This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to kf I Am six forty the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on demand on the iHeartRadio Appy by AM six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. If you're new to my show, you should know that I have a PhD in clinical psychology. I'm a psychology professor, but my obsession is the
science of love. I've written three books on relationships, and I fully believe that every relationship, whether it's a romantic relationship, a workplace relationship, apparent child relationship, they all have biological, psychological, and sociological pieces. I know a bunch of psychobabble there. Basically, we need to learn the skills to have healthy, healthy, long term relationships. The research is clear.
Long term committed people actually have better mental health, they have better physical health, they live longer, and they tend to accumulate more wealth. Now we're also outgrowing our relationships. You know, when Death Do us Part was invented, death was pretty imminent and because of our long lifespans, many even very monogamous people may find themselves having two or three long stints of monogamy with some
mate selection in between. You like to call that dating. One of the things when it comes to relationship skills and psychology, one of the things that I hear people talk about a lot are boundaries, requests, and ultimatums. I listened to this very funny comedian. I'm gonna have to producer, Kayla before we get too far into it. How are you? I'm wonderful doctor.
I just start out a rant about boundaries because I was thinking about this comedian I saw last night, Leanne Leanne, Leanne, I think her last name starts with an M. Blond lady from like Tennessee or something. Was she hilarious. She did this thing about boundaries that was so funny. She said something like, you know, my son and his wife are pregnant and they use the word their baby and I said, no, no, it's
our baby. And then they use this their word called boundaries, and she said, I knew six months into it, when they're overtired and she's up at three in the morning breastfeeding a lamp, that they would forget about that word boundaries. And she goes, now that baby's too. They just cruise by slowly and throw the kid on the front lawns. That's not like.
What the joke was about is that we do need to have some boundaries within all of our relationships, but we also know that we're interdependent on each other and we need each other at the same time. So one of the things that people often say to me is, well, I set a boundary. I tell this person not to do that, but they do it anyway. So for instance, one thing, let's say in the early stages of a
dating relationship. This is a very common thing that happens. People will write to me or call me and they will say and by the way, if you want to put any questions on social media, this is the time to do it. Near the end of the show, I'm going to be going to social media to answer some of your relationship questions with my drive by make Shift relationship Advice. The handle everywhere is at dr Wendy Walsh at doctor Wendy Walsh. Come on over to Instagram, send me a DM. I'll change
your name. I'm not going to like embarrass you here. That's not where I'm in the business of. But right a tithing we'll get to it. Um So anyway, when people say so early in a relationship, it is very common in modern times for men to only text. You know, they don't like to talk that much. Women are the ones of words. Men
don't talk that much, you know. I've been reading the research on this, by the way, Kayla, and did you know that there's actually supposedly only a slight difference in how many words men say a day compared to how many words women say. However, the research I read was done on psychology graduate students, so of course the more verbal men are going to join a psychology program and they're going to be talking class, etc. So that's the
chatterbox of men, the psychology. That's that's where they go. That's the chatterboxes. Because I've been doing some construction and I've had two guys doing some work in my apartment. They have a little country music playing in the background on a small iPhone, and they every once in a while we'll say something to each other about, oh look, when I found looking at them doing
here, could you hold this for me? Whatever? Very simple. But then the painters came to join them, and the painters were two women, and I swear non stop talking from morning till night, and rather than music, they had their iPhones on with podcasts. They were listening to podcasts. Unfortunately, podcast was about astrology. Look, don't shoot me. Okay, I'm just quoting this science. I'm a psychology professor. I try to make
sure that all my students learn that there's no science to astrology. Okay, you guys, has been so much research done. It's just you projecting onto those vague words. Oh yeah, that's me. That's me. I'm that. No, you're not. It's made up. Okay, let's get back. So, in the early stages of a dating relations and ship, very common for men to only text, and women like the words, and they love them to have phone calls. They want to actually get to know the
person besides just face to face and potential for sex. Right, they want to they want to get to know having these long lingering You know. One of the things women say to each other when they one of the girlfriends meets a new guy, as they say, does he give good phone? Right, that's a thing we compare guys based on does he give good phone? So they will say to me, what do I do to keep him from texting? And I'd say, well, tell him that you prefer phone calls,
Like, first of all, just communicate it right. Then they say, well, I told him, buddy still texts. I say, you didn't set a boundary, you made a request. So both boundaries and requests are definitely tools you can use in your interpersonal relationships. So when we make a request, we're asking somebody else to do something or not do something because we want you know, we have a need and we want our needs met.
Okay, so we say, hey, i'd prefer phone calls. Now, a boundary is a little bit different because a boundary isn't about trying to get somebody else to change their behavior. It's about figuring out what you will actually tolerate, right. It's about changing your behavior in reaction to their not obeying your request. So all boundaries start out with a request. If the request gets ignored, then you set a boundary, which is I will change
my behavior in reaction to your behavior. So let's go back to our example of a guy who texts too much. She wants him to call. She says, I always say the text should say hey, I'm not a big texter, but if I see your number pop up on my phone, I'll be happy to pick up the call. But then you set a boundary, which is you don't reward his texting by texting back liked. It's like going I. He's like calling a guy who hasn't called you in two weeks and
say I'm calling you to break up with you. Well, he already did it, didn't call you for two weeks, right, So if you're texting back, he's saying the rule's not there. Every boundary needs to be tested, Every boundary needs a little test, and so you have to absolutely not respond to his text Now if he calls, and when he calls, then you can't punish him for the good behavior, because that's when the girls pick up the phone and they say things like, oh, I see you figured
out how to make a phone call. Only took you two weeks, no new new. Is that a reward for good behavior. No, as soon as you see his number, you pick it up on that first ring and you say, hey, I was just thinking about you. How are you? That's what you do. You reward the behavior. So that's boundaries and requests. Now there's one other thing, and that's an ultimatum. And ultimatums never work. They are basically trying to manipulate somebody. You're tone is usually
angry. You give them a date. If we're not engaged by this date, that I'm out of here. Whatever. That's an ultimatum. And even if you do change somebody's behavior with an ultimatum, it's only short term, doesn't last a long time, and you build up that friendly feeling of resentment into your relationship. Hey, speaking of relationships, when we come back, are you in a long distance relationship? I actually have a way where you can participate in some research. Want to do that? That'd be cool.
You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show and kf I AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from kf I AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. So Producer Kyla, have you ever been in a long distance relationship? Long
distance situationship, not a committed relationship. Oh so, your way of keeping it safe the two of you as to just kind of go or not where not Yeah, we can both do whatever we want to do, because it's unrealistic to think that we can or we won't. Did that bother you that to think that he was with other women when you were no, because I'm typically I was typically, you know, doing my own thing too. You're
busy with your retribution, exactly exact my own retribution. I've had a number of long distance relationships, and I had a you know, sort of attraction to them because you know, I think all of our models for love go back to our early childhood in some way. And in my situation, he probably heard me say this before. My dad was in the navy, and
he was gone in a really inconsistent way, inconsistent pattern. In other words, the ship would be gone for a week, and then he'd be back for two months, and then he'd be gone for three months, and then back for three days and then gone for six days or whatever. And so that inconsistency of presence of parents was, you know, deregulated me, destabilized me in some way. I didn't know this. I was just a little
kid. But it also whenever I had that experience with a romantic partner later in life, my brain confused it with love, because somehow that went to sort of create my faulty model of love. The other thing about my dad that was great is he he really loved us and cared about us, and he felt bad that he had this job and he was away all the time. So when he'd come back, he always showered us with gifts. He gave us lots of attention. And then there I am, as an adult
woman dating these either avoidant playboys who disappeared. My nickname for them, you know, my nickname for these guys where I dated so many of them, Kayla advance retreaters, doctor Wendy. What advance retreaters? Because they would advance and come on strong and give me wine and dine and flowers and make me treat you know, just treat me so well, and then they'd retreat. Ah, yeah, I've been there. They'd advance and they'd retreat. It
really stimulated me in some crazy way, literally crazy. I felt crazy and I was I'm making light of it, but honestly it caused me a lot of pain. So let me just say that I have had a lot of experience with long distance relationships in my life. I also have read a lot of research on long distance relationships. They tend to attract certain kinds of people like me, the sort of anxious, ambivalent person that I used to be, meaning I, you know, was always longing. I was fearing abandoned
men. But if that person was actually there in the same city and being very attentive to me, I'd say, Oh, they're too nice, what's wrong with them right now? So I was ambivalent about the closeness in some way. And the other thing it attracts are people who are kind of emotionally avoidant. No comment about what you told me earlier, Kayla, but people who prefer situation ships where there are no emotional strings attached, where it's kind of like I'll just fly in, have fun, fly out, not going
to be I did not diagnose you, Kayla. Did you hear that I did not take personal I actually like relationships over situationships. I just find myself in situation ships. Yeah, the unconscious leads us places. It really does. But what the research says on long distance relationships is that because people are always like, wow, is it going to work? Are we gonna get together in the same city? Well, only if you do that, if
you actually have a plan. The best long distance relationships have an exit date, meaning that there's a date where one of you is going to quit your job and move to the other city. You've made a plan to do that, or maybe the person has taken the job just for a period of time, like I have to go to London just six months and I'll be back. That sounds very romantic to fly in and have those dinners in London. That's fine. That's different than this open ended going nowhere. Everybody nervous and
worried about what they're doing when they're not there. Those long distance relationships have a difficult time. Also, long distance relationships do better if they started out in the same city. You built the trust, you built the security. When you're separate from your lover, you feel sad and you miss them, and you're able to express that and you have plans and dates on the table of when to do it, When you're gonna do it, you know,
meet each other, get to get together. That's fine. It's those that you know. You think there's nobody in my city to date, So I'm just going to go on the app and I'm going to try different zip codes.
It'll be more exotic, it'll be lovely to go all over the country, and then it starts off as a long distance relationship that is nothing but a series of honeymoon delusions, one after another because you've never had the day to day struggle, and you get the benefit of the time delay in between the texts and the phone calls, so if they catch you in a bad mood, you don't have to respond at that moment. You can go get a massage and then call them back, right, And that's not what real
life really is. I do want to say that there's a couple red flags that if you have them in your long distance relationship, you should be aware of. But before I do that, I want to tell you that there's a researcher who we have had on our show, our podcast a number of number of times, doctor Amri Gilath at the University of Kansas, and he has a graduate student named Nicole Phelps who's right now as we speak, mounting
a study on long distance relationships. So she asked me if I would just give a shout out about her study, and UM, We're gonna put her email up on the doctor Wendy blog today on the website. So if you go to kf I am six forty dot com and search doctor Wendy Walsh Kala is going to put it up there. We have a little video from the researcher, Nicole Phelps. I'm going to give out our email address right now. Get a pen, get it out, Get up pen, pencil, do it, do it? Do it? Okay, it's Nicole m as
a Mary Nicole M. Phelps pH E LPs at KU dot edu. KU for Kansas University, but it's University Kansas KU dot edu. Nicole M. Phelps at KU dot edu. She is looking for participants. If you're in a long distance relate. I think what she's going to have you do is download an app and just track like how often you're in touch or something like that, and answer some questions about your feelings and relationship quality. All anonymous. All these research studies are anonymous. All right, So what are the
red flags? You're in this long distance relationship and you're like, is it going to work or is it not going to work? Well? I know we all have these thoughts. We wonder what our partner is doing when we're not with them. We might feel because of this worried, we might feel frustrated, we might even feel jealous, and we might even like provoke them to try to get show their attention to us by grilling them about who are they seeing or what are they doing right? All this is unhealthy behavior,
just letting you know. However, if your partner ask you, ask if they can track you because they want to feel more secure in the relationship, that's a big red flag. Okay, you can't sacrifice your privacy just because your partner has their own anxiety, their own mistrust. Okay, So if you are asked by your partner in a long distance relationship to hand over passwords to your social media, your email accounts that they can online stock you or
do location services. Now again, this is a different situation then if you've been in a long term relationship for a couple of years, somebody's taken a job in another city and for security purposes, you want to know where each other are. But you've built the trust in security. But this is different. Somebody going who are you going with? Where are you going? Why are you're out with them? And then they ask you can they track you? Don't do it? This is a really really red flag. And there's
one other huge red flag. It has to do with those sexy pictures and videos. And I'm going to break it down and explain the law and the rules for love to you after my next guest. You know who I have coming up? Oh my gosh, a world famous sex researcher Peggy Cline plats you won't believe what she says about couples who have magnificent sex. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show and kf I AM six forty. We're live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from kf I AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty, but live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Ever, wonder why some people want to have sex a lot and some people don't want to have sex a lot or just sometimes you know, you could spend a lot of time with a sex therapist trying to figure out if you've got a
sexual dysfunction, if your partner has a sexual dysfunction. But the researcher that I want to introduce now actually studies what works in sexual relationships. She's a professor in the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Ottawa. I would like to welcome doctor Peggy Kline Plats, Doctor Cleinplatz. Did I say your name
correctly? You did, like you Dctor Walsh, Welcome, Welcome. So basically, what's so interesting about your research is that you say that men and women actually have more in common sexually as far as you're concerned, than not. Can you explain sure, I think most sex therapists and sex research is focused on what's wrong the sexual dysfunctions, what are the reasons for low sexual
desire? And sure enough, low libido is the most common thing that sex therapists come across in men and women, of young people of old people, people of every age, people in every demographic. The main things they complain about are related to desire. And given that I mostly work with couples, or is referred to by most of us in the field as sexual desire discrepancy.
So and I'm sure that most couple is the important part. In my word, most couples are listening, probably at least every once in a while, have this issue where one person has this desire to have hot sex and the others as a million reasons, but doesn't have the same kind of desire
And so what have you discovered in your research? Well, whereas most people are studying the person with low desire to figure out what's wrong with that person for not wanting sex, my research team, the Optimal Sexual Experience Research Team at the University of Ottawa, has spent the last fifteen almost twenty years now studying couples where their sex got better and better over time to find out what
they were doing right and when it comes to sex that's really fulfilling. We don't see any differences between men and women, between people who are gay or straight, people who are kinky or vanilla. What we find is that the stuff makes people glow in the dark is the same no matter who you are, and when people are having sex it's really worth wanting. Then we don't see problems of sexual desire discrepancy. But what is it that people can be
doing. What are we missing out on? What is this important information? Because there is a lot of finger pointing in bedrooms that there's low desire and it's somebody's fault, But what is the magic for these couples that you say, actually start to have better sex as their relationship unfolds. Yeah, it's not about magic, and it's not about the usual tips, tricks, technique and toys mentality. It's about the stuff that makes people really feel connected within
and with each other. So some of the obvious stuff that we forget yet in long term relationships trust, authenticity, the kind of communication that lets you really feel known and loved and where you can be yourself and know that whatever is revealed in moments of intense erotic intimacy will be not only seen, but cherished and treasured by your partner, so that you can afford to let go.
Oh that's so sweet. So, for instance, would you recommend that couples always, if at least grow enough trust to discuss their fantasies with each other. Well, I'm not so sure. It's about telling information, not about a little to the left, slowdown or here's my heart of sexual fantasy. I think it's more about the kind of trust that's required to be yourself
in the moment during sex. So it's less about the right words, and it's more about the kind of empathic communication that allows you to open up not just literally but metaphorically, so that someone can really get under your skin and get to know you. You know what this brings to mind for me,
doctor Klein Platts. When I was pregnant with my first daughter and I was taking all these labor prep getting ready to deliver that natural childbirth class, one of the things they talked about is they said, you really need to learn to turn off your mind during labor and let the animal take over. You need to literally stop overthinking the process, relax your body, and enjoy the
experience. And it's sort of stuck with me that this instructor had said this that we are you know, obviously we are thinking, and we're intellectual creatures, but sometimes that can get in the way, especially if the thoughts involve emotions like shame. Right, if we could just learn to I mean, I hate to to say, just relax, but you know, if we could learn to let our bodies do what they need to do. Then you
mentioned something wonderful empathic communication. Explain that. Sure in the couples the sex loves got better and better as they hit their sixties, seventies, and eighties. It turned out that they were capable of being empathic in the way they communicated with words and more importantly, perhaps through touch. Now, think about okay, not giving birth, but the way your body feels when you know
that somebody is about to give you a vaccine. You know, your arm tightens up right right now, Think about the way your body feels as you're getting into a hot tub. It's just the right temperature your whole body goes. That's easy for someone to feel you and get under your skin in the hot tub, so to speak, but not so easy for the person to really get to know anything. But the fact that your arm is tight as you're getting a vaccine. Yes, right, defensive. So empathic communication is
not just about sharing the right words. It's about touching somebody in such a way that you're really responding to the nuances of that person, so that you can feel into that person's space because that person trusts you enough to let you in literally metaphorically. And similarly, it means that when you touch your partner, you're touching in such a way as to really try to get to know
that person. I mean, so often I've heard patient in my office complain, you know, when my partner touches me, it doesn't matter where my partner is giving me a BackRub or a foot rubb, or stroking my genitals. It's as if my partner's polishing wood, you know, back and forth
and back and forth. It's as if my partner's not actually touching me and communicating empathetically through touch means that you really are touching with the sensitivity that's required to really come to know another person, which is unique to that person in that moment. You can't just pick up some formula by reading a book. You can't even just repeat what work last week. It's a question of getting to know the person all over again every time the two of you touch and
through touch. I want to talk more about this. We have to go to a break right now. Can you stay with me, Doctor client Plats, I'd be delighted, Doctor Walsh, I want to when we come back, discuss one quote that you are world famous for. Your quote is it's rational to have a low desire for undesirable sex. When we come back, doctor Moore from Doctor Peggy Cline Platz, a professor at the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Ottawa that's in Canada where I'm from. You're listening to
the doctor Wendy Walls show and kf I AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio appute. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from kf I AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. My guest doctor Peggy kline Platz, Professor and the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Ottawa and the author of the book Magnificent Sex.
Okay, Doctor Kleinplatz, your quote is so fascinating to me because there's been so much discussion over the years and even diagnosis about people who have low desire. I'm going to share a personal story. I dated this playboy on and off for ten years. I had an anxious attachment style. He had
an avoidant style. He triggered me in all kinds of ways, so I would try to set up boundaries by not physically responding to him sexually, and he'd say, you know, he would use the term you're frigid and there's something wrong with you, right, you need to And I remember thinking like, maybe there's something wrong with me. But I didn't know about all the psychological pieces that also go into sex that sex very much is partly biological,
partly psychological, and even sometimes sociological if you like somebody's resume. So your quote it's rational to have a low desire for undesirable sex says what, well, I think you've just proven with your anecdote that sex doesn't exist to a vacuum. You knowingly turned yourself off because there were problems exactly and howd your partner created a more fulfilling relationship with you. I'm willing to bet the tvie
would have created sex worth wanting. So context is everything When we assess for sexual problems. We typically look at the biological, or the psychosocial, or the interpersonal, but there's more. There's stuff like what is the quality of sex itself? Is the vision of sex that you have in the vision of your sex that your partner has? Are they compatible? Are you both having
the same idea as to what sex ideally should look like? And if the two of you have different visions of what sex ought to be, then it's no wonder that the sex you end up having might not be desirable for one of you or both of you. So it's not so much about compatibility, though that's part of it, it's about something more basic. What do you want sex to look like? Do you want it to be an hour and a half of leisurely, slow, sensual caressing. Are you looking for something
hot and heavy that lasts for ten minutes? What's your perfect vision? And how do you deal with couples that may have two different visions of sex and you know they're committed to each other intellectually, they may have children, they're going to stay together. How do you treat couples who may have two you know now they're into it for five or seven or ten years, and they go, wait a minute, we want two different things sexually. What's the
answer. I have yet to have a couple who walks into my office with the question for in that way. Usually they frame it as you know that one is a sex addict while that other one is asexual. The reality is they don't bother really talking to each other about what they each want most. And if I can get them talking about what each one would find desirable to desire, disorder quote unquote tends to go away. So I need to get them talking at a level where they can each at least be on this in
page about what they would each find arousing and worth wanting. And if instead of settling for the lowest common denominator, I can get them to shoot for the highest common denominator, they might actually both find the kinds of sexual experiences that would make them each glow in the dark. You know what, this reminds me of the stuff we learned in our BA and psychology. How Sigmund Freud took these women who had these psychosomatic disorders. You know, we call
them conversion disorders today. Back then they called it hysteria, where they literally would have paralysis and blindness, and he could actually just get them talking about what they were experiencing the trauma in their lives, and the physiological problems started to go away. And so I think we all need to within our interpersonal relationships, who are sexual relationships. I do think we need to talk more about sex, not complain about sex, but talk more about what section look
like to us. Don't you agree? I agree with you very strongly, and I'll even go a step further. There's something inherently erotic about making yourself emotionally naked to a partner that when you really reveal who you are, there's something hot about it. I mean, think about what we do when we're dating. We ask each other lots and lots of questions, Oh, where are you from, what did you like when you were in school, what was your favorite subject, what's your favorite color? We get to know each
other, and there's something very appealing about that process. And very often once people get into long term relationships, they stop revealing themselves, and the act of revealing oneself erotically need not stop. That's why I was saying before, you know, just because something works today doesn't mean you want the formula for how to get it right every time. There's nothing more are undesirable then doing what works relentlessly. But if we can change to talk about and reveal who
we are as erotic beings, then yeah, by stage erotic. I often use the metaphor that if many couples in long terminogamy do figure out what works and do that same thing over and over, and then it's like the erogen zones to shrink and shrink and shrink, and it's like they're playing what used to be a twelve string guitar and they're down to plunking one little string left, and we have to sort of stretch it out and play the whole song
and use every note possible. And sometimes you have to like not be lazy, like say what where can we add novelty? What can we do to make this feel different? Because it's an investment in our relationship. I do think of our sex lives. You know, couples will put equal money into their pension funds together, they will invest in their child's education, but investing in their relationship sometimes means investing in the sexual relationship and doing what it takes
to continue to make it great. You know, before we go, I would love for you to give us one little takeaway that every married couple in America can do today or tonight. And I know you're not about tips, tricks, or techniques, but is there something they can think or feel to help their relationship tonight. I'm not about tips or tricks or doing, but I would encourage them to find ways to reconnect emotionally, which will become the
foundation or reconnecting erotically. Isn't that true? One of my favorite studies on men who never cheated. That's an interesting population to study, men who have never had affairs. When they were asked why, they said, well, I had opportunity, but I had such a close emotional connection to my partner, I didn't want to hurt her. It's the glue emotional connection. Thank you so much for being with us, Doctor Peggy Cline Platts. Can you
tell people where they can find your books? They can find Magnificent Sex Lessons from Extraordinary Lovers at their favorite bookstore or online and it's by me and Wonderfu. Doctor Dan m Na, thank you so much for being with us. When we come back. Do you wonder sometimes if you're in a relationship with a narcissist, Well, apparently if you go on the internet, that seems to be like half the boyfriends out there. Well, it's not true.
I'll explain when we come back. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio Apple. You've been listening to Doctor Wendy Waalsh. You can always hear us live on kf I Am six forty from seven to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.