S3 Episode 9: Relentless Pursuit - podcast episode cover

S3 Episode 9: Relentless Pursuit

Nov 30, 202138 minSeason 3Ep. 9
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Episode description

Oregon State Linebacker Hamilcar Rashed Jr. and his family nervously watch the 2021 NFL Draft, struggling to make sense of his complicated draft ranking after his tumultuous senior season and personal battle with COVID. Meanwhile, Cal Defensive Back Camryn Bynum hosts his draft party in a mountain cabin in Big Bear, California, while team executives question which position he'll be best suited for in the NFL.

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Transcript

Speaker 1

Drafted is a production of tree Fork Media, Clutch Sports Group, and I Heart Radio m M. Most people have that are getting drafted, they're always the guys since freshman year, always the best, one of the same. But for me, that wasn't the case. Sophomore year of high school, I was trash and football fist sting on JV. So, like now that it's like literally less than a day away, it's kind of starting to get surreal. I'm I'm a cry I'm an emotional person, so I'll be tearing up

thinking about my process. I was talking to my mom's instagram from like six years ago, watching all my high school videos and all my old workouts and all that. So it's finally starting to get real for me. Welcome back to Drafted. I'm Steven Johnson and this is episode

nine of season three. In this episode, we'll meet our sixth and final player of this season, Oregon State linebacker Hammaka Rashid Jr. We'll be joining Hammacah and his family in Phoenix, Arizona for their draft party, but first we're returning to the mountains of Big Bear, California for cornerback Cameron Bonham's big day and now it's finally here. Cam explains, all right, so it's the morning of the draft April.

We're about to late breakfast. But today I'm not gonna tell people, well unless it's just talking crazy, but from my immediate family, I'm not telling him. I'm Mike, So I'm gonna keep it as authentic as possible for you. All good content. All right, I'll be back. Cam joins his family in the living room, where they all wait for the first round to begin. Shortly. All right, Kevin, give me some wisdom you Yeah, I want to be quiet on all of a sudden, come on, give me something.

All his normally talkative siblings are suddenly quiet, maybe finally succumbing to the weight of what's at stake. So to lighten the mood, Cam shows off his newest skill. I just want to Cam talked himself how to play the piano while recovering from a knee injury last season. He did this by following his same routine from football. Here. He explains, physically, I just had to sit back and do nothing for a little So that's the first time I've ever done that. So that was the biggest challenge.

I was sitting in the garage doing curls, sitting with my legs straight on the bench, and I wasn't allowed to sweat, so I make it really put the fan on me, sit there, do a set of curls. I have to rest for like five minutes so I don't get sweating and get it affective. But I was any any little way to still get working. So that was that was the biggest challenge for me, to to actually sit back and rest. And I knew that I still find a way to do something productive. Let me challenge

myself mentally in a different way. So that's when I started playing piano and fell in love with music. Ever since, Cam assumed his process for football would directly translate. He substitute finger drills on the keys for footwork on the field, as if tackling a running back or covering a wide receiver are the same as combining notes and timing the pedals. If always wanted to play the piano, and this is super tough, super big challenge, And I was like, okay,

this does memic football. I gotta learn something. I gotta drill it and then make a big picture and we able to make music. Same thing with football. Gotta learned to playbook. You gotta do drills to try and get the movements down. Then you put it together and that's a full play. So let me challenge myself and start learning this instrument that I love and have loved my whole life. That never played it. Uh, that was like

the best thing I've done so far. Going into the draft, NFL scouts thought Cam might make a better safety than a cornerback. However, it's a big risk moving a player to another position at the pro level. Many athletes aren't open to the idea or the amount of work required, and the early struggles can shatter their confidence or overwhelm them completely. So almost every team asked Cam how he

felt about trying to change positions. Would he be all right getting outside his comfort zone and learning a new role on defense? Could he handle the mental challenges that come with initially struggling, And what about the amount of time and commitment it takes to master these new skills. Now, I'm pretty good now to the point where I can play almost anything once I learn it. I can read all the music, so it's just a matter of memorization. NASA.

Now I'm branching out to now I'm obsess of the baskits are along with pianissa um, just trying to branch out of the music and just keep learning. It was this exact approach that got him here to draft day. Throughout the week, it was before school there we're start workout starts at five, and then right after school another practice on the field at the high school, and then right back at five o'clock we're back up with the facility doing our speed work, doing our lifting, and one

more DV workout. So it was it was at least with fourteen hours a day of from the time you wake up at five am and I'm not getting home until seven at night after my last workout, and then I had to do homework and then right back and now that was basically my whole routine even when I got to college, still doing those crazy hours, still putting it in extra hours. When a whole year without missing a dave doing extra work. So that's that's really been

the whole story of my entire career. In addition to the fourteen hour work days, Cam added another layer once he started playing in college. I talked to the quarterbacks, to the receiver coach, and the offensive coordinator after games just say what what did you see him my game that made you do this this or that? And after games I'm d M and receivers like, okay, what was going through the film room that week? And how are you guys planning to beat me? After games, Cam questioned

opposing quarterbacks and coaches about his weaknesses. Then he continued texting opposing receivers for days, desperately seeking any edge to improve and any new area to work on. So maybe when of those NFL teams asked Cam if he'd be open to learning a new position like safety, instead of answering their questions, maybe he should have just played them a song or two. Meet hammaca Rashid Jr. Linebacker from

Oregon State University. I had a lot of meetings, play I every meeten and I had to play two teams. We're talking about, um, how did I drop from you know, fourteen sacks zero? And that's pretty much where I'd answered his whole drive time. And that's probably the biggest question. Now I've been asked arguably no prospect and the entire draft has a wider range of possible outcomes than Hammoca. He's projected to be picked anywhere from late in Round

one too late in the seventh round. In other words, at almost any point in the entire draft. This is because Hamaca had possibly the two craziest back to back seasons out of anyone in college football. Two years ago, he had fourteen sacks, barely trailing last year's number two pick, an NFL defensive Rookie of the Year, Chase Young. Then he decided to come back for his senior season. Here's Hammokah elaborating, Yeah, I wanted to come back and be

a top teen. You know what they're saying, I'm top thirty. You know thirty people are better me. I wanted to come back, and so I'm like, no, these thirty people are not betting me. All these sixty people are not betting me. That's really motivated me to go back. He returned to Oregon State and only recorded two tackles for a loss and zero sacks. So naturally everyone wants to

know how and why that happened. And this is why he has a nearly unprecedented draft range and why he and his family are feeling a little nervous right now. As the final few pre draft minutes take away his mother, Misha McLamore especially, begins to struggle with the tension. Yeah, I'm sitting down there. Yeah, I like down and we're not getting Mischia takes a seat on the couch to try to calm herself. She's struggling with a similar question

and the fel executive's face. What's next for Hannock's career? Is he the player from two seasons ago or the one from last year? Which player is the real hammockaver Sheet Jr. To answer that question, you have to go all the way back to his childhood where he grew up playing sports with his three brothers in South Phoenix, Arizona.

Growing on yesterday. You know, I had a lot of people going outside playing basketball and football, and I feel like that's when it started my football career, you know, talking all the people in the streets, so you know, hot deserts, scrapes and bruises and all types of stuff. Now that was you know, no fun times. For sure, football was fun. Hannaka played in the youth leagues along

with the pickup games in the neighborhood. He'd go crashing into anyone and everyone, no matter the age or size or whether he was on the field or a paved street. The tackling and chasing and collisions all felt natural. I think I'm just born like this. You know, I'll never back down, you know. Sorry early age. I think I want to say, probably my older brothers they made me tougher. You know, I'm always fighting man, I'm fighting your friend or something like that, and I'm not backing down. The

probably started from my brother and my dad. You know, they're always tough on me and working me being fearless. I'm fearless and I'm not scaring. You know. It's the heart and how tough you are. Like DeVante Smith getting pushed her ounto the basketball court. As a younger kid, Cammica grew up always playing against older siblings and bigger kids in the neighborhood. Here's his older brother DeAndre on those intense childhood games, like any other big brother. For me,

you're gonna you're gonna pick on the little ones. It's my to make sure you're coming you tough. Most things about happen. Like I said, we all was rough. So even though my mom trying to protect you, to keep us clean, we're just like any other kids. We're bad we're playing, you know, picking on each other, that type

of ordeal. So as Hammer came along, the one visual thing I got about ham He usually had his arch little hockey stick like he's probably like I want to say, the water too, and he probably had like a pull up ball. He ran to the house chasing as little a little as he was chasing us, you feel me, So I feel like that could have been another thing

where he was. He was crazy and the football he already had it even as a toddler him I would chase his older brothers to the house with a hockey stick, already playing like a future linebacker looking for someone to hit. But like I started at the early age, I know I was gonna be a for all players because I was just tough as a one, ain't I'm fighting, I'm picking on kids three times bigger than me. You know, I'm not backing down out there, just putting my head

and hitting arry kid out there. So I feel like I learned that. I think I learned that us like probably seven nine years old, and and I didn't look back to Sinderstand. Despite some success, Hammaka wasn't heavily recruited or getting much publicity during his first two seasons of high school. Then everything changed his junior year. It wasn't really recruited. Um, I end up had to get like ten sacks in one game, and that's what I'm everything like,

offers started trying to come. You know, I blew up my last two years. But nobody knew me until. But that's that. That's that line of having twenty sacks in my jail year. In case you think you misheard those cartoonists sounding statistics, Hammaca recorded ten sacks in one game his junior year of high school and twenty for the season. I'll just pinned dn and honest f ls, I was just running past the kids the whole time and just unstoppable. I feel like, you know, I was just pretty easy,

just getting off the bar, just honestly. I don't even say it counted, but you know, tis saxs tis sacks, you know, so you can do that in the video game. Then, following the best performance of his football career, everything in the himcas like quickly turned once again. I had twenty sacks, a lot of tiger for losses. You know, I was glowing up. I had a great year, but into my senior year, my parents end up breaking up and he broke up, and that led to me moving in with

my mom, Me and my little brother. We end up having to live with my my oldest brother for a couple of months, and I wasn't sure where I was gonna go. Uh. I was um sharing rooms from my nephew and my little brother, So you know, it was tough time. Hammaco and his younger brother, along with her mom, moved into his older brother's apartment in a new school district. That meant Cammica would now be attending a new high school for his senior year. His mom, Misha, recounts those

traumatic days. It was a trying time for all of us. We had just went through our family breakup and then you know, he would just had to be strong. It was his senior year that everything happened before we got to Chandler, and the whole life just changed. And I just said, okay, we'll have a goa. We got to figure this out. So I said, whatever I gotta do, whatever I have to do, we're gonna get through this.

And with the grace of God and my my dad's deceased now, but he was there and then my grandmother, she stepped in and my other grandma, who just passed away two months ago. My family came together and helped me to make sure that me and my boys would be fine. And it was a child Mischa and her parents and grandparents all came together to care for the boys and work with the coaches at Hammonka's new high school, Chandler. My name is Russell Scott. I am I'm assistant football

coach at Chandler High School. I am also a teacher on campus as well, and I know him by way of football. Of course, we knew of him and we did hear about this tensack game that he had, and we knew he was special. But my relationship with with

him was more after practice. He also, you know, he had a hip injury at the beginning, and so I would take him to physical therapy, so he and I would ride along, you know, So we had twenty minutes therapy and twenty minutes back from therapy, and you know, I do leadership here at Chandler, and so much of our conversation was, you know, about life, because we knew he had the physical tools to make something happen for himself. But we also want to know about his mentor background.

He want to know his goals and his aspirations as well. You know, so much of of my conversation with him came from being off the field. Coach Scott and Hammaca began to bond, and because Hamaca didn't know a single person at his new high school, this relationship provided him with someone to turn to for help during this dark period. He did have some things going on family wise. He also had some academic things going on as well. Uh. And so when he came over to Chandler, we let

him know. So if a kid has the utmost the potential to play at the next level Division one, two three, uh, we we delve into him and we do transcript research. And so we put together a plan for for him. And it took him getting all a's and beats both semesters in order for him to to really have a shot to go anywhere. Hamaca's living situation is unsettled. His parents are recently divorced, and he has to start over at a new high school with a new football program

where he doesn't know anyone. Then he discovers that he has to get all a's and b's both semesters to academically qualify to play college football. His senior year quickly turns into the greatest challenge of his young life, and his decorated twenty season disappeared into the background as everyone wonders whether he will be able to rise to the occasion on and off the field. We'll be right back like.

Coach Scott and the staff at Chandler High School called a meeting with Hannukah and his mom to deliver the tough news about his respects my high school coaches. They sent me down. He was like, listen, there you have I want to say. I had like a two four two three g p A. And they were like, you have all these schools coming up to us talking about you know, you're a great athlete. You you can do all this stuff. You have talk of production and stuff

like that. But it was like, you're having no grades. You gotta do the S A T. S uh. I think it's S A T or the other one. And they pretty much tled me down. And I believe Coach Eric, who was the guy that he sent me down, he told me he's planning this whole map out. He was like, listening, I need you to buckle down and get straight a's to qualify, And he's like, I know you're doing, and I believe all your Harvard will pay off. If you buy into this, buy into what I'm saying right now,

you'll be in college. Hamaka needed to excel in the classroom and on the football field, and he needed to do that amid the turbulence and emotional challenges with his life at home. She's sick because she's out of she's hurt. You know, it's tough, you know, watching her come home from work and just go straight to the room, and I really, you know, obviously all that stuff is just tough to see. So I feel like that's probably the toughest party. You know. He wasn't sure if she was

physically ill, suffering emotionally, or both. Under these conditions, his life seemed to be facing acrossroads. He could use these challenges to focus and further commit to his goals, or he could understandably wilt under the intense pressure bearing down

on every part of his life and give up. So I feel like for me, it was just being there and you know, being strong for her mom because she's having a tough time just having her not worry about me because she already has so much stuff to worry about, you know, and I don't have my mom stressed about me. And see where I'm at. And I just took it as I go to show my mom like I can help her. And you know, doing everything right helped me. See Claire, I wanted to get to college and now

you know the NFL. Hammock A committed himself to these goals in a new way, throwing himself into his schoolwork and football. Here's Coach Scott on what he saw from Hammoca during this period. He had to go to tutoring and so he had to get with his teachers. He had to sit in there and and and study for another hour or so before practice, you know. And then he once he made out the practice, he gotta study out there on the field too, so you know, he

was putting in time. Then after school and he did go to the public library, which is down the street from this house. He went to the public library in order to get some homework done because I don't believe they had an internet connection in the apartment that he was staying in with his mom and brother while he was going to school. Here's Hammocka again on these compounding challenges. I pretty much bought it and worked my butt off to go to a library for like three or four

hours and study with an S A T guy. You know, obviously math and stuff was hard. To end up getting straight a's probably for my first time in my life and kind up qualified and I was just so happy. He qualifies for Division one football and follows up his twenty SA junior year with thirteen more sacks as a senior. This leads to hammaca committee to Oregon State, planning to

join his older brother there who plays on the basketball team. Finally, the dark days are behind him, until what seemed like the perfect situation in college quickly turns into another bad dream. Our freshman year, end up traveling every game thinking I was gonna play, you know, the coach telling me to get ready, stretch and stuff like that, and I'm never

going me in. At the last like two games, he was like, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm your ash, saying that he is like seeing you to do elemental lived and that was that, and it was pretty tough. I was working my butt off, you know, I was probably just stronger than just starting linebacker and faster than him. And I'm working my butt off from doing everything right, and I just didn't get that chance. And second year comes

around the same thing. I end up playing this special team my second year, um doing everything right out there, smacking people, smacking people around on kickoff and punt and stuff like that, with the hopes of, you know, playing on defense. And I think I want to say, I probably got eleven plays that whole second year on defense. He wasn't getting to play, and he certainly wasn't having the same fun he used to when he was younger. It was a tough time and I couldn't do nothing

about that. You know. Everyone went around me was like, I can't believe you're not playing. So I feel like that's probably what this motivated me. Even are those years, those past years, I'm just like, they don't believe me. They don't see what I see, and they are not even gonna give me the chance to even try to show. That's what probably the hardest part was anger, you know, just not playing. You know, you're not playing football. You

just YEA, obviously you can lose yourself. Because mom Misha tried to stay positive despite the difficult years adding up and Hammka's brother transferring to another university. We just try to do is just encourage him and still hanging there for him, never playing, from him always playing football for now everything stopped. Your whole life changed. Just still trying to encourage him to just keep pushing forward even though

he's not playing. So it was a rest time. And then for your brother to be there, and then he's no longer there, and the first first time I ever leaving home and our households had changed completely. So we just had to keep encouraging him and until you can figure this part out. Once again, her son faced a daunting period in his life. No matter where he looked, he didn't see a clear road to better times ahead. We'll be right back. Despite all the challenges, Hamaca's mom, Misha,

never lost faith. She explains, I said I would do what I have to do to fixes and I'm would support you guys, regardless of what we just went through. I said, I need you guys to do your job too, So you expect to me the hand of my business. I need to do hand of yours, and you're gonna get there regardless. Yeah, even if we had that was Hammaca's stepdad Chris Acklamore in the background talking about driving.

He came out eighteen how okay came home. It was like spring breaker with I don't know what it was, but he came home and we had got him a plane ticket to go back to Oregon. So we got to the airport drop hammca off after flying home to Arizona for spring break. Hamaka is now returning to campus for the rest of the semester at Oregon State. Drop him off at the airport. He calls, we weren't even back dead to the apartment yet. Mom, the plane left me. What do you mean the plane left year? What do

you mean? What do you mean? And so trying to faire out, Okay, he has to be back to school the next day or so. He's like, I'm trying to figure out how to buy another plane ticket. Everything was like two dollars one way. Looks at Chris, he said, we drive there? What did you mean? We went and picked that to go back up from the airport. Twenty two hours we drove him back to Oregon. Just not time to get to practice. When I say driving off to you were attack team and have a go to

sleep there in the back of the Seguoya. We were just driving twenty twenty two hours. Twenty two hours of driving, two years without playing, his brother transferring from Oregon State.

Throughout it all, hammock As simply tried to persevere. Research shows the most predictive traits for success are persistence and grit, showing up for practice and tutoring day after day, dragging yourself to the public library, having a family who picks you back up metaphorically off the ground and literally from the airport and get you back on your way. This is what Hammaca and his parents did, and suddenly one

day it paid off. Going into Hammoca's red shirt sophomore year, the Oregon State Beavers hired a new head coach, Jonathan Smith, and just like that, everything in Corvallis oregan changed. Third year and I got a new coach of staff and finally got to play football, like three years. I was just thinking this whole time, like you might not see

it now, but I'm gonna make someone pay. And I was honestly wanted to play that old coaching staff and just go crazy on that on their team and just showed them like this is the guy you had on the bench the whole time, you know, and you didn't even give him the shot to even try. You know. He got like twelve tackles, twelve two typles Watson and some sids. And I was just like, wow, this football feels like a year. I haven't played so long since

high school. But after that, you know, the sky was a lament his red shirt junior year in all the pieces came together, the joy was back, and football became fun again. So fun it was. It's so much fun, you know, thinking about like, oh, I'm out here getting respect from other teams and everyone was like, yeah, you're a great player doing this. I remember Vivily like issue like tackles. He was just like me a game. I ran past him and I got like another tiger for loss.

He was like, bro, you're killing me. He was like, bro, I really can't stop to me. I end up trying to like be like a one arm staff and he like knocked my hand down and I fell to the ground and he was like, yes, I got him. You finally got him. And I was just like this is funny. It's like really crazy, Like he finally got me. On one, I'm killing the whole game. So I feel like overall,

it's just it was a great year. So I was just just me just getting back to football and being out there being destructive and making plays the biggest difference, you know, I'm just out there being free, letting me go over as you left me play football. Hammka registered fourteen sacks that year along with the twenty two and a half tackles for loss. He catapulted into the national spotlight and became a first team All American and then

surprisingly he decided to return for his senior season. It was tough to think about right now, but um, yeah, I broke my thumb has curgery at the end of the year for you know, tween ninety year. So you know, my big reason why I was gonna go to draft was that I couldn't do the benches and combine stuff.

So that really affected me. And I think I was like projected top thirty or something around there, and I felt like I could definitely improve and do another great year and go up and become a you know, top ten pick. That's always been my dream, you know, always want to be a top ten pick. And that's why I really that's really motivated me, and I felt confident what I had and what my coach has prepared me

for and the people around me. I feel like we're gonna have a way better here, not knowing you know, COVID and all stuff is gonna happen. His goal for a senior year is to become a top ten pick, and he's feeling as optimistic as ever. I'll still recovering from pins in my hands, from broken down, and COVID here comes. They're like, yeah, I just go home and we just did one to two practices and they're like, I'm just getting started, and I'm like, wow, we gotta

go home now. COVID hit campuses across the country and Hammakah had to return home after justice first few practices. We're I'm going home for four or five months. I'm training my it off at home, working out with two coaches, going to two places just to be stayed, and I want to stay. After that delay, they canceled it. They

counsel our season. The PAC twelve conference initially calls off the entire year, then as the pandemic situation becomes clearer, they eventually decided to play an abbreviated season all the players returned for fall camp with new COVID protocols, including a test every single morning. I woke up at six a five am to get tested at or the state, and the trainer came in and talk to me. I was in the meeting room, he was about to start doing meetings and he came in and he was like, heym,

I need you. He talked to you, and I'm like, hey, can you need to talk to me about right? And end up going downstairs with the trainer. He's like, you just power for COVID. You test positive, And I was like what. He's like, yeah, you need to go home right now, like right now, and walking home and didn't leave my house since then for four ten day and probably was the most terrible time every fourteen days ever And I'm like, what the heck? How right? And I'm like all I did was stay home and went to

go judge Mikes. So, so when we were at that time, from going to get some food and from back to practice or whatever, I got COVID. Somehow. He spent four straight months training at home and finally recovered from his broken thumb and then COVID. So I missed two weeks of all camp, then have to come back after COVID and play. You know, I felt like COVID pretty much hit me, and the hardest I would say, you know, I just have legs. You know you need you need legs.

You need legs to do everything you're doing for the wall, your legs over eight from a sack to her. You know, I feel like all that stuff matters, and it definitely mattered. Hammica's COVID recovery was slow and drawn out. He didn't have his usual first but once again he persevered. I didn't have to come back after COVID and play. Then

got hurt her my ankle pretty bad. Didn't try to just get ready for the season and rehabbing a lot of it and played a couple of games, just tore up and you know, I'm just do whatever it thinks. You're not trying to survive these couple of games. And it just wasn't great. And obviously I didn't get a lot of stats, as you know a lot of people wanted me to have and obviously hurt me. You know, this is the one and only topic NFL teams focused

on whenever Hammakah talks to them. What happened. They all want to know what happened to Hammaka. What happened was a string of injuries and illnesses. He wasn't able to play his best football. To his high school mentor coach Scott, it was also a case of game plan when he came back. You know, teams that already you know, understood if if this kid is back around us, what we have to do. He's way too strong, way too way

too fast for a single coverage. And so what the teams started doing is they started double teaming to keep him away from quarterbacks. So that was the biggest thing, was the adjustments that teams made against him. It wasn't anything that he did wrong because that that wasn't the case. But you know, your better teams aren't going to allow that to happen. You know, they learned about him and

they learned how to slow him down. So the question of what happened depends on who you ask and how much they know about the last six years of Hammaker's life. And when it comes to NFL scouts and executives, they want to know absolutely everything. A lot of meetings, but you know, every meeting, and I had two teams were talking about, how did I drove from fourteen stacks zero? That's pretty much where I had answered his whole drive time. And that's probably the jig question now, I mean I

asked injuries, double teams, COVID. Those are all part of what happened this past season, though the real answer goes all the way back to the little kid playing football in the streets of Phoenix, the one chasing down his older brothers, having the most fun as he crashes into kids all over the neighborhood. What happened this past season is something that's happened many times before. He had a very tough year. Football stopped being fun for a little while.

But the recurring story of Hammocka's life is that no matter what gets thrown at him, he always fights his way back. He's been through ups and downs like this many times before. Expectations were definitely high. Now I played my worst football ness last year because love injuries, not because no, I can't play great football. Next I'm drafted. It was to me it was like a death and I had the baby at the same time, Like, what

in the world just happening? I know, I just took my mic off and when I'm staring and I was hot. I'm just mad, come on, call my phone with somebody. Somebody called my phone. But originally when I saw him looking at his phone, like no, he's joking on my phone into that this is the movie, It's like, this doesn't happen, this isn't regular. So that's my that's my little catchphrase do for the movie. Packers hit me and

turned to hit me. I'm like, what I'm trying. That's when you have to push the motion to the side and say what are we gonna do best for him? From seeing people get drafted with like no names and like it's just it's just irritating. So I just broke down. He didn't hear me crying on my side of the phone, bro, but it was so unreal. Drafted is a production of tree Ford Media, Clutch Sports Group, and I Heart Radio. The executive producers are Kelly Garner, Lisa Ammerman, Eric Slott,

Eric Weiner, and Sewn t Toone. The series is produced and written by Eric Winer. Garme Mamalu is our coordinating producer. Coral Silverberg is our associate producer. Tom Monahan is our senior audio engineer. The show is mixed, edited, and hosted by me Steven Johnson, additional production help from Tim Shower

and Haley Mandelberg. For transcripts of the show and more information, undrafted quot to Tree for dot fm and for more podcasts for My Heart, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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