First of all, you don't know me.
We all about that high school drama. Girl, drama girl, all about them.
High school queens. We'll take you for a ride. And our comic girl cheered for the right teams.
Drama Queens girl fashion, but your tough girl, you could sit with us.
Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Quise Drama, Queens Drama, Drama, Queens Drama Queens.
Hey, you guys, remember when Liquid IV became a sponsor of Drama Queens and Suntauts A whole bunch of Liquid IV. Thankfully, I brought a bottle of it within down to record because I need to hydrate after this episode. It was massive. I love it. I love it.
I loved it too. This was wild. It was jam packed. This is maybe the first time that we've done a podcast where I'm concerned we might not have enough time to get to everything.
Yeah, this was packed. This episode was wild.
I mean, I loved it. I freing loved this episode. And you know that's hard for me to say because Valdemore wrote it and directed it, and so it is worth noting that sometimes someone who's truly awful can make fantastic things, and this episode is one of them. It's a fucking bop man. I love it.
Yeah, I really did too, every second.
Every second, and I mean talk about starting on a high note, opening on Jackson singing our theme song and then realizing he's singing with Gavin de Gras.
I die. My heart exploded and fell onto the floor. It was a great setup for how the whole episode was was gonna go. There was something a little avant garde about everything. The fact that that was a completely out of time, out of space moment. Gavin and Jamie are never going to meet. That's not a thing that's ever gonna happen in the universe of One Tree Hill.
Gavin's not even like a character on our show. Yes, betting it up with my setting it up with that combination that was just had nothing to do with any storyline, but felt so dropped into the heart of our show immediately.
It was so sweet.
And then into Luke and the bar with the cut cut cut cut, Yeah, and even Joe the Dog.
You know, we just celebrated our twentieth anniversary, and of all of the retrospectives that were written about our show, the one you know that was in like variety was the craziest things that happened on One Tree Hill. Like everybody else when their show hits a milestone, gets love letters, and we get you know, the can you believe they
did this? And for me, we got made fun of so much over the tenure of our show, whether it was On The Soup or any other show, or like other shows picking on us, we were always the one that was picked on, and so at a certain point we just started owning it. And I love this surrealist scene where to your point, like like Jamie's never gonna hang out by himself in the red bedroom record studio
space and hang out with this like traveling musician. We just kind of threw our hands up at this points the end of season five and we're like, we're just gonna do whatever we like. Bye, and thank god for those of you at home that came along for the ride, and we're in on the joke, like, thank you guys for supporting it, because you know, we felt not necessarily supported by the media, but supported by our fans, and obviously that has longer staying power.
Clearly, Yeah, you guys are the best. This is It's an amazing ride. I did not know that was Joe the Dog. I thought it was a goat.
What time joy? We lived with that dog in base camp for a year.
I don't know what. I just saw it and my brain said, why iSER a goat in a bar? I just was like, Hey, it's fitting great, let's keep going.
That drunk montage was perfect. It was just very funny, perfect, how fun for Chad. He was wonderful in this episode.
Yeah, I his acting kind of went to another level this season. I don't know if I know he was taking classes in LA I think he went to Larry Moss for a while, and I don't know if that was before or after whatever, but I remember him talking about that, and I just feel like there was something showing up, like he was dropped into his body a lot, a lot more than I had seen even before. He was great in this really still like this is not an energy I feel like I'm used to from Lucas anyway.
It's crazy how similar he is to like Keith in this episode, right, except everywhere that Keith zigged, Lucas is gonna zag. And Yeah, seeing him in the moment making choices was interesting.
I feel like they also gave him material that like felt a little more real and human, like everything Lucas has been going through. He's less of an archetype of you know, the poet, the hero, and he's a guy. He's a guy who's struggling. And I feel like, yeah, to your point, Joy, it's like you get to see him, You see Chad as an actor having things to bring in, and like even the montage that they shot of him at the bar, he looks like himself. He doesn't look
like he's playing another person. Yeah, you know, like he's wearing his own hat and his own sunglasses and like it's like funny, it feels really.
Real, own dog, his own dog. Like I don't know, people at home might not know who Joe is.
Ah, Joe good point, epic dog. He was our mascot. He was like our trailer mascot.
Joe was a really good dog, really good dog. And I think that's how I met Chad. It was like who has a dog run around base camp? Oh it's this guy, you know. Yeah, that was his bait when he was talking to chicks like, oh if you met my dog? I Yeah. There was so much of There were so many Easter eggs in this episode, like Joe like members of our crew popping up. I just felt like it was a yearbook, Like it just feels warm and fuzzy, like the end of the school year.
That's great, it was totally a yearbook. Yes, seeing our crew in the scenes with mouth in the end, I feel like there were always crew jumping in as extras in the hospital scenes, whenever people are walking around.
It's exactly that we're so used to seeing people passing by, But there was something even about like Scott Hardwick and Jim Nelson being in the news station like they felt like characters. They had things to do, they weren't just walking by in the background filling in and it. Yeah, everything does feel a little surrealist. Gavin and Jackson and all of those people and Joe and all. I don't know, it's like we brought some things in because we just wanted to.
I guess it was like the River Court, Nathan Lucas and Hayley about, you know, getting more of that best friend energy. The rooftop again. Yeah, we saw the water balloons. Yeah, the water balloons. I mean, oh my gosh, okay, do should we go in order?
Or let's go in order? Guys. It's so much we're never gonna fit it in.
Oh my god, you guys, we haven't even given people the synopsis.
Oh my gosh, we're keeping to do this. Okay, Sophia, you've been out, so you read the synopsis. Okay, okay.
Episode five eighteen, What Comes After the Blues originally aired May nineteenth, two thousand and eight. Angie is heading back to her family, which obviously liaves Brooke devastated. Lucas deals with the fallout of his actions following his Game night scuffle. Haley has a musical breakthrough, and Peyton is reeling from the blow of Lucas saying that he hates her. Nathan and Jamie their fears together. It's not written into the synopsis, but also Mouth and Milly have such good stuff in
this episode. Mouth struggling with the blowback of being a human and Milly being such an incredibly supportive partner. Yes, yeah, and like Dan's waiting on a heart. This is a very short synopsis. This feels weird, but there's a lot for us to talk about.
Clearly.
I mean, this whole episode could have been a whole season of a show today, Like normally we do like six to eight episodes Now this whole episode could have been six to eight episode.
They just stretched it all out. Yeah. I was obsessed with this opening montage, not just chat at the bar drinking, but the girl scouts the water balloon, the table with the old men playing chess, Milly walking through the street with her high heels and the balloons just missing her and she just keeps plowing through. It was so good.
Yeah, yeah, it was precision Mantai. It was gorgeous.
Let's talk about Peyton on the roof girl.
I had no idea when we were watching the balloons that it was Peyton. You did time. I'm thinking it was like Shamie or like Luke It. Yeah, I thought it was like somebody else.
I thought he was up there drowning his feelings, taking chops, throwing water balloons.
People, and it was and hates everyone.
Oh listen, at least she's not self sabotaging anymore. Now, she's just community sabotaging, which feels like a healthy evolution.
But it's like with bubbles like this. Yeah, the most innocent. I wrote this on her version of being angry and angsty. But it's so innocent. It's the it's the I'm not actually trying to hurt anybody. I just am mad and this is a safe way for me to take it out on everyone, which feels nice after everything we've walked through with Peyton over the years and seen her in a genuinely dark places.
It's the true definition of emo. It's like, I'm mad, but I'm harmless. I just I remember filming everything but the water balloons. You guys, like all the stuff with us in the recording studio, I totally remember. I remember all the stuff with Chad, like all of that like it was yesterday, And somehow the water balloons escaped me. And that was one of my favorite parts of this episode. They were aggressive throws, were how.
Are you going to attack a bunch of girl scouts? Honestly, I loved it.
Ess.
I just thought the whole montage was so so good, and the slow mo is used so effectively in this episode, like all those sweet little girl scouts getting hit with those balloons. And then later if we fast forward when when Jamie's in his little water wings, like there's something about these these moments happening in slow motion. I don't know, I've really really liked it.
The girl scout uniform is even a call back to season one when Tim and Nathan do the Little Girl Scout dare Knight Challenge. You know, was that one or two? So many little easter eggs, Let's see.
If we can find them all.
The fans are gonna know if we miss some, they're gonna be like guys.
Seeing things the whole way the montage went. I loved that they let that whole song play out and really let us catch up without having to hear anything but music, Like even Debin Skills right, the soundtrack in this episode was so good. Deben Skills being on the sneak, you know you said it. Millie walking through the water ballons unfazed, like that gave me When I was thinking it was Lucas, I was like, oh, he must have been up there for days. Like she just doesn't even care at this point,
She's used to walking into work to this. And Lisa just looks so good in that scene. She has this like hilarious confidence about her her her physicality is like simultaneously very elegant and very funny. And then you have that cut talk about physicality to James, like double dribbling two basketballs through the gym, Hillary, are you okay?
No, sports, I listen, We're gonna get to the sports of it all, okay, because that was beyond sports. That was like a spiritual experience seeing him dribble two basketballs at the same time. What in the hell we had like big Wes Anderson energy.
Yes, oh good call, Yes, yes, loved it.
Lisa needs to be in a Wes Anderson movie.
She's just so plucky.
And then I love that it comes out of the music on Jamie looking at Lucas saying I think you drink too much, and then.
The reveal, which is a great call back to him saying it to his dad at the beginning of the seasons. I forgot about that tick egg.
It is so good. I think you drink too much. And the mohawk. The mohawk is memory so funny.
What was that about. Did Chad just want to cut his hair? Like?
It must have been right? But I mean at that point we were all like having to ask permission for every little thing, so I think, yeah, yeah, he probably wanted to cut his hair, right.
I think he looked great. I loved the haircut.
I never shaved anybody's head before. That was my first, really someone's head. Yeah, it was really nervous.
Ye.
Well and on.
Camera, you know, one take, baby, one take.
It was fun though.
That was a sweet scene between you guys.
I like the quotes. We have lots of quotes in this episode too, and well, I think if we go in order, then the first one here is Nathan saying the darkness doesn't have any answers. Luke. Yeah, I thought that was that was really nice. It also felt like a bit of a callback to season one when we were there were all these sort of epic poetic quotes throughout this throughout the season, Yeah, and they gradually got less and less. Is that we just had more storylines
and more people to fill. But I liked there's a few really good ones in here.
Well. I felt the ghost of Keith all over this episode, and that is absolutely that something something that Keith would have said to Lucas, like leaning over the hood of a car, right, just the darkness doesn't have any answers. And to see Lucas in the very same position that Keith was in when he got totally humiliated stood about the at the altar, you know, and the chick didn't want him back. And now he's making a mess of
his life and he's drinking like his uncle Keith. And you know who's going to pull you out of that hole. So I love that it was Nathan. I love that Nathan and Haley are the friends. You know that Karen was to Keith when he was in that situation. It's a nice little generational recall.
I think you're right about the ghost of Keith be all over it, because that is why Dan is so insane legitimately, and he's gone insane. He's crossed over into total like cloud cuckoo land, and everything that he's saying is the way he's talking to this guy, holding up a card that the guy can't see. He's like shaking his head up and down. He's interacting with this person as though they're awake. I mean, Paul really commits to it. But it's there's nothing normal about this behavior at all.
But it's all stemming from the moment that he killed his brother, and it's like, oh, could he kill again? Is he going to do something else again? He's just trying to find redemption, trying to find his way, and it's all coming from Keith, from what happened with Keith. Yeah, that is the umbrella over the episode. I think you're right.
Well, and it'sn't it interesting if you think about it that way? We feel his presence and Dan is really driven mad by his absence, and it's such an interesting thing how someone can be gone but still so much a part of your life.
Dan's dealing with like the telltale heart right now, like he is losing his marvels. And I I was watching this episode when Dan is all like, come on, pastor, just die and also die and then it would be cool if you would die. It's just this like emotional rollercoaster that Dan's doing, And all I could think is, I bet Sarah Paulson would do a really good job playing Dan Scott. Like in my head, I was like,
who else can do this? Betch stuff? I just want to see other actors get to do that like crazy thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was so up and down, and you're right, Paul committed, which was a lesson he taught us all the time. Ye like, don't have asset, get in there and make it real.
Well, you have to when you're it's sodiculous. Why is a hospital allowing number two on the heart transplant list to be alone in the room with number one.
Dude, it's a conflict of interest, Sophia, What are the real rules in a hospital? Yeah?
Go yeah. By the way, none of any of this is based in any semblance of reality. Also, you would never know who else was on the list, Like it's such a violation of someone's Hippa writes, you can't. It's so crazy to be like, oh, yeah, well that guys want ahead of you, like they.
Would never you should trip him. Yeah, yeah, it's insanity. I really like it. I mean they straight up handed that man a pillow there, like, yeah, do you want to make the reverend more comfortable? Good on that actor for keeping a straight face.
I really wanted him to open his eyes. I kept wanting him to just open his eyes.
If he could just open one eye just a little, like side for dan, mm hmmm.
Like excuse me, hello?
Yeah. And then where's the reverend's real congregation and real family. Can you imagine them coming in being like, ah, yeah.
He's a reverend of what the hell kind of a congregation and family? They don't They never show up. No one shows up.
Also, all I could think was that that the woman playing the nurse who.
Was acting with Paul.
I was like, guys, come on, nurses know everything that's going down at the hospital. There is no way this woman would be like, oh, you want to adjust his head, here's a pillow, like please.
Well, we had Brooke and baby Angie set up for a dream day at the beach and by the way, you love either way can bless for spectaculars.
I can see the discomfort on my face when I have to walk out, just being like, I gotta do this scene with a baby in my underwear.
They were like, you know how we can get Sophia naked, give her a baby, make it seem wholesome.
She's taking a baby to the beach.
Here we go, who takes a baby that has like a wound from heart surgery to the beach or there's like saying sand under.
So stupid.
M hmm.
We're trying to avoid infection. Let's take her to the beach.
The like pure.
Humor of them just being like we don't know what to do with her. We're gonna make her say she's gonna ask Lucas to give her a baby.
Then we're gonna.
Realize that didn't go well and pretend we never said it. Then then we're gonna make it very clear that she's trying to help Peyton get Lucas back. But it's the end of the season and it'll be way more dramatic if people wonder if he's calling one of three women instead of one to two.
So let's throw a books name.
Back in the ring, Like like j W come early in the episode and you're like, who whatever it is?
Luke?
Is it?
Is it Lindsay?
Is it Peyton?
Is it Brooke?
I went what what?
Brook's not involved in any of this.
Yeah, every time they try to involve no, nobody likes it, and then we stop. And then every time there's something where they think they need more drama, I'm in and I'm like, this is this.
We're in, We're out, We're in, We're out. It's I have whiplash. Yes, yes, I know Brook's not going to Vegas to get married to Lucas, but I wouldn't put it past him in that moment to call call her be like you know what, Look, it's just not working out for either of us anywhere. Why don't we just get together.
Let's just go guys, we all made those packs. We all made those packs when I was writing my book, I went through all my old journals, right, and I found a contract that I had with some dude where if we weren't married by the time we were like thirty or thirty five, we stated that we were going to marry each other. And my signature's on this thing and some dude's signatures on this thing, and for the life of me, I don't know who it is. I
cannot discipher the same. But that's something that like that we would do with our guy friends. Is be like, is it from that movie that Julia Roberts movie, My best Friend's Wedding? Yes, y'all. I need somebody to come read this signature and tell me who it was, because I'm sorry it didn't work out.
What a testament to the things that we think are so certain and solid, oh when we're young, I mean probably things we even think now, and then you know, look through years in the future. Like I feel like every generation or so, every few decades you got to like reassess because you really do well.
And the reality is there are all sorts of things you can think are true today and in a year you don't know.
You just don't know.
It's like I've Brooke and Lucas are totally the people to have that kind of arrangement.
Yeah for sure. Yeah, yeah, because Lucas and Haley could never I think they would just be grossed out. But definitely Lucas and Brook.
Yeah, I feel like those two in like in the ways that they're both a little emo, would just be like, listen, we have these weird lives and nothing we seem to want to work out is working out, and maybe there's a reason everybody keeps asking us if we're into each other.
Should we try again?
Like I think they would just get so practically tired that they might be game. I just always find it so funny when I see it's like I can see the writers going, we got to drum up some more drama.
Yeah, well, you had tons of drama in this episode. I mean, and in the last few you've been a big bucket of emotions and again a fabulous interaction with doctor Cutie and when the silence sets in again hello, I was like, oh, here it comes.
When the silence sets in, Brook, I was like, he's gonna say call me and and he was like, be proud of what you did for this baby.
I was like, what the.
What's probably gonna get me? Give me your number?
We are boo hissed that one. We're like, Chris, Chris Ethan.
Come on, this is the moment where you ask her out? Yeah yeah, I really, I'm so confused as to why he didn't come back because that was his last episode. I just don't get it. Do you remember anything about this? Well, I'm unsure, but I do know.
The in the times where we spill the tea. I do know that this was really getting us into the era where Voldemort really didn't like there being guys around because there were, you know, girls on our show who were single who he was trying to make moves on, and he didn't want them to have options.
So, oh my god, yeah, slim pickens because guess what, I was single by this episode. By this episode, my hair's different, my makeups different, because for the first time in the entire history of One Tree Hill, Hillary Burton was single and I was ready to mingle and.
You looked beautiful, you were glowing your hair.
And I looked around and I was like, wow, the playing field seems slimmer.
Sickens, babe. Yeah, but then why even hire him? In the first place, Like, why bring him in just to tease us and then give us no follow through?
Well maybe he thought we would hate him and we didn't.
Everybody liked him, and he went, oh, he's got to go. Well, I'm sorry that that happened, because I really wish Brooke had been able to have that story.
Brooks should have dated a hot doctor. Honestly, it would have been nice for her.
Yeah, definitely an adult that like gave her good advice, like when when the silence sets in the You've done a lovely thing, Broke, So.
If they relied on you a lot for a lot of the comedy, just in the show in general, I think, Broke, bron you know so much levity. Did you enjoy doing this like Arc where it was pretty much all drama all the time, or did it feel like was it exhausting and you missed you? I think in giggily, I mean I do.
I love doing the sort of comedic relief as Brooke. I always really enjoyed that. That was how you know she was pitched to me. I think what I enjoyed about this was her having a storyline that didn't revolve around a man. Just felt nice, you know, It was hard on some days, as it always is working with the baby, and then at other times it was sort
of great. It was like, you know, we were so used to doing like sixteen seventeen hour days, and you can't work hours like that with a baby, so like I had some free time for the first time in five years.
I was like, well, I have to go home when the baby goes home bye. Like I kind of loved that practically, but.
Yeah, I don't know, I didn't mind it. What really makes me feel cringey. And I remember it was like how hard they wanted me to push being broken when I have to give the baby back, and like they wanted me sobbing in that airport, and I was like, this feels really over the top. Like, guys, I get that she's attached, but I've had this baby for what like three weeks or something.
Like they wanted you to go full nanny carey.
Yeah, well that was the thing.
I was like, this feels like we're getting into like nanny carey territory, like single white female car like territory.
Like the hand that rocks the cradle.
Yeah, or if you've had a kid that you're fostering and it's been like a year, you know, yes, of that worse, yes, but three, Like, I don't know.
It just felt so extreme, and so I remember like as soon as I saw it happening, and I'm.
Supposed to like boo, just boo.
And sob and then turn around and see Lucas like I was like.
God, I hated it then and I hate watching it now because I just I don't know. I didn't I didn't feel like it was right.
Oh, I didn't mind it. I liked it. I mean, I thought you did a really sincere job of being upset. Kind of in the same way like remember when we were kids and we would leave summer camp and that last day of camp, we'd cry so hard because we're like, we're never gonna see these people again. So it wasn't like the world was ending, but it was just like I loved this bubble. This bubble was so nice. Brooke just got to be in a baby bubble. Yeah.
It worked for me because it felt to me like it wasn't so much about specifically Angie, as Brooke had found something to pour herself into that was not her work. It wasn't her ability to accomplish something nobody was relying on her for her brains or business acumen or creativity. It was like just her presence, her actual physical presence
was so meaningful. And to have the one thing that to have that taken away, the thing that's giving you, it's like telling you you're valuable just because you exist in your presence is here, and when that goes away, Yeah, that's like, well great, what do I do now? What am I supposed to go back to? I have to now keep performing all these things in order just to be loved and have value. So it hit me because it didn't seem like it was melodorm I'm so glad.
Yeah, well, isn't it funny though, Like it's so helpful to be able to hear how people experience something that they're watching, because yeah, I have a sense memory of like being directed in a way by someone who obviously I didn't like, in a way that felt over the top, and I was like, well, I don't know about this, and I don't know about this.
It feels iggy, and you're like, no, it totally works. I'm like, okay, great, it works. I don't think it worked because of the reason he was directing you right, right, right. I think what was happening was exactly what you thought was happening, But I just I think it came across as better than planned.
Lad.
Yes, Glas, that was good stuff. And I did like seeing Lucas show up at the airport and being there for her. I did too, So interesting And you know what I thought.
Was really interesting. It hit me in that scene, you know, Lucas being there for Brooke in this way, and when they get back to her house, I was confused about, like why he picked her up at the airport but then disappeared but then came back. But whatever, it worked in the order that it needed to. But the fact that he he talks to her about her vulnerability and why it's special really echoed for me what Haley was
doing for Lucas in this episode. Because you say him and you say, stop hiding your heart.
It's my next quote on the list, stop hiding your heart, saying I circled it, and you.
Say be you know, you're telling him to be honest about his feelings, to stop making a mess. And I really like that in a way, he takes the advice that you give to him and then he offers it to Brook and tells her that her vulnerability is something that he's grateful to witness, and he thanks her for letting him be a part of it. I was like, oh, wow, everyone really is showing up for their friends well in this episode.
I mean I thought it was a little wordy, but he's telling her. Yeah, I thought, hold on, I wrote this down. You know that I did.
Maybe it was because they were trying to do that on purpose, because they knew what the ending they were going to tell. Yeah the audience.
Yeah, I mean, look, they were teasing. They were definitely like teasing a cliffhanger. But I when he's like Brook, that's the only way I see you, and it's why you're so beautiful, it was like, oh, oh, tell me more. I didn't hate it. If he ends up calling Brooke, I'm not mad at it. I think that there's a real basis for a partnership there. Maybe not so much like romance, but partnership, which is probably a bigger factor in a long term relationship, Like can we can we
pick each other up? Can we make each other safe? And Luke, for whatever reason, wants to make Brook feel very safe. Yeah, if I can jump in and say though that I hillary Burton, the actor was feeling some very real like jealousy that Luke was getting to comfort Brook and Peyton was like Peyton a fucking mural somewhere. I was just like, what, whoa where is Peyton? Because that's her?
Yeah, where is she called Luke? Why do you think she called Luke?
She no, she probably called both of them.
But I was just like, well, because Luke and Brooke were both saying goodbye to the girl that they love, and I know.
That's a good one.
That's what was happening, So it was good that they were together. But she didn't call Peyton.
Well, I will say that, thank god. Though they actually addressed it, even though it was quick, because he says, where's Peyton? And then I have to admit that I didn't tell you that Angie was actually leaving today, and so that's why he calls me on like hiding this stuff from people.
That's all he's doing this episode is be like this Peyton here, because he does, right, where is she? I'm trying to duck her? She's being aware.
Though painting that mural though, Okay, what did it actually say? Do you know what the quote is? Because I kept trying to read it and I couldn't catch it.
It's the end of Lucas's book. It's the whole thing about how like love remade.
Him and made me like young again, made me whole again. And it's a picture of the comets.
Oh man, I've really missed that.
And he says what it looks like at least is that in his writing of that final paragraph, he says I will always love you, like in it at some point, because you can see that kind of at the bottom of the comet. And then she does the like return return on the computer screen thing and says, I will always love you Peyton. So yeah, she like gave him his book back.
Really made me miss the river court me to a shot of Chad's standing in the middle of the quote.
Yes, I mean the big aerial shot.
There's so many epic artistic shots and moments in this episode, even Mouth and Millie leaning up against the wall of the news station. The way the camera moved past it just felt like really elevated, interesting to look at.
Our camera department showed up so many crane shots in this episode. Oh yeah, from the very beginning, that shot of main Street where it like comes down onto the street. Yeah, the river court shots, the shots in the airport. We worked that crane this.
Episode, and the and the end with the car accident.
H we'll get there.
Yeah, well and think about it too. You know, it's it's five eighteen, but it's the season finale because the season was truncated because of the strike, so there was budget left over. Like, we had a full eight days of a techno crane on this episode, and that's not something we normally had.
Oh, that's right.
To have a crane every day. Yeah, Like that's why all these shots are so amazing.
So you could take an episode that normally for us would just be in town, you go to all your regular locations, and you could turn it into something that was so much more. You could take more time with the shots. Yeah, it makes it look more like a movie.
I want to crane on everything, me too. Joy. I sidebarred before we got to the talk with Haley and Lucas on the roof because I really loved that scene. I thought you and he had You and him had so much this episode that was funny, like you telling him to fix the ferret on his head. I love the gold Stars cold, but then you guys have this moment where you're reminiscing about the water balloon fight you had on top of Karen's cafe, and you say to
him that we're not kids anymore. And this is my favorite part of One Tree Hill is how southern it is. Where our characters are twenty two years old. They are stressed about being married and having kids, like there is no Tom left. That is the most southern thing about our show. And Hayley's just like Clockstick and Luke, we're not kids anymore.
We're gonna die soon. Luke, You're better get your together.
Pull it together.
I love that.
It's like our brains won't be done developing for four more years, but we are old and we should be responsible.
Mm hmm, it's so good.
I love it. Yeah, stop hiding your heart.
Stop hiding your heart. It's so nice. Good one too. All of the garbage and pain is just garbage and pain, and love is better and don't underestimate love. And I remember reading that and really feeling connected to that. Yeah, a really real moment there. I also like I like.
Her saying that to a writer in particular. You know, garbage and pain isn't poetic, because there really is this notion for artists, you know, like the tortured artist. I remember years ago a friend of mine that I was working with to get sober and he was really struggling. He was convinced that if he did, he wouldn't be as good an actor. And yeah, like that's this lie that you know that that somehow your mess is what
makes you interesting. And it was really special for me as a friend to be able to like witness the unpacking of that. And I love that Haley kind of calls Lucas on it and is like enough, like, no more of this tortured artist nonsense, show up for what's good in your life.
Yeah, yeah, love is better. Love is interesting. Yeah, m.
Well, and it's and it's not some myth that keeps you sick or keeps you small.
I loved it.
I think Haley talks the talk in this episode but also really walks the walk, like there's that There are multiple moments in this episodisode where you see her just taking in her own life, taking in her family, taking in being in the recording studio, and she just clicking. And it's one thing when the person giving you advice is just like saying all the right things, but it's another thing when you're witnessing them live it and call
it into action. And so seeing Haley, who has been through some hellacious I don't know it just that felt so real. You know, it feels nice to appreciate goodness in the moment, because I think a lot of people fall into I know I certainly have fallen into the habit of recognizing it after the fact and be like, oh, that was lovely. That's my experience in this podcast, Like the filming of it didn't feel good. I would wake up every day with like a pit in my stomach.
And it's so nice to go back and look at it and be like, there are parts of that that were awesome.
That was nice.
It was nice, And so to see Haley appreciate it in the moment, that's such an important life skill that now I get to practice. Yeah, Haley and.
Nathan seemed to be doing a lot of that in this episode, like they're really I was just gonna say, yeah, like walking through the compilation of the things that they've been through in their life and just being able to use those as ways to help other people or like learn watching Nathan Learn. I have a whole thing about Nate Learning here. Yeah, but I just real quick, I'm I'm still chewing on what you did. The last thing you said, Sophia, you said, it's not a myth that
keeps you small? Could you just elaborate on that, because I didn't understand what you meant, but it was interesting.
Yeah, So, like the mythology of the tortured artist, the mythology of pain being good for you. You know this idea. I've seen a lot of people sharing this quote from a therapist recently that was like, I don't like what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I disagree, Like trauma that you've survived hasn't made you strong. You're strong because you survived it. You didn't deserve to go through the trauma, and you shouldn't be required to go through trauma to grow.
You know.
It's so these ideas for me, I'm really fascinated by these myths that we need to stop believing in, like that being tortured makes you a better artist or whatever. And I love that Haley is essentially saying to Lucas, like the myth the garbage and pain being poetic, that's a myth. Love is better. Yeah, like love, garbage and pain actually just keep you small. They keep you afraid,
they keep you hurting. And if you can, if you can do the work to unpack your stuff, you know, whatever your stuff is, and like take your own trash out, I think you can get out of whatever cycle you've been in that keeps you small or makes you small. You can you can choose like the bigger and the
better life. I mean, I like when you were talking about it earlier, Joy, like every couple of decades or maybe every couple of years, you got to reassess, Like, that's certainly a journey that I'm on in the moment. And it's like, you know, not something I particularly want to talk about in detail, But the theme of this season for me truly is like, oh no, no, I will not stay in any circumstance that makes me small. Yeah, and I just won't.
How do you balance that with like because and I remember thinking this actually when Haley was saying this quote too, because yes, I went with it the direction that you're talking about with the artists believing these myths about being tortured, and that made really interesting. But I think that like
don't we have to. We have to go through hard things in order to grow, Like, how can you grow if you if you're never encounter something that challenges your character or to figure out a lot of times we don't even know what we're capable over who we are until we're faced with it, Like what are you going to do in this moment? And you have to make a decision and the decision is determinate, determining factor into the development of your character.
Yes, and I think challenge is so important. But I think that the danger is when we romanticize our suffering and say it's what made us good.
Yeah, yeah, no, no, for sure, but like acknowledging, because we've all been through so much in our lives, and like acknowledging. Man, when I think about the things that I've been through, I don't wish that on anyone. I don't wish that I went through it. But I also I'm grateful for it because of the things that I've learned and how how it's how it's changed me and my being able to grow past those things.
You would have been a good person without them, Yeah, you would have been a good person without them. I don't know it shoots and Ladders man's true. I think. I think the shoots and ladders aspect where the notion is that you have to backslide five spaces in order to move forward and be in like your real position in life for a better position, yeah, or a better position,
you know. In parenting, there's a lot of like, well, it toughened me up, so I'm going to toughen my kids up the same way so that they come up with the same morals that I do. I am very very lenient and very very loving with my children because they don't have to deal with the same shit that I did, and they make better decisions than I did. They make decisions that come from a place of love
instead of a place of fear and defensiveness. And so the idea that you must go through trauma to come out as a good person is a part of the hero's journey. It's a part of a tale that's as old as Ulysses right, and it's bullshit, it's misogyny. It's a man's story that going to war is the thing
that makes you a full person. You can sit in a beautiful space surrounded by flowers and be domistic and believe in the beauty of the world and still come out a perfectly nice person, a perfectly kind hearted person. And I love that Haley wants Lucas to come into the light, you know, like to choose you more joy. God, that's it. It's like you can still be a full bodied person that is worthy of things and still has a big imagination without having to wallow in, you know, the underworld.
Yeah, And I think I think what's important is, look, when you've been through hardship, when you have suffered, when you have experienced things as we all have, that you wouldn't wish on anyone else. Yes, you need to. You need to make something of it, you know. It's why the phrase exists. You got to make you know, you have lemons, make lemonade.
Yeah.
Yeah, you have to figure out how to make something of it and find a gratitude for it and understand as part of your story, because otherwise it might kill you. But I would just prefer that people not have to suffer, you know, like I don't. I don't buy into this mythology that it's our suffering that makes us interesting. I think it's unfortunate that we live in a world that
is so desensitized to human suffering. And I think, you know, for me, like my entire life's mission is to create more community so that people show up and defend their neighbors, and that we show up and we build a more equitable society. Like I'm not interested in everyone should suffer because it makes you interesting.
Like I don't think so interesting now, you know, but I do.
I do think in the realm of being human, when you've been through something, you have to figure out what it might stand to teach you so that you can exist. And it's really it's really special in this episode to have Haley and Nathan on these parallel journeys and they're talking about it as a couple, but they're also using what they've been through to go and encourage their people
to grow. And what I love so much is that Haley's doing so much of it with Lucas and Peyton, and that Nathan is doing it with Jamie and doesn't realize he needs someone to do it.
For him, which Quentin is kind of doing. Yeah this space.
And Quentin's pushing him, He's pushing him, He's pushing him, and Nathan doesn't react well to it, and it's not until his own son basically says without saying, Daddy, you and I are going through the same thing. We're both scared that he goes, oh, I'm telling my son not to be scared, and I'm scared and I'm actually the one denying it and he's watching, so maybe he's learning to be scared for me, and like, oh, it just it killed me.
That whole thing. Trifecta is like three Jamie, Nathan, and Quenton all in the sittle circle of learning right now what they're being to each other and how they're sort of i mean passing the proverbial ball to each other of maturity and innocence and growth and fear, and it's it's so interesting to me.
Jackson is right like the same size, the same kind of like maturity as my daughter right now. And there's so many faces that he makes where I'm like, oh shit, I saw that face yesterday, you know. And there's something about like the kids are always copying us, right, Like your child is just always copying you. So if your kid's doing something you don't like, it's because you do it.
And we've talked about that in adults joy, but you know, I have a girlfriend that's like, I don't know why might doesn't get along with other girls, And I'm like, but have you met you? You know, if your kids struggling with something, it's because they've watched you struggle with it and they're emulating it. And I love that a kid can be going through something that's a microcosm of
the adult problems. But because they're not paying taxes and they don't have work on top of it, and they don't have like all these external factors, it makes the issue super boiled down and really easy to diagnose, so that it then opens up all these doors for the grown ups, like, oh, all I have to do is put my floaties on.
Okay, great, You're like Rocky Balboa.
When Nathan yelled I'm not afraid or I'm not scared, I'm not scared whatever, so good, and it's such a little boy temper tantrum.
Yeah yeah, but that kind of goes back to what you were just saying, too so about kid because for Jamie and what Hillary, what you're saying about keeping everything boiled down, what they you know, kids don't understand their version of their things, but that's that's their version of suffering like a kid being you know, having to deal with whatever it is that the fear is, or even a parent putting a restriction on a child and saying, no, you cannot just run out into the street, and the
kids like, but I really want to, and then they'll throw a fit. But it's for their safety, but they just can't understand that, So they're suffering is relative, you know to a child they really feel like they're suffering because they can't go get the candy out of the jar before dinner, or because they're being grounded because they haven't learned how to structure to be responsible in certain
ways or whatever. Do you know what I'm saying? Like the suffering is kind of relative, and we think like, oh, I'm suffering, I shouldn't have to suffer, And yet our version of suffering may be also relative compared to another someone.
No, but Nathan's suffering that he's frustrated and he's a little bit embarrassed that it's not coming back to him, and he's go this high school kid who is pushing him and making him look like a dips in front of his own son. Like Holy, that is suffering to Nathan Scott, right.
Yea, and Quinton's dealing with his own version of what's going on in his world and just trying to still stay alive and stay passionate about the game that he loves and stay relevant in the game that he loves.
Yeah, Haley's suffering in this episode is waking up with a rabbit in her bed because you know, those old shits poop everywhere.
That was the look on my face, like, oh, okay, I'm going to have to clean this up, right, But I did love that. I love them all. Jumping in the pool. I remember really loving doing that scene. It
was one of those this episode. Every day of this episode felt like one of those days at work where I was going through lots of my own personal suffering and it was an escape to be able to come to work and just have fun and play with family that was like all really nice people and everybody was treating each other well and we were just having a ball.
I loved shooting this episode, and I remember jumping in that pool and just being like, play, I just get to play and be a kid, which I felt like I wasn't able to do in my real life at that time. It was fun. It was really fun. Doing this stuff.
It did feel like there was like a fun thing. Every day you were either jumping in the pool or throwing water balloons, are getting to do a night shoot at the river Court, which was always real special, you know, taken over the airport. Yeah, I know. Every night was a different slumber party.
The last thing we really haven't hit here unless there's something else you guys wanted to say. Was it was Mouth and Millie. Oh yeah, and Lindsay saving the day at the station. Oh yeah, Lindsay, right of course.
Well, the Mouth and Millie of it all.
I loved it, that huge mic trup, just him being able to get in there and do what he's really good at, calling all those cues through the mic, and it was just so funny and just loved that they made the sportscaster end on and and I'm say your name.
I was like, oh my god, it's perfect. It's just a really moment.
For Mouth and like, you know, the music is swelling and we're all like, yeah, he did it, and then you get that moment of hilarious comic relief. It was perfect.
And you knew they were going to offer him his job. They were like they were going to let him jump in and the fact that he says I quit and he gets that great epic exit from that news station that just treated him so badly. Yeah, oh that felt good.
All of that was over that bonnie Vere song. And I, I mean, Jeff and I danced to Bonniever at our wedding. That was the first thing that he gave me when we started dating is that album. And I was like, okay, cool, you like, you're like moody, You're in. And it was so epic and so swelling because we go from like everybody's pieces are coming together, you know, Haley has that really touching moment with Lucas. Lucas goes and he talks
to Brook. Lindsey leaves like it makes this crazy phone call, and then when mouth.
Just absolutely kills it.
It just feels like our kids are all finding their stride, you know. It feels like they're all slowly tiptoeing back onto the path, and it feels nice. It feels like redemptive for this end of the season, bit only only to have the most epic exclamation point in the history of our show.
I am not okay, you guys, We've Regina George Dan Scott.
That was wild.
Everything is going so good for everyone.
Even Dan. He's making he's making strides on. He's trying. He didn't have to murder that man, but that man died. Like now he's number one. He's so happy, trying to give give something back to the gods.
What's your name and number? I'm Dan Scott and I'm number one one. Yeah you are baby?
Yea.
Guys, it hit him so that car hit him so hard. We have to post the reaction video of us because we fell out out. We were done.
I was not prepared. I was I just wasn't prepared. I felt like it was going to happen. You know, anytime somebody backs up into a street, you kind of get a feeling something's gonna happen. Holy, that was really intense. I mean, I don't remember they hit the dummy, right the dummy was what they actually hit or was it like a No, it looked like they hit a person.
How did they do that? Our crew kicked so much ass on this episode. They were like, oh, you want us to do a stunt? Too cool?
Watch this. We should have one of the stunt guys or a couple of them come talk with John Cople walk through some of the stuff. Ye, yes, yeah, we should have John com talk through some of the stunts with us.
Sometime because John doubled for Paul stuff because they both had dark hair.
And for James as well. Yeah, but this one, yeah, when they hit the uh, they hit the street, Paul hit the street, and it was for sure a dummy like falling, like rolling off of the car. And you could see the bad diet job on the mannequin.
Like the arm was all like.
Direction.
There's no joints or bones of that arm, No stuffed panty.
No, of course you get the like you get the dummy falling. And then they cut and you know, they put Paul in for the last little like shake and then the freakin' beeper starts going off.
It's like, come on, come on, it's perfect. He's gonna get a new heart and a new arm and a leg.
And is it bad that that beeper just reminds me of like outback steakhouse, Like remember the sound of it, the table's ready. Sometimes you just need a bloomin onion. I get it. I just I loved it because you've got all this like feel good sentimental going on with the kids, and they're like, what's the most feel good thing we can do with Dan Scott? And we're gonna hit him with an accurate Chevy Malibu. Oh yeah, nail god. I loved it all right, Cliffhanger, Who's Luca's gonna pick?
Lindsay making the phone call? Here's my analysis. Lindsay called him when she knew that he had a game. She is admitting that she lied to him that she was seeing someone. She is admitting that she does have feelings for him and has just put him in this purgatory for no good reason. And so I think that he definitely should not pick her because she's been kind of toxic.
It's my take.
Yeah, don't have anything to do with how how you might feel for Peyton Sawyer.
All I'm saying is Peyton has made it very clear, very clear, of the three girls, she's the only one who actually wants him.
Yeah, she chooses him. Yeah that's true.
Yeah, and it's it's Haley's whole thing. Path of least resistance. Go to the light, go towards love, make it easy, go to the love, go with the love.
Yeah, I don't know what's your honorable mention?
So honestly, I think my honorable mention is Lisa Goldstein walking through these hauling water balloons.
So no one's ever looked cooler. What a great moment, right, that is such a great nineties rom com moment. I loved every minute. Yeah, yeah that was great.
What's yours?
What's yours? I'm running? I mean, like the car hit, like the way that she was hit in that car. I just feel like, I feel like Paul committed so hard to this episode. Again he always They just knew they could give him the craziest material and he would come through. Yeah, so yeah, that's gonna be.
It for me. Loved it all right.
Fan question, Yeah, Ashley wants to know what is your pit and peak of season five? Pit and peak? Pits, Nanny Carey, the pits, I mean for the character anyway, peak, I guess right now, Like the last episode, Haley seems to be in a good place. She seems to be like getting over her anger with Dan. She seems to be ready to help all her friends. She's doing her music again. Yeah, it seems like she's on the upswing.
Yeah, it was a great song this sub I loved that song. I loved it when you would sing it.
It's a good song.
Yeah, the beginning of it is so pretty.
Yeah, it was a good one. I didn't write that one, but it was a good song. I didn't write that, but I guess it was a good song. But it was okay, But it was.
Fantastic because we come out of the dance, got car hit and it's like Haley holding onto the headphones. Yeah, everyone's doing great.
Everyone else is so happy.
Ah.
I think for me, like peak of this season really just the homecoming of all of us.
I loved, like, I love.
You know, despite the fact that we didn't really get to see each other in this episode. Like I love Brook and Peyton be in roommates because you know, we're all doing that's so advanced for twenty two year olds. I kind of love that these two twenty two year old girls live in a house together.
M h.
I think my honestly, my pit of season five is the stupid haircut.
I hate growing out by this episode. You have been so mad this whole time and it looks so cute.
Guys, I just really hate it. So yeah, those are mine? What do you what do you got?
My pit for season five? Can Max the record store guy, what a loser? And then my peak for season five is Peyton being really clear about who she's into, but also like totally fine to just go work. Like I loved her being on the phone with Mia, just like who's this guy that you're talking to? Like, I love the foreshadowing going on in this episode, but like Peyton just putting her head down, getting her work done, not chasing that dude around, but like being really honest with
anyone that asks her what her deal is. I I love it. It's less cry It's like, even though she tears up, it's not such pity party as like when she was younger and it was like nobody likes me, everybody leaves.
It's a lot of emotional maturity. It's nice. Yeah, her way is punishing people is not throwing water balloons at.
Them instead of God bless ah.
I don't know, we weeping in the graveyard.
In the graveyard. Well, I can't wait to come back for season six. I just remember the summer between season five and scene six as being my summer of debauchery, and so I love this era. I can't wait to come back, can't wait.
I'm ready excited too.
Oh yeah, I went home while we were filming this episode and just like made out with the dude that was Homecoming King the year before I graduated, and was just like, yeah, going home does feel cool. Yeah, I brooke Davis, my hometown. I love it.
I love it.
I did that when I was when I was though. Yes, I went back and like found my seventh grade boyfriend and was like, camere you this again, just for a while. I love it.
We learned so much this year. All right, should we spend one final season five wheel Let's do it season?
Uh?
Who is most likely to forget their best friend's birthday? I mean, you guys know that we record these things well before they air. So today is actually Lee Norris's birthday. Have we all set him a message? We're gonna do it right now? Everybody texts Lee on three ready one two three.
Aday, buddy.
I'm trying to think who forgets birthdays? I do you do?
Yeah? I don't you know what. You guys are easy for me because it's the dyscalcula. But for whatever reason, maybe just because I've known you for so long and we've been around each other every year for birthdays most I mean for a long time anyway. Yeah, but I think because life is so transient and we're always traveling, that if I'm not with you consistently during your birthday, the date will start to get mas muddy. Or if I remember the date, I don't know what day of
the week it is that I'm in. Yeah, and so then I will forget. I never know what the actual date is today. I don't I have no idea what today's date is.
If I don't open my calendar app, I don't have any idea what's going on.
Yeah, and I only know from like Facebook or other people telling me, like I, you know, I'm stressed.
Because the robots have taken over all of our Like we used to know everybody's phone number by heart, and now we don't. Is this a byproduct of that?
Dude? Absolutely?
Yeah.
But if we don't sell it rate the birthday, does it actually happen? Right? Like? Do we get to just stay I'm perfectly.
Fat I've been doing. Just don't celebrate.
Yeah, just sit right here at the sage forever? Yeah, which character? Which character doesn't remember? Well?
You want to know what's funny is I was going to be like that feels like a very Victoria Davis thing to do to never know when it's anyone's birthday because she doesn't care. But then my thought was, does Victoria even have friends? So I don't know.
No, I feel like Victoria would know everyone's birthday but purposely never say anything to.
Them, Like she definitely doesn't remember Brook's birthday. Remember the sad birthday brookat where she was all by herself with little copcake.
That's all alone.
Hated it? All right, you guys. Next episode? What do we got?
Season six, Episode one? Touch me? I'm going to scream Part one? Ooh got our short titles give me anxiety?
Yeah? I mean to quote eb Scott in this episode. It's not porn, it's erotica. Gotta love Devin skills. All right, you guys, this is a really fun one. Here we go, Season six, Gideot.
Season six Mite. Hey, thanks for listening.
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O.
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