This episode deals with the topics of depression and suicide. If you are someone you know is suffering, please call the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing nine to eight eight.
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Today, we're discussing season seven, episode eleven, You Know I Love You, Don't You? Air date was November thirtieth, two thousand and nine. Snapsis Goes. Nathan and Haley's careers bring about a tough decision for the family, and Julian divulge is a secret to Alex that Big Time violates Brooks trust appropriately so by the way. Meanwhile, Clay tries to resuscitate his career as an age Jamie learns the truth about skills, new job, and a fresh from jail, Millie
finds an unlikely supporter in Victoria. This one was directed by our friend Greg Braine and written by William Brown.
Oh no what so?
Oh my god. Well, first of all, I was about to be like I love that you added big time.
I was like, hah, that's so appropriate.
And I just realized I wasn't with you guys last week and.
I watched ten and not a leon.
Oh how funny. That's okay.
I was like, Jamie find out first from jail. I was like, no, she just got arrested.
Okay, you can be one of the viewers at home who did not watch the episode before they listened to the podcast, and we can talk through.
I love it. I can't wait.
Yeah, we did this with Joy and it was a blast.
I do remember a lot of this episode, and now Joy your text from this morning makes a lot more sense.
Yes, yeah, well gosh, I have to say, I think we have arrived at the worst episode of one treal maybe at least at least my least favorite. And I'm sorry to say it. And listen, folks, you know us. We are going to find the silver lining. We're going to talk about things that we loved. But I hated this episode. Sorry.
Okay, let me ask you Before you go any further with that, do you hate it because it wasn't a good episode of television or do you hate it because of the content both? Okay, say more so.
Aside from the fact that we hit a really heavy level of misogyny and harmful stereotypes in this episode, it was I'm sorry to the people that I love, I think it was a badly written, badly directed episode of television. The actors were totally hung out to dry in this episode. We had and who knows, Look, everybody has a I've had plenty of episodes where I was phoning it in, and I think the director phoned it in. I think
the writer phoned it in. Who knows what else was going on in their own lives and their personal lives, And I think that's bound to happen when you're shooting. How many episodes did we do? Two hundred something at.
Twenty four, twenty two or twenty four, but like.
Over ten years, I mean, we just so many episodes of Yeah, everybody's gonna have a bad day. It all just seemed to be the perfect storm on this one. There was a lot of dead air, awkward moments. Every scene felt like there was no blocking, no thought put into it. The actors were just standing there talking heads.
The scenery was boring, there was no activity. It was like, let's have Jamie and Skills looking at the computer and everyone just gather around and stand there and stare at them while they have this awkward emotional conversation and everything just felt really placed. I don't know, I do know. I'm not going to say I don't know. I'm trying to stop that habit. I have that bad habit of doing that. But anyway, I was not happy.
And You're like, why am I saying I don't know
the answer when I'm actually smart, and I did. Okay, I have a question because as you started to say that, especially about how many episodes we shoot a year, and as you were talking, I was doing the math of Okay, if we're eleven episodes in, it's before the holiday break, so you're hitting that point everyone comes back to work like fresh faced, like bunny tailed or whatever how whatever that phrase is, like in July, and by November you're so underslept and so tired, and yeah, I mean your
body just starts to get to a point where it hurts all day, and I like you said, Rob, I can get the I can get the timing of it on The Humans, and it also can really be a bummer to see exhaustion and action on camera as a viewer, I would like to ask a question as the person who clearly forgot what episode we were on this week
and watched last week's, which is great for me. I wrote a question down about seven to ten, and I was like, Okay, I'm not trying to be such a misogynist, but the extreme move for Alex to say I love you to Julian in a text message and then break her sobriety over this boy that she doesn't really know that well, and I get what it's like. She's finally being recognized, She's finally being seen as a whole person
and not an object. We all obviously were begging for that on our show with our own boss, you know.
But I had this sort of breathtaking moment where Alex finds her or where Millie finds Alex at the bar, and I think, oh, maybe she knew Milly was coming and she's ordering the shots for her, and then she takes not one, not two, but three, And I wrote down, I said, am I being too cranky or or were we just indicating all the time that women should throw their lives away for men and we never said it in reverse on our show.
And then I was like, maybe I'm I.
Don't know, maybe I'm in like an emotional moment, But is there more of the same in this episode, like just more terrible writing off of women?
Yeah? Yeah, this I found. I had a big issue with, like the alex of it all throughout this whole episode. It's funny. I had a bit of an emotional roller coaster. I generally my third note is I stand brilliant. You know, it opens with this with sweet Disposition playing in the background. You guys have this sweet scene in the kitchen, and I realized, like I really am rooting for these two. This is awesome. And then Julian just captain Ignora red Flag.
He divulges to Alex. So, first of all, I didn't even think about this until so he divulges to Alex Brooks infertility secret, Yes, which is like just such a capital T trauma like violation of trust.
That's horrible, especially think about the fact that this was in two thousand and nine.
Yes, like people.
Talk about this stuff today in twenty twenty four, and it's still so personal.
And imagine it wasn't even a secret that he'd been holding on to for like months or something. It was like the next day, yeah.
Yes, And then I realized after the fact, I thought, this dummy needs to go to therapy and learn about boundaries because the fact that he didn't set a boundary after she text I love you like for again, seriously ignore a red flag. She corners you in a hotel room and takes off all of her clothing. You tell her no, his girlfriend is her boss. Then she sends a text, I love you. Mind you. Every business interaction there's also flirting one way flirting happening, yes, but at
a certain point you are party to it. If you're not shutting it down, you are participating. So the fact that like he didn't check it, he didn't set a boundary about the clothing thing that he stood by. At least she texts I love you and he's just like, oh whatever. He's alone with her at the house and shares this information. Yeah, and like doesn't even call Brooke to give her heads up. It still would have been terrible, but at least Brooke would have been prepared for it.
Yes, to say I did a really bad thing. I got shot up, and I'm so sad for us, and I blurted it out and I'm so sorry.
So that's the thing, the blurting it out. And this is why one of the reasons, one of the many reasons in this episode, I say the actors were hung out to dry. We were all doing the best we could with the material and clearly with the direction and the staging that was handed to us. But if that scene had happened early, all the scenes were early in the morning, all the opening scenes, Julian could have been early on the on the balcony, like tired, didn't get
any sleep. He's nursing a cup of coffee. Alex bustin. He's like, well, I please leave me alone. Stop coming around here, and she could just push enough buttons that he could have blurted it out in a way that was like, here's why I don't need you around. I'm dealing with this. I'm dealing with this. My girlfriend can't get pregnant. Now I've got to deal with that, you know. And then now Alex has the information that need her to have to continue on with the rest of the episode.
But they did Julian no favors. They did the audience no favors in watching and appreciating who these characters are and loving them. And as an actor, you're like, well, this is what's on the page, Like what else am I supposed to do?
Exactly because you have to do it, you have to shoot the scenes. Yeah, and you know, let's be honest, there have been so many times when we've all gone to bat for our characters and it's a really tricky thing because you can't complain all the time because then you get yelled at. And in an episode like this one, because there are it's weird. This is one of those ones where there's so many things I remember like it was yesterday. So many of us were like, what is
this script? Yes that that I know we were met with a God, you guys are just all being so difficult.
Yeah, And it's want to.
Sit there and say we're not We're not.
Actually, we're just saying none of these things feel thought through. It's like we got a first draft and we're supposed to be on a dissertation and one of these is not like the other.
I agree, Yeah, And so it's like I said, I it really took the wind out of my brilliant sales and just made me more of a just like a Brook fan because it just unfortunately a I see some of myself and that behavior because I came very late to the boundaries game and learning how to protect my
relationships and to prioritize them, prioritize them. Excuse me. Yeah, but like after the first time, Brooke already says she's uncomfortable with this dynamic, and she has and Alex has been so out of pocket that right there is the moment where you need to sort of reassess the situation and start like protect the castle, like your relationship is
the priority. So if anything overcompensate and instead he's kind of like there's a difference between being like a ho hum, nice guy people pleaser and when that goes too far and is actually harming your relationship.
Yes, and okay, so I love that you're saying this, particularly because you're giving this insight as a man, Rob
bless you. One of the things that I will admit, like you're saying, you see some of your past in this this season, and I mean certain storylines we've done in general, but some of the stuff in this season is so triggering for me as the adult woman that I am now, because what I see Brook Davis doing is tolerating terrible behavior that I've tolerated and not actually valuing myself to set a boundary soon enough, and making excuses for behavior and keeping it in because you know,
there's that old adage of like, don't talk too much shit about your partner to your friends, because once you get over the issue, your friends will be mad at them forever. And that has made me stay in things that have been so toxic and so damaging, and then you know, you let people in and everybody goes, oh, we've been waiting for this, Thank God, Like we were worried, but we didn't know if we could talk to you
about it because you weren't talking about it. And this whole storyline with Brooke really does that to me in a way that makes me want to sob And it's so hard to see her keep trying to work it out, because I'm sitting as if you were being like, but what are you working out? Yeah, Like, don't you just think you deserve better?
And who's in Brooke's life? Why don't we get the example of somebody saying, hey, what are you doing? This is not okay?
Yes, and you have this procuse me. Brooke has this line in the episode because to your point, yes, there is so much of this episode is the women seeking the men and and and that was sort of the dynamic. It's oddly, it's like it's with Brooke and Julian, it's
with Alex and Julian, it's with Clay and Quinn. But there's a moment where you are it's a very sweet moment between Brooke and Victoria where Victoria is like really showing up as like a good mother figure, and you're upset and she's like it's fine, Like no, who is not the end of the sentence. We're gonna figure it out, you know, it's gonna happen. And and she says, and if he's not okay with that, then maybe he's not
the one for you. And then you're crying. I think you say something effective, But what if I'm the one for him? I'm sort of like going to with that you said, it's like.
Yes, who wrote this?
How about how about Kim in that moment, like how about you just be pissed and let yourself be angry because he really really put his foot in it, you know, as opposed to but what if I'm the one for him? It's like, hey man, you got some self worth in there?
Yes, and truly there's a part of me that like, in this moment in my life is like, wait a second, did I get like brainwashed into tolerating terrible behavior.
By RTV show for ten years?
Like?
Do I owe the next ten years?
Do I owe all those therapy bills back to our writers?
Like? What?
Oh my god? I will say. The one thing that worked to help balance out that totally uneven dynamic is the fact that Rachel is straight up horrible to Dan when he is nothing but sweet and hopeful to her. That's genuinely you know, she's pushing him to do the show and he doesn't want to do it, and she's
completely ignoring his feelings. By the way, best slap of the season, hands down, is from Jimmy's mom slaps absolute daylights out of point and because I know Paul, I know he said hit me in real life, but you see it. She genuinely slaps the shine off him. But in the wake of all that, they're in the limo and he's like, I don't want to do this. Oh. He actually hands her a check and he goes, I'm done. Here's your money, and she's like no, she's all business.
And he says we can grow old together and she says you're already old. And then he says we have enough and she says it'll never be enough. So at least there is one relationship in which they have flipped the dynamic and the man is the one seeking coming hat in hand for affection and attention and just getting bagels, getting.
Bagels, getting bagels.
So good to please name the episode getting bagels, because that's what we got with this episode, and they were not good Brooklyn bagels. You know, it's it's throughout the episode, like not just that, because even in that scenario, Rachel's still a villain, which is fine in and of itself, but in the context of every single woman having some sort of misogynistic label put on her, even when Millie's leaving jail and the shot of the prostitute being carted
into the jail, why are there so many prostitutes? Also, it's like the Johns never get arrested. We just always put the women. I mean, that's a whole other let's talk about that for years. But it was Mouth when he was upset with Milly. He's sitting on the couch at the end of the episode and he's playing some kind of video game where he's just running around with AK forty seven killing other dudes in the video game. First of all, we've never seen that behavior from Mouth
at all. But secondly, the just sort of the casualness of like, oh, this is what guys do when they feel mad at their women and they just need to relieve stress. We go and it was so irresponsible. And there's a comment that Brook makes about being adopted. She says, if you can't get pregnant, will adopt, and she goes, it's not the same. And I'm like, oh my god, every adopted child out there hearing that line. Yeah, it
was so irresponsible. I'm very upset about this episode. Sorry, I don't mean to get worked up.
Get worked up.
No, it's okay.
I also found and I've been sort of flagging this for a couple episodes now, but I really feel like I don't understand how things have gone so fast for Claying Quinn, specifically on the Quinn side, because God, yeah, I'm sure you saw it inten so.
By the way she walks in in ten and is like, hey baby, and I was like, wait what, I had a whole rant on this last week.
Yes, it was like did we miss four months they've been dating, Like we're already.
De pet names.
So this episode, though, one of the very first opening scenes is like Clay has been fired and he's at his beach house and I don't even know what happens, but she just says, I'm so proud of you and listen.
On one level, I can understand that if you see someone going through adversity and they're handling it well, but like, because of all the other things that have happened, it just it feels like two people who just really badly want to be in a relationship and they start dating and they're like, wait, you want to be heavily involved. I want to be heavily involved, and they just like
move in. Within a week, they're saying I love you, and within a week and everyone else like, you know, you can let this breathe and just happen, right, you know, this one, it's kind of the same thing, like Clay is showing her like very little affection. He kisses her on the cheek once, and then there's some stuff that
happens like mid episode. But then at the end of it, it's like Clay he's kind of giving up, and Quinn shows up to his ex assistant's office, clearly to hatch some plan to help Clay, which it's interesting, I'm curious, but it's just that thing of like you and oh, that's what it's. Midway to the episode, she says to him because he's like, I think I'm just gonna leave the Tree Hill, and she starts to confess, and she says enough for the audience to know that the reason
I stayed was for you. So it's again that thing like well, also her sister lives here, Like it's just that thing of like Clay's whole excuse me, Quinn's whole life has become Clay. Like Clay's like, Hey, it's great you're here. I appreciate it. I got to hit the stuff.
Clay's got, the boundary's going, he knows.
What's by the way, Joy, even to your point about all the ways that Julian and Alex conversation could have gone, like obviously we didn't see it in the earlier years of our show, because you guys weren't with us. But in the story, Quinn is Haley's sister, so she could have told a whole story about how great it is to be back where she grew up and walking on the same beaches that she used to blah blah blah.
Like.
She could have had a whole thing and then let something slip and we could have gone, oh, she's given a spiel, but she's here for him, and it would have tracked and it actually could have been the good kind of exposition that would have told us a little bit about Quinn's childhood. She could have even told a story we didn't know about her and Haley. There's ways to do it if you're not being lazy, and they were so lazy.
No subtlety in this episode, none whatsoever.
And I just I think it does a disservice to the growth of a relationship and the payoff when you come in so heavy handed. It's just it doesn't have the same thing then the one that actually happens, you know what I mean. And again it felt like they were just going, we lost a couple, but don't worry, here's a new couple.
Here's another one. But they lose their credibility as characters that you're falling in love with, just individually, as people, they start to lose their credibility. Quinn just suddenly getting out of a marriage that she's not even totally out of yet, and she's diving right back in with Clay. That's a character defect. It's okay to have character defects, but pick the right ones when you're trying to make an audience fall in love with new people.
Can you imagine how incredible it would have been if one of if we had a character on the show that was a therapist that everyone went to see a lot of the Sopranos, the rain broco right. Could you imagine the incredible therapy sessions the audience would have got to sit back and listen to.
Oh I would love That's what we needed.
It would have been incredibly interesting. But no, it's more fun to watch people not in therapy. I thought Mouth was very sweet. I thought that the Millie stuff. I'm just waiting for it to end. Yeah, Lisa's great. I love watching Lisa. I'm just so tired of this story that clearly is not about the character of Milly at all. It has nothing to do with Millie. Millie is not present. It's just this trope and I just want it to end so I can see Lisa be Milly again, you know.
Yeah, well, and the thing is they're so good together even the forgive me for continuing to reference it, since you guys obviously did the episode while I was gone, But I loved that scene when Milly and mckinna come out of the bathroom and Mouth confronts her and asks her if she's using drugs in ten.
And the whole fight and the way.
That that nosebleed just starts and he's just watching and she's ranting. It's like they were both so raw and it was clearly so painful, and she's just letting all this insecurity pour out of her. And they're so fun to watch as actors. But I have to choose, and I realize it might not be as easy for folks in the audience who don't do the job we do.
I have to choose as an actor to like, leave my friend at the door, this character that I love as a viewer and go, I'm just going to watch least actor face off in these scenes I have no idea who this character is, but god, I'm loving it.
And it's a weird thing when you have to do that, especially when you have actors that are so talented that they could have they could have done the storyline across a season and it could have really developed Clay and Quinn really, you know, beginning to have this addictive problem, like it could have been given the breath it needed and it just wasn't. And when when you jump too fast into it, it feels like a shock.
Yes, and an addiction can be an incredibly compelling story, just not when you do this sped up rod strokes after School's version, after school special version, It's just like, oh, we've seen this on Saved by the Bell and a bajillion other shows, you know.
I think, thank god Lisa is such a good actor, because at least in those moments, I can watch it and I feel for exactly what you're saying. So I don't know who this character is, but I am feeling for this woman that I'm watching on screen, and I appreciate empathizing with her journey for a moment. But yeah, I agree, like, when's it over?
Please?
I remember when I went to see Green Lantern in the movie theater. I don't even know if I was. I think i'd maybe just started acting. But I remember even then watching it, and I'm thinking about halfway through and I'm a comic book nerd. I'm so excited, and even then halfway through, ever going, I'm watching two very good actors do their best with a terrible script. And that's kind of how I feel lately with Lisa and with Jana. Alex to me is just like she's the
worst in this episode. I don't know, like I just I can't stand her. But yet, like you said, though, so I can watch it and go. But Jana's crushing like she she's bringing emotional weight to some really crappy dialogue, Like there's no there's no subtlety to it. It is Peak and Valley, and it's hysterical and manic, and it culminates, and it culminates with a scene in which she calls Julian, confesses her love, thanks him, then proceeds to hang up yeah and try to unlive herself in a bathtub. So
awful and enjoy. I have a question for you, because I did I head this moment, and maybe it's like getting too close in nitpicking, But why is she in her bron underwear? Why did she if she's she's about to end her life, we see clothes right next to the bathtub. If you're really trying to end your life, why are you taking off your T shirt and jeans?
I totally agree, and you're not nitpicking. It's this is one of the most infuriating moments of the episode to me, was creating suicide porn basically out of this moment, Like they wanted a beautiful shot of a beautiful girl with a beautiful body in beautiful underwear and blood draining from her wrists, and it was an overhead shot and it was supposed to be glamorous, And yes, I am so angry about this.
Can I add to that anger because I'm still angry about this, And it's almost been twenty years. Using a suicide attempt as a cliffhanger on television, to use this as drama as musty TV, as tune in next week to find out what happens. It makes me sick to my stomach.
Yeah, I don't even know what to do, Like a I'm hot, Like I'm angry. When I saw that shot, I was like, wh what are we doing? What is the purpose of this? The reason she had to be in her underwear was because they wanted the overhead shot, yeah, or Network TV. They couldn't do it without her underwear on, so they put her in this really beautiful, vintagey looking
set of underwear. And it could have been like it literally could have been her arm like dropping into frame by the bathroom floor and you see a little bit of blood and you cut away and you know what's going on. They could have done that if they I mean, there's plenty of other things they could have done too. But I'm not saying we shouldn't be telling these stories on TV. I just it's the fact that they used it to try and make it sexy somehow. That is it's unconscionable to me.
Yeah, And that it's always women that are put in the position to do it, and that when you bring it up, they tell you, well, this is the way it has to be. There's no reason she couldn't have been wrapped in a hotel towel, dude, Yes, in the bathtub. Yeah, a white towel in the bathtub.
There's no reason jeans in a T shirt to the tub, meaning she chose to take off her pants and her T shirt, which we're not going to be in the way of her business. She chose to take those off before the call. Like what it's It's just it's so dumb,
and it's such a disservice to it. Like I remember one time on a different show, I was I was supposed to be like about to die, and I was supposed to be saying goodbye to my best friends, and and they wanted me shirtless, sitting up right in the bed shirtless, and I went, I went, I went to bat on it, and I said, you're completely undermining everything that's happening in this scene. It's gonna become a beauty pageant. If this is about me and a shirtless in bed,
you gotta figure it out. I don't care. But put me in a T shirt, put me under the sheets. But we're not doing the shirtless, you know. And because it's sort of the same thing where like, yeah, you completely take the focus off what's important. It becomes, like you said, it sort of glamorizes it or sexualize it.
It's just yeah, because then how many of these girls at home who are in a position of desperation in their life, and they it's like, well, at least I could go glamorously. Look at look at that. Look how beautiful that looks. It's so artistic. Yeah, I mean that's Marilyn took pills and laid in her bed and it was like silk sheets, and like, if I'm going to go, at least I'll go glamorously. Like it's not it's not glamorous.
And the willingness to put that message out there for young women, for anyone.
It's so irresponsible. Yeah, no, I can see exactly what you're doing. It's so irresponsible.
Yeah, it's I don't know. Yeah, listen, it's a teenage soap opera, you know, like I know, we want the best from it. But it was also at a time period it was just like, you know, I'm not making an excuse for I'm just saying I think this is why it was okay for them. You know, it's because it's like, this isn't educational programming, This is candy. This is for consumption. Yeah, not that it can't be that and disappointing, you know, you can still want better for it.
Yeah, so much disappointment.
I think part of the reason it can be that and be disappointing is because we've seen that it can be that and be really important or impactful, and so it's really hard when it goes in the other direction of possibility. To go from potential to let down is very it's hard, and I think it's also hard from
you know, this time period that we're in. We've had so many conversations and in so many ways, this generation has you know, blown the lid off of so much inequity and mistreatment, and like what really happens when terrible systems take advantage of fifty one percent of the population and it's not really changed that much, Like the conversation happens, everyone says, we've got to do something about it, and
then it's a lot of more of the same. And I think it can be really hard for all the winds to see all this like backsliding, you know, all it's like what are we what are we doing? There's so much there's so much harm done to people that it's really hard to feel like you have a platform where you could have done something good and you did more harm, Like isn't there enough of that in the world That I think is tough, and I get what you're saying, Candy soab Obra, Yes.
But h yeah, it's kind of I think one of the reasons why I have such an issue with the Mildaise party Girl storyline, like when when you portray addicts and alcoholics, like in the same stereotypical way, you do such a disservice to so many people who are struggling because that becomes the perception of it, and it's like that is not the majority of people's stories, you know what I mean. So it's sort of not only is it tired and boring and uncreative, it's also harmful a little bit, you know.
Yes, yes, One thing I think in the emotional realm of this topic that they did a nice job with was hiring Rene Vincent to play Jimmy Edward's mom to come in and you know, you talked about the slap and that was a really powerful moment for Dan and I appreciated that they really went for it as actors too. But I did really love and I have a little list of wins for the episode because I didn't want to be a big Debbie downer, but I did love that this woman came in this actress who I'd never
seen before. I don't know if she's local. I don't know if she's New York. I don't know where she came from. But she walked in as Jimmy's mom. What we saw her actually in the episode the season when he passed away and they brought her back. Sorry, I'm a bit jumbled because my adrenaline was really high on that to bring myself down, but I appreciate that she was.
She was so honest and raw and getting in Dan's face and being willing to tell him yeah, exactly, showing that mirror to him, this is who you are, this is what you've done. I will not forgive you. I will not allow you to walk through this and think that it doesn't matter and that what you've done is you can continue to capitalize on it. It was such an amazing moment. I really loved that.
Yes, as to come in as a guest star and have to take up that much space and sort of command of a scene with the series regular is not an easy thing to do, but a I think Paul's a great scene partner for that, because he is the type of scene partner to tell you to take up space to let him have it, you know, but she delivered. She was she was fantastic. I also have some wins too,
I mean some lighter stuff. I thought, Yeah, I loved that Jamie is just over in the middle of the day at skills in Mouth's place, just hanging out even though he's whatever he is eight, I don't know. I just love that he was like one of the guys. He just happened to be sitting on the couch and I thought, oh, this is it was like cheers, Like Jamie was just there to hang out to check in. I thought that was so sweet. Yeah, their dynamics great. I loved.
Yeah, that's always a winning Yeah.
I love. I loved that Nathan's agents flew in from wherever, whatever big city they're based out of. He's like, Haley, the team is flying and they got me an offer. And I'm sitting there going like, oh, okay, cause I don't I know how this story ends, but I don't remember the whole ride. And they show up to basically be like, hey guy, great news, we got you at duhit offer in Europe, Like you guys couldn't have scheduled a conference call for this, really disappointing news.
Yeah, so when was the last time any of you had a business meeting in your house where someone stood up and presented to you. Like there wasn't a PowerPoint or anything. They were just formally standing in the living room. This is what I'm talking about. It was lazy.
There's the randomly assisted that. Yeah, so that I thought that was stupid and hilarious. It was funny. Yeah, it was great that the episode needed some stupidity.
But I liked Look. I liked Clay speaking of the agents. I liked Clay going out to the country. I liked the breath of fresh air that I got watching the countryside go buy in his car, watching him have alone time and process through all this stuff, watching him communicate with this player that he was that he was trying to recruit, And I don't know why he gave up so easily, but maybe you can enlighten us.
You know. That was another one where the script is the script. Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, you're limited to what the words on the page are.
But I did love Wait can you refresh sof because do you or I don't know if you remember the scene.
When Quinn is like, what are you going to do? So I'm Clay's dressed in a suit and he's obviously getting ready for something, and he basically says, you know, the agency didn't get all of my clients. And she's like, who did they not get? And he's like, I had this kid football prospect who's going to be the best
quarterback in the NFL in four years. I remember this, Yeah, And I drive out to the kid's house and I have this really like it's a cute, funny pep talk, like Clay like ams himself up in the car the kid. By the way, that actor was great, perfect casting for like the all American country boy who is going to be a quarterback. But he finds out the agency had already called and said, hey, that guy's fired, and Clay it's it's Clay does give up a bit easy. I
wanted to see Clay fight more. I think they're just waiting for the build when Clay like rises like a phoenix from the ashes.
Like, where was this Jerry Maguire moment?
I was hoping it was his Jerry Maguire moment. The one thing I did appreciate, though, was that maybe in that moment, Clay didn't have the confidence in himself. I appreciate that he was honest with the kid rather than just going because the kid goes, what would you do or if you were in my spot? And so maybe he was having a moment of just like brutal honesty
and he wasn't feeling high himself. But the thing I will say to his character, it was this great moment to see his character because he said, who did they pair you with? And he says an agent's name, and Clay takes a beat and goes, Nah, you should go with so and so. It's a better fit. So it was a really cool moment of showing Clay's character and integrity that he wasn't trying to hard sell a kid
out of desperation. Steady was saying, Okay, I'm not your guy, here's who you should actually be with, best of luck.
Maybe that's why he gave up, you know, quote unquote so easily, but maybe subconsciously he was like, I I don't want to be selling this kid on me for sure, if while I'm still feeling a little insecure, I don't want to do this out of trying to make myself feel better.
Yeah, I mean less than forty eight hours ago he got fired by his good friend for dropping the ball on his career.
Yeah, it was like he recognized, I'm not going to gamble with this kid's career because I need a personal win. Like that was pretty cool. And then he goes to the largest grave ever with no date, no words other than Sarah's name, and that is strange.
I'm strange. That's not the last we're going to see that giant, oversized gravestone. But yes, it is like a Texas size tombstone. And it didn't He must have been paying by the letter and he was broke that day because it's just her name, not even dates, not even a sentence.
It.
Yeah, yeah, man, I was hoping this was, Like I said, all I remember is how this story ends. I just remember this scene where I come back to your house and I give a little speech, and I was hoping that I was going to come in this episode. What it has is that it's cool keep playing the fire. The one lighter highlight of the episode was at least getting to watch Jamie and Chuck recreate White Men Can't Jump on River Court.
It was really fun.
Quote of the episode for me was when Jamie and Chuck walk out in wardrobe and Skill says, already you know the first play right, and Jamie says to him totally just with nothing on it, just very confidently, a matter of fact, just get out of my eye line and someone call action. I like, that's great, ye.
Incredible, incredible.
Also I liked the scene with Nathan and Dan at the door when Dan shows up at Nathan and Haley's house. I don't know why he showed up there. Who knows why Dan's always showing up random places.
He just keeps showing up.
He always shows up. But I was not nice to see the two of them drop in again and have a you know, it's not a conversation we haven't heard before. But I always appreciate hearing Nathan stand up for himself with his dad because we went through so many years where he kept giving him chance after chance after chance. So that was nice to say see him say, look, it's you came back to Tree Hill, but I got nothing for you. So whatever you're going to do, you did.
You guys had a lot of you had You had a lot of good scenes of this episode. Joy. I thought your stuff with Chantel when when Haley and Quinn were in the car together and you guys pos the fight to have some real talk. I bought it. I liked it all. I thought, I really liked the conflict or potential conflict of both of your careers wanting wanting different things at the same time. You wanted to go out on tour and him potentially needing to go to Europe to stay relevant and in the mix. And I
thought that was so relatable, so real. Maybe not the careers, the careers quite as relatable, but that conflict though, of like whose dream gets precedents?
Yeah, how do you make those decisions as a family?
Yeah, And I loved that His solution was you come into the kitchen and he had planned a whole tour for you with places of interest to stop and eat and things to check out, and so yeah, it was to me. I wrote the note of like that is that is top notch husbanding. That's some that's some teammate stuff.
Great.
Yeah, that's a great partner right there. Like I'm going to miss you, but I know where you're going to be and it's going to be fun and it's going to be yeah for a short amount of time, you know, but like, I have your back and we're going to make this work. He you know, he found solutions as opposed to just living in the problem. You know.
Yeah, And I think there's something to that as well, like the because to your point, Rob, the careers are not relatable. Being a touring rock star and an NBA player are not relatable for you know, most of the world. But the reality of how does everyone get what they want? You know, each spouse and the family, because the family is its own unit, right, and so many relationships you'll see when we've done the dynamics where one person has to put their whole life on the back burner for
the other. And how long does that go on? How long does someone ignore your needs before you are living in your house with a stranger, Like, we know what it can do for someone to go unconsidered for long periods of time in their home, and it's really refreshing.
Rather than not that those stories aren't interesting, I think there are things we can all relate to, but it was it's such a refreshing thing to instead of going into, oh, this is what's kind of launched another conflict, immediately deciding to present a solution and in presenting a solution, show your partner how much you care about it.
And it was perfect because she had just shown up for him in a really big way with this last controversy that happened, So it was the perfect opportunity for him to show up for her, like it's it's a great way of being like by the way I see you like you got me, I got yeah.
Yeah.
And it wasn't It wasn't from any sort of place of martyrdom. It was an active showing up. I think the fact that he actually mapped out that whole plan and got excited about it. It wasn't just like, Okay, I'll sacrifice what I need to for you, I'm willing to. No, he was active about it. He made it fun for himself. It was a participatory experience and I loved that.
And in creating that this this plan for you guys, it allows him to be a part of it. He gets to be a participant as opposed to just like, well, my wife's off doing this thing, you know, like he's he's a part of it with you guys. And another thing I liked about that conversation was I think you say, like, nah, you got to do Spain, and he makes a point of saying, no, I think it's like a couple of years ago. I think if he cites an event or
if he just says a couple of years ago. I remember you talked king about how much you wanted to go back on tour. And I love that, Like he listened and he made a note, this is important to my wife. I'm going to files away.
Yes. And by the way, that's exactly the sort of thing they could have given to Quinn.
Well you know when I.
And it just gives you something because with our time jump, you know, to hear Nathan referring to the time essentially between the end of season four and the beginning of season five, right like those years we didn't get to see that simple sentence. I remember a couple of years ago you said it fills in the blanks for the viewers. And those things are they really? I mean, you just illustrated it perfectly. Why they go so far?
Yeah, I think we just about covered that whole episode.
I don't know what to listen say.
I think we should all just commit to not being misogynists and to no lazy writing. That's the bumper sticker. No lazy writing.
Oh, lazy writing, I really have. I'm really hoping the next episode is a good turn about and this was just a bad moment in time that everybody was going through something crazy in their life and just could not show.
Up to work except the actors. Oh my goodness.
Okay, we have a listener question. Friends. Let's we're going to get out of this episode and never return.
Never to come back.
You picked a good one to not watch, So, by the way, just skip right on to twelve for Nes.
Honestly, by the way, there was a lot, I mean, things that bugged me in ten, but there was a lot that I really liked. Am my honorable mention in seven ten, not that anyone asks, is Taffany admitting that she she had three martinis. She wasn't on drugs, but she was definitely buzzed.
Leaning on all of the uh on all of the clothing racks as she was walking.
Incredible.
Also that scene between her and Grubs.
Okay, yeah, we went in on that one because that was.
I'm looking for a lover and you've made the less incredible.
Cameraon is asking us what's an unexpected skill or knowledge that you've gained from working on the show that you didn't anticipate needing, but now you find it valuable in your everyday life. Great question.
That is a great question I have. Okay, so I have two answers. One of them is more serious and one of them is more fun. The serious one would be, uh, I discovered therapy while I was on the show, and that has been tremendously helpful for me in my life, and I still I still go to therapy. So I would say that discovering therapy that's not directly related to one Hill, but was really helpful. And I went into the show never having done it, didn't know anything about it,
and then you know, I found it. Was like, oh yeah, I could use a lot of this. The the funny thing that I took from this show, I will never forget this for as long as I live. One day, we were on set and we're doing a scene. I'm usually pretty good with my lines. I I you know, I'm off book, I'm good, but I went up on a line and so Mike le owner, a script's revisor, I go, what's what's that line like? And he gives
he gives me the line blaha la la. I go, all right, thanks, and he goes, it's a good script. You should read it. I think every single job I've done since Wantree Hill, at one time or another, when I want to bust someone's balls, I dropped that line on him. It's a good script. You should read it.
That's so funny.
It was one of the best burns of all time. And so now I have I have Barrow and I will continue to do so for the rest of my life. That's such a good yeah, and he screamed it across an active set, like because you know we're friends at this point, he's to busting my balls. But like to screen that rocks just set with like one hundred people were like.
Oh yeah, do you.
How about y'all?
Well, I think the idea of the best idea wins is something that in TV you have to kind of approach every day you show up on set, every scene you're walking into with that attitude, and I think that was something that I was able over the years to cultivate. Took a while. Sometimes you know, there's a trial and error, but the more that you learn how to really listen to someone else's idea and truly objectively try and judge.
I mean you're never going to always agree, You're not always going to agree, but many times you can and usually the best idea will surface and it's obvious to everyone, like and whether that's blocking the emotional tone of a scene. And so that I think has been really helpful in my just in my everyday life, when there's any kind of just monotonous problem solving, any kind of random thing that needs to be solved, and you get a couple of brains in a room and it's like, all right,
what's the best idea? How do we find that? And you sort of detach your ego from it. And I've found that to be very helpful.
Yeah, that it's funny my mind sort of exists between yours, because that's the motto from our show that I've kept that I repeat all the time that I say on.
Everything, it's a good script, you should read it.
Yes, you know, I remember how striking it was to hear our executive producer say the best idea always wins. And I would say honestly that the fascination with how you build a team that can really work together that was launched by that phrase of Greg's actually led me down the sort of larger part of my answer, which is that when we started our show, I didn't know
I was going to direct on it. And I know that I'm detail oriented and that there are certain sort of leadership skills that you know, I have from like growing up a camp counselor What directing led me into that I didn't expect was realizing that I'm a very good producer and that was something that had to be highlighted for me by our producers that we were close to on this show. And then I continued to it's not that I don't love directing. I do. I'd love to get back to it at some point, but I
am a good producer, you know. I was on the campaign trail yesterday sorting out a bunch of things, and Busy Phillips was with me, and we were laughing about how cool it was for both of us to be back in North Carolina, like seeing of the Dawson's Creek and one Tree Hill Crimes, you know, and at one point there was a problem and I was like, Oh, this is how we fix it. You do this, and
you do this and we'll go over here. And she was like, God, you're such a producer and we were laughing, and I realized that the shadowing I got to do that I thought was for directing really led me into
going like, yeah, I love to do that. But the thing I'm naturally the best at is this, and it's and it's been so helpful for me on all the movies that I've made and the TV shows that I've made since I'm like actually becoming a producer, which I never knew I was going to be, And it's so cool and so in a way, it feels like the extension of Greg's phrase, the best idea always wins. Like you might walk into a room because you think you're gonna do this, but you're gonna wind up discovering you're
great at that. And what a cool thing to be willing to sort of follow your curiosity and your natural inclinations to figuring out how to be the best member of a team.
That you can.
Yeah, you know, like I would never try to be the composer on a set. I'd be like joy, you have to compose, Like you're literally so good at it. Everything for you as a song, it's music, it's a musical even like I wouldn't know you could tell me your life depends on you writing a musical, and I'd be like, it's so nice to know all of you.
I loved you. You've all encouraged me to grow, Like I don't have that skill, and it's so cool, I think, especially all of us getting to be together in this way now that we get to see.
The natural, Like, yeah, it takes a team.
Ways that everyone's developed.
It's just I just love it. I think it's really neat. So yeah, I second that emotion.
All right, Yeah, teamwork. I love the idea that's that is so true. And I think something we forget about a lot, even falling into what you're talking about with therapy, Rob, like we we all tend we live in such a me culture that I think we forget that we really do need each other. We need each other for therapy, advice for this problem solving. Like teamwork is a real thing. You just you can get so much more done when you get out of your get out of your own way and just work as a team.
You know, it's awesome.
Yeah, yeah, it's really good.
Shall we spin a wheel?
Oh my gosh, we need as a team. Are we spinning a wheel?
Let's do it?
How funny? That I just said most likely to win their fantasy football league, and I got destroyed this first week, and I'm very upset about it. Oh my gosh, that is the question most likely to win their fantasy football league. Well not Rob Buckley, apparently, stop. I don't. We don't have enough time. I know some of us have hard outs. I have twenty five minutes of complainings to do that. I just don't think our audience cares about it. Wouldn't be me, though.
I will just go ahead and admit that I've never been in a fantasy football league. I've been to like the party where the people do the draft, mostly because I want the beer and the wings. But I've never done it, so I don't get it. I know it's a huge world subculture, niche.
Culture, don't.
I don't even know what the right word to describe it is, but I just know that I don't do it.
Have you ever done it?
Joy?
Now? They used to pass a chart around on set member and you could put money into it, and somebody I would just like, I'd hand the five dollars and be like, put it on a square. I don't know. I like the number seven and I.
Like blue it's great. I got into it because my friends from high school were like, hey, we have nine of us, we need to want more playing this. And I didn't care at all about football, and I only did it because I thought, well, for four months out of the year, I'll talk more with these guys more regularly.
It was just about connection, and then I caught the bug. Yeah, and now I'm trying to find the balance between I was literally just venting about this to a buddy last night because I was like, in theory, I like this game, but it's definitely not benefiting my mental health. Like I was trying to actually go, Yeah, how much of this day is about it was a hard day of parenting versus I made a terrible trade that just blew up in my face.
Oh no, can I ask.
A question because I don't know how this works. Do you, like, I get what it is to make a fantasy football team, But then does that mean that you have to watch all the games or is there some sort of app or website that gives you the info every week?
Oh yeah, it's it's all on an app. So it's like it's either just like three big ones that do it.
I realized I just sounded like a grandma, But I just don't.
I have no idea either. Why did they even pass Do you remember when they would pass around a chart on set.
That wasn't fantasy football, that was betting on individual games?
What's that called?
That was like a football pool sometimes it can be called survivor pools. That she just called like a pick them, We'll be like five bucks on green Bay plus two points.
You know, I actually have no idea what fantasy football is. I mean, I've heard of the term, but I I have no idea.
D and D for guys who like to think they're jocks.
Yeah, yes, sounds about right and what I would like to vote for. I think the only way you could convince me to play fantasy football is to do it the way I just found out my friend's cousin did it, or rather my friend's cousin's girlfriend. She got suckered into being in a fantasy football league with a bunch of people and was like, yeah, I'll do it if I can only draft guys named Jake. So her entire team
is made up of football players named Jake. And she's actually crushed people more than once now, and I'm i deeply respect it, so we will see if I can get some more information on that.
She was like, don't care, don't even need to know what positions they play.
I'm just gonna do this for fun and see what happens.
Is Jake the name of someone special in her life or was that just totally arbitrary, don't.
I just noticed there's a lot of football players named Jake, And she was like, Jake.
Maybe the thing is to figure out, like the how many people do you have on a team?
Oh, like eleven, maybe eleven or twelve? Yeah, eleven or twelve?
Oh I was close.
Okay, so we should look up the I don't know, five to ten most common names in the NFL and then have our teams that way and see how we do. I'm just like one season, like everybody gets all the Johns, everybody gets all the Williams, everybody, you know.
Yeah, the problem is that, like, for example, her team right now would not have a starting quarterback, so it would be tough. I heard if someone drafting just players they thought were handsome, and I thought that was really funny. And the thing is that person will end up winning the league. It's this maddening thing. Where it's like the more effort you put into it, it's like the sweatiest guy in the league who does the most trades and analysis usually ends up doing terribly. It's the person who
picks all the jakes who wins. Yeah, listen, maybe next season we do one. We just do like, you know, a small league with us, and it's just for funzies. We all throw in like fifty, but they can go to charity or whatever. It's just bragging rights. Yeah, and we can talk trash a little bit.
I'll learn I want to learn it.
Maybe we can get like you know, little grease jackets or something.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like high school football.
Oh but we're a basketball show. But we could do it with basketball.
They make trophies for this.
Do people play fantasy basketball? Oh?
It's everything is fantasy now, So if yeah, is it everyone is trying to check out these days. There's like fantasy golf, there's fantasy everything. Yeah.
I'm down for dram Queens to become a sports podcast. I think that's hilarious, the incredible.
Honestly, it would be kind of great, kind of would and then and then you and then you go to someone you're it's like, Hey, soph what'd you think about?
And I'm like what, Sorry, I'm in the kitchen. I got a snack. Yeah huh yeah, Like nobody knows what's going on.
That's our spinoff podcast with snacks and sports, with people who know very little about sports but love snacks. Do we have any honorable mentions?
I mean, so if you don't, I one, Okay, this is what I was going to say.
I remember a lot.
Of this episode.
I clearly did not watch it because I watched the last one Oopsie Doodles. But I'm going to go ahead and give my honorable mention not to the episode, but to this concept because I think us doing a fantasy league as a cast would actually be totally sick and we could probably make a lot of money for charity. And I really like it.
I love it because like, seriously, if you wanted to go in on it, what you do is you raffle off, like someone to co manage the team with you. There's I mean, like, if this is actually don't want to do because I've seen companies do this a lot of people to raise money for seeing Jude's and like they raise obscene amounts of money for doing things like this.
I love that.
Yeah, let's dare me, let's go.
I'm on board. Okay, yeah, the honorable mention. I agree yourself. It's going to be our upcoming fantasy sports podcast in league that you all are going to be invited to, probably for a small a small fee that will go to towards charity. It's a donation donation, you know what that is.
It's a tax deduction. It's a win win for everybody. What do you think, Joy, do you have something from the actual episode?
I am of course on board with this, even though I really don't know anything about football, But that would still be fun because I can represent all of the people who don't know much about football but still want to engage and hang out with my friends. So I will be that person for you.
I just had an idea because the name thing is terrible, it's never going to work, and I can really fill a team. How about if you did it by astrological signs like I excuse me, my team is l Vergos. They're sassy like that would be incredible great.
I'll have to do a little more reading about the zodiac, but I'm into it because I will say as a person who doesn't pay much attention to it. Every time I hear an on point description of someone that I know based on their zodiac, I'm like, wait, they are exactly that person. Maybe maybe there's there's there's some there there is all I'm saying.
I've never heard of a lead doing that, but I love it.
Oh friends, thanks for hanging in with us. God next episode, Season seven, episode twelve, Some roads lead nowhere. I mean that's what this episode should have been titled. Oh God, every every road led nowhere in this episode. But I'm glad the next one is going to be just as hard to find.
I really hope we're on the up and it's.
Gonna be good.
It's gonna be in to find out.
Friends, Bye bye bye, Hey, thanks for listening.
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's ot.
Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com.
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