Hindsight is 20-22 • EP318

o t h dot com. You can get tickets to the live stream. Are amazing team at my Heart has made this globally available because we want you guys to be there with us, whether your butts are in those theater seats or in your most comfortable sea here at Family. We want you with us, and you guys are going to have the best of both shows because we have different guests that each one of our New York City shows.

So you were going to get Barbara Allen Woods, Daphne's and Ega, tie R Hilton and Matt bar All for what twenty three dollars? Hey do it? It's our lucky number. You know what I mean. That's what I'm saying. Visit Drama Queens ot h dot com to get your tickets to the live stream today. First of all, you don't we all about that high school drama? Girl Drama, Girl all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic Girl Cheering for the Right Drama,

Queens up Girl Fashion. But you'll tough, girl. You could sit with us. Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, John mc Queen's Drama, Queens Get Sun kissed Him. Let's I know, Let's kicks to a club? Is this us starting? Are we recording right now at the top of the episode. This might be the top of the episode. You know what. That's why our listeners like it here because we're honest. Honestly, I think I think you guys hearing us bitching is

that's the moment we should start with because it is authentic. Um, you guys, this episode what Yeah? Lee wrote on friends and when we can take this out if we want to. But fy i, he wrote on Friends. He wrote on he just wrote He's all that the news, She's all that remake. Hm um, but I'm a cheerleader with what's her face? Leone? Yeah, it does feel like a Mark sabotage job then, because I like that. Yeah, he's probably I think he's probably a pretty good writer, but you know,

and get over it. That fun one with Kirsten Dunst. Oh. Yeah, so it feels like then the the fun scenes were probably Lee and then all the weird stuff was kind of cut and pasted in the past, like like you like walking into somebody's house who has to remember all the things they have to do in a week, and there's just post it's all over the mir my office. Yeah, you're just like, okay, so you can absorb all the things at the same time, but it's uh, they don't

really cohesively go together. And yeah, if you don't get him in order, you don't have a story. Right, there's no story. It's just pieces. Joy give us the rundown of this episode. This okay, all right, we do have like an official rundown here. It is so episode eighteen of season three when it isn't like it should be kind of like this episode. Uh. It aired April five, two six. The group heads to Rachel's cabin as they try to get back to normal. Nathan wants to give

Hayley perfect proposal. Pete Wentz surprises Peyton and hangs with the crew. Rachel and Brooks rivalry reignites with a secret cabinet and it sounds like the magic show of the wardrobe we needed for Coats So Cold. Um where am I gives Rachel for the time capsule and meanwhile back in tree Hill, Karen is still angry over keithstaf The scene we all decided was the only reason to watch this episode really, um, because she's such a beast of

an actress. That was amazing, But we'll get there. I'm sure. Um. We didn't hate it. It was fine. It was like this is I mean, it was fun. It was just a little like what it's just jointed. It had were very cute and we got our iconic By the way, I didn't even realize that the iconic moment of the four of us girls and Pete doing our makeup was just a one or it's a momush scene. I was like, oh, there's no scene there, and it's like one of our

favorite memories, which feels insane. There were things that were very sweet but man, this one we an this was a big episode. They had come they had entertainment tonight come that that that's where that photo came from. Not entertainment, was that it there was some er tape of Weekly maybe some big magazine was there. That's where that photo came from. There was like a big magazine on set, and they came to do these They came to do photos. You know, this isn't so familiar, no, because so for us.

The thing that was glaring about this episode is that the dialogue and some of the writing was like what it was like student film? Not good? Yeah, first time right or not good? The episode also couldn't decide what it wanted to be, like are we going to a cabin in the woods to go a t ving or are we going to a club night to you know, be underage drinkers in a bar? Like? Is it about DJs?

Is it about the wilderness? Like? And then there's poor Pete Wentz, who you know is our contemporary and to repeat, the nicest person, but had to play like a guy in his twenties hitting out a high school girl talking to her about how she can't have tattoos because her dad will be mad like, oh god, everything about this was wrong. This one does not age well. Friends, It just sure doesn't. I couldn't get over high schoolers sitting around drinking wine, Like wine is on the list of

any high schooler in the world. They can't stand the taste of that usually, I mean, kids are like, that's like an acquired taste to your joy. I think a large part of this episode was all promotional materials because I had sun kissed in there. It had a very famous rock star. We literally said you're a rock star three hundred and seventy two times in this episode, just to remind people at home. Um, you know, we had

all these kind of gimmicks happening in the episode. So I feel like there was something happening promotional wise, like

there was like business happening behind the scenes. And it does feel like, you know, Lee Fleming wrote this episode, who has written a lot of very amazing scripts, not even on our show, like other projects that are great and fun and successful, and it it kind of feels and you know, we're hypothesizing here, but it feels like Lee turned in a script and then at the sort of upper levels, it was like, well, we gotta put this in, we gotta insert this, we gotta get people

sun kissed in, and suddenly it's like a collage project that is not very good. Now, how many hot tub scenes were there? I mean it was like, hell, I was reading a letter in the hot tub. Joy and I were in the hot tub. Bevan and Skills were getting in the hot tub. Rachel and Mouth were in the hot tub. Yeah, that's what I can remember. And

it killed me that. It just killed me. We had that amazing lake location and they just put lucas in Nathan on the boat fishing having a totally meaningless conversation for like two seconds. That should have been I would love to have either seen uh Skills in Bevan stuck on the boat in the middle with no oars when we get to watch their whole conversation the whole time, or have Nathan proposed to Haley on the boat out and the thing. You know, like, there could have been

something really meaningful with that location. It was so beautiful and instead it just it did feel real. Yeah, but you can't be in a bathing suit in the boat, Joy, Like, they're not gonna get naked girls in the boat, So let's just kick it back to the hot tub that our art department had to put in the front yard of that beautiful house. By the way, My favorite thing

that happened with the hot tub in this episode. It wasn't even used, but Hillary, you and Pete went walking out of the house and you say, thanks for going on this walk with me. My doctor says, it's really good therapy for my leg. You guys walk past the hot tub like you're gonna go into the woods, and then you sit on the swing. I'm like, they're not going on a walk. They're not doing anything rehab for

her leg. Who made these decisions? Terrible script, hated it, hated it all the way, and I feel so bad for Pete Wentz. Poor Pete is my that's my suggestion for this episode's title, because you know his record label and his manager and like his whole team. We're like, yes, you're the heart throb in the band, you're the cute one, and we're gonna put you on this hit teen drama and you're gonna go kiss one of the lead girls on the show, and it's gonna be great exposure and

this is gonna be great. The fans will love it. They're going to love it. That sweet man showed up and they gave him dialogue that an experienced actor would have difficulty making natural because it was so like clunky. I had trouble with it, certainly. And then they just expect us to start sucking each other's faces. And if you looked that scene on the Swing, we don't touch each other. My hands are in my lap, his hands are in his lap. We're just like, how do we

It was like sixth graders kissing. It was well, and you said it, you know, I want to caveat this by saying like we're all friends and we love Pete, and so we're laughing at how absurd and embarrassing this episode is. But also when we were watching it, Hillary, you were like, dude, they wrote him his language is like grooming, Like this is how grown up creepy men talked to actual teenage girls, like who did this to him? And who did this to us? And who made all

of us? Who? Again to remind everybody at home, like we're all around the same age. But like the dynamic on screen, it was so inappropriate. It like my Mike, I have like the creepy Crawley's on the insides of my skin. Oh god. The fact that no one caught it, No one know. One person in the entire chain of command from the studio down was like, hey, guys, do we have any notes on this? Is? This is really inappropriate? Like you you guys, layd In Ben You being like, well,

how's it gonna work because I'm in high school? And He's like, we'll figure it out. What I mean, we all, I mean, I kissed older boys when I was in high school, but it was a different time. We didn't know any about it, didn't you didn't Yeah, well you were at that cool old girls school. I mean, I don't condone it. Um. And I think there was a lot of blurred lines on our show because we had a boss that was trying to kiss some of us. So why shouldn't some of us be kissing a guy

in their twenties? You know what I mean? Well, and I do think and I know we talked about this the first time Pete came on the show, and the whole like Pete wentz, the character and Peyton flirtation began, Like it didn't register as weird I think to us then, because we are actual peers, like we're all the same age, but when you watch it back and you go, oh man, they were having him act his real age and having us act sixteen, Like I hate it. I hate it.

He could do better, frankly, like a grown up woman. You know, Um, I had a twenty eight year old boyfriend when I was eighteen. Of course you did, joy, of course you did. Were also you were eighteen at least. Yeah, I was eighteen. You didn't have a twenty eight year old boyfriend like driving up to pick you up from high school. Now, my dad would have put an end to that swiftly. Yeah. I went on one day with a guy whose age I did not know, and we it.

He took me to like a bar for dinner, and I was like, this is a strange choice for dinner. We're just gonna eat dinner right because I'm not drinking. And then we went to like a playground afterwards, and he legitimately was like, do you know hold I am? And I was like, layground on a bed, layground, you guys, Sterling Park was a wild spot to grow up. And

he's like, do you know how old I am? And I was like, I don't know, like in your twenties, he was like, I'm twenty eight, and I remember thinking, oh god, oh no, I'm so sorry for you. I felt so bad for like there was a kidding thing like he did. You felt bad because you thought he didn't know that you were in high school. No, he

knew that I was in high school. I felt bad, like, oh my god, like, well, girls your age not date you, like I don't really know you that well, so it's hard for me to figure out the why they're but um, I'm so sorry. Oh no, and um yeah, so for girls in high school, if there are any listening to our show, don't they don't. Don't. Don't do that, don't do that. It puts me in like the part of me that responds like the dad from Clueless. That's like I got a forty five in a shovel and no

one would miss it. Like I'm just like I will this. We're we're gonna, we're gonna cause dangerous trouble. Here's me as a mom now too, when I start thinking about Maria dating and oh my god, well that joint getting to that age, I know, I would you has Maria seen the show? Has she ever seen Montrehal said, yeah, like does she know that your character got married in high school. Yeah, she doesn't. She's seen it, like walking in the room when we're doing our thing, but she doesn't.

I'm not gonna let her watch Montreal Hill. She's too young for that in my opinion. In our house, that's that's the rule. But um, yeah, when I was eighteen, I I mean eighteen seventeen, what's the difference. But the difference is that there is an actual age limit, and

that's important. But emotionally you're still kind of in the same place when you're an eighteen year old business and he had no business dating me, and it was like really clear that he was just trying to you know, I will say, it's like I think about it a lot, you know, because we've talked about your brain isn't done developing until you're twenty six. You're not allowed to order a drink in a bar till you're twenty one. I'm like, how come grown ups are allowed to date eighteen year olds?

I don't like it? Yeah, I like it well, but I r L. We really like Pete Wentz And honestly, for for what a ship show this script was, it was really fun to go to the woods and be out at that house together and and shoot like like the scene where we all are playing never have I ever and it and the whole like brooking yourself thing comes out. I was watching us, and I was just like tickled by it because we're genuinely laughing and all directing,

like we were having fun in the scenes. That tracked definitely, and they were. We were shooting nights too, we were late nights, so that was fun being in a cabin like on a new location up late, just hanging out with each other. It kind of felt like we were at camp together because we were away at a different place that we had never been to before and having Lee and Antoine and Bevan with us, like it was

just so fun. We didn't have our normal like getaway spots because we were all kind of in there together. So you know, there was a green there was a green room, but it was like our chairs were all different in different places. We all just kind of ended up hanging out around the same area while other people

were doing their scenes instead of disappearing into our trailers. Um. I remember having I don't know what the conversation was, but I remember that location was was one of the only time James and I had like a really kind of long, meaningful conversation, um, because most of the time we were just working and he wouldn't like, you know, well yeah, so again, I don't remember what it was.

I just remember sitting in that living room, like just hanging out while somebody else is doing a scene, and we had a really nice long chat and I was like, uh, just you know, always any time you talk to James, it just reaffirms how much you love him, right well, yeah, because he's so calm. And that's how Nathan is in this episode. He's like removed from the rest of the group. The rest of us are being super fun extra, you know, and there's like hijinks everywhere, you know, and he's pulling

his own hijinks. Nathan is becoming more and more like real life James, like more reserved, more mature, a little quieter, less bravado. Once he ditched Tim, you know where was Tim in this episode? That honestly would have been fun.

We needed him get fighted would have been really fun. Yeah, I mean this was you know, this was around when Brett started working and they started getting the higher ups got mad at him, and it's it's sad to think that, Like, you know, in our early twenties, we had grown ups like being retaliatory with us because we were curious about the world and wanted to work on other sets. Oh the horror, it's so dumb with embarrassing honestly for that.

Do you imagine any of us doing that today to a child like twentysomething, Yeah, and being like, how dare you you want to go do another movie? Like I'm gonna punish you. It's so, oh my god, it's so embarrassed, really really weird. It's interesting to check ourselves now that we are the age that we are, because we are in the same position like producing things and putting things out there into the world, and we have employees that are in their early twenties, and the idea of of

that kind of ownership is super strange. UM. And you see it in this episode, you know, like like Danielle's character is vilified um as a means to separate her from everyone else. And I feel like Danielle was oftentimes like separated from everyone else, you know, cut her from the herd so you can get her attention yourself. UM, Because what was happening during this whole sun Kissed campaign is that we were having to go to sun Kissed parties and they would send our boss and they would

send some of us. And I went to one with Lee and Danil right during this time, because that's when this storyline was like blowing up with them. And it was a weekend of hell in Miami with like our box crying in my hotel room and Danille like barricading or even a room, and like craziness. Um, and so then we would have to come to set and act you know normal. Um. Yeah, it was just it was there were so many things going on behind the scenes

at this time. I think that's what I remember more like I didn't remember shooting that club scene in this episode, but I remember all like the bat ship stuff going on. Yeah, the sense memory I have. Yeah, I mean this was a rough year for all of us, Like season three was pretty brutal, but like favorite subject matter why for me? Yeah, which is so interesting, But it it is wild to look back at it now and just think I cannot

imagine being a grown up. I'm behaving like that and you know, not to like toot our own horn, but you guys am so proud of us like we made it. We're pretty freaking well adjusted. Okay, okay, so we were speaking of grown ups. Joy Um knows Paul better than anyone on the planet, and Paul directed this episode and we had a nice little laugh and a nice little laugh because there are certain spots in this episode where we can remember Paul's direction, because what's Paul's like, big note?

What's this big note? Always commit commit com material, commit to the material. So he's not wrong, No, it's sometimes he gets stuck and can't. It's like there's an intersection between his sort of older brotherly need to make someone see something like like learn you have to learn your lesson right now. I'm going to force you to learn it because nobody else will tell you the truth. And

sometimes it's like, okay, I love you. But also everyone goes on their own journey, like you can only say what you say and then move on, Like you can't force people to learn things the way you want them to learn them anyway, tell your story. No, but I this is what I would say. I would say. This was a script where I felt like we were all saying, hey, can we have this line? Change? Hey, can we like change this it doesn't make any sense for Peyton to

wand from the porch to the swing. Like, yeah, Paul was to your point teaching us a lesson where it's like, take the awful thing and make it work. That's your job. Hit your mark and make it work. And so we

made a lot of things work in this episode. And for me, it was when Pete Wentz was feeding me pasta sauce and Peter has this really sarcastic like because it was scripted that I was supposed to say mm, And I was like, what, why can't I just be like, oh, it's good man, you know, can't I just say like a normal thing that a person would say. Paul's like, Hillary, I want them okay, well you're gonna get up. I

love the weird miss of that's family man. That is it is the hoops they made that guy jump through. And the fact that Pete is like Nigella Lawson in this episode, like in every scene he's like making an omelet, he's making Aposta is cooking, like what but he committed and it was very sweet. That's you know, that is true? Hillary, though that this sense of the sense of family, I mean,

that's just what everybody's got their own weird quirks. Everybody has their certain way of doing things when you and you know, we didn't have the advantage of space like we normally do, where if if somebody and your family is annoying you, you just go, you know, you go

home and then you just see them later. In this instance, we were all family, and it was like Christmas with your family, where everybody's on top of each other for four days and you can't go anywhere, and there's no space where you're free, and you're all just pulling your hair out because everybody's little eccentricities are coming up to the surface and we're all just a little on edge.

And there's no place to have a private conversation either, because, like if you wanted to have a conversation with Paul about the script, you'd have to have it in front of everyone else, right, which never goes very well. That's not fun. I don't want to do that. Did you What did you guys commit to? Would you commit to in the episode? Uh? I don't know. A storyline about teenage masturbation. Girl, I had to commit I was on your side for that, Yeah, I mean I who you

made it work. It's real. Yeah. The I remember getting I do remember getting this script and reading like Brooke having this whole solo like oh oh, reading Lucas's letter in the hot tub, and I was like, oh, just kill me, like just make it stop. I don't want to do this. But it actually, like looking back on it, I'm I'm so amused by the storyline and I find

it so funny. And I was saying this when we were watching, like that scene with Danil and I, you know, when Rachel walks in on Brooke and then they have this thing in the hall and it's like you didn't see what you think he's off and you know, we're going back and forth. It was so funny, and I wish I wish that what was happening behind the scenes hadn't been because I feel like they made Brooke and Rachel enemies, like you were saying to to kind of

segment her. Danielle and I are so funny together, Like I love get our scenes together, and I just I want doesn't that happen later? Don't you guys become like comrades a little bit later? Yeah, well, eventually we move in together, but it always is weird, Like I don't know, I just I wish we'd really just been able to play and like go in the direction that it really worked. She should have just gone back in the room with you, you know, like, girl, it's there. You know. There was

something about it though that I like about. Yeah, it's a love hate. It's not just a pure constant hatred. It's like CC babcock and nanny Fine, it's like you know, you know, it's like they they it's fun. It does make us all look like assholes, though, because if everyone hates Rachel, why are we at her house? Like that's such a dick. Yeah, yeah, it's it's really kind of

a dick move. Um. But you honestly, like the term brooking yourself is still around, um, and I'm not against it because I am very pro sexuality, but I think that young women should be you know, they should respect their bodies and not just share them with everyone. That's

my feminism is like earn it. Your mothers can't earn this. Um. You know, I have a lot of have a lot of high ideals about who you're going to sleep with, if you're going to sleep with anyone, but um, brooking your self is a great alternative to explore your own sexuality and stay safe. So that's my p s, a

safety from obsessed with the soapbox moment right now. I just I remember the girlfriends of mine, like like sleeping with people in high school that were just mortifying, just like mortifying, and I'd be like, you sick you why don't you just masturbate? Like it's just it seems like such an easier answer. Yeah, it would have. It would have been nice to see that storyline examined a little bit more without because because everybody else was paired off. So to see a young woman who was like, yeah,

no I'm not I'm not interested. I don't I don't need one of you guys. I'm good I date me. Yeah, it could have been interesting. Yeah, I agree with you, Joy, because who was alone Rachel, but she's like kind of paired off with mouth. Yeah, Peyton's usually the cheese stands alone. Um. I just I loved the comedy for Bevin when when the whole thing happens, you know, the reveal happens during never Have I Ever, and she's like, oh, I broke

myself all the time. I was like, this is funny, Like I missed that maybe my computer glitched or something. It was very very funny normalized it because what was supposed to be embarrassing for Brook became like, yeah, everybody does that, don't be embarrassed a stupid I loved Bevan and Antoine in this episode, by the way. It was so fun to see them. I love their interactions. I wish um that and maybe it happens in the future.

I would love to see a little bit more meaningful conversations and meaningful like communication between the two of them. But it's so fun. It's so so unexpected how kind of perfect they are for each other. They're so great. And also credit to Lee the writer for giving Bevan

this hilarious niche arena of expertise. She knows the Latin name of every tree in the world, like for that was so so funny, for the way that they wrote her character to be the very sort of archetypal did tea cheerleader to then be like, you know, a low key Steve Irwin. I was loving everybody. I always wanted to be somebody shorty short. He always wanted to be somebody shorty joy. Can we talk about the proposal on the Dock. What did you think about this storyline, because

we had opinions while we were watching. Well, I you said that he should have given her a different ring, which I agree it was. That was weird that they built this whole storyline for Nathan around getting her ring off her finger. I mean, I guess it's realistic, like a high school boy would come up with that, all right, but but there weren't high school boys in the writer's room, and it would have been nice for them to elevate the material a little bit, you know, come up with something,

give boys something to a aspired to a little more creative. Um. Yeah, I don't like the whole you called it out like stressing a woman out only to come in and save the day. It's it's weird. It's a weird habit um. But I love that they did this with Nathan and Haley, that they got to have their own real proposal moment and that they're going to have their own wedding that in front of people. I think that's really sweet. I loved that too, and I thought it was really nice.

You know, we've been in such sadness and to have an episode where we got to laugh and where there was some happiness, you know, for all of its clunkiness. I really liked that they gave Nathan the reflection on what Keith's loss meant, because obviously with Karen it's really raw. Lucas is trying to figure out what this means for him and his mom. But there was something very um

I don't know. I thought it was very smart, almost amost the way when you've got a great narrator in a story, they can offer perspective, Like they really gave Nathan the opportunity to offer us perspective and for him to say, you know, Karen and Keith didn't get to stand up in front of everyone, and Haley and I didn't, and I want us to the what what's unsaid is we're still here, so we'd better, you know, Let's let's

be in community while we can. And I really thought that that was such a special lesson to take away from grieving, and I think James did a beautiful job with it. Yeah, I agree. When does the wedding come? Is it like a couple episodes or do we take our time with this one because I feel like it's season four? Is it? No? You guys, it's the finale because you go off a bridge, don't you. Oh yeah, it's like the big finale, yea, the finale. Alright, well,

I don't go off a bridge. Nathan and Cooper. Cooper dives in Nathan's in the limo. Why is someone driving drunk? Rachel was driving? Rachel's driving, isn't she? And that that led Zeppelin song plays? They paid so much money for that led Zeppelin song. Well we'll get there a long time the cabin. Okay. So if we had to take our whole cast that was in this episode and go somewhere, oh fine, like where would we go? Yeah, we would need more than five bedrooms. Friends, like so many of us,

we're grown ups now we don't share. I mean, why are we not renting a house in the south of Italy? And like, I mean, yeah, I've never been to the south of Italy. I don't know. Girls, tell me, is

that where we should go? That's where I don't know, Sophia, you know all the spots, oh man, I My my dream for my self is to take over like an old Italian villa, a whole agriturismo set up, make olive oil and just retire in Italy with my tomato plants, and like, that's so if what you're saying is we could begin traveling around scouting and it would be a reunion for Cork And I'm like, let it's for work, it's for the podcast, for guys, let's call we're recreating

season three, episode eighteen. Yeah, but like grown up fancy style. I'm into it. Okay, grown up stuff. We have to talk about Karen, we have to talk about more. In that scene, it was so beautiful. Wow, it was scary. Another thing it's like that bums me out of I mean, I love this show, guys. You guys, I love our show. I don't want it to feel like I don't. But it's because it's so good when it's good, and the potential we know what they're capable of, so when it

falls short, it's so frustrating. And I really there was so much potential to have uh group grieving time, um, big big tears, big laughter together, processing things together, um, rather than just everybody getting off all weekend and like you know, you know, it's like, how is this healing? And to bring that into Karen like that would have blended so nicely with moments back in Tree Hill and we could have seen that transition right now. Again, it

just felt so Hodgepodge. It was like, we're at the lake, somebody's in a hot tub. It's cute. They're jumping at each other's back. Somebody's uh, it's like Shenanigan's a wait, we're kissing a rock star. Karen's now doing a very Moira was doing like a serious acting piece moment. And then now we're back to the cabin, and it was just it was schizophrenic episode. This episode just didn't know what it wanted to be. You forgot the club night,

Jo forgot the dance party. I forgot the dance the girl shaking the T shirts that that poor girl, she's like here, does anyone want one of these? No? Cool? Um? I think I think it could have been so special, especially because this was clearly inspired by The Big Chill.

And if we'd gone to that that cabin and then never have I ever had turned into more of a share and you had seen, especially what this loss and the processing of it meant for Lucas and then for Lucas and Nathan his brothers, and then you had cut to Karen saying, you have two sons. You know, where were you your responsibility to your family and you could have cut back and seen the way that like this younger generation of scott Boys is doing family responsibility differently.

There could have really been grief process and you know, the humor that sometimes comes with that release done in a way, and we could have gone to like dance downtown in the next episode. You know, I do I do agree. I feel like they rushed it and they sort of scissored four episodes together and it was a missed opportunity. Well, why do talk therapy when you can just have an orgasm? You know that that fixes everything, honestly, back and that's all. But to Joy's point, that's all

it came down to. It was like, if the kids can just get off, they'll forget about all the trauma. You know, there's something so beautiful about the humor. Is the wrong word helped me when you're grieving, And it's it's laughter that turn tears, that turned to laughter that turned back to tears, and it's the back and forth. I mean, um, I was just visiting family for a death than the family and and we had a service and everybody had come from you know, all four corners

to just come and be there. And I know Hillary you've also been through You've sat shiva several times in the last couple of years. I've never done that. Um is the experience, I mean, did you do you experience that in those environments as well? When it's just and I'm sure Sophia you've done that as well to being

I'm sorry about your family. Yeah, yeah, but it's just I mean, it's so wonderful to see everyone and be together, and it's hard to just sit and be real, like you want to make everybody feel better or do something, and everybody's sort of serving these roles like where do I fit? How do I serve my role here? And to see everyone feel awkward together. Um, I'm so I'm kind of talking in circles, but I think that would

have been so nice to see. No, But to your point, I find that, Um, in those situations, I used to be the dishwasher, right, because there's always the person who's like, there's the person who's like, I'm the trash bag person.

I'm the dishwasher. I'm like the busy person. And as I've gotten older and have been to more of those events, I'm the corner talker, and so you find the person in the corner who doesn't quite know what to do, and you start telling stories that are are funny to your point, you know, and and giving people permission to laugh at those events is so important. And you have to read the room, you know, like you have to know that the person closest to the loss is okay

with that. But sitting shiva is great because you give yourself full permission to go dark and just sit and and feel all the feelings for days. And then at the very end of it, everyone who's joined in and the family that's lost someone is supposed to get up and like take a lap around the block together, and that symbolizes getting back out there into the world, and that, to me is my favorite part of it. And that's kind of what our characters are doing in this show.

Like the very last shot of us all lined up, we are out in the world together, and those groups scenes, you know, even when we have to do clunky shit, they do hold a certain magic because we all represent really different things to our audience base and to see that they can all play nicely together is a good visual, you know. Yeah, I think it's interesting. Our issue with the episode is that we weren't really given time to grieve.

And I think, as we've all experienced loss, you know what, what you're really saying, Joy, is that that time is so important and it is you know, to echo your point Hill, It is what I love about the tradition of Shibba. It's not rush m hm, and everything we do in the world feel so rushed. And to have something old and sacred about community that says, sit here for days and days together, really process, really be in this, really give yourself the space to experience whatever you will experience,

and then together begin to return. I wish we had more more practices like that. Mm hmm. Wouldn't have been cool to see all of the Tree Hill kids just like walking down Front Street together, like taking the lap together. Did we ever do that? No? I don't think so.

For as much as we shot downtown, I don't feel like there was ever like a what is it reservoir dogs scene of almost just like walking out stream About how cool that would have been if there was somebody in the group who was of the Jewish faith like in our in our group and who we were all trying to process our grief and we didn't know how to do it, and somebody brought up like, well, this is what we do in my faith, and we all sort of like embraced it and figured out some weird

way at the cabin to just like do our own version of Shiva. Like that would have been so interesting to watch and go through and then take the lap around the cabin. But we couldn't have been drinking wine and wearing sun kiss shirts. Joy. It just chup. It was a big swinging a miss with this episode. I'm saying it out loud because it's like I'm dream I'm like trying to rewrite it in my head so that when I walk away and feel so bad about this episode, I can be like, no, this is what really happened

in my mind. I create Can we storyboard that? Can somebody do that for us? I'm so into it. Yeah that's better. Um. Yeah, you know what everyone always says, like, well, what do you think your character would be doing today? I'm like the quest I want to answer are how would you ladies have rewritten your show? Yeah, we just pick an episode and rewrite it, but you have to stay in your bathing suit the whole time. Sophia that's good. Guys.

Did you see Antoine and Bevan's breath in the woods and then knowing you guys were in those hot tubs. It was awful. It was awful, so bad for you guys. It was so cold. Also, I was laughing at myself because I had to get out of the hot tub, you know, after reading the letter, and I was like, oh, man, I see exactly what I'm doing there. I'm like, oh, you guys want to get us out of the water and bikini's all wet, golf, I'm gonna turn my back

on you. I'm gonna hunch over like a little gremlin and get in a towel like I just was not. I was like, you want the like sexy you know, red bikini shot. You can't have it, can't have it, just like my little protestations. Sophia, you didn't commit. You didn't commit it. I didn't commit. She committed to something, friend. Yeah, I committed to me. And I love Brooks just wearing a sweatshirt the whole episode, She's just wearing cutie. I did too. It felt it felt really real, and I

think that that was something we decided on. I vaguely remember having a conversation with Paul about that, like why are we dressed up in the woods? And it was like, well, you know, yeah, all right, what do you want to do? Put on so great? Do it? And I love I love when actors direct because you get to make those kinds of decisions that feel so honestly you know what I will say also gets a sweet honorable mention in this episode. I loved Peyton and Mouth in the bunk

beds talking. Oh yeah, that was cute. I could still share a room with Lee. Oh yes if When Lee and I did that Christmas movie down in Louisiana, our hotel rooms were right next to each other, and it felt kind of the same same energy. It was just like, hey, boss, you're coming over. We're making mycroni and cheese. I got a bottle of line and some kid food. Come over, all right? Vanessa says, how would you feel about a prequel showing young Dan, Keith, Karen and dead. We've talked

about this before. That's a great idea and should be done. Wait, who would be cast? I don't know a lot of child actors. Um trying to say from my my Nickelodeon Disney Channel repertoire. Oh, but that would be really fun to see them in the uh I guess it would be the late seventies early eighties. No, No, because if we filmed in two thousand three and our characters were supposed to be sixteen, that puts them in their senior year sixteen years before two thousand three. Somebody's going to

have to do the math. That's like. Because No, Yeah, so eighties m hmm, okay, so you'd want to see like a few years before she gets pregnant the eighties. It'd be like Tree Hill meets Stranger Things. I was just going to say, that's the christ kid with the good hair grows up to be Dan Scott. I'm into that, okay.

I think what would be interesting too is the because as it goes the storyline, you know, Dan meets Deb in college, so you would have you would have to have a story that centered around Dan and Keith, and and it would be really interesting to see how Keith watched Dan and Karen's relationship and then what happened when Dan broke Karen's heart picked Deb brought her home for like the first you know, winter break from college or whatever.

It would be really juicy and to see like a young Tess Harper and Gerald McCraney to but guys, speaking of backstory, that was one of the things that really struck me about this episode. Where are Karen's parents? Where is anyone? We've never explained it, no one's ever said she's an orphan, No one's never and royal and who does test I can't remember what Dan and Keith's mom's name was, but she they don't show up. The grandparents can't show up to their own son's funeral. Nobody explains it.

It's just totally sideswiped. That's another thing we'd change about this episode. Yeah, because that's when everyone shows up in rallies, you know, and we could see a young Ellie too, like maybe you could be there could be some sort of like intersection there. I'm so obsessed with the backstory of of Ellie and then John Doe who played my dad, like hooking up on the concert circuit, yes, and then like Victoria's a whole like Dynasty series waiting day. Gosh right, Yeah,

we want all the backstory. Give it to us, somebody right, a check done? Exactly right? All right? Riley asks, where would you rather hang out Trick, the River Court or Karen's Cafe. Okay, wait, is this me like me now or or me in high school? Like? Is this us in high school? Or oh? I immediately went to now now I'd be I'd be in Karen's Cafe. Probably That'd be I'd be like, go right, and I'd hang out and like chill there. I'm going to have to say

trick for both guys. I'm still just bar rat. Hey, man, can I get some trouble here? Okay, that sounds good. How late are you open? Totally high school me definitely wants to go to trick, but also I want to go to Trick and hang out with you guys in the green room and be like, no, this is ours, like this is our little space. We'll go watch the music, but then we have our little room back here, because you know, because it makes me feel very territory, but

in a sweet way, if that makes sense. No, it's good territorial. This is my hang out. It was cool. Its cool clubhouse. Man. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe do we need to open our own trick at some point? Yes? Okay, we do planting that seed. Let's do that perfect you guys let's spin a wheel. I'm so glad that we're back to happiness. Let's see what the wheel says for us. This is my favorite in a long time. Oh, you guys, who is most likely to secretly be a vampire? Secretly

be a van? I mean we've Dan, Yeah, we've been spinning wheels for a long time. Here, Um, we've never gotten that one before. My goodness. Dan easily transitions over to, uh, what was that show with all the vampires on it? What was that show True Blood, True Bottle, the show that was at the same time as us with the vampires diaries, Big vampires, little bit um? Yeah, well, who doesn't age joy? You do freaking age? You have an aged Are you immortal? She she nuts, tell anyone, I'm

just drinking the blood of virgins over here. Yeah. I think Dan Scott would for sure drink any blood he needed to to stay alive. I also like the first thing I've pictured when it was like who's most likely to be a vampire? It's like all the creepy old medieval ship you used to have in your house, Hilary. I'm like if you, I'm like, you probably have a coffin. That's a coffee table, Like, I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in storage that lives so well, guys, it's not

a secret. The whole thing would secretly be a vampire. You're proud, Um, Oh my god. Remember we were so obsessed with True Blood while we were filming our show, like you, Okay, I just emptied out boxes of books that I've had in storage for a hundred years. I mean, I still found things that I've been storing since high school. I pulled you know, I was sending you all those

photos from set because I was finding a stuff. I have every book in the series of True bless you're so obsessed, obsessed with that the opening theme to that show. I was just like, this is the sexiest thing I've ever seen on television. Oh my god. Scars Guard is terrifying and so handsome. Um, what a world? What a world? And we were so excited when Joe Mango went over to play with them. I know, yeah, man, he made a great werewolf. Um, all right, what do we have

next next episode? I think you should read it, guys. It's embarrassing. No you read its moment. It's season three episode nineteen titled I love with someone in Fallout Boy, and all I got was the stupid song written about me and for the record, the record. So many people have alluded to the fact that, like they thought that Peyton and Pete slept together in this episode, and I, for one, even when filming it, never thought that because Peyton is fully clothed the whole time, like in the

zip up sweatshirt the whole time. Remember I asked when when you guys were having to talk about the tattoos, I'm like, why doesn't he have his shirt on? Like it's weird because it's so clearly not happening because somebody walked over to him at the last second probably and was like, we want to do this scene without your shirt. Is that okay? He was like sure, sure, well, or somebody said you can't have your shirt on if you're counting your tattoos. Well, neither neither Hillary Burton or Peyton

Sawyer has had sex with anyone in Fallout Boys. So boom, done, done when we're squashed queen until next week, Everyone go get your squash It's October. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O. T H. Or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We are all about that high school drama. Girl, Drama Girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl cheering for the right Drama Queens draw up girl fashion, but your tough girl, you can sit with us. Girl Drama Queens, Drama Queens, Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queens