If the Shoe Fits • EP508

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I loved this episode, you guys, I'm I am emotionally exhausted.

Now all these years later, you're still exhausted.

I feel every feeling.

Yeah, there's a lot of crying.

Yeah, it's a lot of crying.

It's never trying this episode.

God, but yeah, every cell in my body still feels all of it.

Pathetic.

Wow, this was big, Yeah, they really. There was just so many untied things in the episode before and there's still a lot of untied things.

But it was nice.

How sometimes I've seen them, we've seen them do episodes where it's like they're drawing something out and it's not. They're not solving anything for us yet, but it still feels really boring. This one they did a really nice job on because every piece of it felt interesting.

Everybody's dealing with a different catastrophe.

Yeah, this was such a good episode. Season five, episode eight, Please please please let me get what I want. Give him the synopsis, ladies, because it is gorgeous.

Gorgeous air date February nineteen, two thousand and eight. Peyton admits her true feelings to Lucas, Brooke makes a play for Owen, and Marvin tries to convince Milicent he's a He's a better man than what she thinks he is. So Haley wrestles with whether or not to reveal the information that could ruin Lucas's relationship, and Nathan is put in a position that could end his whole marriage. Oh you think Yeah, And Lucas and Antoine face the coaching

Like such a happy, happy, gorgeous love story. By the way, Mike and Mikayla got married. Brendan kersh Our basketball coach who is also in this episode, and Lisa Goldstein, who plays Alison got married. We had so much.

There was real love, yes, cross pollination.

Yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous you know love that came out of this season in particular, My good ness, what an episode.

I just hope that Mike and Michayla's real engagement was better than this one, because s I mean, but and to his credit, he took like a sucky thing and like gave everybody really good words. And so by the end of that journey of the engagement, it's like, oh God, thank god these tour together, you know what I mean. Like I was feeling like, oh, thank god, they work this out until Peyton knocks on the door and I have to snap back into reality and be.

Like, oh nuts, I forgot what side I was on. Yep, I mean half.

I mean the first act was all like recap, Yeah, were we saving money still?

Yeah? Probably. But it's amazing that Mike.

It just shows it a great writer Mike is, because it's amazing that he was able to take an episode that was full of recap and kind of several of the same type of scenes over and over and over again. I mean, especially for Peyton and Lucas.

Oh god, do you know what I mean?

Like, you guys were the same conversation but like six different ways, and the fact that he made that so good.

He's this is.

Why people are bringing Mike Daniels into write and run their shows, because he's brilliant.

Yeah. I mean, he's so so good, and you know, to the point of when you take a situation that can be so uncomfortable.

I e.

I was doing a media to get my mind off of how angry who hides a ring in a sock drawer? Like you're like, oh, everything is so bad. This is bad, bad, bad bad, And somehow, through the tears and the fight and that I'm done feeling like I'm not good enough it, it does turn into a proposal that you're rooting for. And I had a moment while we were watching it where I was like, I hate this for her, but I want this to work.

Like yeah, because when she smiled, it was real, like.

She's so good.

When she's like crying, she's so happy. Yeah, he finally asks, Oh my god, Lindsay is just so good.

I literally wrote down the joy on her face. This is played so well.

Yeah, it worked, and somehow I was I was trying to justify I was like, I guess when.

You're a kid.

You can be confused in your ex girlfriend who you love and you kiss her back, but then you see the woman you love and you're just like, I gotta throw myself into this so that I don't go down a trail that I don't want to go down. And like my brain was running through all the justifications of is this okay. It's not like it's not okay, but I kind of wanted it to be okay because I think there's so much chemistry between the two of them. Yeah, and the emotions were just so real.

Let's talk about the Lucas stuff because we all were like, oh God, wrong thing to say, because he does the same thing to Lindsay that he does to Peyton. Remember with Payton, he was like, you don't think I can make it right. That's why you don't want to marry me because you didn't think I could do it, you know.

And then with Lindsay, he's like.

I was waiting until I knew I had a second book in me because I know you don't want to be married to just the small town basketball coach.

Like there is a nerve there and not saying it's.

A bad thing, but boyfriend has a soft spot and don't hit it.

It's a bruise.

Well, he has such intense imposter syndrome. Yeah, and you know so many artists do that. It has a name, right, like impossible is a term, is a thing? Yeah, you know, But I I wonder like, is that his sort of like I kind of want to roll my eyes at it and go okay? Is that the writer is being annoying being like, oh, the tortured artist, Matt, Matt, Like the best artists are actually, you know, people who go to therapy and deal with their But people think like,

To be a mess.

And and part of me goes, is that writers romanticizing a tortured artist? Or is it what's striking me in this moment? Is it a really interesting thing for the brother who grew up on the quote unquote wrong side of the tracks, who who's you know, single mom struggled for his whole life is a fair interesting thing for Lucas as a character to have this suffering tortured artist persona because his brother, granted yes, suffered in an injury,

I mean it's economic anxiety, absolutely tracks.

Would you grow up a poor kid? Man?

It? I get butt hurt about stuff like I hate fashion. I hate fashion because my whole life I got made fun of for wearing hand me down clothes and high waters. Oh those bitches at school made so much fun of me for in high water jeans because I would grow out of them so fast, And I just as an adult tense up about that shit. And so I can understand Lucas Scott being the kid who came from less

Knowing he's gonna want to provide for a family and like not have Lindsay have to carry the financial burden the way that he saw his mom carry that burden. I think that's got to be a trigger point for him too, wanting to be able to also contribute to a household.

Well, I do like Lucas and Lindsay together. In a world where Peyton Sawyer's back with Jake Jigelski, they would have lived happily ever after and like had beautiful little bookie babies and like they'd have been great.

Yeah.

They they really are good together.

Yeah.

Oh and Mikayla's just so fun. You know, she's a good actress, but she's also just fun on set. When Peyton knocks at the door, she's so happy, like she can't wait to show paint that ring she holds it up.

Oh yeah, in my notes, which are all like the quotes and the things so we can talk about them, just all in caps. And then Peyton, it's the one row of caps in my whole note section. Oh boy, dude, you you coming to apologize, oh my god, for what you did because he still loves you. And then her holding up a ring.

I can't even look at you.

I'm so uncomfortable.

Well, and Lucas looks like such a hangdog.

You know. If he was into what he was doing, he would do like what Nathan does and give like a really firm like like just smile at Peyton. And be like, hey, this is my life, Like, make eye contact, own it. Have a nonverbal connection there. Instead, he's just like dodging her and look at real shifty.

He's just being a little boy, my guy, not ready to take responsibility for many things.

Why didn't he just say it's the ring that Keith gave to Karen, like a, it's a family heirloom. It's not it's Keith's ring. Yeah, why didn't he say that? Because he's complicated it's not hard?

Well why?

Yeah?

There is also something about being twenty one.

And it's how to get married so bad.

It happens in the moment. Y'all are nodding, and I'm nodding because we all did it. Yeah, it happens in the moment, and you go, well, trains leaving the station, I better get on it.

Yeah.

You think you have so much time when you're young that you're like things will magically work themselves out. It's all gonna be fine.

You also do this thing where you go, oh, if the scene from the movie is happening to me, it's happening, so it must be meaningful. We assign, oh, if it's happening, it's because it's supposed to rather, how do I feel about this? What do I want?

Is this?

Right?

Like you?

It's very easy at twenty one to go, well, here we are, so I'm gonna I'm gonna go with the flow. Yeah, and that's the thing that we certainly didn't unlearn. So how did we expect our characters to unlearn it?

Hailey figured it out.

She's the only one asking questions and just being like, what is happening here?

The thing that kills me and that Mike wrote so beautifully is that Haley's asking all these questions of her friends and doesn't know to ask questions in her own house.

Yeah.

Oh, it makes what's happening in her house all the more upsetting when it makes it insidious forget what you saw, let it go, when all these things because she's going, well, I'm good, it's like, yeah, it's what you just showed us. Hillary. It's like the person who doesn't see the guy in the window.

Who is that?

Yeah? I mean I like that Hailey wakes up like her and Nathan went to bed not so great, And I like that moment of like rolling over and just checking in with each other.

It did make me wonder though, when he was saying it's not your place to tell Lindsey. What like, let's take a poll, what do you think do you think Haley should tell Lindsay No.

I thought Haley did absolutely the right thing and go to Lucas and be like, yeah, you're gonna fix.

This Lucas first. Oh for sure.

Yeah that's what I thought too.

I agree you start there, but I'm throwing a yellow card on the soccer field ladies. I hate this thing of it's not your place, don't get involved. I disagree.

What's your friend though?

Well that's it.

Everybody will do the thing where they say no, no, it's not your place, and then you know what happens is everyone in your life says, well, it's not my place, it's not my place. It's not my place.

Place, is it.

Yeah, that's it.

It's why a car accident can happen and forty people can be standing on the sidewalk going oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, and no one calls nine one one until one person points and says, you call nine one one.

You do this.

People need a directive. And I will say that I think this notion that you shouldn't get involved is not cool, because it's what allows people who are dishonest and shy to their partners to get away with it.

Yeah, I mean that's I think if it were it was like JOHNK and Fergie and those guys like talking to Lucas saying, hy Man, that's not cool. He might brush that off, but Hey is his lifelong best friend and just cuts.

Through the with a quickness.

Yeah, that's what. That's the whole reason you have friends.

Like, sure, you're gonna people to like hang out with, but there's supposed to be people in your life that will call you on things and who're gonna step up and if you're in danger, they're gonna jump in for you and say like, hello, you're in danger. I gotta tell you something.

And that's what you need is for people who say I love you enough to tell you that what you're doing is fucked.

Wait are you calling Peyton danger because that sounds fun for me? In danger? You're in danger.

Run you're in danger, baby.

Yeah.

I thought Haley, like I was hoping that she would go to Lucas first and not not go to Lindsay first, because that's her, that's her first priority in the friendship. That's just been a part of for a long time. But she doesn't even get a minute yeah, I mean after a minute, Like if Lucas really continued on down that road and never told Lindsay, I don't know what

I mean no, But that's the move.

Right, Like if you were put in that position, that's the move.

It has to be.

Yeah, right, y'all listen.

I'm a huge vander Pump Rules fan, and so I have had my fill of cheating this season. It's if you don't watch the show, it means nothing to you. But if you watch this terrible reality show, you're.

Like, dh San Deval's the devil.

Because he cheated on Arihanna And so I'm more worked up about these strangers.

So what's wild? Is I don't watch it. But my friend Elizabeth, who has a phenomenal podcast, did a whole episode about this, and I was like, I'm watching your stuff, tell me what happened. So I had her tell me about it. And then because you and Jeff watch it. And I have two friends, like two of my best friends, one in LA and one and you two in New York, who are obsessed with this ship. So all the Instagram

Was at a funeral.

I know all this, and I have never seen one episode of a Real Housewives or a vander Pump. I don't know if they're associated. I feel like she's on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Maybe I don't know. Okay, she is great. I know so much about this, against my will.

I'm so glad we could give that to you. Oh, against my will.

But now that I know, I'm invested, because here's the deal.

It always gets exposed, right, it always gets exposed down the line. And what I learned from the Reunion special is that if you're on the side of keeping secrets for someone, you look like an apple on expose day, and so don't hide shit for your friends. Don't be an enabler. If something happens like once, like this Lucas Peyton thing in the office, Yeah, I don't know if I even consider that cheating. To be perfectly honest, that is a trauma bond that has a lot of.

Like you are a nicer person than I am.

I'm also the bitch kissing him, So that's true.

You're making an excuse for your character. I get that. I'm like, let me tell you what, if my partner made out with some I'd be like, I'm I'm gonna have to kill her.

We gotta fight.

One of you has to die, like it's Gladiator times. Who pick.

I know, it's super it's super easy. When it's fiction, it's really easy because we know these kids.

We've watched him since they were little. They're just they're just sorting it out. But when it's strangers on a reality show, I'm like, he's gotta die.

But that's also remember we talked about that a while back. How you can excuse and humanize and have empathy for bad behavior on behalf of people you know and love. Even if you have the characters you know in love with strangers, we're just ready to like light them on fire.

Who's worse in this week's episode Nathan, who's hiding some from his wife. Oh boy, are Lucas and Peyton who are clearly headed down a dangerous path?

Y'all?

It's bad Nanny Carey being like, you have pain on your face, oh, on your nyelids.

And we can see that it's not it's.

Not just it's so right outside of his son's bedroom, where he could have just gotten up for a second and poked his head out in the hallway and been like I have to go to the bathroom or whatever. It's just it's amazing to me, amazing, And I really don't understand why Nathan seemed so confused. He just stood there looking really confused, And it's so not confusing to me.

Did it make you mad to watch Joy?

Ye? Obviously, I'm still in my patent body, like in your Hailey body.

You're like, I'm gonna murder them?

Yes?

Made me mad, Like stand up for your family, damn it?

Yeah? Push her down the stairs. Sure, push her away.

And then put her in a taxi. Tell her to pack her bags and put her in a taxi. You need to leave tonight.

Then the fact that you guys have that scene in the kitchen. Yeah, And what I thought they did well in the edit was when he looks for you, you're looking at something you're like in the fridge, and then you're doing something on the kitchen island, and it feels like a misconnection.

But my god, like he was like waiting to tell me as soon as I came in. He was standing at the counter like, yes, I gotta figure out how to say this. I gotta figure how to say it. And then Haley says the one thing that gives him an out, some secrets are better left and said.

I loved it when you guys were in bed and You're like, I saw Lucas kiss Clayton and he said.

Oh, maybe it was just a friendly kid.

And so when when Nanny Caries like doing the fake paint, and I'm like.

Maybe this is just a friendly kid. Maybe.

But it's also interesting that in that scene with you guys, he says it's not your place. He needs to be man enough to tell her, and then at the end of the when he's confronted with the opportunity to tell you, he can't because again, when you're in a situation, it's really hard to overcome your feelings and the conflict and the I don't want to ruin a good thing for my family, and she's having this time in her job

Well, I love Brooke Davis's emotional arc in this because it is kind of Morley Gray. She's everyone's great friend, like Brooke shows up for everyone, and the one little piece of candy she wants for herself is this owen thing, and he keeps pushing her on all of the superficiality that she's able to use as her armor.

And it could go one of two ways.

It could be gross and like super alpha male, like you're not in charge here, but the way it's crafted, it comes off like he actually does want to get to know this person, and he doesn't care about the clothes and he doesn't care about the cars.

Did you like doing this arc with Joe? Oh?

I loved it, especially because you know, we were five seasons into this show and there was this There was just this whole like idea that you know, TV was amazing and that everything was amazing, And in a way, I actually felt a real parallel between what Brooke and Owen were doing on screen and what Peyton did with Mollie, saying like, oh yeah, you read a story and you thought how romantic that he carried me out of the school shooting. I was trying not to bleed to death.

This is cool.

I love seeing Brook use all of her all of her usual tricks and her cute flirtatious things in the backseat thing, you know, it's like all she keeps every time she comes toward him, it's with all these tricks or every time he tries to come get to know her, she busts them out and he's like, can we how do we weed out all this stuff. I actually really

And what I loved was that when he came to the store, oh, I was basically like, oh, you have a gimmick. I'm not gonna gimmick. And then she was like, oh, baby boy, you haven't seen my gimmicks.

You want to see them.

I'm going to give you all.

The gimmicks, and then when I break you, I'm gonna say no, no, you said no gimmicks bye.

Like I loved.

I loved the energy of that.

But she didn't break him.

Oh yes she did.

No.

He was totally playing.

Her that like he was like, fine, yeah, you went okay, I'll give you exactly what you want and you're gonna be too too scared to actually go through with this.

Oh see, I didn't feel that.

I felt like that's so funny.

In having done it, it was.

It was very.

Very much like I remember the night in the night in the car. It was like so visceral, especially because he she like makes a wise crack about his car and he gets all mad about it, which was.

He does get macho.

Yeah, he gets so mad, and the and the irony for me playing Brook, not that Owen would have known it, but was like, my best friend drove this comment, like, you guys basically drive the same car. I don't give a shit about your car.

Owen and Peyton are a lot alike in a lot of ways.

No, they really are, and it tracks for us. And and I just loved that that there was this moment, and I remember being in it that night and just being you know, Joe and I talking about it and him being like, it's kind of great that in every way that he pokes her, She's just like okay.

Until until Brook loses her mind and she says, what is the comment about the fugly giantes?

Oh my gosh, fugly giant test. Oh god.

I loved fugly giant testugly giant so much, so much because that's Brooke Davis breaking breaking that. All right, fine, just whoever this troll is. I loved that because then she pulls it together. But then Stew's about it with Jamie, which is so cute. Oh.

I loved that scene of you guys out there with the chocolate ice cream.

It was so nice to see the town too.

Yeah, that that scene for me with Jackson, like this whole season truly was like our season of being the best of friends, and like, you know, I babysat him all the time, like he was just such a sweet kid. It was like a really precious moment. And then you know, of course, like everybody grows up, like you know, he started playing like local sports with other kids. I became less cool, but this is the year. But I was like the cool big sister and we had the best time.

I love that What's under the Clothes Brooke Davis. I can't decide how I'm so lucky Peel about that line.

I know that's how I felt.

I was like, oh, I don't know if I love that.

They made a five year old, six year old boy say that.

I don't love it. I love it, but it was funny. I mean, it is real life. I guess it's real life, but.

That he could see it like that. The whole point Owen's point was what's under the persona of the fashion designer? And then this boy saw it.

Yes, he saw Brooks reaction to it.

Yeah, it was only really at the end of the episode that you were like, Okay, she's gonna pull out like this high school trick and then oh my god. I mean it's like it's like a cold shower. She gives Owen just like okaybye.

He was calling her bluff. I'm gonna go down. Swing it on that.

I was disappointed. I really thought she was going down. It was like, if everyone else is miserable.

At least we should get some little love.

Yeah.

She was such a good friend to Peyton, like she's been helping everybody out. She baby sat all day, like let the girl hook up with the cute bartender.

It'll happen delayed gratification, I will.

Say, because you just said, you know the way that she shows up for Peyton. I that's one of those other things that I have a visceral sense memory of is that scene with us, and I remember getting into it. I remember, you know, all the stuff we had to do to set up the fireplace because like for our friends at home, these weren't real houses. That wasn't a real fireplace. It's like a you have a fire seat on set.

Yeah, it's a long tube, a big like can of gas and a guy with a big mustache, usually with a cigarette dangling out of his mouth exactly.

And like, oh, that scene was so.

Special.

And I remember when we were shooting it, you know, because the house was built on a sound stage, so I was coming in from you know, outside, but there was no outside, there was no there there and opening that door and coming in and.

You were just.

You were like a raw nerve.

And it was beautiful and it made me I was like instantly back there with you, and it made me want to cry, like cause you just were so present in this. I cannot believe I thought this was my story and now I'm here and he's engaged to someone else, and it was like, oh my god, it was so beautiful. And then we burned the book.

Come on, I'm all burn But Hillary, you cried like six different ways in this episode. Somehow you managed to pull out a new emotion every time.

You guys know, That's why I'm such a goober now, is because I'm never gonna cry again. I loved that scene. I loved it so much. I loved it when we did it. I love it fifteen years later. I remember it so so well, and I think it stands out to me so much because I don't let people touch me. I don't like people touching me, and I can do it because I know how to be a people pleaser. But people in my life don't touch me. And Brooke

The scene of Peyton at.

Her mother's grave all by yourself, or sitting on the pool table by yourself, that's most like me. But when you have that special thing where it's like, oh, there's that one person that's allowed to touch you. My girlfriend's share a game. Is that person here where I live, where she doesn't care.

That I don't like to be touched. She pulls me into her big bosom and she's like, get in here.

So it's I can feel Peyton's reluctance to connect.

With a lot of people that way, but that she's just got that one mothering person. It's so important.

It's really interesting that you say that because the thing that struck me and you know, we talked about it a little bit in our podcast world at the end of season four that in that finale episode, that house party, we had a real like holy experience together you and I and I remember how everything felt different going into season five.

Yeah, if it was locked and.

It was like, oh my god, the like the cellular memory I have watching Brook and Peyton b roommates and knowing how that felt for you and me because it felt the closest to our initial like falling in love with each other at level five like season one friendship again.

Well, essentially it's what we were redoing, you guys.

We got to come back after this five year gap and redo what we had done season one behind the scenes, like it's so meta and weird.

No, it's so weird, and like watching that moment and we sit and we put the book in the fire and like I wrap you up and you put your head on my shoulder and I remember it and just being like I'm gonna hug you and I'm with you. You don't like to be touched, and I touch you all the time. I don't care.

Yeah.

I think those people in your life are so important, because if it was to me, I would just.

Be like, oh god, I don't know what to do with my body, like I need someone else to initiate.

But there's something so special about that. And I even think about like when we all did that, that that prompt thing.

What was it at?

Where were we wash it? When we did our first our first like big live thing together. Oh yeah, and we just like stood and hugged like it. There really is something about the people who've been in it with you. You can wrap you up when you need it and when you don't want it, when you actually need it, like yeah, And I could feel all of that in this episode, like I could see it.

Yeah, everyone reaching for each other.

Yeah, like people needing to be together.

Joy. It makes me feel bad that your character is like isolated in a way, like you're at odds with everyone or you're just like too busy to hang out with Brooke.

Was it not fun?

I don't want to be dismissive of like what you were experiencing in that moment that we got to do all this like feel good.

No, it's great. I love that for you guys.

I mean it's an iconic thing about this show that made people fall in love with it, and I mean that friendship is reflected all over in Girls Everywhere.

It's beautiful.

I think they didn't quite know what to do with me, and I think we've talked about that before, where it's like, Okay, well now she's married, she has kid, she's a teacher, she's basically like a mom, now, so what do we do with her?

Did you ever.

Feel like some of that also came from the fact that Nathan and Haley were always so popular that like the fans were like more Nale, more Nally, more Nay, and so in a way they kind of were like, well, we just got to give them more. Where are this and the rest of.

Us, Yeah, they just wrote us into a corner. Well kind of and like By the way, I love watching Nathan and Haley. I love I love to the point of what we talked about earlier, the way they're like the missed connections in this whole Nanny Carey storyline. They're so authentic, they're so important. But I do feel like, in a.

Way, because Nathan and Haley got married really young, Haley became so much like yeah, so much of the adult yeah, and like while the rest of us were still kind of doing dumb kids, you didn't get to do as much of it because your character was the wife mom.

The mature one had to be mature. Yeah.

And after Nathan what he had been through with his accident, and I think Hailey also, well, I don't think Nathan and Haley spent much time just like b and bff and getting to you know, it was always very romantic, and then struggling through her tour and then struggling through his basketball and the college, and there was just always so many things that were coming at her, at them. So I don't know, maybe that's what this next season is for what's coming up.

Not sure.

Y'all just need to lay in bed and watch vander Pump Rules.

That's it.

That's it.

We just need to like, I want to see them be buddies.

I do take a lesson from the Morgan household and just watch reality.

I want to see them be easy.

Yeah, me too, me too so, but that's not gonna happen a day soon.

And when they are easy in a way, Haley in particular, because Nathan still got to kind of be one of the boys and a brother and whatever. And there were moments that the three of us got, especially at the start of the season when Nathan and Haley were in

Yeah, what does what do moms do? What does my mom do?

What do moms do?

Moms make sandwiches?

Like what, it's so weird, you know, And that's what they think, I guess.

But Haley got a lot of like where we got to be roommates. Her Brook and Peyton got to have this sort of second adolescence because Haley had a family, she got the producing and then in the later seasons, like you know, Hill, when you left, like Haley got a sister, like Quinn came into the mix and right, But Haley's world has really always revolved around family, and I wonder if subconsciously that came from, you know, her

I have any hear.

All the girls I know that had babies in high school are like the spiciest most stonishes.

Like like, for sure Haley could have been spicy.

Man.

Yeah, there's a lot they could have done. It's not like I was lacking in personality.

But I think I.

Also, you know, as we know, he liked to Our boss liked to mirror what was going on in real life. And I've certainly in a personal place in my life where I felt isolated from everything and everyone, and so maybe kind of subconsciously I was bringing that to work as well, and maybe I was contributing to creating that in some subconscious way.

I mean, who knows. But our boss was also deeply reductive and only knew how to write women in certain ways, like he wrote the character of Alice to be liked this predatory boss and then oh, she's fired, and guess what, Alice has slept with every single one of her employees, every guy at work, any woman, Like, oh, come.

On the but dump bump of that was so flat.

I was like, oh, man, yeah, yeah, she couldn't just be like a like a boss lady.

She had to be a hole of course.

Ugh.

And it was Rick with the two pet and then it was Mouth's friend who was bald, and then it was Mouth also who was the nerdy guy, and then it was also so and so like.

Oh and maybe for Millie standing up for herself, because as much as I can't wait to see them find their way, the fact that he comes to her and not that she would even know this, but I'm sure she could sense it. He comes to her on a rebound. I mean, I know he was thinking about her and he was quitting and he but it was like to me, it came across like he was reaching for her, as like maybe something good will come of this choice that I've made, Like, see, I made a good choice, will

I super didn't like that mouth went to Milly and said, I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not that guy. Hold on, I wrote it down. It maybe yeah, he wrote I'm not that guy. But we saw what he did with Shelley. We saw how like creepy he was with Rachel half the time, like malth has been that guy. And I had a conversation with my son driving to school the other day.

I was just like, all right, you never tell people what you are.

Don't say that you're a jock, don't say that you're an artist, don't say what you are. Just do the thing. Let other people decide what you are. Don't talk about it, be about it and mouth. Anytime someone says I'm a good guy, that is a red flag.

Yeah, anytime anyone has to say.

I'm the good guy, I'm yeah, I'm a good person.

I'm the good guy.

What I liked, though, is that she made a decision about how she felt, and then he said, yeah, I'm not living up to the person I think I am.

Well you have the opportunity to grow for sure.

Yeah, and that's.

It is that he he got to be a kid who was like, well, I've been caught up in a thing and I'm not proud of it. Let me be the person someone might be proud of. And I loved that when he realized he was being on a gross saying no, no, I'm not this, I'm not this. Then he said, you know what, let me give you a chance, or let me ask you to give me a chance. Let me show you who I am. And then suddenly it felt like we got our friend back.

You know.

He was like, let me take you to see this thing that's important to me. And then the big surprise is, I can see any sporting event in the world. Here's this ballet. Tell me about why you love this. I was like, oh god, my Daniels, that is good writing good, romantic good.

We're all products of our environment, you know, And when you're a kid, you don't get to choose your environment. But then you hit the stage that our characters are at and you do get to pick your environment. And Mouth had been in one that was toxic and making him toxic and awful, and so he's choosing a new environment, and Millie is just a an oasis.

Well, and by the way, Peyton does this the same thing, however difficult it might be. At the end of the episode, when she walks into that gym and says, I'm just gonna pretend like I watched this girl who lives through us, and you know what I'm gonna do is as hard as it is for me. I'm gonna choose to be a person who's happy for you.

And that speech is my favorite moment in the whole episode. I loved us so beautifully done well.

It was gorgeous, like Hillary, this episode for you.

Was so good.

Yeah, and I loved seeing this group of friends in many ways, through what said and unsaid, through what Haley says to Lucas and challenges him, the advice she gets from Nathan, some of what she hides and some of what she calls out, some of what you know Brooke is asking for versus holding close to the best, what Peyton is admitting and then trying to teach from like everyone is really, really in it, and it all gets encapsulated in that moment of I don't know what the

I don't know.

I felt like all of us, against those passages, were just like trying to find it, and it really made for this like cool arc that when you see that moment in the gym, you go, like everybody's doing the best they can and kind of failing by the way, Like everybody's really in a precarious position, but we're trying, and some people are succeeding, you know, better than others.

Thing that Mike wrote.

It really resonated with me watching it all these years later, because when we lived in Wilmington, like I was hanging out with bands.

I was obsessed.

There's this book called The Secret Lives of the Muses, and it was about all these women who had inspired great men.

And at the time, there was no cooler thing I.

Can think of than like be in a muse, right, Like that was just such like a sexy idea. And now that I'm an old, gray haired woman and I write books, I'm like that.

Why would I ever muse? Like that's crazy. You have to be your own muse.

And my favorite poet and a Saint, Vincent Malay, would do that. She would write love poetry about herself about like if I were.

A man, this is what I'd say about me. I'm fantastic boss.

I love that.

It's so sexy and cool.

And so I loved that monologue about you can write about yourself. You don't have to live and hope that someone else writes about you.

Yeah, you know.

And it's the right thing Peyton does with Lucas too. I think going in and saying I'll do it, I'll let you go because I love you and I care about you, and definately like letting you go on your way. That releases her too, and that is self care that is her loving herself and trusting that there's something better coming along the way.

The only thing that's a little iffy, there's one iffy part. So like that leaf falls in the cemetery scene and like lands on Keith Scott's grave, and you know it's a sign from her mom like be like Keith.

Right, we should all be more like Keith. But in Peyton, like.

Bringing that up to Lucas, it feels Scooch manipulative and being like, hey, I'm the Keith to your Karen, so you just do what you gotta do.

But I know you're gonna come back to me. I don't know.

I don't know if that's manipulative.

It's honest.

That's what she thinks. That's like how she sees it. That's what she wants to be. It's a very like good thing to try to live up to. But she could have not said uncle Keith, which is definitely like a trick, like she could have get that part to herself.

Yeah, it's it's a deep cut. It's true, but it's a deep cut.

Yeah, she could have not said it.

You're right, you better come back to me before I die. Oh god, that's terrible. I know it's terrible, but y'all, kids are twenty one. Twenty two year.

Old kids are terrible, so we all have permission to just be nightmare pass. I mean, now that I've pointed it out, you can't undersee it. Now you're like, are you ruined it?

Ma'am? Oh, okay you At the end though, on the pool table, I loved that choice.

Was that you was that Paul?

Did you walk in to believe Paul set up?

I mean, I just thought everybody would always have you just at your desk drawing, and it was so cool to see something different.

Not Paul.

What's great about Paul, We've said it a million times, is that he already knew all the tricks, you know, he knew all the easy blocking, all the easy and so Paul was just always up for a curve ball.

And that set was so fun.

God, you guys, I loved when we would all be on that set together.

It was just just yeah, a really easy, fun, sexy set. You could go hide in a corner somewhere.

Yeah, it was great.

I loved it.

Yeah.

Well, why don't we have an office now with pool table?

Sounds good to me?

All right?

All right? The episode ended with Lucas saying, why don't we get married right away? Oh?

Yes, that feels like a red flag to me.

Yeah, right, Lindsay's gonna call him on it, surely right. I don't know.

She's really excited.

She's been wanting this for a while and she finally got what she wanted. But she's so smart.

I don't know. As I recall, he's gonna leave her at the altar. Isn't that what happens? No, baby, she leaves him, He leaves him, She leaves him at the altar? Yes, or that she leaves.

Him, Oh my god. I mean, we don't want to ruin it for anyone, but.

Yeah, you can put in spoiler alert if you want.

If you don't know, it's been on television for like decades at this point.

They don't know.

That's like, humphrevok our Nigmund Bergmann don't end up together.

Sorry, guys.

Yeah, we clearly have not seen it, though we have some memories. If they haven't seen it, I don't know what else to say.

It's crazy how much I remember filming this season, like, I remember every part.

I remember the wedding, We had fun, we were being in those pews fine.

Us sitting in those pews was so fun, and the misdirects that come at the wedding were so fun. I will say you get some foreshadowing of that, like maybe this is my honorable mention. I don't know, but skills showing up to toast Luke on his engagement and being like who is it?

Who is it?

Which one lindsay could be Brooke At this point.

That comedy was so good strong.

What else did we miss? What did we miss anything?

That's Jamie calling Nanny Carey mom. I was just gonna say it, Jamie, I'm sorry to step on your No.

Yeah, we're just looking at the same part in our notes, which feels sparkly because that was so mama. Uh, I mean Nanny Carey. That was a knife in my gut. I can't know you felt, because I didn't even play his mom and I was upset about it.

My first reaction was, that's not realistic. No kid's gonna mistake than nanny for his mother. But I have to say, especially when Maria was younger, you know, because her and I don't live together, so she if she's been with him for like three weeks at a time, which that's sometimes the schedule is like that when she comes back, you know, within the same day, we'll be I'll pick her up in the airport, or even the day the

Yeah, it's totally realistic.

Yeah yeah, and it's not malicious, it's you know, it's just you're the person helping me. That is what I'm used to saying when I'm asking for help.

Yeah, And what I loved is that, Yeah, that's an innocent mix up on the part of a little boy. And then that she is the adult takes it so far as to say, sometimes I pretend you're my kid as this like little bonding aside. While by the way, genius point that Ike wrote for Carrie to come into Close Over bros And Shop with Millicent being like, yeah, what was that like? And I need to and she's like, oh, yeah, you want to go on a date like this top Oh yeah, and it's full single white female.

It's so it is so so so.

Watch that movie again, oh right.

Because in a way to see Carrie in the background of a scene that's about to begin, you just go like, oh my god, she's everywhere.

And then she's in the.

Closeover bros top and Haley calls and says, You're like, well, do I need to come home for dinner? And she's like, no, they're not here. And then the upstairs Oh my god. Yeah, every single scene gave me the creeps in the best way.

Yeah, which she turns out boys, dinner, Dinner's ready.

Oh the way it's on one.

Oh boy.

We told you not to hire the hot nanny.

We everybody was right, you were all right?

Sure did all right?

Do we have any fan questions?

We do?

I just saw one Carla. She's asking where did y'all film the outdoor scenes at the high school? And she's assuming any inside school scenes were on a set, which is correct. Yeah, the outdoor scenes were at It was UNCW Community College.

Came Fair Community College. Wait, wasn't it UNCW?

Where do we go?

UNCW? Was it basketball games there?

Basketball games were Laney, Yeah.

Burgaw.

U n CW. We did some like big like Ernest Widella and I did some like military stuff there.

Oh. Look, we definitely shot stuff there outside to use that campus, but we were downtown at Cape Fear Community College.

I remember the campus.

Yeah.

Cape Fear Downtown was like our biggest because that's where the quad was.

M hm, that's where we were Cape Fear Community College.

Any bogie that just like happened to walk through a shot, thankfully, would just look like an extra. Like it really was the perfect set for us because we would have more extras just because people were walking to class.

Did people design waivers if they were walking.

Through because they put up those big signs. Oh yeah, I could say, if you walk through this area, you consent to being on film. Yeah, which feels a little shady, but it's how they would do it.

I loved those days.

It's been a wheel, I think so.

Yeahs, this was a good episode. It was a really good episode. You guys, Okay, I hope.

I've made any sense on this podcast post show.

It's like one o'clock in the morning for you, it is, but it's great.

I love it.

This is great. Guys.

Who's most likely to wait hours in the queue for Taylor Swift tickets?

What is in the queue? What does that mean?

In line? Standing in line?

Oh?

Like Brooke Davis is not gonna wait never.

I don't even think. Maybe Millie would, but she also seems a little too practical for that.

I think Brook Davis would be the one who denied waiting hours.

But would you think or wouldn't she just send someone else to wait for her?

M I don't know that she would trust someone else?

Is it skills?

Kills?

The skills who got notebooked? It's that skills. It's the skills in love.

I mean, his favorite singer in real life is Phil Collins, and one revolves Phil.

He loves just like a power ballad man.

Yeah, yeah, so hey, maybe he's our boy.

Okay, yeah, he would do it. Wait did anybody in our group go see the Taylor Swift? No?

I was deeply actively trying, and then I had to move to London, so no, I had to give up some tickets. I'm still upset about it.

Dude, Jeff and I just saw Sisters of Mercy, which is a very different kind of performance.

If you're into like.

Goth metal from the late eighties early nineties, it is the antithesis of Sweet Taylor.

Barbara. Oh, Barbara would do it with her girls in real life. Yeah, that's the right answer. She would. She would stand out there all day to make sure her and those girls got in.

Yep, and she'd make friends with everybody in line, and she would probably buy food for everyone.

She would have snags.

They'd be like doing TikTok dances to Taylor Swift song.

She would teach the whole crowd.

Yes, that is the perfect answer.

All right, thanks everybody. I love it.

What's next week?

Season five, episode nine for tonight You're only here to know?

Hmm oh boy, summer run buckle up? All right, bye, Hey, thanks for listening.

Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H.

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