Anatomy of a Relationship • EP401

you about premiere of season four. It feels like it's been a minute since we don't know yes, yeah, yes, since we like watched an episode, because we've just been bopping around saying hi to people, wearing for jamas, kissing kissing babies. Thank god, this was like forty minutes of recap in this episode too. We did joy. Oh my god. Okay, So it's the same deep Water as you. Air date September thousand six. The synopsis is the aftermath of the

post wedding car accident unfolds. While Hayley is deeply affected by Nathan's attempt to rescue deeply um deeply screaming at the top of her lungs and Rachel. Brooke confronts Lucas with her true feelings, and Peyton makes a startling discovery, pressured by the fact that someone might know he killed his brother Dan assault step Oh good to know he had a reason. I was about to say, what a terrible write up. I don't know how I feel about

a justification there? Who did this? Right? Up? Yeah, guys, I was feeling so much pressure I had to strangle my wife. Yeah. I just had to do something so violent that all the women watching the show screamed at this. God, yeah, that was weird. I was like that. I mean, look, our show is what going into season four? We have some tried and true themes here. Okay, one tree Hill loves a fake pregnancy. I had totally for gotten about like the bait and switch like pregnancy thing. But Brooke

did that one season one too. When was that? Yeah, No, it was first season when she thought, yeah, when she thought she was pregnant, and then I found out she she was late and then went to the doctor. But then Lucas said that disgusting thing to her, and she was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna make you suffer. Yeah, but it's just gonna make you regret that in our writer's minds, like this is what bitchy girls do. They lie to you about being pregnant. Like I just this

is how women manipulate men. And it's like, hey, guys, women at best can get pregnant for a twenty four hour period once a month. Dudes can just run around and pregnant and girls all day long, every single day, every single month in every' here here, Like but this notion that like these these women, this is how they though is are they actually? Is anyone actually intentionally? I thought it was all just a misunderstanding with the purses. Rachel tells Cooper at the beginning of the episode. It's

what Rachel does, that's right. I thought she didn't tell him. I thought it was an implication. And then that's why in the finale of three, you don't know who it is. But in the beginning of this episode, and it was kind of buried in the flashbacks, they extended the flashbacks so clearly we shot some of the season four episode one while we shot season three finale. But but in the in this episode, she says I'm pregnant, and he says,

I don't believe you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so and then she says to mouth, you know I said it. I said it to scare him. I shouldn't have done that. And it's like this big regret thing she has, and and it is it's like, have have the dudes in our writer's room ever dated anybody like goling on? They're like, oh,

pregnancy the worst? What are we gonna do? I mean, it is telling that those that those like horrible things girls do, you know, fake pregnancy things never made it into the episodes that any of the guys on our writing staff who were actually dad's, like the actual dads, were like, that's not real, that's not that's kind of interest. The other we we established a couple other patterns, so

we know we love a fake pregnancy injury hill. We also love a car wreck like one number were on at this point there have been so many car three four work in that hospital. And then we love the hospital the theme of the fuked up wedding, So like, yeah, I wasn't around for Brooks wedding, but did something happen Dad? I think like something went wrong, but it was it

was like not like not drama. Honestly, all I remember from the wedding from Brooks Wedding is that the vows were so bad that I rewrote them, and that Joy you were pregnant and we were just like having a great time because we decited to meet Maria. That's it. I rewrote the vows and you and I like, did this the eye point thing that wasn't scripted and the fans die for it, and I'm like, yeah, it's because we're awesome people for us, Like that's all. That's literally

all I remember. I just I want to know when you have to writers went to that traumatized them so badly that they were like, I've never been to a wedding that didn't end in a you know, crash and burn. Yeah. I think that's just classic TV drama. I mean every Dallas Dynasty, you know, name your soap and whatever it is, that's the classic. Like where do you get more high

drama than a wedding and then everything going wrong. I mean it's even a Game of Thrones thing like the Red Wedding had one of those famous things from that, I don't know what to get to the next level. I mean, you know, if we're gonna go, let's go all the way in when you asked, you know, when you asked, like, you know what what egs of these writer has been to us? Like, yeah, did somebody get left at the altar? And then I was like, oh

ship Lindsay does that to Luca? Yes, Keith and Maria manus, Oh yeah, you know Peyton bleeds out after her wedding. How many weddings have we had? Now? We had so we had Keith and Jules, we had Nathan and Haley. This is the second Nathan and Haley wedding, second Nathan. So that's three weddings. But we know one more, yea. We know that they that that Lucas and Lindsay are going to go sideways. We know that Lucas and Peyton are going to go sideways. What other weddings are there?

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, but you're not. I mean, it is not an ironic thing to say. Is the human who just got married and had the best time that weekend? But it's like, yeah, man, I don't know, Maybe you should just alope and like save that money to buy some I love that Elizabeth Taylor Courthouse vibe. Man, give me a pillbox hat and a piece of paper to sign. And right after we were in Vegas, one of my childhood friends got married in Vegas and it looked like the sexiest cool you know,

Elvis married them. It was so fun. Yeah, that's hot. Sophie Turner and Joe Jonahs did that and the pictures were sick. I actually made you guys. You know I love a Pinterest board. I have a secret Pinterest board that is a full like retro courthouse wedding, like l

a classic kind of a thing. Because there was a point where I was like, well, if we're not going to be able to have a wedding, like if if the numbers and the risk of gathering in this pandemic are going to remain so high, like when we didn't really know if there would be lulls in the summer, kind of like we know now. I was just like, all right, I'm going to plan something great and I like literally designed to hold back up wedding around the pictures I thought would be cute just in case people

could go. I was like, it'll be great, it'll be cute. It was. It was very Liz Taylor. I didn't think about it. Joy, Thank you for yes for that little nugget. I hope you I hope you get to use that some I know. I told Grant, I was like, we'll have to do it for like a vournewell or something. It'd be so fun. But the idea that that you had like an eight am wedding, like everyone's in the hospital by two pm, so you're ceremony like, look at back,

let's back right. I'm pretty sure we had to eat chicken and steak and ship at your wedding like it was a nighttime wedding. And then to see that everyone's in the hospital by two pm. This was a brunch wedding. This was like a breakfast wedding. You guys are in the Mustang going to your honeymoon at two oh one pm. Oh you saw that, you noticed? Yeah, yeah, we got married a love and we partied until until too, I

mean awesome. And and maybe that's the thing. Why didn't we think of that, Like we could have been like like done with our day had we had a morning wedding and then still you know, been able to be on the news, go to the hospital back and forth, have some pregnancy tests, like so they make fun of themselves in this episode, A writer's because they say, like, oh, how come bad days last forever? But like, legitimately, the

fact that everything that happened one day is ridiculous. You called it when Moira was in the hospital room talking with her doctor about her pregnancy. I'll tell you why she in the hospital doing that instead of at a private wow. I mean whatever, because the boy wrote it and they don't know how girls were. I guess it's also like, who has an appointment with their doctor at what eight nine o'clock at night? Because Hayley was asleep, Brooke woke her up, Like, no doctor is going to

let you in the opposite that hour. Well, let's talk about what else no doctor is gonna let you do. If you were driving drunk a you'd be handcuffed to your bed, which Rachel was not. But also they would never let her into Cooper's room, and she's just in there all the time. She's in there all the time.

She's in there when he's being defibrillated. Like the first thing they do is they push friends and family out of the room when there is a code, like because you have to do terrible things to humans, so like bring them back to life. Yeah, because you did a medical show. You you did, good, Sam, tell us what you learned happens in those rooms? Oh my god. Well, the first thing I said when I watched, you know, Cooper starts coding and you see people like run past

his room but not into it. I'm like, it doesn't work like that. They run in immediately and start CPR and call for a crash card. And by the way, like we had to have had a medical person on set. Whoever let that sweet extra person who was playing the doctor give the worst CPR I have ever seen. I was just like, come on, empower your actors, help her, especially if we're gonna be in a hospital every single episode, Like, just invest the team, Just let's make the commitment. Yeah,

they bought a hospital. They okay, so that hot for our listeners who don't know that hospital. That was the first time I think that we had gotten that we were out of the hospital set in our stages and they actually bought an old factory, do you guys, that's right? And so we we took over a side of this factory on the ground floor and that became our hospital

set for the next six years. So yeah, you think they would have gotten as a medical team too, And it was so weird because you'd go to this factory and it was like creepy and a little like they's just weird abandoned hallway energy. And then you'd make a right and there'd be sliding doors and you'd be in a pastel hospital with like you know, the room where the babies are and the room where surgeries happened. We were it was just like a total It was like

a mind warp. It was very strange and weird. Love that when we're in a hospital setting we don't have to hide our p a s because like there's just like people in your people clothes. In the last being in the elevator with me for the people missed it, a production assistant named Lasseter and she was like a chick our age who we partied with after work. And she's the only girls on the a D staff and she is very clearly in the elevator with Sophia the whole time, and she's, my god, that's so funny. I

gotta go back and watch. So it's it's in that moment for you guys at home, when Peyton arrives at the hospital, hugs Lucas and then the elevator opens to reveal Brooke and she sees Peyton and Lucas together again. Which is the theme for Brook in this whole episode is that like you choose her every time, like you say you want to be with me, but you actually choose her, you call her, you know, she's the first

person you go to. And and the like visual representation of that, which is such a gut punch from Brooke, was totally ruined for the three of us because we burst out laughing because we saw last Oh my god, there was no well, she had to be there because the elevator doors, there was no It wasn't a real elevator. I think it was just doors built into a wall and a hole in the room, and so she was she had to be there to push the buttons open

at the exact right moment. Yeah, I think it was like dudes with a pulley, Like I don't even get it. It was just like someone with a pulley that would open the doors and then that would have a cute People were ready outside the elevator with her little she was in there with the wakie talkie, that's what she was doing. We also need to talk about unexpected things we don't expect to see our women doing on screen,

be they are pas or our actors. UM. I wasn't totally prepared for Peyton to go full Blair witch like a fire in her bedroom, um, epic setting spells to remove Brooke from her relationships. What Sophia? It worked, It worked, but like you going full single white female, like tearing me out of a photo and then gluing you and Lucas back together killed me. I remember thinking while we filmed it, like do we want to encourage girls to

set fires in their room? Like? Is that? So? How did you not set off the smoke detector in your house there? I definitely set a garbage fire in my bedroom before when I was a teenage girl. God, look, if you don't have a cold ring, if you don't have like a heavy bottomed vessel, you're asking for trouble. Yeah, oh yeah, for sure, No, I just did. My bedroom

was a fire hazard when I was a kid. I used to have those old that old heater that you turned like you turned on then it was those, but it was it was a portable radiator, you know, So like, just don't put in near the blankets. I definitely used to do things like dramatically burned notes or pictures or you know. And yeah, I would grab the metal garbage can from the bathroom and like do a little ceremony to I definitely once burned a bunch of after like

something went sideways, but I did it vague. So Fayard had to fire once because it's like suddenly we're in masterpiece theater. But yeah, but I did it outside. I was like, I'm gonna drag this thing out here. I'm gonna settle this on fire. I'm gonna watch it burn. It was. It was very um. It did kind of feel like the Craft, but it was therapeutic. That moment was going to be clearly like accurate teenage moment in

the whole plot, in the whole episode. It's like, I gotta burn this today, Like Peyton Strong, I'm done energy. We have to thank for the sex. Thanks killing favorite line ever, somebody put it on a T shirt and bring it to me. We have to remember it's all one day. So Peyton, like the night before the rehearsal dinner or whatever, it's like, I'm really gonna admit to Brook that I like Locuez and then she comes over and we're like in our bridal dresses. Still in Peyton

is like crying hard, like, Brook, don't leave me. I love you. I told you first. I'm not. I don't I don't want to be with him. It's you know, it's all yours. And then this episode happens, which we filmed three months later but was supposed to be like an exact match, and Peyton's like, you know what, I'm gonna burn this and then gonna go to the hospital. I'm gonna hunt your boyfriend, and then I'm gonna go

sit on his bed and talk about bands. Like the turn is so strong full, good for her, good for her many it's funny. It's funny to see when when it is so clear that there are devices that the writers need to move the story along, Like, no, it doesn't make sense that Peyton has that turn in twenty four hours. But to your point, we've been off the air all summer. It's September. We have to like get back in with the drama. And you know, even Joy you pointed out for Haley, like why is she up

on that bridge. Everybody's running to the river and Haley doesn't go, and it's like well, because they will. They liked the shop from the water to the bridge, so they made you stay up there so that they could keep cutting to that angle. It's just so out of character for Haley, I know, but like looking into the mud on either side of the river, like wasn't a good looking shot, So like that's a director's choice, and

it's so I don't know. That's one of the things that's so funny to me doing this when we get together every week and we just go like, oh man, there's so much that goes into the making of every episode of television but doesn't have anything to do with anything other than people's opinions about how television should be made. That was so hard doing that scene for me because of that, because I my every instinct in me wanted to tear the dress off, run down the side and

jump in the water. That felt like that's what but instead I just had to stand there screaming and running for help and asking other people to do things for me. And I was just saying to you guys when we were watching the episode, I was like, this is panic is so unnatural for me. I'm not a panicker. I go into a fight mode. I give into like how do we fix it? How do we fix it in the emergency? So the idea of having to just stand there and be panicked, I felt like it's just my

worst acting, so hard to do, no joy. But it's not. It's like we were filming it three months later. There's not a limo poken up out of the water. They just yell action and you're supposed to look at calm water and be like, Okay, I guess we're doing this. And also, didn't we just see kickboxing in the apartment where we just this is what I'm saying. It's not a character. She's a tough girl. Man, she would have

been in them. But you're right, it's just that's part of the device that what's what needed to be done in order to create the full realm of drama that they needed to get. Well perfect example of the makeover and Nathan and Hailey's a artment where as a bubble wall now bubbles, where did that come from? Like? Can

you imagine the tone meeting? You guys? Before every single episode, there's a tone meeting where all the heads of all the different departments get together and the you know, the writers and the director and everybody gets together like, these are the props we need. This is what we need the sets to look like. And somebody was like, so Nathan's going through some stuff and we really need him to see some bubbles like and quari um, but no fish,

just bubbles, just shot. Can you make you? Yeah? And then what we'll do is we'll put it under a giant mural of the London Bridge because it'll be a reminder of the drowning, but also of all the money they lost on a honeymoon they didn't yes, and they'll talk about it in the scene. That'll do it. You guys,

just hammer it hammered in, folks. It's just occurring to that we filmed this in the era of sky Mall, back when there was there was so all of our bosses were flying back and forth between a Los Angeles and will Be Did all the time, and it just occurred to me that someone got drunk on Skymall. What did that big? What do I do with this? Guys? I don't know Nathan Haley's apartment. Oh my god, I didn't. I loved that magazine. Yeah, where am I going to find my big statues? Now? So Brooke gives up on

Brooke and Lucas pretty pretty. I don't know, how do you feel about that? Does it feel like natural to you? That transition? You know? What I liked about it because look, I think there's a lot of stuff, you know, to your point, like Peyton turning in twenty four hours and going from I'm really sorry and I'm trying to be a good friend to like you wm gonna have sex

with your boyfriend, Like that's intense. I think. I think the swiftness of some of it, you know, from the end of one season to the beginning of another, can feel clunky. What I like that is the through line for Brooke here is that if you think about this is all happening, you know, in the course of twenty four hours, She's had this hugely emotional moment at the wedding and said, I need you to need me back. I need you to pick me like I need you to be in this relationship with me in the way

that I'm in this with you. And she has explained throughout season three that she's had to get over trust issues to be here. She's had to lean into the fact that she loves this person and is going to try but what I love is the point of maturity she comes to after the big feelings, after the crying, after the heartbreak of you know what, I'm not even going to hold this against you. You just don't choose me,

and I'm going to do. You say you love me, but your actions say something else, and I have to go on how your actions make me feel. I have to choose me, even you know, because I couldn't really remember what all the scripted dialogue was. You know, there's this big scene between Brook and Lucas in the bedroom and eventually, when she's talking, they use that device where he kind of can't hear her because he's overwhelmed and

he's thinking about what he should say. So so it goes into the voice over that Chad did in that scene. So I really watched and listened under his voice to hear what I was saying. And and it's all the examples of this happens, and you don't call me, You call Peyton, this happens, and you don't come to me, You go see Peyton, this happens, and you don't ask me to come here. When I get here, Payton's already here, like she's giving him all the reasons, and I love that.

I love that we're in the era where she's finally beginning to pick herself because she's said, like, I've stopped letting boys define me, but now she's actually acting that way. And I feel like she did that a bit with Felix to do remember when she was finally like letting

go of that. It was like, I I'm trying to remember the conversation that we all had about that, because it felt like one of the big Brooks turning moments of like why I'm I'm doing this because I'm bored, or like I just feel like I need attention, or but I don't want that. I want to be uh strong on my own, and so I don't want to. I don't want to. And then she know, she gets in with Lucas and a lot of those old feelings resurface, but it was it seemed like they were actually it

was just a deeper level of the same feeling. So she had sort of eradicated this like top layer of um easy to access feelings and issues with guys like Felix, and then with Lucas that was like the really deep stuff that you know, those are the roots of the things that actually keep growing up and creating problems. And so it was like an opportunity for her to really

dig down and like pop that root out. For those of you at home, you can't see I'm shoveling my minding a shop that we're we're talking about digging up

bulls here. I like him talking in that scene because because Okay, Brooke has had this conversation with Lucas how many times now, like a half a dozen times at least, if not a dozen, And by Chad having that voice over in that scene to me as the viewer and informed me that every single time Brooke has given him one of these speeches, he's got his own voice in his head and he's not listening to her. He's just like, how do I get out of this? It seems like

a lot. Why can't she just be cool? Like, oh no, I've messed up again? Brow Um, I think, but I think that's how boys work. I know, like that's how my kid works, that's how my husband works. It's just like, are you hearing what I'm saying? We're not going to buy any more Amazon packages, Like I'm not gonna have to deal with this again. Yes, And they say. It's like Lucas at the end, like I'm sorry. It's the only thing they can just say, I'm sorry. And you

know they don't hear us. Maybe you don't hear us, okay, which is that's I think I think Lucas did. I think that's you're right. That's what was nice about that voice over, because he did hear her at the end. It was like, Okay, I hear what you're saying. What you've been saying this whole time, and I guess you're right. It finally clicked that he was like, Okay, I guess there's nothing else for me to stay here. I can't

keep fighting the same battle. Yeah. Well, have you ever liked someone and then they've they've had to tell you like, hey, I know you think you like me? Um, you don't like that's a weird interaction. Yeah. Yeah. Well, And by the way, we've talked about this, like as kids being

so isolated. You know, Hillary you said in one of our episodes when you were like where everybody was kissing each other whatever, Like we joke about it, but there is a real reality that when you grow up in a small town or when you spend ten years in a really small town like we all did together. You're only around this small handful of people that you're around. So it's why it's like, you know, you hear people on Facebook talking about like, oh, well, you know, so

and so wound up married to that guy. But you remember in high school she dated this guy and he was with her sister, but they he's married to. Like

it's a very common thing in a small place. You just have this tiny pool and so what what what strikes me now is looking at Brooke and Lucas in this breakup, because she's standing up for herself and her worth, but also saying like you just don't care about me in the way you think you do and I deserve better, and like I'm not even gonna blame you for it.

I'm just going to be done. What I think is interesting about it is it it kind of like models how to have a healthy interaction when you kind of fall in love with one of your best friends and you try to date and then you go, you know what, I love you so much. We're better as friends and it's cool, like people do that and because who else are you going to try? And Dave, I know, but like truly, I you know, and obviously, look it's a teen drama. There's going to be drama that comes in

the coming episodes. But it is nice when we get to model like decent human interaction and just be like, it's cool. You know, when you love somebody, sometimes you give it a try and if it doesn't work out, move on and be nice to each other. Like how lovely. Such a nice interaction for high schoolers when when there is usually so much drama. I mean high schoolers, people

in their twenties. My god, don't we have friends going through Even Still, I can see why Lucas is attracted to Brooke, particularly because of this frankness, because we see the exact same um personality in his mother, who has to have this very awkward interaction with Dan, who handles it clearly and with grace, and she's like, I do not want to have coffee with you because I am giving up coffee in my pregnancy. And I do not want to see a movie with you because I do

not want to spend time with you. And I'm not going to be a bit I'm not going to kick and scream. I'm just going to say it clearly to your face. You can absorb it however you want. And to see the parallel between Brooke and Karen is great. Karen was so clear and so it was you know Dan looking It was just it was so easy to see through him looking for friendship in her. And I love that she saw straight through it. Yeah, because he goes to strangle his wife five minutes later. Yeah, she

knows who he is. And what I really love is that she sees through him in this moment of vulnerability where any of us would excuse her leaning on him first port not knowing what he's doing to dib you know, like you if they did that storyline, you'd get it. But she stands up and says, no, thank you, I know you. And then at the end of the episode is so vulnerable with Lucas. I don't I didn't remember hearing that when he said, how did you get over it that he didn't love you? And she said, I'll

let you know when I do. MU like that took my breath away to be able to be so frank about how a heartbreak of that nature, like a betrayal that deep, is something you don't get over. It changes you. And then there's the before in the after, and and it's continually thrown in her face. That's the thing. I mean, it might be easier to get over if you could really walk away and never see the person again and move on with your life and have any experiences. But

it's just thrown in her face every single day. And even though she knows it's not her, it's he's a psychopath, it's still there's just something about not being acknowledged, not being told like, hey, good job, Hey I appreciate you, Hey, I'm here to help all of those things. I mean, yeah, that's it's hard to just get over, Like, how do

you just get over it? You can't. And when it's continually thrown in her face, when it's continually brought up, when it's when it's shoved at her all the time for twenty years, and no matter how she reacts to it, people tell her she's reacting wrong. It's a it's a wild thing to put on somebody. And you know what else, when you're the type of person that continually gives people

the benefit of the doubt. I because I'm one of those people, and I M hmm, it's it can be exhausting when dealing with people who I know are going to uh let me down as the wrong word because I don't know, the concept of expectations and relationships is big, but who I know. The choice they're gonna make, they always make the same choice. It's always going to be the same thing. And yet I'm still I'm still surprised when it happens, because because you can't just let it go,

you still are like maybe this time. Well, the thing is you can't let something go that is continually coming for you, that is forcing you to engage with it, even when you say I don't want to engage with this anymore, and it continues to happen. What I think is frustrating. And I know we all have personal experience with this is Look, we're frank, we're blunt, We've learned lessons, we share about them. We have a podcast like that, this is what we do. Hello, that's why we're here.

But then when you when you continually get engaged with on a subject that you want to move on from, and then every time you try to, well, I'll tell a joke about out it, or maybe I'll offer a nugget of wisdom, or maybe you know, I'll say, like why are you really talking about this? And no matter what they tell you, the answer is wrong. That's hard. And so what I think is really cool about this

is you get to see it with Karen. So often it's her having to deal with Dan, and it's she has to react to him, she has to put him in his place, she has to rebut his advances. But that's why I think that this scene with her and Lucas is so cool. Because Dan's not there, Lucas actually gets to be the safe space for her to say, oh no, that changed me forever, and and and the unsaid thing. But that is in Moira's performance because she's

such a good actress. Is I will not like, yes, it hurt me, but like I've drawn a boundary and it's so yeah, I'm not trying to fix it anymore. Go yeah, it's cool. Hard things to do. Do you wonder if there were years when Lucas was like three four years old, were thought maybe she could still fix it,

do you know what I mean? We don't pick up in the story until the kids are what sixteen years old, and so there's there's a lot inferred in that statement because it's not like he ditched her at eighteen and she never cared again, you know, like, yeah, it requires a lot of vulnerability to live in that space of just letting a problem exist and continue to exist. You

know what's wild about what you're saying. And I've never thought about this before, but we're kind of being offered a version of that, Like, look back at what it might have felt like for Karen at seventeen to have this happened to her. With how Rachel feels with Cooper, you see the seventeen year old girl. Anything I can do to keep you? Isn't there anything any thing I

can't live without you? Like, oh my god. Yeah. I want to talk about Daniel too in this because she had finally she's finally been given some like real meat on the bones in this show, whereas she's been expected to do a lot of standing around and being pretty and snarky and you know, having a few meaningful sincere conversations, but she's never been given the challenge of just really

coming undone beautiful. It is. It is, and she's so because we've we've praised her for all of her skill in those other areas, and it's just so nice to see the full roundedness of her abilities and in the vulnerability and in this performance, I mean, her breakdown is so beautiful and that that like raw heartache. To be vulnerable like that with someone, it's such a special thing

to watch. And yeah, it's it's so gorgeous, and she feels more like an actual teenager then she's ever felt like you see the reveal, you see why Cooper believed that she was twenty six, and you see it, she's just seventeen, little girl. Anything is supposed to illustrate why teenagers should not be dating grown ups. It is this like it is because you are not your brain isn't

in the same place. Because for her, it is apocalyptic to be dune and he is so you know, you get older and you realize that all the things you thought we're gonna kill you aren't gonna kill you anymore. And so for him, he's like a breakup. Okay, like we're good, um, And yeah, this is don't date grown ups. Kids, don't do that because it's so messy and you will be sad, you will, it's gonna go sideways. Yeah, what I love is as messy as that is, and as

as beautifully as she played that with him. I love that the the parallels of these breakups that they're going through or what finally let the Brachel of it. Yeah, yeah, that's where I was going Nextel I love it storming into the room and talking about how horrible the hospital gowns there. We're gonna fix everything, and here's your keys, and I got you some clothes, and I was like, oh, I missed this. These two are so fun together. You know. Rachel asked a question to Brook in that room that

I thought was really interesting. Do you think people can really change? And I don't know. I thought we should talk about that because I do. But I guess we have to define change. I mean, I think some people can just the same way to change, mean though, like just changing your behavior is it? Like? But I mean, you're always gonna if you're good at math, you're always going to be good at math. It's not like, like, what are the things the fundamental things that people are

referring to when they say change. Well, you know who I think really answers that question beautifully as mouth because here's what we know. Look, we were alive at a time where we've got you know, this this generation of all this incredible research and mental health data, and we understand trauma and even how it can be passed down in our d n A. You know, like we now have proof of a lot of the things people have felt and mouth says it. He says, you can only change,

but by facing what you've done. You really have to look at the things you carry shame about or the people that you've hurt, and you have to be willing to go back into those actions, back into the behaviors that you want to change in yourself and own. But by the way, not only how you might have heard other people or let yourself down, you also have to forgive yourself. Like it's a it's a total kind of

excavation that's required. And when you go back and you unravel the hauntings, when you go back and you see why you were trying to be validated in the way you were because you had a pain point. When you go back and you really untangled or not, you can move forward and have different reactions, not be triggered, not

use the same crutches. You know. It's it's like it's like for people who get sober, it requires a lot of untangling and then you can live differently and I I love that Mouth is like our little oracle in this episode, because Brooke has told Lucas what she needs different, what she needs to be different in their relationship, and he hasn't changed. So she's speaking from her own pain point of like, yeah, I kind of thought you could, but I don't think so, And she doesn't quite know

what Rachel is asking. She doesn't know Rachel's asking can I change? Can I be better? And Mouth it seems to me, really sees through it and says like, look, you either do the work and then you can do whatever you want, or you don't and you'll repeat your mistakes forever. Yeah. Yeah, because he was saying you can change, it's just that most people don't. Most people aren't willing to do the work. They run from the work. And he says, don't don't run. Its rippling. I mean, it

is crippling that work. It's so scary, it's terrifying. It's no joke. But if you're going to like actually make a dent in character flaws that are rooted from childhood, by scary, but you really you have to be willing to look at the ways you haven't measured up to your goals. Or standards. You have to be willing, you know, listen, Like we talked about this as women and what we went through, like when when women have to go, how how did I in my own actions? You know, how

have we collectively? How have we upheld patriarchy? Like how have we as women upheld the systems that hurt us as women? And how do we excuse them? Like that's not easy. It's why so many people continue to say no, no, no, This thing that I do is the solution. This you know, this institution that I'm a part of is the fixer. It's like, so in a way, we have to do this.

We have to do that work you're talking about on a personal level, and we have to be willing to understand the way that our personal behavior and the behavior of our communities has to do it on a systemic level. And like that is a challenge when people are tired and just trying to figure out, like how to pay the rent and put food on the table, Like it's a lot the change comes from from has to come from a sincere desire and it's not just because somebody

tells you to do it. And I think you nailed it with having to forgive yourself too, and you know, being able to look back and that's a that's a big bite to take. Yeah, this is why I still am on team Senator Marvin McFadden. You know, you know he's always known things. I like that we saw more of the boys in this episode. You can see that they're going to populate our world more with the River Cork guys. His mouth is here, Skills is now asking to be on the basketball team. We've got junk with

the shaved head. What what the hell was another job? What job did Colin have over the summer two thousand six? Colin Moss? Someone tells us what he was up to. I like that they're doing that. You know, so many of our problems have been so adult and when we're all together as kids, like we know that we only have what two seasons of it left of like being kids. Was Skills not at the wedding? Was he not there? Because he comes in and talk to Lucas and it's

all like heard through Bevan, heard through Bevan. Oh yeah, why wasn't he at the wedding? I don't know. Antoine might have been working on something too. Sometimes it's just scheduling stuff you know, Yeah, I wonder if he had a job at the end of season three. Also, I'm so excited that we're going to get skills more in our school world and see him on the two Finally, Like my theory of things, Junk is in community college, do you know what I mean? I don't think goes

to school with us. I think he graduated like three years ago and was the kid that bought everybody beer as a maybe what I'm saying, well, especially if the boys all grew up playing together, it's like, it's not real life that kids in a neighborhood are all in the same grade. Literally never hung out with kids in my grade. So you know, yeah, that's my that's my theory. I'm sticking to it. Yeah, And I like that, you know, if that's sort of the lens we're looking at this through.

I also like that Else talks about how he wants to get on the team because he wants a scholarship, like he wants he wants to be able to go to college. You know. I like the reminder that not all of these kids are affluent. Well, and that's so that was a big conversation this episode. Haley got into Stanford, like Lucas has gotten into what U n C, but he wants to go to school close by so he

can help his mom with her baby. Like, these are all the conversations that kids legitimately have that are scary. It's even scarier when you don't have a grown up that is really guiding you and you're just kind of having to bring it for yourself. Yeah, what is what is is Peyton going to college? Do we have? Was there a moment where we try to figure that out?

I was always so confused about that because it was a little miss like like when I was in high school, I was in every single club ever because I was like, I am getting the out of Virginia. I am going to New York City. I'm gonna apply to every school in the city and just go to the one that gives me the most money. And that's what I did. Yeah, the idea that Peyton is just like I don't know, man, I don't know. I might end up in l A, I might stay here. I don't have a job, Like

has Peyton never had a job? I don't know? Like you know, that actually is a great point, Hillary that it's never occurred to me. But it does seem really out of character for Peyton not to be incredibly driven and have a like she's like floating around. Well she she looks she opened up a club, she did, like, she does have this vision with music. So that's okay, that's a big deal. That's a really big deal. Actually,

so I guess that's her job. I mean, do you think maybe the I wonder if there's a little bit of that that naturally comes out of a writer's room, because everybody who works in our industry got degrees doing things that have nothing to do with the jobs they get. Yeah, for sure, you know, And so I wonder if if maybe it's less top of mind. But then they're talking so much about it for the other kids. I don't know.

It's a really it is really weird. Peyton should have joined Peace Corps, you know what I mean, Like my best friend joined Peace Corps and went to Morocco for a while. That would track like far off land trying to help people that would have landed. Um, And like no one did anyone join the military? Did anyone? I'm just trying to think of with the kids that I grew up with actually did And I don't know your brother was right, Derek, not Derek, the real Derek, not Psycho. Yeah,

he was a marine, that's right. Yeah, it's a weird it's a weird deal that Peyton was like absolutely directionless, given she's raised herself essentially that her father is so work work, work, yes, but also so involved, like when he gives you advice, he's he seems that education seems like one of the one of the core dad things to communicate. Yeah, that feels like Larry energy. It's weird.

I could see like Peyton going to vocational school, right, Like if Peyton had gone to learn how to run a soundboard or like, like you know, we had VOTECH when I was growing up, and it was all how to run a camera and there was the beautician school and there was like electrician school. Payton could have gone to votech that would have been cool. What would she have done? What would you want to paint to do?

When I was growing up, there were the kids that would leave school halfway through the day to go to votech and they learned how to run camera equipment and soundboards and like like do film for the local cable access station. And I thought that was the coolest ever like cable Access TV, you know, run in this webcam. She should absolutely be going and getting a you know,

a vocational degree somewhere. It is weird, but I like hearing the different levels of college interests from our our kids, like Hailey shooting for the Moon with Stanford and she did it. It's awesome. Lucas is going on the merit of his academics and then skills is just like, no, listen, I will go to any school there is, but I just I want to get out. I want to I want to try my hand at this um. That felt accurate. Does Brooke talk about college? What did Brooke do? I

don't think she does. I mean she's so focused on design that UM I think you like F I T or something. I don't remember because we senior year the thing we skip college, so I don't remember. If she says she's going somewhere, I feel like she just goes to New York and does her her line. That's all anybody was talking about senior year, besides who was sleeping with each other was where are you going to college? What you know? What school are you trying to get into?

That's really funny that we never it just is barely on our all of our radar except for the Guidance Counselor episode. We did have one in entire episode dedicated to seriousness Councilor. Peyton did talk about college once she was looking at the school in Savannah, so had she stayed with really makes sense with Jake, I mean, now what am I gonna do? Which boy am I going

to follow? Now? Um? Nathan? Let's talk about Nathan for a second, because he's clearly dealing with some serious PTSD and I think we're all a little unclear like what this bad dream means. But it has been literally bubbling up for two episodes, pun bubbling s What I did there? Um? What the is going on? I don't know. I feel like I missed something. It's very tricky because obviously, like nearly drowning and nearly losing family members in an accident

like that would of course be traumatic. What I think smells a little fishy to me is that he's having these flashbacks that are like mysterious and unexplained. But it seems like the device is everyone's telling him is he's a hero, and he doesn't think he is. He is beginning to communicate that he was drowning and scared, and then you see Cooper open his eyes, and it's like, did Cooper actually rescue everyone? And even if that's true, why would we shame a teenage boy about that? Like,

I'm just confused. I don't know. I just think, like, what are what are they getting at? Like what are they going to reveal? And and and why why does he seem to recoil at You're a hero and then flashback to being trapped, Like I'm just like, what's going on here? Like this was scary and horrible. It wasn't just flashbacks. He had had visions of this before the wedding even happened. Wait he did. Yeah, that's right, that's

right that the dream was having. So this is it's been going on for a while, guys, and he's just he's realizing he's psychic. He's got water trauma, and I don't understand the water trauma. Um, you know, I think it's reasonable to say that Nathan's got PTSD and that teenage boys who experienced trauma are not treated you know, they're rewarded for being real tough about it, but they're

not treated as like vulnerable little animals. Um, but I don't. Yeah, I just don't understand the water device, and they keep coming back to it over and over and it's like the only thing they're giving James to do. So maybe that's why it feels weird to me. I'm just like, what is going on here? What you're going to find out? I bet they'll tell us San, I mean maybe, or it could disappear into the miss it we don't get,

you know, don't get your hope. I was gonna say, last question, Uh, Peyton finds out she has a long lost sibling. M if you were to find out that you had a long lost sibling, who would you hope it would be? Uh? Oh gosh, oh man, No, like you mean it has to your you need like a you want like a celebrity name, or like a like a sports figure, like some kind of about someone we don't know. But then I'm just gonna have like way more questions. You're gonna be like, it's this chick Sally.

You guys don't know it. But I really wanted to be my sister. Sorry my barista, let me tell you. I love it. Who would be cool to haven't I kind of wanted an older brother I guess I feel like I always wanted an older brother. I feel like that would have solved a lot of my problems with men if I had an older brother. I feel that strongly as well, Like, yeah, I see Guss with George and I'm like, that looks cool, like that that seems

like a nice relationship. Yeah, it's funny. I um. The person who immediately popped in my head made me laugh and I was like, oh, man, Like, you know, it's November one, We're eight days from the midterm elections concluding. I'm obviously very stressed about it. And I was like, oh,

this is hilarious. Like the first person who popped in my mind was Adam Kinsinger, and I'm like, what I would give to have like a dope older brother who's like leading the charge for democracy and like fighting back, but who technically comes from the other side of the aisle, Like wouldn't that be so healing? And he would have someone you would have a buddy, you guys would just

be on the courtyard. No. I just admire him so much, and like as a dad and as a veteran and as as you know, somebody who's done what he's done on the committee, um, you know, for for January six, Like he just shows up and he's like, what are we doing about America? And I'm like that's exactly how I feel, so yeah, and it's like that would just be so cool. And then as soon as I like I saw his face and you asked the question, I started laughing at myself. I was like, oh my god,

I need to rest. I think I had a first reaction too, but I didn't say it. I kind of have a huge girl crush on Cape Middleton and I would love you know, she's a huge, one true fan. That's what we were told. I don't need someone to validate that. You don't remember just like I love her so much, I will I just like I look at her fashion, Like I scroll on Instagram and I'm like, look how great. She's such a great dresser, she's such

a good speaker. It's like it's like the girl and me, the Jersey kid that always felt scrappy and like, I'll meet you in and Ali and Terry Len from one and I could like, you know, I can like clean up and get in the dirt. And then I look at a woman like that and I'm like wouldn't it be so nice to be elegant? God, that's so lovely. What if she is a nightmare in her own little castle, Like, what if that is all just spoken mirrors and she is sweatpants city Joy. That's the version I want to

I bet she is. We can send a j suit. I bet she would listen. All I was saying is I can't remember who told us back in the day, but like we did get the word when we were doing the show that she was a big fan. So Joy had to reach for you. Hey, call me up, Kate, Hillary, who's your who's your person? Um? When I was young, I really wanted RuPaul to like be my older brother.

I was really like, I just I just thought about, like all the holidays you have to do with your family and all of the I felt like moving and like hard things, like there's a hard you have to do with your family, And I just thought, what would

make all of these experiences better? And it Okay, I didn't grow up with but what I can say is that, you know, growing up in l A where I did, and like all the all the creative folks I got to work with at my dad's studio, I have not like an actual uncle, but you know a dear family friend of my parents who has been my uncle Jeff

for my whole life. It's just like fabulous makeup artist was like always doing shoots with my dad and so you know, I'd go, oh man, all of them, and I would like go visited the studio after school and like go say hi to everybody. And I was always so excited to see Uncle Jeff and he'd be like, don't tell your parents would put some eyeline around you and I was like yes, yes. And Jeff's partner Winston, I mean, god, they've been together for like forty years now.

Winston did drag every weekend as Diana Ross just this like stunningly beautiful black man who would do the full I mean the wigs and the glitter, like the outfits. And it made everything more fun, right, my god, fun, So like I didn't grow up with RuPaul, but I did grow up with a drag queen. And let me tell you what, everything was so much more fun great, like so much more fun. Thank you for validating that inner gut feeling that I've had. You know, I would

make this better drag. It makes everything that way. You guys, I had to go. I had to go to a memorial the other day and I passed a drag bar. Why are there not drag queens running moving companies except baby Drag? Hello, seriously the funnest moves of your life, or or just like like rent a date so I can take you to functions with me. I had to go to a memorial the other day and I was

really really really upset about it. And Jeff and I got out of the car a few blocks away and we're walking to the venue and we passed this drag bar and it was just joy out on the sidewalk. It was everyone was singing together, everyone was dancing. There were so many feather boas. It was glamoraly ever and it puts such a huge smile on my face and I was just like, this is the energy I want everywhere. More drag please, more drag please? Can we get Rupaula

on the show? Can we speak that into existence? I think he let's talk about is an honorary drama please? Absolutely. I just got sweaty at that signest. Okay, guys, for our listeners at home, any of you who work on Drag Race and or have friends who work on drag Race. Please d mu hi. It's Bethany Frankel. My time on The Wheelhousewives of New York is a few years behind me, and now I'm ready to put the wheel back into the reel Housewives. That's where my new podcast Rewives comes in.

Isn't your typical rewatch podcast. I'm watching only the most iconic episodes from all cities. I'm sharing never before heard stories of what happened behind the scenes, and I'm not just pulling in cast members for postgame analysis. I'm doing something a little bit more interesting. If you've ever seen an episode of The wheelhouse Wives, you know the drill. But beyond throwing drinks and legs, there are lessons about marriage, divorce, friendship, money, parenting,

and faith. If you have the right minds, analyze and dig deeper. So I'm bringing on unexpected thought leaders and celebrities to get their take on the chaos this season. I sit down with Elizabeth Moss, Kevin Neal and Susie Orman, Griffin Johnson and more. You think that there isn't much to learn from flipping tables and yanking wigs, but that's where you're wrong. Listen to rewives with Bethany Frankel on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you

get your favorite podcasts. We have a fan question. Okay, hey Lenia, She says, do you feel like Lucas and Peyton's kiss after she was shot betrayed? Bro Um, No, she thought she was gonna die. I don't even think she thought she was going to die. I think it's just it's, uh, it's trauma bonding, right, It's like, I'm scared. I'm so, so so scared right now. I would kiss anybody literally if I thought, you know, yeah, I guess I probably would. Yeah. Yeah. I mean Sophie is like, no,

that's because you know what I was gonna say. I was gonna say. I think there's levels of how we judge and like, yeah, look, I think Bass, you shouldn't kiss your best friend's boyfriend. I think that's true. I also think about the circumstance. I also think about the need for drama on a TV show, because if all the characters are happy all the time and never have conflict,

you're going to do three episodes and get canceled. So it's like there's a bunch of that and I and I think I think this kind of relates to what we were saying before about how you really have to look in and do the work. And you know, I would hope for our patent that she could go, yeah, that wasn't my best moment. And also, I'm going to give myself a ton of grace. I thought I was going to die, Like I can apologize and also not move through my life carrying that guilt, and both of

those things can be true. And my fear is that we, you know, so much of our life happens in two D now, like everything's on a screen. Everything's a flat picture everything. We want everything to be black and white, and nothing is. And so it's like, I think we need to ask questions like this, but I think we need to give ourselves permission and to not be so reductive to just have like a yes or no answer. I think we have to realize that if we want to grow, a whole bunch of things can be true.

At the same time, she can be sorry and not deserve to be punished and be forgiven. And that's that's a different conversation that feels like he's also, my characters on our show are so bad A further explanations like yes, you hear the word kiss and it's like, you guys made out for seven hours. You hooked. Literally it was like the shortest, driest peck kiss on the through tears, like it wasn't sexy, it was. She was in Brooks mind.

She said, you guys kissed, your tongue is touched. That's ridiculous. Um Our characters are not good at follow up questions, because it's all it was the same thing when like Haley and um Chris Keller kissed, Like in Nathan's mind, he's like, you guys kissed, and then we see it and we're like, y, open your mouth the name of this episode. Open your mouth, open your mouth. Disgusting you guys. I'm telling you we're getting into We're getting into after

hours talks. We should spend a wheel. We gotta out here. There's not there's not even out all involved in this one. Today. It's morning. It's morning. It's morning, Okay. Who is most likely to completely lose it on a roller coaster? Does that mean lose it with glee or terror or barf? Like it's terror and barfing? Uh yeah, so who Who's Who's the chicken? Of the bunch. I feel like Skills

has some surprising fears. I feel like I can see him getting really nauseous, but he reves just to get like Bevan's attention, Like he's like, act scared so she'll protect me. Um, it's Dan the loss of control. Yeah, that I mean, like when I think about sensations, I don't like an amusement parks that Hollywood Tower of Terror. I don't like the feeling of falling and yeah, and so I can see Dan like a person like Dan being like I don't want to be in this chair.

I don't want to be in this chair. Give me out of this chair. That makes sense. Yeah, but wait, does that mean it's me in real life? No, guys, I'm cool. I don't freak out. I'm fine. I swearing. Don't look at me. Who was the last roller coaster

you went on? I don't really go So I did the Cyclone of Coney Island when I was nineteen, and that thinks like eight thousand years old, and really it's like super rickety and I was in the last part of it that constantly feels like it's going to go off the tracks, and it could be different in the twenty years since I've done that, But um, I I'm not convinced that roller coasters are well cared for and

I that's not how I want to go. Guys. I had a phase where I just like really loved them, and I think being a kid in southern California, it was like so easy to go to Universal or six Flags, like everything's close, and I don't know, remember years ago there was like some amusement park I think on the East Coast and that lady got decapitated. You know what,

I think I'm good. I don't think I'm done. Literally, my business partner Liz produced the documentary class Action Parts, and I'm like, yeah, or when they get stuck upside down? Something clicked for me where I'm like, when you do something that is considered to be more dangerous than just like walking through the world on a daily basis, and you've done it so many times, like you've got maybe even like a little addicted to the adrenaline and you

were fine so many times, like maybe you're good. You were jumping out of airplanes and Sophia I was real frustrated with that. I was like, why is she tempting fate? I like if I was stressed, I'd be like, you know what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna drive an hour and jump out of an airplane because something happens when you do that, and everything like clicks back into place. And then I was like I could go for like a hike or meditate, like in the safety of my

own home. I just I did it so many times that I was like, I'm not going to push my luck anymore. I'm good. Yeah, yeah, there's something about tempting fate. I don't know. I had a I had a boyfriend get really upset with me once because he had planned a sunrise hot air balloon ride past Mexico in New Mexico. It was going to be gorgeous, but I was like, I can't, Like I'm a single mom. I'm like I'm the only one, Like I can't. I can't, like I can't die. You don't understand that I actually can't die

right now. I grew up in the house that was like everything's going to kill you. If everything's gonna kill you, including roller coasters, including hot air balloons and jumping out of an airplane, don't be ridiculous. Read a book so don't ridiculous read a book is what I want in the book fair at my eventual children's school to be called to it. All right, Well, now we'll triggered some stuff. Thanks a lot that's going on next week, next week, guys.

Oh man, I don't know what to expect with this title, Season four, Episode two Things I Forgot at Birth. We really do have a scheme of having to go back and examine our So I guess we're in for a ride and we'll see you guys. Uh, we'll see you there, but see if by Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio dot com.

See you next time. We are all about that high school drama, Girl Drama Girl, all about them high school queens Forever. We'll take you for a ride at our comic girl Cheering father right Drama Queens Girl Fashion. But you'll tough, girl, you could sit with us Girl Drama Queens, Drama, Queens, Drama, Queen's Drama of the Queen's Drama, Queens