Coming into Our Power • EP210

Episode ten is don't take me for granted? And which is you know, kind of a surprisingly difficult concept to explain to children. I was saying that the other day to Maria, like something about being taken for granted, and she was like, what does that mean? Like it's like when someone doesn't appreciate you, but they It's like, I don't know, it's kind of hard to explain. I don't know why I'm talking about this their November because this is our therapy. Joy, this is what we do with

each other. We're gonna work it out. Oh my lord, concerns Nathan tells Karen, who lights up on Lucas about taking the heart test. Wow, we loved that. Meanwhile, Keith accepts Dan's offer to continue working at the dealership as vice president, and Peyton must confess must confront rumors at school that she is a lesbian, which affects her friendship with Anna, while the gap between Nathan and Haley continues to grow heavy lots of stuff in this one. Each

one of us had a really kind of like big episode. Um, you know the stuff that Sophia had to do with all the Felix stuff, and that I was very uncomfortable by the end of the episode because that feeling of being a young woman having to say yes to something that you don't really want to say yes too because you know the other person it really needs to hear it.

That the feeling of being pleasing, Oh, it was so triggering, and you handled it so well and enjoy You had your huge episode with Chris, and then my storyline is probably one of the biggest in the series for me. You know, this is something that we keep coming back to when we meet fans, and so this is an iconic moment for Peyton. I was, so should we just start with that? Do you want to start talking about? But now let's start with Brooke, because we start with

the broken windshield in the episode. Yeah, that's right, Okay, okay, let's do in proper order. Yes, okay, Well the first the first thing I have on my many pages of notes is high school fashion. Oh, yes, yes, we need to talk. Yes, okay, there's plenty of fashion in here. Um, Sophie and I were talking before we started taping. Gusts just started back at school, right because he's now vaccinated and he's back at school, and his middle school is

attached to the high school. And so for the last week I've been doing pickup and oh my god, these children were sweatpants every day, sweatshirts, sweatpants every days with their cool school outfits. And we're pissed guys because we had to wear tight pants and low rise jeans and culture tops girl, you know, and high heels plaid Abercrombie skirts I wore. I mean, oh yeah, you had to

get ready, you had to get right now. It's like, just throw your hair in a low tight bun and throw some hoop earrings on and go to school like nobody's you know. I love it now. I don't want anyone to feel objectified. But here's here's my take on it. You get this one little teeny tiny chunk of time in your youth to experiment. And so you need to have a goth year, you need to have a hip hop year, you need to have a tomboy year, like you need to go through the face Lamb year. Yeah,

you just have to try things out. And um and frankly, all the mothers in the pickup line are really counting on you to like dress up and not wear I'm just it's been totally stressing me out. So for anybody out there listening, like, get up at six thirty and put your clothes on. Yeah, we like that, just like because didn't always did it when she when I came out in the morning and saw that saw that broken windshield.

It also, you know, I get the ideas of brick got thrown through it, but it looks like somebody took a golf club to that thing multiple times. It was an aggressive break. I was racked, it was recked. Yeah, there's a lot for brook in this episode, and um, a big reveal that that mouth was the one at the end who actually broke through winshield Um. That didn't totally track for me. I feel like he maybe would have broken Felix's car windshield. It felt like a little

misplaced that it was Brooks. Um, I don't know, what did you guys think about that? You know what I liked about it. I liked how vulnerable he got with Lucas walking by the river court because he says it was just another party where I was the only one who ended up without someone. And and what I I guess the reason I'm glad it was Brooks Winshield and not Felix's is it was an honest kind of poking against the way that a lot of of men blame

women for not being attracted to them. Yeah, and and we saw Mouth own it, feel bad about it, admit to doing this really inappropriate thing because none of this is Brooks fault in the first place, and try to make it right. And that I thought was really healthy modeling for kids. I appreciate that also. And Brooke doesn't want to be with Felix either, Mouth like, man, you guys should just talk about this. Yeah. Yeah, And when Lucas tells him that, and he's like, but I didn't know.

You see just that this boy doesn't know where to put his feelings, so he literally throws them towards the person who's hurting his feeling? Girl, did you just make

that a metaphor? Did I? I went to callege? But then Brooke follows it up with this like lovely interaction with Lucas, which we should definitely dig into, because, yeah, I guess for me, hiding my real feelings has been in a journey, you know, since I was in middle school and not wanting to admit to things, and to watch you navigate that in a really kind of lovely way. You're trying so hard to be fun and like not admit that there's still an attraction, but it feels really

good to be around this person. Yeah, and it ties really well in the episode. The writers did a good job because in the sort of this episode has a great opening sequence. The teaser is really good with the with the car, with what everybody's doing with with then you know Nathan waking up on Lucas's floor, Hayes panic, doesn't know where he is. Turns out Lucas has been hiding Nate for the night, and then Brooke comes in being like, oh, you're related double double A O F twos.

Here you know, they're teasing each other and that's her default, is the joke, and then she kind of drops it and has to say, you know, I just thought maybe we could walk to school together, and and they start reconnect thing and she tells him that she misses talking to him, and and it is it's really tender, and she's trying to hide it, but there's a sweetness to

that that that was nice to play. I've always found that to be the hardest part of any breakup is the friendship that you build um in it, in the intimacy of being in a relationship with someone that whenever the relationship ends, it's like, romantically we just aren't. This

does not work. But I always miss the friendship and the I mean, if I don't miss the friendship, then I definitely know it was the right But there have been there have been a couple of breakups in my life where I was like, we can't be together, but damn I really miss the just the friendship and the talking.

And I could totally relate to Brooken that, like can we still Just I miss just you know, spending time with you, and you're a great person and we get along and it's nice to have people outside of your typical bubble. You know, like if Brooke has been hanging out with the same cheerleaders and athletes and like the popular kids for the last ten years, you fall into a rhythm where it's like, what do we talk about? We talk about clothes, We talked about them all, we

talk about this. And so to have that person that comes in from the peripheral that talks to you about real stuff or just about your feelings or you can just be quiet with Like for all of Lucas's whatever, he does strike me as a person that you could sit in silence with and just like hold space. And and sure, it's a valuable energy where I get it. I get why Brooke is like you're different, and I just like whatever you've got going on here, Yeah, yeah,

it's a sweet, kind of tender experience. And and what strikes me for all three of us is everyone is trying to navigate a new relationship that they don't quite understand. Trying to navigate a new relationship ship with Lucas. Haley is trying to figure out what this thing is with Chris Keller. Is it about music? Is she attracted to

this person? It would make sense if she was, he'd be what maybe only the second boy she'd ever experienced that with, and and Peyton's trying to figure out not only this is does she have a real friendship with Anna or not, but Peyton's trying to navigate a relationship to her own mental health. Big. Oh, it's a big moment.

I mean that that moment at the end of the episode where you come to see me and you, you know, you talk about how everything is piling up and you don't want to need help but you feel so alone. I was like, I was choked up and and wishing that I was really happy to see that on screen and to think about it in two thousand four and just wishing we'd we'd been able to to navigate further

into that. But of course it's a drama, so there has to be the device of that's right when the boy walks out of the back room, I was like, honestly, say with us, you stay with the friends. Honestly, Like, if if this show was happening today, like Peyton would go to therapy, Peyton would like, you know, like work on things in a manner that we can talk about now. But in two thousand four, the answer to every problem was who you're kissing, you know what I mean, Like

it's always the solution is always a dude. I don't know. I actually don't know that it's that different nowadays, you think. I mean, I think I think there is in maybe in more um gentrified or like city environments, there's a little bit more of an openness to go to therapy or to talk about all my therapist this or that.

But I think the majority, at least of America, you know, in smaller towns, you know, they still have a way of of doing things that were obviously there's something that's so lovely and charming and and wholesome about all that. But I think there's also still maybe a stigma around therapy or you know, struggling with trying to do something that maybe seems progressive and then you don't want your friends to to make fun of you, or for seeing

a doctor about your emotions or mental health. Can can still be um something that is is looked down on. So I I do love I don't know where I'm going with this, but I guess I I don't know that it's so much different today than it would have been back then. Well, you know what's interesting is I think you're right in a lot of ways. Joy Like. I think that, yes, we're in a in a in a stage where we might be more open about it, but a lot of people are still scared to admit

that they're struggling. And I think that I think that that is okay. I think that it's important even when we get to talk about this stuff, to say what we wish the girls we played, the ways we wish they might have been supported. It's it begins to open it for all of us. And you know what's what's really interesting to me. I got to be part of this talk yesterday and um and the guy who came from the sort of clinical expert side of mental health was saying that so often it's being left alone in

your pain that causes trauma. You can, you can experience a traumatic event, but when you're then left alone, when you don't have anyone to tell your story to, when you don't get those words out of your body, that is what sinks the trauma into you. Because your process it's ride even a friend. I mean, if you think therapy, if you look at therapy and it's like, oh it's booge you to go see a therapy. You go to therapist.

You know my lucky You like, okay, fine, but I find a friend to find someone that you can get it out of your body. And that's why I love that scene between us so much, because Peyton reached out to her safe container, and you see both of these girls feeling alone, and because of the TV writer drama Felix coming out of the bathroom moment, Peyton leaves. But then you see Brooke while Felix is talking to her,

also feeling alone. And these kids are just trying to figure out where to either express their pain or how to medicate with it. And Brooke medicates with a boy, and Peyton is about to medicate in a very bad way. And and then, by the way, who shows up but a boy, but it's Jake Tilski and we love it. Yeah, that's a different love. I was thrilled at the moment. But wait, wait, we have to go back, We have to go back with order. I'm sorry. I'm sorry because

I'm very excited to talk about this Peyton storyline. But I do want to address one thing, which is the Felix Friends with benefits blowing up in everyone's face. My my topic for um for pondering, which you spend too much time on it. But but does friends with benefits ever really work? I feel like somebody always loses. And wait, have either of you like done Look? Have you done this? I'm too emotional. If I'm like with someone, I have

to be in love. I'm not. I can't, y'all. I'm reading my journal from high school because I'm working on my next book, and so I just pulled out like all my journals. No, I had a great time. Like it was awesome because because if you are up front in the beginning right, and you maintain that boundary like you, you absolutely like keep you can't ignore it, you can't say it once and then, but you're not combative about

it like Brooke is. Brooke is like, don't even look at me in the face, don't touch me, Like you just sit there and talks like Julia robertson Pretty Woman. Kiss. No. I mean there were kids that I had grown up with since kindergarten who we kissed like senior year in high school, and it was like we all knew we were going other places, but it was so fun and just like, oh my god, you turned into a hot dude. Like, congratulations,

I'm so proud of you. I think if there's if the friendship is real first, like if Brooken Felix had been actually friends first and built off of that and then like kissed each other. Sometimes fine, But to meet a brand new person and be like we're gonna be friends and we're gonna kiss and it's never gonna go further than that, that's bullshit. You have that the friendship has to be real first. But this is exactly what

we were talking about a couple of episodes ago. It's like sometimes, like you said, you might have grown up with someone Hillary and then at seven and you're like, oh my god, my friend from childhood turned into this hot guy. Like you know, you might you might in a stage of your development say and I know I said this in the last episode, but I'll repeat it. You might go, well, I know I love you, am

I maybe a little in love with you? And you could give it a try, and then you're either going to be together or you're gonna go, no, we're actually just friends. This was cute. You're you're super attractive, Like, let's go back to being buddies and go get a beer like that. If you are honest, Yes, I do get that, but I guess what I couldn't imagine is being in a situation like that that just goes on and on and on and on and on, like, yeah,

somebody falls in love. At some point, it starts to make you acutely aware of the fact that the other person is really only interested in you for one thing or even two things friendship and sex, but they don't want the actual intimacy of relationship, and you start to feel like like what what? What's is there something wrong with me? What's the one thing that holding you back? Exactly exactly, because everybody does want to be seen and loved for who they are, in all the good and

all the bad. I mean, that's not fundamentally what we're all looking for. So if you've got somebody the who will take you for all the good, but when the bad stuff shows up there, like listen, I really only wanted this for for convenience and comfort, then eventually you're just going to start fe know. I always loved the exact opposite, especially when we were in our early twenties, like the dudes that were there for all the and really loved when you were messy and they'd be like baby,

I'll kiss you. Um like when then, but then when you were up, they just disappeared or went on tour or like because they're intimidated. They were like, oh, I know how to fix this wounded bird. But when she's succeeding, we'll talk about fixing. It's lucas in this episode, like wandering around looking for problems to solve. I mean, you nailed it. Hillary, God, I was so proud of Peyton in that moment, being like, no, you're not my friend.

You don't just get to walk in here. She you really stood up and and Hillary, God, you played the scene so beautifully because you want a friend and you're about to open up. And then when he sees the drawing of Jake and asks you the question your anger at you're guessing because of my art you don't actually know anything about what's going on in my life. Oh

it was such a good moment. Yeah, And like Peyton didn't know that he had walked to school with Brooke that morning or brought her home the night before, but she knows there's enough damage there, like you know what, this is not real, this is phony. Like, yeah, everyone else on the quad saw me crying, why are you here? Yeah? Yeah, we talk about the epic moment. I will never recover from how much I love this storyline for you and

Danielle Alonso because she's great. But the poem that you read to her, the thing on you know, the little, the Little the mini record, Well, it's it's song lyrics that are based on UM, this poem that kind of was popularized in the nineteen fifties UM, and it's actually at the Holocaust Museum because the original words or first they came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out

because I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I was not a Jew. And then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me. And so those lyrics being popularized and put into music geared towards a younger generation where we could see ourselves in like the junkies and the prostitutes and the people who have been marginalized, and it's like, maybe you have

to speak up. I think our our creators knew that that was subject matter that was very important to me. Um is in the early two thousands, we didn't talk about bisexuality. We didn't talk about sexuality ever, because the assumption was if you're a girl, you're a straight girl

and you like boys and that's it. And I had done an interview with Angelina Jolie on TRL Like season one because I've flown back from while we were filming to go back and do it, and I asked her about this movie fox Fire that she did where she played either a bisexual or a lesbian teenager, and I told her it meant a lot to me. And I remember like people around me being like, are you outing yourself? Like what are you doing really? Because I talked about

kissing girls in high school. It wasn't oh yeah, and everybody was so everything had to be labeled and in a box. So it was like, if you're talking about that, then you must be making a statement. And I was putting my career in jeopardy by even hinting at it. And so our our bosses really did take a lot of stuff from our real life and apply them to the show because I think they thought it would help us tap into it, but I was Peyton in high school.

You know when Boys Don't Cry came out. Oh my god, I've been waiting for that movie for like a year, and I loved that movie. I just I loved the moment because it was something you know, as you share your experience, standing up for our community was really important to us, you know, as artists, as as people who the arts have often been a safe haven for queer people and in a place where we build real community of solidarity. And I remember when we got this script.

I remember the punk rock poem version of the first poem that is as you said famously at the Holocaust Museum, And I remember, God, even now, just talking about it, I have chills, and I have chills when I watched you read it in the episode. Um when you when you made her read it it, it did feel like someone was not just giving us a history lesson, but telling us how history was ours, telling us how we could change it by by giving us the punk rock anthem.

In the early aughts, it was like, you, guys, it's your fight now. It was our fight in this generation, and now this version this is this is your generation's fight. And I just, uh like it makes me want to cry like that you in this episode were able to speak for so many people and say I'm not going to be quiet. I'm not going to roll over and let someone be harmed, you know, whether it is you, or it is a friend, or it is a classmate. And it was such an important lesson and enjoy you

said it while we watched it. Watching Peyton use her art as protest was king sick. It was so sad. That's what inspired me. And I was like, yes, this is what art is for inspiring. Whether it's encouraging you, whether it's healing you, or whether it's motivating you, it is meant to inspire. And um, I loved seeing that that that defiance, the against the structure and the rules and against principal Turner against principles. I love that. I love that guy. But it's such a It's like I

I would love to have. I mean, how cool would it be to see a teacher who understands that because you're in a school, because school, school supposed to be a real education. This is not just about learning what two plus two is and what year the Declaration of Independence was signed, Like we're supposed to be learning how to think for ourselves, not what to think. So I love that Peyton set such a great example for that

and went when you walked in. When I saw you with your spray paint can, I was like, I know what she's doing and walk in the hallway with that shirt on, and I was like, this is what if I was a mom, If I was a mom, if I was a mom of a teenager, but this, if Maria was in this situation, this is what I would want her to do as a mom. To see a young girl taking charge of somebody trying to bully oppress her. You know, whether it was true or not, it doesn't matter.

It was not. It was not the point at all. It was a harmful slur. It was intended to be bullying and maligning, and she just took the power right back and stood up for herself and stood up for a bunch of other people. And I just was And then at the end when he was like lose the shirt or get suspended, She's like, yep, well here's been watched me. Let me tell you how much I would have supported my daughter in that one hundred thousand percent. I've been like, yeah, maybe come on home. No, problem,

but bring it. It was a trigger. You know, those rumors existed about me growing up. My best friend and I. Everyone had a different story and we were voting best friends senior year in superlatives and we held up signs that said not lovers with arrows pointing to each other and like the end of the year, and you know, it was like a thing that I had to be able to navigate and laugh off. And so I took

this episode very very seriously. I was very serious and really scared about this episode because I didn't know if I was being called out or if there was a kid at home who was going to hear Peyton say I'm not gay and get their feelings hurt that she was denying it like there was. It just felt like so much responsibility and I really really didn't want to

screw it up. And even like a month ago, I got an d M from a guy who was like, I came out because of this storyline, Like you guys gave me the tools to be able to handle coming out in a small town and those those kinds of things mean a lot to me. Um. I was really mad that Peyton was taking her shirt off, like when we talk about that. What was frustrating for you about that?

So look, we fought the whole first season to not take our clothes off hooking up with dudes, and our bosses understood that if it was tied to something I was passionate about politically, you know, like socially, chances are I would probably do it. And so you know, it's not like Peyton had it on a jacket that she could take off. It's not like Peyton had it on her backpack or like something. But she wouldn't have gotten suspended for taking the jacket off. I mean, it had

to be a statement. Taking the shirt off also felt like they were building towards a moment of a little bit of a rotism eroticism where it was like, oh, we're going to see Peyton and her bra, Like Hillary's never done anything in her bra before. This will be the thing that gets her inner bra. And so I went into the fitting with my this is how like much of a horder I am. I had my real like thin triangle top braw from tenth grade, like that was like my training bra, and it's not sexy, it's

not padded, it's not a push up raw. It was ratty. It was like, you know when like fabric gets all pilled and stuff. It was a gross ratty brawl. Nothing sexy about it. Oh that's nice, but it was just like a Walmart brawl from Sterling, Virginia that I'd had in the back of my drawer forever. And I also didn't want to look like, you know a lot of times when we have to get naked and you're like, oh, I'm gonna do sit ups or I'm you know, like

I'm gonna like prep for it. I also didn't want girls to see a body that was prepped for it, if that makes sense. And so I went out the night before with my boyfriend out back steakhouse and got a bloomin onion and got like a bit you know, like I just really I didn't want to feed into any of the I'm in a brawl of it all because that wasn't the point. I needed it to be unsexy. I needed it to be sad and vulnerable and you know, I'm lauchin as I walk away like it's just love you.

Hillary of it was really important and I didn't ever want anyone to make it perverted because it Yeah, I took it so seriously, if it had felt sexy, like if she'd been in an outfit, it wouldn't have had the same impact. It felt exactly that unprepared for surprising it was. It was a split second decision made in a moment. It's like, you know, as adult swee joke, like, oh, it's laundry day, I'm wearing my ugliest day, Like you want that kind of rawness, not like some chic Lacey brawle.

That was not the point. And you nailed all the stuff that we've been shopping for in the Lauderie store for the first two seasons were minutes. You nailed it because the simpleness of it allowed for the protests to be centered. Yeah, it wasn't a out your body. It wasn't about sexualizing you, And I don't think it came off that way. I mean, I don't know how you still feel looking back and watching it, if you still feel like it was a group of writers trying to

make you be naked. Um, because may have it may have even been intended to be, but I didn't. To me as as a viewer, it did not come across that way. How do you feel about it? I see what it means to other people, and there's value in that. For me. I get like, m yeah, I just didn't want to get up. Yeah, you did it. You did it so beautiful. It's fun now. Like I was, it was kind of jarring. The last convention we went, two kids showed up with spray painted shirts that said dig

on it and like, we know, that's like a bad word. Guys, you can't like, we don't say that, um and and so. I but but they were taking ownership of it, which I loved. Oh, I've loved it for them. Um, but I can't walk around with that shirt all. It's one of those things. The best case scenario, the bra situation was the best case scenario. I think. Just that's that's

what I read a lot of scripts. I'm sure we all have read scripts where you're just like, of course, and now the girl gets naked, or like of course, and now you're she's in her bra and why she and her brau in this scene? There's no reason for that, but there are I mean, are we are artists? So are you wholly an artist or not? And for me, as an artist, my entire body is uh to be used for art in the correct context. So um, and

that's fine. Look, some people I want to only be you know, want to reserve their bodies for just their private life and and they only you know, use a particular portion of them for for art. And that's totally fine. Not everybody's supposed to do the same thing. But as someone who feels like totally embodied as an artist, I totally relate to that as just you're your body is your body, it's part of your artistic expression. And it didn't come across to me as sexualized at all. It

felt like it was a very specific choice. Um, it was a shocking choice, but not um titillating or well, there was that fitting. The fight was always in the fitting, you know what I mean. Had we been on a different show that had this scene, it would have been art and it would have been safe. But because we had already been fighting for like a year and a half for these things, it was just like this just

a different for the same result. Because it's it's it's pushing on the bruise next to the cut, so you're kind of like, what is this? What is this? Even if it isn't meant to be that? When when you've when you've experienced the same thing with the people who treating you're their property. It gets triggering. But probably because of all those fights and all the all the fights you won and the times when you didn't end up that that's why this paid off so much, Because it

wasn't just like, oh, paints in her bra again. It's all those fights were leading up to this moment. You know, Hey, thanks dan Yella. Daniella really sold this because in a different actress's hands, this girl that's kind of flip flopping between Lucas and maybe Peyton or like, you know, like all this kind of like weirdness and ambiguity would have

been messy. But because she is so slow and methodical about the way she gives out information, and she's so kind of um vulnerable, you feel for this little animal. You're like, oh my god, Like, honey, what what happened to you that you can't that you're that you feel like you have to pretend um? And I love that Lucas is like giving her this speech where he's like he's like, hey man, this isn't gonna work out, and she's like, okay, He's like, I have feelings for someone,

and she's like me too. Yeah. Wait, so so then how does all this how do you feel for you? Because I know I mentioned it earlier, but it's such a beautiful performance. How did it all kind of compound to get to Peyton's last scene with with brook like to get into that room and to come and ask for help. But that and I'll say she doesn't want to ask for help. That was but that. Those are words that I wish I could use as a grown up.

I think when you are a person who the world has expectations for you, like, oh, you handle stress so well, having to admit at any point like oh hey, like no, I don't, um, it's hard. And so Brooks probably been applauded by her parents like oh, you're so responsible and mature and you can live by yourself. And Haley has been told by her parents like, honey, you can go get married. You've always been a good decision. And Peyton has been told by her dad like, no, you're good,

you can handle this. It's not hard to ask for help if you're a person who's always had a support network. It's hard to ask for help when you're on a pedestal and everyone expects you to continue to function at a high level. Um. She calls her dad, which is a big deal, and he doesn't pick up, and so she's reaching out for help in these places where every kid should be able to find it. Um. But for me, like the Brook and Peyton of it all, I don't know.

I just think, Um, I loved that scene so much because I think we were probably experiencing that in real life, like not having having a place to put things down, because especially at that age, who could we talked to

Our friends from home were still in college. They didn't know what our world looked, you know, like they couldn't understand what it's like to have a mortgage or to deal with like commissions with your manager and having to answer phone calls and tone meetings, and like there wasn't a language that you could share with your regular support network. So we were living that in real life while our characters were also living that. Just like where do I

put this down? Yeah? Yeah, I love how tender you were in your little twin bed, just like honey, come here, say it would have been such a fun night of Felix wasn't there. It would have been so great feeling. And you see, I just I don't know the parallel of those two Peyton feeling so alone and Brookes saying you always have me, and even on the quad saying this, all those girls are jealous. You look better than them. Like she's just coming out with she's the perfect best

friend for this. She's such a mama bear with her best friend and that. But in the end scene you realize that to Brook, nobody else exists in that moment. She's like, I'm here, We're doing it. Everything's gonna be okay. And then this guy walks out and she she to confront her own way of trying to feel better because she has nobody in her arm who's supporting her either. And she's not going to pile it on Peyton right

now because Peyton struggling and you just really responsibility. They just have no idea what to do with their pain. We need a safe word. It's like the gift of the Magi, you know, where each person is giving up the thing that is important to them to be there for the other person. Yeah, it's so easy for Brooke to be there for Peyton and for Payton to be

there for Anna. Like sometimes when you're in the depths of your own it makes it really easy for you to kind of pivot and focus on someone else's problem. It's helpful. Actually yeah, well until you're like, oh, but now I'm just like faking it with my friend. Oh yeah, because I've been pushing my own thing away for so long. So we need like a friend safe word where if like we all say the same word, we know that

we're all in the cauldron and we're all bubbling. Like everyone should have a friend safe word so that you don't even necessarily have to just gossip, but you know, like I've got a thing, You've got a thing. Cool, let's just like drink smoothies. Well, speaking of Mama Bear energy a little bit here, let's pivot to Karen, who I was just saying this was like the ultimate Irish family background of Moira coming out. Just loved it so

much because we've never seen Karen angry before. Well maybe at Dan once, but yeah, she tore it up and she went after his friends. Oh my gosh, don't mess with Karen, y'all. When the when the boys on the river cord are like, nah, we talked to your mom like scared. That was the best, but her yelling at him and and just reminding him that he is her child and he lives under her roof, and he is a teenager and she will make him get it. I

was like, she just keeps punching. It was phenomenal, so good. Well, enjoy to your point, like the payoff. She's always been sweet, she's always been gentle, she's always been understanding, and so for a year and a half for that to be her tone and then all of a sudden, like the hell, hath no fury? Like a mother lied to? That's it, a mother who has led to because and her son's life is at risk. There's no messing for basketball basket. Yeah,

it's so insane. No not okay, um the last little thing on the docket here is um my sweater and I'm kidding the last thing. Maybe this is an episode about us all kind of coming into our power in different ways, because you you know, we meet Haley wearing all sorts of dorky, and then as Haley is coming into her music, coming into her personhood and like making these like big decisions for herself, you also are coming in with like this is how I want to look,

This is how I want to resent my character. You bought that sweater. Yeah, I found that sweater. I bought it, bred it in. It's so cute. I love it. I have I have visceral memories, like I can feel it and smell it. I loved that sweater. I don't know, I think it was like Jake Rue or something. I mean it's probably, yeah, it was probably I was going

to wasn't extraordinary. We had a few great shops, but um, yeah, but I agree, And Haley really was trying to figure out how to come into her own in this episode. I mean, it's so it was so interesting to watch a young couple fight, um, knowing that there is a solution, but these are that's a big bite to take out of out of life. Um, I married you, I want to be with you forever. I want us to do everything in partnership, and yet I have this is part of me, Like I can't say no to this massive

part of me just because you're uncomfortable. And yet I want to honor your feelings. I want to respect where you're at. I want to make space for you and your own insecurities because you're human too, and that's a big thing. How do you deal with that as a couple. I mean, I know grown up couples that struggle with that big time, totally, big time. So learned that as a teen that's not easy, really hard. And something I love about watching the dynamic between the two of you.

You as Haley, You're trying to take ownership of your dreams and desires and say, it's not about that, this is about my music. And then you see James, you see on his face, Nathan seeing through Chris's bullsh and knowing he's right. Even if Haley doesn't know, Nathan knows, and so interestingly they're both right. And that's hard, so

good the rub. Yeah, she doesn't understand, and but even but here's the weird part is that even when she does finally understand Nathan was right, Chris is after me. But there's still an opportunity for me. Here Am I willing too to get on the bus and still pursue the opportunity that came through this person that had um an alternative agenda? Oh? Is it? And she attracted to him? That's it? Is it an alternative agenda? Or is it both?

Can he both Can Chris Keller both like her music and her talent and want to cultivate that and be a part of it and be attracted to her, or do you really think it's just like a bait and switch. I don't think it's a bait and switch. I think he I think it is both back the hard Part's that's the hard part. And I bet for her it's easier to see both because she says, Okay, it really sucks that he lied. He is hitting on me. Gross, But I love Nathan. I'm controlling with Nathan. I can

do both. And you know is she throwing herself into the lions down a little bit. It's a really juicy place to be. Oh my gosh, guys, we are so deep on this episode. This was a big one. I love this episode. It's this honestly might be my favorite episode so far. Really, I agree. And we haven't even gotten to what might be the most explosive thing that happened this week, which is Chris Keller kissing Haley. Oh my gosh, Scream doesn't run away, she doesn't. She stayed

in the kiss. Oh man, guys, We've got a lot to talk about and we're out of time. So Surprise Surprise Episode ten is going to be a two parter We will see you back here next week and we will have He's coming, Tyler. Chris Keller himself is coming on the episode. We'll see you back here for part two. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H. Or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com. See you next time. We are

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