@DrWendyWalsh is teaching us about the science behind romantic chemistry, chatbots, and what does new relationship energy mean?

on relationships, wrote a dissertation on attachment theory. Isn't it crazy that attachment theory is now like the new astrological sign? Right producer Kayla, do you know that when you meet people, they go do you know your attachment style? That does happen? Do you know what your attachment style is? I don't want to say, oh oh oh, there we go, Brigida, do you know what your attachment style is? I think it's all the bad ones like ash is disorganized, a void.

I don't know. Are you reading my journal, Brigida? I think it literally is though, like sometimes I read those quizzes and I'm like, but I'm all of the above crazy across the board, you could be just sounds very disorganized. Uh And Raoul, do you know what your attachment style is? I have no idea. Okay, I think it's secure. I can just tell by looking at you. Doesn't he look like a kind of guy who has a secure attachment style?

call me kids. They're twenty one and twenty six, about to turn twenty two and twenty seven, and they go, Mom, what do we do doing for Easter? They call me and I say, I'm at Plate's, call me back later. And then I said, why don't you go get me breakfast because I'm prepping my show and reading some studies here. So they go to Noah's Bagels and they brought me a bagel with eggs in it and a coffee egg and cheese or something. That was my Easter. You know,

that's lovely. I did a lot of years of Easter egg hunts, the chocolates, the little fluffy dresses and all that stuff. It is, it is what it is when they hit a certain age. And my sweet Julio is in Florida with his mom, sweet mom, getting her packed up to help her move back to New York for the summer. So you know, we'll have to do celebrate our new beginnings. But what I do like about the holiday of Easter and this season, I like the fact my birthday's coming up in ten days. That's really what

I like. But it always feels like new beginnings. I loved garden, so I love things sprouting and growing, and you know, it's a time of new beginnings. So I'm optimistic about it. I want to talk a lot little bit about romantic chemistry. People use the term, they throw it around all the time, like we didn't have chemistry,

we didn't really have chemistry. And I know that sometimes when people use the term, they're talking about sexual chemistry, not necessarily romantic chemistry, right, Believe it or not, there's very little research on what romantic chemistry is until now a new study out of York University in Toronto by Alexandra Leipman and her colleagues. They basically said, well, instead of us looking from the outside to see if people had romantic chemistry, let's just do a survey and let's

ask people what is to them defines romantic chemistry. So they came up with nine things. I'm going to start at the bottom. Okay, the things that are least important. You're going to be pretty surprised. Only six percent of respondents said that physiologic having a physiological response around somebody that includes butterflies in the stomach, nervousness, beating, heart exciting

around them, this is not romantic chemistry. Apparently, only six percent of the people included that in their answers, but twenty four percent of the people included intense fixation feelings of intense focus with each other. We want to be with each other all the time. Now, this is a danger. By the way, if both people have an anxious attachment style, then they become enmeshed and nobody can remember whose problem is who's And yeah, you guys use the word codependent,

but that's not a real term. But anyway, it's enmeshed and yeah, not good. But if you know, it feels romantic to be fixated on somebody. Surprisingly, only twenty eight percent of the people who did the survey said sexual attraction was part of romantic chemistry. So if the couple want to have the same wants and desig when it comes to intimacy, they call that sexual attraction. Now Here,

Now we're moving up on what's more important. To people who participated in the study, thirty one percent called romantic chemistry an unexplainable spark. Well, that explains it. That explains it. An unexplainable spark. They called it magical and unexplainable. It means that the other person has the same vibrations. I don't know how do researchers study, how do we quantify that? How can you figure it out? Okay? Moving up the scale, thirty six percent were of sound mind when they answered

this question, what does romantic chemistry mean to you? Thirty six percent said similarity feeling like my partner. We think alike, we act to light, we share a lot of common interests. I've actually said this to my husband, Julio, I go, you know, the one thing of all the relationships I've had in my life. He hates it when I say this. Ah, all of them short ones, the long ones, the tall ones. No, there were many relationships I've had in my life. He's

the one that I share the most values with. Our values are emphasis on what's important, like our kids come first. Is the same, right? All right? Moving on up from similarity, forty percent of the people say that romantic chemistry. What makes up a romantic cheistry is compatibility, feelings of togetherness. It means they match each other really well. So compatibility, though and similarity are pretty similar, right. But also compatibility is more like we just get along, right, We're not

sniping at each other. It's just like we kind of gel right. But I love what happens when we start to really move up the scale. Here the last three things. I think the researchers from York University are really onto something. Comfort. Forty one percent of people said romantic chemistry feels like comfort, feeling at ease, getting to be yourself, finding it really easy to communicate, not feeling negative, not being afraid to share the most intimate parts of yourself, just being comfortable.

You know, I've always said this that when I've been in relationships that were friggin' roller coasters, a highs and lows and ups and downs and pain and exhilaration and everything in between, when you actually finally have a secure attachment, it just feels like peace. It feels calm, it feels safe, all right. The last two forty eight percent of the people said mutuality. I love this. Feelings of mutuality included

reciprocity and responsiveness. Okay, that means if you text somebody, they text you back, you do something nice for them, they do something nice for you. That's called reciprocity. That is romantic chemistry. But the number one thing, ding ding ding ding ding ning go the bell the number one definition of romantic chemistry that people put on their survey, Sixty four percent of the people said it is positive interaction.

It included positive feelings, a sense of connection, just enjoying each other and feeling like you have a positive emotional connection with them, So no more mystery. That's what romantic chemistry is. Having a positive experience, being having reciprocity back and forth, caring for each other, feeling safe and comfortable. That's what it's about. Now. Another aspect, a very basic human need besides things like you know, food, shelter, warmth.

Also on that list is something called belonging. We all need to feel that we belong. Lately, some people who are living in kind of isolation, living alone, are using chat bots chatbots, yeah, chat chept to try to have a sense of belonging. So when we come back, I want to talk about this. Do you think it's possible? I don't know. I'll explain what a sense of belonging

is and you can decide for yourself. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show and KFI AM six forty were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

judgment free, you know, free exactly. But I kind of it's weird that they get chatty, I know, ask follow up questions like yeah, you just want them to just give you the information because you're not supposed to use it like a Google search, which I'll say, I'll say, get me the name of the study done out of UC Davis blah blah blah, and they'll go, oh, yes, that was a delightful study by doctor dah da DAA.

I'm like, okay, don't get so chatty with me. Were friends and would you like me to summarize it for you, and no just needed the name. Okay, I know well. Plenty of people confide in their phones to the robots, and it does feel sometimes that these robots do get us, They remember our preferences. They often give us comforting replies.

By the way, I've actually asked them for as a joke, relationship advice for my husband and I while he's they are watching and he's like, you're not really asking the bro I'm like, yes, I want to know how we get through this confract. I'll say I'm feeling a little bored with my husband, what should we do for excitement? And He'll be like, well, I can comment on a few things, but not much, and I should leave that up to the two of you. Right, It's like having

a third person, like sitting there with you. Robots don't argue with you. It does feel like friendship, but to many people it feels even deeper. So here's a question. Can a relationship with artificial intelligence actually fulfill this very basic human need to belong? Now, first, let's talk about what belonging is. We know we have a hierarchy of needs. We need food, water, air, air. Let's start with the air. Air. Did you know you can live without air for what

about thirty seconds? You can live without water for about three days. You can live without food for thirty days, just letting it. There's how the hierarchy goes. We also need shelter, we need warmth, and then we need at a certain point, belonging. It's a primal human drive. When we do not feel connected to others, when we feel left out, when we feel unloved, it hits our brain like a physical pain. It can affect our physical health,

our mental well being, and even shorten our lifespan. I don't have to tell you, I've said it enough on this show. Loneliness has been shown to be as dangerous as smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. Right, we are social creatures. We are meant to be in a group. Our worst fear, let's go back to our ancient past when we were hunters and gatherers, would be to be exiled from the tribe, left alone in the wilderness to survive or not. Right, So, some people say that bots can actually replace or give

at least some feeling of a sense of belonging. Now, this whole idea of sense of belonging was created by psychologists Baumeister and Leery, and they said there are two really big conditions that need to be met in order for someone to have a fulfilled sense of belonging. So now I want you to think about the robot when you think about these two conditions. One is frequent positive interactions. Well, yeah, chat, shept,

We'll do that, frequent positive interactions. But wait. Number two, the relationships must be marked by stability and mutual emotional concern. You know, AI is intelligence, it's not emotional, right, it'll give you the illusion right that it's always available, it's not going to criticize you. It can feel really positive, but it really falls when it comes to stability and mutual emotional concern. Because real belonging, a real sense of belonging,

involves mutual care. It means that somebody really values you and if you reached out, they would be there for you. Now, there is some research that we don't have many people in our circle who could actually fulfill that. But if you have at least two people in your life that you know you could call at three in the morning and say hey, I need your help, or you could call any day and say, hey, I need a ride to the airport. Right, No one wants to do that

for anybody. But if someone will do that in your life, then you know that you have stability and mutual concern. So the question is is it dangerous? Is it wrong? Is it harmful to be chatting away with the chatbot? I'm telling you we all kind of do it a little bit, and for some people it really is a lifeline. Can ease anxiety, it can offer comfort, it can even soothe people. But you got to remember, if you're thirsty, you don't want to drink too much salt water, right,

you want to drink fresh water. So let's talk about if you are addicted to the robot. May not even be addicted, but if your main emotional connection is to a robot. I never thought we'd be saying this, right. I heard years ago that, remember, China had the one child rule for years in the seventies or eighties. Now they're backtracking because a population is going down and girls aren't having babies. But sadly, I'm sorry to say, people were terminating female fetuses at a much higher rate, so

they ended up with an oversupply of males. When you have an oversupply of males, in a culture, violence goes up. Didn't you see those cans on the beach and Barbie? They were fighting like crazy, right, And so China had introduced cloud girlfriends and there were operating stems that had seven hundred different boyfriends and they would learn their ways and whatever. I never thought would be this place here in America, but it's starting. So here's what I want

you to do. Instead of saying hello to the robot, text a friend and simply say hey, I'm just thinking about you, just thinking about you, get a response from a real human. Join a group, any group, especially a group that meets regularly. I don't care if it's a fitness class, a garden club, a book club, a wine tasting group. I like that one. I used to go to a cooking class all the time. It was like recreational cooking, and I met so many people there. It

was really fun. And practice being just a little bit more open in all your human conversations. Let people see more of you. Be a little vulnerable, Be a little honest, because remember, real intimacy isn't perfect. It is reciprocal, but it's human, right, It's messy, it involves risk. Be vulnerable. You can do this all right? When we come back. I was asked this week by a reporter to describe

new relationship energy and whether it's good or bad. Look, if you're in a new relationship, I do not want to burst your bubble, but you're gonna want to listen to this when we come back. You're listening to Dodor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

number onto TikTok, they either they disappear the COMMENTO. They don't disappear me, but they disappear the comment. So I'm gonna say it out loud a few times, and you guys might want to write it down. Maybe one of you could put it in the comments and see what happens. I don't know the numbers. One eight hundred and five two zero one five three four. After the segment, that's one eight hundred five two zero one KFI and I'll be answering your relationship questions. Okay, So this week I

was asked by a reporter to define new relationship energy. Well, it's a lot like the honeymoon phase. I call new relationship energy that delicious beginning of a relationship. It's a slang term for something that psychologist Dorothy Toff once identified back in the seventies. She identified something called limerence. Limmerence is an emotional state that involves very intense feelings where you feel really infatuated with somebody. You can't get enough

of them, to be with them all the time. You have a physiological response when you're with them or you're thinking about them. It could be in your stomach, the butterflies, et cetera. It's also filled with healthy delusions. There's tons of research on this. At the very beginning of a relationship, love is a drug, delicious drug. Okay. It is a cocktail of neuro hormones that feels so good. It is the best drug we have. If you are newly in love,

I would never want to burst your bubble. However, when you're on that cocktail, you're not thinking too clearly and you can't, which is one of the reasons I always say you've got to introduce a perspective mate to your tribe pretty quickly because they'll weigh in with the truth at some point. Right, So, I know. The question that comes up a lot is how long does this drug last? How long does this new relationship energy last? And the answer is it It depends. It depends on frequency of

contact and the kind of contact. So, if you're somebody who falls in love very quickly and you meet somebody new and you have sex very quickly, and you're talking or texting every single day, okay, that is going to crash and burn pretty quickly. Now, if you're somebody who's kind of a slow burn when it comes to love, you can actually have this state of Limerens last a lot longer. Now, people who have online only relationships, those

digital relationships, we don't call those parasocial relationships. What will we call those? We should make up a name for those. Kayla is like, so, a parasocial relationship is one that you have with a celebrity or a social media person where it's not reciprocal. They don't really know who you are. They're not really giving back, but you have these strong feelings of attachment or love or attraction to them. That's

a para social relationship. But what if there's a person on the other end of the keyboard and they're responding to you, but the relationship is mostly about your mutual projections, your project your fantasies of who each other really is. Right, That's why it's really important you get in the real world pretty quickly. But anyway, there's some people who have I didn't know you can do this. On TikTok. They put a cowboy hat and a mustache on me.

make a full commitment. And there's all kinds of neuroscience behind it. Right when two people meet and they're attracted to each other, there is, as I said, these neuro hormones that create this feeling of love. It's euphoric, it feels wonderful, and this is a crucial feeling to bringing people together. If they do eventually stay together for the long time, it's a time when they make some decisions, decisions to have sex, decisions to maybe be exclusive, decisions

to introduce somebody to their friends and relatives. That's a pro right, and also it's important to remember it's not all fake. It's not all delusions because during this important limerence phase, you're doing a checklist of everything that's right and wonderful about this person. So then when your brainy it's used to the hormones and they don't work quite as strongly and everything starts to flatten out a bit. You can still remember all the good things. Now, the

cons are some of it is fake. Right. You might misinterpret somebody's narcissism as self confidence. You might misinterpret somebody's anxious attachment style as passion and real love right because they're showing it's moving so quickly, right, And you might learn later that they have a completely dependent personality. You might meet somebody and you say, oh, I love that

they're so artsy and they don't care. They're not materialistic, they don't care about our culture's need for money, and then you find out later it's because they're dependent on

other people for money and they want yours. Right. So another con is that when you're in this drug like state new relationship energy, there is a risk that you could move way too fast and make some major life decisions that you shouldn't be making, like getting married too quickly, buying a house, or God forbid someone becoming pregnant, right, Because what happens is after it starts to die down, you peel the layers of the onion or the person and you start to see who they really are. So

it's an important first step in bonding. Don't get me wrong. I would never want to burst somebody's bubble at the beginning. If I had any advice, I would say, within a few weeks, it's a good idea to get out of your cocoon and introduce this person to other people in your life and let them way in. I think it's

really important. There was one guy I had limerens with for a few weeks, and so I invited him to dinner at my house and I invited a girlfriend over to have dinner, and after the evening she called me. She goes, that dude never even acknowledged me or looked at me all night. He was so rude, and I didn't even notice because he was so busy, like la la la, He's so great, and I was talking to him right all right. When we come back, I am

going to begin taking your calls. If you would like to give me a call, I am live right now on KFI AM six forty, Los Angeles. We are in iHeartRadio station. The number is I can't post it on TikTok, so you gotta gotta memorize it. Say again, you commented twice. Producer Kayla comment it twice and the phone number should be there, which is one eight hundred five two zero one KFI. That's one eight hundred five two zero one five three four. I am a psychology professor, not a therapist.

I've written three books on relationships. I have a lot of life wisdom and I would love to weigh in on your love life. One eight hundred five two zero one five three four. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.

and vice versa. However, the thing is, I'm fifty eight and she is twenty nine, and I wanted to know if this would work. I know you'd probably have daddy issues of what it was.

to be a short term relationship. Thank you for calling, Greg, and good luck to you. I hope it works out. When I say workout, I mean I hope you meet in the real world at least once. That's work out for me. All right, Producer, Kyla, who do we have next?

Probably not, but it's still a nice gesture because women perceive protection from a man as a very attractive trait. So Tanya witnessed this young man doing it at she complimented him. Thank you so much, Thank you so much for doing that, Tanya. All right, I'm also going to be answering your social media questions. The number is one eight hundred five to zero one five three four. If you'd like to call one eight hundred five two zero one five three four. Let me go to my DMS

and see what I got. Dear doctor Wendy, WHOA, this is a heavy one. My ex got a restraining order against me. It was many years ago. I was in my twenties and couldn't properly handle my emotions. I grew from this. I like to be honest about it. However, when I tell a woman whom I'm dating about my past, they pull away from me. I get ghosted, cut off, dumped. What can I do? You know what, dude, you are doing the right thing, and let me tell you this.

You probably I don't know if you saw me propose on live radio to my now husband Julio, who has experienced incarceration in his life. Right, ten percent of American men will experience incarceration, and the vast majority are not violent criminals. It's not violent crimes. Many of them are experiencing from weed, which is now legal. Right, So I

think you're doing the right thing. I'm going to ask that you probably meet them once without telling them the story, just for coffee, and then develop an emotional connection with them, not by text by phone calls, where you slowly start to disclose intimate things and they disclose intimate things about

their life. And you know what I said to Julio on our very first coffee date is, hey, listen, we could sit here and brag about like how great we are, but why don't we start by talking about how undateable we are. So the stories came out very early, but for most people, you wait till you build a little bit of safety and then you say, hey, you know, let's share a story about something we're ashamed about that

might have happened a long time ago. What you're trying to do is find a partner with empathy and understanding and don't be filled with shame continuously for this. I'm so sorry this is happening to you, all right, Dear doctor Wendy. Guy, Oh, how's our time? Do we have to go to break? Oh? We have one minut quit if you'd like to call in the numbers one eight hundred and five two zero one five three four. Dear doctor Wendy. A guy I'm dating is really bad at communicating, really?

Or is he just a dude? Sorry? I told him I have an issue with this. He apologized and promised to do better. He did better for half a day and then got right back to his old ways. Is this something I should be patient with or should I walk away? I'm a huge issue with his lack of responses. Okay, So the research out there shows that if you dismiss somebody, give them the side treatment. That is the number one thing that leads to divorce in marriage or breakups if

you're not married. And so, what's interesting is you said he did better for half a day and then stop. So he you know, how's the ability to write? It's not like he's not neurotypical, or is missing some social cues, or is just a big introvert. I think the conversation next should be about why can you help me? And not accusatory. You don't respond to me, and I don't like that. That's an issue for me. That's not going

to make somebody open up. How about something like, you know, when I say something and then you don't respond, I feel kind of dismissed or abandoned. Can you help me understand what your intention is? That's what you say to start the conversation. You don't just get rid of them, all right, Dear doctor Wendy, How do I break the cycle of seeing my interest isn't treating me right? But my logic disappears when he calls and then we hook. I'm so sorry. I get on cloud nine. He reminds

me that he really doesn't like me. Should I go no contact? Let me tell you you're hurting yourself. And for some reason you want to give yourself this pain. I suggest you get a good licensed therapist who can help you understand the why behind it, because when you understand why you're giving yourself this gift of pain, then you'll be able to change. Yes, I would say, as your old auntie, go no contact, but that's only going to last until you meet another one who treats you that bad,

and then you're gonna want him again. Right, You're gonna want that one too. You know, our model for love is formed very early in life, partly genetic and partly how we were treated by our primary caregivers in the first three years of life. And so love isn't about finding pleasure. Love isn't about finding happiness. Love is about finding the familiar, the familiar, and so your therapist will help you figure out what happened early in life to make you want to give this kind of pain to yourself.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, all right. When we come back, I'm going to continue to answer your social media questions and take your calls. The numbers one eight hundred five two zero one KFI. That's one eight hundred five two zero one five three four. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've

been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear us live on KFI AM six forty from seven to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app