Into the Woods and Weed Wackers (Barbara Alyn Woods as Deb Scott) • EP105

interesting stuff happened in this episode. I'm exhaust lots of dramatic Peyton. It really was between the basketball and the and the Peyton like dealing with her intense pain about her mother, and we find out so much about Whitey in this episode. Lucas wanted to change his last name. I mean, there was a lot of moving forward with storylines here. So this episode is when Lucas asked Keith to play with him in the annual father son basketball game,

which I just love. And Dan humiliates Nathan and kind of himself on the court. It's pain himself, really himself more than anyone. Yeah, and really big deal that we should talk about, which is that Peyton marks the anniversary of her mother's death. And this is the famous running

of the Red Lights episode. My favorite part of filming this episode, and no one knows this, is that during all that stuff on the bridge with Chad and with Whitey, there was an old man whose backyard butted up to the bridge and he hated that we were there and he wanted no part of us there and he would just stand in his backyard and would wait for us to yell action, and then he'd start a weed whacker and he would just stand there. He stand there with

the weed whacker going. And I remember just standing the hours with the sun bearing down on us, and we're trying to like make nightfall, and this guy is like wait for it, wait for it action or so we sent to what do you want to go? Tell him? Some people over to him and he would threaten them with the weed whacker like it was a sword. Um. Yeah, So I love that ground telling him the kind of scene that you're trying to film about, like a young

woman getting advice from a grandfatherly figure. Epic. We were being messy. I mean, there's nothing fun about a film production coming into your neighborhood, you know, like you can't just run your errands and they're making noise and there's riff raff looking in your backyard. What if you're trying to bury body? Yeah. Yeah. It's also so interesting to me though that people who want to take a stand like that, and I'm going to I'm going to go

ahead and just be honest. You're being very kind to said Pat old Man, because it's like, dude, we're just doing our jobs and you're I get it, you don't like that we're here. But also, you guys are up on the bridge. You weren't actually even on his street. You were like a full story above where he lived. And and it's so bringing in money for the town. Yeah,

bringing in money for the town, also creating jobs. I will never forget similar situation when when I was working in Illinois and there was this guy who refused to get off his porch, just wouldn't move, and he had been really nasty to a couple of the pas on the show, and I was like, well, let me go talk to him, like, hey, he's also annoyed that we're like, you know, sending over these twenty two year old kids.

To chat with him. He's an older gentleman, and I walked over and I just said, hey, sir, I just I'm I'm the one in the scene tonight and I want to see you know, what's going on? And and can I is there any information I can give you that maybe someone else hasn't given to you. And he goes, I didn't sign off on this, and I didn't okay you to shoot the front of my house. And I said, well, we pulled a permit for the whole street, and that's something we do with the city and it's something our

location department manages, so it is legal. And just so you know, we're you know, all the way at the other end of the block. We can't really even see your house. But you know in the shop you look could you want to be an actor? Yeah? You kind of look like a creepy ghost, just like silhouetted in these lights at the back of the shot, and it's

a little unnerving to people. And you know, it would be cool if you wouldn't mind, since we did work with the city, if you could just not be on the porch and do us a favor because we've got two hundred people out here shooting in the middle of the night and it's cold, and he goes, well, I want five hundred dollars then, and that's when I was like, I'm gonna Sophie is going to be right back, and someone else is going to come talk to you for five minutes. And I just went sir, to put that

in perspective. R P A s make five hundred bucks a week. So if you think that you who is standing here on the porch of a four million dollar town home in the wealthiest part of Chicago, Oh my god, in a suit, by the way, and like a really nice jacket. And I was like, if you think we're going to give you five hundred dollars when that is money that could go to one of the kids who can't afford a warm enough jacket on our set, you're

out of your mind. And then he started screaming, and I was like, well, this has been really fun and see LA really relevant. Well, it just got all of this in our show. But man, oh man, our show

definitely didn't shoot in fancy pants neighborhoods. I think like Brooks House and Nathan's house were in nice neighborhoods, but everything else is in downtown Wilmington's, which is pretty I mean, it's very diverse, and it's certainly not anything you know, high falutin their older homes from like the twenties and thirties. Over with is not a fancy town. That's part of why it's so charming and so special and overall everyone

seemed happy. Everyone seemed happy. But it just goes to show that it definitely was a film town because the honeymoon had worn off. They were like, we've had movies film in here for twenty years. Had John Travolta here you get out? Oh my? You are you crying on the bridge? Lord? Okay, well let's move on to some storyline stuff. So so we have just um, we have okay, Lucas confronting Haley and and the is it the first time we see the golf course on the roof or

do we see that in the last episode. I feel like we saw in the pilot, right, Oh, in the pilot, that's right, But Lucas and Karen it gets bigger every time that we see it. It was like they had fun building that one out with the Christmas lights, and I know, I wish we'd gotten to be up there more. It was so fun up there. I don't know why they didn't continue to have us do a lot of work up there, because it was such a good, unique set.

I hadn't I haven't seen that in TV. And it's not like bogies could come up and throw weed whackers at you. It was a safe space. You weren't gonna get chased around with lawn equipment coming after you with a training here. God, I don't remember when that went away, either, but because I do remember in later seasons filming up on that roof, and there wasn't a mini golf course, and I remember some of us who never got to film on it. We're really sad when it left. But

I can't remember when that was. Yeah, I mean I went up there to throw water balloons with you in season five six, and there wasn't there wasn't a golf course up there. I wonder we got cheated. That's what happened. We got cheated, damn it. Oh yeah, we got cheated.

It's so weird watching this back all these years later, because this is the one like character beat that my son, who's never seen the show ever, like, this is the thing that Gus knows he's like Peyton Sawyer sits in her car and she cries and she runs red lights. And my son knows that about the character and and you know he's eleven. That's just you know, what is visible to someone who hasn't necessarily sat down to watch

the show. And I think this is the beginning of where I just I got really uncomfortable on the show because Hayton became this like garbage bag for horrible things happening, right, but then never ever went to therapy, never like really got help. And so it starts with like her mom dying, and then she's assaulted, and then there are other you know, Ellie dies and there's all these like very traumatic things

happening to a child. And for me, over the years, a lot of people have come up, whether it's at like conventions or just on the street, and they said, I was going through this horrible thing and your character helped me process it. And I'm like I want to feel responsible for that, and like, great, yes, I'm so glad that our TV show could help you through it. But also I wish we had modeled a better response. I wish we had modeled like actually getting help because

You don't just get better on your own. You don't just kiss a boy and wake up the next day and it's all fixed, you know, like there's it's it's long term trauma. And so I don't know, I hope the television now, you know, is doing a better job of like making that acceptable, making it the norm. Peyton absolutely should have been in a therapist office. Absolutely, and

and he'll I hear you on that. It's like, it's really emotional for all of us when people say you represented X and it helped me process why, Like that is a that's an enormous responsibility that we don't take lightly and it and it can be kind of confusing to carry because on the one hand, you're like, I'm I'm honored to have helped you shoulder that, and on the other you're like, I don't know if we did

this well enough. But I will say, you know, in two thousand three, we weren't having conversations like we are

now about mental health. And I think even the fact that the unsaid, you know, the the generally unrepresented, the quote unquote bad or negative was even being given air time that someone's suffering, that it struck me watching you play that those scenes and how beautifully you did, and like I just wanted to hug that little girl, like you just look like such a sweet baby, just crying in that car, and like it broke my heart because you made it so clear that this kid was in

the ocean of grief. And that's what grief is. It's so big, it can feel unending, and it comes in waves.

And I felt for you so much, And then, like the camp counsel, a part of my brain was like, oh no, we modeled running red lights for kids, and when just yeah, and when the three of us were watching Guys and this feels really important to highlight for all of you at home, we were all kind of taken aback because what you don't see, obviously in a show that's edited and made to make you have a yeah, you don't see that on every one of those side streets there were cop cars, barricades, lockups, p a s.

Like we shut the streets down so that you could drive on an empty road through red lights. And it wasn't really, yeah it hurts, don't do this at home. Yeah, And you weren't actually wildly running red lights. That was all set up and it kind of hit us like, oh God, looking back, you go, well, what does that mean? God forbid? We ever encouraged, you know, someone to do that? God forbid? Like I said a couple episodes ago, I encouraged people to get naked and back seats. Please don't

do it. There's me having to make a joke because I'm feeling very emotional and uncomfortable. Ready, just what am I responsible for? But you hit the nail on the head, Hillary with saying that because you have to have characters, have to have laws, they have to have deep moments. And you know, that's what people loved about the show is that they were just feeling their feelings and going

through it. But the fact that we didn't model um taking care of your mental health, of Peyton sitting down with the therapist and somebody walking her through that grief, and the idea for me of my daughter being that age and feeling so much grief that she would put her life in that kind of danger to just like I'm that I'm for clumped. I can I don't know how to process this, but you know it's yeah, it's

heavy for a teen show. I mean it started off about like basketball, you know, and so I think also part of the reason I have since then portrayed myself as such a goober when I'm being Hillary Burton is because Peyton Sawyer was so dark and and so so anguished and sad that I felt like I had to overcompensate, just in real life and in doing interviews even now, I'm always the first person to be like, Okay, this feels like a lot, let's let's get this um, because

I was scared if that, like you said, Sophia, that ocean of grief. UM, I certainly have lost people in real life. I know the people I was thinking about when uh, when we filmed these things and and yeah, there it's heavy. We also talked about when we watched the episode back, how Craig Scheffer dealt with this very same thing of doing a risky behavior in a production. UM in the program. How old we were we in middle school when that came out. We were young, I think,

so we were really young. I didn't even see it until years. I mean, it was like an old movie. Oh it's beautiful, well about a high school football team, right, And I just remember being all over the news. The news was saturated with it because in the movie. These boys had laid down on the road as like it's like a dare or something, and some kids emulated that

and we're killed in real life. And I remember thinking about it, like when we were doing the running the red light thing, just like God, like this is I wish I'd talked to Craig about it. Oh yeah, well they didn't have the placards back then that would come up before the show. You know, this this episode is triggering deals with trauma. You know, please don't emulate the things of characters. Blah blah blah what all that stuff that comes up now. We weren't doing that back then,

So yeah, you're right to be nervous. I think the program might have been one of the reasons that shows started to say we did this with stunt drivers and on closed set. Those placards came up because you know, people used to see something and go oh, they just went out and did that. Now we have a lot more transparency behind how productions work and and even to the point of the conversation, there's more transparency behind and around mental health around I mean the fact that we

can even speak about trauma now. We weren't doing that twenty years ago it was very brown, paper bag, bottom shelf, and and I'm so relieved that we live in a time and in a moment where people are being met where they are and where vulnerability UM is understood to be a strength. Thank you, Burnet Brown. But not that you're listening. But if you are, we love you. You know what I love is that is that Peyton did get um therapy of sorts by talking with Whitey so

much in this episode. And that that grandfatherly figure that again we said, you know, wow, could never happen. You can never have an older male coach spending any time alone with the young female student. It would just be wildly inappropriate UM. And in most cases it is. But I think with the we're on a show and it's all romanticized, the chemistry is loving. Yes, you know the way he talks, I think it's because white he's talking about Camilla. Yeah, it's very sat the creep factor that

might exist in other productions. Whitey so dearly loves his wife and misses her in the same way Peyton misses her mother. UM. And how grandfatherly figure, like a male figure who is positive in her life, I think was also really important it all unmoored. She is though she doesn't have a mom, she doesn't have a dad, she doesn't have a grandma or a grandpa or anybody. She's got to go to the high school basketball coach like this dude, she doesn't know it. Without saying any of that,

it speaks volumes yeah, and and it. It was such a beautiful, I think choice in the story arc of the episode to have Whitey stand in for her dad, you know. And and in a way it felt at least as a viewer like Peyton probably hadn't been able to really process the loss of her mom with her father, but being able to be with Whitey, who had also lost his wife, they could share in it. And sometimes it is a little easier to be more vulnerable with

someone who's not quite as close to you. Um and and him being that that fatherly figure in the episode. There there's so much of this kind of mirroring of father figures in this one with you, with Craig, you know, with with Keith, for Lucas, I mean him saying, Lucas having this question about whether or not he's going to change his name because of what it represents, because of Dan Scott and Keith reminds Lucas that it's his name too, and that it's a thing they share and and that

family can be who you choose. I mean, it's so beautiful. And so you get those two kind of being the best of it, and then you get Dan Scott being absolute like just piggish worst oh, I mean him on the different kind of mental problem, you know, like the grief and the anguish or one thing. And then that you know that that ego, the ego and the and the obsession with the Glory Days can really be so toxic. Like you get great masculinity and whitey and in Keith

and you get true toxic masculinity. And Dan Scott to the two of Paul and Barbara in that scene where he's talking about the Glory Days was probably one of my favorite scenes of the episode because you see why she loved him. He's fun. You can see why she will hate him, Like it's a microcosm of the whole show that one scene. And it's also like kind of foreshadows all the problems that the Scott boys have in

their future relationships. I mean, that moment, the foreshadowing when she and Barbara played it so beautifully because she didn't freak out. You just see it land and she takes a half a breath and says, better than I mean, I don't remember the exact line, but essentially better than now, better than knowing me, knowing your son, and you just go and you said it was different after that pause, good different pause? Oh god, honestly your partners Apparently I

slammed doors every door in es Oh my god. Yeah, no I would. I would leave the room and probably never go back. I don't know that I could handle that. See, everyone assumes I'd scream and yell because Brooke Davis was a good yeller. She could sell it. She could throw a thing really well. I just get really quiet. And the more quiet I get, the more trouble you're in. Yeah, says okay, I'm just gonna go for a walk. There

will be poison in your coffee. And that's such a wake up with no eyebrows, so that you did it to yourself. It's such a good mom tool, by the way. Yeah, the quieter I get, the more Maria is like, what what mom? Mom? What? Guys? Can we just love on deb just more? I love her? Yeah? Such a boss being a boss and a batty dep Scott, I think is the only mom who also wore juicy coutour track suits and fancy lure like we did girls. When she comes on in this episode, in that red juicy outfit,

we all started screaming, we're bringing them back. I mean, I'm not. I'm not opposed to it. I love you have to wear them and the spaghetti strap tank top underneath. Yeah, um, well should we we have? We have an exciting guest today. Um, we can talk to us a lot more about that juicy track suit? Might get in. Where's Barbara Allen Woods? Barbara? Dat d Barbara? Can you hear me? At beautiful? You're so beautiful? You don't age? Holy SMI Hi gorgeous? Hi,

Hi miss you? Are you calling us from a trailer? Are you on set today? What's going on? Where are you? No? I knew this was going to happen. Hi, love you so much. Um. Okay, so this is the first day ever I think that I've sent my daughter off to work alone. Um, she's working. I'm not working today because of you, guys, Thank you so much. Um. No, I'm not working today. While I'm working, I'm doing this this wait where are you guys? What are you working on?

So I'm in Toronto with Ali and we're working on a show together. Tell us everything about the show. We'll

get back on a WRO. I want to know what's going. Okay, So Hillary, you know this about us, So maybe you all do, but you know, our family's way into like horror, the horror genre, horror anything, and um, this opportunity came up for Ali to do this show Chucky, Yes, the puppet, the doll Chucky, and it's you know about his origin story and um, and she plays the mean girl, which she's never done and she was the thrilled to do.

And then when she was cast, the producers came to me and said, you know, hey, you know we need the mean mom and do you want to play her mom? And so yeah, we've been in Toronto since March and we're doing a show together that is such a dream game. And I'm playing the mayor, which is so full circle. Dev should have always been the mayor. Yes, why did

that not happen? So we're having a great time. Oh my god, I just believe he is old enough to be working because one of my favorite favorite memories of Barbara on the show. Was in my last season, and I knew that I was cutting out, and Barbara asked me to drive her to a doctor's appointment while she was pregnant with Olivia, to get her amnio done, and so they like did the whole scan of the belly, and like, I mean, you were so intrigued, you were

so into it. I wanted to questions a lot of questions. It was so special. I felt really honored that you asked me to like drive you and it was such a cool thing because I had never seen a doctor's appointment. I didn't ask you to drive me. I wanted you to be there with me, and it was bonding. It was bonding for us. It was a really special experience. And so then when I got pregnant, like six months later,

I don't know, I called like some Barbara message. I was like, hey, I have a friend who's having a doctor and you were, well, you can tell your friends. Yeah, yeah, it was. It wasn't slick, but it was just such a special It was such a special memory. And so to see all of your girls taking over all of television is just insane. It's so cool. They're the new generation Yeah, they are. They are who you guys were

during One Tree Hill. And that's why I feel like this is such great timing for me, because you know, they're going through a lot of the things that I've been listening to your so proud of all of you. Proud and I love the podcast and I'm learning even more about you guys and the fact that you went through so much and that you were all the picture of confidence. Never once did I ever realize you were having any self doubt at all, even for a second.

And that makes me sad in a way because I feel like if I could go back, I would have my doors were always open, but I would have said to all of you, please come to me. You know I've been around for a while, Please come to me. But you didn't seem like you needed any advice. Yeah. I mean that's just sort of our makeup individually as people. We were, you know, we really wanted to have it all together and we didn't want anybody to know that

we were struggling. And maybe different girls would have, but I know each of us individually where we were all a little stubborn in our own ways and probably just didn't want to. I just didn't want to admit that we didn't know what to do. But your door was always opened. Barbara. I mean, you were the mom that none of us had down there in that environment. You, I mean, my god, you helped me put my cat down.

I remember you came over that day and you were there with me when I had to put my cat down, and I was like, who do I want with me? And I remembered it was just so clear, I need, I need mom, I need Barbara, and you you were that for us in every way. So no, please don't think that we didn't come to you for any reason, that we didn't feel comfortable with you. It was totally just us needing to I don't know, like we were

taking care of it. We were adults, we were totally grand And now I see my daughters being adults, but there your age, and I know they must be going through that same, you know, growing up experience of being alone for the first time. And you know, I have a and Gossip Girl. Emily is doing Gossip Girl. Crazy? Is that so insane? Circle? So she's doing the first season and I compare it to the first season of One Tree Hill. I mean, it's pretty crazy. How life

comes around. You know. Do you feel like it's different for these kids now than it was for us, you know, eighteen years ago. No, I don't think it's different. Um, in terms of just growing up in general, I don't think it's different. But first of all, she's on HBO and so you know that can be a little scary. When she booked the job, she was seventeen, and she thought it was like HBO. Yeah, HBO can be a little scary. You know, it's gossip Girl, so it's gonna

be a lot of you know. Yeah, but she was seventeen. She said, oh, no problem, because they can't have me do anything anyway. Well, then it had quarantine happened and the show got pushed, and so when she started working, Okay, UM, that's hard to figure out what your boundaries are going to be and what I want to allow you know, out there in the public in terms of your body or what situations you want to put yourself in as

an actress. And and it's different for everyone, but it's hard to figure that stuff out when you're young, young woman. And I've told her stories about you guys, and you're you know, your questions and don't be don't ever be afraid to question. And you know, I'm glad that she has me to turn to, but it's also gives me the responsibility of giving her the correct advice, you know.

So yeah, it's some. It's tough for young women. You have always done that for people, though, and it strikes all of us, you know, I mean we we we were saying on our last recording that we're basically just the Barbara Allen Woods fan club because all we're doing is vawning over you in these episodes. And we I think it struck all of us in our own way that we know you to be that woman in life, but we forgot because none of us remembers two thousand three.

My god, we forgot what you were doing on screen and the way that you play Debb. It just feels clear that you brought yourself and your barbed heart to her because she's so wise, and she holds lines for people and does it with tenderness, and and you challenge people to be better and and I don't know you're able to do so much with her, and we we're just we're obsessed with you. Thank you for that. And I say all of that in season one, and then she sort of had a downward spiral. It was such

a crazy arc, so fun, so fun. Well we want to talk, so let's talk a little bit about how First of all, how you got the role of deb Was it just a random audition? Was it? Did you know what I mean? Like, how did that come about? And then also once you were into the part and

you had to be okay. So she's the breadwinner, she's clearly feminist and um in charge of so much in her life and her family's life, and yet balancing this egomaniacal husband who's a giant man child, and you've got a teenage boy and you're like holding everyone's emotions and trying to manage so much. I mean, what was that like? Just tell us about this experience of becoming okay. So, I don't even know if I've ever shared this story,

but um, I was Emily was one. So I have three girls, Um, Emily's the middle, and she was one. I was still nursing her. I was working on a show called American Dreams, and and I had a nice little recurring role. It was perfect because I wanted to be a mom. This was my lifelong dream. I mean, I had audition when it came to my career, but being mom was number one by far, and so I was recurring on It was perfect, perfect blend of being a mom. And I was still nursing. And when I nurse, man,

I mean, you guys have seen me. It was not a pretty sight. I mean like it's like, don't you ask well, like cover of Jugs magazine, you know, like, oh my god. So I'm nursing and I refused to pump because I think that was my excuse to never be away from the baby. So I would have someone bring the baby to the set and everything. So it was it was a lot of work and the last thing I wanted was a full time gig. But then this audition came up for One Tree hill Um and

I turned. I said, I don't have time. I'm working and I don't have time. And then I started reading it over lunch and fell in love with this beautifully written monologue for this character and I couldn't let it go. And it was just, you know, with the captain director being put on tape because the show was already airing and they were going to bring in this character for this small arc. There's no way I could travel. You know, I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna go and do it.

And I just couldn't get Dub out of my mind. I had not even seen the entire script. I just knew that it was beautifully written, this character. And then I heard that I was in the mix, which means being considered. Then I heard that they were going local for the role. Oh interested, I was pissed. I said, I told my agent that I'm going to find a relative who lives near North Carolina and I'm going to be a local. And she said, you can't. You know you can't. I said, no, I'm doing it. I'm going

to do that. And I found a cousin who I had never met, raised them my address and said this is where I'm local. I was within. I think it's two fifty miles or something. I don't know, something crazy, but I you know, I had the address, and they set up a meeting with Paul on the weekend and it's just me and I came in. I read it and it was instant connection. And so they hired me as a guest star local. Oh my god. My couple episodes and um, the Finn Cannons. You remember that. Of

course they were amazing and they helped me out. I think they put me up even though I was a local um. Anybody who doesn't know, the finn Cannons were our local casting directors who were basically situated right there at the studio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so yeah, I mean the rest is history. Then you know, they ended

up keeping the character around. But yeah, so I I love telling actors this story because you know, if you if you know something and instinctually you're thinking this is your thing, just go for it and do what you need to do. So yeah, that's what happened. And then they ended up making her a regular. It's so cool to me how you know, dev is clearly a confident woman.

But then there's also this really sexy element between her and Dan in this episode, because it would be so easy to show like a combative thing, like he's so loathsome that for his wife to come in and be affectionate with him, but also hold him accountable. It's just a really nice duality that not everybody could have pulled off. Barbara, like you handled that, yeah, you know, you see, like I said, the spiral of not only depth but their relationship, I think she does figure out who he truly is.

But um, you know, also the you know, the parallel of the way Nathan treats his girls. Um, you know, there's so many parallels in this show, and I maybe I'm only seeing them for the first time watching the show now. Um, but I think some of that had to do with Paul and I just getting along really well too. I mean, it was easy for me to bring that warmth because I really liked Paul Um and he made me la and I think Dan made Doub laugh and they had history, and um, you know, he

was loving. That was the thing I was wondering at one point we were watching and I said, why did she marry this guy? But you know, when you see him being tender with with Debb in the moment about basketball and then it goes south. But you know you could see a little a little hint of that and he's cute, that's that. Yeah. I'm not even sure I knew how cute he was then. I mean, I know he was always good looking, but I'm watching an outgoing

you're cute. He was the diet cokeman. Come on, Oh my god, you know what struck me joy when you asked that question. It kind of lit up for me. In that scene before he ruins it and you know, says it was different, but when he's talking about his athleticism and giving us the window into why it matters so much to Dan, and he talks about what it felt like and how you know everything would be quiet and it was just the court and he says, I

wish you could have seen it. Something in my brain was like ding ding ding, and it it reminded me of in the last episode when you go to see Karen at the cafe and you say, I know that's your story, but it doesn't have to be ours. I feel like Deb existed in this pocket right after Dan's kind of glory days, but also some of the harm

he did. And there's a tenderness between Deb and Dan that no one else has with him, and and you claim it, but you do it really gently, and it allows for this romance and it allows for you to find him funny. And and then when you kind of throw the gauntlet down, you do it embodied as Deb in this way that is so firm, but it's gentle, and it's it's like some real acrobatics, and I wonder if maybe that slight difference in timing just gave her

a different experience with him that everybody else had. Did they tell you what Deb's backstory was? Yeah? No, No, I don't know. I think I made up a backstory, and I think Paul and I talked about it. You know, it's great working with him because we were all always talking about things like that. But I don't even know to this day if I really know the math of where Karen stopped and where deb took over. I don't know if it was an overlap. I don't know if

she was a rebound. I'm not even sure about that. Um. I mean there was something that Karen found attractive in him too, and um, she even seems a lot more level headed and intelligent than Debb. So what is it with intelligent women who fall into men like this? Um? Isn't that the true? Yeah? I should not be throwing stones and on a glass house, well Payton with Nathan. We're all watching saying, you know, why, why get out of there? You know quick, right? And you know who

knows the heart wants what the heart wants? And well it's also I guess I'm realizing too that Dan Dan has never been in this situation with Lucas. That whole thing is a new threat for him. So maybe this is like a part of him that's coming out that nobody's really seen a lot of before because he's never been in this scenario before. Um Am, I crazy. I feel like I was told that Dead came from money, and so she was so much more powerful and her family was more powerful than Dan, and it was her

family the bankrolled the dealership. Did that end up like becoming Yes, I think that was part of it. I think you're right, because I'm watching this like girlfriends in charge, Like, yes, her daddy is like the boss. So Dan married Dead for money, not even for money, but the allure of like being with a made girl, you know, like Dan, I and see how that would put him in his place because you present yourself like a girl who knows exactly who she is and always has And I'm sure

freshman year in college that was foxy. And and maybe the antip this is to who Karen was at the time, you know, you know, um yeah, and which makes her back to her spiral even more interesting that she started out as strong as she was, and even I forgot you know that many seasons later watching it now, keep pointing to the television because this is where I was watching it. Yeah, I had forgotten how strong she was,

Like what happened to you? And you know even later on she I'm not supposed to talk about later on? Am I? Well we want? Yeah, we'll just we'll have you back later on and talking? What was your relationship with James? Like playing his mom he was seventeen. I instantly loved him. He was just a sweetheart. And what I really and I tell this story a lot too, what I loved about James is he was not afraid to ask questions. Um, he was new, and you know, he wasn't even that new by the time I was

working with him. He had already done the pilot in a few episodes, but if anything came up, he had questions. And look at him now, you know it was all about learning. Um, you know, camera work, Why are we

doing this? Why are you putting that light there? He was always asking questions and came to work so prepared and was so respectful and even sometimes had a hard time joking around with me because he was so respectful, and I was like his mom, you know, and you know he had to talk to me like his mom, and he was so sweet. Yeah, he was seventeen, right,

and a little seventeen. And I remember, I love the story because when he's so tall and when I hugged him, and sometimes I'm a touchy person and I would touch his chest like my baby, you know, my baby be And the network gave me a note called my agent said we want her to stop touching his chest. It's because it just seems a little bit too close for a mom, like, god, I have my son and a headlock at all times. Oh yeah, just like for deb to be touching like his chest, Like, oh my god,

I'm so sorry if I crossed a line. But man, all that makes me think of whoever at the network gave that note. I go, were you never hugged as a child? Are you okay to remember they must only touch men in a sexual way. They recast the guy that played My Dad's season one because they were like, you two were too flirty, and I was like, what I mean? Okay, But so that was something that was really on their radar. I guess, yeah, I guess maybe

because they were all inviting us. That's probably exactly well. I didn't see what you do, what exists, you know what I mean? Yes, I was afraid to go near him after that. You know, I don't want to go too close. That's terrible. What a terrible thing for an actor. You want to be so free and be able to just be an explore and touch and big, tangentle and you. But you were such a you were such a mom behind the scenes as well. And I love, love, love

that you always had your girls in the trailer. Your girls were in the hair naked trailer from the time they were toddlers, which is probably why they're so good at what they do now, because that's why why they wanted to do what they do now. And I don't know if that's good or bad, but that's you know, this is fun. I want to do this. They've worked with so many of us on other projects, too, Like I worked with Emily on Secret Life of bees Um, which one which one of the girls did the movie

with Chad Emily, Emily did, Emily did. Ali just did a movie with with Austin Oh cool, right at the end of Quarantine they worked together. I never worked with Austin, so I got to know him during that movie. Um, Cheryl Lee. Cheryl Lee played Emily's grandmother. Weird full Circle and Cherylene were just like the entire time, and He's like, do you mind? Can I get to know her too? You know, we were just like the entire time. Yeah, I was trying to think Ali worked with Jackson what, Yeah,

like three years on a show they were. Ali was recorring regular and so we saw his family all the time. Um. Peter Kowalski was Natalie's DP on A on a Marvel show. I mean we've had so clostovers. Yeah, I remember Emily coming well, I remember Natalie coming in the trailer and with the first you know, she would just come in with her giant brown eyes and her freckles and they're cute little blonde hair, and she would just smile at you with this beautiful, beaming smile on her face was

like a sunflower. It was just like the sun, the sunlight. I just loved looking at her face looking up at us. And then Emily would come in with her ular. I loved it. I was like, are you mine coming with me? It was so fun for us to barbara that that energy, because you're right, we you know, we were all out there and we were little kids who thought we were supposed to be grown ups. And when you would come in with the kids and we'd all be in the

trailer in the mornings, it really felt like family. It felt like home, like to be sitting, you know, having Jojo do hair and holding one of your kids in our laps and chatting. It was like it was the most kind of Yeah, it was the most wholesome, like safe. There was such a it was such a gift to have your family on set a way with you so truly. Um, you know, when I watched the show, it brings back so many memories of doing the show. It was such

a happy time in my life. You know, hopefully the best is yet to come, who knows, but that decade, I mean, it was just the happiest time, possibly the happiest. And it was because I was on a show I loved, with people I love and character I loved, and then also having my little kids living on the beach, Rightful Beach. There's nothing better than Rightsful Beach. It was just happy. I felt like I must have done something good. Sound of music, Yes, somewhere in my wicked childhood. I must

have done something good. Yeah, um, bringing back the musical as I watched your podcast, um, and we watched Sound of Music. During the hurricane when we all had to hunker it down in hotel rooms, we watched Sound of Music over and over and that's all we did. We watched Son of Music. Maria's school is doing that. That's their next place music. No, I'm like, can I can I take the role of Maria away from high school student? Could I? If you need a baroness, let us love it?

Is she going to be in Barbara? You would be such a good baroness. She's gonna audition? Who does she want to be? She doesn't know yet. We're going to watch the movie and see, I mean she's she. It's a school wide production, so they are going to have, you know, all through high school through kindergarten. So I guess she's ten? Is does that make her she's too old for Gretel Luisa? She's too young for Luisais Luisa she's the one that sticks the frog on the chair?

I think yes. Everyone Holmes like, what so feels like you guys in your musical talk, you want to know what's funny is. I'm like, yeah, we did sound of Music when I was in high school, and I did props everything. I love props. They're still my very favorite thing to do. Hey, where did you hang out in Wilmington? Because you were out at the beach predominantly, right, Yeah, we stayed at the beach the entire time. We ended up.

When we looked like we were going to be around for a while, we bought a house in Landfall, which is also the beach. But um, the first few years we were renting a house on the beach. You know, our owned I think it was like a month or something. Crazy. I mean, I mean that's cheap for being um and you know that's that was like our backyard. You know, the kids could just run out and run through those the brush and the white sand and it was just it was heaven, you know, it was you couldn't ask

for more. Do you have advice for young women? I mean you must, because you you have raised three young women in this industry, and for young artists that are up and coming, or you know, even girls who are successful in this business. You know, what, what are some things that you've experienced and that you feel like, oh man, I wish I had known this when I was starting out. Well that's what you saw us fall into. I don't know.

I mean I do wish that I had had someone, you know, I wish I had had some you know, some sort of mentor. I guess I had to figure it out myself. But um, you know, it's just so important to keep I don't know if you could tell a kid this, keep your head on straight, but you know, to have a solid family, you know, to have a life other than this passion that you have to celebrate

every holiday no matter what. You know, keep the things that are you know, important and things that are tangible, things that um, you can rely on, you know, make sure that you stay close with your family no matter what. UM, your close friends. UM. Just it's just so that it's

not the only important thing in your life. And that's what I've you know, what I've done with my kids is just always you know, no matter how passionate you feel about your career, there are other things too, and so that when it doesn't go your way, used to have these other things. I mean that sounds pretty basic and cliche, but it's not always easy. You know, when when you're driven, when you just want something so badly,

that's all you can see. You can't see straight. Well, I think, especially in a business where what you do can be mistaken for who you are. When you're a performer, you are embodying someone, but it's not you. And it's so important I think for artists to understand that there's who you are and there's what you do right exactly. And it's hard in this business, I think, especially when

you're young, to separate those things. And you know, if you're the tiny yeah, and if you're the kind of young girl, if you were where we were scared to admit there were things we didn't know because we thought we'd get in trouble. You know. Yeah, it's it's important. Yeah, I wish we'd all been better at crawling into your into your more and just cuddle. I wish. I wish it's good advice for any profession though, I mean, having

your touchstones that exist outside of yeah exactly. But I know, like you know, you and I are friends on social media. I think are we Facebook friends? To um? I feel like I've seen you go back to your high school and we've talked about like your hometown, what was like, what was your high school experience? Who were you at sixteen, seventeen years old? I was like everything I was. I think I, at the end, you know, most likely to

you guys are doing. I think I was most likely to do everything, like some stupid award that I got at the end of the year. And I was, you know, a cheerleader and student consul and theater and tennis and I mean I would just try to squeeze in as much as I possibly could. Um. And it was a great experience. And you know, my kids don't go to school, and sometimes I don't to use the word regret, but I wonder, you know, what their experience would have betten.

I mean, they're they're experiencing other things that are amazing, but sometimes I get a little sad that they're not experiencing the high school experience, the college experience. Um, but that's who I was. I was one tree Hill. Yeah you were, Yeah, you were. You were like a mix of all the characters. You were Peyton. But then you were doing theater in Chicago, right, how did you get involved in that? I entered the Miss teen Illinois padget Yes she did? Or aware of these pictures? I need

these photos. I have them, and I won the talent portion, and one of the judges was um, an agent in Chicago, and so I signed with her and I started doing you know, commercials and little roles and a lot of theater in Cargo and stayed there for a while, and then I UM. I went to Northern Illinois, but I

would still audition in Chicago. I would go back. I wanted to go to a college where I could still audition in the big city, and so I did that for a while, and then I moved out to l A. And the theater scene is so good there and all the improv. Did you get into any of that stuff I did? Second City? You're so cool. That's why you were so good to this day. And I was wondering, joy if you feel the same, because well, all of you, all of you infuse comedy and too thinks, and that's

why I love that. I love taking any role and just trying to find the comedy in it or the lightness of it and so people can relate to it. And you know, I'm watching deb At the beginning, she wasn't she was pretty heavy. You know, there wasn't a whole lot of comedy and hopefully after I got to know the writers a little bit more, they thought, you know, we can maybe make her a little goefier and she's gay. You got there and and I liked it so much more. Did you ask for that? Did you have asked them

to proper to give you comedy? I think I just told them how much I loved it. Positive reinforcement. You know, if something came in with a little bit of comedy, I would say, oh I love this, love this, love this. I didn't you know. I wasn't a complainer. I complained about my wardrobe a lot, and it wasn't it wasn't It wasn't appreciated that I ever had anything negative to say. But I wasn't letting up on that wardrobe. Like my pleadd tan pants that you know, at the time, you

guys were all wearing like those low rides. They were so cute at the time, was like, you know, like Mom, Taylor like yes, and here we are watching the episode and I'm like, where are the top of our pants? They owe us eight inches of fabric, so cute. Though you guys could pull it off so cute, they really did. They treated parents on TV very differently. Than than they do now. There was kind of this like unsexy, let's

dump you down. And you had had Nathan when you were like eighteen years old, so you were a young mom. You're playing like years old, which is younger than we are now, you know. So the idea of like like if someone put me in tan slacks, I'd be mortified. It was. It was very beige. Um. You know, I spent my entire adult life being on y A projects when I'm not a y A and I just feel this responsibility. I don't want kids to fast forward through the adult roles, you know, like through the adult scenes.

I want them to find the adults just as interesting. And you don't want to be the stereotypical parent of boring. It's boring. Yeah, And I want flaws and I want you know, I mention and and where does this idea that moms are somehow sterile when I come from like you're a hot mom, I'm into it. You're all hot moms. Oh my god, Sophia and the three hot moms. That's this episode. Like, but like, I I appreciate knowing that you don't have to lose yourself or your romance or

your fire or your humor, because you're right. Back then, they kind of wanted these parents to just be these you know, tent poles of advice and then they'd like scuttle off the side. And you really, you rested your humanity and and and your femininity back from those khaki pants. Also, I think the show needed a Karen, you know, Karen Row, not a Karen but um, but there was already a Karen Row. I mean, let's let's find something out, you know, let's let's let's flow her up a bit, deb And

you know, eventually they figured it out. You know, you didn't need to parents like that. Uma and I loved her at the beginning, but I loved her a lot more later on. What was your favorite We can talk about stuff coming up. What was your favorite favorite? Deb Shenanigan. I loved all of the War of the Roses. Um with Dan, I loved all Um. That was by far my favorite. UM. Karen and I, Moira and I had a night on the billboard on top of the billboard.

Oh that's yes, painting a mustache on Dan. And thatman Cats suit, Oh my god, that was I think it was a juicy suit. Yeah, that's what we're going to send out this year's rap gifts for the podcast Just Juicy. We'll hunt him down on eBay. I have them all of mine. Oh have green wine black, the wine white, and my girls are sealing them all the time. But remember the show the store Oliver, Yes, Yes, okay, this is store in Wilmington's. Yes. And this is what I did.

I would shop there. I would put things on hold, and I told them when our wardrobe person would come in shopping for characters, to push them in her face, in their face, in her face, and say that Barbara was in here and these are the things she really loves. That's genus and sorry. But surely she started picking up a few things and and I remember being told, you've got to let you know, You've got to let the whole wardrobe thing go. But unfortunately that is high level thinking. Basically,

it starts with wardrobe. In your look and your hair. I mean basically, people are watching, that's what they see. Um. Did you have hair wars too? Did you have words over your hair? The style? We all had hair wars. That's hair wars. That's the name of our memoir. I always have hair wars. I am actually pretty happy to hear that you guys had them too, because I had a lot of them. When it came from that the we were always told it came from the network, but

we questioned everything. Now. I think there was maybe one or two people in particular that just had an idea of what they wanted women to look like or girls to look like or whatever. Yeah. I also put my hair up a couple of times, and that was next pretty quick. Um, you feel like I recalled there being an episode if I'm remembering correctly, where you had your hair in a ponytail and a hot tub and you looked great, dangerous. I'm saying, I they you look great

with your hair up. That was with Antoine, which is my favorite storyline. So I guess my dog is like barfing on the rug and my child grew and I'm just like, this is what being a working mom is about. How to do this? You just smile and you power through. That's what I love to do. So yeah, No, Antoine and deb was my favorite chunk of time on the show because I thought it was the right amount of naughty but also like really endearing because you two were

cute together. You're still cute together and his that was the comedy was right there. Man, you guys just so good. So he's so good and his bark is so much worse than his bite. She wait, girl, like yeah, it would be kind of nervous. I had one dress that they rigged because he had to undo my dress in front and so they had to rig it up. So they because it was in the script, you know, and um I was showing up how it works. He's like, oh, you know, okay, that's fine, just like what happened to

the Antoine. I know, like we so respect fowl. And I was I think three weeks after having Ali. Um I was in the pool with my hair up and nursing and topless. Oh my god, barbe and you're a superwoman covering like this with Antoine. And he was so sweet, and I was afraid I was going to get like I'm sorry, this is like I was lactating in the I was gonna get milk in the pool. But he's a dance so he got it. He was so sweet, you know, and then he was hugging me and he's

like I got you. I got your girl, Like no one's going to see anything. And he was so I love him so much. Right after I gave birth to George, I did a movie with Antoine. It was like, I don't know, two months later and I was at that point where like the baby's not sleeping and I also have to be on set and I'm losing my mind, and Antoine would come over to my apartment and just rock my baby, like he knows how to do one arm in a way that like the child falls asleep. Like, yeah,

he's got good dad energy, he's a good dad. Yeah, he's so antoinees. Like I remember I was dealing with like boy drama, and I remember calling him and he would set on the phone with me for like two hours and just talk me through it and here's what you do and here's what you said. Well what happened, and like my little therapist, I love him. You got to kiss all the Cube boys on the show, because you also ended up kissing Craig at some point, right, I was hoping for two seconds, I thought maybe we

were going to end up together. And and I did know that you had a crushed on him Joy, and I didn't know that. I didn't know. I didn't think you ever told me. Maybe you did, but I don't think you did. I just probably I was just fawning over him all the time, like staring long and across the room. I was hoping. I was hoping that it never happened. Um. But we get some of these like deep thought questions that we are supposed to answer, but

I want to know some of yours. Um. One of them was like, if you have a friend coming to town, what experience in Wilmington's would you tell them, Like, you cannot miss this intoshin Oh, we're still there. So right before quarantine, Um, there was a convention there. I don't remember if we were all we were all there together, I don't I don't remember, but it was in Raleigh, I think. But anyway, I went to Wilmington and I spent my birthday in Wilmington's and everybody took me out

to Indoshing and it's so good. It's still good, it's still amazing. But you know, obviously the beach, the beach is like no other. I mean, there's just something special about going to the beach, going to Riceful Beach and hanging East Coast Beach is so warm, so much, so great. And you know, all of my best friends are still there. I accumulated best friends and kept them to this day. Um, we're in Toronto, we're driving back. We're actually gonna stop

in um in Wilmington on the way back. Yeah, and so we're just going to where are you guys? Like? L I L? I wait? How long are you going to be in Toronto? We're here till mid August. I get there in October. Do you do cassing in the night? Just so close? Okay, I have a great place I'm staying. I should tell you about it. This is why our club remains, because we have spirewebbed from Willington all across North America and even further. Um, that's right, sweet, Okay,

So the girls are taking over television. You and Olivia are working on a show right now. What what do you think is the reason? With all this new content out there, people are still drawn to the show. You know, it's funny. I'm watching it now for the first time with Ali, who's thirteen, and she said, just last night, she said, I miss shows a people just talk to

each other. It's a relationship show and there are no you know, special effects or big car chases or you know, she said, I just like watching these people talk to each other and wow, that's a thirteen year old and she and I said, you know, you don't have to watch this, she said, no, I'm last night. When I went to bed, I could hear that she was watching it in her bedroom as she was going to sleep,

And then made me feel so good. Little does she know what I do later on in the episode, and there's binging binge watching now, So it's not like she's gonna have to wait three years to see. She's gonna come downstairs the breakfast one morning and you'll know. Yeah. Um, it's just character driven, you know. And that's what drew me to the show to begin at the beginning. It's just, you know, it's just all about the characters and you know,

just so all of them so well round it. And I don't know, it's hard to find show like that these days. It really is. We need to write one, Yeah, Barbara together again. Listen Christmas movie in Louisiana And we had to the last second, We had to like get somebody to come play the superintendent of all the schools, and they were trying to cast local and I was like, I ain't gonna happen. Ain't gonna happen, and they're like, well, fine, who do you have Hillary. It's like, I've got Barbara

Allen Woods. And she shows up and within thirty seconds of being there, every member of the crew is in love with her. Willie Garson is following her around like a puppy, eating out of the palm of her hand, and they're like, where did you find her? Because it was really this like one dimensional character on paper, and Barbara came in and made her warm and funny and so likable and like the hero of the movie. And everyone was just like, please, please, let's write a whole

movie where she's here the whole time. And it was an almost which is always extra special because we all get super giddy and you know, like he barely make it through. It was fun. You have that special thing that I think Sharon Lawrence also has Barbara, where you walk into a room and it's like, I love Sharon too, and you you you don't walk, you like float, you like glide into the room and everyone stops, and the energy in the room shifts and suddenly you just notice

everybody's kind of at you know, it's true. You, you and Sharon Lawrence have that and it's really amazing to watch what happened. I love her. You know, we know each other because of One Tree Hill and we never even worked together, but we have run into each other and so we really bond over the show even though we never worked together. And she's amazing. Yeah. Should we do most likely to girls? Yeah, Barbara, you're ready for this to Yeah, please do it with that. It can

be a real life cast member of ours or a character. Okay, let's do it. So curious. Yeah, listen for getting advanced here, Kiss and tell most likely to Kiss and Tell. All right, this is a dangerous one. I mean I never kissed anybody on the show. Nobody wanted to kiss me, so it probably would have been me had anyone kissed me. Damn it. I wasn't provided that opportunity. I would have told everybody. Um, yeah, kiss and tell. You know you know who kiss and told in real life, ladies? One

Very Corbin in that bar downtown Charlie Brown's. I can tell you a few Barry Corbin stories. Yes, he's a kiss and tell. Well, he's just yeah, I mean he went forward a few times. Let me just say, how could he not? But you know, we're being public, and I felt a little bit under the table, you know, just like checking it out to see if I was interested, but you know, in a respectful way. I was just crazing the back of your hand, just like would you

like to hold my hand? A little footstee? Okay, yeah, he's how did you This is actually a good a good segue into this question, because, um, I think this happens a lot, especially right now in this modern age. A lot of young women are not sure how to handle if they're being hit on by somebody that maybe they just don't want to go out with or whatever, and it becomes a really scary and like, oh, I'm be I'm at work and and I feel and then

it becomes an hr thing. But I think there is an onus on women to just be able to to say like, oh, I'm so flattered, thank you, but no, and then of course if it continues, it becomes a different issue. But how did how do you handle that? As you know, I've put the fear of God in all of my kids, you know, because that because of all the situations I've been in, and I would never want any of those things to happen to them. And I think they have no trouble saying no. I mean

they just walk away. So cool to see a kid say no. And how do you say no to uh when you're like, like when you're getting hit up, Hey, he's checking it out? Is this? Is this an interesting thing? Like how do you do that where you maintain the friendship in the relationship in a working environment, but you know, still put your boundary up. I don't know. I think it's just more acceptable these days to say no. I don't think that the hitting is going on. Hitting on

is going on as often as it used to. Let's hope it's not. I have a feeling they say no even when people aren't hitting on them, because they're just so afraid they are, you know, I think that they turn them away, like what are you doing? Would you like some coffee? Get you know, go away? Yeah, it's your coffee elsewhere. So yeah, you that was my predicament in the past. You know, I don't want to be on this person's bad side, this person I'm gonna be

working with for the next six months. I don't want them to hate me or take it out on me in any way. So that was like the struggle I always went through, but I just don't see it as much these days, thank god, you know. I just it's also part of the dance of men and women is you know, somebody making an advance to see, like, hey, are you interested, and then the other person says yes or no, and that's just that's the dance. That's what

we do. Yeah. Yeah, I would have kissed and told though, like who would have put out oh deab Yeah, I mean it's obvious. Yeah, And you know what, I did want to say something because I thought about this because I was so respect the fact that you guys were able to say no. What you're young, and you know some of you were, you know, relatively new, but you had no problem saying no, and you you had integrity

and you protected your characters. And I think because of that, my character got more interesting because I think somebody, when they were trying to like spice up the show a little bit, they're like, oh, these girls, you know, they won't do it. Like I'm like, I'll do it. You need someone, Yeah, I'll do gratuitous sex. Yeah. You know, I don't know, you know, like I never volunteered, but I think they saw that maybe I was game. You know, so I had kids, so they know you were putting

out that. Yeah, like I don't know, you know, it's like fourth choice, you know, they would have rather had it be you. It was more age appropriate though, because think about it as like real women, we come into our sexuality not at eighteen, not at it is something that like in your thirties, you are jamming, you know, And so it made more sense for Did to be the leader there. And it was also I think that

when sex is funny, it's less offensive. And I always tried to incorporate like these scenes that sometimes many times crossed the line. If they're funny, they're more acceptable somehow, Yeah, less threatening. Yeah, yeah, that's a good way. From now on, every time I have to do a sex scene, I'm going to take that note make it funny, and I'm gonna make it funny. Make it funny. There'll be a director at some point who's just like, who told you this funny sex? All right? So I did you have

any kiss and tell candidates? Oh? Man? I mean I feel like Brooke Davis was a bit of a kiss and teller, but I but I also feel like it was very too try to be cool, you know, who were yours? Oh? Um, well, Barry, I think is a great? Is actually a really great? I think yeah, Um, you know, my first instinct I was like, is it broke? But actually I don't think it's broke at all. I think she's much more of it's all bravado with Brooke. Yeah, she holds a lot close to her heart, a lot

of private moments. Um, yeah, Antoine, Antoine is definitely he tells a lot. You know what's so funny? Joy I actually had a thought about that, that kind of Brit Davis Bravado based on our conversation from last week when I was watching Uh you do that scene in the Poncho with James and Hilary. We were like, God, it's so sweet and he's kind of flirting and and you're just like really hard to read and you can tell that she's flattered but also wants to hold it in.

And I was like, man, see, Joey actually knew how to be chill around boys. And then there's me who's supposed to be like, you know, the hit cheerleader and like she's really into dudes. And I just watched myself like really overacting because I'm like, is this how people do it. This is how people do it. They make like really big faces and stuff and they're like and I just was like, oh god, yeah, you've been doing something, man,

and you were you were chilled. We learned so much about Brooke because of that, because she she didn't I think that was the doubling down that she would do instead of retreating, which is what Haley did. She just retreated within herself and Brooke was like, I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm just gonna throw everything out there and you know, try and get it right. You know. It's just a different way of handling handling the same emotions.

That's so funny. I love it, Barbara. It makes me so happy and confident to know that your daughters are the next generation of of leaders and role models for young girls out there because I know how you raised your girls. We know how you are and you you did it right. You know, they're beautiful and smart and strong and confident in a way that I wish we'd been. You were. You absolutely were all of those adjectives. I looked up to you guys so much as the adult

on the show. I looked up to you guys. I really did um you were and you are now such amazing role models to my girls and we all follow everything you do. And it's just you know, I'm just you know, as the mom on One Tree Hill. I'm so proud of all three of you for you. Thanks. We have to get back to Wrightsville Beach like soon. Yeah, yeah, for sure, to see you in person. And I want to see baby. I want to see all your babies and oh my god, they no, they're not babies anymore.

But I want to see everybody. Need a reunion. We do. Maybe when you get home from Toronto, before I go to Toronto, we'll steal Hillary from the East Coast and we'll still do it sleep oversh my god, that's it. We have to Joy. Joy always wanted to have tea parties. She's like, what do you want to do, So we'll do a tea party down. I still do tea parties. We love you so much. Back spirals, you're coming back. I want to come back for the with I want to come back with Antoine. I'll talk about it. We'll

see what we're going to do it. Yes, I love that idea. Love you, Thanks for having Thank you. Thanks to the gals. I will bye by Wow. I love her guys. Barbara Allan Woods. She brings me energy, everything, everything, And you know, Barbara really does remind me that we get to own it all. We get to own our professionalism and our intellect and are funny and are silly and are sexy. And she's such an incredible example just by being that you can be so fully embodied. I mean,

what a role model. Yeah, and I agree that she. I'm so scared of this industry for my kids because I had such a wonky experience with it, and Barbara did the opposite. Barbara was like, we're not going to be scared. We're going to own it, you know. And and has kept her girls really safe. I mean, Barbara committed to being on set with all three of her girls like at the same time. She's a superhuman. I don't know how she did it, um, but they're just

you can tell their dad is an assistant director. They know how to show up and they know what's up. Yeah, it's it's it's the I mean, it does make me scared. Maria is It is actually a really good little actress, um, and she's got good instincts and but she does theater right now, because to me, theater is a team sport. But you know, film for kids can is really as so many of you know. It doesn't take a genius to take a look around and see all the kids that have gone off the rails because they up in

this business. But Barbara has Um managed to do an amazing job with her girls. They're all such good, solid people and smart and stick up for themselves and they're professional and it gives me hope. It's pretty cool. Hey, welcome back. Okay, we have some listener questions. Okay from Brianna. In episode five, on the anniversary of Peyton's mom's death, why does Brook seems so unaware of their best friends? And I just feel like she had no idea what

day it was. So I'm hoping you guys will talk about it and when you get to that episode, hopefully it was a production error. I just feel like Brooke is so much better than that, and you know, how did she not realize about this important day for her best friend? So talk tell us about that, you know, to listen, listen, listen. We have to also keep in mind this was two thousand three, right, so this is like pre spook reminders. This is pre iPhone with Google

calendar and things like that. Liked, we were still using paper calendars on our walls. You weren't going to write that out in your school planner, you know, like, it's not It was just a different time. And I think remembering things like that are much easier now. Um, yeah, we have constant reminders now. But also, I don't know that the writers when we started the show understood the depth of our character's chemistry. You know, that we really were a love story. Yeah, they didn't for sure, And

I do think that. First of all, thank you for that, because as soon as Joy read this question, I wanted to barrow from It was always a thing that upset me. Well, I didn't come here, we did. That's true. Baby is sick, oh man, But no, it's very true. But I think, um, this is really indicative. When you guys have heard us talk about the ways that we went to bat for our characters and fought for them to be more wholly represented and complete young women and women, this is exactly it.

We were really still five episodes in, although you know, Peyton had this incredible storyline about grief that I think was the most adult thing we had done on the show so far, we were still kind of being treated as these secondary characters. It was two boys. They were the stars. It was about basketball, and we were the girls, and we'd be used where they needed us, and especially with Brook, you know, because I was added in an episode one, they were like captain of the cheer squad, like, well,

she's that stereotype. And and these were the kinds of things that we would bring to the table over and over and over again and say it wouldn't be like this, girls wouldn't miss this, we would never ignore this. And

you know, Wolf, it was brutal at times. And also, let's be honest to hear like, well, well this is not really the point of the episode, and it's like, oh okay, well, but it was like it was a fight all you know, the whole time, because like when Brooke got beat up and Peyton's like, oh you throw on the stairs. You know, like there's certain things that you can only fight so many fights, especially when you're you know, it's season one and you're brand new, and

there are things that's a really good point. There are things that are required for us as performers to suspend disbelief to service the story, like when that happened to Brooke and Peyton had to go, Oh my god, honey, like what a horrible fall you took, Because if you'd known, then we wouldn't have had the drama of the episode.

If Brooke had been there for Peyton in the way that I would think she would have been, Peyton wouldn't have been alone for the whole episode crying in her are so sometimes it somewhere to go, but you know, I mean, every gives your character somewhere to go. So it was it worked in that way. Well, the redemption so much sweeter, you know, like then when Brooks shows up,

you know, it just the yeah, the redemption. But it would have been so nice to see you guys connect in that way in real life when things ever went south, we were all hugging and kissing, you know. I mean, I will say, because this is now the second time I've thought of it Um in reference to this, because because this is about grief and so much of you know, so many of the big moments in this episode happened

on the Quad. I'll never forget Um shooting at school one day on the Quad, and it was a day my grandfather died and Hillary, you were the person like you. I got the call from my mom and you just like I didn't know I was falling but until I realized you'd caught me. And like we went through that stuff in that school, like in those places together all of us, Like our real grief are real loss, like you lost people. I mean we lost when you were

the first person I saw. You know, we were so blessed to be there for each other in in life and that is something I cherish that we got it right behind the time when we didn't get it right all of the times. Um, you know on camera, Yeah, it's it's nice when you feel like it's real. And I think that's why the audience wants to know, like, ah, how could this be? But um, the real stuff was real.

So if if you were feeling like, oh, this relationship deserved more, just know that it did exist, just like off camera. Um. Yeah. And that kind of leads into the next question that we have um with Mackenzie wants to know if I kept any of the albums that Peyton had in her room and like, maybe this is a tough subject because no, Um, when I left the show,

it was kind of unceremonious. I after the fact somebody snuck me Ellie's leather jacket our costume or knew that that was something that would mean a lot to me and it was never gonna be seen again, and so she passed it like through a secret channel of people to get to me. Um, but the only things I have from the show are things that so stole when the show ended and mailed to me. She was like, I have a box that was even Peyton never came back.

The real life relationship behind the lens is what you guys hoped it would be, you know, like, yes, my best friend stole my stuff. I mean, I remember that was so hard. You know, you even referenced Brooks wedding like joy and I were like, this feels weird, but you gotta you gotta like do it. And and I think there was obviously there was such a saving grace for us in in getting to have the safety of of Brooke and Haley after all those years. But oh man,

I mean this is a fast forward. But I remember the end of the show, when we were filming the Tree Hill movie and when we built Peyton's room, and you know, the bookshelves, the records. It had all been in storage. That's something that the audience may not know to like guys, they keep everything in boxes and it's cataloged, and like they break the sets down and they literally pack up buildings in storage containers and yeah, like that,

it's all somewhere. And I walked into you know, Peyton's room with the records, and I just starting and I was like, this is really weird. I'm feeling very emotional. I grew up in this room on television and also in real life. Um, but yeah, it was a trip and that that was kind of when when we were like getting into the last two weeks, I just started

stealing stuff to people. I was like, I'm gonna take this, you know, because I was like I was like, I know, these things are just gonna go like in a storage container and no one's ever going to see them again. And I don't like that. I'm too sentimental. I feel like a lot of our stuff got sold in auctions and things like that. So if anybody has like my old clothes, like, I'll buy him back. I'm not weird

stuff back. I kind of like that. Yeah, Joy, we have a question from Carla, she wants to know that cracker Jack bracelet from Hayley's first tutorin SI with Nathan, did you need to keep it? So I'm going to ruin I'm going to burst the bubble, like I don't want to ruin fantasy with them. I'm like, there's a story here. No, it's not a real want to make something else. It's actually so non exciting. The prop department had like a giant plastic bag full of these bracelets,

and there wasn't so there wasn't just one. It was like plastic bag. He would give them out to like extras and people who were like, oh I want one, I on one. So the actual original one that he put on my wrist just went right back into a plastic bag. So somebody out there has the actual original one, but there's no way we would ever know which one. Did you get to keep any Yeah? I have one, Yes, yes I do, but it was just a random one

from a plastic bag, you know. So the sentiment is nice to though, because like now every girl who has one is looking at her wrist like this could be the way. Yeah, oh I love that. Wait wait, and and Carla has a sort of part two of her question, which I don't think I know the answer to about you either. Joy. Were you ever a tutor in high school? No, you didn't. You didn't tear horrible in school? No did you really? I would have said that you were like the straight a girl. No, No, I was. I was

bess at best. If I ever got an a was like throw her a party. I mean, no, I just don't know. I don't learn well in classroom environments. Now. Whenever I was on set and I had a personal teacher, and I would fly through my curriculum and I would do really really well because I had one on one and somebody that could work with my My brain learns um and processes information in a way that's just not

conducive with the public school um system. In the classroom environment, I asked a lot of questions because my brain kind of works. Were like, it's not enough for me to just know what the answer is. I need to know why that's the answer, and I need so that I can understand. Don't don't just tell me that if I put the toast in and I click it down, it's going to heat it. Why is it heating it? How does that work? I need to understand, and teachers don't

have time for that. So I could never just learn the answer and then copy it down. My memory wouldn't hold things like that, So I did pretty badly in school. To be honest, do you guys have a weird short term memory thing? I'm doing TV for as long as we did, because whoa. I've realized that when you get trained to learn ten pages of dialogue a day and then forget it and learn ten more the next day. Man, sometimes I'm like, what happened? There's a story, it was

my birthday. Start start the story, and if someone gets four lines in then it's exactly like the reaction you had watching the scene on the bridge. I'm like, oh, I know this dialog, I know this, I remember. I remember every word of the scene with Lucas. It was the weirdest feeling to watch that scene back and be like, oh my god, was it maybe my audition seat. There's no way that scene was written when I auditioned. I don't know why. It's just it's like stapled to my brain.

I know every single one of those words. I could do that same tomorrow. It's just because you had to do it over a weed whacker and over and over. Yeah, you know what it was, the trauma of the weed whacker. It just cemented it. Yeah. Um, so though you, you were different because you can read a book and remember what was in the book and have intelligent conversations about it long after you've you've read it. I remember this about you. I can't. I mean, I can process information. Yeah,

but you like you remember? That's really kind. I so this is this can be a conundrum. This is really good for me as an advocate. I can rattle off social science data till I'm blue in the face. But when I tell you, I do not know my mother's cell phone number, I don't know. I know the first three digits, but I don't. I don't know it. I

just don't. There are basic things I cannot remember. But I can tell you a quote from some Dutch report on gender pay parody from I don't know why I'm like this, And sometimes I look at people I love and I'm like, I'm so sorry, thank you for loving me. Um, I don't know. I don't know what that is. Okay, So we have a huge episode next week. What's next week? It's episode six. Every night is another story. Oh that's a good party. I think it's the party, wait, the

beach house party. It might be the fancy house party, like dresses and suits, the one where I had to rip Chad's shirt off. I don't remember any of this red solo cups. Yeah it was. It was a tough one, man. I have no idea. I guess you guys all guess we're all good old find out next week. We have a question. Alright, So you guys have to watch the episode because we're watching the episode. Um, and in the meantime, tell all your friends because we're having a great time here.

We love it, And thank you guys for your questions. These are so just lovely and thoughtful and sentimental and they mean a lot. So if you are feeling some overwhelming feelings like Peyton in this episode, there is no shame in asking for help. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is one eight hundred two seven three eight to five five. Help is there. There are people that love you and care about you, and so we want you to to stay healthy. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave

us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at drama queens o t h or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We are all about that high school drama Girl, Drama Girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic Girl Cheering for the right Drama Queens Dreelise my girl, up girl fashion, but your tough girl, you could sit with us Girl Drama Queens, Drama Queens, Drama Queen's Drama draw MC Queen's Drama Queens