Going Rogue • EP314

we did it. We survived last week's traumatic death. We are back in the full like crowded Tree Hill Sports Oriented, you know, big huge epic scene kind of episodes, and we cried happy tears. Yeah we did. Everybody just needed to. Yeah we did. I totally did. Brooke doing that robot just made me so don't know people will get there with the oh my gosh, Okay. So here guys. It's season three, episode fourteen. All Tomorrow's parties, Brooke, Peyton, and Haley head to New York, all the three of us

in car again together. It was so sweet and fun. So they go there for Rogue Vogue and then off to Charlotte for the Classic, but Brook stays behind and makes an important decision about her future. Lucas and Nathan reconnect with the family friend and skills learns how to swim from Bevan, and Karen asks Keith the big question. David Paymer directed this one, and Lotto wrote this, Wow,

this was really fun. I like this one. I like the balance of last week's episode of really intimate conversations and this week's episode of us all being together, the basketball team, the cheerleading squad, all the parents. And there was no Dan in this episode. Yeah, it was so nice. We didn't have to be worried about some creeper lurking around every corner. Yeah, what a relief, because like, like Karen and Keith could finally enjoy themselves, except not really.

Why is a cute foil for He's fun coming in their room and being like, oh look to Ruffles and eating their chocolate, and you're just like, oh man, these two can't go on a date. It's not like, oh man, someone's trying to kill one of them. It's a different, different vibe. I love I love Brooks storyline in this episode. You know, meet Brooke got a full nineties rom com episode, you were I was just waiting for Matthew McConaughey or Cameron Diaz to show up somewhere. I think we would

if Matthew mccon very pleasing um. Instead, it was just our friend Sam playing a total greeb oh. Sam Robinson is a local actor in Wilmington's and he's He's who played that totally weird guy in the Turtleneck, which is it's unfortunate because he really is like such a cool guy and a buddy of ours from the improv comedy scene. But he played a real crazy I don't know if I ever met him in real life, so that Sam

was great. Sam hung out of level five. Babe. Sam did this thing though, because clearly he was playing such a creepy that he changed his voice. Can you believe Brooke Davis gave up all of this like the horrible thing, which I actually really appreciated because he was like, Oh, if I'm gonna be gross, I'm really going to go for it, and it made me feel better that he

didn't sound like himself. I loved it. We had so many good theater actors in Wilmington's, so it was fun when they would show up in our series because we get to get excited about them. Wait a second, didn't Sam also play the guy that gave Brooke Davis the drugs in season one. Yes, in season one's he is yes. Oh my gosh. It's like it's like all those old shows like Lucy The Dick Van Dyke Show, where they were just recycle actors. They would come back for different

parts every season. You guys, this is a full cycle storyline. Because in season one, when the sports trainer gives Brook Davis the hills, she takes them and it's very messy that night. But season three, Brooke Davis is like, no, hugs, not drugs. I don't want those things. And they're both offered by the same guy whoa I guarante. Do you know one else thought us deeply about that. The casting directors like, I don't know, just can see him. Yeah, this is it though. This is what happens when you

make something. You go look at that, you see the connections. You're just more invested. Hillary, You're such a fun drunk and uh and hungovers the real life or are we talking about both, babe, because the last time I was hungover it was with one Sophia Bush. Yeah, you guys get me in trouble man. We're fun. I have to say It made me feel so nostalgic because there are three iconic images of our show that all come from

this episode. Yeah, us hugging at the edge of the stage at Rogue Vogue, Hillary, you in those freaking aviators looking so cool and and you know, there's the gift that's like you can't see my eyes but under my sunglasses, or like you can't see it but under my sunglasses. I'm rolling my eyes at you, and then the three of us like doing the robot and the can can at the end. I just was cude. Some of our best moments all come from this episode, and I loved it.

That's what made me cry is watching the last scene where we're all just dancing and being you know, a reverence seventeen and impulsive and like all those things that you don't get to be as an adult. Um and you set the table really really nicely for the lead up to that. This episode, like Brooks story is great so that Haley and Peyton we get to just be teenagers. You're like Earn with your boyfriend, you know, like, let's

take a bath together. Haley's being all flirty and young and Peyton's being messy and young and Brooke has to decide am I going to be young? You know, like, do I even get to pick what kind of young I want to be? Or do I have to go be a grown up? Now? Um, I love that you spotted that the differences in all of our and the thread between all of our storylines, and it just goes to show that they there is so much thought that's put into those things. It's not just righte dialogue put

people in situations. It's how do we tie all these things together? You know, And especially because we're all dealing with pretty grown up stuff. Haley and Nathan are putting their marriage back together. Peyton just lost Ellie, you know, to go through a major loss, and and to your point, Brooks trying to figure out is she ready for what's next? And it's beautiful to see these kids be kids. You know, you don't have to be a grown up, you don't

have to leave your childhood behind. And it is interesting now that I'm thinking about what you just said, to consider the fact that it's Brooke Davis who's like, I just want to hang onto my innocence for a little while longer, especially considering what she had just been saying about being scared to leave high school. Um. You know, I have to say there was a part of me that was really rooting for her to take the go forward with the fashion show and just take that big

risk and you know, move forward in life. But um, this time, the decision didn't feel like it was coming out of fear of leaving high school and fear of leaving it all behind. It was like, after the conversation with Doubt in the in the taxi, that she really understood and appreciation for what she has and she just wanted to hold onto it a little bit longer, not out of fear of what if I can't make it, because she would have done, and she would have amazing

things would have happened, great doors would have opened for her. Um. So, knowing that those possibilities are out there, I think maybe it gave Brook a little more confidence to be able to make the decision to stay in high school. I don't know, what do you think? Yeah? I think so, And I think that you know, Ann as a writer did such a beautiful job. It's funny to realize Ann Latta wrote this episode and Stacy Rukeyser was our story editor.

There is a different energy with those ladies balancing these big questions that these young women are asking themselves. And what I loved was, you know, dud and by the way, I mean give us that you guys, Brian George showing up and me just being like Seinfeld was so cool. Oh, I know, for the kids and who are like twelve years old who don't know Seinfeld lay it out for them, because it was a geek out moment to have him come. Yeah.

I mean it's like to you know, to get someone from one of your favorite comedies of all time who like shows up on your set. And by the way, who's such a brilliant comedic actor. Brian George is actually a very you know, witty British comedian and he came in and and he played this beautiful story and I remember, you know, obviously it's not the same kind of relationship you had with Cheryl, but in the way that when

she showed up you felt very held. You had like parental energy that was safe for you, which like we just didn't have in Wilmington's Um. Brian made me feel that way. I remember just like babbling out, you know, compliments, and he was like, okay, al right, well you know now I'm on your show. And I was like, oh

my god. He was so sweet and disarming, and we spent this whole night, you know, hanging out on Front Street shooting it like it was New York and driving around in this cab and and in between takes, we we're having conversations like Brooke and I would were about life and creativity and acting and you know, living in New York and just all these things that were so

enjoyable for me. And I think I was I was so hungry for as a young actor, and so I loved that the sort of sparkle we felt together came through, and that his sweetness so clearly came through. And I like that these women gave you a gentle misdirect where he said, you know your life, you know, time passes by so fast. Make your life great now, start right now.

And you think she's going to, you know, put it all in on her career, and she realizes what is great to her is her friends home, and it's so special. I think that's why it made me cry. Well. I can, I can, I can feel the it was real, you know those times when we do scenes and they're real, like like you were actually having a magical experience with a total stranger, but you were in a scene where

you were having a magical experience. Yeah, you know, I think I think we've been lucky that we've been able to be totally aware of those moments, like when Cheryl Crowe came to that Enjoy got to be with Cheryl Crowe and it was like, oh my god, we're doing this thing and like what are you doing? You know, like those magical moments are rare, but you know, here we are, how many years later and you can still feel it. It's still that tinkly thing and we weren't

even in that scene when we get it. By the way, I love that you just brought up Cheryl Crowe. A friend of mine was at her show last night and tagged me in the Instagram story and was like where all the one tree Hill stands at and oh my god, and I got that same feeling. We're here totally, totally, so great. And I love that brook at the end because historically are just leaking because because you know what you got brought on to be the comedy, the hot girl.

That man took you seriously, and I don't know that you felt that from a lot of adults in our space. And so for that man who you already knew and respected to come on and treat you like a professional and to take a moment with you and respect you and to have like an earnest scene, I can see why that would be touching, especially as a young artist.

You know, we got bullied by a lot of the grown ups that were around us, and it's very confusing to figure out what sort of respect you deserve and to look at an adult who you really respect and have that person, to your point, treat you so well, be completely non creepy, be so supportive, and you know, to have an actor who I grew up watching say you're a phenomenal actor to me was like, WHOA, really

you think I like my job a lot? It's really cool because wow, like it's it's it can be very Those experiences can be very transformative, especially when you're not in a day to day space that feels totally healthy to you. You know, I wanted to ask Joy if she connected with this storyline because of the three of us, it is Joy's real life that is most like Brooks narrative.

Because you went to New York as like a teenager to go work, and and had to choose between like, you know, high school crap and also I'm gonna go live on my own and like I'm gonna work. I'm a teenager. I'm gonna go work. You know, did you

see yourself in that at all? I recognized that that room, you know, the party room where they're you know, the girls drugged out and somebody's hitting on you and your way too young, and you know, everybody's sort of like acting like this is the norm, and aren't you lucky to be here with us? I've been there, um and I always left. I always felt uncomfortable, and like I just didn't. It was it was the same reaction brookehead, like get your hands off of me, stop touching me.

What are you doing you know doing? Yeah? And I credit my parents, you know they I guess it was just they always gave me a good sense of um self and grounded nous, so that when I was in scenarios where there was a lot of peer pressure, I just didn't. It didn't phaze me very much. Um. So, yeah, I mean I recognized that. But I think also I never really felt the tug of like oh am I going to choose to be a high school kid and just enjoy that life, or am I going to go

be an adult in New York. I was always just like, oh no, I'm I'm out here, Like, I'll see you guys later. You guys have fun, prom I'm out. Yeah. So I love that broke in the end because also I was gonna say this, Historically, Brooke would have been the person with when the routine went wrong and somebody screwed up. I think Brooke historically would have been the person that got really frustrated and didn't know what to do, and like was just you know, because she wanted it

to all be perfect. So I love that she just let go and she was like, I'm gonna lead by example here. I'm stepping out and I'm just gonna take a hold of what i want and embrace what I came here to do, which is not to win a competition. I came here to be a kid for as long as I can right now, So let's do it. Made me cry immediately. Yeah, I mean, look, we just turned forty, sof and I and I woke up the morning of my forty birthday with a sty in my eye. And

I was like, what the is this? And my doctor's like, oh, it's stress related, and I'm like, you think cool, story man, And so all I wanted to do for my birthday was go home to my friend's parents house and have a pool party in her yard, because the least stressful thing I could think of was having Debbie Dawson's brownies and going swimming in her backyard and sitting on a trampoline at you and because you you also had the same pig hill. You were in high school, but you

were like getting ready to get out. You were like, how do I get to New York? How do I go? I made the Brook Davis decision. I went to tell us I got an agent when I was twelve or thirteen years old, and my parents would drive me from Virginia up to New York and I would audition and I would get close on stuff, you know, or or it was just cool to be in the room for, like really auditions, like joy I feel like you and I probably went up for a lot of the same stuff.

Horse Whisperer, Girl Star Wars. Remember when they were talking to every chick on the planet trying to find Natalie

Portman's part. So yeah, we went up for all these cool things and it was neat, but I was getting in trouble with the cheerleading squad because I was missing like major practices and games and things and routines were being screwed up because I wasn't there or I was into school play, and I would get called up for an audition, and so I had to have a meeting with my agent and say, look, I'm just going to go to college in New York, but I'm going to

stop auditioning for the next three years. And so my sophomore year in high school, I was like, I'm not going to audition anymore so I can gain the life experience. I feel like I'm gonna need to play a high school or later because I knew they cast eighteen year olds high schoolers. You had to be over eighteen and hot. Damn if it didn't work out, you called it. Sometimes you gotta call your shot. But I like, um, I like that Brooke could have gone either way and it

would have been a win. I feel like a fan base would have been like yes either way. So maybe we should do that pole, we should pull the audience and see, like who thinks she should have done the fashion show and who thinks she should have come home to the Sparkle Classic. What I love about picking the Classic, though, is it at this moment in my life looking back, it makes me realize that your decision, you know, in real life Brooks decision on screen, it's about giving yourself

permission to slow down. And things do go so fast, and it's like, how meaningful it can be to say no, I'm just I'm going to slow down. It's a cocky move. It's a cocky move because you're like, you know what, I could get it now, I could get it later. I'm in it. Yeah. Like as kids, you're like, I've got my whole future ahead of me. As adults, I'm like, I'm like the baby. The osfor Journey might not come back. But you know what's really interesting, You're right, I think

it's I think it's about trusting yourself. And I trust myself now more than I did then, certainly. And you know, I chose this summer to like chill. You know, the three of us do this, but I'm not doing anything else. People keep asking me to do and I'm like, no, no, no, I'm going to live for a hot second. I'm gonna be home. I'm just gonna be here. I'm gonna have this moment. This season is so special. I just want to have this moment. Let's talk about other work stuff

in September. And every once in a while I feel that thing where I'm like, oh God, what am I doing? And then I'm like, no, no, I chose this choice. I chose this choice. I choose my choice. I choose my choice. I choose my choice. And it's great, but it takes work to say I can slow down and it it feels wild to go. Oh man, Brooke Davis teach me this lesson and did me just long to learn it? Well, it's clear that this is a subject matter that is near and dear to us, you know,

especially when we're young women fighting for our youth. And we were really lucky that the person who wrote this episode was also a very young writer in our writer's room at that time. That must be why it feels so honest. I mean, she was just a couple of years older than us. She was like, I kn't so, ladies and gentlemen, with no further ado, we have miss Annelatto here, the writer of episode three fourteen, All Tomorrow's parties, let's get her in here. Oh my goodness, ladies, one day,

one day of sales. Can you believe this? We have literally the best fans. Y'all are incredible, you guys, we're basically sold out. I mean after one day of sales. Super exciting to start doubling up on shows. You know, we were only going to do one show in each town. Now we're doubling up on some of them, which is exciting for those of you who are going to be at the later show. Congratulations, because to us, it's only

going to get spicier as the night goes on. How many people do you think will come to the first show and the second show just to see how weird we get? Oh? Do we need like golden tickets at the venues where we're doing two shows. We should take a poll because we're going to need to know who are double up friends are? Oh yeah, yeah, Well guys, if you want to double up or just come to one of the extra shows that we are doing, please go right now. Drama Queens o t H dot com

and you can go get your tickets. So pumped to see you guys, They're going fast, so get them while you can. And yeah, we cannot wait to see you all. We decided we wanted to be together and thought, let's just plan a fun week. And now I'm like, oh, oh my god, do we need to go on a national tour? Are just gonna invite a few thousand people? Do we need to go on a European tour? Do we need to go like an Australian tour? All the things? Thank you guys for showing up. We can't wait to

see all on the road. Hi team, Oh my gosh, Hi, I'm so happy to see you guys. Where are you right now? Where in the world are you? Be very emotional for me? Okay, So I'm like, this is what I was hoping to Um, I was hoping to just show up at your house. Hillary. I'm in I'm in Massachusetts, I mean be here, so I'm like a hour away from Yeah, you should have been here. I'm literally in my garl Odd right now. We could have just like sweated it out together in here. I know it's so hot.

I'm also going to look like I'm like like really like sweating it, literally sweating it really bad. You're glowing, You're glowing. So how long have you been in Massachusetts? Mmm? So I keep saying I moved five years ago, but at this point it's been two thousand fifteen. It's like seven years. So I was in l A from nine till um two thousand fourteen. I came back when I was pregnant with my second kid, um because I was like,

everyone's like, what do you can do for kindergarten? I was like, you know what, the easiest thing for me to do kindergarten has just moved back to Honestly how I felt. I was like, I'm not going to get interviewed for school. It's a full time job. Everyone's like, you applied to ten schools and you get rejected from ten, then they'll get in. I'm like, that's your plan, That's that's what people do for school. So I'm back in my hometown, like living that dream in my you know,

two hundred thousand dollar five bedroom house. Well that's what this whole episode is about. It's about Brooke deciding to choose her hometown over that glitzy dream. And so how did you How did you land in l A? Like what was the trajectory for you to start writing I had always wanted to. I think I really came out to l A because I love Felicity and Buffy, like

I thought I thought they were like like art. Like I was like, and I didn't even know you could be a TV writer, Like back then you couldn't major and you know, you couldn't major in it in school, like I didn't get any you know, like there was nothing to do in college. I just majored in English.

I knew I wanted about l A. Um. I had a second because like my dad's cousin lived in Venice, and I like slept on his couch and got this to land kind of Venice was never been I was like sos, you know, like the more to the east side I got was like more Sensilver like then Echo Park then you know, so I was like, oh, this is my world, right, So I await from that and by the time so by the time I landed on one dree Hill, that was definitely like a huge break. And I had actually gone back to for just a

couple of weeks waitressing, which was like the end. I was like, I was like, I've got it do this because I haven't And I used to like write in my mind, my own heat. He true Hollywoo would be like she had started. She was at the Evendel group working as a hostess because they were so competitive. They were like we before you. One night a week hostes sing and I was like, oh my god, this is um. So I've been to Toronto. That's what I went to born and that's the Canadian citizenship. So I was there

for a minute before I came out. Did that landed on there? It was a great, great atmosphere in the very beginning with that. So he was the assistant. We wrote a spec together when we were both assistants. Me and my Carol wrote wrote the thing together. We were like best buds. We've been researchers on the weakest link together. That was our job that we met at. Then I was promoted to writer's assistant, which is when I went in the room. So the first year I wasn't really

in the room. It was like this, we didn't get to I didn't get to see what actually happened. We sat out and answered phones and we got to do a little. I wrote punk and disorderly, so I wrote I wrote like I just wrote like every day. She had a little journal entry and it was what Peyton was thinking. So I would like put a quote from a song, but who it was from, and then say this song makes me think of you know, summer, like one line. Thrilled to do that. I was so happy.

So you were the original Twitter, Yes it was. It was yes on that on that. By the way, that website used to be up for like a really long time. Someone, I guarantee you there's a cool fan that screen grabbed the hell out of it. Yeah. Um, I was there for three years. I was as an assistant, then I was the writer's assistant. Then weirdly, so all the boys got promoted and I was in the same level as them, and I did not. I got made a writer's us in for the second year, while everybody else got promoted

to writer. Now I don't know if you know, like the financial jump for that is from seven hundred a week two at the time, and this is before script and for for everything to a week. Wow. So all the other people who got promoted were men. So the two other boys, it was John Norris and Mike Harrow and me were all assistants eaten. They got bumped up, um, and I got left in that spot, and they actually went to the show runner and they were like, can we give some of our salary to Oh my god.

They were so like that was so cool because it is such a different and that and the money is to me what comes back to how why every everything they were making so much money? And I was so outspoken, um, and I was so I spoken about the use of the word bitch and slut and horror and skink NonStop,

like my passion, and I like hated it. There was one one of my I remember there's one scene where you were playing a guitar, Haley, and someone shouts from the Autistan take it off, and I was just like, I just I was like, there's something about that, like when you're up performing and someone reduces you to like just yelled like that and and and they would like but I always spoke off about that stuff and the like you're taking it to say, you know, blah blah

blah blah blah, because I feel like I like really did actually like I'm really proud of stuff I did police then because it was always my stomach drops when I hear like slutt and bitch and horror. So for them too, when they would use it, and especially there was so much like female female against like negative stuff

and the and the narrative that girls throw themselves at boards. Reality, it's like it's the other way around, you know what I mean for the most part um, but it's like sexualized, like going after like that was the character of Rachel and then some of it came from the networ too. It was like we had female following and their agenda was how do we get boys to watch? How do we get boys to watch? Instead of supporting all these

die hard fans that are looking for identity. And then they would be like, oh, I know, let's have Rachel hold a basketball in front of her boobs and saying game on. And it was like, first of all, like boys can find corn, Like do you think they're gonna trune into one Tree Hill so they can watch that? Like can we just give story? Like and it would break my heart because a lot of the girls were really young to um you know, like thirteen and you

know is still really young. You know. We get like kids that are like, Hi, I'm named Brooke, I'm named Hayley, And you're like, maybe don't watch this yet, don't watch you know, even my daughter's eleven, and you know, she's in the room sometimes when I'm podcasting or whatever, and I'm a little like, we don't turn around, don't watch them. Our daughters were born like the same time. I think mine was. My daughter's born in January two thou eleven.

So what was your experience like writing this episode? So this episode? Okay, So first of all, I thought that I was not going to get one because he kept putting it off. And part of what made the dynamic word was I got um. I sold a pilot to t Nick at the time, and I'll be the first to admit I was a little like big for my bridge. Like I was kind of like because the people in my ear were like, this show, You've got your own show. But of course that showed like it got Greenland and

then it never happened. Yeah, yeah, but we don't know that when we're in our twenties. Were just like, I'm you know, I'm so I was a little bit getting and I was also pissed because I was like, I'm here till eleven o'clock at night breaking like I was doing like a lot of the stories. So I will tell you all the stuff that was then I won't do this on things that look so better. But I came up with Brooking because they were like, they were like, let's do I go. You know, it's something that has

not been approached ever. I'm like, let's go to female masturbation. Can we do that that we don't even need to hook up with boys? Yeah, I was like, let's let's take it outside. That was Brookie. I did all the letters. Was that was my story lain whatever. So anyway, I was supposed to write the episode before where Peyton's bomb dies, and I was blotted in for that, and then the show runner came to me and said, I'm going to give this to Stacy because her father had just died.

And I was like okay, and he goes, I'm gonna give you the next one. It's gonna be really fun. It looked horrible on paper. I'm not gonna lie. It was like this like what like? And also, I don't know if you've noticed this one, how much like product placement was crammed it? Oh my god, yeah, so much spray and let me play my song? And like the car what was the car that you had to mention? The cruiser we're in our pt cruiser and I was like,

why are we in this car in Rachel's fridge? Yeah? Yeah? Oh, and can I give you my debit master card too, so that you can make it have me feed while you withdraw that from any any at M around the corner. And then also there was that weird spin off storyline with skills is are not? Was it the family when they go to battle? Yeah? Yeah, Nathan to maybe be a NASCAR spinoff, So that whole thing was crammed in there. Another Nascar thing. It was gonna be, Yeah, it was

gonna be with his family. There was possibly a storyline there, So that made no sense and had to be because they tried to make Nascar happen this season before and the day was still clearing around at the studio. So it was if we combine remember these guys, and then we do these guys and this is the driver and this guy will be the night security, and it'll be all these people that you've met over the course of

these seasons of this show. And it's not a bad idea to do that, I mean, like, I can see how that would be useful, but it just fell out of place with her just like, cool, let me just clunk this in here real quick, let me clunk this in here so you can sell a show. Yeah, you don't have much time to do it, and stuff like that. So, um, so there was that. But then I feel like, but I have a question because obviously, look, there's the politics

of you being a young woman in a room. So you've gotten behind the first door, but they're still holding you at arm's length. They're dangling the carrot of well, if you just do this well, and if you do this well, and if you make less money than everybody else in the room, but you don't complain about it, maybe we'll give you the episode that we promised you last season, but you'll get one this season. It's a bunch of bullshit, and it's something that I think is

familiar to so many of us, so many arenas. That car that carrot is infuriating, and as we all know, it happens to women in ways that it doesn't often happen to other people in in corporate structures. Um, I can go and add nauseum about how if we actually had pay equity in America, there the GDP of the entire nation would increase by twelve points like that it

would be great. Um, I just love a number. But in the middle of all this like patriarchal political bullshit that you're dealing with as the youngest female employee in the room, you got this script, which I get in an outline you said looked kind of like trash or like how am I going to make this work? But you did. You wound up writing a show we talked about.

By the end, when the three of us are dancing and all the pressures off and these kids are just being kids, we were all crying watching you took us on such a great journey and it was magic. So how did you do it? Magical? And yeah, so magical And here's one of so that last scene like as the whole, that's when you know, and she's like reflecting and being like I want to be a kid and just the way, um you know. And one thing that Montreal does so good is those Kodas, those montages and

the music. And I was so I was a big music person, so I made like it was funny. I remember one of the writers was like everyone has to have their think. Yours is music, mine is sports. This guy's pelt like everyone has to have their own and and like I you know, and I genuinely do like music, and I always envisioned that scene with a very um slow with a slow song, with a sad song. The song that I wanted to use was, um, I don't know if you guys, it's it's red right ankle by

the decembris. Oh. That would have been a very different scene, would have been a very different thing. And it's like, but what I loved about it is it has this random line. Well, it has like such great lines, but like the last verse is like, this is the story of the men who loved you, who loved you now, loved you then, And it was like, so I wanted that I just give myself a little too. But then another line that made no sense, but it was like, this is the story of your gypsy uncle who you

never knew because he was dead. And it was like this foreshadowing around Keith and wanted to like when they proposed to each other, I wanted that line to be there, and so I had this big vision and he's like

I was there with you. I understand, but like I want him, you know, we need to keep it up and keep energy and I was like, Okay, you know, um, and and I think it still works, but I like wish I was like, I wish I could just even like edited that once just to see how that played out, because it was so like, well, well, I'm sure we have a fan that can set it to that song for us, so so why don't you post that on

Instagram for us? That would be cool. Played it for myself and the thing, but like, and we had a really good time in the room, and the dynamic is weird.

So it's like, um, the writers all get together and it's all on the board or whatever, and the show runner would kind of come in after and be like, show me what you got, and we'd be like, so we have this, and we have this, and we did have There was one version that was earlier that we were really excited about that got slightly tweaked as well, But what stayed was that just like being able to hold onto the moment of your youth while it's happening,

which is very hard because it's very easy you look and so easy to be so nostalgic, but when it's happening, it just you know what I mean, It goes by and you don't and you aren't able to grasp it. Um. You know how the subways in New York City have those like poems up sometimes Yeah that's like, yeah, to

calm you down on the subway so you don't stab anybody. Yeah, yeah those And I remember seeing one that was like, not a particularly good poem, but it had some line that was like, um, we won't tell the writer of that poem, whoever, whoever it was, if they listened to this and they'll recognize it. And it was like, um, when we die, I think heaven is going to be like our memories, not the way they happen, but the

way we remember them. And it was just this very good nuance of like, it's not like that when it's happening, but sometimes it is every now, and the actual thing that's happening you realize while it's happening, and that's such a gift. And I felt like that's what I wanted to capture, and I hope that I did. I think that's why it felt so special. Yeah, I'm like a nostalgic person, but that bit when you're drunk, oh yeah, my drunk song. Yeah, so the stars are crying for Yeah,

I got to write that. I had to register that yeah, because it had to be an original line and original two and I had just say it to David Paymer or not David Paymer, whoever the director was, David David Paper directed this one. Yeah, Yeah, And so like that was really fun that I got to do that. It was really fun. In the beginning. The quote about being jealous of the angels, yeah, is a poem that a

friend of mine wrote that. I was like, Sylvie, that poem you wrote about and the name of that poem was the endless perfection of your absence friend who died. So I got to incorporate so much that I've been holding in for so long. I also made everybody after all my friends. So Bevin Mursky is my good friend, Michelle Mursky. So when she was horrible, reason, I was like Michelle Bevin Mursky because she got named in that episode. That's right. We never knew her last name before name.

I did know that happened in that episode. That's so great. We have watched a lot of episodes at this point, and this one does rate very, very high because it feels most like a teenage girl's perspective um, right on the cusp of having to make these grown up decisions and like you said, like taking advantage of a moment while it's happening, not after. And so you being such a young person in the writer's room, one would think they would come to you and ask, like, hey, what's

it like to be a sixteen year old girl? Because you know, not everyone in that room knew what that was like. Were you a sounding board for some of their ideas? Oh? Yeah, I mean I was remotely the closest they had to a sixteen year old girl. I also had two younger sisters the time, so I I still do. So I was kind of um, but they would know. I think that they relied on that a lot. And that's why I think I got like a chip on my shoulder, why I got like, you know, annoyed.

It was it was so weird to look out and see that room and I'm not it was four it's fourteen older men. It was very very odd. Um, by the way, here's a detail that is crazy that in the room and I think, I don't think we didn't make this up. But in the room when um, when everybody would take a we would break the story so you break the scenes, you break the acts, break the scenes, and then um, we would go off and people would

get their own scenes. So you'd get a scene of like what was going to happen, right, so say like from the outline, Yeah, from the outline, and then and then you have to go right to fill it in. You get to write the dialogue, You get to write fun stuff that you want to happen in it. And when we would break that up, which by the way, is illegal from the w J You're not supposed to

do this, but we would break it up. But we would call it gang banging the outline, Oh god, which is still uncomfortable when you got are we gonna gang bang this? We're gonna gang bang the outline? Oh god? Little things, little things, you know what I mean. And you don't know because you're so early in your career. You haven't worked necessarily in healthy places yet, so you just kind of assume, like, oh, it's like those everywhere, right.

I remember the whole thing that came out like with the friends, Um, it was the friend's assistant when she like was a whistleblower. She was like, listen, this is so like, this is what it's like in the room, and it does get really brutal in the room, and and you had to be the kind of girl that could roll with that and would never get offended by that and that, and again like I don't care what

you say, Like let's go there, let's go everywhere. But like there's when we're making references to rape, then it gets weird, right, So like that doesn't make a prude, and like whatever, I don't care what we say, because like you are very open in that thing, you know, like acting and writing. It's it's different than my sister is a school teacher when she came to the room, but she's like, I can't believe the way you're allowed to speak. Just yea and there listen. There is an

expectation of more detail for any subject, more intimacy. You are creating intimate lives as actors and writers. But to Hillary's point, when you've worked in more places, you know what healthy intimacy looks like versus unhealthy intimacy, And the kind of things you're referring to are deeply unhealthy because you've got to be able to be messy to be an artist and to create things. There has to be a space where you can say stupid things or do

you know, do some or offend someone or whatever. There has to be space for that because you're creating something and that there is a rawness and a vulnerability, but there's a way to do it that is healthy and consider it and where there's forgiveness and there's space to say, oh I need to learn something here. Sorry, I totally stepped out of line. Didn't realize that. Apologies, I forgive you.

Let's move on. But when you're in an environment where everyone's just it's like autheritarian, everyone's just expected to kiss the ring. When you're in a room where there's sixteen people and only two women and the men are throwing around terms like that, it's absolutely unhealthy. And it Yeah, period happened on my very first day. I came in one of the all the assistants were male, and there's a p a, there was a there was a writer, um the first year who wasn't there, and um the

Paris Hillton sex tape had just come out. God, and they were all watching it at work and work, and I had just met all these people and they were like, yeah, I want to and it was like so it was like this test of like and that a writer came out and he goes, what's going on? Yeah, and they were like and he's like, not cool, guys, not cool. Now that writer turns out is actually gay, but nobody knew.

But I think that's interesting that it was like one game mail that was like, guys, that cool, this is like And is that the writer that left after after that season? After he was only um, he was only the first season. I believe I came in that I come in at the end of the first season, at the beginning of the second season. Yeah, that would make me want to run for the hills too, just like this is so And then just think about how far we've come that, like, how like aware everyone is of

how unbelievably inappropriate that would have been. But I wonder if it still happens with young I mean we were of course it does, of course it does. I mean when you talk about, you know what happened with the writer on Friends, you know how they make us through the sexual harassment seminar every year at every studio, you know, for our friends at home, you have to do this

seminar about what's appropriate communication. This has always existed and pre the Me two story breaking In every single year that I was working at NBC, we would do the sexual harassment seminar and they would say, and let us give you an example of what happens when a legal

issue is risen. And they would give the example of the Friends writer talking about how the jokes about the sexually inappropriate jokes, the commentary about rape, and the and the racist commentary in the writer writer's room of that show made her feel very uncomfortable and a lot of it felt pointed at her. And then they would tell us about how she lost, how the network's lawyers beat her in court. So the exits it was no one's allowed to speak to you in ways that make you uncomfortable,

but if they do, will win. That was the messaging. And so when we talk about all of this and people say I think dumb, like, well, why didn't you just leave something? Yeah, first of all, as you said, so well, Anna, it never starts there. It starts everyone's cool. Everyone's nice. People take you under their wing, they tell you they're going to mentor you. They probably give you

like a cool gift, like a nickname. And by the way, you were welcomed into a room where something very uncomfortable and inappropriate was happening, but someone in power stood up and said absolutely not. So you go, whoa, that was weird, But every they acknowledged it was weird and okay, we're going to move on from that. It's it's also incremental, and everything happens in all these shades of gray. It's

rarely ever black and white. It's easy to have the black and white examples after the fact, but I think you know, when we ask what happens these days, this is why we talk about a diversity of a requirement really for a diversity of the people in power, because when there is more diversity in power positions, whether it's a corporate environment, a movie studio, creative industry, there's less harassment,

less on happiness, more pay equity. Like the data tells us it's possible to change it, and it happens organically. You put it year old exactly show Yeah, you wouldn't have felt like it was you against the whole machine. You know. The reality is if we want to build rooms that look more like the world, some of us have to go first. And like you got a group of women on this zoom who were all kind of

first in that environment, and it sucked for all. But it's also unspoken thing about that too, is that you know, and this is what the friends thing she and she brought. You know that there's not just a hundred, there's a thousand people lined up to do your job. You are so privileged to be there, and you see the resumes coming off the thing. And even though you're the lowest person in the total pole, even though you're making point of the person who's doing the same thing, you know

that people are lined up to happen. You're so lucky. You're like, you're replaceable. Is the drumbeat that I kept hearing. You're replaceable, replaceable, You're replaceable to Anna, do you want to spin a wheel with us and do most likely to? Yes? Yeah, I think we ought to. Let's see we got this week? So do you know this thing that we do on the show most likely too? I don't think I've seen Have I seen that? Oh? Yes? So we like, like

you know, school superlatives, yearbook things. We pick a most likely to topic and then we have to pick a cast member and a character who fit the bill. So this week we have most likely to become a meme. Oh my god, we were like pre memes to girl. There's so many like gifts and memes from this episode. So if you talked about it the top, there's like there's that famous shot of the three of us hugging at the end of the stage and then Hillary and her sunglasses and then the three of us doing the

like high kicks at the end. I mean, honestly, is that is this the episode instead of a character? Is it episode three four and the month you become a meme? I think you did it. I think you wrote it. Queen meme. Here we have queen meme. And yeah, do you have a favorite one tree Hill gift or meme that you've seen floating around? Um, I'm trying to think. I don't know. I'll have to go look and take a deep dive. That'll be fun. Yeah, Anna, thank you so so much. We'll talk more. And yeah, I'm glad

that we're gonna begin this healing journey together. Me too. Of you guys. You wrote a kick ass episode. Thank you so much. And yeah, just the beginning. Can't wait to them. Yeah, next time I love to read. They'll be fun. Okay, right, please do some next week. We have episode fift from season three. Just watch the fireworks. I feel like that was heron's drows sweet. Well, there are dudes alright for games and chat. One are the teams? All right? Allays, all right, we'll see so all right, Hey,

thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H. Or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We are all about that high school drama. Girl Drama Girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride at our comic Girl cheering for the right Drama Queens draw up girl fashion, but your tough girl,

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