we go into you know, then we'll cue the music and then you're just like floating away with us as we cut

between characters. So stuff like that. Yeah, it was cool to see that because you know, I think that stuff was like pretty consistent throughout the entire life of the show, and so I recognized a lot of it in this episode. And David Jackson, I remember being a really good dude. I liked him a lot. I liked his energy, I liked the way he ran a set, and so you know, at the time, you know, I wasn't looking at David Jackson's I was thing that David Jackson's like visual choices

are directorial choices. I was just thinking about like my experience with him personally on a set. But it was cool to watch what he was doing as a director, you know this time around? Yeah, did you when you look for things to direct? Now? What it? What kind of projects excite you? I love stuff it doesn't take itself too seriously. Um. I love stuff that's a little

tongue in cheek, dramady you know. Um. I've always just like been really taken with the Adam McKay's and David o' russells of the world, where I think David old Russells is probably the best example because he can like that guy can tear you know, his movies can tear my heart out and make me laugh hysterically at the same time. And there's something about that seesaw that I really love and gravitate towards. So um, yeah, so cool. I'm so glad we got you to come on this show. Team. Yeah,

it's been a pleasure. Guys. Yeah. Is there anything you have coming up that you want to talk about before we spend our wheel and all that stuff? What besides, everyone is doing great, which we talked about in our last chat, But um, is there anything else you want to Um? Yeah, I gotta film coming out here. I don't know if it's coming out soon. It's called Red right hand Um, some producers from our show, Ian and National Films. Um, they directed that film. Um. Alex and

I are both in it. So that's that's one, and we are. I want to give too much away, but we're playing It's it's we get to do a departure from what we usually do. So UM, so yeah, I'm really excited about that. But other than that, I'm just like, we're just editing season two. Um, we'll be doing that for the next like seven months in this in this room.

Actually it's going to be here any minute. I love how collaborative you and your wife are, you know, And yeah, coming up in our industry, I didn't have industry parents. You didn't have industry parents, Like there was no example for how you're supposed to formulate a relationship that makes sense with the hours we work and with like the weirdness of our job and so finding someone you can collaborate with is vital. And I love that you guys

are doing all these projects together. She's cool, James. Yeah, Oh yeah, she's amazing. She's amazing. Thanks for saying that. I think it's definitely, I mean, it's the only way to survive in this industry too. I think like, if you're going to be in this industry and have a partner in this industry that has like the same job as you, like, I feel like it's probably pretty easy for it to get competitive, Like you got to go the other way. You gotta just like lift each other

up and help each other out and work together. It's you know, I feel like it's the only way I can't imagine doing any other way. You know, Well, it's really special, and it's like it is to Hillary's point, it's very inspiring because you know, especially for all of us when we talk about the things that we share in those nine years, like getting kind of yanked out of your life for ten months a year can be

really disruptive. And to see the way that you guys are literally building your life around being able to make sure you can be in places together is awesome. And you guys are making such cool so like it's fun. It's fun to root for you, you you know, as our friend who is happy, and also to root for the things that you two as partners are making. That's all really really cool. And you know, I'm definitely a lucky guy for surely. Yeah, And I want to say, you know,

on behalf of the three of us. I know, it was like, you know, cats in a bag trying to get all four of our schedules to line up to get you on this show. Like the fans kept being like, when's he coming, and we were like, we've literally been working on it for a year, Like we've literally been trying so hard. And the fact that you were able to kind of scissor out this time for us this

morning and make sure you could be here with absolutely yeah. No. I mean, you guys have always been there for for me and for us, and um, you know, I really appreciate that, and I'm really happy for all of you in the podcast, like it's such success and people love it and it's um, it's it's really cool too. You know, you're not just doing this, you know all we feel

the rest of us from the show. We feel it as well, you know, like we're you know, I feel the love from the show through your guys show, and you've really brought it back around in a way that I never knew was possible. And uh, that's that's really awesome. So thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. But baby, we got to spin a wheel. That's how you become an official drama queen. We have to spin a wheel together. We spin a wheel most likely too, like a yearbook

most likely too. So this week are superlative. You have to pick one of our actor friends but also a character. So this is perfect for today's conversation. Who's most likely to babysit your kids? Who's the most likely to babysit your kids? Uh? You know who has babysat my kids? Antoine. When George was a baby, she would not sleep. She

just absolutely would not sleep. And Antoine and I were doing a movie together and I watched him pick her up, put her in one arm, like hold her in this real weird way, and she was out in like two minutes. And I was just like, what, Yeah, he has skills literally literally Well knowing that, I feel like that'd be

a pretty safe choice. Um, but you know, I think I'm gonna go with Barbara Yea if she could give my kid like an ounce of the juju that her kids have, and I feel like, yeah, the kid would be fine, you know, like her what she's done with her family and their their whole crew. Man, that's so cool. Um, that awesome. I mean, Barbara is just um, she's are out of me, so she'll cry if she hears you, James.

She loves you so much. She's amazing. What character Hayley, I'd say she's got yeah, I guess so yeah or Karen or Karen Yeah yeah, Karen would be great like not Rachel, not Rael, not Rachel Yeah, Dan Scott sweet. All right, Well, next week we have episode four nineteen, and we are barreling towards graduation. We're almost out of the high school years. James, I'm so glad that you could come and be a part of high school with us.

Thanks for having me, really appreciate it. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens oth or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com. See you next time. We all about that high school draw. I'm a girl drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl Cheering for the Right teen Drama Queens dreels, My girl

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