You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand KFI AM six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Wealsh Show. If you're new to my show, I have a PhD in clinical psychology. I'm a psychology professor, but I've written three books on relationships because I'm obsessed with the science of love. I want you to sit back. For the next two hours, we are going to talk about things like the psychological benefits
of your online community. Maybe you are having friends online and if that's good for you or not. The Golden Bachelorette start to get a little caddy. I would be remiss. Also if I did not talk about Jada and Will Smith's marriage, and also if you're in the dating market, how to find love without having a hook up. There's a way. I want to say hello to everybody. Mark Ronno, we got you in the newsroom. Glad to be back. Good to see you back. Rowell, you're on the
board. You're going to be watching the timer for me because I go off. You know how I do right? And producer Ka La, how are you one for Doctor Lindy. I saw you this week at lunch and it was so nice, I know. So here's what happened. I wanted to talk about online communities because I had an experience with my own online community today and before I or this week. But before talking about it, I just want to say that, you know, human beings have evolved to need networks,
We need tribes, we need a feeling of belonging. And one of the best things about the Internet for many people is that you can create a community with people who have shared interests and you have a bond based on this interest, right, And so that's good and bad because we do know that there are people who bond over negative things and that's not a good thing, but also some people bond over positive So during COVID, when everybody was on
social media a lot, I decided to start a little Patreon community. It's a website where you can, you know, just pay a small token fee every month and get to come on live streams and zooms but like with your face, like cameras open, like everybody chatting, like one of the school classes I teach, And mostly it's about the science of love. And what's interesting is, uh, the ones that not only some of the early adopters, but the ones that stayed for a very long time tended to be well,
you couldn't classify them. You couldn't classify them by age, gender, sexual orientation, or even zip code or country because they're from all over the world. But the thing we share in common is this desire to be better relationship partners, to have better connections with everybody, the people we work with, our children, et cetera. So every week I kind of propose a
topic and that's where we start off. It's like a book group without a book, although we're actually reading a book now, and so we just sort of weigh in on. I give my opinion on the topic, then other people give their opinion. Every once in a while, people will talk about what they're going through personally, so they have sort of a brain trust of you know, advisors, you know, people who are just supportive and have compassion and just want to give like, you know, life advice from their
own experience, so to speak. So here's what happened this week. We have never I've never ever ever met anybody from my Patreon community live in the real world. Now, a few weeks ago, or maybe it was last week, Kayla, we were talking about how strange it feels when you meet a KFI listener for the first time, because if they've been listening to me for years, they feel like they know me so well, but yet my
eyes are taking in a complete stranger, so it's very disjointed. It sometimes feels uncomfortable because there's this instant familiarity and these people are lovely, You're all wonderful. I love k If I listen, I want to be clear, but if it's just something happens in my brain because I'm like, like, this is like strange. I want to connect with this person, but they feel like they're so close to me, but I haven't earned it, or
have I I don't know. But what's different about this group is we've had cameras on for almost two years now. What precipitated us getting together for a luncheon that Kayla attended as well because they all wanted to meet producer Kayla they hear her voice on the phone on the radio from time to time. Is two of our people in our group flew from Australia. They had other reasons to be in America, but they made a special stop to La so they
could meet the group. Some people drove hours and hours to be here. A lot were Cafe listeners from Orange County and different places, and it was just for me. They weren't strangers. They really were not strangers, because we've had cameras on for two years and there was sort of the only new discovery I think was that they all learned I was tall. They kept mentioning that I was tall, because when you're doing zooms, everyone's sitting down and
you really can't tell. So except for height, there was no new news about anybody, I think. So I actually wanted to have one of our Patreon and KFI listeners come on and talk about what the experience was like for her. So do we have Elizabeth there on the phone. Hi, Elizabeth,
Hello, how are you good? So before we talk about the luncheon and what that experience was like for you, yes, tell me about you know, how you came to find the Patreon group, like you've been a long time CAFI listener, right right, longtime KFI listener and of course listen to your show quite a bit, and then of course COVID comes right and usually I'm a sales rep on the road in my car all the time.
But then I was kind of stuck at home, and so what precipitated it was I was kind of looking to get back in the dating game, and of course, you know, you were talking about your Patreon group and talking about the science of love, and it all just sounded like some thing that I would be interested in, and I had lots of time, you know, to do this sort of thing. So yeah, so I tuned in
and the rest is history. But it was and isn't during COVID. Is it fair to say that this online community, even though you never met anybody in the real world, it felt like friends. It totally felt like friends. Everybody was so kind and so interesting, and like you said, everybody was from all over the world, Canada, Australia, we had some people
in Texas, New York. I was probably one of the closest you know, listeners, But yeah, it felt very familiar, and yeah, it was so exciting to meet everybody in person, but like you said, not too many surprises. I thought you were tall also, But yeah, it just was wonderful because it really helped me in the last two years Number one get through COVID, Number two sort of give me ideas getting back in the dating scene and just you know, all the great interesting things that we discussed.
I mean, it was it was. So I did some reading today on online communities and which ones are more psychologically successful to people. So can I ask you a few questions to see if our group sort of conforms with some of these things. So the first question is does your online community have a tribe factor, like a feeling of belonging. Yes, yes, yes, And how has that showed up? Yeah? And even though we're from
such different backgrounds, everybody was so supportive of one another. You know, we've got a lot of different personalities and backgrounds and things like that, but the core group that continually showed up. Everybody was so supportive. And here's another question. Our members do they care about each other enough that they help each other out? And I'm thinking about the member who had a loss this year. Yes, yes, I was going to agree with that completely.
I think that we helped her a lot. We got together and got her, you know something after her mother passed, and you know, we all felt very because we all have mothers and they're you know, everybody's sort of at that age range where we're going to be going through the same thing. So yeah, I think we kind of give each other emotional support for sure. And finally, let me ask this question. Does your online community feel like a safe place, a zone where you can be nurtured and grow?
Yes, definitely, definitely, because there's no judgment. Everybody just listens, they give advice if they have it that no one you know is negative. It's very positive. And I do want to add like, since I'm a teacher, I'm used to dealing with someone who talks too much or what doesn't put up their hand. So even I assume I'm a pretty good moderator, an't I. Oh, you're very good moderator, and you have your work cut out for you, because there are some people that talk a lot more
than others and they dominate the group. But I try to go around the horn and make sure everybody gets a chance, even the shy ones. Well, Elizabeth, it was a pleasure to meet you in person, and thank you for bringing all those cookies to lunch. Oh you are very welcome, and I hope we get to do it again soon. Exactly. I think we're all friends now. Thanks for calling in. Okay, when we come back, I'm going to keep up with me following the Golden Bachelorette because it
does not match human mating strategy. It literally goes against all relationships science. I'm going to talk about the Golden Bachelorette who left the show this week. And also just a reminder, as you're following all this fun stuff about the science of love, remember that here at KFI we are following the Israeli War closely, and we've got Mark Runner in the newsroom. If you missed it,
Steve Gregory did an amazing special called Israel War. So stay close to us because we're going to continue to keep you informed even as we talk about the things that are pressing in our own lives. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. I am six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walls Show. Are you following the Golden Bachelorette? I am because I just can't drive fast past a car wreck. It is so hard to watch, but I can't not look at it.
Oh, just in case you want to know, it's a guy named Gary from the Midwest who's a widower and he's getting to have these started with twenty two women fawn over him and behave like silly schoolgirls, even though they are smart, wise accomplished, grown women who you know, probably would never behave this way unless the producers told them to. So we're now down to week three, twelve women left. I just want to point out that I'm
still grossed out by the kissing. You know what I said to Julio today, like, we watched it again today. He put it on for me while I was prepping the show, and I said, it's not that I don't want to see people in their sixties and seventies kissing. That's an act of ageism. I've got to get used to it. Okay. What I don't like to see is the same man kissing a number of women in the same episode. You know what, I'm a little germ christ, That's all
it is. I'm like, would I want to swap spit with somebody that had just swapped spit with the girl down the hall. No, And that's what looks kind of gross to me. Well, the producers are doing their job right and making it watchable. This week, the cattiness starts. It starts with a woman named Kathy who has problems with a seventy year old woman named Teresa. She says Teresa wears her clothes too tight, and that Teresa is revealing too much about her dates with Gary and this is bothering Kathy.
The girls had a little, you know, a little head to head chat, and then of course Teresa ran out of the room crying, and the other one's consult I swear it was high school. She might as well have gone into the girl's bathroom. And the girls came around, and then Gary had to meet both the girls and calm them down, and it was like he was talking to three year olds. Well, if you know she really didn't mean it, then I think it's okay to still be her friend.
I was just like, really, is this where we are? First of all, I'm gonna say again, women of a certain age have a wide range of careers. Where the bankers, Where are the CEOs? Where are the doctors? Where are the lawyers? Where are the jet pilots? Oh, they're at work. So they couldn't take two months off their life to go on a show like The Golden Bachelor. Okay, so this week,
what they did they have to go through some kind of stunt. They did a talent show, cringeworthy as you can imagine women in their sixties and seventies performing for male so hopefully he would choose them for the one on one date. It was heartbreaking because it was a comedy show. Well one of them did do comedy and she was actually pretty funny. Another one did a very sexy dirty dance that just again it's like ladies, it does. It's not a good look. Not a good look. Okay, you can call me
agism, but I'm of that agent. I wouldn't do it. Didn't look right. There was bad singing and karate karate. One decided to teach sex ed because she's a sex ed middle school teacher, so it was a little body. One did a whole bunch of push ups. Basically, this talent show, I think, exploited these smart, wise, wonderful women and made them look crazy and insane. So of course there's one the camera catches all
the time who's literally disgusted. She doesn't even her thought bubble and her voice over top of her shots her saying I don't even want to do this, and this doesn't seem right and this is not for me, and I don't like to perform, et cetera. So she finally gets up and basically reads a nice poem about her own performance anxiety. Therefore, because she doesn't look crazy, she wins the one on one date. Okayla, you know who
she is. She's the sixty year old who actually looks the youngest and prettiest of them all. You say that she was gonna win last week, she's going to win mark where she's gonna win her I still feel it. And here's how they're going to do it. I don't know. I think like a producer. So her name is Joan Vassos. Remember that she's a school administrator, a mother of four, she has two grandchildren. She's sixty years old. Gary's seventy two, I think. And on Thursday's episode they had
a one on one date and can you hear me? Okay, because my mic is cutting in and out to me. It's not to you, okay, must be just me and my head side anyway, So they had a nice date, but then she gets a text from her adult daughter, who apparently gave birth a few weeks before the show and was having some postpartum issues and really needed her mom. So she decides to leave the show. So the oh Gary cries. Okay, but there's a lot of tears going on.
If you just met somebody and had one date, do you cry with tears going down your face because they left the show? I don't know. You think no it was Will Smith? Maybe yeah, So she wrote on her Instagram it's a privilege to be a mom to four amazing kids and a grandmother to two beautiful grandchildren. But once a mom, always a mom, and sometimes the timing doesn't work out when finding love. Then he had a second one on one date with a woman named Ellen. They had a glam
squad totally fix her up. She's one of the looks a little bit older than some of the others, but she looked gorgeous. They went for a limo, right, First of all, who rides and stretch limos anymore? Are these guys in the eighties, these producers, Maybe they think for their age they remember stretch limos as a thing, but they're not even in fashion anymore. And then they did the hot air balloon ride, which so you know the Bachelor does that all the time. Uh, here's my theory,
Joan, who I believe is gonna win it? The one who left the show and went home amidst all the tears, is going to come back. By the end of this season. We are going to see her say, well, I got everything in order at home. My daughter's doing well now I got her help. And it's right when Gary's down to two women and Joan's gonna show up as that ringer. That is a good plot that I think that's what's gonna happen, I really do. I also want to say
something else about those fantasy suites that I'm terrified about. So at the end, if you've never followed The Bachelor, when it gets down to just a few, I don't even know how many one, two, three, or four they go in an overnight together in a fantasy suite, and when they're young and hot, it is expected I think that they have sex. Well, I'm it's cringe worthy to me to think that he's going to go and three nights in a row, have three nights with different women. And there
are all kinds of physiological things that happened when you're older. You don't just jump in the sack. There's I mean, maybe he's got viagra, but maybe they have vaginal atrophy, maybe they've got pain. Maybe it's not gonna Yeah, there's all Kayla, don't look so shocked. There's stuff that happens scary when you get older. So jumping in. So, he apparently told us Weekly Magazine, because you know, the show's already taped in the can, that all he wanted to do is be supportive of all the women.
And what he said about the fantasy suite dates is that they are more emotional connections than physical ones. He said, I was happy how it turned out. Really just being able to have a conversation off camera was critically important. Right, So anyway, I'm going to continue to watch it for you so that maybe you don't have to. I don't know. It just breaks my heart to see women of a certain age being treated I don't know, so
disparagingly and being made fun of and exploited. It's not working for me. And if they think that their audience are women of that age, we're not liking it. Okay, we're just not liking it. All right. When we come back, I have a special guest, a former Real housewife of New York who's going to talk to us about mental health. You are listening to the doctor Wendy Walls Show on k I AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand
AFI AM six forty. You have doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walls Show. I am such a proponent of therapy. I myself am the recipient of on and off more than eighteen years of therapy, and I credit it to helping me feel calm, help me steer my ship in storms, help me have better relationships with everybody. I am very pleased to tell you that we are at a time in our evolution, in our
history where we are all starting to talk about mental health. It is becoming destigmatized very quickly, and we're reaching out to more and more people so that they will get the help they need. One of those people is Byshon Shaw. She's a former Real Housewife of New York you might remember and now, and she's also a transformational speaker. She really cares about people's mental health. Welcome, Bshonshaw, how are you hello? I love that introduction. Hello,
Hello, Hello. I want to hear about your new app. And before we go any further, I first, let's start by talking about how you came to the place of being a mental wellness coach. Yeah, my journey really changed about fourteen fifteen years ago. Doctors gave me three months to live, so I can you believe it? I mean, I was in New York City, I was owning restaurants, I was an actress, a model, and I had horrible back pains. Horrible, horrible, horrible back
pains. I couldn't figure out what was wrong. So what was your diagnosis? I know exactly. Chiropractors, wellness doctors, clinics, and someone said to take an MRI. And that's when I did. I took an MRI and I remember the day so clearly. March twenty six, two thousand and nine. A doctor told me to sit down. He said, sit down, mishaw. Because I thought I was just going to the doctor and getting my results. It was a slip disc or something. I didn't think that
I had to sit down, And I remember it so clearly. He looked in my eyes and he said, it's more than a back problem. You've been diagnosed with terminal breast cancer. Wow, and your only symptom at that point was back pain. That's fair. Wow, So how did you overcome this? You know, I always say, and this is how this app started. I did everything, but I changed my diet, I changed my mindset, I changed the way I thought about life, and I did the
work. I say doing the work is personal development, self improvement, motivation and important. Literally, I started doing affirmations, reading positive things, eating healthy, exercising and manifesting what I wanted. You know, I'm a professor of health psychology. And while you would think it would be a class about diet and exercise and prevention, it's all about staying out of toxic relationships,
surrounding yourself by positive people, making sure you have positive thoughts. Because we know the mind and the body talk, they talk on a regular basis. So out of this, you don't call yourself a survivor. You call yourself a thriver. Out of this thriving you have now developed an app. Now the app is in beta, developed with two therapists, licensed therapists, and it's called like literally the letters you letter you letter are letter A, You
are a warrior app. Tell me about the app. You know, when when I was getting treatment about fourteen one or fifteen years ago, there was no safe space. Everyone was sort of negative bullying support groups. It just was not safe to have a place where you can get support. So I said fourteen fifteen years ago, I'm going to build one, and now I did. I built this app because people need a place to vent, to
share, to get support, to get motivation and inspiration. That's why I'm giving the app free to college students and high school students because they need it. And how does the app work. It's not online therapy. It's really a group of community, a community. Right. We were just talking about online communities earlier. I don't know if you were listening to the show, but my Patreon community met for lunch after two years this week and to see
each other in real life. But we already were friends, we already had support and it was wonderful to see. And let me tell you, doctor, what people don't understand is community is the foundation, because as you know in psychology and therapy that people fill alone when they commit suicide, people fill alone when they go through depression and stress and anxiety. But no, I'm
just like you. We all had this issues. So we have a motivational space too then to share to get motivation We have the Warrior Groups and the Warrior Wall. We have different groups like depression groups, stress anxiety, college blues, substance abuse. We have all of these things to help you and we'll have the app have a way to intervene if they do feel that somebody could be suicidal. So how to do we do? Oh? Sorry, yeah, we do so right away. We have an alarm system that we
contact nine to one one and we have therapist on call. Yep, okay, so your app is in beta. Now when can people get it? They can get it this Wednesday. Boom coming out now, how exciting at the app store, the app store or the doople play store. And it's you. The letter you, the letter R, the letter A Warrior, W A R R io R, It's all together. You are a Warrior. I love it. Thank you so much for being with us. I'm sorry with the tight time constraints of radio that I have to go Bshawan Shaw.
Thank you for doing the good work that you're doing and I'm so glad that you are well. Thanks for being with us. And if you guys want to download on Wednesday, you are a Warrior app. That's the app to gap. Thanks for being thank you so much. Take care and when we come back, Okay, we're going to get into it. Jada and Will was it a fake marriage? Let me explain. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We Live Everywhere on the
iHeartRadio app. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand KFI AM six forty. You have doctor Wendy Walsh with you. You know, I have a very open mind. I believe there are many ways to be a human being. I believe that we are wired to bond. And there are people that you know, may go through life and never find a romantic love partner, but I bet they have somebody who's their secure base, the person they could call if they're in the hospital or even needed or ride to the airport,
the person who they can depend on. We're not meant to be alone, We're meant to be with somebody else. Now, remember I say this a lot. When Til Death Do Us part was invented, death was pretty imminent, and so people are trying to find all kinds of ways to have the connections they need, but also deal with sometimes the boredom of long term
monogamy. You know, even the most monogamous of humans, because of our very long life expectancies that didn't happen a while ago, may see themselves having one or two or even three long stints of monogamy with some mate selection in between. Other people have opened up their marriages. Some people are living undivorced, meaning that they're living together but they're not really together, or they're living apart but their stay married. They just want the two houses. They are
all kinds of ways that people are trying to manage. In fact, there's a whole movement for conscious non monogamy. Now you've also heard me say that that kind of talk tends to benefit men more than women because fewer women are interested in conscious non monogamy. Okay, it's sort of. It sexually tends to benefit men. The news this week big relationship news that actors Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith have been living somewhat of a sham life for seven years.
Apparently, Jada has revealed the truth about her relationship in her upcoming book, a memoir called Worthy. You should know The book comes out on Tuesday. She's heavily on book tour and when somebody who's a celebrity puts out a book. They always want to put out something titillating so that people run to buy the book. Well, apparently, Jada says that she was absolutely shocked
that Will called her his wife at the Oscars. Remember at the Oscars when he yelled out at comedian Chris Rock, who was hosting it and who had made a joke about Jada. He said, take my wife's name out of your mouth. He said it over and over, take my wife's name out of your mouth. And Jada now says that she was shocked that he referred to her as his wife. In fact, she revealed that they're not living together as a couple and have not been for seven years at least. This
is what she told Hotacopti on The Today Show this week. So from the year twenty sixteen, which is seven years ago, yes, y'all have been a part. Yeah, but in public, the couple, who married in nineteen ninety seven, denied the gossip about their marriage. This interview on Bravo's Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen was taped a year after Will and Jada separated. So, how long have you guys been together twenty three years. Wow, that's amazing. How do you keep it hot? How do I
keep it hot? You know? Maybe I don't know. Yeah, she laughed that one off because she didn't not have anything to say. Okay, so we're going to explore what's happening here. I just want to tell you that my first personal reaction is twofold one is okay, another celebrity trying to sell books, So she's going to come up with something to lating and maybe it's true. My second is, I'm really impressed that it was never discovered
by the press, because the press seems to find out everything. And why did people not know that they were literally living in two different homes because publicly they were socializing as a couple. They would go to the Red Carpets, the premieres with their kids as a family, and they did a lot of things publicly, so it kind of never came up. So those are the first two things that came across, is like, you know, yeah,
she's trying to sell a book, here we go. And number two, Wow, it's interesting that they managed to keep that a secret all those years. But then I had another highly personal visceral reaction because let me tell you something about me. I'm a truth teller to a fault. Nobody can gossip
about me because I've told you first, or I've told somebody first. I am an open book, even with my failings, even when I'm having trouble making a decision about what way to go in life, even when I feel shame about something I may have done, even when I've been a victim of something. You all know, if you've been listening to me for all these years, I'm a survivor of domestic violence. You know that I have suffered financial abuse. You know that I've had a string of bad relationships in my
past, and I'm not a victim. I chose them right. I chose them because I learned unconsciously I was reliving some of my early childhood trauma, and it was only through years of therapy. But along the way, I wrote books about my journey. I wrote many books where I was pulling the science of relationships but giving examples from my own life. Because what did they say in Jonathan Livingston seaghos we teach best what we most need to learn.
So that is who I am, and that's why I'm prefacing what I'm about to say with that. The one thing I don't like our secrets. I have such a hard time when I discover a lie that anyone is told me. I have such a hard time ever trusting them again because I think, if they can lie about that, what else are they lying about? And then I think, well, should I go out and get her book and get the full story? But then I'm like, I don't know what to
believe in that book. She just told me she lied to me for seven years, so now I'm supposed to believe everything she says in the book. Right, Hey, this is personal opinion. This is just personal opinion. This is not a opinion on their relationship or their choice to separate and still
remain public parents for their kids and all that stuff. People have all kinds of ways that they figure out how to get their emotional needs met, how to get their physical needs met, and sometimes how to get their financial needs met. I do want to say, apparently they did not have a prenuptial so and then we can start to look at things as attachment style. Again, I can't diagnose these people. I've never met them. I don't have
a license. But there are people out there who have an anxious attachment style, who want a divorce and can't they stay like a klingon. Usually they stay connected through anger and the courts right they use their anxious attachment. So there's all kinds of reasons why this could be happening. But for me, it does not sit well that I'm supposed to now buy a book, read it and believe it because you've just told me you've lied to me for seven
years. That's very hard for me. When we come back, I have a guest who thinks a little bit differently from me, really supports this couple in many ways. She's a friend of mine, psychotherapist doctor Tammy Nelson, author of the book The New Monogamy. Let's hear her take on this. When we come back. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app KFI AM six forty on demand