You're listening to kaf I Am six forty on demand kaya by Am six forty. You have doctor Andy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Welsh Show and here we are for the next two hours. You would not believe what I need to talk about. Well, what I always talk about human mating strategy that can be very treacherous. And I'm going to tell you a story about a real life thing that happened that really hurt three people. Also, is your relationship a little too enmeshed? You might not even know it.
Maybe you were raised in a family with a lot of enmeshment. I like to say where nobody can remember whose problem is? Who's But before we get into it, Row, we got you in the studio. How are you on the board? I'm great? How are you good? So you know, I have some pops of sound and I wrote out some cues. You're gonna watch the paper when I get there because I want to hear this girl's story about her Tinder date. Okay, okay, cool, coo cool and Sandy, we got you in the newsroom. How are you? I'm
right here, good, good? Do you know about the tabby tinder thief? Tabby tinder thief. Oh you're gonna find I'm looking forward to interesting. Yeah, I had to look up what tabbies were first of all. Uh speaking speaking No, it's a fashionable shoe. Uh speaking of fashion. So this week I have been cleaning out my closet, and my closet has stuff in there from not much, but only a few things from like the late eighties, early nineties that I saved some certain suits, like Chanelle's suits.
And you know, I was a young news anchor in the early nineties and I had a little cash and I bought a few nice things and I thought I would save them for my daughters. My daughters aren't really interested in them. So I am trying eBay for the first time in my life. Kayla, I'm freaked out by this whole thing. I put a bag up there, and I'm watching all these bids come in and anyway we will see. What do you think like strange or danger? What do you scared of?
I don't know. It just feels first time, and it's you know, it's a lot of money and they're bidding, and what if I don't send it on time, and what if it doesn't get authenticated correctly, and there's just so much tech to it. Uh So, anyway, here I go, but I do want to say something. I'm changing the subject so fast, but I promise you it's all connected. So do you remember last time we were in the studio, Kayla, you brought me that delicious fish and
the salad because she goes to this restaurant. That's the restaurant to Hombrea. I don't kill me. It was brand Zeno and a beautiful salad. They shared your post on their story. They were so happy you shout at the nut. So you know you had a birthday recently and I didn't make it to our birthday dinner. So as I was going through my closet, I found this little product. I know you were not giving me a product right now. Yes, I am that freck wind you go. I'm not going
to sell everything on eBay. I gotta give some things away, okay, but you always wear that nice orange outfit. And I saw that orange prod a bag and I'm like, oh, Kayla would love that. And plus we have the Orange Kfi logo. It's all connected. I got you a salad, okay, you got me a product. I think it's Evenin's all
right. So moving on. So one of the things I the reason why I'm obsessed with human mating strategy is because long ago, when I was a young dating, single woman, and I spent a lot of time in pain, I would be played by somebody and be heartbroken. I would be really interested in somebody who wouldn't like me back. I would hang out with girls that seem to get better guys than I did, and I really wanted to
understand, and there wasn't There is a science. I finally found the science, and the science to it is all in the realm of evolutionary psychology. You see this research, most of it has been done. I mentioned them a lot by doctor David Buss at the University of Texas. Awesome. But there are tons and tons and tons of evolutionary psychologists who specialize in studying human mating strategy. But the point I'm going to make is human mating is not
all about love and sunshine of flowers. It's also treacherous. It also may seem evil in some way. It has an underbelly that breaks many cultural rules. And I will say this, when I talk about culture, you can't say, oh, that's just how they are in America. Oh, that's just how those Frenchmen are, That's how those Italians are. Nope, nope, nope. Actually the research is pretty cross cultural. It's the same everywhere, and it involves six things. The first is competition for mates. How
do we compete against other people who are competing for the same mates. Well, people who identify as female might use a lot of cosmetics, or get plastic surgery or put in hair extensions. Men traditionally have displayed resources. I actually heard a story once that a bunch of guys, so somebody got dropped off at the airport in a Lamborghini and as he got out of the car, every young guy, baggage handler and whatever said can I take a picture
for my Tinder profile? And they stood in front of the car, one by one. Okay, So it does involve deception as well, so it's showcase of resources. Men also go to the gym and try to bulk up and look all fit and like a good, good reproducer. Right, good jeans, that's what you want to get. But then once you've competed and you look better than all the mates who are also competing with you, then You've got to find a way to acquire that mate, and that may involve
lying. Let me tell you, on first dates, most people give an Academy Award winning performance. Remember and one of Chris Rock's comedy specials, he said, you know, for the first six months that you're dating a guy, you're not actually dating him, you're dating his representative. Right, so it takes well, you know, at the beginning, everybody is like on
their best behavior. They make sure they look really good. I have to tell you a funny story, kaylet so I you know, most of the summer, except for when I had to work on camera, I didn't really wear any makeup because why, I have a boyfriend who loves me. Why do I need to I don't need it so tonight because we're gonna go live on Instagram later when we're taking calls and everything. I said, you know, I'm gonna take some time. I'm gonna blow draw my hair properly,
I'm gonna put on a little makeup. And when I walked into the room, Julio look like he had just seen a ghost, like jaw drops whatever. And I looked at him and I go, oh, you forgot, didn't you you forgot the value of your mate, didn't you. You could turn it. Yes, I did forget. But then he decided to follow me to work tonight. He's down in the conference room, so we're working because the next part about human mating is mate guarding. Maybe because I looked
so good tonight, he decided to come to work with me. He didn't want any of the co workers running down on right. And the way that people guard a high value of a mate that they think is high value is they put down other competitors. And funny thing, I got pinged last week by an old friend, literally friend nobody I dated, but he is gorgeous and he's a retiring doctor and all this stuff. And he's like six foot four and all muscly, And I mentioned to Huli, Oh, I got
pinged by this guy I knew like thirty years ago. Maybe I could fix him up with this friend of mine, and he goes, i'd even want to do like that around anyway, there's no reason it never even read the email. His little jealousy mate guarding right there. But there's there's a dark side to mate guarding. It might involve controlling your mate's behavior. A few weeks ago we talked about I can't remember who. It was a singer whose boyfriend said, why are you wearing that your right? Right? Right?
She was on stage with a singer, right and with usher there we go, and that's mate guarding. He's basically saying, you look too good. I'm afraid somebody's going to steal you. And they're together, they're happy against Yeah, he was just guarding her guarding. So sometimes though it can go into the dark side. It can be controlling where your mate goes, it can be it can get into stalking, even domestic violence. You know what
domestic violence sad to say is mate guarding. It's highly insecure, makes mats who have high abandonment issues and high testosterone and so they, yeah, they make a woman too scared to leave. And then the other thing are backupmates. Believe it or not, we all have. I actually don't have a backupmate. And maybe Julio was worried that that guy would be my backupmate or something, but I don't, but I should because they say, if you have a backupmate, somebody in the back of your mind, you're like,
you know, some ever happened to my mate? Maybe I could, you know, call that person from work or something. Well, if you have backup mats, you tend to have lower rates of depression. Would you be jealous if you found out that Julio had a backupmate? He has lots of backup mats. In fact, I picked her for him a friend named Tina, and Tina and Julio really connect on classic cars. She has classic cars, he has classic cars. They both laugh at each other's jokes. But
she's a good friend and I trust her implicitly. So I always say to Tina, if anything ever happens to me, you have to date Julio. The only gone I'm unproved. I don't know. Do you watch Vanderpump Rules? You gotta be you gotta protect your mate. Man. You can't trust people, But I trust she's a good person's coat, I got my eye.
She's a lawyer. Okay, But like you said, besides backupmates, sometimes there's a treacherous world of mate poaching, and you're worried that Tina's going to turn into a mate poacher, exactly stealing a mate and then finally mate expulsion. That's breakups divorce when you realize the mate's not working out right. Time to expel them all right. When we come back, I want to tell you a story, beat by beat by beat. It's a human mating
story that involves all of these evolutionary behaviors. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on kf I AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to kf I AM six forty on demand kf I Am six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walls Show. Heylo. You remember the Tinder swindler. Oh he
sucks? Oh yeah, he he was using. He was targeting young women all over Europe and having them take out these big loans provide money for him. And little did they know his human mating strategy was to put him on a private jet soon after meeting them. He didn't they didn't know that that jet was paid for with the money from the last grift, right, the
last woman that he targeted. Anyway. And then there was west elm Caleb, remember him, west El Kayla. He was a New York guy and he went he had a date and he told this woman that he was really into her and he had this special Spotify list that he made for her, and then she posted about it because he goes to her and disappeared and played her basically, And turns out that same Spotify list was he gave to every other girl too. Very common, that's how guys do it well. This
week we have the Tinder tabby thief. And let me start by simply saying I didn't even know what tabbies were. So tabby is a short slang word for Jika tabby, which is a traditional Japanese footwear. It literally translates to footbags. So the traditional Japanese tabby's look kind of like socks or slippers, somewhere between shoes and slippers or moccasins. And the big feature is they've got
a split between the big toe and the rest of the toes. So I just want to be clear that if you're if you're a fashionista, you can buy some very high end tabbies. So it all started in Soho. One day a girl was walking along and she locked eyes with a good looking stranger. Later that night, she gets home and she gets a ping on Tinder.
Turns out she had previously matched with him. He was one of the many guys in her box, and because men are so visually wired, he recognized her and he had locked eyes in her and he said, hey, did I see you downtown today? So the next thing you know, they go out for drinks and things. Oh well, she was really had a good time with them, and so oh, I do want to say, I just want to pause to say, if you are using dating apps, here's a great reason not to ghost people, because they live in the real
world too. You could literally go somebody because you don't like his messages or something, or her messages, and the next day walk in and they're in a business meeting with you, like sirius. So you gotta find a way to extract yourself politely. Anyway, after their drinks, they go out for a second date. Turns out they bond over fashion. He's into fashion, she's into fashion. She has a line of knitwear, and she's a social media person for some company. So after the second date, she invites him
back to her place and they end up having sex. Not unusual. These people are in their twenties there in the fashion industry. I've done that. The next morning they continue to bond. By the way, if you want to follow her on TikTok, her name is Next Level Lexus spelled l e x uss next level Lexus. So anyway, they continue to bond, and here's what happened. So now we're chatting and he's like, oh, can I show you this playlist on Spotify? I feel like you really like it?
And I'm like, okay, sure, he's a hot Spotify. We've already discussed this. I give him my phone to go on Spotify to look it up. I hope my phone and everything where I I give him the app to Spotify. He looks it up. So then he gives me back my phone. He's like, I can't find the playlist. I'm just like a yeah, it's time to go. And he said I'm a head out and I'm like bye, and he's like okay, like text me and I'm like, okay, bye. The hours passed. I'm on my computer.
I look over to my shoe rack over here. I have Tabby boots up there. We were talking about the Tabby boots and he was like referencing those. He barely glanced at the Mary Jane's Okay, I look over there and they're gone, and I'm like, where are my Tabby's? Yes, he stole her shoes. Now, these were Maison margiela Paris. What Marghila, Margella Magela. You have sat there, you go, and they are worth
a thousand dollars. They look like plain, old weird Mary Jane's black shoes with a strap over the front with a slit between the big toe and the rest of it. But okay, so she posted that video on TikTok. Well, the fashionista Internet girl gang goes wild. They try to track him down. They find his sister and so Next Level Lexus messages his sister nothing. Then the Internet finds his Instagram. But what does he do to Next Level Lexus? He blocks her and then he makes his Internet or his Instagram
private, but he is being hounded by the Internet. He can't get away. Go Ahead follows me two hours later after he privated his account and starts to gaslight me and tell me that he didn't seal them and he doesn't know how it happened and what happened, and he's like, that's just out of my character. I would never do that, And like I started feeling crazy because I'm like you're really he's this name is a psychopath. He was trying to convey me that he didn't steal it. I'm like, how, tell
me how what happened? And then he went into saying that he would give me money for it. And that's when I knew he was lying, because he was like, Oh, I can give you five hundred dollars. You know what I do for a living. You like, I'll give you a thousand dollars. And I'm just like, Oh, when you're offering money, that means you did it. Do you think, Kayla, if he's offering her money, does that mean he did it? He completely did it.
And then I in the video as well, he said she said that when he was going through her or looking for the Spotify list, he was actually like deleting his text message, thought his phone number. Oh then for him to give oh yeah back and say text me. So the whole it was a ruse about the Spotify list, because what he actually did is deleted his He deleted he deleted any messaging they've been together. The contact list is kinder on profile like, he literally erased himself. He knew he was going to
take those shoes. She also said another video. She thinks she can't figure out how he got the shoes out of there. She thinks because he had baggy pants on, he put them in a waistband of his pants. Or that's crazy, so crazy. We'll wait a sec, folks, this story is not over yet, because then the Internet finds his girlfriend on Instagram and you won't believe the picture they found. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
You're listening to kf I Am sixty on demand ki Am six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Welsh Show. We are talking about the tender Tabby thief, Tabby's being a pair of very expensive shoes. If you've just tuned in, I'm telling the story of a woman in New York. Young woman in New York this week who had a lovely day two dates with a guy she found charming. He at the after the morning after he borrowed her phone to give her a Spotify list and then
said he couldn't find the list. But then she found out he had deleted every trace of him in her phone and he had stolen her Tabby shoes worth a thousand dollars and then said text me after deleting himself. Yea. On his way out the door, he said, yeah, texts me right, you're deleted. So the Internet finds this liar, but they also find that this liar has a girlfriend, and so they go the Internet goes to her instagram and what do you think they found, Kayla? What a picture of
his girlfriend wearing the tabbies are stolen? Da da da da. Then the plot, Vickens find out he's a girlfriend and then he gave my tabbies to his girlfriend. I send him a screenshot of his girlfriend wearing my tabbies and he's like an hours later, at three am, I got a text message and he's like, I you caught me. I'll give you back your shoes. Can you take down the video? Yeah? No, So she did
meet him on the street with a friend who videotaped the whole thing. You can go out to TikTok and see the whole series, and there's the guy given back the shoes, and there are a couple disturbing things about everything that happened here. If you're a woman for sure. Well men, because he gives men a bad reputation, So I'm sure men are like, dude, this does not look good on us. What have you done? People with morals are saying that, like, right does that? Who does that?
Right? But the other thing is, you know, patriarchy and misogyny runs so deep that even some women on the internet we're commenting like, well, that's what you get for sleeping with a guy you don't know, slut shaming her or saying bad things about the girlfriend, like she's done. You know, he cheated on her. Why are these women being blamed? They are
no longer together. From my knowledge, she did not know he's a man, as y'all he cheated on her, So I would appreciate it if you guys like try to give her a little bit of respect in space in this like she she did not know that, Like this is not her fault. The other thing I want to address is the slot shaming, Like that is
kind of a lot, Like it's it's been pretty rough to see. It's not like I'm someone who has a pretty thig skin, so but it is really it's just like like to focus on that and not what he did shows how there are layers of misogyny to this whole entire situation to punish my behavior and say, oh, what do you expect when you just open your legs and things like that, instead of being like that's crazy that there are not decent human beings out there. Yeah, he's clearly not a decent human being.
But as I began the show, human mating strategy can be ugly and it can be treacherous. And remember, we are all wired to reproduce, even if you're not thinking about it consciously. You have reflexes, you have behaviors in you designed to increase your reproductive odds. In his case, you know, maybe you look at it just on the surface and go, what are you making so science about it, doctor Wendy. This is just a guy who wanted to seal some shoes and have sex with a girl because it
felt good. No, on some deep evolutionary level, he was out there spreading his seed. He wasn't keeping it in one house. He was spreading his seed. Now another trend that I'm seeing. He used to be historically that women would deceive men to try to extract resources from them, But now we are seeing more women rise in economic power, and as a result, this new breed of men is not only trying to extract sex from women,
but also extract resources, in this case, these expensive shoes. And you should know you can sell as I've been putting my first bag up on anybody this week. I'll tell you you can resell high end fashion. And even if it's old people white, vintage are used. And that's probably what he said to the girlfriend. You know, I bought these vintage, or I
bought these on a what do they call it resale site? Right, Kyl, Yeah, yeah, because and he say he works in fashion too, so maybe he thought like and then for you to be so excited that your man bought you and a thousand dollar pair of shoes, he's so thoughtful, he's so sweet, and then you find out he stole it from a girl he cheated on you with, right, And you find out because the internet goes into your DMS and started going a girl, those shoes you're wearing,
your boyfriend, he just stole them from another girl. I just can't imagine the reaction being to attack that woman. And the woman also who got our shoes stole him, Like, what is wrong? With this world. But a greater point is so we are talking on a cultural level. Culturally this is considered morally wrong. Right, We're all in one tribe together, we have a certain set of room rules, don't steal, et cetera. But from a human mating strategy, it might except for the Internet, it might
have been successful for him. He might have been doing this kind of stuff for a long time. Like I said, some of this stuff can be very very dark. But it's I mean, I hate to say it like this. I'm not condoning it. I'm just saying it's natural behavior. In the same way, if any woman ever tells me that she's not a goal
digger, I will tell you right now that she is a liar. Yep, because if identical twin men stood in front of her and one was rich and one was poor, there would be no question which one she would take. The rich one. Yeah. Yeah, women get excited when men have resources, So don't lie about it. You know, I love the women they're more honest about it. You know, those the ones on all those sugar Daddy sites or whatever. They're just like they're so honest. They're just
like, this is a deal, that's what I want. I don't know because there is so much deception that goes on. Now, when we come back, I want to talk about why it was so easy to try to gas lighter. You heard talk about you know, he tried to say you know, and I didn't know what to think. He said he didn't steal them, and this and that and she was trying to So I want to talk about gender differences and emotions. Why it's easier to gaslight a woman than
a man, and who has more empathy and who has more guilt. We'll talk about this when we come back. You are listening to The Doctor Wendy Walsh Show and kf I AM six forty but live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to kf I AM six forty on demand KFI AM six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. I'd like to welcome my Instagram audience. If you'd like to come onto the studio and see what we do here. There's producer Kayla over there.
Look say say hi Instagram, there's Kayla. Then just log onto Instagram and my account which is at doctor Wendy Walsh. All right, we were talking about the Tabby tinder thief in New York and how he had two days with this young woman, they had sex, and the next morning he stole her very expensive Tabby designer shoes, and how when she contacted him later, he tried to gaslight her and tried to say no, I couldn't have steal even though she knows that was the only person in her apartment. They were
talking about shoes, et cetera. So I want to talk about some gender differences and why women are easier to gaslight according to science, not all women, but some, and also why men may not feel as much empathy or feelings of guilt as women. Now, I have to give you a disclaimer first that it's not fair to make any kind of sweeping generalizations about any gender, because we have the widest range of gender expression of gender at all in
our species. So you're going to find, for instance, within the male species, male species, the human species, the male gender, you're going to find men who are loving and caregiving and compassionate and motivated by guilt to do the right thing. And you're going to find cold, callous men and everything in between. And the same thing about women. However, there's also a research that points to certain trends in certain areas. Right there are sex
brain differences, physiological differences in the brains of male and female. So let's talk first of all about empathy. You all know what empathy is. It's the ability to understand and actually share in the external state of somebody else. Right, Well, there's resources show that women are so much better at reading faces and having empathy than men are. I can't tell you how many times I've been with a man and I've had to explain what's going on socially by
what I'm seeing around me. I don't even have to see the words out of their mouth. I could see what's going on, right, And they're like, how did you know that? Like I'm a magic mind reader. I'm like, you didn't see the looks she just gave him. You didn't see what that was? Right? They can't read They can't read faces like we can read faces. Here's what's really interesting on the research on empathy.
Empathy is observed in all kinds of animals, but most of all in animals that have what we call prolonged parental care and humans tend to have some of the longest like we don't you know, if you're a horse, you're up and running with the herd. If you're a cult cult you're up and running with the herd a few hours after birth. But if you're a human, we don't let you run with the herd. We call that kindergarten until like five years. So there's this big, long nurturing phase, and we need
to have a lot of empathy, especially for a pre verbal infant. So that's why we've had it. Now here's one of the reasons women can more easily be gasolt. In one study, females compared to males reported greater sceptibility to emotional contagion think about it, and displayed more overt signs of contagion in semi naturalistic setting. Basically, here's what happens. Feelings are contagious, right, completely contagious. We get them from each other, but women are because
of our empathy, are more easily misled by those great actors. And I mentioned earlier that human mating strategy can be very treacherous and involve a lot of deception. And it's women's job. It's your job because you're protecting your eggs in your bloodstream. And you know, you don't want to catch an eighteen year case apparenthood unless you want to catch that eighteen year case apparenthood, right, And so as a result, women have to be very, very very
cautious. Here's another interesting thing. You know how we mimic each other. Have you ever noticed, Kayla, Maybe you're out with someone and they do like that, and then you do like that, and they do like that, and you do like that. We kind of copy. Yeah. Well, actually that's one way that people indicate they like each other on the dating table, at the dating table, because they mimic each other. But it turns out women are better at it than men. Again, mimicking women also,
according to science, not all women. Remember, they're cold, callous women who have very little empathy. I just saw Oppenheimer last night. Oh my goodness. That mother did not have a maternal instinct. We're talking about Oppenheimer's wife at all. Literally, he comes home and the baby is crying and screaming, the toddler, and she's drunk at the table and he said, aren't you going to go to him? And she said, I've gone to him all day. I'm done So what does Oppenheimer do Because he's a
genius and he's not nurturing, he's not one of those dads. He takes the baby to toddler to his friend's house and says, can you keep him like for a while? All I remember from the movie is that his name was Peter, And as soon as I came out, I googled where is Peter Oppenheimer? Now? Is he? Okay? No, he's living on his dad's ranch in New Mexico and he's filled with all kinds of anxiety and
mental health problems. At least it's still alive. He still love. Yeah, okay, back to women more, except for the women in that movie. Most women have a sensitivity to others pain, and we have more consolatory behavior, So if somebody is distressed, we're more likely to go, oh, it's going to be okay. Think about it. Women organize themselves in
a circle. Men organize themselves in a competitive ladder socially, right, When when a man walks into a room and there's a bunch of other dudes there, you don't know it, ladies, but what he's thinking is okay, who who Who's more alpha here? Who am I following, Where do I fit on this ladder? If something goes down? Here? The dangerous? Who's got my back? What's the deal? They're lying in themselves up on
a ladder. Women are all like you look good in those genes. We we will be so nice to every other woman we possibly can be, because in our anthropological past and maybe even today, we need childcare. We need those other women in our village to help with that baby, not just hand it. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about lying. A two thousand six study out of Stockholm found that men, surprise, surprise, are
significantly more likely than women to lie. Now, they do these tests and experiments where in order to get this, it's like a game they play, and in order to have monetary benefit yourself, you have to deceive others. And women are like, I don't know what, I want to deceive them right, Men are like no, no, no, no no. Also, there's research to suggest that frequency of deception is higher in men. Now I want to stop. There's some love. I have a boyfriend who's fabulous.
He is a loving, caregiving, wonderful guy. He doesn't fall into this category. But who's arguing with the research slight majority, guys more frequency of deception. So, and let's talk about guilt. You think of guilt as being a really negative trait, but guilt is super important for curbing your animal instincts, for curbing your selfishness. You need to feel guilt and you need to be able to act on it. So some people are more predisposed
to feeling guilt than others. And turns out women are more influenced by guilt than men are. Turns out men can feel guilt and do the nasty anyway, do that bad thing anyway. All these things happened to the poor girl on TikTok. Dude stool her Tabby's well, the Internet attacked him, So all good. When we come back, my drive by makeshift relationship advice. If you've got a relationship question, I want you to give me a call. The number is one eight hundred five two zero one five three four.
That's one eight hundred five to zero one KFI producer Kayla's going into the room to start screening the calls right now, by Kayla, enjoy when we come back, I would love to weigh in on your love life. You're listening to the doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio album kf I Am six forty on demand