I’m Not Crying, We’re Crying • EP313

our pre sale, so get in there. It's Drama Queens O t H dot com. You're gonna purchase tickets. Pre sale password is Queens. Of course it is public. On sale will be this Wednesday, August thirty one at ten am local, So get your pre sale before these go public. You guys, We're gonna be bringing you all the fields of this podcast plus even more nostalgia. We're gonna have some very special guests. Oh my god, I can't wait.

We've got live performances. We're gearing up for Q and A, so you may even see one of your favorite O t H scenes re enacted live on stage. Do you not miss out? On what promises to be the most hard stopping moments since that dog ate dance transplant. Guys Drama Queen's Podcast is live. It's time to put the shows over, bros. First of all, you don't know me. Were all about that high school drama. Girl Drama, Girl,

all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl Cheering for the drama Queens up girl fashion. But you'll tough, girl. You could sit with us. Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queens. Nobody wants to start. Yeah, so this is this is your favorite episode. It's Sophia's favorite episode. She loves rain Towers so much. Hi, everybody, We're like, we're all debating about who's going to start with this

because because we're all trying that, I'm emotionally spent. Yeah, I can't with this. There's part of me that is glad that Ellie storyline is over because it has been an ordeal me trying not to cry in these episodes. It's a lot like we've been sitting on zoom the last couple of weeks. All of us crying and um, this one took the cake. Season three, episode thirteen, The

Wind that Blew My Heart Away. Before we watched the episode and we read the title, we were all joking that it feels like a romance novel with Fabio on the cover, and now we're like, oh, what a bait and switch, another Baden switch. I loved this episode. Oh my gosh, Okay, y'all. This episode aired originally on February first, two thousand six. It is about the big storm which causes a blackout hits Tree Hill, and some very pivotal

relationship moments happen for everyone. Everybody's all coupled up in the rain. Keith and Karen's relationship takes a big step forward physically and emotionally with three little words, but Dan gets in the way again. Mouth and Rachel's friendship keeps growing. Nathan and Haley find common ground on their college issue and perhaps their marriage. Lucas declares his love for Brooke again.

Ellie and Peyton grow closer as mother and daughter, but Ellie decides to leave anyway, perhaps to try to protect Peyton as she knows she is going to pass away. We all sobbed and David Jackson really directed the hell out of this directed Oh my god, and Stacy Rukeys are brought all the feelings in the script and uh not mentioned in our synopsis, but someone who certainly deserves a shout out as Lindsay Wolfington, our incredible music supervisor

who really brought a soundtrack that um devastated us. Allow and I don't know what to say. I'm just trying not to cry. I guess we should get into it. Yeah, I mean, this episode was a dance. The way it was directed, it felt like it was seamless. There was never a jarring moment. There's nothing that felt like, oh I'm watching a show. I felt like I was in it. I mean, I was in it, but right, but also

you know what I mean, because you know what it was. Um. We have two tempos that we do really well on our show. We do the crowd scenes, the big basketball montage is really really well with lots and lots and lots of people, And there were never more than two people in any scene in this episode. It was theater. It was theater. You would get a four page scene and you'd have to act the scene and not be dependent on the editor. Tricks and stuff like that, and

some really powerful monologues in this episode. It was beautiful to watch every pair have their own version of vulnerability. You know, Hillary, you had this amazing dynamic of ease

growing with Cheryl and Joy. We finally get to see Haley and Nathan in this The note that I wrote down on one of my post it notes was innocence like the kids cereal and the sweet conversation, And it was this innocent moment for these two who had been through a lot and and you know, Brooke lashes out about feeling used and and perhaps not prioritized, and Lucas

has to kind of take it. You know. It's like it reminds me of the cartoons when you see somebody put their hand on someone's forehead and that person is just punching, but you can't reach the person. So so everyone had their own dynamic, but in these pairs the vulnerability really ran the gamut. I really really enjoyed watching

everybody just act their faces off. Yeah. Maybe that's one of the reasons why I really love this episode, because it it was theater, like you're saying, it was just us in a room together, And yes, it could have been a slightly less exciting with um, maybe a less skilled director, because I think David brought a lot to this in terms of creating the story of the storm as a character and bringing the town together and all of our locations and I mean we that really really helped.

But at the end of the day, everything was relying on us being able to deliver in each of our respective rooms. And UM, I'm just so proud of all of us. I think we all did a great job. Good job, good job, team, good team. Good I M I love too. You know what you're saying about David Jackson as a director. You said something at the beginning that illuminated his choices for me. You said, it really felt like a dance. You keep saying, it felt like theater.

It felt like you were in these little, you know, black box theaters with these two actors in every spot. Probably helped also energetically by the fact that the rooms were dark. But David did this beautiful thing, like you know when you see good ballet and dancers like handoff between each other and from one side of the stage you just follow motion. He did that with the camera. Yes,

every scene would pass through to the next one. Without it feeling like a device, like we're passing, you know, like in the Breakfast Club episode, that device was used and it worked for that comedy of that episode and sort of where we were. But if someone had tried to do that with this episode, it would have felt forced. I don't know how. I mean, that was really great.

I want to watch it again, just from a director's perspective together, I agree, because it was so well done, especially because you know, we know from having become directors on the show, you can design transitions and things, and so often your coolest shots get lost for time. They're like, we gotta get right to the dialogue, and like the thing you spent an hour setting up just ends up

on the cutting room floor. And you saw and and I'm I'm very curious about how someone like him, who you know, came from much more experience than obviously we did on our first couple of episodes. I knew how to create motion that wouldn't be lost and that wouldn't feel like a gimmick, that is a that is a a needle to thread. And I agree, I kind of want to watch it again. It felt like our show.

It didn't feel like somebody's coming in and trying to do their own tricks and experiment and learn how to direct or something. It was like, no, I'm going to honor your show well, And they threw in this huge curveball with also, it's going to be a hurricane, which

is going to be very expensive. It's really hard to shoot, and so all of the things that we had to do in the homes we had to do that in like three or four days because the vast majority of the time we spent was doing hurricane stuff all nights. Episode in the rain. It must have been cold because we had all those freeze but more than that, like once you got wet, you had to continue to do hours of work after that. So do you remember the inflatable hot tub of hot water at home? They don't

know how we did this. Hit him, hit them, tell him how we do this. So this episode, you know, aard in February, which meant we were filming it around the beginning of December. And for our friends at home, it doesn't often snow in Wilmington's, but it is a cold winter place, made a little more confusing in terms of how the temperature affects you by the fact that it'll get right around like thirty four or thirty three degrees,

not quite cold enough for everything to freeze. But Wilmington's on the ocean, so everything is damp and it's freezing. We've done some water based episodes in previous seasons and everybody got really, really sick. So for this one, they said, we're gonna spring, you know, we'll spend some extra money guys, and we're gonna get these inflatable hot tubs. And our sweet FX crew ran hot water in these things. But

it was like just above freezing. You'd go and you'd get soaking wet under these freezing cold rain towers and then they'd throw you in this hot tub. But you were wet, but then it was hot and so it hurt, and it just it was also about three o'clock in the morning. It was only all night. It's not like when you go to the you know, Norwegian spa and you have a dip in the cold tub and then you have a dip in the hot tub, and it's it's the middle of the day at your not elegant, No,

you're like fully clothed, you're fairly clothed. So in that whole bit where Brooke and Lucas are like tropping down that road that was the road behind the studio. Oh yeah, and they set up that little hot tub thing, the inflatable pool under a tent because once the towers were going,

they take a while to turn on and off. And I just remember being out there, you know, yelling and stopping my feet, like back by the airport, and those boots I was wearing would fill up to the top with freezing water every take, and and the other thing that comes back to me, it's like I can smell it the whole thing. Remember the fans, Yeah, those fans

are disgusting to blow. The rain wasn't enough just to rain once, and they wanted the water to be blowing sideways, to look like the worst storm anyone would ever scene. And so they got these fans, these giant yellow industrial fans that I I'm not exaggerating, are as wide around as an airplane, like if you cut an airplane in half, and they put one on either end of the road, just off camera, which also meant that the whole episode

was like so we had to go in. They cut the episode reading our lips in those scenes, and then we had to go to a d R and and do could you guys even here each other? Oh, I mean we were screaming to hear so bad, which you can hear in the a d R. You didn't like, Yeah, it was wild. It was so It's one of those ideas through like no one thought like, hey, We're going to do this thing in the rain and also have

to record half the episode all over again. We never ever did those big industrial fans for a hurricane episode again because it it costs so much money to do the post production, and like, things weren't matching even when I when I'm screaming and I'm like, I am not sure recycling Bin, That's not what I said in the tape that they used, And I was like, guys, we were out there, we were like doing the scene. We're

ad libbing and whatever. If you want the dialogue as scripted, like use the any other take other than the one where I said the wrong line, And they were like, we like that one the way. It looks the best. So I just yell recycling Bin over my mouth doing something. I'm well, I love the scene that Nathan and Haley have just because it dates our show in such a beautiful way because he had put out every article on her tour. It's so we just freaking screen grab that stuff.

You just take screenshots, that's right. So you have like a note with the links to the online articles. But back in the day they were physical. Boyfriend had a shoe box. Did you guys have shoe boxes? Yes? Who still have a box of notes and all that kind of stuff? I mean, did you ever have like a person's specific shoebox? Yes? Yeah? Yeah, I mean why are we talking past tense? I might have six or seven

of them. Um, you know there's something witchy about that, Like I'm going to keep all the mementos of this person so I can conjure them. It's right, it's mine, it belongs to me now. Yes, yes, I'm not burning red candles while I look at these things. No. And it's such a thing that like you wouldn't expect like a jock dude to do. Yeah, Nathan, I loved it too.

I remember sitting at that kitchen owner and feeling like in the first scene and he's like, that's how, that's how you wore your hair the first time, blah blah blah. It was very sweet. Hilary, you pointed out, you know, I loved it. I remember it feeling really forced, like we were both forcing our way through that dialogue, because it's also so not James to talk that way. It's like,

you know that sort of I don't know. I mean, I was never in that context with him in real life, so I don't know if he really ever does that or not. But it just didn't seem like his personality, and we both seemed to just be having a hard time like getting through it. But then once we got into it and we were like down on the floor and by the fireplace, and then we were in the Renaissance painting in the Renaissance, pa wasn't it just felt more conversational, I guess, and more playful, and so we

that that felt great. And then out in the rain, when did the notebook come out? I feel like we were just copying that scene because everybody was copying that scene in the rain. Once everybody was kissing, every show was like, let us in the rain. It has to happen. Somebody kiss in the rain. It just dawned on me as you were talking about that monologue being scripted for James, it's a huge Grant monologue. Do you know what I mean?

It's absolutely a huge Grant monologue, and so to have James, who is very much like a practical man, deliver it is I mean, I found it very impactful because I was swooning and you're like Hillary, I was just like, wow, he remembers all those things. That's I would never have expected that. Can you stay that again with a British accent. Two of us were dying and how sweet you guys were enjoyed. You were like, oh so awkward that day.

It's such a testament to how you never know how something's going to look to an audience, how it's going to cut together in an edit, and or something I always loved because you guys had to act together the entire I mean the entire length of the show, like your friendship was like you so often, you guys have this amazing almost like went off camera almost sibling energy, and when one of you would be like, what is this scene? It would just be so funny and it

always wound up. You guys had this shorthand to where even if something to your point felt forced, you would find something like really special together and it's I don't know, it's cool to watch it from this distance and to hear you'd be like, oh man, that day was so awkward and did but you know what that it is kind of the magic the liking the bottle that you don't know how it happens or where it comes from.

But yeah, I mean they would write this stuff for us, and a lot of times we would be like, this is so ridiculous, but we would just commit to it and it turned out great and loved it and the chemistry worked and it would just be like, all right, you know, check another box off the list. We did it.

It turned out. Yeah. Well, in this episode they nailed it, having you and Nathan like talking about the relationship, talking about the tour, finally addressing the stuff with Chris Keller, with Tyler Hilton singing the Little Crowdground Lindsey Wolfington Genius him covering missing You while you guys are getting over the Chris Keller of it all was that's my favorite cover. By the way, I just love you know, Chris Keller

perhaps is your guardian angel. Maybe you guys would have fizzled out and burned if you didn't have to deal with the you know, that first little bit of turmoil, but he made you guys really fight for it. Right. We found our way back right and that rain it was again another one of those like it's pelting you in the eye. I couldn't look up at him. Um,

you guys are always kissing in the rain. Oh so and I and I also had just I don't know if I had just gotten married when this was shot, or if I was about to get married, but I felt suddenly very you know, I was young, and like, I'm not sure how I should interact with my on screen husband when I was in a romantic relationship and wanting to like be a good partner in real life, but also wanted to do my job well. And you

know there were some complications with that anyway. Um, just you know, and everybody's feelings and you know, it just was like what do I do? And so? And I remember when I was watching this, I was like, he picks me up. Why didn't I wrap my legs around him and just like give him a big hug? And I was like, oh, that's why, because I don't know what you were trying to have a boundary, yeah, like doing but where where is my art? And my personal life and where you know, it's like young trying to

figure all that stuff out. That stuff was hard. It was hard then and it's still even weird now. Like when we spent last year up in Canada, I'm having to kiss Edwyn and Michael at work and sweet Grant is like we all hang out like every weekend that I know that you guys have to kiss it work. Does it make it weird if I say something? Do I crack a joke? Do I not? And I was like, imagine how I feel I have to do it? Yeah, exactly, still weird even as a grow up. I don't know, man,

our jobs are very strange. Well, and and let's talk about partners while we're here, let's talk getting some gyms. The hand went up. I'm ready because uh mouth gives this whole speech, which, okay, we're gonna get into the mouth and Rachel, but he gives this whole speech about how I'm not going to kiss you because I'm gonna want to do it again and you won't. I'm gonna wait till you want to do it again all the time.

Blah blah blah blah. Kids, kiss everything. I'm telling you right now, as a four year old woman, just kiss one of everything, two of everything, three, I don't care, do it? Kiss everything. It's so fun. It's what you talk to your friends about when you're an old person. You're just like, can you believe I kiss that? Yeah? That was awesome. Um, I don't buy into the mouth of it all. I think he should have kissed her, and my face, my face with mouth didn't kiss her. Oh,

I was so mad. I was stunned. Kid. But listen, I do respect that he had. There are some people who can do that, who can super just make it super casual because it's just fun, and you know, you understand that you're in high school and nothing is lasting forever. That starts in high school generally speaking, you know, except in tree Hill, where we all stay together for the one who did the long relationship on screen. Yeah. Yeah, some people are more sensitive than others. I appreciate that

mouth knew that his heart would get attached. Um, and so you know, knowing that he's not that kind of a person, I could I could appreciate and respect that. I thought he was crazy that night, but yeah, would you have kissed her? I would have kissed her. I also I will say. I liked where that wound up because in the beginning the things that were written for Rachel to say made me feel very uncomfortable. This girl, you know, yeah, what was that quote? Did we write

it down to be mean to girls? If you want them to like you? Here it is you can tell a girl she's nothing and she'll come running. Yeah, you know, pick out a flaw and then blow it way out

of proportion, she says. And I was like, okay, we know the incredible woman who wrote this episode, and the three of us were going this was a asked by you know who being a bully, because you know, we worked for some people who who not only picked on us as women and on our friendships, but really picked on us all physically in ways that were was real shy, Like it just felt terrible. How many times or you've got chicken e legs? Or there was always like a

comment about I was fat asked. That was totally the thing that floated around for me. So frustrating, you know, when you're like, yeah, honey, I mean and your businesses are talking about you like that behind your back. It's just unbelievable. And it was interesting too, because like they figured out how to bully everybody Like Hillary, they bullied you for being skinny, and then they always bullied me

for not being as skinny as you. Like. There was always a thing, and it was they just felt horrible, and I think the three of us really went when we saw those words coming out of Rachel's mouth, because it felt familiar and bad. I was like, Oh, there's a trigger. That's what therapists talk about. Look at the three of us having a moment. And and then as much as I didn't like that, I understood why they went so far with her in the beginning of the episode so that they could kind of wrap it up

near the end of the episode. And you could see that, you know, sometimes based on how we're socialized, girls can be terrible agents of the patriarchy. And then there's sweet Mouth saying I don't care what she looks like and I'm not going to need it to be this side or the other. I'm gonna love this girl who loves me, and I'll tell her she's beautiful every day and I'll never be mean to her and I'll never pick on her. And I was like, oh, man, more mouth, Like we

just needed more of this guy. He said, she'll be an elite girl to me, to me, elite girls? What the definition of an elite girl? So when Rachel wait, I literally just want but all I did was writing end quotes quote the elite girls. What the what you can say? What is an elite girl? An elite girl? I don't know, Brooke. It feels rude and u According to Rachel, they're the elite girls. Come on, we're elite.

I don't know, but I hope there are girl gangs all over America starting right now, dubbing themselves the elite girls because call it. You know, this is we're the girls that everybody wants to make out with. And that's the word that I also feel so weird about, because if you haven't noticed, it's always like really misogynistic billionaire men who call people who have fractions of their money elite in the world today, and I'm just like, what's happening?

Like what's going on here? So I feel like I would love to know what elite meant in the sort of cultural lexicon. In two Stacy. Stacy was sitting there at her desk and she was like, Okay, I got it's not the it. Girls were not Paris Hilton. It's can't be the pink lady. Yeah, where's my thesaurus? What's

the word that means special? Elite? These are lead girls? Now, it's I think you were right by the way Hillary that she was kind of poking fun at our creator because she with the poncho, the whole thing with the poncho with Nathan and and a lot of the dialogue that Rachel was saying it was so it felt it felt very over overly done, to the point where it was so overtly exact phrases that had come out of

his mouth. Yeah. Yeah, so able to rebuttal that from like from perspective of like, no, this is and we know he sort of always saw himself his mouth. So I think it's genius level trolling and that because when when they said like certain things about Rachel, I was like, oh my god, you know those things that Mark used to pick on, and what mouth says is, oh my god, I can't find any flaws in this. You're perfect and I'm not going to come after you physically and kiss

you because it's inappropriate. And so it's basically a female writer's way of putting him in check. Just being like, no, no, tachie, tachi techie, t like it. I wanted to hear something else with my mouth and Rachel that I want to talk about um. When he first is there in the beginning of the episode, he kisses her and she's like, whoa, whoa,

what are you doing? Did you just try and kiss me or he tries to kiss her something, and he says, well, you invited me over, you offered me a beer and then turned out all the light and we're sitting on your bed, like basically, what else am I supposed to think? And she's like, I just thought we were going to hang out or whatever. And he's great about it. He's like, I'm so sorry. You know, it's a really a nice

example of how to behave. UM what do we think of? Like, is it fair to say that if you're putting out those kinds of signals, it's a fair assumption for the other person to make that this is your goal. I mean,

she definitely put out a vibe. Well, no, hold on, I'm gonna go back mouth set the tone with the I'm taking a picture in your bedroom because I want to be able to like show my friends that I was in your bedroom, okay, yeah, and she is like, okay, well, if you're trying to impress your friends, let's take like a good photo. And that's when she pulls him onto the bed and it's like, let's you know, that's a wingman move. That's a move where it's like you will

look cool. I'm gonna make you look really cool. Yeah. But then yeah, she's I just feel for I feel for guys like that they're like trying to hatch the signals and for girls who are trying to send signals. But now we're in a phase right now where it's like I don't guys don't want to pick up on signals because they don't want to be afraid that they did it wrong. And then we're just sitting here like

what is he going to make him over? Is the coolest invention ever because literally all you have to do is be like you trying to Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it got so simple right right. Here's what I think is interesting. We're analyzing this as adults. I when I was sixteen, I was still having sleepovers every weekend, and you you are in this gray area where it's like, well, yeah, when my friends come over, there we hang out in

my room, like I don't have my parents do. And so what I liked about it was the fact that he went well because of all this, I was kind of hoping and she's like, I just invited you to hang out with me, like, oh god, And but they got over it real fast. He was just like mortified. It wasn't a big deal. It was just like I tried something. No thanks, Oh okay, sorry, no problem, let's move on to the next topic. Perfect. Sure, it's it's

mature because it's communicated. Things get messy when you're not communicating. And then he was like sorry. I just kind of was wondering if all this meant and she was like, yeah, sorry, that's not my intention. And then they let it go. And so that's where I think to your point, being like do you want to kiss me? I think I want to kiss you is a great idea. You just ask, and if somebody says no, it's like not the end of the world. And if somebody says yes, you get

to make out good for you. You You know how many more people I would have kissed in high school if I knew that trick of like, hey, do you want to kiss? We used to have to guess. Kids, We had a guess if someone wanted to kiss us, And now the rules are different and all you have to do is ask, which is fun. That's like, there are fun ways to set it up. Let me know when

you're trying to kiss me. Yeah, And I liked it. Interestingly, does go back to what he said in the end when he's like, when you wake up and you have to call me, like, when I'm the one you want, then we can talk about kissing. And I was like, touche. And then she bounces over to his locker room Monday morning. Hi. Hi, but oh, speaking of the locker she made out of contact with Brooke. Brooke is right, you can sweet and bitchy at the same time. I like duality. M I

did like that. I liked seeing that little moment. That was just a nice little reminder of where we are in the story and in our fairy tale land. That's where we are. How about how about Moira. I'm pushing off Ellie because it's the most emotional thing. So how about Moira and Craig the keithing we speaking of kissing? Yeah, in the windows they got down in the couch on Main Street, with windows that corner building. What a bold move. Not even the kids are doing that on this show.

And we were spicy. Um the street was so lovely, and these moments between them were very they were very sexy, but like tender, and I was like, oh, oh, there's something happening here between these two. I felt. I felt I didn't at all. I didn't like it. It felt weird. I like, you've never thought they had chemistry. I like the way that Craig and Barbara acted like I was I shipped as the kids say, deb and Keith. I thought their chemistry was like bane on us. And you know,

Moira and Craig certainly had like a tender element. But just always kind of felt like, guys, you have be friends for so long, Why are we going to do this? Why are we going to go down this road? What is it about chemistry? How like? How how is it that some people just don't click on camera and some people do, even if they're written for each other and they're right, they're both great actors. It's such a mystery

to me what that factor is? Chemical? Chemical must be chemical? Yeah, And it is embarrassing to like, it's embarrassing as an actor to know that the chemicals there right, and then have to be like, but it's pretend this is our job. Like there's just a weird dance you have to do in your head where you're like, I don't love this person. I can fake it really well though, because we both were genetically predisposed with the arimones needed to create a

chemical connection. But also a lot of people who are not remotely attracted to each other have great chemistry on screen. Yeah, I would say, I would say, people who hate each other. Yeah, that has at times been there, done that. Yeah, I don't know. Joy. You're the third vote, so few votes yes on Karen and Keith Nathan Karen, I'm definitely a no. I know you are. I I'm kind of go back

and forth. I was watching them when they were talking in the cafe right before the last scene, when they were all tangled up in each other, um, and they do feel like friends. It's it's a little boring to me. It's not exciting. Sophia. We're gonna hold on, We're gonna bring Sophia over the dark side. Sophia, Karen and Andy versus Karen and Keith. No, I get it. I I think what's interesting. There's so much on our show that's

about chemistry, chemistry, chemistry, fireworks whatever. The like the way that he got real close to her face in the back of the cafe at the top of the episode, right before the blackout and did his whole bit about like single guy, single girl, lots of history. I was like, oh, okay. And I think perhaps because so much of Keith, the Keith storyline is combative. Him and Dan are combative, him and deb were they had fireworks, but it was a real bad idea and it made a mess. Everything's messy,

and him and Karen are tender. It's a kind of safe. Yeah, Like I don't know. I I feel kind of drawn to that ease and that comfort, which maybe is because you know, I've done enough therapy to no longer be willing to date toxic people. And I'm like, look at that emotional safety and communication with two people would genuinely respect each other. I like it. So what you're saying is I got to take a class. I don't know. I'm just saying perhaps I like it now in a way,

and I might not. I appreciate what you're saying, and I hear you and I honor your truth. See I'm using my therapy words to um. Yeah, okay, so who else? So Dan creeping around in this storm and then getting the key to the Sorry, I'm sorry. In what world does a background check that you can do on a website tell you a personally safety posit box? I hated back then internet was still like we were still inventing the Internet. Then it was a work in progress that

felt really lame. Yeah, they got they got bored on that one. They're like, just get us from point A to point B, Like, just get us in that lock box. Um. But again, we've got these fabulous flashbacks to remind us that Keith didn't take the Ledger. It was Lucas. Yeah. I just was like, why is the Ledger back? And Dan? I guess it would have been. Was it last season? When He's like you thought that was real? I set you up to prove that you, you know, are conviving

whatever he said to Lucas. So now it's worth something like didn't shred it? And Brooke put it together? Very confused. Wait, that was long sheets of paper. It was like one long print out. Get back together? What was in the Ledger copy? Was it a copy that Brooke put back together. It was something from from Dan's from the ceiling. Dan shredded a whole bunch of stuff once Lucas had seen the ledger. So I don't know, probably files or something that's if you guys are going to be a criminal,

do better tidy up. What is Dan even looking for in Keith's place? He just decided to go wander around and poke around because he and the one picture he knocks over has a key behind it, and of course it's a picture of the two of them from when they loved each other. I don't know that all felt there was one strange little flashback of the two boys.

I mean, I don't know it's actually in the context of the episode, but it felt like that would have worked better if the whole episode really was about the two of them and then together episode. Yeah. I also, I just have to express something because we're talking about our own sort of lessons in directing and and what. There was so much in this episode that David Jackson did so well. It drives me nuts when directors and maybe he just wasn't given the time. Let me let

me fast. Seven hours after we filmed All the Storm stuff to do everything. But like when when whether it's directors, producers, the whole show, maybe they were running late. You know, working with kids is tricky because you only get them

for so much time. But when you don't work with kids enough to get them past the stage where they are saying their lines and looking at the other kid and saying everything is going to be okay, I'm like, help these kids talk to each other and and and there, that whole thing felt rushed, even the way they shot that scene with them, like they never got comfortable with their dialogue. And and I think it must have been we were always behind the ball on our show with time.

We were always scrambling to get the last shot because you know, has happened so often in TV. A studio doesn't want to give you as much of a budget as you need to shoot your show, so you usually do like one too few days per episodes. So they also want you to make the biggest show, never the biggest. They'll give you a lot of money to rent airplane

size fans, but not to produce the show. So interestingly, I I would imagine that was a very rushed thing, especially because they cross covered it like that was a rushed scene, but I think the fact that those kids didn't get long enough to really feel familiar with each other made the flashback also stick out and a really like what is this kind of way? That's sometimes where

the definitely in the floor. Man, if we still like a stand by me flashback of Teeth and Danny doing something serious together, I would have loved that would have been a cool kind of a bottle episode. I think, yeah, oh my god, yeah, I never got that. It actually would be a cool um series, like a prequel. Yeah, like how do we get here? Little Karen? Okay? Things to ponder, friends talk about the Ellie fent in the room?

Oh many, Hillary, when you're like now, when you're a little kid, and you're like, I don't know, Like sometimes you I think maybe I'm adopted. I wonder who my real parents are. Like, my my best friend Nick swears to God Susan Sarandon is his real mother. You know, like like sometimes you just see people and you're like, yeah, no,

that's that's who I belong to. There's just this thing with shir Lee that I still, twenty years out like cry over her, and it makes me feel like a total weirdo that I've got this like trauma bond to a person who didn't die. She didn't die, guys, She's still around. But you thought it was real. You guys had such beautiful work together, and your fondness for each other comes through, and it's so genuine, Like every scene

with the two of you makes me cry. So then that scene, I was like, I gotta go, I have to I have to leave my own house right now. She played that so perfectly too. She was so gentle and genuine and um she wasn't even conflicted, And that's what I loved about it. There was she was sad, but she wasn't conflicted like am I making the wrong decision by leaving? Or um is Peyton going to be okay? Or she had just come to She had already had all those conversations with herself and she was just there

to say goodbye. And it was very simple and to hold space for you to start asking all of those questions and go through all of that, and she just wanted to be that safe, stable place. UM. I loved that, and I love that they gave her the time and space too have those moments of struggle even in the end, just in the montage. Those moments, you know, were so beautiful.

I like, I like that they trusted her as an actress to do that, and they trusted you, and they knew, they knew what you were capable of, and really gave you, guys, Um, just such high quality material and moments and and space. That's what I felt like. They just backed off. They meaning the director and the showrunner and everybody who's got their hands in the pot trying to make everything. Producers and everybody's trying to make everything something. And I felt

the space that you guys experienced in those moments. It was such beautiful work and and so many small gestures carried so much weight because of the way that the two of you related to each other, like her saying, you know, let's go out and live, and you having this time in the rain and you were laughing so genuinely and and experiencing these big feelings. And then you come inside and she started brushing your hair. Oh my god, the hair brushing. Don't y'all ever try to brush my

hair because it is a sense memory that will destroy me. Um. I think when you're the oldest kid, you you your job becomes to help take care of younger siblings. And this is only something that I've figured out as an adult because I've got two kids of my own. The oldest kid stops being touched. There's like a touch thing,

a comfort interesting. And so you see like your parents, like you know, trying to take care of everybody and like making sure everyone's fed and everyone's out there like school stuff and they're after school stuff, and there's a functionality, but the eldest kid doesn't get physically touched anymore because the baby always needs it more, especially in like families with big broods. And it's only in making friends with other people from like big families that I've been like, oh,

that's why I'm such a weirdo. It's probably why I made out with literally everyone in high school because you're trying to it's like touch therapy where you're just like and anybody touching my hair. I mean, you know the connection I had to Jojo on the show. It is a very maternal thing to do that I've always been. I mean, I'm not embarrassed to admit I'm like super sensitive about it. So you're right, Cheryl Lee brushing my hair. I was like, who dreamed this ship up. I'm not

going to get through this scene. You guys saw my face. That wasn't acting. That was just me being like, oh my god, someone's touching meching me, touching me. Know when you were leaning into her robe. At the end of that you and she said my daughter, and then you know you just have this same one to I heard

that perfectly tall. Yeah, broke my heart. Well, she I was really really sad that we lost her, um, and you know, sad for Peyton, but also sad for myself because you know, we've gone on and on about how awesome she is. Um. But I do think that modeling grief for our audience is really important. And now, like watching this as an adult is so different. This is the first time I've seen this back since like it aired, right, how much what was our upset based in? But oh

my god, Ellie so young? You know, like when we did this the first time, she was a grown up and I was like, oh, grown up stairs. Sometimes she's younger than we were that we are, you know, And the idea that a young woman could die in this way, um is super traumatic. Like I mean what Cheryl was in her thirties when we shot this like she was so young, um, and so parents dying young is you know, that's a hard thing for kids to deal with, and if our show has been able to, I don't know,

help kids navigate it. We had a lot of missing parents. Yeah, yeah, I mean we had a lot of missing parents. Um. But Ellie's storyline was specifically for the teenager who had lost somebody and was like, Okay, how do I go to school on Monday after my parent died? I know. I love that we've got to model that and that you you did such a careful a job full of care is what I mean to say, in taking care of the hearts of those those teenagers and those kids

that didn't know how to how to move forward. But they had they had Peyton, they had our show. They had these moments when they knew that they could just tune in and walk along that journey with somebody else. If they couldn't talk to their friends, if they didn't know how to get through it, being able to see that had to have made a massive difference. I'm sure

you hear it all the time from people. I mean I've had people reach out just recently on d M and say like, you know, people I love are dying of breast cancer? Will you guys do like a follow up album? Ever to Friends with Benefit? And I'm like, I wish I had control over that. Yes, still on the internet, Like is that album exists? Still? I don't know? Are we going to Google this? Is this what our telephones are for? I mean, so listen, don't go to the same site. Dan. I just pulled up my my

music uh site and Beyonce is up. I don't know. Listen, We're gonna need to change pace so I don't cry anymore. Um, have you all listen to the new Beyonce? Because repeat for days? Joy. It's so it's like it's the perfect palate cleanser for a cry baby episode like this one. You put on this this song Cuffett, and you're just like, I'm gonna go make terrible choices right now? Verry on brand with Ellie's messaging of go live a messy life, don't be scared of anything, It's just life. Listen to

Beyonce make terrible choices? Yeah, I read Um, I read this article the other day. I can't remember if it's like on Vice or Vulture or something. And they were basically saying that, you know, Beyonce came out and made an anthem to like inject culture back into a society

that's gone flat from pandemic exhaustion. And I was like, yeah, because every song on this album makes me want to be in the middle of like a warehouse in a sea of at least six hundred just like sweaty bodies in the dark, dancing like I want to go out like wre like we did when we were twenty four.

I'm like, let's go where are we going? Where? The best part about Beyonce being exactly our age is that every phase of life we're in, she creates a soundtrack four and I'm like, girl, how did you know how that's what I was dealing with? God bless you? Oh man, Yeah, Joy, That's going to be the thing that makes us all feel better after this episode is just good good. She was right our contest winner, Amanda, Yes, right, because she was saying, you just have to wait, wait two more episodes,

so this is the one she was talking about. I did personally like the last episode, but it was a clear winner maybe of the whole season for me. I loved this. I walked through every moment with this, I think the mouth and Rachel's stuff felt a little I was, it felt like they didn't have a lot to write, so they stretched it out a little bit more than necessary just for the sake of being able to cut

back and forth. Um so, I because I left my self wondering, or it left me wondering, what's the point of this where we're getting But of course we finally got there. So I really loved that. But anyway, I loved this episode. I do too, and I like the broke asserted herself, like, I'm not getting hurt again. I like, explain to me, why me. I'm going to ask you pointed questions and I want a serious answer, and I'm not going to let you flirt your way around this anymore.

Like she was right too, by the way, you don't sign off the same way you signed off to an ex girlfriend, especially after you're like, let's check in on her. No, we will not, we will not. I am Yeah. I loved I did, really love the way Stacy wrote those scenes. I thought it's seriously written all of it to let Brooke really express and get to the core of why she's having trust issues. Look, you betrayed me. I don't trust to you have to tell me more. It's not

dissimilar to what Haley was saying to Nathan. I'm sorry, I just have so many questions. I need to talk about it. You know, when you when you need to know more so that you can understand where you stand with someone well. And Peyton does that too, she says, I need to talk to you about the cancer. All three of us do that in this episode. Explain it to me like I'm a kindergartener. H Yeah, it's it was very well done, and oddly even comes back to

the conversation about mouth and Rachel and kissing. It's about communication. You've got to communicate because the reality of being a human is that if you're not communicating with the people in your life, your brain is filling in all those gaps with whatever story serves your fear or your anxiety or whatever. And so it's so much better to talk about it. And yeah, I talking talking it out. King is so sexy, super sexy and dude that actually it's

a perfect time to tell you, guys. I looked at our prep doc for this week and got so excited because one of our listener questions is from this girl, Emily, And she said, what do you think your character is? Love languages? And I'm like, are we all saying we're words of affirmation? Like we just need to talk? Is it true for all of us? You know? Yeah? Yeah,

well Stacy is so good at this. And I didn't even think about this until just this moment, talking about like how how sexy and important it is like that all our characters got to ask questions and stuff and have hard conversations. My girlfriend came over for dinner last night and was like, oh my god, there's this TV show. My husband can't watch this show with me, and I'm so hot for it, and like the dialogue is so good. And she was talking about sex Life Stacy Show and

I was like, oh funny. Yes, I was just like, oh, yeah, we know her. She said, how do you owe her? Now? I can tell her. She wrote one of our favorite episodes ever. Amazing. She knows what women want. Yeah, I Stacy, come say hi to us sometimes. Yeah, we're like the Stacy fan club over here. What are our listener questions this week? Yeah? Well I mean in infirmation? Yeah, Jack's service, What do we my love language Payton's is probably touched too.

If her mom has been dead for years and her dad doesn't touch her, like touch is going to be like a sensitive subject for her. Um. Yeah, I would say maybe acts of service for Peyton too, because there's not she's doing everything herself that when people do things to help her, how do you how does she feel

about that? Is it like let me alone, let me do things myself, or well you clearly see her fall for Lucas later because he comes into her kitchen wants and sweeps things up, and like he helps her do things, and Jake never does that, you know, like none of the other boys that she dates does that. It's like Lucas is the person that shows up and does manual labor at her house, and she's like, think this is cute, cool,

It's right. What's what's Brooks? I mean, definitely words of affirmation for her, I think, especially because she comes from a family where her parents don't talk to her about anything. Um And yeah, I would likewise say acts of service. It can be hard for her to receive help. That's something that's an arena in which we're certainly similar. So when people do it, because I refuse to ask for it. It's like it's it's earth shifting. It's so meaningful to me,

and I think that's something we have in common. It also took me years to realize, Um, you know, I'm a bit of a magpie. I like to collect and nest. And that so fair because we could have told you as your friends, you know what I have to say, like and like I'll be vulnerable here. Like as a younger person, when people started talking about love languages and people were like gift giving, I was like, how shallow

gift giving annoying? And and then I started to realize, like, oh no, gift giving is such a love language to me, Like I love nothing more than being out in the world and seeing something and going that's Hillary Joy would love that, and collecting little things and like I realized I'm not even a person who saves things for people's birthdays. Like you both know this. You'll just get a package from me because I get excited. I'm like, I collected all these little things for you and I want you

to have them. And yeah, and I'm like, oh, I'm a squirrel, like I just I just grab them and then I bury. Then Joyle send you like a box full of citrus, those citrus Joy would send me from California so I could make things here the farm. I would be like, it's gold in a box. Yeah, giving this treasure hunting for you. Let me tell you if you actually received something from me in the mail. I love you because I can not get to the post office for my life, not to save my life. It's

so hard for me. I don't know why. And I do the same things. So if I like to buy things that remind me of people, but then they sit on a debt like I, I'll even put them in the box. I get them ready to go, and then you know, the box ends up at the bottom of a pile. And then it's a year later and I'm like, what's what's in here? Oh? Yeah, you weren't changed my life because I've done that for years. You and hurt

the same. I finally signed up. I have a FedEx account and I have a UPS account I have and I go online and I log in and I print a label and I schedule to pick up. I can't be it takes a few minutes. I hadn't I haven't seen the inside of any post office that isn't like a cute post office from the fifties and a little town where I'm got to go in there and buy some stamps like that is like a community service project to me. But do you think I'm gonna go to

the post office in l A. Absolutely never. So it's only since I finally was like, I'm an adult, I've managed to pay my mortgage for a long time. I have to figure out how to get the mail out of this house and that that's it. Like that's where the internet has been helpful to me. But if it wasn't for that, you never would have gotten your tumblers and Hillary never would have gotten the mug with her initials on it. Joy, We're just gonna find you like a brawny mailman that has to come by once a

week and pick up your packages. Or I just need like a scale where like I need what the post office has where it's a scale and then there's a keep at on it and then I punch in the address and the weight, and then the scale prints the label for me and then I just stick it on the box that I could do. It's the getting online part that is. It's just an endless abyss of pain.

Maybe if Dan Scott you can find If Dan Scott can find that that little box the Keith had in two thousand five, we can find you a scale machine. We're going to find you the scale print out machine. I believe in the power of our audience. Wait, so we what's Haley's love language? Did you say? I think

she's acts of service and probably words of affirmation. Actually, I don't know if she has words of affirmation because Haley does seem to call bullshit on a lot of things, and she's very likely Yeah, yeah, you say it, but show me, show me, show me. So I don't know. Maybe it's acts of service, and what are what are the other ones? Gifts, gift giving, acts of service, physical touch, um, words of affirmation, quality time, quality time. That's right, it's

quality time for her for sure. Yeah. I think that makes a big difference. And then we have Danielle who says, how different would the show have been if Dan and Deb had another child once they were older and more established. So if Nathan had a little brother, do you think there would be a different dynamic or drama if Nathan had a kid's sister or brother. I wonder if they ever thought about that. That's interesting, hm, I mean it

kind of would have been a distraction. I don't know the deb would have been willing to haven't like she stuck around that another kid, Dan Blesser, But I don't know. No, sometimes it can take the heat off of well it's it's a you know, it can either take the heat off of the first kid, or then you could just pit the kids against each other and it becomes, uh, daddy loves you more, Mommy loves you more. Kind of situation.

Did it with Nathan and Lucas And they didn't even grow up in the same house together, but we went through that whole dynamic where he moved to Lucas in And I definitely think he would be the kind of parent who'd put the kids against each other. And I wonder if you know, do you think having a do you think having a daughter would have been? You would have been trumpy with her. It would have been weird,

Like I can't even say it. I know exactly the photo you're picturing right now, you know what I'm talking about. It would have been gross. Yeah, Dan Scott would have been the man who said, is it wrong for me to want to date my daughter. You guys are gonna bar this right. He picked up Haley's brat outside of the shower where Pet was. I really think Deb knew.

She knew he was a terrible parent. She saw the way that Dan was willing, Like the deep misogyny that you have to be capable of to literally get two girls pregnant at the same time and watch them both Hell, your kids is pretty gnarly. And and I think Deb would have observed the dynamic Dan had with Keith, which was so cruel, and said either way we would lose, Like no, yeah, but I will say, as you know, as an only in my life, Yeah, man, like being

the only one. It's it's a lot of pressure. Um and my parents are pretty great, They're not like Dan and Deb, but it is a lot of pressure. There's no one else to um pull focus. So there's a lot of expectation, attention, you know, there's a lot you have to kind of live up to. But I would if I put myself in Deb's shoes, I think she she likely would have said, I'd rather focus on one than run the risk of either of these dynamics. I've

seen On have in his life that have been so toxic. Yeah, probably secretly got our tubes tied or something, right, don't tell anybody. Oh, guys, thanks for walking through this wild hurricane of an episode with us. We hope you enjoyed it. Let's been a will most likely to okay, most likely to have the messiest trailer on set. So I guess we're not doing character options. Uh, this is this one's gonna burn, guys. I mean I feel like I was gonna say it's either you or me. It's definitely you

two because my trailer, No you don't. I do a full move in. Yeah, Sophia, you had haying artwork. When we came to visit you in Toronto. You had like dishes and things in your trailer like you had moved in, like it was an apartment. I loved it. Oh, because all that's single you on set makes me so crazy. I do I bring like camping gear? Yeah, I bring lamps because the lights in there are terrible. Joy brings plants and crafts like ways. It's a fault, but I

think that's I was inspired. I remember walking into your trailer and seeing all of your apartment in your trailer, and I was like, oh my gosh, we could do this. This is an option. And so the difference though, is that you're capable of keeping it all organized and putting everything back. I didn't know that. I wasn't really capable of that until I brought it all in and then I was like, oh, it feels like a bomb went off every day. Maybe maybe I need to take baby steps.

I thought it was whimsical. I appreciated it. Yeah, you were also like painting in your trailer. I'd come in and there'd be like water colors out. I was like, what are you amazing? Yeah? Hello, and craps and sewing and all kinds of all kinds of fun stuff. Well, you know, you gotta keep your brain busy, That's what I'm saying. There's a lot of sitting around. So I love it. Alright, guys, well that hit too close to home.

Thanks a lot, everybody, We'll see it. We'll see you next week with season three, episode fourteen, All Tomorrow's Parties by hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at drama Queens o t H or email us at drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We all about that high school drama. Girl, Drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a rod in our comic girl cheering father right drama

queens up girl fashion. But you'll tough. Girl. You could sit with us. Girl Drama Queens, Drama Queens, Drama, Queen's Drama, John mc Queen's Drama Queens