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Guys.
This was the best episode of the season, hands down, best episode of the season so far. Like, I love this episode so much and enjoy you as the director and crashed it.
You crashed it, thanks, babe. I had so much fun. It was a good one.
It's such a fun episode, and I think like having you direct it as well, because we were all having these really surreal experiences being faced with our own characters, Like I think it added such a realism to the comedy because we were six years into really being able to be out in the world without being met by people who knew us from TV in the way that our characters were being met by these people who thought they knew us either from a book or a breakdown,
and I was like, oh my god, it's so crazy.
And people who were identifying with us. They were like, I'm such a Brook, I'm such a Peyton, I'm such aude. No, we've got rooms full of them. So funny.
Yeah, I love you.
So you were the only person that could have directed this.
It was.
It was so meta and so weird. Give us the rundown show it. What's the breakdown you got at the beginning?
I got Season six, Episode sixteen, Screenwriters Blues, Air date February second, two thousand and nine. Lucas wrestles with casting for his movie, while Peyton tries to prepare for their future. Dan advises Jamie on a school crash. Brooke meets the actress who will play her my favorite so this is so fun, while Nathan gets exciting news and Haley has to make a tough decision at school. There was a lot packed into this and it was written by Mike Harrow and David Strauss.
Everybody had storylines.
Yeah, yeah, everybody had something to do.
We should have done that all the time.
Even Vaughn showed up, like brought him in again, which it's been a while since we'd seen him. It was great. Everybody had a little something.
Yeah, loved it. I didn't even bring my notes down here into the office because I was like, OK, I don't need the notes. I love this so and I remember, I'll be honest, I remember being a little bit nervous because Chad had directed, but you were directing, and I was like, oh no, is this an opportunity to like talk us out of the ticks that we'd all developed
after six years of doing this show. I was like, is this going to be the time I find out that like Joy really hates when I deliver a line this way, or I make like this dumb face, or I didn't know how it would feel to be directed by a female peer like the boys we were always
kind of separate from. But I was like, yeah, oh no, And instead it turned into this opportunity where you could feel there were some things in the script that were kind of cheesy, and you found a way to make those moments really funny and like play with the dialogue in a way that just felt really collaborative and good. You did it in the scene with you and Lucas, you did it in the scene with you and me, Like the cheesy lines became paunchlines.
Like what else do children get into your heart?
Your heart?
That's exactly the line I'm thinking of that, And I think that's part.
Of why I love the way the dynamics feel in the episode so much, is because we were all making decisions, like you were leading a female perspective to make choices, and so we all got to be the team that normally, to your point, Hill, we were up against like it would normally be one of us or two of us, occasionally three of us together in a scene being like girls don't talk like this, and having a guy like it's on the page, you have to do it, and
it says right here, she's emotional or she's crying or whatever. We didn't have to follow any of those rules with you because you were sick of following those rules too. And what I sort of love is that not only do we get to clearly have more fun, but also all the stuff that I was worried that we were
getting made fun of. For Like the episode opens on a Nathan and Haley and she's in the poncho and it's like, oh god, how many how many hits are the writers going to take at us because they get to make fun of our characters, And instead it was like, oh yeah, well, all the boys will be shirtless because that's what you guys try to do to us, and all the boys are going to snap and not be able to handle the pressure, and we're all going to be cool. Like it just it flipped the dynamic in
a way that was really fun to watch. And I don't know, I felt like I felt like we got some good shots in at what we were dealing with by the scenes.
I loved it, Yeah, totally. Yeah, it was a really nice space us to be able to throw in those shots in a way that felt fair and totally believable and within the context of the story.
Yeah. And then and then it still wound up being funny, right, like, yeah, we still got that comic relief even though Nathan sits and goes, you know, why am I not wearing a shirt?
Like what's going on here?
Weird? Right? And then you still get Brooke walking into like a you know, a sea of dudes that are built like fitness models and being like, oh my god, you know a human would So it wasn't like it was all one sided. But I don't know, it just it felt it felt ripe.
Right. How early did you get the script?
A week and a half maybe, two. What it was, it was like pretty pretty fast. There was a week of prep, so it was there was. It was a lot thrown at me. And if it had not been our show, I don't know how I wouldn't have been able to do it. I mean, we had our there was so much of it. It was just a well oiled machine. Our crew knew exactly what to do. I mean I was there for quality control and sort of guidance of my vision and opinion of how how to
shape things. But the clay was basically molded. We'd been doing that for so long, so it wasn't an incredibly tall order from that point of view. But you guys, I remember being really generous and patient with me as I was learning. Was the first thing I'd ever directed. And to come in and direct people who I respect, and I you know, I know what great performance you guys were. And I didn't want to I didn't want to create tension or like make something. I don't know,
it just I just didn't know what to expect. I knew that we would all be respectful, but like I wanted to make it good, and I didn't want to put my foot in my mouth or step in it or hurt anybody's feelings or whatever, and still trying.
Are you really going to make base? Is that your bad?
Chad's the only person I could ever say that too, and he would just you know, it was like somehow I got away with it with.
Him, well the same.
That's why I was like when Chad directed, I've always been able to be really frank with Chad because that's just the dynamic of our relationship. It was different when it was like a peer that I felt closer to, you know what I mean, Like it's having I don't know, it's a weird thing where pushing back feels dangerous if it's someone that you care about, because you're like, oh, yeah, no, how are we going to navigate this well?
And we were all in it together as a cast obviously, and you know, joy for you and for Chad directing for the first time this year. It's not just that you're saying to a director like, I don't know that I necessarily agree with this because fill in the blank
six years of backstory with your character. But you're looking at your friend that you know is nervous because this is a really big deal, and you're like, you might not remember that last year my character did this, But I remember, and I don't know how to say this to you in a way where it will not feel personal, And I really don't mean to stress you out. I have a thought like they're just the panic of like
I don't want to hurt your feelings. It's like such a real thing, and I don't think we felt that even with the directors we were friends with. We didn't feel that with other directors because they were all, you know, older than us, and they'd been doing this for a long time. And it's funny you saying that. It like my chest feels tight, like in a sweet way of like I just want to make sure you're okay, but also I want to be okay, And how do we
do this together. It's such a big professional leap that we all, you know, took on these journeys.
I felt the weight of responsibility of that that it like I even looking back now, I mean, I think we all I don't know. I don't know exactly how the old adage like the quote is, but basically like everybody already knows what their biggest problems are, and they're like what their flaws and faults are and like, looking back, I I know that my stubbornness in particular was like probably my worst flaw, qualled personal character flaw at the time.
So so stubborn when I saw something and I thought it needed to be a certain way, like that was it. I really had a hard time getting around it. Part of it was the ADH shape, but some of it was just like there's a lot of it. It was just other stuff.
We've learned so much about brains in the last twenty years.
Yeah, I know, I know, right, but whatever. Some of it's just that was just where I was in life. But so the weight of responsibility of wanting to be open and get over that thing that I knew was my flaw of being so stubborn when I would see something a certain way and trying to be able to listen and then and then change it and improvise it the last second because somebody else had a different idea and you want to be open to that. Like, I
learned so much. I learned so much on this episode End with you guys in particular, it was really it was a really cool experience and you were all so generous.
It's a perfect episode. I think whatever you did you did it right, because it is a perfect episode. There wasn't a single scene where I was like, when's this over.
Usually there's like a.
Couple snoozer scenes per episode. This one was like all the hits. It was a whole CD of the hits.
The secret is keep the camera moving. That's it. You just keep it moving as much as you can. If there's anything that feels slow, just keep going. Eventually it all just blends together like one long music video.
But that's actually that's how it felt. The transitions from scene to scene really felt smooth. You know, we talked a bit in the past about just recently about how our episodes felt kind of disjointed, like Sophia was on a horror movie and I'm doing, you know, baby boom, and like everybody was doing different shit. And this really felt cohesive and cool. And not only did you have to deal with your core players, but you had like, you know, James Vanderbeek is here, Austin's here, you have
all of these doppelgangers here. It was the episode of Doppelgang. It was.
Fun. It was really fun. Well let's get into it because I loved this. I love these storylines. The fake Brook was I just I just could not stop smiling every time the two of you were on screen together.
It was so fun. It was so so fun because being able to make choices, you know, with another actor who was like essentially we talked about it and the idea was anything I did, She'd do, and so we really leaned into it. And like the literal mirror image of physicality, screaming, hugging, yelling. It's such good comedy, and I think you make a really good point.
Hill.
Part of the reason it works so well in the structure of this episode is because this whole episode is a rom com. Even the even the serious stuff, you know, joy your storyline with Ashley, the Hayle, Sam and the school dynamic, it still essentially works in a rom com structure. It's somebody saying, hey, you're really great and I'm here to support you.
Yeah, wholesome and uplifting.
Yeah, it's it's a platonic energy obviously with a student and a teacher, but it's it's still very sweet and kind and loving. And so instead of having you know, one person getting accosted by a stalker and another person trying on baby clothes, it's like the cohesion in the episode really works, and I don't know, I think it allows for some of that comedy to play even bigger, which you know, Carissa and I got to do together.
Yeah. Well, this was a whole episode about casting. How much did you play a part in the casting, because that's what I want to know before we talk about like the actual stories.
Yeah.
I think I I remember playing a pretty big part in casting. I mean I was there for all. I saw the tapes I saw. Was I in the room for any of them?
I don't know.
If I was in the room, I can't remember, but I did see a lot of tapes and definitely hand picked Alexandra who played eventually played Peyton. Huh, Carissa, I feel like maybe had already I had been picked by producers or something. There was I feel I feel like that.
Alison Munn was played Miss Lauren. That was her first episode with us, and Alison and I had done a play together in la We did The Outsiders the musical and she was Cherry Vallance and I was Sandy, girlfriend of Soda Pop or somebody, so that was really fun to bring her in. I think all the boy everybody else, I think I just kind of watched tapes.
I felt really protected in the meta casting of this episode because there's that whole conversation. Yeah, there's this whole conversation of like, dew we cast the do we cast the boobs? Do we cast? You know, like what are we casting for? And So the girl that ultimately became Peyton in the table read, I loved her, like I just loved like watching how innocent she was and how I don't know, there was like a really protective nature to that.
She felt so much like Peyton season one to me that there was an innocence, there was a softness that could easily have a hard exterior, but she was It's that same sort of like Michelle Williams quality, Like there's a sensitivity there that is so deep, like the well is so deep. Really good actress. I don't know what she's been doing since then, but she's good.
And then Nathan character too, like he was, oh, he was so little, like he was just a kid.
They seem so young.
Yeah, how weird to cast within a casting storyline.
It was weird, super weird, But I think it was fun to be able to do that from my end because I know, you guys so well, Like I kind of wouldn't have wanted anybody else to come in and make those choices. I would have wanted only one of us to be able to do that because we all knew each other. Somebody else coming in would I wouldn't have trusted their judgment.
You're ultimately Lucas in the episode.
Yeah, oh, because I'm making all these decisions.
Yeah, I know.
Part of the metanists that I really appreciate is, you know, Mike Harrow and David Strauss wrote this episode, and Mike Harrow was one of the guys who really grew up with us like on the show. You know, he I don't remember if he was a writer's assistant or just like you know, one of the junior writers when the show started, but Mike was one of the people who, especially in later seasons, I know, really had our backs. Were things that he shared to protect us and to
like illuminate certain things. You know, he he shared a lot of things with me in later years, you know, Hill, even after you left it, I hadn't known that, Like I really cherish him for because that was a risk for him. And there's things happening in this episode where I'm like, oh, wow, you were really brave because he wrote James Vanderbeek to say some exact things that our
boss had said to us. They were gross. Yeah, and you get to see how gross it is and you get to see that he's taking shots at this guy, being like, this is how you treat people, and this is how you talk to women, and this is how you're trying to cast your show.
And uh, it's so ballsy, man, it's so ballsy to hold the mirror up.
Yeah, he really did it, and I was like, whoa. You know even that a lot of it got through, and you know, maybe some of that is when you think you're all powerful, you know, your ego makes you
think no criticisms will ever get through. But it kind of took my breath away and I thought he did it so smartly in that he jumbled up who the boss said what to but some of those things really came out of our boss's mouth and I went ooh, and I was like, oh, yeah, you just get to see how totally inappropriate and disgusting it is and there's no there's no defense for it. It's really nice to watch the scenes play out.
Yeah, because he's so grow like, oh, so great, because Vanderbeek is great. He does it really well.
But what I love about Vanderbeek is he really commits as an actor and he's like, oh you want me to be slammy watch this and you're like, thank you.
Yeah.
He doesn't judge his characters, and it was very important that that character was portrayed. Honestly, I was.
Impressed well and that he's not He's not far fetched. Like that is literally how we were being spoken about. It's how day players on our show were spoken about in front of me and spoken to.
And there was no mustache twisting. He wasn't being a villain. He was being like a normal quote unquote, nice, likable guy who just happens to say some gross things, you know, on the offset and then it just the closer you get, the ickier it.
Gets, cause it's funny.
Yeah, but he didn't seem like he wasn't trying to be dastardly he or you know, awful. He was just being he was being real.
Oh, which is so wool, but it's so I got to say, like, there's something you know, all of us having been through it, there's something I really appreciate about watching it, and how we didn't pull back from it, and how it was Vanderbeek essentially portraying our boss, who was being written by one of the writers who'd been with us the whole time, who'd heard all the stories, who told us a lot of a lot of what was happening in the writer's room in la and that
you were directing it, and by the way, directing it with our crew who'd been there for so long. You know that all these people have relationships with Like our camera crew came from Dawson's. So even if you think about it that way, our DP, we know, was able to say to Vanderbeek, like, yeah, this is what these girls are going through, and it just I don't know, like the four of you somehow making this stuff get from the page to the screen.
It's like Captain Plantage, Yeah, it's like I.
Feel like we got away with something in a way to be like, you want to know what it was like, It was like this but worse.
Yeah, the irony of our boss creating this whole storyline and then having it get used exactly against him in the way you like, that's pretty great. I mean, you can't write this stuff even though you can't apparently like.
There's so much about it that wasn't great, but this is great. Yeah.
Well it made it so easy to side I Beak, Like each one of us had a moment with him where it was like, uh, wait, don't want this, like whenever you are pass, yeah, which hard pass feels redemptive. The one thing though, in the Beak storyline, you know now that you're bringing up Mike crafting this thing and really touching on some of the stuff that was actually going on. The thing that I found most triggering in this episode was Julian and his complacency with the way
the work was being depicted. Because I don't necessarily mind a bad guy. My biggest trigger in life is a coward. Like cowards infuriate me in a way that's probably not normal. And the cowardice of Julian to let that breakdown go out and then try to like spin it later irritated the out of me. I couldn't deal with all the other men in the room going along with that personification of Brook. It really biked me.
Yeah.
And the thing is, by the way, I fully agree, and it is one of those moments where I can see why It's necessary because it is the device. It is, it is what makes as Brooke and Missy are spending time together, what makes them like in the way they meet perfectly, then they start having these near misses. You
need the confusion. I liked getting to stand up for myself because it also felt very meta to me in that you know, I have felt that way and we've talked about it on the show, Like it was really hard for me coming onto the show and then receiving treatment in public and being like, oh, people think I'm this promiscuous part like Brooke Davis, which, by the way, have sex with as few or as many people as
you want. I don't actually care about that. What I care about is the way we treat women differently if we believe they are sexual. And it was really scary for me, like growing up in a mostly all girls' school environment, I did three years of a co ed college, and then I came on this show and I was like, what is happening? Well, like why why are people talking to me this way in public? Why do people touch
me in public? And I watch them not touch other people, Like it was very hard for me, and so what I loved in this episode was getting to say things that I had said then and that I say sometimes now, where I'm like, of all the cool shit I have done as a woman, you want to talk about who I dated or what dips cheated on me, or who I figured out wasn't who I thought they were, Like that has to do with other people's bad behavior, Like I've done this cool thing, I've been this advocate, I've
built this company or nonprofit or whatever.
Why Why don't the things women do matter more productive?
Yeah, than the way other people treat us or want to sleep with us? And so yeah, I don't know. In the way that I loved it, Beek personified our boss being gross. I loved that I got to sort of vent about my own experience and experiences by the way that I know you've both had where it's like you, that's that's the thing you want to ask me about in my whole day life. And so, I don't know, there's a I hated obviously that Julian was a coward
because I'm like you, and cowardice triggers the out of me. Yeah, because we always had to stand up for ourselves, and I get annoyed when people with more power don't. But I did like it as a writing device. Because I liked it, I got my moment to be like, how dare you? And then I got to say yeah, and I got to say it to Missy and I got to say it to Julian and I was like, yeah, I'm pork. Davis is a badass. Women are bad asses.
Leave me alone, and I sort of I loved the payoff, even if I hated him having to be a little bitch to get me. Well, no, one not.
Everyone's born with a backbone, right like some people. Some people's story is that they grow one. And so if Julian is growing a backbone, neat. I love that he fedexes your bone.
FedEx super cool. Guys.
Have we ever been in a situation where we had the FedEx our yearbook to the location we were at? Oh? He really wanted to make that point. He's like, I showed you to see the butt cut that I had in nineteen ninety eight.
The butt cut. What a term.
And Brooke gets to go home after all of it and the relationship she has with Sam. It's like, I love that in spite of all of the stuff that's being thrown at her, she just gets to go home and continue to do what really makes her, investing in the people that she cares about, building up this young woman. It's like, that's what we do. Just go ahead, keep throwing it at me. I'm I'm gonna just keep being me. And Brooke does that non stop in this episode. I
just see her. It's so fun to watch her or you whatever, like dealing with all of this stuff coming at Brook and then just being like, but you know what, this is what really matters, and then that's what I'm gonna focus on. That's what makes her so great and lovable.
Well, all the girls had that storyline this episode. It was like, hey Hayley, you're gonna lose your job. Hey Peyton, you're on your own kid. Hey Brooke, you're a whore forever, you know. Like yeah, everybody had these things and the women just had to be fine. And then Lucas got to have a temper tantrum.
Yeah yeah, yeah right. I did fill out with Peyton though. I was just watching you at the fireplace. I was like, I feel that, like how many times I would be a millionaire if I had a quarter for every time I had to suck it up? Swallow it down. Yeah, Yeah, I'm good. Everything's great, great.
Call me later, Yeah, I'll be here. You broke my heart.
Everything.
Oh, the hormones are real, though I don't know how much I realized that when we filmed this. You know, you say words that are on the paper and you're like, eh, I don't and then you know, a year later, I was pregnant for real. I guess yeah, if this aired February second of two thousand and nine, I had gus March of twenty ten. Yeah, and all of a sudden, all that hormone. This was like a premon mission. This
was practice. The hormone stuff is super real, and even now in our early forties, girls, I'm gonna cry on a dime. I walk around, Yeah, I walk around like forty percent ready to cry at all times. And it's just a matter of what the trigger's gonna be. And that crib I could feel, I could feel the venom in my body with the crib, with the foreign language instructions, because I feel like we've all lived that. It's like, yeah, thanks for the gift.
Well, and there was no one of the things that really struck me watching you do that. I was like, we had none of the stuff then that helps you. Now, there was no like Google app on your iPhone that can translate any menu into English. No, there was no task rabbit. Turns out skills is the task rabbit. He's like, oh yeah, I baby proof, I'm.
A handy hand.
That was so funny. He was so funny in that scene with you.
But that's also who he is in real life.
It is exactly how Antonina is. But I wrote it down. I was like, she has no task rabbit, she has no translate, she has nothing, she has nothing to help her. She's just stuck mea who maybe is Italian Catalano. Yeah, so silly. I just remember.
I don't know why I that crib. I hated that crib so much. Yeah, it was in the way or something, and maybe it just took them too long to set up. I don't know why. It was, Like, really it was annoy I remember, and I noticed it in the episode because you not that you're gonna go back, because who has time. But like, if you notice, there's a lot of shots that are just kind of instead of directly over each other's shoulders, It's like we did a two shot and then we sort of just did the like
cross I don't know how to explain it. Yeah, cross coverage that was like slightly wider, but just like, how do we get out of this faster? Because this is this crib is really irritating.
Well for it to fall apart all four sides like that a setup. You know, you're putting together an erector set with just enough parts not connected to fall apart on cue. That was a nightmare. Yeah, handled handled though the comedy.
Well that's it for our friends at home. Sometimes the thing that looks the easiest is literally the hardest chain in the ass on the day, like to make that thing stick together but then also fall down, like the the one side at a time. It's just a night They had a fishing wire.
Yeah, it has to be great, and a fishing wire it's just terrible.
Yeah, And that's that's just the stuff that nobody, you know, who's not on set would know. But oh man, it's like if you've ever had a friend come visit on a day where you have to do a little gag like that, that's when the people are like, this is what you guys do all day? This is really boring. You're like saying, thank you it's great.
Yeah, believe in the power of the edit.
The edit will make it funny. Loved it.
Speaking of funny, Dan and Jamie like their whole the beginning though, Like I loved the blocking of the beginning where Jamie's walking on that wall, so then he and Dan are goals like I and them talk. You could just feel how much fun Paul was having.
Yeah, I could do. He really was having a good time. It seemed almost out of character for it was so much Paul and so little Dan. But well, you know, he likes to mess with the audience that way too, so who knows.
I also think, though, in a way what I like and I have seen this, you know, with people I love, certainly, especially now that you know so many of our friends are parents, people who didn't have great relationships with some of their parents. Their parents are getting a second shot
with the grandkids. They're getting to be the parents they never got to be, and it's it's like kind of profound And I feel like that's almost what we're seeing with Dan, and it probably is because Paul just had so much fun with Jackson and they're so charming together, and you can tell how much fun Jackson has with Paul. But you know you were traveling last week, Joy, But I was saying to Hill and Kate, I was like, I hate that I love Dan Scott in this episode,
and I'm having the same experience in this one. I just love him and I know better, but my god, I love him. And maybe it's because I really, you know, really love Paul, but it is so freaking sweet to see them like this, and I don't know, I just I want more of it. I want so much more of this Dan and Jamie dynamic.
Well, let's be for real, like if we're Miss Lauren, we're kissing Grandpa Dan all yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like showing up at that dude's beach house and he's so charming and he's just his hair has never looked better. He's so good with the child.
He reads The Time Traveler's Wife. On what planet? Does Dan Scott read the Time Traveler's Wife?
Of course he does.
Listen.
That prison library is small, Joy.
He's gonna read whatever is there.
That's right, that's right.
I loved it.
And Shamie back he was in prison.
She's just like, oh, okay, that's great to know.
Cool to do with that?
Oh, I loved it because you could tell she's like vibeing a little bit with him, And there is no greater buzzkill then that he was in prison.
Bob, No, that kind of wrecks it.
I still think it's weird that after the kidnapping, Dan brings Jamie back. There's the whole hallabaloo about that, and now it's just it's a free for all. He just picks up Jamie enter school, he's the babysitter. It's like it's all good now. Everything from the past just wiped slate, wiped clean because he you know, he showed up saved zero for an afternoon, which is amazing, But like, what's going on, dude, I don't know. It seems strange to me.
If if I didn't do the show that I do for Sundance, where I literally just cover small town cases of murder, I wouldn't believe the storyline. But you would be amazed what people just turn their heads off to. They're like, I don't want to think about that. He's fine, I need a babysitter, he's available. Wow. You know, like, yeah, you can super compartmentalize.
Yeah, you can talk yourself into anything.
Yeah, he didn't mean it.
Yeah, but when I really try to think about it too, you know, Dan got kidnapped by her, he got tortured, he missed a heart. If we really get granular on not even touching on the Dan and Keith of it all. But I wonder how much of that too, where you go like, this man, whatever I may think of him, shares trauma with my grandson, with this crazy person, he's the only person who understands let's let them spend time together. To your point, I think you can kind of rationalize
or compartmentalize any thing. And maybe that's part of why it feels so weird for us to be watching these episodes and loving Dan because we're like, I'm supposed to not like him. But the human mind and heart operate very differently from like black and white lists on a piece of paper.
Yeah.
Yeah, if you only start the clock at like Jamie's awareness of Dan, like when they actually meet, Dan's a victim and that's all Jamie knows him, as it's like a fellow victim kid doesn't know, doesn't know all. You know, the backstory wasn't there for it. But Haley and Nathan news where's deb Like Where did Deb go?
Where is she?
I really don't know. It's been It's pretty strange.
They had a good thing going with her babysitting.
Yeah, I don't know. There's too many other storylines. I guess maybe they tried to get her for this episode and she was not available.
Something.
Vanderbeek telling me that I'm too old to play Peyton, that I'd make a great deb feels like right now in twenty twenty four, very full circle. Yeah, oh yeah, I guess.
I guess.
Yeah, I guess that is what we'd be doing now. We would be the mom's no.
Yeah, I'll be Deb. I like how messy she can be great too? Man, was it this cohesive on the paper?
No, I think we added in a lot, like there was a lot of transitions that were disjointed and things that felt like I remember working a lot on the transitions in particular, and just trying to make sure that everything flowed and figuring out thematically, like where the ties
were and how to just keep it moving. I think that at that point that was probably my biggest complaint about the sh If I would watch it, it's like we just had we had too many episodes that felt stagnant or like destoyed to disconnect it as we've been talking about, And there were plenty that were really good too, and that moved. But yeah, this is just the whole thing felt like it should be fun and there was no need to stop and be super serious with anything
other than a couple of key moments. Everything else was just let's just keep it moving, let's keep everybody having fun.
And then the moments really played up, like when the camera would stop when you go into the new principal's office, you know, and you can't decide if you're gonna sit or stand or sit or stand. There's motion, and then when she says the thing, everything stops and it the choices that you and the DP made together in those ways help the energy of like wait what did she say? Like that reveal that thing that feels so bad literally causes a stop motion and it increases for as an
audience member, the shock of what's happening? Do you remember because obviously we weren't in that, We weren't in that scene. Where does this new principle come from? Why is this going to be like a big storyline? For Haley, I was like wait, wait, wait, who is this woman I like, I just didn't remember.
She does come back. She, by the way, was from Seinfeld. She was Malva, the best, the best.
Did you cast her?
I don't remember.
She's scary man.
Yeah, yeah, she's serious. I think she does come back. It becomes a bigger a little bit of a bigger storyline. She was lovely, really lovely person. Yeah. I don't remember much about that, but it was those are what you were saying. Those are fun, fun things to learn how to do and just create create story with camera, you know, pulling away and leave people alone or long lenses and how that creates a feeling of part of being a
part of a community. And it's just it was was really it was really cool to learn a lot a lot of that stuff. I don't know how you so, how soon after this did you direct?
I directed in the following season in season seven?
Okay, did you feel like had you did you do anything before you directed to sort of prep for that in terms of learning or was it on the fly? I was learning a lot of this on the fly, like, oh, if we if we pull out, she feels really alone, let's do that, you know, me just kind of pick it up along the way.
I agree. I mean, I think if anything, the stuff that I really felt like I intentionally wanted to observe was you know, pacing, how how you would keep a set organized and keep to a schedule, because you know, we were shooting time. You know, it's a lot shocker, And for me, it was about like, you know, blocking efficiency, like really watching the things that directors we felt close enough to pester with questions we're doing. And then yeah,
the more technical stuff. Even now, even after all those episodes we did and all the things like me being a little dyslexic, it's like very hard for me to remember which lenses which, like I always have to ask a like a confirming question. But yeah, beginning to figure out what technical things you could do to increase a feeling you know, of closeness or distance, or how you could block something to make someone appear very alone in
a crowd, you know that stuff. I feel like, on the one hand, we were learning in real time because we just did it every day, and then on the other hand, like there were things you'd learn on the day because thank god, we had a cru that had been with us for so many years. Yes, and such good camera department that could be like, hey, here's a quick tip, like I learned this thing in film school, and you'd be like, oh, okay, great.
Yeah, fantastic. I remember that with the d with the Jamie and Dan stuff we had. There was a shot of him walking down the stairs and I was like, just now watching it, I went, why are we in a crane?
Why?
Why the world would we using a crane for this? That seems so unnecessary? And then I remember that they had there was some kind of thing where they like had this crane. They had to use it because they had I don't know if it had to be sent back. I didn't have to be sent back. I don't know what was going on. There was something that they were like, no, you have the crane and you should you know, you need to use it. And I remember being like, can
we use it a trick? And they're like, well, you're inside, it's a whole thing to get it upstairs, Like is there any outdoor location we could just use the crane? I was like all right, fine, great, So getting to learn from the crew, how do you you know those kinds of things on the fly where the day before they're like, let's use a green Okay, great, figuring out a crane make it interesting. But you know, anyway, I
was gonna say, I really liked watching Peyton. I know we talked about the crib, but that was from a different perspective. But I liked watching Peyton struggle through with this whole doing things on her own without Lucas around, because she's she's so capable, and that's you know, she's kind of used to being a loner, and it was really sweet to see her in a space where she is so used to being alone and handling things on her own and she really doesn't want to be now
and like to struggle from that place. I feel like we've all been there, you know, when you're single for a long time and you're used to just getting done, and then you fall in love and you start to rely on the other person and then they're suddenly not around, and then you have to go back to being the way that you were, but you don't want to because you're soft now open. It was really sweet.
The shell is off.
I know, how did you feel about that? All that stuff that you guys were Once you guys were together, it was all super lovey, DeBie.
But we were a part a lot. Like I talked before about the isolation of Peyton in this whole season, and this episode was a nice departure because she goes to Tricks, She's with me, she's with Brooks, she's with Haley. Like Peyton's getting a little like pop ins from skills, you know, Like I got to maybe that's why I like this episode so much, because.
She wasn't so.
It wasn't all by myself, you guys. Yeah, it is really hard for me to work on stuff around my house with someone because I'm just conditioned to do stuff
by myself. And every year I go through the same process of where I get really comfortable with my husband being home and like helping me pick the kids up and helping me with the groceries and like doing all of that, and he leaves tomorrow to go start filming his show, and I feel Peyton's anxiety in this where it's like no, but I finally let someone in it, Like I'm I'm just codependent enough to feel comfortable and you're not here. Yeah, I just want to dash of
codependency because it's fleeting. They always have to go somewhere. Fine, but when Lucas shows up at the ultrasound that undid me, like hot a nice still cry about that? Yeah, that that stuff, especially if you've ever suffered pregnancy loss, is it's hard to explain the terror of going to those part appointments because there's no guarantee that they're gonna go right,
and you are with a stranger who you know. You feel like a guinea pig and it's much easier to face tragedy when you have your person with you, but there's there's no else, and worse than when the tech is like can you just go sit back in the waiting room, I'll have someone come talk to you in a minute, you know, like it's it's really bad. And
so I completely Peyton's terror. And what's weird to me is that we had to depict this stuff before it happened to us in real life, like none of us had had kids, yeah, you know, like we were guessing uh and so yes, So much of this episode is meta, but it feels meta for me personally because I lived it not long after, and I don't know that gets in your head. That's when you start to wonder, like
if you conjure shit, like what is happening? But Lucas showing up made me love Lucas and Peyton so much. People pick on us for being cheeseballs. Once we're together, I don't give a shit. I don't care what you think. We are in love. He showed up. He was like you told me last week, like what you had that?
Yeah, Like that's Lucas Scott, That's who he is. He's you kidding me. No matter what's going on, no matter how crazy the day is, no matter how much his world is exploding or getting weight on his shoulder, putting weight on his shoulders, He's going to show up for Bayton. That's why.
Well it was so romantic and it didn't cost a thing. He just showed up. And remember, well don't cost I mean.
But it speaks to that that really important and sometimes I think hard to define, but you know when you see it experience of really being seen, when you feel seen, when you feel valued, like you can design a whole life, and if you don't feel seen, it will feel empty. And I think that's why those moments feel so special.
That moment that I told you made me cry last week for you guys, you know when when you I was telling Hillary Joy when you were traveling that she and Chad had this scene last week about Keith's ring, and like, what struck me as as a viewer was, Oh, Peyton is literally choosing her dream come true. She's saying, I want the thing I've always wanted. It was so like, Oh, it just like squeezed my heart in the best way.
And this felt like a continuation of that, which is especially I think, nice to see for Peyton and everything she's been through you In that scene, he walks in the door and it's like, Oh, she is seen and heard and loved, and that's everything.
Safe Peyton is a totally different animal. Safe Peyton is cheesy, She's making bad mom jokes.
All the time, like magic.
But what a beautiful arc to go from where she came from to be here now Save.
Peyton, because trauma can make some people real, right, And I like that our girls have all been through different kinds of trauma and are trying to be the best version, not the you know, not the gross version.
I liked that.
When you were talking about camera lenses and like different techniques to make things feel a certain way. I liked that you had me take my jacket off at that scene by the fire, because there's something really vulnerable about like your full arms showing like Peyton had been in this Blazer the whole episode, which feels like I'm holding it together. I'm holding it together, I'm structured, I'm a business lady, I'm.
A boss, I'm fine, grown up.
And then taking off that layer. Is this really subliminal because I'm like rubbing my arm in the scene, and I remember when we watched it thinking just like, oh, what like a weird self soothing mechanism and there was just like a vulnerability to it. And those are those little things that a great director can figure out, Like we can say the word words, but we can add this layer and it will feel even sadder.
Or remove a layer that might have been your choice though too, you know you you. I mean that's also one of the things we get to do as actors is come up with these things that will feel will help us tell the story. So I don't remember if that was me or you, but either way, I liked the choice.
How did you jump from directing to doing all your though? Because your stuff was really serious this episode. I mean, Haley is not only dealing with this thing of work, but she's also counseling Lucas, and she's counseling Peyton and dealing with you know, Nathan's got big stuff. You know, like it was. It's not like they gave you an episode off.
No, they certainly didn't. I don't know that I felt like it was all that serious. I think the material felt manageable for me. It felt like a natural place to go to. The conversations were pretty easy. The dialogue wasn't too complicated, so there was a second nature to a lot of that that didn't throw me off too much. I just really did not enjoy, uh, trying to be in a scene with someone and also trying to be out of my body and imagining what the scene looks like.
As an actor, I I don't like it. I want to be fully present, So I didn't enjoy that. I would prefer not to do that again.
Did you have someone like helping you?
Greg might have? Rick was r A D two. He was super hopeful. Remember seeing Chad in this episode. Chad the bar one.
Chad Graves was our other first assistant director for you Guys at Home. There were there was like our stand in. Steven played one of the Nathans else was a little a little treat in here now.
Yeah, Steven and Chad Graves were super exciting to see and and when when the girls, you know, when we're talking about these guys, Chad Graves and Rick Clark for our friends at home. The first ads on our shows are really like the steadiness on set. Every episode you've got a different director. Sometimes a director will do two or three episodes in a season, but the first ads, one of them takes all the odd episodes like one, three, five, and then one of them takes all the even episodes,
you know, two, four, six, et cetera. And so every other week you flip flop between these two people. And so to get to put Chad Graves in was so cool and really random, just continuation of how our little
Wilmington family has stayed so tight. I got to spend a couple more years working with Rick Clark because he came in to be one of the first AD's on Chicago Met so on all my crossover episodes, I was working with Rick, and so it's like, I don't know, it's so special for us, those really long relationships, and yeah, it feels like it feels so cool and you get to throw your friends on screen, and then you know the people who no, no, it's like a it's like a fun little inside joke.
Well I like it because those cocky anpholes are always like actors actors, and then when you're shining the light on them and you're like, okay, hit your mark go, all of a sudden.
They're like, oh, yeah, no, I'm cool.
I'm cool. Yeah, I'm a little flustered.
Let's spin a wheel.
I want to spin that wheel. Okay, Oh who is most likely to sell everything and travel the world for three years?
It's a specific amount of time.
Yeah, really, yeah, sell everything?
Not Sophia.
She's a hoarder. And I'm like you, I could never and not me. I don't leave my fucking house. Joey, you're the one that's traveling right now.
I guess I could do that. I could see myself doing that. I don't know if I'd sell everything for three years of travel, I might sell everything for ten years of travel. If I was just like peace out, like Maria's at college, I'm gonna go just bounce.
Do you want to be like those people who figured out that if they just live on cruises they don't taxes anymore, and so they're spending all their retirement money because they don't live anywhere. They live in international waters. There was this big article about this couple. They've taken their whole retirement savings and they are just living on cruise ships for the next fifteen years.
Yep, the horror of that. To me, I could never That sounds like my worst lay.
But if it's what you like. I am passionate about my things and my chotchkeys. I get made fun of very often when I talk about my chochkeys, I get teased about my trinkets and trash. One man's trash is another woman's treasure. Thank you very much.
You're a bit of an overpacker, which I appreciate because I'm always the one that's like, I didn't bring shoes.
I need a bad Yeah, you need shoes, you need earrings?
Got it? Where? Yeah? Where do you go for three years? Where are you going?
Well?
I guess I'm gonna go. I mean I'm gonna travel. I'm gonna get on trains. I'll probably do Europe for a year, I'll do Asia for a year. I go to I don't know, maybe Australia. Just go wander, Yeah, see what's out there, say hi to people, get to know people that are different, say hellout.
Which character is doing this? Is it? Also? Hayley?
It feels like a Lucas thing if he didn't have Peyton, like if.
Yeah, yeah, it feels like he would vagabond around and like write a second very book vagabonding novel. Yeah yeah, and Haley would like rib him and be like, what do you think you are? Jack Kerouac, and you'd be like yeah, like it would be very that and I think it would be cutie.
Mm hmmm, all right, I like this.
I like it.
Now we have a question, guys. We have a question, uh from Lisa.
Lisa.
This is a very broad question. I'm not mad at it though. She wants to know what your favorite genre of music is. Oh like today because it change changes.
I mean today today, Cowboy Carter. Yeah, I'm like, I'm like Act too. The full album is currently my favorite. Everything happening, but it changes all the time. It depends on my mood.
Yeah, you know me too. Is there one genre that you can always listen to no matter what's going on, you can always be like, I'm done.
With this, well is do you have one?
I wasn't on to listen to modern radio growing up. I absolutely like nothing modern, and I only listened to like motown and more sixties music. Like the sixties was a whole vibe. And that was before you could get serious radio or any kind of yeah, satellite radio to like selectively pick things out.
I heart.
Yeah. So there was, Yes, there was a whole oldies station, and I learned every word to every oldie song ever. Oh yeah, it's my comfort zone. The kids know, Like if they come in the kitchen and that's blaring, they're like.
Oh, she had a day Okay, Yeah, mom's fantastically good.
Yeah Motown.
I love oldies. That's good. I feel like this is a that's a zone, the classic rock zone. I can get into a lot pretty easily. The Carol King and the Beatles and the seventies stuff. I'm pretty I'm pretty into. That's what my parents listened to, So I think it's the same type of thing. It's like whatever the comfort zone is from when you're a kid.
Maybe, Yeah, It's like I always listened anytime I was alone in the car with my mom, we'd blare motown and anytime I was alone in the car with my dad, we'd always turn on like the original Eagles records, And so I have this like sweet, like solo date with my parents' energy about both of those things. So anytime I get in a car and like either of those
genres is on the radio, I always leave it. But yeah, I feel like maybe because we're actors and like part of the way we really get into things is music. Like I make a soundtrack for every character I've ever played, So I feel like it's so hard to pick something.
Yeah, we have an appreciation for so many different things.
Yeah, but yeah that anytime, keep it on feels nice. All right, you guys.
Next episode is season six, episode seventeen.
You and Me and.
The Bottle makes three sounds like my life story. Oh tonight, Yeah, forgot the tonight Park makes three millions tonight.
Next week you later.
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