Dial 988 • EP316 w/Colin Fickes

all just going to stay in it with you. It feels like a hard one to take breaks on, and we're very grateful to all of our sponsors for giving us permission to air this episode uninterrupted, and we love you. This episode deals with the topics of depression and suicide. If you are someone you know is suffering, please call the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing eight. Hey, guys, we're not even gonna try to hide the emotions in this one. Um This week, we're watching season three, episode

sixteen with tired eyes, tired minds, tired souls. We slept. You might remember that this aired March one of two thousand six and three. Sixteen is the episode where a regular school day at tree Hill High turns incredibly dangerous and into a tragedy because Jimmy Edwards brings a gun

to school and we're all a mess. And we've been reading a lot of your messages and I think what's struck the three of us so much is that a lot of you have written about how you've rewatched this show so many times before we started our podcast, and that very often you all skipped this episode. Yeah, and I kind of wish we could have skipped this episode. Glad we're going to talk about it. I am too,

first and foremost. I love you guys, And yeah, I'm having trouble like making eye contact because I just need to. I don't want to do it. So um, here's what I want to say though, before we bring in our guests today, because they're really lucky that we have a fabulous guests today. We'll bring them in very soon. Um. As the mother of a boy, m hm, this is something that has troubled me since the moment he was born.

And years after we shot this episode, in two thousand ten, a book came out called Columbine, and it was written by one of the first journalists who arrived on that scene. He helped perpetuate the myth that it was the loners and the kids that were bullied, that we're committing these crimes. And then he spent the last the ten years after that undoing it as he learned more about the voice that that did Columbine. And as a mother, it was really important to me to learn more about that kind

of anger. Um, that kind of behavior with the warning signs are And so we as the first generation of people who lived through Columbine. I was a sophie and I were juniors when it happened. Joy, you were senior. You know. It happened while we were in high school, and UM, I think it's safe to say it affected all of us a lot. And now we're parents, and what are we going to do about it? You know?

That's what's really um heavy, is that I think when we were teenagers, we thought the grown ups would fix it, and here we are the grown ups and we're still dealing with it. And I wish we'd known when we filmed this episode what we have come to know about how these situations get built up. UM. But I think the reactions the same, you know, I don't. I think we've learned a lot about the kinds of people who who perpetrate these crimes. It's not the Trench Code mafia.

It's not my friends who were the goth kids. It's not even the bullied kids. It's the radicalized, misogynistic kids who are engaged in forms of domestic violence. Um, there are red flags. And so Colin did a wonderful job with with the information we had at the time. Um, he did such a beautiful job with what was written. And he the human as the person suffering, and it's it's an incredible skill as a performer to play someone who could be put in the category of villain at

a level like this. You know, someone who shoots up a school and I don't know if it was happenstance are intentional that they did make him such a different character, you know, they made him a kid with a handgun who fired a warning shot. They made him that he

isn't one of the kids who does this. And you're right, it's incredibly important that as we have all the information we have, we talk about, you know, the grooming by violent extremist groups of young boys in this country online, and that we didn't know any of that then, that didn't that didn't exist in our awareness then, and there is a part of me that wonders if, and I'm only realizing I wish we could ask the writers in this moment, if if for some of the reasons or

some of the understanding that we didn't know why kids were carrying assault rifles in the high schools, is that why they wrote Jimmy to be different? Is that why they wrote this differently? Is that why they humanized every single person in that tutor center in the way that they did. I don't know the answers, but um, I do think to your point, Oh, it's incredibly important that we we get clear on what we know about how this happens while we also go through the emotions of

experiencing something like this together. That was rough, It was so hard to watch, and so I was so blown away by Colin's performance. Um that moment when he fired the first shot and his eyes went wide, he was just so shocked his own behavior, what he was keeping. He was scared, but he was scared. But it's like once you once you make that choice, any choice in life that is um wrong, but you do it, and then you have to decide whether you're going to double

down or quickly say WHOA, this is wrong. I'm I'm backing out, and very rarely, I think too people back out. Um and then you know, to watch it all just continue to snowball down. As he continued to fall down into this pit of despair, it was hard. Do you guys remember when we got the script? Like Joy, you were the one in the classroom with Jimmy, Do you remember getting the script for this? I don't remember getting

the script. I wish I did. I just remember being really mad because I did not want to do this. Like I've always really believed in the power of words and the power of suggestion, and the more you talk about something, the more it happens. And that was my mindset in my early twenties, like why are we even bringing this up? Why are we planting this scene? I mean, here we are, almost twenty years later, and the ship just keeps happening no matter how much we talk about it.

I remember getting the script, and I remember they printed it all on red pages so it couldn't be copied or leaked or anything. And you know, hill to your point about Columbine, I like I had to go be by myself for a while after I read this because it took me back to junior year and Mr. Hollman's science class. One of my best friends from growing up lived in Colorado starting in high school and for the first I think it was like an hour and we

heard there was a school shooting in Colorado. Nobody, nobody knew where or at least we couldn't get information in our class, like nobody had iPhones, you couldn't. And we were teenagers and it's not like they put the news on in school and we were just waiting. And I remember thinking like, what if it's her school? And this script really brought that home, like, oh, this this We now are tasked with representing the people who say today it's my school, and it's it was hard. I mean,

this this stuff is it's hard to know. You know. They said, well, if we're going to go out, let's let's tell the truest story we know. And there's the reality of why are we going to put this on TV? And there's there's so many things that are true at the same time. We need to examine this and are we setting are we putting this in someone's mind and are we going to traumatize people or are we going to educate people or it's so big and it felt like an education to me. I thought it was so

beautifully done. I mean the things that were said, mouth is Mouth's speech beautiful, incredible. Um, the whole conversation was had from all angles, and I loved that that they everyone addressed all of their feelings and fears and it was just all laid out in the open. And um, I thought it was done really, really well. And that's really on Colin. I mean, he grounded this episode. I can't imagine being handed this script as him. Yeah, bring him in. Where's our friend? Guys, were so lucky that

Colin is joining us today. There's no way we could have this conversation without him. Um, So Colin Fickis is here to join us our very own Jimmy Edwards, the most beloved bad guy in the history of One Tree Home. He's not a bad kid. He's not a bad kid. He's a good kid. I miss you. I'm the waves in Zu Colin. You look great. It's great to see you're the one. You're absolutely the fun one. And we have to talk about dark with you, and that that's hard. So we can do it. We can do it. We

can do hard things right right. Where are you right now? Are you in the city, in the city, Yeah, I'm in We have an apartment in the city, and then I am moving up state from my job. You are house yester day, So lots of things happening. Good to see you all, see you. Um, Colin, did you watch

the episode or was it too hard to? I did, but I also fast forwarded song because I was just like, it's yeah, I think about the Paul Thomas Anderson quote from Magnolia a lot like you maybe through with the past, but the past is not through with you. I mean that's fairly relevant for what we're doing here. But um, I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to watch, very hard

to watch. Well, so you were amazing. Let's talk about your experience on the show though, because I think that did play a part in kind of how this all came full circle. Um. You know, we've definitely talked about things that have gone on behind the scenes on One Tree Hill, and I know that you were not treated well behind the scenes. Um yeah, well yeah, and I don't want to talk negatively, but yeah, I mean it

wasn't it wasn't the most ideal thing that happened. Um, I know we have a limited amount of time, but um, I wanted to audition in l A. I've been living in l A for several years already. I lived in New York for three years. Um, and so I kind of branched out from North Carolina. I'm originally from Raleigh, North Carolina, and so growing up I would go to drive two hours to Limingtoln for auditions. I knew Lee Norris as a kid. We would audition together sometimes, so

we kind of already had that relationship. And I know they were already eyeing him for the for the role of Mouth, and I was like, hey, guys, I'd love to be a part of it. Can I audition in l A? Because I had other friends audition in l A? And they were like, this is a local hire. And then I was like, well, you know, can I please audition in l A? And um, you know I live here and I think that might be tough to do.

And then um, they finally granted me an audition in l A. And um, They're like Nope, nope, not right for the part. And then um, thinking and and associates, the casting agents in North Carolina were huge champions of mine and they're amazing and they're like, we prom to see you. He's right, he knows Lee. Um, just you know,

give him another chance. And so then on my own time, I went to North Carolina and did the exact same audition I did in the room in l A. And they're like, you got the job, kid, and uh and and then I ended up having you know, to you know, get myself to North Carolina. I was paying for an apartment in North Carolina. I was also at my place in l A. And so what happened is I ended

up leaving the show because I couldn't afford to stay. Um. And I noticed in the second and third episode, as scripts were you know, getting revised, we were getting or at least my part was getting smaller and smaller and smaller, and working one day at for every two weeks or whatever it was. I couldn't make it work. Um. And so I didn't want to leave, but um, you know, it was hard. And then you have the creator saying things like the studio they only want the pretty people,

and I'm really trying to fight for you all. And then I felt bad for leaving because I knew he was trying to fight and fight for me to stay, and um, so it was difficult and I didn't want to leave. But also in hindsight, I mean, it's the most amazing thing because I always wanted to be this dramatic actor. I wanted to be like the next Philip

stem More Hoffman. That was like my dream, and had done some indie movies and like I wanted to do like drama and so to get to come back and do this was so much fun, as hard as it was, but you know, so like, yeah, that was that was well,

it feels meta. It feels like Jimmy Edward was left behind by the group in season one only to like become this big deal in our season three storyline and behind the scenes, our show loved taking things that were happening in real life and kind of utilizing them on screen. And so it you know, that was that was your story and Jimmy story of we're going to leave you behind,

but then we're gonna bring you back in like huge fashion. Um, Meanwhile, how did they know you were such a good dramatic actor, Because Colin, there's no one else could have done this. They trusted you with this entire episode which was so. I mean, it was all resting on you. If you didn't pull that off, it wouldn't have worked. I don't

know where that trust came from. I really don't, because I'm trying to think how I've done anything at that point, um where they would have seen that, I'm not sure. I guess they took a big chance on me. And it's so funny too how it happened. My friend kill Venture was at a bar in l A and met one of the writers, I think, and she calls me and she's like, I met this dude that's a writer on Winter Hill. He says, you're gonna be back on the show, and I was like, I haven't heard anything.

I was like, I don't think so. I don't even ended well when I left. And then a couple of weeks later, I got a call and the creator wanted to have me in the office at the Warner Brothers lot. And as I'm walking through the offices, I see the white boards of all the story progression and I see Jimmy Edwards, Jimmy Edwards, and I'm like, what is happened the idea? And I obviously was like absolutely so, because yeah, actors want to work, and um, you know I wanted

to do the dramatic things as well. Um, so it worked out. How how did you begin to prepare for something like this, because you know we've all been talking about everything shifted so dramatically, you know in the late nineties when Columbine happened. I mean it literally it changed all of us, It changed our country. And yeah, I don't know. I just think, at least for me, had I been in your position receiving that script, I know I would have panicked. You know this, this is big?

So how do you begin to even make sense of it? Because watching it back, we watched you so closely, and every choice you made, every everything you put under, the words and and the sensitivity and the both and the rage and the shame and the fear. It's it's just so present, alive on screen and on your face. And maybe it's a defense mechanism because the emotional stuff makes me so hysterically when we talk about it. So I'm like,

talk to me about true craft truly? How How did how did you begin to figure out how to make this true? For Jimmy, Um, it was less about what he does and more about what he feels. I like, all I could think about was what would get someone to get to this what would call someone to get to this place? Um? And so I started there. Um. And then obviously once I got the script, which everyone else had read the damn thing before I got it.

Really it was days. I had days, what days, I think maybe five five days to start, you know, going. And I remember Hillary, I passed you at base camp and now You're like, have you read it? You know? And I'm like, no, I have, didn't you know? It's ready? And um, So I literally locked myself in a hotel room and God bless my mom who would just come with me as she sat with me in that hotel room and ran those scenes non stop. That's all I did. I just stayed within that hotel room for several days

and learned it. And you know, I grew up doing theaters, so it was like I just sat there and just absorbed it all and was trying to just find all of the things in the script. And um. But yeah, I mean, you think about all the times we've all felt like him, We've all felt excluded or not right or um, you know, sad, lonely. I mean, all the descriptive words you can think of. We all go through phases. I think his obviously more intense. Um. But yeah, I

mean that's that's kind of how I started. If that makes I don't know, I'm rambling. I remember being in that room with you and that you were that we were all so impressed with how I mean you knew every word, you knew it, you knew it all. I didn't. I didn't want to waste time. And I know when a crew members one in the morning and they're wanting to go home and sleep, I was like, I'm going

to know all of these loves. I mean, we all had the patience, we had, we all were ready to for I think none none of us knew really what to expect when we walked in that day, I mean other than what was on the page. But um, everyone was ready. I mean everyone was so everyone showed up and joy I loved being in that tutor was the tutor room with with you because I just remember locking in with you a lot during that and so it

was nice because those were long days. I remember losing that voice because we were we were somewhat shooting in order, and I learned so much as an actor doing it because I was like, don't you know, don't blow it all in the first take. You got to kind of have reserves and say, you know, you're even contemplating. I lost my voice. They were gonna give me like a shot in my neck or something that was gonna like

get my voice. My gosh, wait, I remember I remember hearing something about this team and then I was taking like Sarah flu to try to get my voice better. Even this is t m I, but I threw up the very opening scene with the cigarette I guess from it was early in the morning when we were shooting it, and that the therapy flu or whatever. I like. I

totally calling this sounds a miserable experience. You know, normally on set you have the levity, you have the relief of the levity between scenes and the you know, just kind of hanging around shooting the ship thing. But that was not None of us had that for this episode

at all. There was no relief. It was relentless, and I think it worked for us performance wise, but it was it was exhausting, and I'm so glad that we all had each other and that, you know, a that you were so prepared and so ready and vulnerable and ready to do you know, whatever it took, and it really set an example for for everybody to to show up in this way and just everyone. I think, you know, acting is not just one person, it's the whole the

whole time. Speaking of I will say I was so amazed that Sophia, you and Lee came back to set. I think, Hillary, you're already there, and so like from the last shot, I just have to say it, like y'all came back and it was like, it was so amazing. Joy. You were probably exhausted and because many crazy scenes, but I just remember that and it's it really is those

little things that like really make it all count. But I was going to quickly say when we rehearsed the I wore a bulletproof vest and there was a blank in the gun and we actually apparently from what I heard, the props master whoever it was, told me that we rehearsed that on the same sale stage that Brendan Lee was shot. And really, yeah, it was super creepy. It was like really heavy. And then I don't know if you've ever done that in a scene, but I couldn't sleep.

I kept thinking I was dead that night, Like I was choking. It was so crazy. And I'm not a method actor by any means, but like it was, it was a mind trip for sure, that it was just so intense where you went and in the in that last scene. I remember watching it at the time coming back, and I remember watching it when it aired, and and even watching it today, it's like I have such visceral sense memory of um, what it felt like like watching

the way that you were beating your chest. Did this like it broke my heart and again just what you brought to it. There was something really incredible, even as a viewer about being in that tutor center with you all, because they gave us our core team, and then they gave us the newer characters, you know, Rachel being the newest sort of main person, and then the jock kid whose mom calls an abbey you who's a diabetic. Such

a beautiful actor, and and everyone's experiences are represented. Everyone gets to voice how they might be a stereotype, that

they also have their own experience. Nobody sees. And I remember while we watched it what minutes ago now thinking wow, they did this thing where everyone's telling the truth even though their truths are different, and and you just brought it over and over and over again, and yeah, I even then it it felt like something so important to witness, and it feels so important too to witness it again. And I'm just and why is it happening? Why does

it still happen? That is the thing that really was difficult for me and watching this, because I feel like the goal when we made this episode, like what was our goal? Let's think about that? Was it too educate grown ups are kids. There's a parental advisory at the beginning of the episode, and when we first started watching, I was struck by that, like, oh, there's a parental advisory, like, you know, make sure you watch this with a parent.

And as I continued to watch the episode, it felt more like there shouldn't be a parental advisory to protect the kids, Like why why are we placing all this blame on the kids. It's not the bullying, it's not it's not these things that we blamed it on in

two thousand six, whenever this aired. We know that the factors that lead up to this are different now because we have the data, we have the research, we have decades of information there'sould have been a parental like mandatory viewing, like hey, kids, go get your parents, Go get the person in your household the votes, Go get the person in your household that's supposed to be watching what you

do online. You know, Like how I read the discretion. Actually, when I saw a parental discretion advised, I thought that maybe I read it the wrong way. But my I was like, oh, this means that you should be having a conversation with your kids about this. That's what they're trying to say. Go go pull the grown up into the room, because I don't I don't know. Yeah, it's true, because parents need. Look, I think it's hard for any of us to admit some of the more nefarious things

in the world. It's very hard to reconcile with the fact that there are you know, pro domestic violence and white supremacist terrorists, organizations that are grooming boys online. That's really hard. Like it's much easier to say, if I teach my kid to be nice, maybe this will be different. It's it's hard to look at something so large and and societal. And interestingly, what I thought the writers did very beautifully was they really made you feel for for

Jimmy and calling. You did that as an actor. You made us feel for this person who said all my days have been bad, and you realize Rachel's right when she says it's just seven d days, and Keith is right when he says it gets better when you leave here. Like none of the none of those people ever fit in, and they will come magic because of it. It's all true, and it's true that people need to feel looked out for, and and something I'll never forget that really helped me

see that all of these things can be true. At the same time, after the the Parkland shooting at Marjory Stone and Doug, this one of the young women, Emma who's become, you know, a huge leader in the in the movement of kids against violence like this said, don't tell me as a young girl it was my responsibility to be nicer to my abuser. And I was like, oh,

say it again, young lady, And she's not wrong. You know you shouldn't put vulnerable people in harm's way, um and say, yeah, I know that person is violent and scary, but just be even nicer to them. And it's important, you know, Joy, you said something a couple of weeks

ago about how you always encourage your daughter. She sees someone who's alone and like, look scared to go say hi to them during lunch, and that is so important and and also knowing, like something else I talked to her about is my mother always taught me as if somebody is bullying you, it's because that's happening to them at home. And so it's not that you have to

turn around and in kind you don't retaliate. You don't necessarily have to have lunch at them, like not everyone's going to be the over yeah, right, but but but you could if you if you felt called to do so. But um, so it is. It's exactly what you're saying, Sophia. It's so beautifully said that so many things can be true at the same time, and it's so calm, And that's why I feel like these are the conversations we need kids to be having with their parents. And he says, kids,

you want kids to feel safe enough. This is what I've actually just learned as a human being. People can't help you until you vocalize and ask, oh my god, say that again. You really, you really you think it in your head and you feel like somehow, but you've that the world knows what you need as a person, you know, in love and in life and in work and whatever. But until you vocalize it and really say it like, no one can help you. And so I hope it's for kids to be like, I need to

speak up. This is how I'm feeling good or bad, and open dialogue. But also I have to say to this relates back to this show and what you ladies went through. How many other and I don't want to you know, how many other powerful it's not just the creator. How many other people were there and hurt things and saw things and just yeah, yeah, you know you look at Trump as well. How many other white men in power could have done something? Yeah, I want to give

you all the snaps. Well, enablers feel sometimes more dangerous than the perpetrator because there's more of them, and enablers normalize things and they gaslight you and make you feel like, wait a second, I'm hurting? Am I the problem? It's Colin. Losing Jimmy in this episode, UM was difficult for me because it meant that we lost you, you know. There until until Jimmy dies, there was always this hope, like Oh yeah, Colin's going to come back and be full

time again. You know, like it wasn't always wanted to be on the show. I never wanted to leave. I know, you didn't know it, just know that the behind the scenes politics was bad. And so to lose you permanently after just losing Cheryl Lee permanently like season three is

just like evil losing you guys. But no, but let's talk about what the fallout from this episode was, because I remember being very nervous that this was going to air for probably very different reasons than you remember that, you know, like, how did the world react to you

in this episode? Um? You know what's funny my sister when she she came down for like one of the final days, and she was like, a lot of people are going to see this, and I, for some dumb reason, I guess I was just trying to learn the lines in time. I wasn't even thinking about after. I was just trying to get to that finish line of like being the show up and do my job. And then so my sister, Emery Holt had said, you know, this is going to be a lot of people are gonna

see this, and it's it's gonna be crazy. And um, all the responses have been amazing. I mean I was getting famil for a while from all over the world. People were telling me stories of times they almost committed suicide. I must see them stop. Um, times they felt lonely and they've done all this inner work and like learning. You know. Um, it had an impact and I know that for sure, and so I know it sounds cliche, but the whole thing of if one person is affected,

and but it is true. And so it's been pretty amazing. There was one thing that was hilarious I'll never forget. I was like at the coffee being a te leaf in l A a couple of months after I guess it aired, and I walk up and this girl was like, you on on trel you were so funny. But I had forgotten that. I guess there was funny stuff in the beginning. Yeah, that's what she was referencing. And and then everyone's like, you killed Peyton, and I'm like, I just shot her in the leg. I didn't kill it.

I don't know. It was interesting. Yeah, I mean it's still even at forty two, it's like people remember it, people talk about it. Yeah, It's definitely the top five most iconic episodes of our show. I would say in the top two or three. You know, it is such a game changer. Um, what were you going to say, Joy, Well, I was going to say that what you were talking

about about its having a long lasting impact. And it made me think of another reason why it is great for kids to watch something like this and hear all those speeches about you know, you're supposed to get past it, it does get better, and all of those things. Is that one element of it is that that that really struck me when I was watching is I noticed how many times Jimmy was talking about me, me, me, This is what happens to me, This is how I feel,

this is what I go through. And you know we're you know, Hillary, you and I are colony of kids. I don't know. I can't even keep a plant, even a suckul. I know what I'm getting you for your new house plans? All right? Well, how you know you and I are raising kids, and kids are little narcissists, and that's kind of how they're born into the world.

And then as we as they grow, we teach them how to have empathy and how to grow out of that, and hopefully by the time you're in high school, you're at the tail end of it and you're really learning how to see the world through the lens of how can I serve? How can I be of service? Um, And it's not so much just about me and how everything's impacting me, but it is high drama, and that of course, that's how we all are feeling when you know, once you hit high school, the drama is high and

it's just so much self focus. And UM, I don't I don't know. As I was as we were watching the episode, I had never seen it that through that lens before, but it really started hitting me that, UM, I hope that part of the long lasting effects of this word that kids were able to watch that and see it's not so much just about how I see things that, as you're saying, Sophia, all these things can

be true. At the same time, it is complicated. There are multiple people people's experiences that we all, you know, sift through and live through, and UM, I just hope that And I don't know, maybe if you heard some of that as you as people talk to you about seeing things through from a new perspective. UM, and it's not making sense. It's a little bit of words that

makes total sense. But Colin, Colin, you wouldn't worked in a school like you worked in a school, and so I would love to know your perspective of like, you know, we went to school in the nineties, different planet, right as these kinds of stories get told, because we weren't the only show doing this. They did this on like any other show that was about high school. There's been a version of this, Um, do you feel like talking about it has been helpful? Are the kids articulating things differently?

Like what? And did any of them recognize you as Jimmy Edwards walking their halls? Well, luckily I wasn't with the middle school in high school. It was still elementary level at the preliminary school campus. But I mean that still happen. But it still happens, Like there were so many issues with kids being mean to you know, you would see it. Is that what you're asking? Yeah, I mean, I know, you know. The campaign has been like stop bullying,

stop bullying, stop bullying, stop bullying. And guess what, we've all had those talks with our kids and either the bullies still the bullying is still happening, or even if it's stopped, the shootings are still happening. You know, I don't know that it's the bullying the anger. The anger has to be coming from somewhere. But I have to say too, as as on the teacher's side or the admin side, Yeah, it's happening with the adults to really like oh yeah, and that's just like private school politics,

I think, or school politics. But it's like the adults still do it within teachers and grades, and like, you know, they're still I hate to say it, but like there's the kids are probably subconsciously seeing that too. It's like the adults still haven't figured it out. And you know, it's also interesting, you know, to the point of why

this stuff happens. We're talking about how now we've got the research, We've got decades of research, studies, data, information, not just from our own country but from around the world, and that's what explains why we are the only one

of our pure nations where this happens. And I was just reading this article yesterday, um really fascinating research piece in the Times talking about how it's the same sort of targeted um grooming of boys by these sort of alt right groups that create this sort of misogynistic violence that mirrors between school violence and domestic violence, and it's a similar kind of hyper focused, targeted group that is

promoting disinformation and polarization in our society. And they're explaining how we're more polarized now than we've been in nearly a hundred years. It's like just pre World War two level of animosity um towards the quote two main groups.

And the thing that really struck me is that they're saying that the difference between the hyper polarization we're experiencing now and what we were experiencing in the nineteen thirties is that the hyper polarization exists in children as young as eleven, where it used to not happen until people were in their post collegiate years, at least politically. And that gave me because people used to not talk about politics over the dinner table. That was it's actually it's

actually not even about the conversation. They talk about how we used to have a sense that regardless of you know, quote unquote which side one, that the institutions were taking care of the country. And you might have a preference for a side, but you believed in in the not complete but sort of partial neutrality of the institution, and now we don't believe anybody's neutral, and now we don't believe anybody's on our side except the people who we

think are on the same side. And it and it was, it's a long article, but it really made me think about how these groups that have seen its grotesque, grotesque to call it success, but they've seen success and in the way they've been able to cultivate this super violent boy culture and they're doing it in every other sense of culture now and they're aided by the Internet. And I'm just like, we have a lot of work to do, Yeah, to undo that happened with the vaccination stuff. With yoga,

it reached all the different demographics. Yes, wait, Colin, are you hanging into yoga? Crown? Are you yoga? Mo? No? But I used to do hot yoga and I loved it. And so it's interesting when you say that, like even among teachers you see it. This this thing really got my brain going yesterday and I just think, yeah, man, I wonder, I wonder what ways in whatever groups were in we can gather to undo it, because you know, what do you do what do you guys do in

your teacher's lounge? What do what do we do here on this show? What do? What do we do in each of these little spheres were in. It requires vulnerability, and that's the hardest thing in the world to do. You know, we know how hard it is to do that, just in a if you're married or into your relationship, just to be like, Okay, I need to be vulnerable and ask for something or say something, or say I don't understand or I'm mad at you or whatever, like

I'll say the things. It's so effing difficult. I mean, how do we expect kids to do it? You know, That's what I'm saying. How do the teachers and the teacher's lounge can't do it? But that's what I thought this episode did so well and what you brought. I mean, Colin, you gave everyone permission to go somewhere. Every single person in this episode got vulnerable. Yeah, and uh it was

it was beautiful. You were you were beautiful. There's a reason, you know, we looked back because we thought, God, we all remember how we felt at the time. What did people have to say about this? And there's a reason that people multiple Times said this is a landmark episode of this series, and truly, I do not mean this hyperbolically. Truly, Colin, I think you you lead this episode. You were the tip of the spear. You set an intention and you brought a presence and everybody went, a wee get to

go there. We're going with him. And you shouldn't want, Colin, You shouldn't want. And I just wish we had been able to keep you, even after I lived with half the a D staff and I remember them coming home for work and being like, why are we losing that one? We have to work with so many assholes. Why are we leasing He's a treasure? Colin. I'm so glad you're working in film again. Um, do you have to go to the airport. You're leaving to the airport, breaks, I'm

leaving studio. I'm going to Spain for a couple You deserve this. I just got back from Spain. Where are you going? Nice? We're going up Madrid and then Valencia and then oh my god, in a long time coming in so we're gonna have some wine and um, just hang out. Tell us what you're doing right now? Yeah? Where are you working now? Because I'm so happy that you're not in school anymore. It's actually because of you, Hillary, No, it's not because of me. Yes, it is when you

turned me onto this organization. It's a nonprofit. It's called Stockade Works. We're based in the Hudson Valley. UM. It was filmed by actress and filmmaker Mary Stuart Masterson Boss. We train, we mentor, and we were for Hudson Valley residents, UM for below the line crew positions in TV and film.

UM when our focus is access and inclusion. Obviously, and unfortunately, so many people in the industry behind the camera and in front of the camera look like white ciss males like myself, and it can be like very much a boys club and hard to get in. And so we fight to have access and inclusion for more women, BIPOC veterans, anyone and everyone that feels like they've been bart access to the to the industry. And so we trained, then

we mentor, and we refer. So bring your projects to the Hudson Valley and we can hire local crew and not looks the same. And UM, I love what I do, so honestly, anybody at home, if you could learn how to work in the film industry from Colin, do it like. You are a wonderful teacher, You're a wonderful advocate, and you're just so fun, which is why I hate that we had to have you on for this really sad episode. Colin, we should be dishy about our drag creen adventures right now.

I know, and I do have to say. You brought me on for the project a couple of years ago and I hadn't acted in so long, and I was like, Oh, I'm like finally getting to play like an openly gay character and remind me to never go full bird Cage if you what are you talking about? Colin? The whole time we're filming a movie together, he was am I being too gay, And I'm like, what are you talking about? Coming You're a gaming yet exists in my top five films of all times. So I to say you should

go more, bird Cage. We need to do more. We need to do more. We need to have the fan base right in, like a totally different narrative for us to do with you that does not involve tragedy, that is just pure pleasure seeking. That's what we need. Let's go make a movie in Spain or the Hudson Valley. Let's do it. I'm down. It was so good to see all. Thanks for having me, love you, love you, send us lots of pictures. I will absolutely And one of my best friends who is an actor and his

wife live in Madrid. So Hill, will you put column I on a text I want to connect. I'll get you a little tip list. Oh I love it, I love it. I'm doing it right now. I'm so glad you came. Yes, Yes, thank you all so much. Maybe I love you so much. Oh my goodness, Angel, he's amazing. I love him perfect. He's just such a gorgeous So he's so ah patient I could just remember him being

such a patient actor to work with, making space for everyone. Oh, Hillary thinks it's a good Hillary just looked us all up on text um and he's so smart and insightful. Uh just yeah, you're right. If you have a chance to work with him, take it. Yeah. And new capacity well, also, he came up as a child actor. You know, both Colin and Lee were child actors, and rather than be rivals, they were advocates for one another. You know, they said, such a good example. They could have been bitches to

one another. Because I'm sure they like took jobs from one another. You know, I bet they tested for all the same stuff and instead they were collaborative and really supportive. And Lee really like mourned the loss of Calling on our show because he lost his soundboard, you know, the

person that he got to do fun banter with. So I don't know, like we said at the beginning of Colin being here, the meta of it all, Colin being dismissed, Jimmy being dismissed, and then getting them back just for a moment felt like a cheat and not to be snippy, but occasionally we are to get him back for a moment where he mopped there yes with everyone and was like, oh, you're gonna you're gonna lose this sogeous, gorgeous. I just hope that the folks were snippy about when a big boy. Yeah.

But by the way, for anybody out there that's casting a movie, put Colin in it, because one, he makes everything better. But to um, he's also such a pro and makes everything behind the camera so fun, Like, let's all work with fun. I like fun. H that's all I want more fun, fun, damn it. Um, it looks like we have a listener question, but I can't see it. I've got it weird set up here. Christina asks during the school shooting episode, where did you draw your emotions from?

Did you do research or watch any news coverage from previous school shootings. That was such a heavy episode, and I went through so many emotions watching it. I'm sure it was very emotional filming it, trying to remember what I did. I think we all probably read some articles and watched some documentaries and things, but I mean, ultimately, it's just your worst nightmare. I mean, well, and we've

been living through it. That's the thing, you know, It's a We spoke at the top of this episode about what it was like when Columbine happened, and you know, for me personally, I don't know if it was an hour or five hours before I knew that it wasn't my best childhood friends, high school, but it felt like,

I mean, everyone at my school was hysterical. And I imagine for each of you, you know, it's it's it's a it's a moment where you were very sense of safety in the world around you gets broken, and for that to happen here in in our home country, over and over and over again, and for it not to be the highest national priority to change it is something

that changes you. And and I know for me and you know, just get given the conversation the three of us have had, I feel like I can say for all of us, that's a that's an emotional presence that doesn't go away. Yeah. I mean I remember going to school after Columbine and it did shift. It shifted the way everyone looked at each other in school. We were all especially the kids that did show up because at the time, you know, we were thinking, oh, it's the

goth kids, it's the trench coat, you know. And so the kids that did show up grengey and wearing clothes that were like different from everybody we were, it pushed them out further. Remember people, we all just there was this sense of yeah, it changes your the way that you look at your safety in the world, but even just among your peers, where you feel like it's a it's a safe place. We're all, yeah, we're all going to get past it. It's all okay, right, right, wait, right,

maybe it's not. And to have a distrust like that seeping through your hallways every day, especially for people who already feel that kind of distrust at home and then they go to school and then they're dealing with it there. It's it's just impossible. It's just so hard. My high school experience was that I was fringe with the trench Coat Mafia. They were my people. We would go to poetry slams together, we did theater together, like those are

my friends. And the ringleader of that group was my friend Scott Kirkpatrick, who, if you've ever like seen my posts on Memorial Day or Veteran's Day, he ended up joining the military because as he really believed in the freedom of speech and wanted everybody to have that, and um,

he ended up dying in Iraq. So when we filmed this episode, he was still alive, and he was the person I was thinking about because, like to your point, Joy, those kids were pushed further out when now we know all these felt that, now we know all these years later that it was bullshit, And I knew it was bullshit in when it happened, when those groups were targeted and blamed UM at our school, they had like a trench Coke band that went into effect and they would

like you couldn't wear Jenko pants for like a while because you could hide something and then it was stupid. It was stupid, and it targeted everyone who wasn't a jock. And you know, now we know um otherwise, But when we filmed this episode, I remember still feeling a lot of anger that these groups were by being targeted because we did kind of so we perpetuate in this episode,

you know that it's the picked on kid. And I guess I was just really struggling with that and so, UM, I listened on my iPod on repeat the song from Lama is Empty Chairs at Empty Tables, and I remember that just like feeling the loss of not just the kids who had been shot, not just the kids who perpetuated these things, but also the loss of like the kids who know one trusts anymore and who are being

like side eyed and ostracized. Um. We had a member of our crew who had been shot, and he came and sat with me and kind of talked me through the wave that you feel not just because you're in physical pain, um, but because you don't know what's going to happen next, you know, and you know that you're so vulnerable, you know. I was like, is it real that, like Peyton hasn't lost that much blood? Is it real that, um,

she would be fading in and out already. You know, there were technical questions I had that I didn't want to screw up because I knew that there were kids who actually lived this experience and you don't want to get up m And he was. He was really wonderful. Um. And we found out after we filmed all this stuff in the library, and I didn't even want it in the library because that still felt so Columbiny, like the library stuff just it was a reference I felt like

was too much. But um, after we filmed, we found out one of the extras that we had on set had been a student Columbine when that happened, and she had no idea what our episode was about until she came to work that day. My god. Yeah, it was just one of those like freak things that happens in the world where you're like, what, how I mean, did she go home or did she still? She stayed and she talked with our a D staff and she was

very forthcoming. She was amazing and I wish, I mean, I wish I knew who she was or like I had stayed in touch if if she's listening, like, please reach out to us, because we were all very very very unsteady about this guy's I cannot emphasize enough that I did not want to do this episode. Um, and she made us feel like it was important work. So for that angel out there, wherever she is, you know, you put a lot of fears to rest your incredibly

helpful So thanks, thanks for that. Mhm beautiful, she was good. Well, I think how old is most of our listening audience? Are we all grown up? So are we all parents and adults in some fashion? I'm pretty sure that's do Um. You know, the the thing about our show is that we do a lot of goofy stuff, but it also is a platform to talk with your family members about this kind of stuff. So, um, even if you think your kid is not exposed to this kind of stuff,

I'm here to tell you that they are. My own son at eleven twelve years old, uh, stumbled upon videos that I found on his iPad. He was like, Mom, watched these, Um, watch these funny videos with me, and they were compilations of like animal videos and epic fails. You know, they get labeled under epic fails, which is something that as a parent, you're like, okay, funny, It's like, yes, exactly, it's skateboard videos. It's like a dog falling off of something.

You know, they're all harmless. And as I watch these videos, these compilations with my son, I started to see some very uh alarming things mixed in, like Alex Jones and certain yes. And this is why I don't let her watch YouTube because I know there's it's like you just never quite know what we get there, splice and stuff in they're going after the kids. It's spliced in so

split second and so quickly. But what it does is it establishes these certain personalities, these radical personalities in our country, and it sets a tone with a ten year old, eleven year old, twelve year old, Oh that's a funny guy from that funny video that I watched. That was funny.

And then the next thing is they're seeing a video that's a little bit longer and a little bit longer, and it establishes a pattern of these voices are funny and by the time that boy is sixteen or seventeen years old, unless he has a parent or an authority figure that comes in and it's like this is not funny. And I'm going to lovingly explained to you why they're radicalized. So, um, yeah, you gotta show up in your kids. It's really hard

into You've got to pay attention. I got to pay attention. Well, and to your point, you've got to look for where it's buried. Yeah, it's it's totally buried. Much like when a woman finds herself in an abusive relationship, people go, well, how'd you end up with that guy? Or why did you stay? Because it doesn't start there. It doesn't start

with the snowball being the size of a boulder. It starts with the snowball being the size of a p And that's how they're getting into our in front of our kids and these things snowball and you know, just last week, I'm not even gonna say his name because I don't want to give him any promo, but this horrible, violent, misogynistic um she's like an m M A fighter or something. Uh,

finally got banned from Twitter and Instagram. And this is a guy who had amassed me millions of followers, mostly teenage boys, teaching them to disrespect women, beat women, rape women, and boys were like no, he's the coolest. He's just being unny. Man's funny. He got in in these little videos, and to Hillary's point, by the end, millions of kids were watching him talk for minutes and minutes and minutes, and it was horrific. I mean horrific. I couldn't get

to the end of some of these videos. And I'm an adult, but I want to know what we're up. This is and this is why it's so important to show up and pay attention to what your kids are watching and what they're h and also to teach them to self govern so that they have the ability to to spot some of this stuff and go, oh, I don't want that to be a part of my my world.

I don't know. I don't know that. I know that I don't fully understand it all, but I know that I trust my parents, or my guardian or the person that is mentoring and looking out for me when they say this is not good for you. I'm not going to try and sneak it. I'm not going to try and continent you have. That's a character development thing. You have to start teaching your kids young, and as they grow they will it works. I've done it with my own kid. I've seen other people do it with their kids.

You can teach your children to self govern and that's one of the most important things because voices like this are probably not going away anytime. So everyone has a right to their own thought and their own space. And that's why it's so important to be vigilant as a parent, so that you can monitor and teach them to monitor themselves. It was so much easier growing up in the eighties. Honestly, if I could go back and be an eighties mom, you better I can believe I would sign up for that.

Just books and bangs. Let's go books and banks. Can we put that on a T shirt? Telling me about it? Well, honestly, like, hats off to all of our guest stars in this episode because aliceon Cagliotti was unmade easing Um Amber was amazing. Who's the guy that played Marcus? Yeah? Who was that awesome? And why didn't we get more of him? Yeah? He was a great actor and should have played Felix, is

my take? Yeah he was great. Yeah, I would have supported that, that would have been um But or is this the pattern of us naming characters after after people's real names? On our show. It's like they just didn't want to have to deal with it. They didn't want to talk about it. It was like, honestly, with the cast this big, you can't expect the directors and the a D staff and all the producers to remember people's

real names and character names. Don't be ridiculous. The Hall of Fame with Antoine and Bevin and so many more of our friends. Yeah, but also before we leave, we have to address the Keith of it all, which I know that we're going to talk more about in the next episode. UM, let's put a disclaimer up for suicide on this episode, um, because that's ultimately what it is. I don't I don't know if this is a school shooting episode, but I know for a fact it's a

suicide episode. UM. And that is accurate. Pain is uh. Pain is very real when you're in the depths of it and you don't see a way out. And so let's make sure we post resources. Um. You know, the loss here is kind of unbelievable, between losing Colins slash Jimmy and Keith slash Craig. So yeah, I don't know, guys,

what episode what I have you one? I love you guys, And I'm glad that we walked through this together, and um, I'm grateful that our audience is sticking with us through this and hopefully everybody was able to take something positive away from it. Yeah, and I do hope, you know, as we move forward, that we'll be able to dig a little bit deeper into some of these issues, you know, into what is happening online, into how we can activate our families and communities, um, to push back against this

beheamoth of violence that we're up against. How we can advocate better for each other, for our friends that are in pain, for people who might be, you know, struggling with depression or suicidal ideation. You know, we said it earlier that it's it's so important to be vulnerable and and you know, call and said that beautiful thing that people can't help you until you vocalize and ask. And one of the things that's inspired me the most about our One Trey Heal family is that people come here

to be vulnerable with each other. People share their stories, and not just with us, our fans share them with each other. They've built friendship across the world that are real And I hope we can continue to be a place where we can vocalize and ask and witness each other. Sophia, there's an organization you just sent me a T shirt for UM, I've got ninety nine problems. Uh, can you can you tell everybody what that is? Um? Yeah, So guys,

something really amazing has finally happened this year. UM. There's a lot going on in the world and having one resource line to call doesn't make sense. If you are struggling with a mental health crisis, you don't necessarily need to call nine one one to talk to a police officer.

You need a mental health professional. And so this year here in the US, we have finally, with the incredible support of you know, many activists who have championed this cause, our country has launched eight and it is the emergency Mental health helpline. So great. You know, if God forbid, you witness a car accident, you call nine one one to get the cops and the firefighters. If you or someone you know is having a mental health crisis, you down nine eight and you will be routed to a

mental health professional team and response option. And so hopefully nine eight can really help a lot of people, UM get the help that they need just as quickly as you know you would if you called nine on one because there was a fire or something. So that's fantastic. Gus asked to wear that shirt to school. He did. Yeah, he was like, can I read this school so people so people know? And I love him. I also I

love you know. I had shared about it, and the folks who have helped to run the outreach said, can we send you some stuff? And I was like, oh my god, I want to send care packages to all my friends. So it's been fun to send you all and a couple of other people some mailers. And they also made these great stickers that I've just been sticking on like telephone polls and mailboxes, and I'm like, god, I feel like a high school kid again. Are you a handle? I mean kind of like putting up no

X shakers like Peyton. I'm out there being like, call for your mental health. Here's where you go. See me at the grocery store doing the same thing. Um. I love you guys. Let's spin a wheel today. We need to end on an up note. I feel like we all a little bit of it. I'd like some I'd like some happiness with the two of you. Well, we got to take care of each other. And I hope our you know, our listeners are doing the same thing.

Let yourself, let yourself take breaks from the darkness. It's important. What do we got this week? We've got most likely to guys. I just went to the store and picked up well, first of all, I died my dough tell them what it is. But oh shoot, this is how excited Joy is. She's like, okay, so so on background, it's most likely to die their hair a crazy color and goin all spent and then okay, get right. I just went to the drug store and I picked up a bottle of purple hair dye. I think I should

do it. I mean to be fair. I just toned my gray hair and it ended up a little purple. So it was an intentional did it. It's fun. It's a fine line though, like there's a purple where it's like, oh, this is kind of just I don't know, it's like bad nineties, it's going to be good. And then there's like sexy pastel like unicorn purple, and I don't I'm gonna go for that. So we'll see my girl friends. And I got these cool hair kits to like, put this pink wash in our hair early pandemic, A girlfriend,

Early pandemic. We were all locked up through like this will be so fun. Let's get on the wall dyer hair together, and I realized I was like, oh, but my hair is too dark to put a wash in. So I just looked like Brooke Davis in Season three, just like real, like in the sunlight, my hair was an unnatural shade of red, and I was like, damn it. So I need the two of you to do the pastel washes so I can live vicariously well. Joy wins it in real life? Which character do we think is

our dye your hair? Crazy colors did we have? I don't think anyone wouldn't Peyton because we don't need to talk about Peyton hair. Hair is traumatic. I was gonna say Lucas because the only person who changed their hair more than I did was Chad. It was only a matter of time before he was like, we're doing it. We're gonna die at Ravens blue. Um. That would have been hot for the boys for like one of the National Championship episodes or something. They should have had them

all die their hair blue. That would have been so cool, so fine. Next convention, we'll just tell oh perfect, keep the dream alive. Thanks guys, thanks for sticking through this with us. We're so grateful that you came, and we hope to see you again next week. Yeah. Thanks guys. The next episode we'll see you for if The Aftermath Season three, episode seventeen, Who will survive and what will be left of them