Lucas’ Tattoo • EP109

miss you guys. Listen. This really is the best part of my week because I get to like blow my family off and say, oh, sorry, we have two hours. Um tonight we got to hang watching episode nine with Arms Outstretched, which the air date was November eighteenth, two thousand three. Uh. This is after fighting with his father and Haley. Nathan succumbs to the pressure and he takes amphetamines.

Don't don't go to help him play basketball. So in previous episodes leading up, we've had casual gun play, We've had like suicidal tendencies. What else have we had? We touched on pills a little with broken the last one. Yeah, yuck? Is this what kids were doing in two thousand three? I just can't even remember. Also, as you pointed out, well, while we watched the episode, why was he taking them for like four days leading up to the game. Why not just the game? It was it was successive. Yeah,

so lots to discuss. First and foremost, Brooks juicy suit at the top of stripes and I had stripes on my backpack. Brooks just all sorts of stripey, it's a roadmap. Yeah, I was. I was a little confused in this episode with Luke he because he seemed like two different people, Like like we were getting a lot of um, a lot of new a new side of like bad Lucas.

I guess what did you guys think? Yeah, because you know, we were talking about what a sort of revelation it was to be watching now and realize that he's like fully playing these two girls, these best friends and scripted to do that. Like someone thought that was a good idea.

Someone was like, Oh, this is perfectly okay for a young boy to like say this to this girl and this to this girl and while one's passed out for with the other, like it's so and then in this episode sleep so I'm going to hit on her friends, like what? And then in this episode it's like it's so weird because it's like they were writing him to be like the broody book guy, but then also they were like and be like a young guys starting on

a TV show, Like it's so it's very sexy. The way he said that against you against the wall when you were showing yeah, I was like, like I was uncomfortable and I did the scene and I was like over felt out of character. To me, it just seems like there's a lot like, Okay, I'll give Luca space to experiment with, you know, feeling out different crowds and like, who do I want to be in different environments? But the way he was interacting with Brooke, I don't know.

For me, it just fell out of character. I just didn't buy it. The only thing that makes sense to me about that is he's been a good guy. He came like he was real slow burned with Peyton, like I'm gonna respect your space, so I'm going to try to talk to you about feelings and things, and he got burned and it didn't work and off, and so there's kind of a like okay, well screw it mentality, you know, let me try to be in this other guy Nathan certainly seems to get everything you want by

acting in this way. And then I wanted to see a change. I wish I would have seen a moment like they could have written in some kind of moment where he was like he's standing there looking in the mirror and thinking about this memory whatever, and it's like, you know what, he makes a decision. I'm going to go for it. And I just needed something I needed to switch that was missing in the writing him making

a choice. And I was thinking, that's something that I'm realizing as we're talking about it is perhaps some of the what felt like really different or outlandish behavior, out of character behavior, is also motivated by the fact that it's really the first time we see two of the high school kids in a grown up environment. Yeah, it's a lot of like make believe, Like, yeah, they got into the bar so easy, got served liquor. It was

passed off so casually. Brooks like, oh, I made us fake ideas with your yearbook photo, as if that's an easy thing to do. But but so suddenly you have these high school kids in a grown up space, and and as we were watching it, I was like, oh my god, you're right, Hillary, this is an episode where we see Lucas behaving more like Nathan. But what struck

me that I kind of forgot about. You know, we've all been I don't know what one for a couple of weeks, whole three weeks chat at this point, like twenty four or something like, he's only a year older than we are, know he's not. He's three years older than us, isn't he? No, he said, than us. But

he'd been working for so long. He'd been like in Cinderella Story, Freaky Friday, He'd been on Gilmore Girls, Dawstin's Creek, so he'd done all of this work before where he was cast as the sexy guy, and I was like, what the fan base wanted to see him doing. He seems like a grown up in this episode, like a code it was. It came easy to him. It came very easy. But by the way, like the bar that you guys shot in we've mentioned on this podcast before,

let's get in Blue Post Memories. We love the Blue Post. Yeah, the Blue Post has ski ball in the back. Darts was a big deal. They and the pool tables, I mean, we're those were jamming. If you could flirt with a boy on those pool tables. I played a lot of darts, on a lot of ski ball. Did you skip ball? They had ski ball? But I wish I had gotten good at cool Like, oh, by the way, Brooke Davis is a casual pool shark, which we also got. Why didn't we keep that storyline going? Yeah? Why didn't we

have one that trick? We needed a pool table at trick was like low on cash. You could have gone. I could have been like you, Victoria, I'm gonna go make money pool shark and girls. I would have loved if that had continued. Also, I would have loved to have had an excuse to get good at pool because I'm not, and I wish I was. I don't trust girls who are. I'm like, what do you? But it's one of those things when we watched this scene, like how cool does it look? It looks cool? It really does. Um,

did you guys get tattoos in high school? No? Joy, No, I was a clean team. But but here's what I'll say. I had the boyfriend in high school who had tattoos. My boyfriend was bad in fact, Oh yeah, yeah, he there's a picture of him. There's like a full spread of him in the year book because he had an eyebrow piercing and he had tattoos. Um, they let him come to school with a piercing in his eyebrow. Oh yeah, he Where are you boy? Um, he's out there somewhere,

probably still being bad. But yeah, he had an eyebrow piercing and like a he had a Woo Tang Clan tattoo on his wrist and then there was like another one. God, I feel like it was on his leg. I can't remember, um, but it was like a scandalous thing. Oh of course in high school. Yeah, I mean, how old were you guys when you got your first tattoos? I got mine in Wilmington's UM from a tattoo artist named Sarah Peacock, who is I remember that. Sarah Peacock's really like a

great tattoo artist. If you can score in appointment with her, UM in Wilmington's you should do that. Yeah. Um. And she did the s on my wrist for Scott, and then she she did a tattoo on my ribs like right before I left town. Um. And it felt like it was right when I was closing certain personal chapters and I was just like let's go moralize this forever. You had one on your foot though when we started shooting? Was that already there? Oh? I got mine the day

I graduated high school? Did you do it? Yeah? Yeah, I drove into the East Village and got got a tattoo on. You're just I need to know more about like seventeen year old Joy in her apartment driving to the East Village with your Mariah carry hoop ear rings. I feel like the more the more I watch Friends, because I'm binging it right now at night, it's like

my comfort show. Um, the more I realized I'm Phoebe, Yes, I have memories, and I feel like I've lived so many different lives, you know, and Phoebe's like, oh yeah, when I lived in Prague and everybody's looking at her like what I Like, I think that's me random parts of my life that I take this as a compliment, but one hundred percent, yes, your Phoebe. Our Season one nickname for you was Joy Peter, That's right, remember that?

And like it was just because like Joy was Joy was always so comfortable and like, I'm on a different planet and what are you guys talking about? Like agents and casting directors. No, No, we're talking about like Victorian homes and you know, like something totally obscure today. And you know, people ever created gold jewelry. I remember people used to think I was mad or grouchy a lot, because well, I have the that my elevens, you know, right between my two eyes, the lines in my forehead,

and those are just genetic. My every woman in my family has those from a young age. And but I was always thinking really intently and quiet. And when I go into my own world, I'm gone, Like you can be talking to me and I don't see you or hear you, and it's not personal. I'm just my brain can't. I can't multitask the same. I'm just gone. I'm somewhere. It's a skill set. You don't. People would think I was so crouchy. I need never clocked it as grouchy.

I just clocked it as she's got better ship going on. But what we're talking about, Yeah, I love you as Phoebe, and I love you on your planet and I love your Were you even eighteen yet when you got your tattoo on your foot? Um no I had, Oh No, I wasn't eighteen. No, I was still I was still seventeen. I think I just uh wait, actually no, I was. I was just turned April. April. I had just turned eighteen.

That's right. I think that's well, that's why they tattooed me because I could show my I d I didn't get my first tattoo until I was twenty three. And here this is I've met. Well, I'm going to embarrass myself. You guys did like Goldie Hawns so much. I was closing a personal chapter in my life at the time. Hillary, we have this in common, and those books they just close them and set them on fire. And I read Goldie's book, Uh, A Lotus Grows in the Mud, and

its like is that what it like? Changed my life? Actually, when our sweet friend Danil was going through a time, I gave her my copy with all my notes in it. I was like, I never do this. This is the inside of my heart. Read this book. Um so, I think it's been like just sort of passed around groups of women going through transitions. But I got my first tattoo um here in l A at the Shamrock on sunset, and then I got my next couple. I got my next couple in Wilmington's um yeah, man, and I don't know.

I've just kind of wrapped him up ever since we just have to hide them. I just put them away. Yeah, that's why six of my seven are white. One tattoo, yeah, which is really fun. It's like such a party trick when you show people because they're like, what do you mean you have seven tattoos? And you start showing them where they are and people are like, oh my god, I see you. And She's like, let's go to Sweden, and like once people see them, they can't un see them.

The fun tattoo? Did that symbol really mean? Fun? Do we know? That? Would be fun to find out? Symbol mean? I don't remember what Brooks tattoo. That's another thing. So for one episode, Brooke was a pool shark, and for one episode Brooke had a tattoo. They just went away and I realized that the entire thing happened as a vehicle for them to put that tattoo on Chad's arm for Lucas, because Chad has a real tattoo on his shoulder and they were having such a hard time covering

it up. Was that his real tattoo? No, No, he's gotta it's like, but it's raised. So they were having so much trouble covering it with flesh tone that they needed an excuse to put a bandage over his arm from basketball. They couldn't get it to stay on, and when he'd sweat, it would kind of run and and they were just really struggling, and they realized that if they covered it and then put a tattoo over it, it did just enough for the eye on camera to

take away the texture of his covered up tattoo. They write this whole They wrote this whole thing to get Lucas a tattoo so they could put a bandage on a short sleeve shirt. Right. I literally he could have worn a shirt under his jersey, but they wanted to show off all the boys muscles, so they weren't going to do that. Okay, our fabulous producers, they were giving us a note. They're saying, he supposedly got the word fun tattooed on his arm in characters that you know

Chinese Chinese character. In reality, the Mandarin characters are the equivalent of the word have wa. This is great. This is what I was gonna say. I remember joy much like Hayley's penis hat. I remember Mark and the Writer's roasting Chad because they were like, yeah, you know, we're gonna say Lucas got a tattoo that says fun and it says something else. Joy. How did you feel watching Craig Cheffer la in the lowdown, hot and bothered? Baby?

He was? He was so starned. That was great and we and Lucas, you know, Lucas needed it, and I loved that he you know, came around and was willing to help him out with his jankie tattoo that got all like infected and stuff. The rotten tattoo, rotten drugs and tattoos don't work that way. No, can we talk about Craig Cheffer's archaic threats when he goes, what did

you do? Join the navy? And then he's talking about get his tattoo and he goes, you you could get an infection or hepatitis or he throws out yeah and um and then make some like like offbeat reference to getting a tattoo in the Philippines, which is and what it is, and then and then the threats of bread and water. I mean, yeah, he definitely was like that. Was real old school. Somebody from the thirties wrote that's yeah.

Somebody that was like, I served in World War two and we're got bread and water and you'd get a tattoo if you got really wasted, and that would got in fracto madness. Oh my god. There was also some interesting stuff on the other side of Keith, which is Dan and how Dan. You know, coming off of the last episode where he was, it seemed he was well, he was definitely more introspective. Um, he was definitely processing a little bit more about his life where he is now,

the choices that he's made. It seemed like Dan was really taking some time to think about those things, and that definitely bled over into this episode. Um, so we have him being more introspective now he's being tender with

Nathan in the hospital. He seems like he's really you know, looking out for Nathan and trying to help and trying to make some changes, and we learn more about why he is the way that he is and um, and then he blows it all up by not calling Deb, by trying to bail Nathan out and threatening the doctor, and also by telling Nathan it's okay. The Scouts won't remember it right, Like he doesn't care at all about his mental or physical well being. No, it's just like

college and the fact that he didn't. It was more important to him to be the parent that was there for Nathan, that he specifically did not let deb no so that he could be the hero, so he could use it a hster that was competitive in every aspect of his life. You know, even in like the parenting part, it's like I'm the favorite. He would pick me just

say yeah, yeah. The narcissism was out of control. That's what I was going to say, Like you said it, you know, just it was it was an exclamation watching his behavior. I mean, you literally went the narcissism. It's

it is. It's so toxic. And even when he realizes he's been too hard on Nathan and he's saying you're never going to break my record and all this nonsense that shouldn't matter to a parent, when he comes back before the game and says, Nathan, I said that to you because nothing would make me happier than you're breaking my record, and there's one beat and then he says, but I don't think you will. It's like, oh my god. Even your apologies are filled with attacks. Can't help himself,

help himself, He's a monster. This is like a telltale marker of a narcissist too, is that there. You know, there's a lot of people who they they'll say, oh, this person can't be a narcissist because they they have these deep feelings. Narcissist supposedly supposedly can't feel anything. They have no empathy. So you think like, oh, I see

this person crying, I see them feeling bad. No, no, no, no no, he feels bad because there are consequences for his actions, and he's feeling the pain of the consequence. So he is feeling bad for himself. It has nothing to do with anyone else. And you really see that in Flying Colors in this episode. I think with Dan, I wonder if they should use our show in like psychology courses, name that diagnosis. I think that's part of why it feels so good to finally see deb Scott

raise her voice. Can you tell him to get out and to call him a smug son a bitch. We have a guest who was one of our ladies who we could scream and cuss with back in base camp. Take a little bit of a break, and then one of our favorite humans is joining us. Don't go anywhere, ladies and gentlemen. We are so excited, so excited. Guess who's here. I'm pumped that she figured out how to use zoom. Oh my god, Jojo, can you see us? We're so excited to see everybody at home. This is

Jojo Stevens. She took care of us for the majority my run on One Tree Hills, certainly, but the key hair and a key troublemaker back in base camp on One Tree Hill. You know where all the bodies are buried. Oh yeah, Jojo knows where all the bodies are buried. And also you just were, like, are solace of all that? I screamed so loud when you came on camera. The dog thinks something's wrong with me. Hi. Yeah, I just gotta work. I'm sitting in my car. Tell us what

you're working on. I know, but tell everybody at home when you're working working on dr I just Gemstones, John Goodman and why am said why? And A D. Patterson Peter you know you you only know their character names because you gotta look at a call sheet and see who's sitting in your chair in the morning. Now I know that Jock says better than I know their next Joejoe,

you don't age, you look exactly the same. Oh my gosh. Well, uh, if I hadn't had a little cocktail, I could see how better and I would have my glasses on that. Hold on, let's get into cocktail hour with Jojo. Cocktail hour feels real important. So last week I told the story about that time that I had to make out with Chad and you gave me a shot back in base camp to give me strength. Um, the Jojo cocktail Hour is a legend. Is it continuing on this production? No,

everybody's scaredy cat. We Christie's working with me. Brian doesn't drink, Brian losses, Hello, Brian, tell us you're you're a drink of choice, your trailer drink of choice, A trailer drink of choice. Well, it depends on We'll drink with shypathetically of course, aypathetically? Um vodka, Yeah, hello vodka. Chelsea. George was a compurest God bless um. Joe. When you got involved in the show, how did you that come about? Who called you? Because you came in? I was with

Mike Tolin. Okay, he was a producer. He was the guy, I mean, hey to me, he was the one that started the show and the the you know, leather pants and stuff like that came later. So I do you remember, if you remember, I was going to I was going to exit the show because of the way, uh, certain people were treating me. And I called Mike Tolin to tell him, sorry, dude, but this is not working out.

And he said, no, letting make a phone call. The next thing I know, I'm in the office of certain producers and I kind of let them know that, um, TeamWorks, my deal. And it changed after that. So wow, I if anyone could lay down the law, you you know

what teamwork was your deal and it is. And I because I remember that being such a a focal point for for us when we were in the trailer, you know, especially when there were things that you know, we were all, especially with the girls, there were lots of misunderstanding, lots of things that you know, we were hearing from other people or you know, as we've said, there was so

much division. And I remember that you were constantly working to get us all on the same team, on the same page, and it was there's a lot of extra effort that you didn't have to do. You know, you were just there to do our sit there to do our hair, and instead you poured your heart and soul into all of us when we were so young and needed guidance. And um, I mean, I just I'm so I love you, I miss you, and I'm grateful for

your guidance there. Yeah, you were to ask for one of your episodes, and you guys were talking about your characters and your I'll probably start crying, but you were talking about your characters and their relationships, and you guys were all living your life's and your relationships and everything was so fast, and yeah, I wanted to to slow down.

But then again, I know I remembered always, you know, a lot younger than and I remembered the times when I was building my relationships and how much fun it wasn't the feeling and getting the betterflies and stuff. But then again, at the same time, you were being push push, you know, kind of I don't know, just worked on

and yeah, just manipulated and stuff. You know, there was good stuff that came out of it, stuff, but I was always like, oh my god, I wish they could just say, I hope you can look back and go, wow, you encourage me to get in trouble. I remember like being real square, being a real prude, and she was like, but here's the deal. You could go out and have

some fun and nothing bad would happen. Every love letter I ever got, I'd showed to Joe's sitting inner chair, you know, like it was good to have a touch own where I could be like, am I being bad? And Joe's answer was always no. You canceled all of us through, not only the moments when we were falling in love and the moments where things were falling apart. I mean we were joking a couple episodes ago, we were just dying laughing. I was like, where do you

think all the engagement rings went between us? Because everybody's a couple, and like, oh god, I just you're right. We we wanted to like prove that, you know, we were all grown up and we had everything figured out. And and I will give you so much credit because you held us and you mothered us, and you gave us great advice, but you never told us what to do. And I can't imagine how many times you had to bite your tongue because we did some stupid with Joy,

would I Joy? I don't know. I'm sure. I'm sure you had to enjoy with her experimental hair phase. Remember when like you would put the little tiny braids in your hair and then you have unicorn hair for like a second, how Joe? Okay. So hair is obviously something that we talked about a lot on the show because that was how we all tried to express ourselves or you know, just feel like we had a little bit

of control over what we were doing. How exhausted were you doing three hundred hair dues on three hundred different girls. Let me tell you when I went, when I interviewed for a job after One Tree Hill, it looked like I had you know, you know a lot of resumes are like long and you know, fifty things on them. Well I had to point out that on my time on One Tree Hill, I did over five hundred hairstyles.

So then that opened her eyes. So everybody listening out there, if your hairsty was just starting right down the number of oh gosh, I mean you were fighting humidity with with two girls with curly hair, Um, you know, one of them had to be straight and one had to be curly, but it all had to be done with an iron which doesn't stay uh in humidity. It water just lets it all out. So that's a big challenge

that you're right now these days. I mean, and after we left, you know, it's just me Christie and a third I do. I think there was like two or three more people hired, and you know, and another trailer and a whole team for us second unit. And nowadays doing four people's unheard of because you know, it's like it's like it's like many movies, you know, per episode,

you know, episodic. But oh yeah, we shot in the right if it didn't read, uh, you girls were out in the weather, and what that means for the folks at home when Jojo says if it didn't read, so a funny thing can happen sometimes on camera. It can be raining, but if the drops are small, they won't quote read on camera. You won't be able to see them. So they would put us out in the actual rain and you know, coming blot us down with the tissue every couple of weeks, so they want drops on our faces.

But we'd be standing in the rain and then they look at Jojo and be like, can you just clean up your hair? And she's like, it's wet now. It's like Harry. Harry's hair would totally change if too wet. Enjoyce went two, depending on you know, how much we had blooded dryer, or if she pulled down her ponytail after the first tight and said it wouldn't show probably wearing the poncho that everybody but you hate it. I

didn't hate it. I thought it was cute. Ponchos were, and by the but I don't know that leather pants knew that. That's by the way. Okay, so the one that shall not be spoken of will forever now be known as leather pant has branded it done Done go to. Nick started out blue jeans and went leather payt Wow gross, Hey Joe, Joe, Because I think some of the technical stuff is really interesting to people, especially like you know, some of the language we know, like does it read

whatever whatever? And you just said if there's anybody listening who wants to be a hair stylist, right down what

you're doing. I'm actually curious because I do think there's probably a lot of people listening to this show who are into the film industry, can you explain to people listening who might be curious about your line of work, like, what is day to day life like on set for a hairstylist and and what's the difference when you're a key hairstylist or you're the department head for hair What what do those things mean for for film industry? Curious

listeners at home, Hello, curious listeners. As you know, you can have a team of you know yourself and two more or three more and you know, depringing upon the size of the uh TV series around or the movie kind of done a movie in a while, but um, but you know, episodic After doing movies and doing episodic it is so hard. It's much harder than film are features. But the family unit that you build with um and everybody knowing your name is so much just just means

so much more. UM and armit hand. You're pretty much you know, you're in charge of well, on the show, I'm on the guys. You know, really let us be involved in the creative process. So we've actually got I got to help create these characters and their hairstyles and stuff. UM, So you do that and you make sure the scheduling is right, and it turns out sometimes the department had turns out to be more um about making the schedules and paperwork and sending in budgets and ordering and ordering

and ordering. But you're doing a lot of management work when you're the department. Yes. And if you get yourself a good team and you get to do both, um, that's that's the that's the juggling that you do. Um. And then you're on set making sure those hairstyles like awesome all day and sometimes you have to make that same hairstyle look the same for eight hours when in fact on the show it might be one second or one minute. And then you also have to be a therapist,

and uh title myself as a therapist. I would say, um, I've just lived it a little bit before you all did. So I think you were well suited to us, though, Joe, because you like bartended back in the day, like your your experience back in the day was kind of what we as young actresses were living. And just like going out in a town going to see bands, like just trying to get involved and and you really coached us

through it. We always had good music in the trailer, like the We had a good call fee in the trailer. We had good music in the trailer, and we had good vodka in the trailer, And I don't know if you can go wrong with that combination. Jojo. What what are some of your strongest memories from your time on One Trio? Um? The like I want like flashback when everybody was dressed up. Um, there's so many watching uh Lee nors cheer that one of my favorite favorite. So hard,

he did so good where the real cheerleaders. I'll these girls like, oh, well, we've got this, We've got this, and then there's like hundreds of real cheerleaders. Y'all had to learn your routine, like, oh my god, this is that episode's coming up. Joe, and we were terrible, terrible. You're like mad at each other but not really, but then mad at yourself because you didn't get the routine and we've got this, yes whatever. There's like four hundred extras, jam.

I mean, he was so everybody hasn't seen that episodes and they're gonna really know what we can do. He practiced for so long and they would always we had to do do you remember when we had to do that stuff? They'd be like, well, we'll have someone come show it to you guys right before you have to film, and we were like, we can't learn a whole am. What are you guys talking about? Like, we don't know

what we're doing. When the ten minutes you had to be talked, you know, before we shot it, y'all were so funny. I had to walk away. I was like, oh my god, because that feeling of like trying so hard to focus and also knowing that no matter how hard you focus, you are just gonna fail, and there's people standing there looking at you. Did you come up with? Was like, well, let's just be bad, you know, and make it look We were like, let's just start doing

the robot and the can can we made up all that. Yeah, gosh, not everybody can be a winner. Um yeah, that was a good one. Jojo was also great. I would have these Halloween parties where we always had like a theme. Right, you're the only person I know they didn't have to decorate our house from Halloween. Shut up. It's true though. I mean I lived in Squalor and haunted house was a coffin I did. God has forgot about that. Right when I moved in with Jeff. He's like, you can't

bring any of that, that was too much. But Joe would come decked out. I'm gonna post some pictures from our Halloween parties. Everyone would get to the house at like nine or ten, and then Jojo will have sat in like hair and makeup for like three more hours. If I the time she gets to the party, she's already like gone. You would set up and then you would disappear. You came as Jojo the dog faced girl

because everybody liked calling out because of my name. So Rachel decided that she would bake and I remember drinking. Rachel was our makeup artist. Remember that the hair? Oh my god, almost gag just now thinking about it, because almost it was our carnival theme party. Would you do for the Oh you came dressed as a princess to our fairytale party. That was a good one. Were you look an evil queen that had poison apples and that

made the shots. Yes, it's good to have a bartending hairdressing friend to take care of you at your party's indeed, oh, I just remember him. You had the big you put up the big screen and you're one of your houses and you showed movies and stuff. Yeah, I didn't get into TV. I just had a projectory and I painted a giant yeah, like a reflective screen on the wall. That wasn't my old that place on Orange Street. And I had big velvet curtains, and I loved antique shopping

in Wilmington's. It was so fun. I want to know some secrets. I want to know some like what some like fun stuff that we can talk about. That's that's like fun trailer secrets that we would have forgotten or you know, things that maybe like some of us don't know because other others weren't there. Okay, so the secrets are Joy didn't know what a higgy was, Oh my god. And the other secret Barbara Alla Woods. They asked her to be in uh brown panties on the billboard thing. Remember,

Oh that's what she asked me. I mean, I don't know, what do you think? Wah wawa? You know what? Barbara? I can't remember. I just said, you know what, I don't know how old you are or whatever said, but you know what I remember reading that. Um An actor, a real famous actress, said she wished she would have done more in her forties or thirties, you know, when she was in her fifties. She was saying this, and I said, you know what, Marbot, you got a rocking body,

freaking show it off. Just do it, guys. And Jojo literally said that to me two months ago. She was doing my head at her house in Georgia and she's like, Hillary, you're covering up too much. It's time. She d in the middle of all of us crew members. It's broun pays, damn billboard stuff. And I said, if you don't want to do it, don't do it, but you know, do it. Don't do it because they're making it. Don't because you want to say, look at me sucking, rocking this body.

And she did it. I love that you did. Always add that perspective to a lot of the stuff that we had to do, where it was like, you know what, some of this is really kind of misogynistic and whatever, but if we own it and do it our way and posture it in the way that we're comfortable. Um. It helped so much to know that there were women on our team. I had to do some of this stuff. I mean, like the sex scenes that we had to

shoot as teenagers. I had to leave the stage if I heard, you know, because the sound is so much louder when you're you know, when you're on especially, it's horrible. And that kissing thing. I loved all of you so much. I had to listen to kiss one more time. I'm gonna throw up. I mean, I just had to know

it sound boy euristic and I like it. You were there for all of the battles that we would have about those scenes and about like what we were supposed to wear, and you know how how in depth the scenes were going to be, and us fighting for our characters and knowing that we were in a position of um, young high school girls looking up to us and being and really caring about the message that we were putting out for them. Um yeah, I mean I remember that too.

I remember that you were always there, You heard all of it, and you were constantly giving us advice on uh never telling us what to do, but like helping us were out what our thoughts actually were so that we could present an argument to the people that we were that were in charge, that we were butting up against that was intelligent, an adult, and you know that we could really present ourselves in a way that was effective. Joe, Joe, thanks for hanging out with us. Are we your favorites?

Can we tell all the other kids that we're your favorites? I think everybody knew that and that and still and I love you so guys, so much. And it's not a day that goes by that I don't think about you and say thank you for the stuff that you taught me. We love you. Oh, I know, Joanne, Can I tell you something. I I tell a story no less than once a month, and I'll never forget it.

And I think this is probably something. I know it's a thing that I needed to hear, and I know it's probably something that so many of our listeners at home need to hear. Um. You know, so many of us are really good at showing up for other people and loving our friends while doubting ourselves. I mean, it's

it's what kept the three of us. You know, what let us be manipulated for so long when we were little girls, was that we each of us like sat in the corner looking at the others, being like, Wow, they're so amazing, and I'm the odd man out, Like we didn't know how to turn it around. And we didn't know how to get over the hurdle of just asking. And I remember being in your chair one day and I just was venting and I was like, and I'm bad at this and I'm failing at this and this

isn't working. And I was just like really on a on a moment of criticizing myself so aggressively the way that you know we all negative self talk, but I was doing out loud in front of you, and you went and you listen, and then you went, and I could just feel your hands getting like more atlantic in my hair, and finally you threw the brush on the counter and you spun me around in the chair. You grabbed me by the shoulders and you shook me and looked me in the eye and you said, you watch

your mouth. You're talking about my best Oh. And even now it makes me want to cry. It was such I mean, you shook me out of some things, and I realized I would never let anybody talk about any of you the way I was talking about. Oh. It was such a wake up call. And I tell that story to anybody who's having a bad day. I'm like, well, you know what my friend Jojo said to me one

because it's just it's so good. It's so good. You also said, was it you or was it Kelly Jefferson who said my second favorite thing to me about a goat, everything got takeout, messing up your lipstick? Oh, all right, we need Key Jefferson. Kelly was our makeup artist. We'll have to have her on next. Kelly Jefferson told me, you know, all of us, ladies, we went through some falling ins and outs of love. And I'll never forget Kelly.

One day when we were all venting in the trailer, going oh, girls, come on hey, he she goes love and hater just two horns on the same goat, Southern so good. So the two of you really gave us some some jewels for our crown again. Yeah. Show love you Joe, Joe, we love you so much. I love you, Joe, But I tell you joy bye bye, honey bye. Oh

my god, my god. To be able to just pick right back up with people back up, I feel like I got really lucky because I went to go visit jeff on set on The Walking Dead a few years ago, and UM had got I didn't I didn't have George yet. Um, so I bring gus to set and Taylor, who is the key hairdresser on The Walking Dead, had done our pilot. She was the hairdresser on the pilot, and it's only when she didn't sign up to do the whole show that Jojo came in and took over and they're like

best friends. So Taylor comes out of the trailer and goes, oh my god, wait until you see who's here. The door flies open and Jojo comes running out and we just like burst into tears, and it was Jeff's like, why are you crying? What is going on right now? But it's it's so nice to have those friendships that are only born from like being together eighteen hours a day, every single day, and they last forever. Yeah, I mean being on set the way we all do it, both

with the location and the hours. You know. I joked with a friend on a job recently that it's kind of like an arranged marriage. Yes, Like you just show up and you're married to this whole group of people because you see these people way more than you see anybody you might actually be married to or no, and and you're just like in it for a decade and

you got to figure out Yeah, you gotta figure it out. Okay, We're gonna take a quick break and we'll come right back and have a little bit more to talk about With this episode. Um, we had some Halie and Peyton connecting, We had some some really nice acting work from James Lafferty, and we also have a spinning wheel of most likely to and some listener questions. So stayed everyone. We have news. Hi, We're doing a virtual event in September in honor of

One Tree who are three. Everyone in the O t H Fam knows it's our favorite day, and this event is also going to benefit one of our favorite groups. US Ladies are raising money for Kind Campaign because they do incredible work in schools to end bullying and honestly, our Tree Hill High School needed that. Yes, yes, so there is a lot of information forthcoming, but check out looped live dot com. They have everything right there and more info will be added soon. So we can't wait

to see you guys. You want O th H Day. One of the things that I'm realizing after reminiscing with Jojo, our favorite gal on on planet One Tree Hill, he's that she had that energy for us that you saw in debb tonight when she was like, you smug son of a bitch, I will stab you in your sleep. I'm like, I believe Barbara would do that for us. And also JoJo's that kind of one, and she is the one who's like, you mess with my girls, and

I'll bleach all your hair off. Yeah. By the way, by the way, like a little nick on the ear here, a little yeah, my curl and iron I'm so sorry. She's one of those people who will come to your defense.

What a tea it was. It was cool to see Deb's escalation over the course of how many episodes does have enjoy like, well, I guess for since she appeared, I think, um, but yeah, it's been a slow burn and she, as we've said, she's handled it with class the entire times, leading by examples, setting an example of how to be patient and kind and loving but still have boundaries. But this was the last straw not keep a mother from her injured son, no way. Yeah. I

like seeing her blow a gasket. And I think you know, Barbara talked about this herself. She's like, once they saw what I could do, you know that three episode arc, it gave them ideas for other stuff, and so you see the seed being planted for like intense deb later down the road, the one that's like yelling to people for fun, you know, like we're seeing her maybe enjoy it, Like this feel's new, right. I really liked the scene that you and I had Hillary in the with the library.

It feels good to have Jojo on for this episode in particular because as someone that grew up with all brothers, I always had difficulty communicating with girls my own age. I could communicate with like older women because I grew up doing theater with them, and I could communicate with like little girls, but girls my own age I struggled with. And Jojo was such a good girlfriend coach Like Jojo. If I took something the wrong way, other people might feed into it and be like, oh, that is messed up.

And Jojo was always like grow up, Like what's the problem. Okay, that sounds dumb, you know, Like she was like, be a good girlfriend, you show up, you listen, it's not about you, you know, Like she didn't mince words, which I needed. I needed a firm hand, and and she was you know a lot of people treat actors with kid gloves, and I think that well so that was a problem on our show. I think every other department has a department head, right, who sets the tone for

their department, can reprimand people. There's no department head for the talent department, right, so we don't have meetings. Well number one on the call sheet usually you know, the is supposed to set the town. But but we were kids, kids, Yeah, yeah, when when a kid is the number one a recipe for disaster because when you're a kid, you don't know what you're doing. What are they going to tell Moira?

You know, right, that's a bad idea, Moira. Moira should have been the department head of the great We need a department head in our group. And so for me personally to have Jojo be like, be a good girlfriend and value your female friendships more than boys. You know, she was always that cheerleader. But the scene, yeah, the scene with Haley and Peyton is so important to me

personally because we struggled with all the sexuality stuff. And I think it's the first time really that Peyton sounds jealous that Haley is a virgin, you know, And I think there are girls really like that out there. Yeah, I know there are. I was one for sure in high school, I mean, and that's why it was important to me to read a line that way, because it was written on paper as like an embarrassed like, so what if I am, like, don't make fun of me,

blah blah blah. And I like most of the girls that I went to high school with were virgins for I mean, I don't know what happened after they graduated, but at least you know, during the time that I was there, like that that was the majority. And I just wanted to represent that as a normal um option, you know what I mean, especially glad that they allowed

me to do that as well. I think it's important, especially because for so long, and I know we're having different conversations now, but we certainly were not in oh three.

For so long, virginity was represented as this thing that like made you special but also made you prude, and that guys would try to take but you shouldn't give them, but then you shouldn't not because then you're a tease and like, and then you're do and if you do, yeah, Like, it was all wrapped up in the male gaze and in the like traditional Madonna horror complex and all this

gross toxicity. And it was so refreshing to me not being in the scene with you guys, just watching it, to see two girls with two different experiences with the same I wasn't even thinking about that. I was just thinking, like, neither of them is being judged. Like, you make your choices as a woman, and you do what you're ready for, period, and it doesn't have to do with anybody else, or a boy or anyone else is going to say to you. And I loved that that neither Hayley or Peyton was

shamed in that scene. Neither of them was made better than the other. They were just being supportive. And it's beautiful. It was beautiful, and you guys played it so beautifully. And and Joy, I love that you made that choice to be like so what like I like me, you know, it was such a good but I'm into myself. Well gave everyone permission. Yeah, that's yeah, I really wanted to. That was a really intentional choice. And I remember that they because I remember the way that it was written.

I remember it was like she was supposed to be embarrassed, and I just was so I don't know if I had to fight for that or if they just let me um, I don't remember when we watched it. I didn't remember a shooting it. And the more we talk about it, the more I remember, Like now now I'm remembering the muscle memory of that scene, and I remember

it being a conversation. I remember it being like a thing that you were very concerned about and you were like, this is how it's happening, and that's the only way

it's going to happen, which was awesome. Yeah, well, we were all very conscious, as I said before, we were conscious that there were young girls looking up to us, and there was already a lot of sexualization happening on the show from a male perspective, and it just it was so it was just so important to me that that there was a demographic represented in a positive way, you know, so that girls just that weren't making that choice did feel comfortable with it and tattoos and they

just had somebody to identify with that was like, you know, I like the way she's doing it, and that they felt it wasn't like an embarrassment, it wasn't posturing or trying to like make up for like, oh no, I like it. It's fine. I'm a virgin. And we'll leave me alone. You know, none of that. No, it was just I wanted it to be confident and totally comfortable with who she is. But anyway, we've talked to enough about that, And I want to talk about James in

this episode because he is so damn good. I remember he was working with a coach to an acting coach was just such a testament to I mean, he's seventeen or eighteen at the time, and so committed to this work, so committed to doing a great job and showing up, showing up on when without with the work done and prepared and ready to just dive in and commit fully emotionally to the scene. Not a not a lot of young guys have that in them. Well, there's also a

lot of ego like I don't need a coach. I don't need to you know, right, James was so willing to do whatever it took to find it. And his voice was the thing that really captured my attention because it was like, oh my god, that's a sick, sad kid. Yeah, when he comes to Haley after the hospital incident, so that that sound is heartbreaking. His voice sounds like broken glass. Yeah, it does. It was such a great choice, and I loved to thinking about the connection of these two scenes.

The moment between you two ladies and the tutoring center makes it so clear when he's apologizing for his behavior for pressuring her physically, saying that she was the one he looked at like before he really blacked out, and he admits his terror. He says, I was terrified and

then asks to stay. It's so clear that he just wants to be held, he wants to sleep next to her, and and I don't know if that would have been as clear when she shuts the door if it hadn't have been for the scene between the two of you, and Haley owning her her choice to you know, wait, to be intimate, and and it it just gave it. It gave it this innocence and this vulnerability that oh, that's a beautiful scene between you. Thank you. I loved

it too, I thought, Um. I liked also that I was a little I was I didn't remember shooting the scenes, so I was a little unsure of what was going to happen, and I was like, is this going to go in the direction of Haley? Now it's gonna be willing to sleep with him because she feels add for him, because she wants to take care of him at home. Don't do that. Yeah, that's not the way. That's not

the way. Um. But yeah, I was a little unsured, But it felt to me like when she shut the door, it was more of a choice of like, I'm going to do something that I'm not so I'm not supposed to boy sleep over. But it's like Hayley's parents trusted her and she wasn't. I'm having a boy sleepover to have sex with him. I'm having this boy sleepover because he needs me and I'm a good friend and I'm a good you know. Um, I'm a good person, and I'm gonna across the line that I'm not supposed to.

But it's not really doing anything that's breaking her own boundaries, do you know what I'm saying? Sorry, because there there are so many incremental lines as a young woman, especially before you choose to be in a physically intimate relationship, Like you know, when he ruins it in the beginning of the episode and you guys are making out and then he tries to move on you and you're like

get out. It's like, remember a good old fashioned, just high school makeout sweet and like we might know your husband, we can tell him. But like there's all these things, you know, the first time you sleep next to someone, it's such a big deal, and the and the beauty and the like sweet youthful innocence of loving a person,

and like curling up and just going to sleep. It's it's so nice and and to be able to go back into that high school space and take all of the much smaller, you know, increments is really lovely that we get to do it with these two and that granted, he pushes her too far, but she stands up for herself. He gets out, he realizes he was pushing, he apologizes. You know, relationships can be a little complicated in those ways,

especially when you're young and fumbly and terrible. Um, young boys can be terrible and uh, and I think to figure out where everyone's boundaries are. It's lovely to see it between two characters who are at different levels of sex. I remember being told like, well, once a boy has sex, like that's all he's ever gonna want, you know, like, don't date the boys who were loose, because they'll expect that from you. Always date like the Square Boys, which I never did. Um, but that was like a thing.

You know. You can't put Pandora's box, like you can't close it once it's been opened, which I think is And also it gives this notion of like, oh, boys will be boys. Their hormones way too much power, and it gives them excuses. It's like, no, you're gonna listen to a woman you Consent is not a who said this? Oh my god, oh sexy. She is one of my favorite comedians. And she said, consent is not a feeling

you feel. It's a thing. She says. It has to be clear like and and and I. We talked about this a while back, but this actually feels like an important thing to kind of get in the weeds on being a human is messy, Okay, like getting into a

friendship is messy. We all talk about the messiness of our friendships and our confusion at one It can be a little messy when people are trying to figure out, especially people who could potentially be interested in each other, like does this person like me as a friend or does this person like me romantically? Sometimes it means, um, you know, you get hit on by a guy, and you have to be like, oh, not into you that way, Let's be friends, And that's okay, that's normal, having to

figure out your boundaries as normal. And then there's obviously the other more complex, nightmarish spaces of abuses of power and harassment and things that we've also all been very open, and I think what can be really sticky for everybody is figuring out as we're trying to get much clearer as a society, where in our own experiences there, you know, as one of one, like where is there room to make a mistake or to ask or to say like, hey, I'm very interested in you, and I don't know if

you feel the same way, and if you don't, that's okay. Not trying to make you uncomfortable, Like nobody knows quite how to do it right. And and so one of the things I like is that we didn't smooth it over in the story and like make it all seem perfect and squeaky clean. Like Nathan screwed up, Haley stood up for herself. He said, I'm really sorry I pushed you that way. Like I like that we showed how you can overcome a mistake if you're willing to be

communicative and be a good person is everything. It is everything. And by Haley closing the door at the end of that scene to me, that says apology accepted and I trust you not to do it again exactly, yes, you know, which is sweet. It's also, um, I'm jealous having watched this episode that you're seen turned out like loving and nice and Peyton was left at a door for twenty seven minutes, the three of us holy, like what is that? Also, the guys, I was on a soap opera for two years.

That was the longest I ever saw, the longest unspoken look to look to look to look. You will also say, this is the second time in the first nine episodes that Brooke Davis has been used purely as a device to like make something happen for another person. So at the party, she's a nightmare to stir up the drama, so everyone, and now I've had to get a tattoo

so we can cover Chad's real tattoo. And then but like interestingly, even though they were pretending to be grown ups at this bar, there were moments of sweetness, like looking Lucas joking about weird science and talking about what I loved that scene and then you get right back into like some ding dong boy always wanted a girl to say this to him. I come out of that bedroom going, you're ready to score the superstar, You're ready

to score. It's so disgusting. I would never And the fact that the two girls never said we're best friends, and we don't even say you know nothing. Can we just promise that if we're ever kissing the same person in the you know, the next seventy decade, if we see each other, like let's say South Yeah, yeah, that's

what we can do. Most likely to have a stare down, most happy to be in the world's longest soap opera scene, and Hillary, I want somebody to cut together all of the soap opera stairs, like the longest soap opera stairs, and just the stairs. That's why I want to love that. Oh. Speaking of the amazing things are fans do for us, and we did talk about Brook and Lucas having this

pool shark evening at the Blue Post. One of you guys tweeted me a photo of my plaque from the Blue Post Beer club that is still up, and I just want to say thank you very much. I really like round from fans. All right, let's spin the wheel. Oh, guys, mostly to marry someone twenty five years older than them. We're not show it's Rachel, Yes, yes, that is true. And Hillary, how much older than you is, Jeffrey, We're

a strong seventeen. That's pretty great. What I like is that to him, I'll be twenty six forever like forever, right Like That's that's the upside. So if you want to be pet forever, you know, Joy, do we know how much older than you Craig chefferd is because still be single. I'm just saying I could break my record. What a love story that? No, Listen, I think I think. I think it was a girlhood crush. I think I'm okay, it's graduated. But Joy, realistically though, you could beat my record.

So going to open up the search. Watson has a question for us, and I'm gonna go on a limb and say, in the first nine episodes, from an acting perspective, what was the hardest scene to film, whether complex or emotionally and physically grueling? Because if we try to do that for the whole n you know, the whole other episode. So it go so far in these first nine episodes, what's been like, you know, the most complex for for each of us to do? I mean, running red lights

felt really irresponsible. That was terrible, you know, but because no one could really explain it to me. Um, I had trouble with that. But I also had trouble with the whole like Thud magazine, like it's my art, Lucy's it's my art. Think that was hard for me to give that speech. Are it's important? Are really really matters to me? I felt like Zoolander. Honestly, it's like it's for kids who can't read good. What do you got? I don't know. I don't. I don't think I've had

to do anything that's difficult yet everything. I mean, the most difficult thing for me as an actor was the basketball days when I just had to sit there and you know that's just like a mental exercise and zen uh, your ability to just like zen out. Um now, I haven't not yet, not yet. I haven't had anything about Yeah, you just had so much like great charming, like yeah,

it was all pretty lighte from real talk. I think the thing that was hardest for me, Yeah, like hooking up with random dudes on camera just felt so gross to me, like I don't know about this. Also, I don't know you hear horror stories, and I remember just thinking like is it inappropriate of me to ask to guarantee that none of these people has like her piece before they put their face on my face? Like it

always just made me feel so nervous. Um and then the party episode was hard, like Brooke Brooke being what what felt to me like cruel and having to find interior motivations to create reasons for that. I was just like, this feels sad. Mm hm. I like this question from Katie. If Brooke, Haley, and Peyton were in high school today, what would their Instagram handles be? I mean, I guess I'd be tutor Girl twenty three right, yeah, for sure. I mean paint what was her? Hers was like punking disorderly?

There was what like she that was might be something like grumpy, like go away, you know, don't look at me. I feel like I see people who do this and I'm like, wow, that takes a lot of confidence. So I'm going to borrow from other people, I think, because mine is just my name. I think Brooks Instagram handle would probably be at the Brooke Davis. Yes, there are people out there who are at the and then their name, and I'm like, damn, that takes confidence. I think that's

good question. Thank well, Thanks everybody for joining us for this episode of Drew Rama Queens. Can't wait to see you next week. What a great one. Next episode is episode ten. We're getting into double digits babies. You gotta go there to come back, which is kind of what we're doing with this podcast. You know we're coming back. Hey, Let's see you next week. Bye, Hey, thanks for listening.

Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We all about that high school drama. Girl Drama Girl, all about them high school Queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic Girl Cheering for the Right Teen Drama, Queen's Jeles, My glup Girl Fashion but your tough girl. You can sit with us Girl Drama Queens, Drama Queens, Drama, Queen's Drama Drawn MC Queen's Drama Queens