Number 23 • EP418 Part 1 with James Lafferty

that pleasure. A gentleman. Here he is. We're talking about you, James. What's going on to see you do? See you two? You look great. We were just making the point that you're the only boy in the history of the show that kissed all three of us. Really, m hmm, interesting because Lucas never kissed Hayley. Is there like empirical evidence to back this up? We have a tally showing. Yeah, listen, we've got a fan army. We've watched oh so so

many episodes. That's where it is. Yeah, kudos kudos to t y'all as well for for you know, getting this far into the whole show and everything. Like, I was watching the episode last night, and it's not lost on me how many episodes it takes just to get here. Yeah, let alone ahead of you. Well, wait, how many times have you seen episodes since you rapped? I mean, I can't imagine you sat there and watched soap net. You know, I did James at home with a mac and cheese

watching episode one trio damn it, you got me. Yeah, no, I I think the last time I watched a full episode was probably around the time we were doing the crowd funding campaign. Um, and he has helped us out, came and watched episodes with us. Um, you know that was and that was a trip. I mean even back then.

I mean that was twenty eighteen, I think, or maybe even twenty seventeen, So I was that was a long time ago now, um, And so you know, watching it last night's even further away, further in the rearview, no recollection of shooting those scenes. I think that was the standout. I mean, there was there was a couple of scenes that I definitely remembered, but for the most part, um, yeah, for the most part, I was like, really, I'm glad that the episode had a recap at the beginning, because

I really had no idea what was going. Yeah, the recaps are helpful. Okay, Wait, I have a question, because we talk about this a lot on those show, that there are certain episodes where, similarly to what you just said, we're all going we did what I don't remember that, no idea, And then there's these scenes that you're you're not only going, oh, I remember filming that, but it's like you get you get like a it's like a muscle memory, you know that film like in your core.

Were there were there scenes from four eighteen that you felt that way about or were you just surprised by the whole thing? Yeah, yeah, there was one. It was the well, I guess it was like the last scene for Nathan and Haley where I think it kicked didn't kick off Dakota, where you know, Nathan is giving a little press conference at high school, um and uh, and that scene I remember, well, yeah, everything leading up to it like not a lot of Yeah, don't don't really

remember shooting that stuff. But for whatever reason, I remember that scene, probably because it took some some preparation. It was like a little bit of a monologue, a little bit of a monologue it was. I mean, I don't know. I just remember being like going into that day feeling a little bit and it's rare that this happened, feeling a little bit of what Nathan must have been feeling, being like, oh man, I really don't want this room to be over for him, you know, like he's he's

going to Duke. At that time, I was watching a lot of college basketball. I love to Duke. It was like so cool that Nathan was going to Duke or that prospect was there, and you know, I remember being like really impressed with with what he was doing and owning up to it. It was cool to see sort of like shades of the adult that he might become. But at the same time, I remember being like, oh, I hope he can. I hope he can get this

opportunity back, you know. Um So so yeah, that one's that one stood out is something that I definitely remembered. I have no recollection of standing at your side shooting that scene none whatsoever. Do you think you were just standing there, like writing a song in your head or something, Robert, Honestly,

probably I just drifted off. It's one of the funniest things about about doing this show is watching back and being like so surprised at the things that I remember and the things that I don't, things that you think would be so monumental and I have no recollection, And then others that I'm like, what that scene is such a nothing scene? Why do I still smell the sheets in the wall paper? You know? Like? What the heck? Yeah? Well,

wide and out for a little bit. Like what do you remember, James, of you know, the nine years you spent on the show. What are some of the first episodes that float back for you? I think it was probably around this season. Seasons one through three, for whatever reason, are really a blur for me. I don't know why. Because you were a child, because the frontal lobe was still forming, Yeah, you're all. I was still Yeah, I was still learning to catch catch the experiences and turn

them into memories. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's what it was. I mean I think around season four, Um, you know, I remember the final episode of season four really well, the state championship game and all that. Um that was that was really really fun and kind of a monumental experience in my life. To be able to play in uh, and see States Gym, and you know everyone was out there. We all like traveled to go m you know, stay out there for a couple of days, and it was

just a really really awesome experience. Um. And then after that, you know, ironically, I guess once like the characters made the jump into adulthood, maybe I was doing the same, and I just remember a lot more from those years. Yeah. I remember you started like coming out more in town during those years. Like you either you turned twenty one or you had a really good fake idea at that point. But like all of a sudden, like life was imitating art. We were all moving as a pack in town in

a yeah, you know, in a different way. Yeah. Yeah, I think I came out of my shell a little bit as as time went on and just got a little bit more comfortable in my own skin. You know. It definitely helped to not have to That was a thing about going out in Wilmington is like I couldn't really roll around with a fake ide because it was a small town. We were on hundred hills, so that was kind of pointless. So I had to like pick

my spots. From like eighteen to twenty one, I had like, there's like a few places that would let me in the back door. Yes, a small town, it's hard to get away with stuff. Yeah yeah. But then but then once I twenty one, I could go wherever wherever you guys went so at Yeah, I wonder too, like that that sort of evolution that you were experiencing, going from being a literal teenager to an adult as we all were doing that on the show, Like, I mean we

were playing teams, but you literally started as a team. Um. I wonder about it because talking about how the first couple of seasons are a blur, We've spoken a lot, and I always wonder. I'm like, do they know like when we when we shower you or any of the other guys with the compliments on this show. I'm like, does everyone just tweet our quotes at them? Like do

they have any idea? So just in case they don't. Um, We've talked so much about watching Nathan's evolution, and especially like you you you in this season begin having this like deeper sort of stoic like poignance to your perform months And I wonder do you think it was because

you said it? Do you think it was because Nathan is finding himself in a way where we're starting to foreshadow the man that he grows into, or or were the storylines just that poignant for you, you know, thinking about this kid settling down and getting ready to be a dad, Like was it a little life imitating art or was it really just that you were getting so much good stuff off the page that it made it extra special for you as an actor? Yeah? Yeah, probably

the ladder there, I think. Um, I think around this season, if I remember correctly, you know, there was like things for getting pretty real U for Nathan you know, Um, I mean you know there were the there were the storylines where you know, I'm about to get kneecapped by Rick Fox. You know, did you love that? James, Dude, I was so stoked about that. But you know, and

that stuff was that stuff was great in itself, you know. Um, but I really I really gravitated towards I think being able to have those moments like at the end of episode four eighteen where you know, there's a tough decision to make, um and and you actually see Nathan um making a good decision. Um. And you know, over time he's making more and more good decisions. Um. And so you know, yeah, I took that seriously and I thought it was great, and I think in a way I

was I was you know, learning from it as well. Um, you know, those those lessons and things. But it just felt really good to be able to to to play that character, um that made that evolution and see it come to fruition in those ways. You know, it's like, yeah, sure you want to see him go to duke. But you know, even at twenty one, I understood that the bigger um, the bigger thing here, the more important thing here,

was that he was doing the right thing. Um. And so you know that that's sunk in that that resonated with me. There's something we've We've gotten this question and all of us have answered it, and a lot of our guests have answered it, but we haven't had a chance to talk with you. Can you just tell us a little bit about how you got started on this show, like what your audition process was like, and how this whole job came about for you. Yeah? How much time

do we have? Yeah? Yeah, all any time in a world. Yeah yeah. So I was like seventeen, I had done I've done a few projects, I've done a couple of pilots and things. You know, I was a senior in high school and I wasn't I wasn't too stoked on continuing acting. I've been doing it since I was like six seven years old, and I really loved it. But you know, it's tough. There's a lot of rejection, and I wasn't an adult yet. I didn't really know how

to deal with that rejection. I was just sort of tired of it by the time I was seventeen, and so yeah, then one day this script came like through the pipeline or whatever. It was mailed to me by ups or so however it happened. Back used to get hard coffees back when it was called Ravens. Oh my God,

call Ravens. I remember reading it just being like, all right, I gotta like give this one a shot, this one's special, and and just like you know, there was I was such a I just love basketball so much and I have a brother, and um, I loved that I grew up into small town. There was so much about it that resonated. So I went and read for lucas Um. I didn't get lucas Um, and then I went and read for Nathan and I went through a series of auditions for Nathan UM. At a certain point in the

audition process, Um it got. It got through to me through like bat channels that like I wasn't I was like I was too nice, I was I was not hard enough like to be this guy. Um, But they liked me. By the way, this is like me and my mom, Like my mom's with me in Los Angeles as I'm like auditioning for this thing, and I think it was actually my mom was like, look, if you want this, you gotta go to your acting coach. You gotta take a session and like take this seriously if

you're gonna do it, like do it right. So I went to my coach and we worked it the night before the test. Um I think I I think I tested like five times. Jesus WHOA really yeah. Yeah. It was like five different appointments over a few days. It was like did you have chemistry tests with that or was it just yours? It was just like me and UM and one other actor, like going into a room on the Warner Brothers lot and like just reading for the same five people, like over and over again over

the course of like two days. Did they give you notes every time. It was like go home and try it, like, work on it this way, and then come back and do it differently. I think, so five times, how does that work? You know what they were doing the toll test. They were doing the test to see winch kid was going to flake first? You didn't flake? Is that why they do that? Is? I mean, think about our job though, you got to do the same thing over and over again.

There's a level of endurance that you have to have in television that you don't have to have in film, like pushing someone to their breaking point. You want it to, Yeah, you wanted it. I wonder if there was anything going on with those executives in the room who were like, we got to hire someone who's a really convincing asshole. Let's make sure in real life he's not a dick, because if he is, it's going to be a nightmare.

Do you know? Like I feel like there's a little bit of that too, Like we're actively asking people to come in here and be awful, you know, Season one, episode one, Nathan Scott, So maybe we should just keep bringing them in here and see if they're actually nice. They haze you, bro, I feel like all those reasons are valid. Like, now that you've mentioned all those reasons, I'm like, it's probably a good thing they brought me

in five times to make sure I could do the job. Yeah. Yeah, so, but I think the last step to the process was was Brian Robbins having me and this other actor go to his house and play play him one on one in his backyard. Wait. So the guy that you were up AGAs, Yeah, yeah, who was really awesome, really really

awesome by the way. His name is Riley, and he's just like he's older than me, and he was I think he was like I don't know, he must spend like in his early twenties at the time, but he was just like you couldn't ask for a better actor to be testing against when you're like a teenager, do you know what I mean. Like it was more of like us to just sort of like it didn't feel

like we were going after the same project. It just sort of felt like we were both there just like in it sort of together, which I thought was really cool. And and he could ball for sure, and I was not playing very hard and Brian Robbins, like I think he scored a couple of points on me, and he pulled me aside and he was like, if you want

this job, you're gonna have to play. I was like okay, and so I started playing and it went, it went, It went better for me after and then uh and then yeah, and then it was just like go home and wait to find out if he got the job. Yeah. The rest is history. So, so did you have any idea at that point? You know, you've got to go work it to kind of get in the headspace, you know, you've got a ball hard. Did you have any idea past who Nathan was in the pilot? Did they give

you any inkling of who he would become? That he that he would have this sort of, um, you know, generational fork in the road and he could either become his dad or go the opposite way. Did you know he was gonna get married in high school? Like, did they tell you anything or was it all a surprise once the show got picked up. I didn't really Yeah, it was it was all kind of a surprise, to

be honest. I didn't think about it that much, Like, I don't remember being that concerned with it, um because I was like just kind of I was having so much fun playing this sohole of a kid. I was like, he makes a great villain. So if I got to be a villain, you know, I was kind of fine with it. I wasn't look, I wasn't thinking things through quite as much back then. Again, I was so young.

I was just kind of stoked to be there. But I remember getting like, you know, some assurances here and there that like, you know, this is not this is not who this character is. Like this character isn't going to like end up dead in a ditch somewhere as he gets his come up, and you know this is there's like an evolution for this character, and just thinking

like cool, right, wow right. I mean when we when we went out to shoot the pilot, you were still in school, and yeah, you were the only one of us that was still in school, and so I remember talking about like what are you going to do for prom? What are you going to do for graduation? Because it was all like it hadn't happened for you yet, and the rest of us were twenty twenty one looking at it in the rear view mirror, and so it was great to have your energy there because you were still

pumped about that stuff. Yeah, did you just feel like you never left high school for I mean fifteen years? Yeah, yeah, no, I mean I called, I think, yeah, I called and asked my prom date out from Wilmington because I was like, I missed that time to like ask your prom date out, and I was like I couldna make some phone calls, manum. But but yeah, it was it was, I guess it was. Yeah,

it was strange. But the thing about like the show was we shot on a college campus and like everyone was a little bit older, even like you know, background were a little bit older. Like we weren't really surrounded by high school kids, so you know, and then when we were like shooting on a high school set and the class room scenes tripped me out a little bit. Like I didn't like the classroom scenes because I I

didn't want to be in class period. But the rest of it was separated enough from reality that I didn't really feel like I was I was stuck in high school for too long. Yeah. Do you remember the day when we got the red pages that Nathan and Haley were getting married. I do remember that. I do because I remember I remember the red pages and being like,

what the hell is going on? I've never seen red pages. Well, our trailers were attached, so because we were in so many scenes together obviously that whatever you know, whenever you for those of you listening, they tend tend to put actors in They're called a double banger, and it's one side, one side as one actor, in the other side as the other actor, and they will put you in with

people that you usually work with a lot. So James and I had shared a double banger, and um yeah, I remember like busting out of my trailer door and you happen to be walking out to the time. I just remember being like, what did you say? This is crazy crazy? Yeah, very and did you know what was coming? No? No, I had no idea. I had no idea what was coming.

Um again, I remember having like a delayed reaction. I think I remember being like, because you know, from I feel like the makeup trailer is like the nerve center of the set, right, and so it's like headquarters. Like I process, especially at the time, I really process things as they happen. I sort of like learned to react to things based on how other people reacted to them, and so I remember going into the makeup trailer and being like oh, this is a big deal. I guess,

like people are really freaking out word. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. I guess that's why they're red pants. Also, like from up from I'm a boy's point of view. You know, you've got this narrative of like high school romance, and for the girls it's very romanticized. It's like Nathan sweeps her off her feet and says all the right things and all of that. Like, as a boy, you get a storyline where your teenage boy character now has to be married in high school. Like, what's your take on that?

Did you know any married people in high school? I don't. No, No, I didn't, But I did grow up in a small town, and to me, it wasn't like I don't yeah, to me, it wouldn't have been that far removed, like would have been that crazy of a thing to do, because new plenty of people that got married, like the year after high school was out, you know, yeah, I mean it was still pretty wild. I think at the time, what our characters were, characters like sophomores or juniors or something.

Juniors juniors, right, yeah, I mean that was like that was definitely, you know, extraordinary. You guys, that's three years out from where my son is like if we three oh wow, yeah yeah, and from a modern perspective, yeah, I mean the further and further away we get from it. I like, I don't even know if that story would track today, you know, like I don't even know how many people it was. It was pretty pretty outrageous when it happened back then. But I think now just be

like what you know? Um? But but yeah, I mean I was I just thought it was an exciting step because I don't think I necessarily like knew that it was going to go well, you know, like I certainly didn't know that it was going to be you know, we would those characters would be married throughout the duration of the show. Um, and so like to I feel like, to me, it was just kind of like, okay, well

let's see where see where this goes? Like I don't know if this is a caution, Mary Taylor, you know what struck me watching you guys play those scenes in this episode today, and it is interesting, like we have such good hindsight now, right you look back and you go, well, these are the things I weren't thinking about, and these are the questions I'd ask today and oh my god, we were all a bunch of idiots. How did we survive?

But I was watching you too do those scenes talking about the point shaving in your future and getting ready for a kid and all the things, and I think one of the things I realized as an adult who's had to you know, do the work. We talk so much about therapy on this show as adults who had to like go and do the work and learn things and to learn to communicate really well, especially you know, if you were raised in an environment where that wasn't

modeled for you. One of the things I love watching Nathan and Haley do is communicate so well what you guys modeled in terms of the way that you would share and be vulnerable and learn that there was safety and that vulnerability with your partner. I was like, God, they are better at this than a lot of people are. Age. Yeah, and it's so cool, Like you guys got to go on this journey. And I think it's that it's seeing that kind of communication and that love between two people.

That's probably why all the fans are so die hard because it is inspiring. Like what's crazy about that, though, is that it's so easy to do on camera. Well, especially oh yeah, you know an actor like you, James, or it's somebody that you know, you feel really comfortable with, who's honest and good and like you know you can

connect with. And but it's it's so weird how it's so easy to do that on camera and then in real life when the stakes are actually high and real and your emotions for real, your heart for real is on the line, does all the walls go up, everything shuts down? And I'm like, oh, I don't know how to do that. Never practice that before in my whole life. Yeah, suddenly you're like, words are words sound for talking? They're just gone. It does really help when you have someone

else writing the right words for you. Yeah, wouldn't it be fun every time you have an argument with your partner, you just like, can we call in our writers room room? To that end, though, James, we've been doing this show and we've said over and over again that this is our therapy, Like doing this podcast and looking back at this chunk of time and our life has been our therapy. But you created your own content, which feels kind of therapeutic.

As an outside observer the show that you and Stephen created, like tell our listeners about that, but also, I mean I would love to know if it's been cathartic to kind of poke fun and analyze what our experience was through a creative process. Yeah, well no, thank you for bringing that up, and thank you for the question. I mean, it's like the show is called everyone is Doing Great. So I love that show. I really g I love it. It's so good. Thank you, Joy. Yeah, it's it's been

it's been a really fun road. UM. And you know, it's a it's an independent television show. So we pull it together with our little filmmaker family and you know, our our friends and loved ones are in it, and you know, you know, hoping to make it happen. UM. And we did the same thing the second season. But

it's basically about UM. Three actors that were on like a Vampire Diaries type show which was like, you know, a mega success and UM, and then they come off the show and you know, it's it's it's like a late coming of age. It's like they were in this period of arrested development while they were on this show. They weren't really forced to they were really facing the

real world. And then they come out of the show and they're in their thirties and their you know, life has not really turned out the way that they thought it was going to. Um. And it's about them sort of dealing with those things in very very different ways, but always being pulled back together um by this like shared history, Like they're the only ones that know the experience that they went through on that show, and so those roots will always be there and will always be

like pulling them back together. UM. And UM. It's it's really raw and and you know, supposed to be funny, supposed to make you laugh and feel good, um, at the same time, it's like very dry and awkward. Um. And it's just meant to just poke fun at all those little moments in life that we might feel horrifying at the time. Um. But you know when you look back at it, you know you might it might be

a really funny story eventually, right. I mean it is so funny for real life, Like what was when you left One Tree Hill and you're like, that's it, I'm done starting this new chapter, but I gotta make fun of this in my new show, Like what was your what was your punchline? What was the thing you had to hit. Um there was I think it was, Um,

I think it was. I think it was mostly like the for my character, it was the I guess, like an expectation that like life's just gonna work out and that you know, you can wait for good things to come to you. Um, that was something that I sort of that was a mindset that I had for a while coming out of the show. Was just like, I mean, it worked out for nine years, why isn't it. Yeah, Like, what's a big deal? What's everybody so worried about? Um?

You know five years later you're like, Okay, I am bored. Like I'm bored. We got to get something going in. That's what you do so great on Everyone is Doing Great, Which which I loved is that you took you take an experience. It's so singular. There's a very few people who have the experience that we all had growing up as teenagers in early twenties on a TV show that lasted for so long and pacted our young life in that way. But you made it relatable. So you're taking

the same experience. That seems so kind of bizarre that almost nobody has had this experience, But when you watch the show, you're still getting moments of lessons like what you're talking about in a really fun way where everybody, no matter what career you're in, can relate to the idea of like, oh, yeah, you just have to like, oh, it worked out here, so I guess I just wait and then you're like I'm still waiting. Oh wait, I'm still waiting. I got to take a bole by the

horns and get out there. No thanks. That's That's exactly what we wanted people to We want people to be able to grab onto it, and we wanted it to have you know, we wanted to be relatable. We didn't

want it to be entourage. We wanted it to just be a story about like people, which is you know whatever, yeah we have because everybody's been asked to do things that are embarrassing and I mean, oh my god, that scene where Steven has to do that audition used to like make out on the floor for an audition, like, please tell me that was a real did that really happen? Well?

And those were the other things that inspired us to do it, you know, like there was like a broad sort of like meta stuff that was like, oh, this

is like the emotional reason for doing this. But then there was just like the years and years of stories that we had from this industry and situations that we found ourselves in, and that was one of them that actually, like that didn't happen that way to Stephen, but he had an experience that was similar in an audition and it was just like the greatest story that we ever had, And we're like, how is this not on camera somewhere?

How was somebody not already done this? Like we kind of I feel like the show wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for him having that experience. Oh are you so scared of our old audition tapes coming to light one day? Because I think about auditions like that where we would have to pretend there was a monster, or we would have oh yeah, or pretend you had a gun,

oh god, like roll around like a Charlie's Angel. So you remember the horror film they did that all took place on the ski lift and you had to sit in a chair in the audition and like pretend that wolves were trying to bite your feet. Because Daniela and I were in that audition together, It's just like I feel like COLLETTI auditions for that one too, but like that sense of absurdity sometimes going to bite us in

the ass. You guys, it's going to happen. Well, I hope it happens to all of us at once, so that at least it's like we can all laugh about it. That would be so how committed we are. I think that's why the show and what you guys have done with it, it it gives me that feeling of like like I don't know how to verbalize that, but when you just go oh god, and it feels funny but also borrowed, it's just so intense, yes, exactly where you're like, what

is happening to me? Because it is there's so much about what we do that is ridiculous and that's universal. And a friend of mine is a writer and she wrote a really specific TV show and she said the best advice she ever got from her mentor is that the unique is universal. You guys have taken this very unique situation that very few people understand, and like the nine years we all spent together, and then you've put this comedic lens on it, and it does I don't

know why. It just feels so universal. Everybody I know who's watched the show, it's like, oh man, that one got me or did you see that episode, Like, oh that stressed me out, Like it's just it's so funny. So that's awesome. That's I mean, that's exactly where we were going for um I think, I don't know. I mean, you you will have creative ventures sometimes, like you're just you're inspired to go into something and you don't always know exactly what it is, but you just know that

you're like you're just compelled to do it. And I guess because it's like trying, something's trying to come out of you. And by the time we got to the end of that first season, we had watched the episodes over and over and over again. You know, it was always we were always really concerned by the fact that it was industry adjacent or whatever, and we just we

didn't want it to feel too inside baseball. Yeah. I remember after when the show is about to come out, being like I guess, just realizing like, Okay, we just made a show about life, Like we just made a show about starting over at the end of the day, and hopefully people will see that. So um so I'm really yeah, thank you guys. How many of those did you direct? Are you are you guys taking turns directing that?

Or are you on deck the whole time? The first season it was Steven and I UM I directed most of the episodes and then Stephen directed one, and then this season we really handed the like Stevens directing UM, one of our producers, Michelle Lange, is directing, and other producer Johnny Durango is directing. Took my hands off the wheel there, because you know, acting and directing at the same time is always a challenge, but with this we do a lot of it. It's it's kind of improv based.

We we do the show based on like really detailed outlines, so we have a script, but it's not really script format UM and I think that we try to just encourage actors to like it's like you're reading the page of a novel and you're like, Okay, here's all the

information that I'm getting across. But really it's like, I gotta see the story in my head, and I gotta I gotta tell the story the way that I would so, oh my god, James, that's like the perfect hybrid of Laguna Beach in One Tree Hill Kids outlines and be like, go, you know, yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, Stephen, you know, we we had that discussion while um, you know, we were sort of like coming up with the format and this is not a totally original format, you know,

like there are other filmmakers that do this and do it really really well. Um, and we were inspired by them. But but you know, I remember Stephen saying, you know early on, like this is like not far off from what Moving to Beach was, you know, like and uh so yeah. And the actually our our director of photograph for the second season, Gareth Cox. He's a director of photography for this show called CSA Key on MTV with

My husband is obsessed obsessed. Oh I love it. Yeah, that's the one, right, It's about its occasially lauda Beach in the Four Keys. Dude. Yeah. J d M is a big fan of CRS. I love how much he

loves trashy reality. God, I love it so much. And you believe he's never watched ours, um, James, speaking of funny storylines, obviously, we make a lot of fun of ourselves on this podcast, and your character has been through some wild adventures, whether you're doing shit with Chris Keller, or you're getting beat up by Rick Fox, like well

the Russian Mafia. Yeah, Like what were the storylines for you that you look back on now as a grown up and you're just like, oh god, Yeah, I mean is there anything you ever went in and you were like really really like his anyway we can? Yeah, I mean there was a couple, um, you know, even even some of the wilder stuff we did, you know, like the Rick Fox of it all, or like you know, being you know, held hostage by serbian gangsters. Like there was always something fun to find in there, and and

honestly it always tested me the most. Like I found it much easier to you know, you know, play um, you know, an emotional scene with you Joy than I did, you know, having to get emotional and scenes like that because I'd never done like an action movie. I'd never done a horror movie or anything like that. Like I'd never conjured up those emotions from a situation that you know is absurd on set, right. Yeah, you gotta like

your challenge is to really make that real. Like it's it's not hard to make something real with you, Joy, but it's hard to make something real, you know, with with other situations, and so I always felt like going into those I was nervous, but at the same time it was like, all right, how are we gonna how are we gonna do this? Like how we like we got to make the audience believe this and so yeah,

well and for our friends at home. One of the things when you reference why some of that stuff can be hard, you know, to your point, if you guys are shooting a scene as Nathan and Haley, you're in close quarters, you're looking at each other, you get to react to what she's doing. She gets to react to

what you're doing. One of the things people don't know about, you know, the Rick Fox storyline, for example, is they'll do the crash, but they only do the crash in the wide shots because there's one vehicle, and so you'll be on camera and you're close up, and they'll be like someone's running by with a tennis ball on a c stand for your eyeline, and then they go and boom, and you're supposed to react like you're watching your wife get hit by a car, but it's there's nothing happening,

and it's so insane. So the challenge to create realism you know how big it's wild? Yeah, seriously, Yeah, that's that's that's the biggest challenge I feel like. And then you know, like like to use that as an example, you have the crash which you're supposed to react to, um, and then they go around and they cover every single

actor who's there reacting to it. And then two hours later, you're still reacting to the crash that happened, you know, earlier in the day or whatever it could be, six hours later and you're like, I'm still supposed to be up or you have no idea what the crash is going to look like. They just sort of give you an idea of it. But then you see the stunt that they do later and you're like, I would have

had a way bigger reaction, you know. Smaller reaction, yeah, always great when they shoot the action lasts, so they're like, Okay, react to the thing that's going to happen, and you're like, but I haven't seen it yet. He just had to make it up, James. We solicited for questions for this episode, and we solicit for questions for all of our guests. UM, We've never had an avalanche like this before. So we're going to do some rapid fire fan questions. Well boys

should idea. Yeah, let's feel like you just blow through them. But I want to start I peruse these. I have a question that I need to ask. Um. Okay, listen, you always had strong little brother energy for me because I met you as like a child. But Marissa would love to know about your thoughts on your hair in season four because when you showed up with long hair, that was the first time I was like, oh my god, James is like hot, James is like dangerous, excellent hair,

dangerous lafferty. I have a note here, hair question mark. Well, no, no question mark, no question mark, hair exclamation point. Yeah, loved it. Hey, is that what we're calling this episode? Hair exclamation boy? Yeah? It was like suddenly, I don't know what that was, you know what, you know what I think it was. It was I think they were growing my hair. I was growing my hair out in

anticipation for season five. Yeah, when they were going to flash back and forth between when Um, I had like, what was it they needed to show, you know, they needed to show that there was like a difference in the timelines and so oh and I was like, I had really long hair because I had fallen. You know, I was like in a wheelchair and I was not taking care of myself, and so yeah, they decided that it was going to be easier. Oh god, they didn't want to wig me because the wig would look fake.

So they needed me to grow my hair out long enough so that they could attach extensions to it. Um. And then that way they could go back and forth between haftensions. Yeah, I had extensions, and then they and then they then they cut my hair, my actual head hair into tiny, tiny little pieces um, and they put in a little tray with some glue on it, and then they took a paintbrush and then they paint did the glue hair on my face. That's how I had that big beard. It was awesome. That's that's so I

was like there like three three hours early every day. Wow, they have the extensions and then get that glue on the face and then why didn't you just grow? Oh? Because they had to go back and forth, so they couldn't. Yeah, and I also couldn't grow a beard. Oh you couldn't. I mean I could maybe grow like it wouldn't have been a fun beard to TV, for sure, that's so funny. It was a hit. Okay, if you could have chosen to direct the pilot or the finale, which one the pilot?

I guess? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think the pilot because um yeah, I don't know. Okay, it's a rapid fire. You don't have to explain yourself. Yeah yeah, okay, Oh sorry knocking them out. Were there any storylines that the writers pitched to you for Nathan that then didn't wind up happening but you wished you'd gotten to film? No, I don't think so. There was talk of Nathan like making it to the NBA, but I don't think the NBA would really, Um, let us do what we needed

to do to make that storyline happen. That would have been cool, but but what it didn't happen, so so I guess maybe that maybe that can see. Yeah, did you keep anything from set? I kept some. I kept the signature sneakers that Nathan had in season at the beginning of season five when he was like when it was all good, he got his contract and his shoe deal and stuff, So I yeah, I kept what other character besides Nathan? Would you want to play Whitey? Oh?

I was watching the episode last night. I was like, God, I love this guy like I love Barry and I love Whitey. Did you ever go drinking with Whitey? I did? Yeah, Yeah, a couple of times. We didn't run in the same circles, but I definitely, I definitely saw him out. Yeah. Sure, Oh that's so fun. Okay, that's a perfect segue into Will's question. Whitey was an important coach and figure in Nathan's life. Who has been a similar coach or figure

in your life? Oh? Good question. Yeah, I guess. Uh, you know, my acting coach Andrew mcgarrian was a big, you know influence on me and especially in as a young person in this industry. Just um taught me a lot of m foundational stuff about you know, acting, but also about how to be a professional. So yeah, hmm, yeah, that's awesome. Well he nailed that. Yeah. I mean, for sure, James, everyone everyone in our industry working at the age that we were working at stop in one way or another.

And you are one of the few unicorns that never do you never? No, that's not true. I mean every I was young, you know, like I was not. I was certainly certainly not perfect. But um, but I had. I definitely had. You know, you always had a good head on your shoulders. Yeah, you know, good family. I've been really, really fortunate in life, so I think that that helped, and you know, people like Andrew helped, and you know, there was good influences on the show as well.

Like you know, um, I'll never forget Kriig Shefferd telling me to save my money. But that all stuck with me, It really did. He had a great explanation for it. And he didn't tell me in like a condescending way or in a way that you know, made me feel like I didn't know anything. He was. He was genuinely trying to help me. Um, And at the time you probably thought, like, this kid's never gonna hear a word I'm saying. But I heard him like loud and clear.

So getting that advice from Craig from this perspective that you're in today, we have a last kind of maybe a perfect last fan question is what advice would you give Nathan today about life? Oh? Man, I feel like I should be getting advice from Nathan, not giving it to him, or give advice to a young version of yourself even right right, It's like Yeah, anything I could

say to Nathan. I feel like he already kind of knew, but I feel like I would say or maybe remind him, or remind anyone that, like anything, anything worth doing is going to probably be pretty hard, and it's going to take a lot of time and dedication, but you can definitely do it um and just try to just just try not to lose yourself along the way, you know, just no matter how hard it gets, and no matter how you know, I guess how much it feels like

you're not going to get there sometimes, just try to be kind to yourself and be kind to others and and and you'll you'll get there. Like it'll happen, and it might happen in a way that you don't expect, but it's going to happen. Well, James, it's like the perfect advicement for this episode. Hey, listen, we're so excited that we have you because everyone's been asked few for years now. Yes, we just watched for eighteen. Would you stay and do a recap episode off eighteen with us? Oh?

Absolutely perfect, perfect, Let's rock it out, all right, kids, We'll see you next week with four eighteen. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens oth or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com. See you next time. We all about that high school drama. Girl Drama, Girl, all about them high school queens Forever.

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