This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI AM six forty the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on demand on the iHeartRadio App.
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy.
Wall Show on k I AM six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio App. Okay, I gotta address it because every late late night comic has talked about it. There are articles where psychologists are weighing in about it. People are fan girling over this. Luigi Maggione, Kayla, why are girls falling in love with an assassin?
Did you see him with his shirt off?
Nope?
Did you hear about his height? Did you see those eyebrow policy? I heard six to two? What yes, ma'am.
An Ivy League Education sixty two? Oh my goodness. Well, I thought, since the world is doing it, that we would try to do we would play. Look, I'm a psychology professor, and I asked my students to do this in a DIMS all the time. Let's play armchair psychologist for Luigi MAGGIONI. Okay, First of all, he can't claim he's insane, So that you understand that the legal definition of insane is very different than our general definition of
having a mental disorder. Right, the legal definition of insane means that they're incompetent to stand trial.
Right.
It means that their mental illness involves such impairments of their thinking that they can't even understand the trial process and they can't assist in their own defense.
I don't think that's him, right, I mean, no, he's pretty smart. Yeah, he's pretty smart.
So the thinking, according to the Internet and the psychologists that are weighing in in the news stories, is that he has one of three personality disorders. So I thought we would go through the various personality disorders. I would look up the DSM criteria, that's the diagnostic and statistic and manual of mental disord and we would together, if you're listening, try to diagnose Luigi Maggioni, because everybody else in America is all right, the big one. Let's start
off with narcissistic personality disorder. I know half the women on the Internet think that they are dating a man with a narcissistic personality disorder, but just because somebody's low in empathy, and that may just mean ladies, he's a
typical heterosexual male. No, there's research on this you guys that men actually have less empathy, And I think, if I'm thinking about it, you know, from an evolutionary standpoint, I would say it's because back in our hunter gatherer past, these hunters had to stare into the eyes of a living animal before they killed it right between the eyes with a spear, and they had no time for empathy at that moment. So there's a little spillover there, all right.
But the actual criteria for a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder, which is estimated more men than women have it, but it's still in like two maybe three percent of the population. Okay, ladies, I hear. That's still three out of one hundred guys that you date. And like everything, it's a scale. But what it is is a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, either in a belief system like they just believe they're better
than everybody else, or behavior they need admiration. Stop thinking about our president intellecture saying they have a lack of empathy. And here's the key for a true narcissistic personality disorder. All this pattern has to begin early, but not in childhood, usually early adulthood. And I should tell you this narcissists usually give birth to narcissists, not because it's genetic, but they learn it. It's modeled for them, and it may
have a genetic piece. I mean, every mental thing is partly biology and partly what's going on in our environment. So some of the core symptoms are a grandiose sense of self importance. Okay, Luigi does he think? Does he exaggerate his achievements or his talents? Does he expect to be recognized as a superior. Let's think about this for a minute.
I don't know. I mean, I think he does have talents.
He got good grades, he was a high achiever, valedictorian, member of this special computer group at Penn.
At Penn, he's at an IVY league. I know he's actually doing it right.
Also a symptom might be preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, brilliance, power, beauty, belief that they are special or unique. I have not heard any of the friends that have weighed in about Luigi say that he thought he was special or unique unless he kept it all inside. So another one might be this need for excessive admiration. Again, I don't really think Luigi has this need then this sense of entitlement.
Perhaps I just not hearing it. Lack of empathy, oh yeah, unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others. If you are able to murder somebody, I don't think you have strong empathy. Right then arrogant, haughty, or just have attitudes where you think you're just cool.
Again. I just don't see that this is our Luigi.
If I were a psychologist, I would not give him this diagnosis.
Okay, let's move to another one.
Some psychologists in the media are saying that he may have borderline personality disorder. Okay, so I definitely don't think this is him. So it's defined as a pervasive pattern of an instability in interpersonal relationships marked impulsivity. I don't think he was impulsive here. Think you planned this and it begins in early adulthood. Okay, but you have to have five or more of the following symptoms. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
That's not our Luigi. He abandoned everybody else, he went to Hawaii and lost touch.
That's not like how a borderline I mean, yeah, a borderline would be hit. Let's see a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships. No, he didn't really have a lot of close interpersonal relationships, not like you know, like people that are borderline are like drama. Queens create drama. There's fights and conflicts and then rushing to get back together. The highs the lows. No, an identity disturbance. Maybe persistently unstable self image or sense of self. Yes, especially once
he got into a lot of pain. Oh but wait, recurrent suicidal behavior. Uh, chronic feelings of emptiness, maybe inappropriate or intense anger or difficulty controlling anger. We don't have never heard any reports that he had an angry outbursts in the past. Back to you, seemed pretty calm when he committed that murder. I just don't know. I'm not good and give him borderline. If I'm going to be
an armchair, I'm not going to do it. So let's go to the one that I think many of the psychologists have weighed in is the diagnosis that Luigi might have if somebody were actually to interview him and figure it out. It's called the anti social personality disorder. Let's talk about the details when we come back. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM six forty.
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty, Live everywhere on.
The iHeartRadio app.
Well, I am joining the chorus of lay people psychoanalyzing Luigi MAGGIONI, the would be assassin, the alleged, the arrested.
For Well, actually, has he been arrested, has he back in New York? Has he extracited already? I don't know where he is?
Trying to figure out what personality disorder he might have. So let's be armchair psychologists, shall we. Remember I'm not a therapist, I'm a psychology professor. I do teach about each of these disorders and what qualifies as a diagnosis. So the one I think most applies to him is anti social personality disorder. But there's a big butt and it's coming off coming in a second. It's a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others.
Here's the key occurring since the age of fifteen years. Okay, that might be it, But let's talk about you have to have three or more of the following traits. Number one, failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors, as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
Well, that's not him.
We have he had no police record, no problems, no, repeatedly that wasn't happening. Deceitfulness as indicated by repeated lying. Oh, use of aliases, Oh oh yeah, he was using another id, conning others for personal profit or pleasure.
Okay, so there's one. He's got to get three.
Number three impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
That is not him. He planned.
If he did commit that murder, he planned it very well. Number four irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults. Nope, not him, So only have one so far. We've got to have three. Number five, reckless disregard for the safe of self or others. Yeah, I think if you pull the trigger on somebody, that would be reckless disregard for their safety.
So we got two.
Next, consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations. We don't know the answer about that. We know his work has been spotty, we don't know about it. We haven't heard that he ripped people off or didn't pay rent or any of that stuff. So I'm not going to give that one to him, but I will give him this next one.
Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Ding Ding ding Ing.
I think we might have the armchair diagnosis. A lack of remorse, reckless disregard for the safety of others, and failure to conform to social norms. Oh deceitfulness. No, anyway, that would be criteria for anti social personality disorder.
But guess what.
You can't actually be given this diagnosis unless under the age of fifteen you had something that's called a conduct disorder. So, in other words, in order to have this personality disorder, it had to have started in school when there were all kinds of problems with teachers or what have you, and we don't have any evidence of this. So it made me start to think maybe this is all coming about because of his pain, his physical pain after his back surgery. It made me wonder, can chronic pain create
a mental health disorder? Well, it's a two way street, of course, is that chronic pain can impact our mental health, just as mental health can cause chronic pain.
Right, it is.
Some of the things that chronic pain is linked to is depression, anxiety disorders, post traumatic stress disorder, if the pain happened from something that was a danger thing. Substance use disorders. We don't know about his substance use sleep disorders, insomnia or poor quality sleep. We don't know about this, cognitive impairment, brain fog again, especially if he's taking opioids.
This could be a problem. But you got to remember, pain and mental health is by we call it bi directional, right, So chronic pain can cause mental health problems. Mental health problems can cause chronic pain. So it's going to take some time. I'm sure his lawyers are going to argue that he had some degree of mental illness. Now, if I were a lawyer, now I'm going to stop being armchair Psychologies is not going to be armchair lawyer. I didn't go to law school. I have no idea what
I'm saying right now. But here's the case I present, and again I'm defending him. So that's my job as a lawyer. It doesn't mean I believe what I'm saying. Does I mean I think he's a good guy? Okay, he's an assassin, we think. I mean, everybody is guilty until innocent, until proven guilty. But boy, there's a lot
of footage of this one. Anyway, I would say, uh, if I was building a case that he if it's true that he had tried to get help for his chronic pain, that the back surgery didn't work, he needed a revision surgery, his health care wouldn't cover it.
Maybe they'll find out he was with United health Care. I don't know.
It's he spent many months attempting to get out of the pain, and so he acted out in a way to hurt the person that was hurting him. He believed in his fantasies it was the CEO of the company. And so the trial, which will likely be in the news for a very long time, might be an indictment of health insurance companies. And you know, we're seeing this
voice of people rise up complaining online about this. I don't know, Maybe there's so much going on in our country and our culture right now, and trying to make sense of right and wrong and good and bad and health and unhealth is so difficult. When we come back, I have a guest who's a reporter who's been covering sort of the fallout from some of the pledges made by President elect Donald Trump when it comes to trans kids, and he has a few thoughts on how people are
feeling in this particular climate. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI AM six forty.
Well, the map is the Doctor.
Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty, Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Well, many of you know that I am a professor of health psychology, and and as part of it, I do a lecture on gender, not only gender identity, but also gender role and also sexual orientation,
three distinct concepts. By the way, it is something that is in the news a lot lately because President elect Donald Trump has previously pledged to bar transgender athletes from competing in women's and girls' sports and to band gender affirming care for minors, and this week the Supreme Court is considering it. I would like to welcome a reporter who has been following this story closely, Wellington.
Sarah, So I know i'd mess it up.
Wellington, say your full name beautifully. Thank you for having me, and you are a writer for Chalkbeat, amongst other places, and talk to me a little bit about what's happening with families and those in the transgender can unity as we get closer to inauguration.
Berb, thank you so much for having me. Doctor Wendy Well. Right after the election, we started talking to families and reaching out to students and their families and their communities to understand how they were feeling after the election. So what we heard is that a lot of groups, a lot of teenagers, especially students, they're really concerned regarding what
President elect Donald Trump has played during the campaign. But we have also seen a lot of students and families that are really looking for solutions and looking to good community and looking for ways to kind of like resist any type of change or any type of policies that
may come into place right after inauguration. So I would say that what we're seeing is a mix of a little bit of fear, a little bit of disillusion, but also a lot of people trying to build community and kind of like create a space that is safe, even though they don't feel as safe in the political environment right now.
You know, I have this theory that the older politicians and so many of our politicians are much older, and the younger generation in America are two distinct cultures. You know, last night, I was actually at a party and I was talking to two public school teachers and they were talking about how, you know, just you know, a decade ago, you didn't see kids affirming their gender identity, being non binary at the elementary school level, talking comfortably about same
sex relationships. It's almost like they are free, and yet there is this older generation that seems to be trying to put constraints. As an observer of culture, what do you think of that?
I think you're absolutely right. I've been or cancer journalists for twelve years now, and I've covered this issue back in Brazil and now here in the US, and I see exactly what she meant. So ten years, twelve years ago, when I started reporting, I would go to a school, I would try and talk to students and this would not be a topic that was so vibrant within the community. But as years went by, now you can see pretty much every school, you will see students that are more
comfortable with opening up about who they are. And in this I just wanted to make sure that I'm being clear that what used to happen before is not that those people, those students didn't exist. It's just that they didn't feel as comfortable coming out and talking about it until later on. And what we've been saying is that families in the community is a little more welcoming, and so students are also feeling more open to talk about who they are, how they feel, and how they want
to live their lives. But definitely that has caused also some kind of like backlash and a lot of resistance from people who are not really used to it or don't quite understand what's happening.
And I just want to clarify for some of our listeners who might not be fully informed about trans people, that there is a population of intersex and now I'm using a biological term intersex humans that has existed since the beginning of time.
People born with features of both sexes.
It is possible to be born with a penis and overstucked inside. It is possible to be born with evolva and undescended testes, and at puberty then we get secondary sex characteristics that may tell a very different story. And so I think it is important that we allow people to be as free as they want to be along their journey. But there are many people, and I'm sure you've interviewed them, who are afraid of this.
Can you talk about that?
Yes, Well, what we see now is just there is a source of mind that used to say that sexuality, engender identity is as diverse as the number of people that we have in the world. I think we're eight billion now, so there's like eight billion different types of how to leave your gender identity or in your sexuality.
And a lot of people they realize really early on that they do not feel the way that this sex that was assigned to im a birth makes should be right so or what people think that it should be. And a lot of the students today, a lot of the teenagers, they are really feeling a little more comfortable with understanding that and kind of like trying to explore that, and what you see is a lot of trans people, so people who at one point say, well a boy
and a girl or vice versa. But you also see a lot of kids that grow up and are still exploring. So you would see like teenagers that's having teen eighteen that are like, well, I'm not sure if I want to have one of the two genders at all, And well, that has a lot of implications. Sometimes housewives with puberty blockers and medicines and actually healthcare that helps them assign
affirm the gender that they identify with. And sometimes it's just a more like a society issue on how they dress or how they present themselves and things like that. So yes, absolutely there's teenagers and kids that are kind of like identifying with multiple different gender identities, and each one of them has one way of affirming that, either medically or non medically, depending on what also left their parents and their family is para comfortable with them.
You know, I do think that we as a culture need to stay out of these families. I think that government should stay out. I think this is a question for doctors and their patients, for families and their patients. I know the fear of many parents and that is the fear of the small percentage that are experiencing social contagion, which you know we can't lie. That is a piece of it as well, But I think it's about individual
families more than having governments be involved. So I just want to say thank you for continuing to follow this story Wellington. It will be fascinating to see you know, President elect Donald Trump loves to say things and then not do them, so it will be very interesting to see how this all pans out after he is inaugurated.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you so much for having us, and please stay tuned and read what we're posting on talkbe dot org and we're definitely going to be following up that story and many other different stories on education.
Thank you and thank you for listening to The Doctor Wendy Walls Show. This brings the show to a close. If you'd like to follow me on social media, you may The handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh. But I'm always here for you every Sunday on KFI. You've been listening to The Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI Am six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've been
listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear us live on KFI Am six forty from seven to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app