Lights, Camera, Cry on Cue! • EP115

Air date February thousand and four, and the synopsis is, after his near death experience, Lucas decides he made the wrong choice. But what he did? He ever make a choice? The whole synopsis, Yeah, that's what it says. There's a lot happening in the US. A lot of other stuff happened in this episode also before we had started. Hey, we just want to say thank you to everyone who came to our live event. We had so much fun with you guys. You can't wait to do it again.

And if you missed it, you know we will will do this again, and we hope that you join us because we really had a ball. So thank you for everyone. Who came. Yeah, I feel like slumber parties need to be that's our brand, man. We are slumber party girls. That's the first time I've had a slumber party without my children in yeah, like forever. If I see my girlfriends at home, we all have our kids and stuff. Um,

I had a really good time you guys. That was exactly what I needed Fantassic, you know, and we also got to be together while we talked to Paul, who really walked us through a lot of the Dan Scott decision making, which we saw on full display in this episode. You know, Paul explained to us that every decision he made was because he loved his kids so much, and so even through all of the like horrific stuff he's doing in this episode, he just keeps ringing that bell.

He's like, it's because I love you. It's because I love you. Which is It's interesting because and we talked about this with Paul last week. If he were just playing it as a villain, he would be boring. But because as an actor, he is coloring Dan's deeply narcissistic, you know, deeply abusive on the page behavior with love.

It's like toxic love is a really interesting thing to explore because so many people go through it, so many people come from you know, families where there's generational abuse, where there's inherited trauma, and you start to see it unfold. He does such a beautiful job with it. It's such a weird thing to be like, Oh, Paul, you do such a beautiful job making us all cringe being terrible. The dev stuff is killing of order, and like what happened in this episode but not knowing what deb did?

I don't remember is it is something as simple as an affair, because like who cares? You know? Yeah? And do we really blame her with being married to this sociopath? What could it be? Curious? Guys? Was it pain meds? Did she? Like? Did she end up? Like? Because I know that was later, but maybe I'm just jaded at this point, but I'm like, what could she have done? That is that she's like, Oh, the town can never

know about this, Like the town need cares. I suppose we have to remember early as small town women weren't allowed to do anything wrong. Yeah, that's true. It's a different time. Yeah, now we're out of here making poor choices, Like what do you want from me? I'm a human,

you know. It weirdly made me think of when we all did the time capsule and and Brooke talks about how, you know, you can basically make any mistake and be any kind of average if you're a man, but as a woman you're not allowed to and interesting, and I wonder, you know, if we were feeling that, you know, playing high school kids in the early OTTs, what we're grown ups with actual kids, what had they've been steeped in? Honestly, like,

what could deb have done? Let's let's guess, because I figured we're going to find out in the next episode or two what could have done? That would be like like game changer, deal breaker. It's also hard because everyone on our show did every wrong thing. People had addictions, people had affairs, people drunk drove, they did all the bad things. So given the fact that every character on our show has done something ridiculous, like what could she

have done? Like, the only thing I can think of is like if she tried to drown Nathan in the bathtub when he was a toddler. You know, Oh my god, By the way, that's a piece of information that I could see being like horrif and would drive away between Nathan and his mother. But if she's kissing some dude on like a business conference, I don't care. Did she embezzle money? Who cares? Honestly, that's not a game changer. Um yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think of what it

would be. I don't know. I don't know. I can't wait to find out there really, but they know how to draw some things out, but other things they just speed race or through this whole I mean, Peyton and Lucas hooking back up again. It seems it feels so soon. Can't they'd like just suspend our suspense a little. They were like, you know that thing in other TV shows where they don't let the characters get together for a really long time so the audience really wants it. We're

not going to do that on this show. I want to do the opposite, tried and true, tested method of drawing people in there. No, this is not moonlighting. No, they really just skip ahead and mine. Even in the last episode, you've seen Brooke and Karen sort of begin to have this bonding and and then Lucas wakes up and it's just like Mom to Peyton, come to see me, Like what Karen's sitting there going what's going on, but doesn't even get to ask the question till the end

of the episode. Her befuddlement was probably the thing I connected with most in this episode, because even as a viewer, I'm like, buddy, well, I've whiplash, like what is your situation? And also I really wish that they had I mean, I get what the show was and with the time that it was on in terms of being in the early two thousands and what was happening on TV and all that, but you know, nowadays, I feel like storytelling gets a little more authentic and television in this realm.

And I really wish that they had gone into the depth of why Lucas was so needy. I mean, is need for love and attention was so intense, because, let me tell you, if I was dating a guy that was talking to me the way that he's talking to Peyton that fast, I wish we could fast forward six months. I just want to be with you. I just love you. It's like, dude, we just started getting to know each other like a month or two ago. Started like please stop it. Quit sending me flowers, quit showing up on

my doorstep. Quit, not that he didn't showing you flowers, but peace. Also, by the way, everyone shows up at Peyton's house, they just walk in. But we'll get there. But that's the song I want Jimmy Allen to write about just walking into people's houses. Girl, I don't need it, but anyway, that's right. I just I just really wish we had to spend some more time understanding why you

know that's problematic. Well, let's break that down then for a second, because we've broken down our own characters, you know, like Brooke needs somebody to caddle her, she needs a mom to tuck her in. Peyton clearly how her own baggage. You know, Haley is one of a lot of kids,

so creates these really strong boundaries. Lucas is a kid who I think grew up with a lot of shame because he didn't have a father and everyone knew who his father was, knew who his brother was, And so does that shame kind of, I guess, encourage him to want to be with one of these popular girls, Like if I'm with the captain of the cheerleading squad, does that validate me? If I'm with this other girl who's even more damaged than I am. Does that make me

the hero? So he's going between being like he's going between being the fixer upper and the fixer you know, each girl presents a different path for him, and so no wonder that he's waffling back and forth. It's what we're starting to understand, maybe in this episode for the first time, is oh, as we're looking at some of the behaviors are especially for men behaving inappropriately on our show.

We already know what our characters did inappropriately. We've been mortified about it for eighteen years, like we've got a lot of that. But like looking at Nathan starting off as a bad guy, looking at the way that Dan treats his family's plural I think now we're starting to see, oh, what could the motivation underneath the really at current bad behavior we see Lucas displaying and what I think is actually really interesting. And this is where you know, some

of the writing comes in. They were they were really rushing through it, whereas Dan got more time to unpack his stuff. They rushed the drama with the kids, they rushed the sex, they rushed the you know, betrayals, They rushed us through a lot. But I think it would have been so nice to see this stuff for Lucas slowed down and actually imagine if he'd ever been able

to talk to Haley about this. Oh yeah, in any scene ever, not just like I love her, No, I love her even just Haley being like, hey man, why are you coming on so strong? Like what is your need here? Because it's actually really selfish. It has nothing to do with these girls. This is about you feeding yourself and trying to get full of whatever it is that you feel like you're missing. So how can we address that instead of you using these other two people

to fill fill that void in your life. I will just say I'm very proud of the adults we've become because the things we're saying require immense emotional maturity and the therapy, and I think it's great we did the work. Guy, you haven't done the work, and now we see how other people. That is the difference between storytelling in two thousand three, where it was revolutionary for a boy to

be tender. I mean, I feel like James vanderbyk Gone Dawson's Creek was really the first time I saw a boy exhibiting stereotypically like female behavior and so our boys lean into that in the world of One Tree Hill, and that includes like Jake with his daughter, you know, um two thousand twenty one. Though we could go so much deeper, so much deeper, and really dig into why Lucas is making the decisions he's making. I think he's

just been rattled by this near death experience. And so the way you overcome that is by saying, oh, no, no, no, I'm not a victim. I'm not no, not me, surely not me. I'm going to go fix someone else who's a disaster, you know, which is Peyton. Peyton's always the disaster. You're always saving me, you know. To a guy with a hero complex, that's a turn on. And so if he's feeling like, oh god, no, I was just a weakling who was in a coma for how long do

we know? Was it a week? Two weeks? Like it was a couple of I mean, depending on how many times Karen changed her outfit. They gave her so many variations of purple shirts to purple shirt, I don't know, it's probably a week. Maybe maybe last that's a week. It's been at least a week. I am frustrated with Peyton in this episode because she came flying into his bedroom kissing on him, and my natural assumption as a viewer was, Oh, she must know that he broke things

off with Brooke, like he must have texted her or something. Yeah, I thought that too. Halfway through the scene when he's like, I broke up with Brooke and she's like what, no way, I'm so mad at her. What are you doing? Yeah, it's got I have to say. It's funny, you know, for everyone listening at home, for the three of us to watch these episodes together, because whenever one of our characters does a terrible thing, we go, oh my god, what is she doing? And the other two of us

are dying laughing. And Hillary, I really felt for you in that moment because you were like, she doesn't even know she's kissing him, and she doesn't even know, doesn't know. You were so upset, and we all we're just like, why did they do again? You gotta do what's on the page. The script is written, it's our job to do it, and you just know that those are the days when you go to work and you're like, I really don't want to do this. I think this is a bad choice. Did you remember did you call it

out on the day? I mean, well, I mean say something. I was always any time I had to kiss anyone, You guys know, I was a bit about it. I was just like, I don't want to do this. Um yeah, I mean I think I was really frustrated because it felt like character assassination. It's like parent Payton and done all this work to explain why she's such like an Eyore, you know, and then you just gotta go and screw it up by kissing this dude the second he gets

out of the hospital. She had exhibited restraint. You know in all the previous episodes, you know, where Brooks holding his hand at the side of the hospital bed and Paine's just gotta go. Clearly Brooke has been in his bedroom. There's plants everywhere, there's Christmas. I don't know who she thinks did that? Um did we even know what feng shui was in two thousand three? Was that like a new that was new? I don't know. Now I'm like, this inappropriate. I don't know. It's appropria, That's what I

was gonna say. I was like, I don't know how I feel about that, but I will say. It's when we're thinking about the ways that characters exhibit the the things that make them feel validated. For Brooke, it's like, I'm going to take my credit card and go buy all these things and decorate your room so you know I love you. You know that's that's the only way

she's ever known to do anything. And and I think it actually draws this really sweet through line later when Peyton is trying to hold steadfast and says, like brooks my best friend. She came over every single day. You realize that from the age of nine, that's actually been the best validation, Like the best version of Brooke is

the person who always shows up when someone's hurting. And and I think that creates the kind of double whammy at the end, Peyton has been trying to be the best version of herself and keeps getting sucked back into this thing. They should have had this wake up call before she went flying into that bedroom. She didn't just remember at the end of I don't sorry, I don't disagree, I'm just friend, there was a lot of a lot

of sloppiness, a lot of a lot of messiness. I mean Peyton leaving her webcam on how about Lucas watching Peyton guys and she signs off the horror the sign off, but you guys, Okay, So instant Messenger for you children out there that we're not alive for that era, Like we don't pretend we were doing our homework. So like senior in high school, we get like a family computer where you can get on instant Messenger and you pretend

to do your homework. But really you were like talking to boys or someone on the other side of the world, some stranger because it was instant message, like you could connect with somebody that you just to make a pen pal. Were you talking to strangers there? For sure? Listen, I was a strange I know, but I didn't get that at the time. I was just like, oh, this is cool, like an instant message, I can just make a pen pal country on the other side of the world that

needed you to funnel some money for them. Oh god, I know right now. Luckily I was smart enough kid not to fall or anything like that. But I printed out is instant message conversations with like certain boys that I liked because it was like, heck, yeah, you wanted to save it. Yeah. Jimmy Caine it's up Jimmy Caine. Um. We had this like fight where he was like you've changed, and I'm like, you've changed, You're mean, blah blah, and then it was like, cool, you want to kiss later? Um,

And I loved that conversation. It's still tucked in a journal, like in my desk right now. Oh yeah. Um. Anyway, that's a tangent. However, what I love is that Peyton signed off of Instant Messenger but left at the web cam on so he could still see her drawing. But she was like, this conversation is done. I have to

stop talking to you. It's actually really funny because I was expecting at the moment of sign off and then when it cuts to Lucas being so wounded because the sign off is a deep cut, I thought the next shot would be Payton like throwing a black hoodie over the computer, and she didn't like just left that. I was like, that's really a choice. She's cruel in that way, you know, And maybe that's what he's attracted to, is that she's unintentionally cruel. So it feels like a challenge.

You know. Brooke is so just nice available. Yeah, Paint's a dick. Sorry, you know it's damage. What are you gonna do? Yeah, I really I get it. He really is waffling. But you're right, you nailed it that he's going back and forth between needing to needing to be with the girl that feels like she loves him. The love is easy, it's available, it's there, and he's just

craving love from a praiseworthy source. And brook is so popular and so sweet and liked, and that I think really draws him in and then going back to feeling like he wants to feel like he's worthy, are capable of helping and being a hero and fixing someone. I almost wonder if that because Nathan has kind of always been the male version of Brooke, right, He's like the most popular kid, He's the captain of the team. She's

the captain of the chur squad. Whatever. I wonder if in a way Lucas wanting Brooks approval is it's almost like she says by being with him, she says, you're worthy, And by by being with Hayden, he gets to feel like he doesn't need to prove that he's worthy, you know what I mean, Like like Brooke approves of him, and that makes him feel like he's popular enough. But then to be with Peyton, it's like he just is.

And then he gets to choose. He gets to be the hero, he gets to be the Nathan or the brook in a way, He's got more control in the Peyton situation for sure. Um, I thought you were going to go in the direction of Haley just cleaned up Nathan's ass, right, And since they've done everything together their whole lives, is he unintentionally mirroring Haley by being with Broke? Is it like, oh, we've done everything together, like we're going to rehab popular kids now, Okay, I guess so interesting.

That's interesting. See what you started Interamn, No, listen, this is this is what I really want to get into because I love the psychology of of two thousand three. The end point we wanted to get to with Haley in this episode of Haley singing is a freaking delight. I love that. But they were like, how do we show that Haley wants to try new things? I know we're going to dress her up real sexy, straighten her

straighten her hair. Yes, we were joking you guys watching the episode because both me and Hillary wear turtle likes at different points. Enjoy you're in that cute like um wrap top neck and we were like, Haley's the last color post just hitting in this episode. Yeah, was that on the page or had you like asked for that? What was the story? Was what part on the page? Part of it getting a sex year wardrobe and the different hair and that stuff. No, I don't think I

did ask for it. I think that was that was their way of kind of giving Haley a reason to to can't come out of her shell a little bit. I mean it was a little on the nose. I feel like I want to try new things, like I don't know, snowboarding or singing, just like a little on the nose. I feel like I feel like we could have drawn that out a little bit more, maybe over a couple episodes, but you know, whatever, it was what it was, and um, I'm happy that I got to

do that. It was a great song and Sarah my blocking song. I loved that album. It was a little low. I wish I had I had brought the key up a little bit. Did you pick that song? No, they picked they well, they gave me a couple of options. They gave me a c D. Somebody gave me a c D in the production office. It was probably Joe handed me a c D and he was like, pick one of these songs. So I joy pick a song

because call me Tomorrow. Um. Yeah, I went down the list and that was one of the ones I liked and it seemed like it was in my register, so yeah, I picked it. In I had fun. I played the piano, so I learned basically we had to play it, and I was really nervous. I was nervous too, saying in front of everyone, and I thought it was cool. I don't know it was cool. I mean in my mind, you sang the whole show. So it's crazy to me

that there was ever a before time. And so watching it like begin is exciting and it feels cool because it was after the mid season finale, like this is when we've come back for the second half of season one, you know, after January, we kind of know what's going on, and it was so exciting because we all knew you saying we knew you came from musical theater and and to begin seeing it in the show. It's funny because having heard you sing now for I mean, my god,

almost twenty years You're right, I was struck. I was like, oh, it's it's like low and quiet, and I was going to ask you if it was a choice for you to drop a little and and start quietly because Hailey was scared because it was her first time. I would love to tell you that that's the answer, because people would love that juicy little detail. But it's totally not.

I just picked the rocky, but it weren't. Maybe you did it subconsciously because you have a bold like you can belt like almost no one I know, and for you to kind of hold it back, I was like, oh, she's playing this sweet little baby. It was nervous for sure, and you know, I think opening up as the song

went on, it was fun. I also don't love my voice in a recording studio, and I'm better live, um and I always have been, and thanks well, I just I feel like I've always felt like I missed my calling and just being in musical theater for my whole life because I'm I just feel like my voice sounds better live. And so every time we would do this show, I would always have to go in the studio and record something and then lip sync, in which I'm kind of terrible at doing. I'm pretty bad lip syncing. I

don't know anyone. And then and then they sink it up on a on the show and it still happens in movies to where they sink it up and it's like just a millisecond off, and I don't understand why they do that, but I wish we had done and I hope one day I still get the chance to do a musical movie where you can actually sing, like what they did in Late Or I just saw Evan Hanson.

I think they did a lot of it there too, where you're you're just actually singing on the set and you've got an earpiece in with the music playing, and you're, you know, singing live, and that's the recording they use. Because I think that sounds great. But wow, I'm on a tangent. Sorry, no, you're not all right. We're gonna put out a call to action right now. Joy doesn't know I'm going to do this. Um, I want someone to start an internet petition that means all of you

for Joy to star in Waitress on Broadway. Yes, my my my business partner at Samuel Sweet Shops. One of the producers. His wife Adrian Shelley wrote and directed the movie. And I want Joy to be the lead in that show so freaking bad, And I know I'm not the only one, So somebody started petition. Y'all passed that thing around because to go see my girlfriend on Broadway. I love that you just said that, because the whole time you were saying that, Joy, I was like, but what's

the Broadway show you want to do? That my question? But I liked that Hillary's like, this is the one you know, so in Oh, that sounds amazing. Yes. Do you remember when we all went and so Wicked? Yeah, Oh my god, it was right around this time. It was when we were going back and forth for MTV and we all went and I don't even remember what theater it was. That it was the original cast, it was Christian channowit and it wasn't just the three of us. We had James, we had Yeah, we had a lot

of cast members. Everybody went and we had those center orchestras. Those seats were unbelievable, amazing. I saw Wicked in San Francisco before they had come to Broadway, because I had read the book and heard they were making a musical out of it. I was so exacted. I was a huge fan of the book, um and Gregory McGuire's previous books, Politically Correct Bedtime Stories, which is hysterical if you've never read it. UM and I fell in love with Wicked.

Then I heard they were making a Broadway show, so I followed it, and then uh, I went to San Francisco to see this preview with Christian Channo, with Nadina and cell And when I got there the performance, Kristen had been in a like a fender bender or some kind of car accident where she was hurt, and she was wearing a neck brace as and she had a grime stone choker around the brace. I mean the scene where she's like supposed to, you know, doing she's popular,

and she's like yeah, tastas. She's like shaking her hair and she's her whole body is just like, oh my god. The audience was dying the fact that she worked in this this neck brace into the character and just didn't didn't. She wasn't like, no, I'm going to stay home and not work. I'm like, she showed us. She showed up and performed even in this neck brace as Glinda and we were. I mean, she is such a pro man,

you guys. I want to admit something to Gus and I live in a Broadway radio when we drive to school, when we drive to the city all the time, as to Maria, and when they play UM changed for good, Like, I think about YouTube every time I hear that song and I cry, and I've taken video of it. Sometimes I'm like, I'm gonna send this to them, and then I chicken out because I'm like, no, I'm being like

two sentimental. I'm being too Like when they sing that duet, I think about the group of us like taking the escalator into the theater, you know, because it's like, you know, right there in the middle of Times Square, and so you take this escalator, and I just think about all of us being so tentative with each other in that first season and where we're at now, and it makes

me we like I feel. I remember that when we were in Wilmington's when the show was so popular, and we had the soundtrack in our cars, and all three of us would sing to each other. We would sing that loathing an adult and loathing, we remember, and Sophia, we would sing popular in the Car's popular? That was it was so good that that was such a good show. Joy, you need to do a show that's a big, huge nodah.

Joy needs to do a show. And I almost feel like at some point, not necessarily next because we still have a lot of our own cast mates to bring in, but yeah, we have nine seasons of this show to watch. I feel like maybe at some point we should do a somber party that's Wicked themed. Let's invite Kristen, Let's invite a Dina like, why not? They are drama queens? Are they ever the James? Oh my god? Okay, wait,

should we start talking about our show again. Let's go back to the kind of genesis of Joy singing in the show. Um, Joy, I've heard you tell the story about how they figured out you were a singer at like conventions, But for the you know, three thousand other people that haven't been to one of our conventions that listen to these podcasts, how did how did they figure that was your button to push? Anyone who spends longer than a day with me will realize that I sing unconsciously,

like I will walk around singing. It's a it's a comfort for me, and I just do it. I think growing up as an only child, there was just some kind of I feel like there's another person there. Maybe that's why I talked to myself so much. Hey, we're finding out all kinds of interesting look at us, So I sing to myself. It's like having a little radio with me and I. You know, it's just a little

habit that I have. And when we were filming one of the scenes on the rooftop, the golf cart golf course rooftop, it was on the top of a parking deck, and uh so I would go down on the second levels. I'm also because I'm an introvert, it's hard for me to stay on set with everyone all day long. And I'll be on set, but then I tend to get really overwhelmed by all the people and I need to go find someplace to be alone, which often drives our p a s and asans crazy because they're like, where

the hell we got eyes on Joy? We got eyes on Joy, So we don't know where Joy is. If there's a piano in the building, she's at the piano. If there's a craft table near the building, she's at the craft table. Safe space. And if there's neither of those things, good luck. She's under a desk somewhere, she's in a corner, look at the corners. I just saw you post a video in a treehouse on your last movie Set's right. I found a tree house perfect way off.

I've learned now to communicate. This is where I'll be. Um. But anyway, I was. I was in the in the Gulf Course parking deck set, and I went down to a lower level and the acoustics are great in parking decks. If you're a singer, you know this, and so I just started singing. I was probably singing Wicked or some great show that was out. Um and uh I E don't get me stored and every story okay, okay, okay. Anyway,

so we parking deck, parking deck, parking deck. So we're in the parking deck and uh, Mark and some other people are driving by on their little golf carts and they pull up and um uh hear me singing and um. And then he asked me when I was on set. He was like, was that was that? Was you singing? Huh? I said yeah. He's like, do you want to sing on the show? And I was like, uh, yeah, I guess, I guess so sure, and me being stupid, I was so stupid and like, is it going to confuse people?

Like maybe I should have two separate careers, and I don't know if I want to like bring my singing into Hollywood, but I'm still a New Yorker and like I feel like a music the theater person and so such an ebo, you know, artist. So I didn't embrace

it as much as I wish I had. But um, I was glad to do it, and we had fun and I'm I'm glad that they wrote that in and it became an interesting thing for Haley as obviously as we went down the line, I got to go on tour and um, write my own stuff and have it on iTunes and it was cool. It's really cool, and I got a recording contract with the Records. I mean, there was a lot of cool stuff came from that. So, yeah,

that was neat. It makes me wonder what they would have done with Haley if the singing thing wasn't there, you know what I mean, integral to who she is totally. Yeah, I really don't know. That would be interesting to find out. I mean, I kind of feel like they didn't really know what to do with Haley, especially watching these last few episodes. I mean, she was like the Whitey of the kids. She chopped in and would like give advice

one of us who wasn't a complete just mess. I Haley is my favorite character watching Everything back because she is what I want girls to be, Like the boundaries, you know, this the security that I think when we were doing the show, I didn't necessarily clock that because we weren't having a conversation about like how girls protect themselves and how you move throughout the world in a way that is open but not you know, you're not pray for people to like pick off. Haley really embodies that.

Like if George goes the Haley root, I'm good with it. That's good stuff. Yeah, man, um, we want to talk

about the Karen Jake connection because that so much. I loved seeing her light up when he said she's my daughter and recognizing a kindred spirit and another kid that she could help out wrote my heart and and and It's interesting what Moira in that scene as Karen was able to convey she didn't say a word, but the way she reacted and then as he was talking, made a face and they stayed on her, like the editors stayed with her, and I almost felt like I could

hear her inner dialogue of oh, you're a single parent too. It was so pure the way she saw him, and then the crib at the end. So Paul was saying, when Paul was on our show last week, and he was saying, what's great about Moira? She's always thinking? And that's so interesting to cut to. As an editor, you want to cut to the person that's thinking, whether they're talking and thinking or just sitting there listening and thinking. And that's when Moira doest. That's perfect example. I liked.

You know, if the idea that Karen has moved through this town, if this cloak of shame, you know, she's like the scarlet letter in town. Hmm. If the freedom that comes with knowing you're not the only one is really helpful. We went through that with the whole me too thing. It's like, wait, I'm not the problem, I'm

not the only one. And so it would be interesting if it were like a high school girl that Karen we're connecting with, like cool story, but the fact that it's a boy that she's already recognized, like, this is a really good kid. I'm hiring him because I think he's a good kid. He's nice to my son, he's good on the basketball team, he's responsible, and oh my god, he did the same thing I did for an adult to get validation from a kid. Is I mean, that's cool.

And I wonder if there's a layer deeper as well. It just strikes me as you're saying this hill because the story, the stereotypical story we always hear, is that a young girl gets pregnant and then gets dumped. And here is a young boy somewhere his girlfriend had a baby, but he's the dad. He stayed. I wonder if there's something underneath it, something unconscious or subconscious that makes Karen love him even more as a as an upstanding young man because he chose to stay and do the work. Baby.

Everybody loves Jake, even like George Clooney, damnite Ryan away from us for a great job. Um okay, Brian, sorry, Brian Greenberg, Jake, God, you call him whatever you want to call him. I can't. He makes everybody flustered, Ladies seeing what is his name? Cute boy with the banks with the banks if anyone wants to message his wife Jamie and tell her how much we love her too. She is the cool just like a really cool wife,

and he's certainly got one. Um. But there was no shortage of greenbird crushes back in the day, for sure. It's really fun though, when you when you can giggle with your friend about how much everyone was in love with him as a kid, and then go, yeah, and you grew up and now we're all kind of in love with your wife. Yeah, well done, dude, done, Jake. Jake calls Karen ms Rowe and then she says, Karen

call me Karen please, and I have this. It's kind of an off topic, off topic question, but did you guys grow up calling adults Mr. And their last name, mrs and their last name or just their first name? So it was like, you know too, Mr Kevin or this was surely you know, like Ms. Laurie, Yeah, because I guess in Texas I was it was always the last name and maybe that was just the circle, but in New Jersey it was definitely always the last name. Oh, Mr and Mr and Mrs you know, Jordan's or whatever

it was. You just never said your first name. Oh my gosh, it would be so disrespectful. But here and now in California, and maybe it's a West Coast thing, Sophia. Don't know how you grew up, but you're it's Maria has two friends that call me miss Lens, and everybody else calls me miss Joy, but I won't. I don't. She has one friend that calls me Joy and I but but I've known her since they she was in kindergarten and I don't know. It doesn't bother me. It's

it's like by their first name. I know, I know, I remember, I will say. And maybe it's because you know, my parents are from you know, the East coast in Canada. I don't know, but it was very you know, Mr, Mrs ms last name. But I had a friend in high school whose parents insisted on being called by their first name, and their kids called them by their first names. Their kids that I went to school with didn't even call them mom and dad. It was a first name.

So it was like it was more business family quirk. Yeah. They were like, you, I'll drive you to school. Yeah. Um, So it's funny because no, I didn't. I didn't really ever do that. But I do see more of that trend that you're talking about, Joy, where you know friends kids, would you know they'll call me miss Sophia. Yeah, And I'm like, it's precious it. I feel like an elementary

school teacher. I love it. Yeah, yeah, it's sweet. I don't like the there's only one girl that I allow her to call me Joy, and it still irks me a little bit much. This little girl. I love her so much, though, and I feel like it's at this point it would be so strange to ask her to be more formal with me. So I'm just like, it's fine, whatever, I love you. Class can't rewrap at present. Like when we were growing up to the other thing that you did was you called people aunt an uncle even though

they weren't your aunt and uncle. Like neighbors were always like, you know, an uncle. Um, yeah, I don't know. You gotta call grown ups grown ups. I was the needy kid that called other people's parents like mom and dad, just to be funny. I'd be like, Dad, I'm home, and they'd be like, oh, Kimmy Gibbler's here, Like, let's get her out of here. I thought it was strange that that she was specifically asking him to call her Karen, but maybe somebody because he's at and dad. She's like,

how old are you, Jake. She's like, it turns out I'm no longer in love with Keith, and I'm on the market. I want you to think of me as miss Karen. I just want you to think of me as Karen. I feel like if Greenberg would have stuck around the show, they would have gone that route with him. I would not have been surprised. I step of the teacher would have loved it. Yeah. You know what's interesting though, I as comical as it is, there is this rift.

You know, we're all now fantasizing about Karen and Jake. It's fine, deserves an asterisk because don't forget. You know, Brian Greenberg was twenty three. This is not an actual high school kid, because you know someone will write that comment. Um, but but we do. We have this big rift with Karen and Keith and god, that's scene at the end. I forgot about this. You know, none of us were in it, so it's not like we would remember filming it.

When Keith is trying to get a bank loan and it's it's the cycle of what keeps people in situations of financial insecurity that we as a society are really having. Now we understand it. We have the transparency, we can

analyze the data. You weren't really doing this then and and watching it now really like, I don't know, guys, it just broke my heart seeing that woman, you know, the actress hired to play the gal at the bank who says, well, your monthly earnings are not that high, and what your mortgage would be doesn't really She essentially said, it doesn't make us feel secure to give you a loan and you just withdrew your life savings. And he says, yeah,

but I had to pay medical bills. My my nephew was in an accident, and she's kind of like sorry. And so many people in our country go through this and go through versions of this, and and like the numbers out there, you know, the staff that gets thrown around a lot now is that the average American is a four hundred dollar emergency away from going bankrupt or becoming homeless. We just saw that during the pandemic. You know, the despair that that comes after rejection, like that impacts

so much of your life. And we're you know we know what's coming up for Keith a little bit. We know that he will spiral, and it's sad to watch the beginning stages of that. It's not fun. And when someone who does have a wonderful work ethic and he does just try to show up and do their best doesn't get the help that they really need and honestly would absolutely deserve. Like, if Keith got that loan, he

would prove that he deserved it. And would he Oh yeah, I mean maybe not because it's a TV show and writers love drama, so they might have torpedoed him anyway. But I realized that right now I'm really needing to Keith as a real person, and I'm like, he absolutely

want to pay them bad guys. I don't know. Keith strikes me as a kind of guy who's not great with money and would have like made some bad choices because he seems like he's constantly running into whatever his demons are that create problems in his life where he can't ever quite get on top of them. I mean, I feel like that's a pattern established with him. Yeah. Yeah, they did definitely put that. They put that hat on him. That was sort of the character which is super real.

I mean, there's a lot of people who don't know how to handle money because they're just afraid of it, especially like talk about dissecting a character. You look at a guy like him who I don't I don't know what his story was growing up with with Dan, which actually, Hi, Georgie, you guys, George has entered the chat. Do you want to say hi to everybody here? Say hey girls, Hi gas, Okay, hi lady. Look at this mop of likewies curl. She's got joy hair. She's got like the big curly joy hair.

Look about break smile to hi baby. Are you gonna be on a TV show? Oh? Yeah? I miss it when their voice, the voices, they're like this. Honestly, she'll make herself we call it her Clint Eastwood stare. She'll just sit in front of the mirror and make herself cry and like squint at herself. And I'm like, girl, get that one right. I remember forget talking about how hard it was to get two tears on set Enjoy.

You were like, well, don't you just do this? And you like showed me this thing and you just held your eyes and then you just had these big tears dripping down your face. And I was like, oh, you dude, are you serious? And you were just like, oh, you have to learn this, And I was like, how who are you your magician? So hey, maybe do you think you sat in front of the mirror like George and practice when you were a little wee. No, I couldn't cry.

I couldn't cry my like almost my entire adolescence in teenage years and the first two years I was, the first year and a half I was on the soap, I absolutely could not mustard tears. It was like I had a huge emotional block. Um I would I would shove. I spent so many years shoving tears down when I was in high school and when I was in middle school because I just didn't want it. I wanted to be tough. I didn't want anybody to ever see me cry.

Sometimes I would let it go if I was totally alone and nobody was around, but otherwise I just got really good at like feeling the emotions come up to about my throat and using my entire body to just shove it all the way back down. And No, it was terrible. And then when I went to act and I was I was trying to perform and cry and do a scene where I was sad or auditionalary thing.

I just could never. I could never cry. I couldn't do it even when I was I did that Stephen King movie when I was god joy, I was so jealous. So there was a scene at the dinner table. I was supposed to cry and I couldn't do it. And I was like, can can we just have somebody stick a pin in my foot under the table while I'm doing this scene so that I can It'll make me tear up? And they did. They actually was like no, like stick me in the foot with the pan, like

stick me and they wouldn't do it like this method. Um, we cannot end without talking about Sophia crying in the mall because you did so good, okay, crying in the mall and then chewing Peyton's asked at the end of the episode Powerhouse Performances, Babe, that mall. We all kind of remembered that mall as being a not fun day at work. Oh, it was so uncomfortable. What was your side? Oh yeah? Oh gosh, um, you pointed, and I was like,

which one? Oh yeah? On my computer screen you're there. I, Um, I just remember I was actually still so nervous because I was like, I don't know how to cry unless I'm really upset, so so the sort of like god, I just think about it. I'm like, what do we do for a living? Just like emotionally manipulate ourselves anyway, Um, but I I was really struggling and I have a hard time, which I really eyes makes my choice of a job super weird. I don't love to be looked at,

especially by strangers. It like it is the thing that creates a lot of social anxiety in me. And I remember that day because I had to sit on that bench in one of the hallways of the mall in Wilmington's and you guys approached from the rotunda where the carousel was, and you like came down towards me, you know, down the hallway and you guys were going to walk up, and it's the whole you know, Brooks crying about Lucas breaking up with her. Hailey realizes that Lucas and Peyton

haven't told Brooke, and she's pissed. Peyton knows she's caught. It's this, It is a true triangle moment. But when the cameras were pointed at me and you guys were on the other side, they couldn't close the mall. They didn't like close the hallways. So by the time we got to my coverage, hundreds of people were behind you guys, just like looking and reaching and pointing and taking pick shures and and I was like, I don't know if I can do this because everybody had called their friends

by by that time. Down here, they're filming one. And it's not that people aren't nice, it's it's just weird to be looked at like a zoo animal. Yeah, And there was no why was there nobody being like like corralling the crowd. We didn't have a lock up. It was season one, and they wanted it to be a scene because they were trying to like convince the network that we were a hit, you know, like that was

on purpose. Yeah, because normally they would lock off a hallway, they would put up some barriers so we could all work in private, and they didn't do that. I think they were like, you know, sending pictures back to l A of like, look how many people showed up? And and I remember years later, you know how nice it would be when we all were working at Karen's and everybody was super cool. I will say, our fans are generally so respectful. People would line up across the street.

We could go over at lunch and take photos and kiss babies and say, hey, this was just so close and we were so I mean, this was my first job, Like I didn't know what I was doing, and I was just so scared and the way it felt to have hundreds of faces staring. I couldn't get there. Oh you did, though eventually I did, and and I will say, it's it's so interesting to realize how much we all

love each other's characters but also our own. Like God, I go hard in the paint for Brooke Davis, and I was just like looking at this little baby girl like sobbing, and I'm like, oh, I feel so bad for her. She just doesn't know. It was so good, such a good scene. It was so raw and real

and vulnerable. And then you know the way you turned it around when you came into Peyton's room, showed up unannounced and just walked in because this girl who lives alone never locks her door, and you walked in her bedroom and just just you just gave it to her and you knew the whole time too. That's what was so interesting. You didn't let her have at the hospital held onto it for like a day or two. Yeah, why didn't Peyton wait for Brooke to like drive her

from the hospital, You know what I mean? Bolt, That was so rude. What's interesting to me though, is because remember in the beginning when when there's the scene with with you guys in the bedroom where Peyton and Lucas are in the bedroom and I was like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, this brook find out him like I didn't remember. I wasn't sure. And when she goes in to check on Lucas and comes out and it's pissed. Yeah, I was like, yeah, she's so pissed.

I was like, oh, she turned around and saw that computer, the computers in the shop when she walks in there and turns around, and I was like, it's the webcamp

and I think there's something really interesting. I'm realizing now this was a great job done by the writers because Peyton has said to Lucas, I'm not going to do this, like this is my history with my best friend since I was nine, and he says that kind of thing where he's like, oh, you know, we're not going to betray her anymore than we have and we're just like

hold the line and again writing everybody relaxed. But the writer just did a thing where they really leaned into the history of these two girls, which I think informed the rage that Brooke comes in the room with because she doesn't go to Lucas and say, Golf, I can't believe you hooked up with my best friend. She's like, you're my best friend and you did this thing behind my back, and like you didn't tell me, and that's

what changes everything. And it's like, oh god, because how hard would it be to tell your best friend that you're in love with their boyfriends? But to Brook, she's like, there's a right and there's a wrong and this was wrong, and oh man, I had to really bring I had to bring a lot of fun, pent up anger into that scene and it was boiling. I have a question about Peyton's hair because you have so no listen, you

have beautiful hair, You've big, beautiful girls. And I we saw them for sure in the pilot and like several times throughout the first few episodes, and I know there was a lot with humidity, but I was just wondering what the like it's it changed so much. It was like I loved the curls in the beginning, and sometimes your natural curl showed up and then sometimes they were um crafted curls, and I just wasn't sure. I never asked, and I was, I don't know. Just encourage me to ask. You.

Peyton's hair goes on the journey, you guys. Uh, this whole game series. Peyton's hair is a journey. And what I love is that Miley Cyrus has that like bleach blond mullet right now and I'm like, it's season two. Invalidates me. No, So the humidity was a big deal. And then doing my hair every single day, every single scene.

You know what you didn't see behind the scenes is there was like a beautane curling iron that in order for my hair to match, they would have to use that bututane curling iron to wrap it after every single setup. But why didn't they just use your natural curl? Because it quit? It quit. They would like you'd put gel in it, or you'd put stuff in it to get it to scrunch up. We didn't have all the nice serums and things that we have now. Back then it was like l A looks gel, you know, and girl,

come on, I'm o g um. It would suck up the humidity straight now and then they'd wrap it and you know, it just started falling out in clumps. Also. God, I was a disaster. Guys. My hair was just like falling out in clumps. Uh, which is fine. You know, you always looked beautiful and you it was just always so it was like I never quite knew what I what I was going to see with your hair, like which hairstyle it was going to be. And I liked those crafted curls. I liked your natural curl. I liked

your cuts. I thought it always you always had something really cooling. I like that short Bob was my favorite. That was a good one. Yeah, it was cute. I did a Bob once. It wasn't good for me. I think I liked your bob so much. And then Victoria Beckham got a Bob and I was like Bob, and then I was like, oh no, I've made a mistake. I've made I've made a terrible mistake, and it's going to take four years. I thought that one I did that,

Bob in season eight, I think I don't hey. Before we get into superlatives, I just want to mention that one line that made us all gasp when Lucas finds out that Dan saved him from Keith and says, what am I supposed to do with this? I feel like that is the overarching message of this whole episode, because it's either Karen saying where am I supposed to? Where am I supposed to put this Peyton with her feelings?

Where am I supposed to put this Brook? You know, like everyone is kind of thinking that same thing, where am I supposed to put this? And she did a good job of delivering that line I felt about for him. There, he really did. And you know what else I liked too, is that he takes that energy of where am I supposed to put this and puts it into his retort when Lucas responds to Karen and says, I don't get it.

Dan does one good thing and you cut him slack, and Keith makes one mistake and you shut him out. That one that cut deep for me too, because you realize where people put their feelings and how they feel them doesn't always make sense. And it is messy. I feel that a lot in my life. Where am I supposed to put this? Where am I supposed to put this? Yeah, I'm curious where Brook's going to put all that anger and the next episode, I'm not scared, Frankly, I'm scared,

I know. And what's Haley going to say? Because Haley has been the one who's who always says what are the two of you doing? And this is the only episode where Haley realizes what's going on in that mall scene, and then we don't hear her give it to someone And I'm like, who is it coming big next week? Because I don't remember, But if it is, I'm excited. It wasn't her place. I think it was just like, well, I'm awkward. Yeah, I can't wait to see what happens

next week. Let's uh spen a wheel. I want to don dune dun dune the joy. We need you to write a song for this, like just a little musical ditty for the real spit Alright, the winners who would marry a celebrity most likely to marry a celebrity. I mean that we shouldn't even do that in real life, because that's weird. Um, it's weird. Let's do which character is most likely to marry a celebrity? Rachel, Right, Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say. It's yeah, any

of the boys we have a girl? Do we have a boy that is most likely to marry a celebrity? Why do I think it's Mouth because he's so freaking lovable, Because he's just the most lovable person. I feel like, you know who would like, like, who's the Oh, I know who would marry celebrity? Jake Jaski and ditch us in season two and then oh my god, I love it. Wait and guys, we have cute listener questions. This week one came, I'm an anonymous fan and I kind of

think Hillary, you nailed it. This person said, what is a song that will randomly play and you immediately think of a scene in One Tree Hill? I feel like it's when the Wicked soundtrack comes on and we think about each other. Yeah, I mean that that soundtrack really hits hard. Guys, those women singing at each other, like, man, we fought a whole bunch, but I love the hell

out of you. Yeah, that's us. Is there is there a song that makes you think of a scene like like joy Now when you hear Sarah McLaughlin, do you think of Season one, Haley? Or is that not a thing? And maybe that's just for me? When I hear that song, I do, Um, yeah, no, I mean some of the other stuff I sang later on, I think I remember the song will randomly play and make me. I mean always the switch the Switchfoot song Dare You to Move? Yeah,

I mean that one always gets me. Um, and of course our theme song, and yeah, no, I think it's that Switchfoot song is the one that really reminds me more than anything else. Do you have one? It's not necessarily just a song, but yeah, very similarly if Darren

to Move comes on. Obviously, any time I hear Gavin, I start to giggle, which is weird for people who are with me who don't necessarily, you know, when you hear a song like playing in the background and no one else has noticed it yet, so I'm just laughing and prepare what I'm like. Do you hear it? Do you hear it? Um? Yeah, I don't know. I think

there are certainly songs that were big deals. I mean, my god, do you guys remember when kid Cutty came and played a trick like that first record he released. I couldn't hear a Kid Cutty song without thinking about all of you. That's not what lasts for me now. But there's always been moments where certain songs have hit on our soundtrack. I would say that Tegan and Sarah

song Don't Confess was one for sure. And then Peyton has a conversation with like Ellie in season three where she talks about the song she hates the most is I think Celebration because it's the song that was playing in the hospital when her mom died, and like, I'm pretty sure that's what it was. And even if it's not, any time I hear that song, I'm like, mom died, Like it ruined the song in real life? Oh my go breaky good time? Come on? No, no, yeah, ruined.

We need to reclaim that song for you, Okay, next slumber party, truly we're having a dance party, all right. Join the questions for you. How much of a hand did you have in Haley's music? Did you write the songs yourself co write or was it something the network handed you and you had to put your vocals to No Ruin on songs. Yeah, some of them were good, some of them were not good. But let me let

me sing him on the shot. Well, I'm curious. I kind of want to piggyback Justin's question here, because you know you said that the first time you sang and you sang the Sarah McLaughlin song. Um, they had given you a CD and they let you pick what you wanted to sing. When did it transition from Haley singing covers of popular songs to you Joy writing music for Haley? Do you remember? I think it was only that one. And then A Halo was something I wrote with Kara

Dea Guarda. Um, Kara Guardy. I always forget which vowel is at the end of her name, but um, she's a wonderful songwriter. And uh, we got together and worked on on that. I mean, she really wrote that song. I think I probably was like in the room and maybe said a couple of things, but that was mostly her. Um and uh. And then after Halo, I just brought

them some of my own stuff. And I was also by then I had a contract with Epic, and so I was doing a lot of my own music there and we were trying to cross some of that over onto the show, and yeah, I think I think it was right after Halo, and then we did Quicksand and there was a couple of others. There was the one

for the USO show, the kind of blue grassy one. Um, I could never quite find my groove, like my niche musically, I was just all over the place because I do love so many different styles of music and I write for so many different genres that, um, it actually became a hindrance because I couldn't just pick a lane. So that's kind of why I think Hayley's music was all over the place too. But then I did We Did We Belong also that Pat Benetar song. So it was

a mix. It was a mixed bag. I mean, some of my stuff, some covers, but they were pretty flexible with me about it. Everybody worked with me and wanted to And then we did the one with Tyler that's right when it starts. Yeah, that's like the biggest one ever. Yeah, it was a mix, all right, you guys. Um next week the first cut is the deepest. Oh my god, it's had the share Crow episode. O God, we all showed up to work that day. Episode sixteen season one. Guys,

we have done fifteen whole episodes together. I love the anniversary. Yeah, I love you guys. Oh my god, we have our learners permit. Thank you so much to the fans for tuning in with us. This has been a really fun ride and I'm excited we have a long road a hit. See you soon. Hi, guys, may Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H. Or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We all about that

high school drama. Girl Drama, Girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride at our comic Girl Cheering for the right drama Queens up girl Fashion, but you'll tough, girl. You can sit with us. Girl Drama Queens, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama Drawn MC Queen's Drama, Queen