Forever Chemicals

From Tokyo, Japan and New Plymouth, New Zealand. This is Down to Business English with your hosts Skip Montreux and Samantha Vega.

Samantha.

Do I ever have a fantastic Netflix recommendation for you?

Good. I'm always looking for something to watch. What is it?

Madoff, the monster of Wall Street.

Well, I saw a trailer for that. It's the story of how Bernie Madoff perpetuated one of the largest financial crimes in history. Is it good?

Oh, I really enjoyed it. Of course I I knew the basic storyline of how Madoff duped so many people out of their money over the span of three decades. But this mini-series really goes through all of the details. How the Ponzi scheme started, who all was involved, how it unraveled, and how it ended.

Ah it's a miniseries, not a movie.

That's right, it's in four parts. So you'll have to set aside a little time to watch it. It's well worth it though.

Ah, okay, good to know. I'll check it out. Madoff. The monster of Wall Street. Isn't that the story that Martin Scorsese's Wolf of Wall Street with Leonardo DiCaprio was based on?

Oh, no, actually that's another true story. The story of Jordan Belfort. Unfortunately, you don't have to look too far to find a story of someone who has exploited the financial markets.

Mmm, money can be so corrupting.

It's interesting you mentioned that. Ironically, at the time of Jordan Belfort's arrest, Bernie Madoff was the chairman of the National Association of Securities dealers, and he rallied against Belfort. saying that he should be put away for life, and that he's a horrible person, and people like him give Wall Street a bad name.

Ah, trying to cover his tracks maybe. Interesting. Well, that's going on my list of things to watch right now. I'll let you know once I've seen it.

Yes, do that. I'd really like to know what you think.

So what is our topic today, Skip? Something financial related to Bernie Madoff, perhaps?

Everything is financial to some degree, Samantha, but no, it is not related to Madoff. Do you know the expression, nothing lasts forever?

Sure.

Well, apparently there is something that lasts forever.

Oh, what would that be?

Have you ever heard of forever chemicals?

Mmm, forever chemical. Yes, as a matter of fact I have. They were in the news here in New Zealand late last year.

Oh were they?

Yes, back in November a chemical company was fined$169,000 for illegally disposing of firefighting foam into the Fungare Harbor in northern New Zealand.

Firefighting foam, that white stuff firefighters use to put fires out.

Yes, this chemical company, Channel Infrastructure, dumped 60,000 liters of forever chemicals into the harbor.

So does that mean forever chemicals are banned in New Zealand?

Most of them have been for some time, I think.

Well, apparently they are not banned in Europe, but that may change very soon.

And this is our topic for today, Forever Chemicals.

That is our topic, yes.

Sounds good. Let's get into it.

Let's get D2B down to business with Forever Chemicals. What are they? Why is the EU considering banning them? And what will be the ramifications of a ban for the manufacturers who use them?

Let's start by explaining what forever chemicals are.

That is the perfect place to start. Samantha, can you give us a rundown on them? Sure.

I can. The moniker forever chemical is an umbrella term used to describe a category of man-made chemicals that are highly resistant to water, grease, heat, and dirt.

An umbrella term, meaning that there is more than one type of forever chemical.

That's right. Today there are over ten thousand different kinds of these forever chemicals. But the first ones were discovered by chemists by accident, I might add, in nineteen thirty eight.

Hmm, so they have been around for quite a while.

For about eighty years, and in that time they have been used in a wide array of consumer and industrial products.

For example.

Anything from nonstick cookware, waterproof clothing, cosmetics. Food packaging, car parts, textiles, medical equipment, windmills, and of course Firefighting foam.

Wow. They are in everything.

Yes, everything.

You could easily call them everywhere chemicals. Why the term forever chemicals?

Well, their official name is P Fast.

P F A F

Yes, but you pronounce it PFAS, which stands for per and polyfluoralkyl substances.

That is a mouthful. It is. Perr and polyfluoral alcohol. Wow.

And they are called forever chemicals. Because the molecular bonds that make them resistant to heat, water, and oil are so strong that the chemical never degrades. It never breaks down. They literally last forever.

And because they are so resistant, they have found applications in all of these different kinds of consumer products?

There is no doubt they have helped to make our modern lives super convenient. Just think of how useful your nonstick frying pan is. Have you ever tried to clean a frying pan that isn't Teflon?

Haha It's a chore for sure.

Also, think of all the water or stain resistant items that you use or run across in your daily life.

Sure, waterproof shoes and clothing, the stain-resistant surfaces on desks and walls.

All of those are using some sort of PFAS.

So the bottom line is that forever chemicals are super strong, last forever, and have been used in thousands of different consumer and industrial products over the years.

That's a rundown on what forever chemicals are. Yes.

Well, unfortunately, as useful as these chemicals are in making our lives more convenient. About 20 years ago, evidence started to emerge that linked forever chemicals to serious health concerns.

And the key word there is serious. PFAS have been linked to cancer, thyroid disease, immune disorders, even developmental issues in young children.

That's right. Because they don't break down in the environment, they accumulate in the soil, in the water supply, even in our bodies over time. And that exposure has a harmful impact on our health.

The whole situation is quite frightening. A recent study published in the peer-reviewed Science magazine concluded that rainwater, surface water, and ground soil around the world are so contaminated with forever chemicals. that it will be impossible to remove them without inventing some type of new technology.

Which brings us to the ban the EU is proposing.

What can you tell us about that?

Five European countries, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway, worked together over the past three years on a proposal to ban the production, sale, and use of P5. And they submitted that proposal to the European Chemistry Agency, or ECA, on January thirteenth.

So it is just a proposal at this stage.

Yes, it's just a proposal. There are several steps or stages it has to go through before becoming a law.

What exactly is the process for it to become a law?

Well, the first step was making the proposal available to the public, which ECA did. Just last week or a couple of weeks ago on February seventh.

And after that.

Well, it's gonna take some time. Starting in March, there will be a six-month open consultation period where members of the public, scientists, and businesses can comment on the proposal.

Everyone gets to throw their two bits in.

After that, ECA will take everything under consideration and prepare a final proposal to submit to the European Commission to vote on.

How long will that take?

Well they are hoping to submit it by twenty twenty five.

Two years from now?

Two years.

And assuming the commission passes it into law. When will the band take effect?

That would depend on the specific type of forever chemical. If the PFAS is used in a product where an alternative is available, the ban would be effective within 18 months. That would prevent many PIFAs from being used.

And if there isn't an alternative chemical available?

If there isn't an alternative, in those cases there would be an exemption period of five to twelve years.

So it isn't like the EU is leaving manufacturers and PFAS producers in a lurch.

Well, it depends on who you ask.

Sure, it is going to have an enormous impact on any company doing business in the EU. But the bottom line is that forever chemicals are hazardous to our health. And it is better to rip off the bandage than to move slowly on this, regardless of the economic impact.

I would have to agree with you on that. Already, the cost to chemical companies who produce forever chemicals has become too much.

How so?

Take for example 3M, one of the largest makers of forever chemicals. They are facing a forty billion dollar lawsuit in the US this upcoming summer.

Who is suing them?

It's a class action lawsuit involving 18 different US state governments, as well as over 3,000 individuals. who are all claiming 3M knew the danger of PFAS twenty years ago, but hid that information from the public.

Well, if that is true, that is sick, and they should be held responsible for that. Would forty billion dollars even cover the damages?

You know, it sounds like a large number, but it really isn't. 3M has made much, much more than that over the decades they have been producing forever chemicals.

Yeah.

According to their financials, PIFAS were generating over$1.3 billion a year over the past few years.

Well, that is certainly not gonna be the case anymore.

No, it isn't. In fact In December last year, 3M announced that they will completely stop manufacturing PIFAs by 2025.

That is good news. But the more I learn about this topic, the more concerned I am. I'm glad to learn PFAS are going to be banned and chemical companies will stop making them. But I just have to ask, is it too late?

That Samantha is a very good question. For many people, yes, it is too late. For future generations? I hope not.

Very, very alarming.

And on that not so happy note, I think it is time for us to get D2V. Down to vocabulary.

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On our down to vocabulary list today, we have three words and expressions that Samantha and I used in today's report on Forever Chemicals.

Three. Why is that? We usually do five.

I know, but in my role as executive producer of Down to Business English, I have decided to make a format change to the show.

An executive decision. And what would that be?

Well, some listeners have requested that we try to keep our episodes under 20 minutes.

Which is really hard to do if we want to report on a topic properly and discuss keywords and phrases.

It is very challenging. So moving forward. To make the show a bit shorter, or at least try to make the show a bit shorter in length and easier to digest, we are going to shorten the D2V section of the free podcast. and then offer additional down to vocabulary as a member-only episode.

Ah, good idea. Another great benefit of the D2B membership plan.

Yes, more bonus content for our members. So, D2B members, listen closely. As soon as you finish listening to today's episode, go to the D2B website. Log in. Go to your membership account page. Scroll down to the bottom where it says member links. And there you will see two RSS feeds. These are member-only feeds. One of them is for a combination of both the public and member-only podcasts. The other feed is for member-only episodes and bonus content. Decide which one you want to use.

Like Apple Podcasts, Overcast, or Google Podcasts.

Yes, and you can even copy and paste both feeds if you would like.

And once you have subscribed to a member only feed, you will receive all the bonus content when we release it, is that right?

That is absolutely right.

So once again go to down to businessenglish dot com, log in Go to the D2B membership account page, copy the RSS URL, and paste it into your favorite podcast platform.

Easy peasy.

Cool. Can we get started with D two V?

Yes. First on our list today is the verb perpetrate. To perpetrate something means and to carry out a harmful, illegal or immoral act. In the opening of today's episode, Samantha explained that the Madoff miniseries on Netflix told the story of how Bernie Madoff perpetrated one of the largest financial crimes in history.

In other words, he carried out an illegal, immoral, and harmful crime.

Precisely a very harmful crime.

In a professional or business setting, you can use this word to communicate who or what is responsible for causing an issue.

Can you give us an example?

Imagine you're dealing with a customer who is angry because their delivery is

Huh, a very common scenario.

When explaining the reason for the delay, you could say something like this. We apologize for the delay and any inconvenience it is caused. Unfortunately, bad weather perpetuated traffic jams across the city. And it was impossible for our driver to complete his deliveries on time.

That sounds very professional and very polite.

It might calm an angry customer down a bit.

Maybe. What's next on our list?

The phrase to give a rundown. When you give a rundown on something, you are giving a short summary or overview on a topic. In the story, Skip asked me to give a rundown on Forever Chemicals. He was asking me to summarize what they were.

This phrase is so often used in meetings and presentations. For example, a meeting could start with the chairperson saying something like, Before we start today, I would like to give everyone a rundown on the latest developments from the marketing department.

Oh, I've certainly heard that before.

As have I.

Skip, you have a Bloomberg news subscription, don't you?

Yeah, yeah.

Do you subscribe to any of their email lists?

Ooh no, I don't think so.

You should, they have several different daily emails they send out. If you subscribe, they will send you a rundown of the trending news stories that day. I think you'd especially be interested in their tech daily news rundown.

Huh, I don't know why I haven't taken advantage of that. I will be sure to check it out.

You definitely should. Do you have our next word?

I do. Our next and final word on today's public D2V list is the idiomatic use of the noun mouthful. A word or phrase that is described as a mouthful is something that most people have difficulty saying, even native speakers.

In the story, both Skip and I tried to pronounce the full name for PFAS, polyfluoral alcohol.

And I commented that polyfloral alcohol was a mouthful to say. And it is. Many professional words and terminology can be a mouthful to say. I especially think of the pharmaceutical industry.

Right. All those drug names can be a mouthful, like acetyl salacylic acid. The official name of the painkiller aspirin.

Alright, acetylicylic acid. Acetosec acid. Yes, that certainly is a

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Thank you, Samantha.

Speaking with me today and discussing forever chemicals.

No problem, Skip. I wish the topic wasn't so serious. Like I said before, the more I learn about PFAS, or Forever Chemicals, the more concerned I am.

I think we are going to be hearing more and more about them, especially when that 3M lawsuit starts in the US later this year.

Well, when that gets underway, we should give our listeners a rundown of what happened.

We will definitely do that. I am very interested in finding out how much three.

knew about.

I really hope they have not been perpetrating a crime against their customers.

That would be horrendous if it turns out they were. Someone would really need to go to jail.

I agree. D2B members, don't forget to subscribe to the D2B members only podcasting. The bonus down to vocabulary for today's episode will be produced. Within a day or two.

In that bonus content, Skip and I will be explaining an additional five words and phrases from today's report.

So be sure to check it out.

Thanks for listening everyone. See you next time.

Take care.

Have a comment or question about today's show? Don't be shy. Visit the D2B website or Facebook page and post any comments.

Gip, Dez or Samantha will be sure to leave a reply.

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