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Well, Hillary, you want to bring us in?
Oh my god, yes, guys. It is episode twenty four of season six, Remember Me as a Time of Day Air date May eighteenth, two thousand and nine. Uh, Nathan, Nathan. I just loved Haley and Nathan. This episode, he is released from the Chiefs and is forced to face Haley and Jamie. That's a that's a that's a bit miss Yeah. On the eve of Peyton's delivery, Lucas and Peyton receive us prize visit from Karen. This synopsis is wrote this
too short. This synopsis doesn't want you to know any spoilers, but we're gonna give them to you anyway.
I'm like, shouldn't they say the night of Peyton and Lucas's wedding not the eve of her delivery. What like it was planned?
Yeah, the uh, the imminent delivery.
It's a really dark teaser emergency delivery. Yeah, big episode, but big episode for everybody. I thought like this felt like a two hour special. It really did.
Yeah, every single character got a wrap up, including people we haven't seen in a long time. Yeah, no, am I wrong? You're like, well, you're like, you're nod in your head, what do you mean?
No, I agree.
Yeah, there were people that didn't get wrapped up. Did I miss anybody?
Well, we didn't see skills. Oh, shoot, that's it. Yes, he got kind of a nice wrap up in the last episode with Miss Lauren, like we knew that they were on a path. Yeah, this kind of set out the future of the show, knowing that everyone's on their path and everyone seems partnered up in a really healthy, happy way, and that is a feel good thing. I know that a lot of fans have said this felt like a series finale instead of a season finale, and it really I hadn't thought of it that way.
It was not on purpose.
We knew we were coming back, and it aren't even announcedream were coming back that one season. We didn't need a season finale or a series finale was the one we got one.
It almost felt like they'd written this, like they'd decided what the end of the show was going to be. Yeah, and then in six twenty one when we got the pick up, they were like, well, it's honestly a really good script, so.
Still a good episode.
Just leave it alone, you know, the same thing I was thinking. Absolutely, But it worked. I loved that, and also it gave it as a place to I mean, we did it the first time after for years to
come back. There was a wrap up, and then we came back not quite knowing what to expect in the next new phase of these characters' lives, and so especially knowing that you and Chad were leaving, I think they had to do something that was going to give viewers a sense of closure and feeling like this whole chapter is wrapped up, So we're going to start something new, but it has to be able to feel new without all these lingering issues.
Well, sometimes when a show has been on as long as ours was, no cliffhanger is a cliffhanger, right, People are so used to like, is Dan Scott dead? Who lit the fire? You know, people are so used to being teased in that way that when there's no teas it makes you suspicious. You're like, when's the other shoe get a job? Yeah, everybody's too, what's going on? It's all been a dream? Everyone's dead. Dan Scott had a point. This is hell, Oh Dan Scott even he got closure
with Whitey. What a romance there.
I ah not expecting that circle moment. So much about this episode that I completely forgot no recollection of this so much, I have so many notes.
I vividly remember the very first thing we see when Chad carried me into the hospital and that shot kisses Peyton's arm. It happens in a blink, and I had completely like forgotten about it until I watched it in the episode and just had the muscle memory of Chad doing that and being I couldn't react because I'm like comatose, right, but being so choked up that his immediate reaction was to kiss anybody part of mine that he could reach because it might be the last time he gets to
do that. Like that's still I'm still choked up, Like it was such a it was a good instinct for him, and I don't know if people even clock it, but yeah I did, because it's also a weird thing when someone kisses you like close to your armpit. It's not like a natural not a natural spot. But I thought it was such a sincere gesture. I liked it.
Yeah, when Chad shows up, he shows up, and he showed up in this episode. His performance was really beautiful.
It's it's also so interesting to realize how much, to your point, some of the stuff from this episode stuck.
With all of us.
Like when we were watching six twenty three, I was like, well, where's the shot of you bleeding in the drag? Like I've never seen it? How dare they edit this for streaming? And then I was like, oh, there it is. Wow, that's really burned into my brain in a way, Like there's so many things that that stick. And I think it is to your point, it's because people really showed
up and because they wrote this. Sure, it's kind of a wrap up, but it's like, really it's emotional wish fulfillment and you've wanted these people to have their dreams come true for six years. And I mean I cried
through the entire episode. Yeah, and I thought I just thought every single thing worked like from War Sweater being the first song with that haunting like violin string and just all of it, like it starts in this really emotional, terrifying place and then as everything begins to grow happier and you see this payoff, like I don't know, it flowed in a way. The whole episode felt like music to me. It was really special to watch it again.
It was a lot of montage, you know, the montage at the beginning where we're seeing everyone in places of loneliness or peril or darkness. That is a different way to start an episode. Hold on and I just everything was working for me until they go to gas Peyton and she opens her eyes and it turned into a
horror movie where it fell like the Twilight Zone. They were like coming to me with the mask and hooking on my arms and shit, and that was It was not a fun day at work, but it was funny to watch because it just went from being like everyone's sad, try Hill, We're all really emo, to wait a second, is this a horror movie? Like what's so funny?
Eat Hillary Mine. I have in my notes what a great moment that was for you. The because it's so easy to overact and make it feel like a horror movie where your eyes go wide.
And you're like, oh, all these things are coming to me.
And the camera's shot that the doctor's hands coming out your face and all that. It's a very it was a very horror movie shot. But because of the expression on your face, because you didn't overact, you were completely there still and all you did was look around with this innocent like days, it was really good because you could have overacted it. I mean anybody could have just you know, open up your eyes wide and look scared. That's easy to do. But you didn't, and so I
bought it, and it's in my notes. I was like, that was a really well done moment for.
You, guys. How do we feel about the O R viewing room?
In my notes in all caps, they would never allow him in the operating gallery.
They would never let us watch you have a C section, guys. I said this on set that day. Yeah, we all were like what are we doing?
And they didn't care. They were like, it's emotional. We were like sure, or it's gonna be the thing that ruins the emotion because everyone watching the show is going to be like, well, that's fucking stupid.
I have never been to a hospital at all with like a I don't know it's operating Galla orange? Yeah, is that the green room up there? Is that just snack? Well?
What made it even funnier was that they cut the glass out. Do you remember that they had the glass up and they got us all in there, and they tried forever to get the setup right so that they could get all of us in the shot and not have reflections of the camera, and finally they were just like, pull the glass out, and then we were really like, oh, come on, you can just see straight through it.
Lucas's hands were you guys, It's like Evita for me. I I enjoyed that. I mean it was funny and totally unbelievable. But also, you know in tree Hill, anytime something bad happens to you, there has to be an audience, and I you know, everybody else gets hurt on a basketball court or out on the street in front of everybody, Payne just gets hurt in her house. So we had to invite the audience in. We had to bring everybody
to her. But we shot the episode totally backwards, so that actually was the last thing we shot, and we shot all the happy ship first.
Oh that's why you were saying you were covered in blood on your last day.
Oh yeah, I mean we shot all the happy stuff first. So the day that we drove off into the sunset was what we shot first. Oh, a motorcycle gang just drove by. Oh hello boys. It's all like seventy year old dudes. So we were out on the street and there's like a viral video that's going around on Instagram right now of Chad talking to fans and they're all like, are you coming back next year and he's like, no, they don't want me back. They're not going to pay me.
And it was from that day because we were out on the street and there's this huge crowd and they're like, Chad, we love Lucas, blah blah. And that surreal moment of my character's beloved, I've done my job, I've shown up, and this like you know, this mess is still happening was very weird. And so Chad made that comment and I don't know that he knew a fan was getting it on camera. But then then we were in trouble for spoiling the end of the show. I mean it
was just a comedy of errors. But the baby smiled and everyone knew that was magic. So we only had to do it like two times because they were like, well we got it that shot again. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. It was a weird. It was just a weird experience.
Well, it was also like sort of surreal to me because the song over the end is can't you See And in the moment where you guys drive away and it goes up into that big beautiful crane shot, the lyric that plays over the car beginning to move is Ain't Never coming back?
And I was like, I didn't catch that. It like it.
It made me jump when I heard it, and I was like, that feels really surreal that that was the moment of the sink And I was like, was that on purpose? Did that just happen? I don't know, it was. It was bizarre. So to hear that not only the scene feels bizarre to watch, but that it was so bizarre irl is interesting.
Well, and for people at home, our boss wrote and directed this episode, so for all of the trauma of the latter, it was like two months of weirdness at the end there then like your grand finale, your final exit is with the person who was at the epicenter of just making this awful. There was no getting around it, and so maybe that's why I'm kind of I've got some gallows humor about it, because that was the only way to function, just like, okay, cool, kill me, now
kill me. It'll be fine. I'm gonna be great. I felt like Dan Scott in the episode, honestly, yea, and Dan is so great in this because it's just like, I don't know where this went sideways. I'm gonna I'll try to go all the way back. I'll try to look as far back as humanly possible to see where I'm at fault here. And yeah, I liked that we got to see Whitey again.
I loved that moment.
I needed that visual break from Tree Hill to go out on a ranch, a random ranch house somewhere and see Mary walking around to the horse in the wood paneled home and old vintage couch fabric. There was something about that that was a really nice break that helped me continue to feel the flow of everybody else's storylines rather than it feeling all blending into one. I was so surprised to see Whitey did not remember that Dan goes back to him.
I didn't either. I thought it was such a cool choice though, Oh so great.
Yeah, And like you're saying, Hillary, going all the way back to the beginning, He's like, what's the moment that it had to have been before then? In real life? Obviously, in real life, in the real life park of Dan and whatever, you know, like it had real life and yeah, dance made up for life. It had to actually go back further than that. But the moment where he says he's talking about everybody having these new moments in their life, and he says, and I don't get to feel those moments.
It really struck me about how somebody grows into a place where you can't. It's not that people are cutting you out of feeling those moments. I mean they are, but also you're incapable even if they let you in. You can't allow yourself to feel it because of all the things that you've done in your life to lead you that place. And Whitey comes in with this line and you created that Danny, Oh got me.
That was a weird line to me though, because he's just spent all this quality time with Jamie and so I didn't understand if he was saying, I don't feel anything when I get to experience that because Haley and Nathan have let him in, they have let him be with Jamie. He has spent a huge part of that kid's life, and I was like it was a weird thing to kind of minimize that, considering how important it
has been to Dan. Dan's also kind of grandiose, though, and when he's feeling sorry for himself everything's wrong, when really he still has a beautiful beach house like you, Dan.
You know, I think it's true that he has trouble feeling it like I think he wants to. But it makes sense to me that he would even have access to some of these things, like a relationship with his grandson and still feel like I can't feel what I'm supposed to feel here because I'm blocked because I don't believe I deserve it because I've done all these shitty things. People are complex, and I.
Think there's something interesting too about particularly when you think about what he says to Peyton when he says, she's the only one in my life who doesn't know what I've done, because now even Jamie knows. And I wonder if for him. What he's trying to acknowledge and you know what the writers didn't say, but it is that maybe, like being with Jamie is hard because he gets just
a touch, like just a taste. He gets to hold Sawyer for just a moment before you take her back, and I could see how much it affected you to see him with her. And I wonder if what he's trying to say is that no matter what he knows, he's on the outside.
Yeah. Boys, his sons won't talk.
To him, like maybe the kid will, but nobody really lets him in their adult lives.
In a meaningful way.
Yeah, and you know, Nathan walking around him to go be with Whitey, all of it. It's such an interesting thing because hell for Dan Scott is accountability. Yeah, he's on the outside because he's being held accountable for his actions and it is so painful for him.
Yeah, that's it.
It's like that's what shame does. It stops you from being able to really enjoy the good things because it's just you have to kind of cut yourself off from it because the stakes are too high. You built up too much, so you either have to double down or you can ask for forgiveness. And try and forgive yourself. But it's painful to do that. And when with somebody like Dan who's done so many clearly morally objectionable, questionable
wrong things. Yeah, the level of shame, like how do you how do you move past that?
Don't you love them? Both Scott boys on the same day, in the same hour went to their coach, Like Nathan goes to his coach to deliver some amazing news and Dan goes to his coach to ask him to kill him. You know, like the role of mentors in a person's life, it's really important. And and Whitey having removed himself from Tree Hill, you know, he used to live in a house a couple of doors down from Lucas Scott because he went Lucas's house, Whitey's house, Jake Jigelski's house when
we were filming in that area. Yeah, he's now lived his best cowboy life.
Yeah.
They really let Barry be Barry did those ties last forever?
You know?
And we see our boys coaching basketball now and wonder you know, Nathan goes to Quentin's grave. Those are the legacies. It's not blood, it's not family, it's it's that genuine care that you choose, and Whitey still is coaching Dan. He's coaching Dan through the self loathing even though he hates this, dude, just love it.
It's also a really interesting thing too. We're having all these meditations on family in this episode and what family and future looks like to people, and you know, is it everything you always dreamed? And Dan struggles with this idea that one of his sons has just had a baby and he knows he won't be in their life, so he goes to the only father figure he ever really had, which is Whitey.
Yeah, And.
What a wild thing it must be for him to realize that his boys feel the same, that Whitey was much more a father figure to them, oh than Dan ever was.
Wow, we needed more of Whitey this season.
We really did.
Also, like, Whitey didn't choose that. It's so like just in piggybacking off of what you're saying, too, Hillary, because he didn't choose that. He's like, I'm sure he was not in the mood to mentor and be held account holding this jackass accountable for the rest of his life in town.
Yeah, constantly coached him at fifteen years old. He's like, I got to do with Danny for how long?
Yeah?
But it's amazing how life does that, just keeps weaving people together, kept putting Whitey in his path and Dan and his Oh man, it's good storytelling, guys. It is.
There should have been a trigger warning on this ideation, the suicide bit, because you know, we've seen Nathan struggle with it, We've seen Dan struggle with it. That is something that is really sensitive, and Dan clearly is exhibiting signs of distress. And I'm just like, did anybody make a phone call after that? Or was it just like not in my living room?
Right?
Just God, please do that somewhere else like that. Honestly, that was making me crazy. I was like, is Dan Scott so selfish that he's gonna go off himself in Whitey's dream home? Like? That was something that was scary for me because I was just like, what is he doing? He's still not thinking about anybody other than himself in this moment, and it was it was stressful to witness. Yeah, and she didn't give trigger warnings very well.
What a surreal thing like when you really think about that.
To.
Ask a person who's known you most of your life.
To kill you like.
That is so heavy and I hadn't I hadn't thought about what you were saying just now Hill in that way, like the pressure to to put that pressure on someone else.
My god, Dan is such a narcissist. Yeah, because then he's still not held accountable. Then it's white he shot him instead of him shooting himself. The accountability thing, You're right, is like that's his kryptonite. He can't deal and he makes assumptions about relationship that I don't think are there, assuming that he was closer with Whitey than he really was. When he talks about Sawyer and he says, she's the only person in my life that doesn't know what I've
done in my head. I remember on the day and when I just watched it back, thinking, you think she's in your life, right, but you think there's a relationship there. Yeah, that's weird. I would have never thought that.
Yeah, he's he's so turned upside down. He doesn't know what's up and what's down. That's what's so beautiful to
me about Whitey hugging him in that moment. That felt so I wish we'd had more time with it, because you could see how much work and time Paul and Barry had put into that scene, and he only had an hour for the episode, you know, but man, I would like to have spent a little more time there with them and that hug and just somebody letting him know there's if there's a sliver of hope for you,
I'm willing to extend. In spite of all the things you've done and all the things you've done to me, I'm still willing to give you a hug and show you love and compassion. That's outrageous, It's really beautiful.
Well, he also I was scared for a moment that Whitey was gonna, like really buy it. Barry was so good in that when Nathan walks up, I was scared that Nathan's moment was going to be ruined by Whitey being like, you should share this with your father's son. Yeah. No, they just like went and had the moment and Dan had to walk away. And so while he showed compassion, he's still maintained the boundary. Yes, you are on the outside, Danny, and there's hope for you to be on the inside,
but you're gonna have to do the work. I'm not your liaison I'm not your bridge. You go figure you out and do the work. Yeah, And I think that's important because we've given Dan's got chance after chance after chance, and there are just certain personalities that cannot get out of their own way and it's not anybody else's job to fix them. He can sit. Maybe that applies to
our boss as well. There were so many apology speeches in this script, and there was a part of me sitting there listening to them, being like, what beautiful words, what wisdom, what karma? Yeah, it's do the work. And Dan hasn't done the work.
He's on this journey now though it's like it seems like it's actually starting, but we've had so many moments of him feeling like he's actually starting, and so that's what And so many people have told him that and directly been there walking through that with him and giving him these chances. And I want to believe it's new, but I guess we'll see, we'll see what happens.
I think when you take inventory of your life and you look at the people who have stood by you, and you look at the people who you were us together with, there are people that need chance after chance after chance, after chance after chance, and they're addicted to new beginnings. They are addicted to conflict and resolution. In my forties, I'm only now realizing to steer clear of
those people. I don't know if that's true. I think it's really important to be empathetic and hold them at arm's length because there are so many people out there that are consistent and stable and supportive and safe, and in realizing that, there's personality addictions. Like Dan Scott clearly has this problem with wanting to start over and over and over again, but never actually takes off. He never actually gets to chapter two. He's always at chapter one of the of the realization.
Oh, you're saying like it's Sisyphus's rock, like people who will get to the get to the breaking point and then turn around and sabotage themselves all the way back to the beginning. And then every time, Oh, I see what you're saying, because I was like, yeah, I mean, but everybody has to grow, like you have to have constant new beginnings. How else do you grow as a human.
I don't know if that's an addiction. I think that's actually like super important and healthy for people to continue to grow in relationship.
You can't continually sabotage your relationships over and over again. And that's what we see Dan do. Yeah, and we saw Lucas start to develop that pattern as a teenager and grow out of it as an adult, which is that's what you know, breaking generational curses is all about. That's why we love Lucas because we know what he could have been, we know what Nathan could have been, and their whole storyline is to break that generational curse and not follow what was modeled for them.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, and I think it's really it's a really interesting thing. And they're you know, it's kind of like JoJo's old phrase, right, like two horns on the same goat, Like they're close together but also wildly different, these two things we're talking about. You know, Yes, I think it's an incredible thing to grow throughout your life and to
be willing to. By the way, like when we talk about growth, when people you know, outgrow bad situations, or they decide to break generational trauma, or they realize they're in absolutely the wrong relationship and so they fucking leave. Like I will celebrate people who leave what is not good for them, who leave where they are being mistreated anytime. I don't care how long you were there. I don't
care when you figured it out. If it was bad for you, get out, like absolutely, And I also see exactly that thing you're saying Hill where there's some people who it's almost like people like Dan, people with those sort of personality disorders create drama and harm so they have something to talk about and fix.
A problem to solve.
Yeah, and it's I think it's really interesting. And you know, obviously one of the signs of like healthy self reflection when you're willing to take inventory and say like am I outgrowing something? Or am I running from something? Am I evolving in a good way? Or do I have
some crutch from my childhood or whatever? And it's like, you know, there's that like famous adage that when we talk about people like Dan, you know, when we talk about narcissists, a narcissist will often tell you you're the narcissist when you stop, when you start to refuse to be on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse anymore. Yeah, And you know, it's always a therapist who's helping you cope with that. As I know, we've all had to
in our own ways. Who says, like, if you the patient come in here and say, wait, could I be the narcissist? No, because a narcissist will never ask if they're a narcissist exactly, period, end of story. And so I think all of that stuff, like everything we've learned about who Dan is and how those sorts of personalities present.
And you know, the way Paul has been able to, as such a talented actor, humanize this man who's a nightmare, makes you feel for him in that moment, and it allows Whitey to feel for him in that moment and lovingly say to him, you did this. You are being held accountable for the choices you made. You murdered your brother. So it's really not surprising that your kids don't want to hang out with you.
Yeah, you know, and it's and it's wild to watch what a hard pill that.
Is for Dan to swallow.
Yeah, Like, so you can escape and run away, or if you're interested in redemption, there is hope for you if you're interested in it. Yeah, if not, but you're gonna have to do You get to choose.
Yeah, it's a big it's a big thing. And what an interesting thing too, like that the episode is actually so happy. You see people everywhere choosing their joy, but this, this heavy, heavy sort of anchor is in the middle of it.
But look at the flip side. Victoria is going through the same situation, right, And so Dan, who's apologized and apologized and apologize and apologized and apologize and apologize. I mean it is an endless what the Dan Scott wants a new chapter? Yeah? Sorry, Yeah, I'm bored bye. Victoria, on the other hand, has also been a terrible selfish me me and mom. And Victoria's apology in this episode hit me totally differently because I believed it.
Yeah, me too.
I think she actually will do the work. You can tell that she's already done the work because she has observed and been very specific in her apologies. Yes, And that to me is the mark of a true apology, because there's so many people that will say, well, whatever I did, I'm sorry you No, you're not, Yeah, you just wanted to end.
Yeah, And there's action behind it, behind her apology.
She's very specific. Yes, she hands over the companies, right, that's right.
And I like that you use the word observed because something I love about this last series of episodes is that we get to see and you know, they don't give you a lot of quiet time on camera, especially when you're in an ensemble cast like this. There's always scenes that wind up on the cutting room floor because you got to make the forty three minute line. Like you know, for our friends at Home. It so much gets cut out, all the air sometimes gets taken out.
And yet even in these jam packed episodes, we've gotten so many scenes where we watch Victoria observe what's happening around her, watching Brooke from behind, watching Brook with Sam, watching Julian, watching She's watching, and she's realizing so many things about her daughter's life that she just never knew
before because she was never around. And to see the culmination of all that observation be that authentic apology where she can look at Brooke and say, now I see and I know what you need to hear, and I'm sorry I didn't say it sooner. Oh I sobbed, I remember, I mean genuinely sobbing.
On the day I couldn't start. Daphnie and I just wept together and.
It made me cry. Today, the feeling of it is so visceral, and it is exactly that. It's because it's a real it's a real, deep observational apology, and there's substance to it.
Yeah, it requires real humility. It's not escape, it's not self pity. It's actual humility. And I want to grow, I want to change, And here's my attempt at action behind it. Here's also this is such a great example of tree Hill being such a central character in the arc of all of our storylines that you look at Dan who grew up in tree Hill, and he just takes it for granted. He takes everything that he has
for granted. Big fish in a small pond. Here comes Victoria, big fish in big pond, and comes into this tiny little town and her whole heart is rearranged because of her interactions with the people that live in this town and stand on street corners and have kisses in moonlight, and cars driving down the street that stop at red lights, and boys coming in and out of the store, and
girls without parents coming in and meeting her daughter. Like there's all these just beautiful, little romantic moments that have chipped away at the ice around her heart. And this moment was so satisfying for me because of that.
I think there are also some parents that struggle to connect with their children at different ages. So I know a lot of people who are really great with their kids until they hit about twelve. Everybody complains about like middle school because they're like, all of a sudden, my child's rebelling now, And I'm like, well, no, they're not. They're own people, you know, And so it's really easy
to love us year old, super easy. And then there are some people that are like little kids yack, and they wait until their kids are like seventeen eighteen to connect and have like a meaningful adult connection. And Victoria just might be one of those people who until she can speak to Brook woman to woman as an adult, she struggles with no k Like we don't see her with kids, we don't see her with like Jamie. She's not a natural nurturer. She's not going to hold a baby, you know.
Peyton would rather hand her baby to Dan Scott than Victoria.
A hundred of person, a hundred person.
But I love that her performance wasn't overly emotional. That was another thing that being someone who's not a natural nurturer, who wouldn't be great with kids, she's not a super emotional woman, or maybe she isn't.
She just hides it all.
But that's kind of also what made a great contrast to dance performance, which was super emotional, super intense. That Victoria, It's like, I'm not going to minimize your pain and what I've done to you by making this moment about me and needing you to comfort me because I'm crying and I feel bad about myself and i feel bad
about all the things that I've done. It's like she had enough respect for Brooke to hold that in ye and let it, let the moment really be about Brook again, so mature, so humble.
Loved it. I love that she talked about the dude that she loved and that was the thing that like got her. She's like, oh my god, I cannot let my daughter make this life changing mistake that ruined my life. Yes, meeting your father? Oof? I wonder who this guy was? Was it Gregory Harrison? Did they meet later? And she's like, oh, there you are.
So good?
Yeah?
Yeah, who's the guy that broke Victorious hard? Does he ever come back?
Is that a thing that they bring back later?
No? I mean you do meet my dad eventually, but I don't think no.
I bet he was like a Formula one race car driver or a painter.
Maybe he was a garbage man.
Well, he definitely was. He did because she says he didn't come from my circle. My parents wouldn't allow it, and I, you know, I don't know. I think that's a really profound thing as an adult and something that I realized nobody talks to us about when we're younger. You know, It's it's sort of been a big part of my journey is figuring out like well, everybody says things.
You hear these phrases like marriage is hard, and you know this is you really got to do the work, and like, well, okay, but how hard Cause I don't know. I've got friends, Like we've talked a lot about this, Hillary, Like in all the years I've watched you and Jeffrey, Like you guys done some hard work, but like you're always having a good time and it might seem insane, but like it really was this aha moment for me of like, hold on, I don't think hard is supposed to be torture.
Right, that's just a cry every day.
Yeah, for people who are used to laying down on the in the road so everybody else can walk all over that.
You know.
I was like, huh, I think like maybe sobbing at the kitchen table every night is like not the kind of hard that is sustainable.
Yeah, And I think there's something.
So poignant about this moment between Brooke and Victoria watching it now, like as a you know, woman in my early forties who has just had the wild last couple of years that I've had, It's like, I wish somebody had been able to have that conversation with me in my twenties, Like it's a conversation my mom and I are having now where it's like, just because you do everything you're supposed to do and everything society tells you to do, and and you check every box on the
list that is presented to us, which is more or less the same you know.
For each good girl.
Yeah girl, like and you do it and you're like, is this it? Like is my reward for doing everything right? Sobbing at my fucking kitchen table every night? Like really?
And I love I love.
That Victoria looks at her and says, I did what I was supposed to do. I picked the right kind of guy. And I've regretted it every day. Please don't do what I did. Please go chase what makes you happy, not the piece of paper or the guy from the right social circle or you know, picking the beginning of a season one of the knicks. Yeah, like, stop doing the pr and go do your life.
Stop doing the her is the thing when she said I don't give a show that it's close over, bros, that's bulls.
Yeah, you misnamed your company.
You need to take care of you and everything else will be fine. Yeah, Like I loved that. Yeah, I love that because old Victoria would have protected that brand at all costs.
Of course. And by the way, it's what we've all been cultured to do. And you realize how your work bleeds into your life, Like we've talked about it a lot on this show. You get told you got to show up. If you screw it up, you're screwing it up for two hundred other people. You you better grin and Barrett, you better do these days. You better not complain. And when you learn to be a good girl, a
good soldier, you of course you take that home with you. Yeah, and the permission slip to undo that, I mean, it changed my life and I love from this moment in me, my Sophia's life, watching this scene in this episode and going, holy shit, that is even more profound then. I knew it to be then, and I knew that scene was a big deal then because I couldn't stop crying like a baby all day while we shot.
You're so good. You were so shocked, you were flabbergasted to hear those words come out of her mouth. Yeah, And it was so like sweet to watch. It was almost like you were pinching yourself, like is this real? Is there gonna be a punchline at the end.
Yeah, When she says I am so proud of you, like capital s O like I, I burst into tears in the dead I was just like yeah.
But it's like it's it's a life lesson that we've applied here because for ten years I kept my mouth shut about what went on on our show because I didn't want to be it for the fans. I was a good girl. I towed the party line, you know what I mean, Like I did all the things I was told to do. I fulfilled the expectations. And the second I said get and I just started telling the truth about what really happened here. It didn't ruin it
for the fans. If anything, the love of our show and the fervor for our show has grown since we started telling the truth about what this was. And I hope that's you know, I hope that means something to somebody out there who's going through a similar situation. If you're honest about it, if you're honest about your feelings about the reality, the shame goes away, right, you can actually take pride in it again. I hated talking about our show for a full decade, and now I'm like, Jeffrey,
you got to watch this. We are adorable. We will never be cute or in our whole life. I'm so proud of this show because in telling the truth, I've been able to separate the stuff I didn't like and the stuff that I love. And so hearing victory like a woman on the show be that called arms, you're right, it is more meaningful now, all these years later.
Yeah, I see things in it that I didn't see them, and I love it. I love her so much. I didn't think I could love Daphne anymore, and here we are, and it makes me love our storyline even more because it echoes the same sort of thing that you and I get to have in this episode, Hillary, when I come to see you with the baby, like we're the love story. And I feel the same way about Daphne and about Victoria and Brooke. I'm like, now they're a love story too.
Yeah.
And it's so that's not to say our epic love stories Peyton and Lucas and Brook and Julian and Haley and Nathan are less valuable at all. You know, they're the wish fulfillment. But the friendships we forge, they're the things that raise us. They are the places we go home to, Like, you know, it's just a different thing. And when your best friend has a baby and you're like, oh great, he's gone, Well it's our baby.
This is actually our baby. Five.
Victoria gave Brook what she's been searching for this whole time, I mean the whole time we've known Brook. She's been searching for that permission to stop, to be okay with the mess. I feel like Brook's always pushing, She's always like, the mess is okay, It's okay, we have to be messy. But it's also like in action, it's all like trying to be perfect all the time and then falling apart
and then trying to put it all together again. And Victoria is the only person in the world who can give that to her because she's the one who created the problem in the first place with Brook by raising her to be someone who felt the constant need to perform. Yeah, and by giving her this gift of the opposite perspective that she's always been told. I'm really curious to see how that progresses for Brook having this now new permission. The release is.
Brook gonna wear sweatpants? Now? Could the imagine Brooke Lane in Sam's bed, in the bedroom that looks just like Peyton's old bedroom. Yeah, Brook Lane in the bed with her mini skirt and her perfect hels. I was like, Brooke Davis needs to Yeah, I'm like, could I just have like some house shoes?
What are we doing?
Does Brook not have a robe? She is in action has to be perfect all the time. So Yeah, I love I love what you're saying. Their joy. The Victoria is the only one that can break that spell.
Friends, we're getting the signal from our producers that we've done a whole episode, but we're clearly not done talking we have a lot to discuss, and honestly, after six seasons, I think we've earned it. So let's come back in the next episode for part two.
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