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This feels so nice. Welcome home, Ron.
Thank you, welcome home, Thank you, welcome home, Joy, Thanks.
It feels good to be home with you. Guys all. This is great.
It's been a minute since it's been all three of us.
But I'm happy about this is a nice episode too, And.
I don't want to get ahead of us, but I'm going to. I was so delighted to see that you directed the Thank you me too, and I'm gonna get ahead of myself again. One of my favorite shots of the season so far.
Oh whoa, yeah, let's talk about it.
Yes, let me talk about the specific shot before we even talk about the episode title.
Oh wait, no, no, no, hold on, we do have to do the episode title you're right. I forgot that this is part of our job. Do we do the episode title.
Like well, director, director.
Reading, Hello everyone, this is season seven, Episode one, seven That's seventeen at the Bottom of Everything, Air date February fifteenth, twenty ten. Nathan tries to help Haley and Jamie confront Lydia's seemingly hopeless situation, while Brooke and Julian navigate their volatile friendship. While Brooke and Julian navigate their volatile relationship in the midst of a hectic movie shoot. Meanwhile, Clay is on a work trip and runs into a familiar face.
Miranda also tries to prove to Grubs that she's the right person to produce his album. Directed by Yours Truly writer John Norris.
I really enjoyed this episode so much, ad too. It was very well written. I think there could have been one better to direct it than you because of the sort of central force in Haley's life being the center
of the episode. And I don't know why I heard It's like I heard in my ear while I was watching one of the early episodes that you and I did with Hill talking about the kind of revelation of the simplicity of our show that we just let people talk about their feelings and all this vulnerability and all this learning to process, and in a way the device of everyone having to help Jamie as a kid process it.
I was like, man, this you know, obviously we didn't get to meet Haley's mom until this adult phase the time jump of the show, but it felt like an old episode too. I loved it.
Yeah, well, you know, we actually did meet Haley's mom early on when wedding Nathan and Haley go meet. Yeah, the wedding, but it's been so long. I mean, Rob didn't even know that Huey Lewis played Haley's dad, so like, you know, we had a lot to catch up on
with the two of them, or with her anyway. But yeah, I agree, there was there was a simplicity that came back in this even in the antics with Grubs and Miranda, like it was, you know, it was gimmicky and fun, but it was still just two people just trying to connect in a unique and funny way. And I there's so much of that in this episode. The simplicity that you're talking about. I really were you great ming as.
A director to try to make it feel like the high school years. Or do you think that was just coming through in like reverse osmosis.
No, I think I was just trying to feel the emotion of the of the scenes. I mean, directing for me is like is like listening to music. You feel
in your body where the emotions are sitting. Is it is it high fast paced anxiety, like the scene with Mitch and Not and Janna, Alex Alex and Alex the daddy Alex's Or is it softer and more gentle and like the opening scene where I'm watching Lydia and all the little movements that you appreciate about somebody as you recognize that they're going to be slowly leaving your presence.
So I don't think it was more about trying to identify the with the with the first few seasons as much as that just naturally happened because our directors in the first few seasons, I think, also did that. They really moved with the musical emotion of the show.
Yeah.
I like that a lot of scenes.
It also feels like it it's a combination of good writing for good actors. Yeah, Because I watched that opening scene and my first note is, you know, I like the way we're watching Lydia's story unfold. It feels very grounded and real. So I think you have good writing, but then you have people making smart, subtle, honest choices, and that kind of set the tone for everything because that story is the through line to the episode.
Letting it be, just let it, let people take a look. No, nothing was forced, even a glance to the side or just watching somebody sit. Leave the camera on the actor and trust them to give you what you need. You don't have to do a lot of stuff with the cameras, and not a lot of fancy tricks that need to be done.
Just trust Yeah, And you know what, it's really good point because when you give great actors, you know, like Bess and all of you surrounding her and all these scenes, really good material. It's also not overwritten. It wasn't one of those scripts where you knew you were going to lose two scenes to the cutting room floor just to make time. You actually had time to watch a line be delivered and then watch someone think about what they
just said. We had some air to breathe, and I think that was really important for the subject matter because if it had been if it had been sped up for the amount of lines in the episode, there was so much nuance we would have missed.
Have you ever heard that story about an old black and white movie? It's like one of the classics. And at the final shot is the woman watching like a boat go off into the distance, and you know it's on her and I guess the story goes that she went to the director and said, you know, what, what should I be thinking about, you know while I watch that? And he said, doing your laundry when you get home, And he said, don't you don't have to do anything.
The audience is going to project all of their own stuff that they've been feeling for the last eighty nine minutes onto that moment. And I love that, right because it's the truth. And like the same thing with this one, Like everyone has a story that's simil to what Lydia and the Scots are going through, right, So everyone has their own baggage that they're going to bring it the scene.
So when you have a good actor kind of just sit back and do a little with it, it's not a problem because the audience is going to meet them halfway or more than halfway, with their own stuff to fill in all the links.
That's a really fun part of acting when you just get to hold space. You know, there's times when you have to drive a scene and you really have to dive in, but man to be able to just sit back and hold space for the audience. That's the kind of storytelling that's like, it feels like you're really in service. You're not there for an ego boost. You're there to just open it up and let people, let the audience do what they need to.
Yeah, I love it. That's really cool.
I had this an early mentor of mine say, it should be a privilege for the audience to know what you're thinking.
M that's interesting.
And then we'd be occasionally we'd be occasionally doing a scene and he'd be like, Robbie Less, this is this is your lean in moment. I was like, and he goes, this is when we get the audience to lean forward in their chairs. It's like, oh, so it was kind of the beginning of that, Like.
I'm going to write that down. It should be a privilege the audience to know what you're thinking. I love that's great.
Yeah, shout out Tims.
You know what it makes me think of the scene that you a little further into the episode, I know we're going to probably bounce around today because we're talking about so much emotional stuff. There's that great scene where Quinn takes Clay to see the gallery space, and I wrote down that you guys did something really special, because we've all been in that position where something horrible is happening and you got to just do what you got
to do. You know, she's got this thing happening at home, as all the James girls do, but she's trying to keep it positive and Clay's going out of town and Quinn's got the space and you stop her and you call yourself the poster boy for suffering alone, and Sean tell me it's such a great choice. Or maybe it was just what was happening between the two of you, like sometimes it takes you over and sometimes you're really trying to do the right thing for the roller coaster
of the episode. So I don't know what she was thinking, but I loved watching you because I saw you offer an observation of yourself crack her open, because she knew she was being seen, and it is so hard to act on the verge of crying not to just cry, and she is trying to hold those tears in and keep it up beat, and she's smiling, but her voice is cracking and her eyes are tearing, and you're just standing there telling her you're going to be home as quickly as you can, and neither of you is really
saying the thing, but you're saying so much. And I was like, oh my god, this is one of my favorite scenes in the episode, Like, you guys were so beautiful together.
She was so good in that scene. The takeaway the note I had from that was a team yeah. I was like, oh yeah, okay, I.
Wrote She's on the edge the whole time, and it makes I want to solve Is it like I'm watching these people do this beautiful job, like trying not to cry alone in my living room.
You're right, that's the smart part about that's the interactive storytelling of an actor holding it back because then it gives you the chance. It's like, you know, when you grow up in a family where there's one person with all the emotion and nobody else has space for their own emotions.
I wonder what you're talking about it.
So that's what it's like to be able to be an actor and hold it back so that you're not taking over the emotional space. Let the audience have the emotion that they need to have. That's exactly what you're talking about.
I think, do you remember directing the scene?
I do, because and what I remember is that you guys made it so easy because exactly that I didn't have to There wasn't a lot to do there. It was just let them feel what they're feeling.
I think.
I I just trust audiences a lot, probably a lot more than I should. I don't know, but I give I give people a lot of credit for being smart and so I I don't know, it seemed like it was gonna work, but it did.
Yeah.
I don't think that's a fault. I think that's a good thing because the result is good TV.
Yeah.
Before I forget, let me just tell you, Oh it was, because I'm gonna jump way ahead.
Yea.
The Owen and Millie storyline, first of all, was wild and great, especially great because in the in the recovery meeting, when when she sees Owen, I thought, oh, no way, this is an interesting way to bring Joe back. And then about five minutes later in my notes, like wait, a second, isn't he the one she slept us? And then and then when she has him come pick her up at the apartment. First of all, when she walks in and she's really petty and jealous to miss Lauren
and uh in mouth, I was like, come on. Then she has Owen pick her up at the place, double come on. But when they're bowling, the shot is this sorry, this is the this is the scenic route to getting to my point. They they're bowling, it's the end of the scene. Yes, And they both sit down to take their shoes off. I wrote it down to it's just a shot at knee level, but both heads have dipped into it and they're just talking. And I thought, oh, that is such a cool, unique shot. I love that.
Do you remember doing it?
Yeah, that's not one of the ones that was like really sticking in my mind. I just remembered it. I mean no, I mean I like that shot too. I was always looking for ways to have people not be talking heads, Like sometimes it's important to just, as we say, leave the camera alone and let people do what they're doing.
But I wanted to create a sense of intimacy, so I'm sure that was one of those things that I was just watching them do their action, and you know, when you disco you watch an actor create a moment, you're like, oh, that's exciting. Stay there for a second, let me figure out how I can. I love the feeling I'm getting. I want to get closer. So I think they just did that in rehearsal and it naturally was great, let's do it.
And it was so What I loved about it, too, is that it felt spontaneous, which is such a nice feeling to get when you know you've shot a scene eighty six times in like wide shots and close ups and whatever. And I loved that they both leaned in and we didn't watch them taking off their bowling shoes to put their shoes on, but we knew exactly what they were doing.
Yeah, you know, I liked this storyline. I like the two of them. I relate to this sense of, yes, they had this moment together. I don't know whether we landed on it was a mistake or it was just
what it was. I mean, we had a lot of issues around the way those episodes were written, around Millie and her virginity and all that, but they experienced something together that created a ripple effect in their lives and still coming back together and talking through things, being friends instead of just avoiding each other, like understanding that there's something in the shared experience that they need each other.
And that's okay. It doesn't everything doesn't have to be perfectly clean cut and following all the rules of how you should be interacting with people, If that makes sense. I just really I really like their dynamic a lot. And I didn't know how much I missed Owen until I saw him just as a viewer. I was like, oh, yeah, Owen, I miss him.
Well.
It's also really refreshing when, to your point, we've sort of seen this pseudo stereotypical thing happen and we go dick and then this unexpected thing happens episodes later, and Owen knowing where Milly is because he was there once, Yeah, and being a good friend and being you know, protective and encouraging in a way. It's almost like a palette cleanser for all this stuff we hated months ago. Yeah, and it reminds you of how great actually both of
these people are. And I appreciate when we don't act. Look, life is not black and white, right, like everything is shades of gray. You can be a good person and still have made a mess. You can be an incredible spouse, partner, daughter, son, whatever, and still have hurt someone you care about and been devastatingly hurt by people you care about. I appreciated in this that we let people make a mess and clean it up.
Yeah, we get to see the longevity of that.
Yeah, it's human. And I think maybe it feels even more refreshing, you know, because we now live in a sort of experiential era that we didn't when we were filming this, where everything is so like sharp and judgmental, and the internet is full of bots and like everything's just vicious everywhere. There's no room for longevity. There's no room for people to be people. And I love I
don't know. I was so relieved to see that long arc of this relationship and the healing that they're doing in the way that they only really can see each other right now and like support each other, And I just thought it was really beautiful.
You know what else I don't think I had seen almost any of, certainly not on the CW at the time, was AA or any kind of like a group therapy group accountability, Like the normalizing of going to a meeting, like just show up at a Tuesday afternoon meeting and if somebody there makes you uncomfortable, the fact that he offered, like we can schedule it so we go on different days. Just the normalizing of that in conversation that it's totally
okay and it's good and it's helpful. I realized I just watching it back, I was like, I don't think I'd seen almost any of that on TV, so it was kind of cool.
It was cool.
Yeah, For as much as I disliked Millie's drug storyline, I found this replashing. Yeah, it was. It was the right amount of like raw and messy but honest. And the way that they wrote Owen into it and he sort of shepherd in her being the more experienced with some time, you know, recovery time was great, you know, And I think there's a line where she says something like thanks, I don't I don't think you know how much.
That means to me, Like I do, exactly there.
Great, you said so much there with.
Yeah, simple cut it down, just cut it down.
Because there's so much power in it. And you know what's crazy just hearing you say that joy, like I just had this whoe because obviously we all talk a lot about you know, growth and joy because our characters
went through them. We've all been on this ride together for you know, ten to twenty years, and like seeing you talk about how that just wasn't a thing then and your book is behind you, it's like I sort of had this out of body experience being like, oh my god, could you imagine if then when you felt as isolated as you did, and I hope it's okay, then it brings us up. But like you, you were so stuck in your high demand group, we all were
also in a like an almost toxically masculine environment. We're no matter what was happening to anyone, we were never supposed to bring it up and never supposed to talk about it and never supposed to rock the boat. And you were supposed to come to work and like do
your thing. And you know, I think so much about how this was the season after like Hillary left, when she and I finally got to start talking about some of the things that we were putting the pieces together as we talked about earlier in the show, like the things Mark was doing, Yeah, things our boss was doing and saying behind our back site. We couldn't really talk
about it until she was gone. And it's like, can you imagine if instead of coming to work and being like, hey, are you good and then waiting and being like, yeah, I'm good, are you good? And everyone was kind of like yeah, like if therapy, if aa, if any of this stuff had been less taboo, Like can you imagine how how much quicker we would have arrived to this class?
It would have changed, That would have changed my life. And I'll tell you, yeah, you know I had There was a diction in my family, and it's in the lineage, you know, but that stuff gets passed down, whether it's your immediate family or your right before the grandparents. And I remember my mom taking me to alan On, which is for family members of addicts. And I remember her taking me when I was like sixteen and dropped me off, you know, thinking this is going to be good for her,
it's helpful. She was all. It was best of intention, But at sixteen, it was like this dark, small room. I think there was like six other people. I was so uncomfortable. I didn't I wasn't in touch with my feelings anyway at that age, and it just felt so awful, and it hadn't been normalized because the shows that I was watching at that age, those networks weren't talking about things like that on a regular basis. That just was
not normal. But man, if that had become a normal part of my life at sixteen seventeen when I came to Wilmington, if I had just looked for some alan on meetings to just jump into and maintain this sense of accountability and anonymity, but also being able to recognize there were plenty of other people in the room who feel just like me, because you feel so much less isolated when you're we get to know you weren't exactly You're just in a room full of strangers. I don't
need to know everything about their life. We don't need to be best friends. But to hear two minutes of somebody's story about how they're struggling and how they're coping, how they're feeling today, if they're feeling great, if they're feeling terrible, it's like, oh my god, I am a part of the humanity. I'm part of the human experiences. It absolutely would have been life changing. You're right, I wish I had.
Yeah, and I do too. I mean I think about, like, you know, I tried to start doing therapy. I don't know, halfway through our third season and with our hours, I could never go like, there aren't there at this office that can work around a seventeen hour you know, a day schedule. Yeah, and I didn't know about alan On. I didn't. I didn't know about any of those things then,
And I don't know. I guess it's a really it's like it's kind of a long way around to get back to the point, but it's profound for us to watch now and like we're forty imagine what it would have been like then. I don't know. I almost wonder like if anyone is listening, I wonder if any of the fans of our show had an AHA moment watching this episode, like seeing a meeting and going, I think I need that, you know, the way.
We have a union rep come to set like once, Yeah, it would be great if there was just an alan On rep ye who popped by and was like, Hey, there's so.
Much addiction in Hollywood and in our like it's rampant all around. To have somebody specifically from alan On would have been great.
And and for as rampant as addiction is, so is recovery.
Amen.
I love this wrong.
And you know, there's a kind of as a large school thought that says, you know, the opposite of addiction isn't isn't abstinence or sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection. Yeah, you know. And there's this science experiment that was done and this guy he took one hundred rap or he took rats individually, right, and he had two like water things where like like sippers, and one of them had morphine in it, and individually, like I think ninety nine
percent of the rats ended up overdosing. And I mean put them he tried to switch up, and he said, I wonder if I put them all in like a communal like a community sort of structure, so they're all together and still provide the same options, and the overdose drop to like zero one percent.
Whoa.
And so it was just kind of it was the beginning of this conversation of you know, the opposite of addiction is community, and like, so what you were talking about, joy, It's like it's about connection, because that's the thing. It's so icolated. You know, and as soon as you hear your story coming out of someone else's mouth, it allows you to sort of take that weight off your chest
of like, oh, I'm not alone, uniquely broken. Yeah, this struggle is actually calmon like I have teammates, you know, and that's when recovery becomes a team sport, you know, as opposed to I think a lot of people go into a thinking like I got I got to figure out this on my own. This is an in house job, which is a losing problem.
Yeah, and it's harder for people to use it and weaponize your your issues against you if you realize that you're just one of many, that it's there's a normalcy to it that we're all just trying to figure out.
Yeah, you know.
Also, I just I love the irony of your mom dropping you off. Granted I don't know anything about your family, but the irony of like a mom dropping her sixteen year old off at an alan On meeting, having no idea she's planting the seeds to a lot of her own stuff.
Yeah, Yeah, for sure, it's.
Like, mom, this is gonna work, but not.
Yeah, you're like, are you ready to talk about family structure and trauma because if not, don't open this direct.
I wanted to bring up the first moment we see with you excuse me with brilliant You in Austin. Yes, on set, it was a really speaking of good teammates. You two are so it just infinitely likable and so great together. But I loved this moment right because I love a vulnerable guy give me all that all time, yes, And I love when he's like, hey, can I ask you a question? I can like only ask you and I'm like, what is this going to be about? And he just goes, am I doing a hand and man,
that hit me in the heart. I was like, I believe that. I love that and that was just such good partnering. And then the way that Brooke responds to him is just so sweet and loving. But that was such a good peak behind the curtain of like where you guys were still at that I just thought was so great.
Yeah, it was. It was really fun to play this this kind of time. Obviously, it's you know, there's there's sort of sadness to disrupted relationship. And I thought a lot about watching you know, Brooke and Mouth and Hailey on the couch A trick because she's like, I just don't know, you know, maybe we just don't work. We've all been there right where you're like, God, I really love this person and like, I just don't know if
it works. And I made a note in my notes where I was like, I love that Hailey, especially our friend you know, who's on camera, been married since she was sixteen. It's like, go get him, make it work. And I'm like that works for Niley, but like for most of us in the real world, like it doesn't work more often than it does. And yet what sort of hit me as being so sweet?
And I laughed.
I was like, I really love that everyone's encouraging Brooke to, like, you know, put the walls down and be vulnerable and lean in. What I see watching this is like the fun that Austin and I got to have together, and you know, now all these years later, like the friendship
we've had since we were twenty three years old. And I like watching these two trying to figure it out because I see versions of who I was and who he was and who all of us were in that push and pull, and I kind of, you know, I oh, this is what I wrote in my notes. I was like, of course we give the rom comm answer of like, no matter what, figure it out, which like, lol, maybe
rom coms for the reason everyone's in therapy. But I also I just love that we got to watch a struggle that wasn't related to some crazy dramatic event or an affair or a car accident or whatever, that it was really two people trying to figure out if they could be emotionally compatible, you know, could they feel safe together, could they learn to communicate better? Could they build a life together? And I like that it wasn't an easy answer.
Yeah, it seems like for Brooke there's been so much volatility and relationships, and there was with Julian because of this his savior complex issues and the situation with Alex. But I really really like seeing Brooke being willing to make space for somebody else's flaws like she had, you know, she's been that's the whole thing, choose me, pick me
right for her that she does deserve that. But also, as you say, like there's a lot of gray in life, there's a lot of just humanity and messiness that we try and sort through, and it's really cool. I'm still irritated with Julian I don't know why he keeps making bad Alex decisions like let me walk out of your room? Are you affing idiot? I just can't wrap my brain around it. But that's his that's his deal. Like, okay, okay, man,
you're working through your stuff. Yeah, there's a softness, there's like a real this is a totally different side of book that we're seeing in a consistent way. This has been like four episodes now maybe five that you're really just softer.
It's interesting. Yeah, and I like it, and I like I saw kind of a parallel obviously different you know, relationship stage and different issues, but in the same way that I really loved what Clay and Quinn weren't saying in the gallery, I really loved what Brooke and Julian
weren't saying about the sweater. Johnny Norris did such a good job writing these scenes for us that we got to talk with so much subtext, and you know, Brooks telling him he's got to dress a little warmer on set and you know, it's your sweater anyway, and these things.
But she's saying, I know you're tired and it's cold in here, and I'm worried about you and I love you, and he's telling her that, you know, she can always sit in his chair, and you know, he's saying like you're in the chair, like you're in my person, and they can't say it.
And that's good writing. That's when you know the writer trust the actors they're writing there did They just write the words and they know that you know the subtext and they trust you to do it. Because if the scene was just about a chair in a sweater, everyone would be bored, exactly.
But hold on. Speaking of the wardrobe, first of all, shout out to the actual, real life One Tree Hill wardrobe.
Yes, yeah, the big warehouse, our warehouse, listeners, that was our actual wardrobe warehouse.
What I loved about that First my first thought was like, oh my gosh, that was our actual wardrobe. And then my second thought was it's hilarious to me that a low budget indie with presumably about two actors in it had a warehouse of wardrobe that because just so you know, on an indie that size, you would have maybe one rack of wardrobe for like, yeah, all of the.
You'd have half a trailer full of clothes, and we had. We had seven seasons worth plus like all the Dawson's Creek leftover totally plus any other show that had ever shot at screen, gems.
In a where else movie Magic, It's gotta look big and bold. No, honestly, it was just cheaper than creating a set full of like a like a half a trailer, like a realistic movie set that would have looked so puny too. I think the audience would have been like, wait, why do they have like six clothes on a hanger?
Yeah, hanging rack.
And what you were saying about the going for it the one thing I like. You know, the show does a lot that thing where it's like on the act out of one scene, someone will be saying a line that then feeds into the act in of another scene. We sort of had a similar thing with the through line of people encouraging each other to go. And what I really liked about that was I'm a big believer in like I'll take regret over excuse me, I'll take failure over regret any day, like ten out of ten times,
you know, And so I liked it. It was kind of this like who cares, like, go for it, shoot your shot mentality. So I really appreciated that I was surprised by some of the shots taken though.
Same sure.
Okay, first of all, I'm watching every Miss Lauren and Mouth scene for the past three episodes, and I've been saying this in the podcast, going did anyone feel like they were about to kiss? And then this episode I'm doing the same thing. I'm like, Gang, what are we doing? First of all, does she have no friends? She's just like become a best friend of Mouth?
How does he not know that she's not talking to skills? How is that? First of all, he asks her to what pick up lunch? Okay, so she brings over lunch, so they're going to hang out and she's like, oh, what are you doing? Playing video games? Okay? So what was their plan? I don't know why. I wish I remembered how we tried to make sense out of this, because it didn't make sense to me even today.
Well and it was so jarring that it took me out of it, and I was like, wait, was Antoine making a movie?
Like?
Where was Antoine? We sent him to la to like make you know, the sports coordinating thing happen, but like, really, where was he? And obviously Alison Munn is the greatest human alive, So like, duh, we wanted to never let her leave set. Yeah, but I was like, how are we not? Why isn't she hanging out with like Brooke and Haley All yeah, like her other friends. It's just
weird because it's so fun to have her. But they do have great chemistry, and because we only see them together over the span of all these episodes, it gets to a point where as an audience member, you're like, well, are you trying to tell me they have more than friend chemistry because at this point it feels like you are, yeah, what's going on here? And it does feel confusing.
Well, and we've never seen either of them, separately or together have one of those moments of like, oh, is this maybe more than just buds? So that's why it was so as an audience member, I'm watching it, going, this is strange. There's something not being addressed. I don't quite get. So that's why it was odd for me. When fast forward to the end of the episode, mouth speech isn't to Millie, it's to miss Lauren at her door. Yeah,
I just thought like, where why have I not seen him? Like, have you know a lingering smile at her or yes, any sort of like any sort of runway to get.
You needed any the George and Elaine without Jerry episode, remember that, no, George and Elaine go out without Jerry. Jerry's like he can't go to the movie whatever, He's stuck, and they're both out like this is so awkward. We don't hang out with each other without Jerry. What do we do? But then you know they make friends by the end of the episode. Of course, well not of course,
but anyway, that's what we needed. We needed this like moment of the two of them kind of being thrust into a situation together where they're like, oh, actually we do have a lot in common in spite of the fact that you're we never really hung out outside of skills, Like I kind of like you, let's hang out more exactly.
It would have been so great if at any point they'd been like, I'm really glad I have you to talk to, but is it weird that I'm talking to about all this stuff since we've never really hung out before, and the other person could have been like, no, it's honestly such a relief to me.
Like I you know, something, to acknowledge that it was weird would have I think brought the whole audience along better.
I wonder if fans felt that too, Like, are we just feeling it because we are watching the episodes so quickly and back then it was all really stretched out.
That might be part of it.
I just wonder if the fans felt that way too, if they by the end of the episode they were like, oh what okay.
So that's our second question. So first one obviously only if you feel comfortable sharing with us, and we would never reveal personal details anyway, but if if anyone was like whoa when they saw a meeting and they remember it being impactful back then, we'd love to know. And question number two, were you all completely confused by Mouth and miss Lauren also or are we nuts the people? The people want to know who girlies and the boy want to know?
Yeah? Because also am.
I am I not remembering correctly that there's like Mouth has a moment of saying it's complicated with Millie, like he's confiding to someone, right, because we see the opposite side of it with Milli and Owen, where.
He's like, yeah, no, Mouth has a moment of saying something the effect of, you know, like we're off or like we're just misfire something right, and then Milly has the same moment. So it was just it felt out of left field, like the like I feel like the audience member understood it more than the case ter did.
And yeah, it's interesting to me because I remember feeling this kind of like, ah, this is when you were going to get the landscape or joy. Rob and I were talking about there's that great scene where you come in and sit with Brooke and Mouth on the couch and it's like, tell me that, you know, spill the tea,
let's talk all the things. And it made me go, wait a second, why haven't we seen Mouth talking to Brook about Milly or Brook and Millie hanging out at all, Like I don't know, it's weird to me that the people aren't leaning on each other a little more, but I guess that's what happens when you have so many actors on a shan twenty two episodes.
I think that's probably part of the casualty of so
many actors, so many storylines and twenty two episodes. And it wasn't, as I understand it, a terribly happy writer's room, and so I think there was probably just ah no, Yeah, So I would imagine there's just some things that there wasn't a real symbiosis happening, not a lot of Uh, there wasn't really a groove for people to get into with some of these storylines, and so they couldn't plan ahead too far, I think, and then you never know if an actor is going to be available or not,
and so then you have to pivot if they're not. I think there was just a lot on the fly, and then that those are the kinds of things that happened. Suddenly they've got to speed up a storyline that makes no sense that they've laid no groundwork for, and we've seen this a lot before.
I also feel like there might be some truth to us simply not wanting to lose Alison. Yeah, oh yes, she's so great, because this story does just kind of feel weird. It sort of just feels a bit like not a placeholder, but like, all right, what can we do? You know? It's yes, yes, yes, and she's so darn
good in it. That makes sense why you'd want to keep her because you don't want to lose her, But it's sort of like, yeah, I don't know why Yeah, it feels like they there was a question mark over everyone's schedules and they just sort of went, let's just find something for Alison to make sure that we don't lose her to a different show.
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense because she was super in demand too. I mean that girl book's pilots, like I book plane tickets, I mean on and on.
Nice Best Armstrong.
Yes, can we talk about Best Armstrong is.
The real deal man. For those who don't know, Bess Armstrong played Lydia and just she's so good. She's so so good and Joey, you have so many great scenes with her. Thanks and the way that you shot it and it was written. I just loved it, you know, cause we are we're a soap, you know, like we tend to like swing for the fences and high highs and low lows, and this just felt like a very grounded, honest portrayal of a family, like grieving and adapting in
real time. Yeah, and she's just so was it tough doing You had a great scene it was just the two of you.
On the couch.
By the way, Joy, you also had a scene where you're on the couch with your shoes on and you're sitting on your feet, explain yourself. Oh and before we get into like the really important stuff, did you also notice in the scene with Alex and Alex after the one night stand, clearly, listeners go back and watch this, every pillow on that bed is either a throw pillow or a couch pillow. Set deck clearly had no normal pillows, and they were like, no one's gonna be looking at that.
Go back and look at every pillow on the bed is the ugliest hotel room couch pillow you've et hed.
Yeah, there's not like the two rear pillows that are for sleeping. It's just the sleep.
I can't believe I missed that. I'm such a detail oriented person. That's really funny. I must have been. I was so tied up with getting that shot in particular. I remember we were we were running out of time, and there were a lot of things. I was like, I really wanted to be a time efficient director because I wanted them to keep bringing me back. So there were scenes I was like, what can we do in
one or two shots? And that was one of the scenes that it was like, I think it was a three shot scene, but the close ups on the two of them, we probably did in two takes and the rest of it was on one camera. And that, yeah, there was a there was a lot of maneuvering around for that. So I'm sure I didn't notice the pillows, but dang it, I wish I had pillows.
I also just love that as someone who lived in New York for as long as you did, like this is how you realize we walked to set in like ugs or slippers, and then you put on your wardrobe heels on set because none, none of us would ever wear our outside shoes on a furnature to the house, let alone onto the furniture or never appalling.
No, but remember we had that fit. Maybe you weren't here. So if there was a fan who wrote in a question was asking us, I noticed that you guys put your shoes on. You wear your shoes on the couch, or you walk on the rug or whatever with your shoes. And I think it was that we don't have a lot of time, Like you can't just be taking your shoes on and off for every moment I've ever seen. Plus people are creatd.
Because during filming it's a huge height differential. Oh yeah, and we were like one of the only shows in history, in the history of Hollywood with tall boys. You had to wear high heels to act opposite teams. I had to wear high heels to act opposite Austin. They weren't going to like build us step blocks to get into close ups where they could see us over the boy's shoulders, so we wore stilettos every day. It was ridiculous.
I think I imagined that those sets were like I've never had a one of those houses that you walk into and everything's always in its place all the time. I have friends who, every time I go to their house, I'm like, what do you How do you do this? Because I'm definitely messy. So I think I imagine Nathan and Haley's house being one of the super pristine homes that like, there's just fairies that come and clean up after you if you put your shoes on the couch.
Yes, called set. By the way, this I didn't know what it was until you know, later in life, obviously because we both got our diagnoses later in life. But in the world of learning about being neurodivergent, and when it's like, oh, yeah, do you have little piles everywhere, and I was like, oh, no, we do. And you're like, no, what my little piles or my organizing system. And now like my partner affectionately will be like, are you stressed
the little squirrel? Look at all your little piles and acorns around the house and I'm like, m.
Hmm, just saving up for winter. But you know where everything is in everybody.
You know where everything is. And I didn't know how weird that was to people whose brains aren't wired like ours. Yeah, until people were like, isn't this anxiety inducing? And I was like, that is like spatial xanax for me.
What do you mean this is for anxiety by exactly?
I was like, this is actually called a coping mechanism.
Yes, high functioning anxiety has many appearances.
This certainly does well. Bess Armstrong was I was. She was so lovely and open and made directing her really easy. She's such a mom, she's such an encourager and really you know she had ideas, but she it's interesting as an older woman to be directed, Like, if I had a twenty three year old directing me right now, I hope that I would treat her the way best treated me, Like she really it's it's interesting to listen to the leadership of someone who's younger than you and really trust
that they know what they're doing. And especially as an actor, you know, you want to put your best foot forward. You want to be represented in the best way, and to trust that somebody knows what they're doing and they're not going to make you look like a fool. She really trusted me, and it meant so much to me. We had a great chemistry, We had an ease in our way with each other in the scenes, and yeah, it was easy. We just sort of dropped in and said the lines, and I don't think we did too
many takes. It was just like, just say what's on the page. It's what you were talking about at the beginning of the episode. Rob, Like, just it's great writing. Let good actors do what they do.
Yeah, you guys brought it. That scene was very, very touching and just honest. I love that. The scene with Jamie, Her and Jamie was also very sweet. I was sitting in there noting, like, gosh, this is a great scene. And then it ends in a funny way though it takes a hot it's Lydia and Jamie in his room, I think, and they're looking at pictures. I think there's an actual picture of you from childhood. I believe think
it's an actual, real life to a picture. And then yet it takes a real hard left when she's like, ps, I'm going to be dead by Christmas. I shouldn't say it that way. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but she basically was like, I love celebrating Christmas with you, Unfortunately I'm not going to be here this year.
The look on his face, the look on his face.
I let out an audible oof yeah, and I heard myself and then made myself laugh, and I was like, oh, this this really. Yeah, she's not she's not wearing any gloves. She's just going to say the thing.
Yeah, I really, it's so hit. The look on his face, he was like so confused. And then this is actually kind of amazing that a kid this young was capable of making that transition, because he was looking confused, and then it hit him and he realized like, whoa, you're saying you're going to be dead, But he didn't overact. I mean, that's kind of hard for a kid to make that big, weighty transition and not overact great.
Yeah, he really just let it happen. And you know what I loved in a way is that the heaviness of that scene that we all went whoa. It gave such an honest motivation to your scene with her. And I loved that she said you're angry. She said either like you're angry or you're mad, and you were like, I'm not, I'm upset it And it let you guys have a conversation that, sadly we know is so universal for so many people who experience illness in their family.
And you were like wanting to fix it and wanting a second opinion and wanting the thing and wanting Nathan's doctors to look. And she got to be like, you're not listening to me. I want to enjoy the time I have left.
I know what.
It is.
So hard.
And I felt so much for both of you because I know that I would do exactly what Hailey was doing, and that if I were in Lydia's position, I would say exactly what Lydia was saying to Haleyeh. And it was I just thought like, Wow, I bet so many people feel really seen by this.
The scene with her and James too, I really love Oh that broke my heart.
I thanked her.
Yeah, so simple, it was exactly so simple, right, like just let the words do the talking. It was so good. But but going back the thing with Jamie, that the reason why I bumped on it is because so often people get diagnosed, or not even diagnose, they get given sort of you have this many months to live, like everyone in their family has a story of like the grandma who was told she had six months to live
and she lived for fifteen years. Yeah, so I just felt like it was a little premature to tell the nine year old I'm for sure gonna be dead as disco by Christmas. And it's like, okay, I know your doctor said that, but like there's a shot, there's a shot, there's a world in which you're not you know what I mean, Like.
Can we just can we give it a second before we tell the show.
We've only got two more episodes with me, honey, so please get yourself ready.
There it is, there, it is.
It's like, Rob, I wish you'd been there to be like, it's not even in double digits.
I know, come on, Kitty gloves it best just a little oh guys.
Fun the other look on Jackson's face too, when he came in and said, I don't want Grandma to die.
Oh.
Also, really good, really good performance, so simple. Yeah, I was impressed with him in this episode.
He was really great. And you know what I loved too. They really gave everybody a lot, a lot of these moments I'm realizing where they got to say a lot in not so many words. And you saw that in a lot of Jackson's performances, which obviously are a big deal for a kid his age at the time to be able to pull off. And in the same way that I felt like Nathan was so sto in the best way with Lydia, you see him do it with Jamie.
It's like they really gave James such simple things to say, and James showed up in exactly that incredibly supportive this is not my moment to lead, it's my moment to hold you up from behind kind of energy. And even when he finds Jackson cleaning out his toys, it was such an interesting choice you guys made. I don't know if it was in the script or it was something you decided on, but to have a little boy cleaning out his toys because he's about to not be such
a little boy anymore. And instead of saying, hey, you know, buddy, we really got to talk about this or tell me how you're feeling. Don't cover it up, James, you could see him realize what was going on, and he just said, I'm here if you need me. Yeah, And it was so nice, you know, met by a kid who's behaving in a and you know, an emotional kind of salty way to be like whenever you've done whatever you're doing, I'm here for you. Yeah.
I was like, man, that's really nice good parenting.
And also how relatable, like, oh, you're having big feelings, so you're busying yourself with a household activity.
Yep, yeah we all do that.
Yeah. Yeah, I stress clean, I sad clean, I big feeling clean all the time.
Yeah, huh yeah. I think that was something we decided to do. I wonder if I still have the script, I'd like to go look, because yeah, I feel like there was a lot of just sitting in a room together, Like Jamie's sitting on his bed and we come in and sit down next to him and have a talk. And I feel like that's what I do I busy myself. If I don't want to deal with something, I just clean or whatever.
Yeah, I'm interesting in my cabinet. Yes, yeah, I'm like everything in here needs I.
Have a question. Have we met Josh before the lead actor? And now it felt odd that we didn't. We were just supposed to get who this guy was, and.
He had been in a group setting on the set the episode before. Oh, he was there in sort of the in the cast like people standing around set, so we saw him, but it was very brief and probably not memorable enough for it. It wasn't for the intro.
And what I loved was the choice that you guys made to shoot him coming in in slow motion, handing things off, being handed other things. It was so clear like, oh, this is the douchey yng star guy.
Well that's why, because we didn't have any history with him. I was like, the audience is gonna have no idea who this guy is if he just walks up to the craft service table. I need to like introduce him. People need to understand who he is and what his personality is ahead of time.
Yeah.
It was almost a way of seeing how he saw himself. Yes, which was a great like, Okay, I think I know who you are.
You know, oh, we know you.
Yeah, this didn't happen in real life, but this for sure happened in your head.
Yeah.
That was Paul Teal And he played Noah in my version of the Notebook. When we did the workshop of the Notebook in Wilmington, he was our Noah and he was so good and so he was already there and around a lot. And I think the Vin Cannons when they knew they had this part coming up, they had seen him in my show and called him into audition. So it was really fun to see him actually on
screen too. But he totally has that like he kind of reminded me of Ryan Phillippy a little bit and had this like real he just knew how to play douche real well. It worked for me.
Was there ever, I just I was shocked on our show when we had a legitimate opportunity to show more people in their underwear that we didn't take it. Was there ever a scene of shooting a love scene in the movie. No, because like, we shoehorn as much gratuitous flesh to the show as we can, and here we had a big sex scene being shot between Alex and Josh and you ready see it and I thought, you're right, huh. And then it's like, but the episode went, Okay, we made a mistake. Here's India and Lauder.
Yeah.
Oh man, that was a rough one.
Yeah, tell me about you having because as I watched, I thought, I'm curious how Joy and India talked through this and did this.
We had a big disagreement about this. Actually, India and I. I I love her by the way, like I hang out with her mom when I go to London. India is amazing. But that day it was you know, she she was pretty new. She and I had worked together. I think we had one or two scenes together, and then she started working mostly with grubs and I had envision.
I was like, let's give her a real acting moment where she's she's been doing so much posturing as Miranda, and I want to give her this moment where she comes out and it turns out all of her posturing, she just has like normal granny panties and like a really uninteresting bra, and she comes out and she's just still super confident. And India was adamantly against this, and we kept kind of going back and forth between wardrobe,
like no, I really want this. Is this really I think will feel really great for the character, And then it would come back to me India is really uncomfortable with that. She doesn't want to do it. And then I was like, okay, let me. It was going back and forth too much. I just went back went over to her trailer and I was like, hey, let's it's better if we talk face to face what's going on. And I don't know how much of what the women on set experience with our boss carried into India's journey
as well. I haven't talked with her much about it, but she was so.
Uh.
She was so nervous about the possibility of having to really come to set in a real set of underwear, and she was like, if I if I could come to set in something that feels more like a costume, I can settle into this more. It still feels like it works for the character, and I just please, like, woman to woman, this is what really feels more comfortable to me. And that was that's it. You know, sometimes it just takes a face to face conversation. It was like, done,
you got it, That's what we'll do. That's fine, and it worked. It worked great. Like she she came out, she was boss, she looked amazing, she was she committed to it. But why why did we need India in
her underwear in this episode? It's so unnecessary And you're right, Rob, If it belonged anywhere, it would have been in a comedic setting of Alex and this Josh character trying to figure out their love scene, and instead we've got what like, We've got Miranda walking around trying to prove vulnerability, and it was just so awkward.
We even have a scene of Julian referencing how the sex scene went exactly and a funny thing happened, so it's like, wait, what you know.
What's really interesting about that is the Julian reference and like making it funny, I know is referential to something that happened on our set that really wasn't funny, and it really irked me. I was like, God, I hate that we're making jokes about this and watching it's so
interesting to hear that I didn't. I didn't remember you and India's conversation in like the larger context I wrote in my notes, I remembered how uncomfortable she was, and how nervous she was and what the pressure was and what was written into the script for her to be wearing, and you know how everyone was like, what do we do about the expectation from the boss and whatever whatever? And when I watched her walk out watching this episode, I was like, oh my god. I remembered her being
like the boss gets what's being demanded. And also, if I'm wearing these black stockings, I'm almost wearing pants, yes, And how we be less naked yes. And what I loved seeing her do it now from this vantage point is I got to see it all in greater context because obviously at the time we were all just like, god,
this is so infuriating, terrible. And she plays so much of her stuff with Grubs in this episode, with like a very masculine swagger, even the way she grabs his beard and he thinks she's being cute, and then she disses it, like all these things and she's I mean, she went clodstonped down there in that outfit and was like, I'm hot, what do you want from me? And I
was like, oh my god. She really took this thing that made her uncomfortable and made it so bossed, powerful and ironically walked down in lingerie but managed to have so much of her body cover yep, And I was like, I want to give India a high five today. So smart, you guys crushed it. I'm so glad she had you as a director for that.
She's so smart.
It was just great.
Yeah, she saw something that I couldn't see and when she explained it to me, it made total sense. And it just goes to show what a brilliant business woman she is too. Guys, if you aren't following India de Beaufort, you really should go follow her on Instagram. She's just really fun to watch anyway. It's so a talented singer and stylist and like really interesting.
I was just going to say her styling video now, I just didn't want anytime I have to go on a trip, I'm like, what should I wear? I need to go see why smart pop.
A bag of popcorn and just sit and watch those like one after it was so fun.
I need her to have a show.
No, Yeah, she's awesome. So that was that went better than it would have if I had been on my own. So good on her.
Yeah, you guys did such a good job. I'm so glad that for her, in particular with that storyline, she had you as a director, Like, it was so important for you to direct the you know, Haley and Quinn and Taylor storyline with Lydia. Yeah, and I think it was also really important for you you to be, you know, one of us directing, one of us going through what we went through with our boss. I think that was really banks special.
When she walks out and the hardcore rock and roll guitar riff came on, I had I just I face palmed, like talk about hat on a hat, you know. It was like I just laughed, going, oh yeah, totally Joy picked out the heavy duty guitar riff from when the girl was like get out of here, man.
You know what, though in some ways that that might have been Lindsay Wilfington additionally protecting India and making it even more campy.
Yes, well, now that I hear what you're saying about it's like a costume she's wearing. You're a hundred percent right, Yeah, it completely makes sense. But when it first happened in the moment, I was like, as if we need to like highlight this anymore. It's like yea, yeah, Okay, audience, here's what this is.
Can we also just address the red hair dye that was must have been in the water in Wilmington, because first of all, so if you were the only one without this red in your hair, somehow you manage to get your hair like an ashy brown.
Finally, but that's part of why we dyed my hair so dark, because everyone's hair was running so red, like even Middle East for you guys, yes, the last you guys to play siblings. They were like, it works, but they started overdying my hair.
I was born. This was like, we're an aerial little Mermaid territory. We're in, like the when you go to emoji Mermaid on your phone where it's like purple red, Like, this is the territory we're in. For Haley, I don't really don't know what happened.
Part of that is also, though, the color timing, because remember they call timed our show so warm. I mean it changed the color of people's eyes.
Yeah, that's true.
They turned the warm saturation up so much on our show that I promise you your hair was red, but it didn't look like Ariel in person.
I promise there were a couple of shots. I was like, did they just dump an entire bottle of Hennah in my hair? And like like iodie io, iodyned one hundred percent that's the color.
Right before we wrap up, I gotta give a shout out to how funny the scene was with uh Brooke and Victoria when she's talking about how I've taken a lover.
Yes, that's my honorable mention.
All of that was great. Then Brooke and Julian, when Brooke tells Julian about it and he's like, why are you telling me this? And Brooks like, because I had to endure it, so you have to endure it. Yeah.
Yeah, we can be traumatized together.
We can be traumatized together? Is so good? And then are we supposed to gather that Paul stood up Victoria at the end. Is that why she's sitting at a table by herself?
I guess so that was a little vague too.
I don't quite remember that.
And I'm also assuming that here's the question I had. So of course, when Julian's like, I'll walk you to your room, I'm like, dude, can you know, just one time, can you learn a lesson? Can you adapt? Please? But and then when Brooke walks in, obviously Alex is laying in bed naked. I think I know where the trick is is that I'm guessing next episode we're going to find out that he switched rooms with her because she wants her to get sleep exactly.
All right, listeners, we have a listener question from Chelsea. Nathan says to Lydia, you were responsible for raising the woman that changed my entire world. My question is, Wow, this is loaded. Who do you think had the most impact on your life? Wow? Thanks Chelsea.
That's a big question, big one.
I don't think I could give that to one particular person, like the best positive impact on your life.
Yeah, there's so many, there's like so many versions of that. And I also would like to think, because we're not all in our mid eighties, we don't know the final answer to.
My question like that too, you know, Yeah, so many, there's so many different mentors, so many people. There's people I haven't even met that have made a huge impact on my life. There's people, I mean, our parents always make a huge impact. I don't know, don't I honestly don't know if I have an answer for this.
I don't I don't have an MVP.
Yeah, there's just too many.
Listen. It genuinely took a village to get this guy. Wory is so yeah man, Team sport Yeah.
I like that. Team Sport. Yeah, let's spin a wheel.
Friends scrolling most likely to plan their high school reunions?
Not it?
Absolutely? Hillary? Yeah, yeah, sure, none of us. Definitely, not any of the three of us, but her.
Yes, by that.
How about a character on the show.
Miss Lauren, probably, don't you think?
And I was going to say pre her struggle Millie?
Yeah, Lauren and Millie really could have been great friends. I could see the two of them cheaming up to plan a high school reunion.
Sure.
I also love that we read the question and all three of us were like, not it, and then we thought about our characters. We were like, not it. I love us, all right, Cuties. Next week we will be in season seven, episode eighteen, Last Day of our Acquaintance. I just remembered what the episode's about, and I got so sad.
Yeah, that's right.
Clay dies his hair.
Wait, we didn't talk about Clay and Katie. Hold on, two seconds. We gotta spend like, give me ninety seconds on Clay and Katie Ky, this is crazy. Did you know this was coming?
I mean when you read the script, were you like, what are we doing?
Come on? I remember reading this and going, oh, I wonder who they're gonna get, Like that's a tricky cast, like a I wonder who they're gonna get. And they're like, good news, we got a man to shool like for the same we're gonna just soap opera this, and I just they're like, don't worry, we have a fix. And apparently the fix was dyeing her hair like two shades different.
You're like, yeah, but what about her same face.
Yeah, it's funny because that last shot of Clay when it's just that look of like what I think was just me in real life, going wait what.
Also, he walks up to her while she This is my mistake obviously as a director, but you walk up to her while she's playing tennis, like excuse me, in the middle of a tennis match, like she's hitting balls and turns around like.
Maybe Clay is just in such shock that he loses all sort of like the corn propriety.
Yeah, it's the beginning of the fugue state.
Oh my gosh, I'm dready. Okay, it's gonna be great. It's all gonna be great.
Gang.
Wow right, Yes, this was a This was an interesting turn of events that I'm sure nothing crazy will come of it, you know.
No, Okay, obsessed, Thanks for joining us, Gang, Thanks, y hey, thanks for listening.
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O t.
H or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com. See you next time.
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