BRICS: its aims and how it challenges G7 influence - podcast episode cover

BRICS: its aims and how it challenges G7 influence

Nov 29, 202424 minSeason 15Ep. 346
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Episode description

The BRICS nations — Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa— are taking steps to challenge the influence of the G7 by promoting economic cooperation, reducing reliance on the US dollar, and creating opportunities for the Global South.

Skip Montreux and Dez Morgan explore the origins and evolution of BRICS, from its beginnings as a term coined by a Goldman Sachs economist to its expansion as a formal organization. They discuss the group's goals, including fostering economic collaboration among member nations, reducing dependence on Western-dominated systems like SWIFT, and advocating for a multipolar world order. Skip and Dez talk about how BRICS’ growing membership positions it as a potential counterweight to the G7.

Their conversation is a great learning resource if you want to build your English listening comprehension skills and expand your business vocabulary. Key points of their discussion include:

  1. BRICS: Initially a term coined in 2001 to describe emerging economies.
  2. Goals: Economic cooperation, equitable global governance, and greater representation for developing economies.
  3. Expansion: Recent additions include Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, and the UAE, creating "BRICS+," with other nations cooperating as partners.
  4. BRICS+ represents 33% of global GDP and 3.5 billion people, surpassing the G7 in population and rivaling its economic influence.


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Contact Skip, Dez, and Samantha at

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Transcript

Announcer

From Tokyo, Japan and Changsha, China – this is Down to Business English. With your hosts Skip Montreux and Dez Morgan.

Dez

Hi Skip. How’s it going?

Skip

It’s going very well, thank you Dez.

Dez

You’re just back from your trip to the US?

Skip

I am. That’s right.

Dez

And how was that?

Skip

It was very nice. Thank you.

Dez

So, where did you go exactly?

Skip

I was in Texas to attend my nephew’s wedding.

Dez

Oh that’s right. Well weddings are always fun.

Skip

Yes, they are. And this one was especially enjoyable. It was held outdoors on a ranch about an hour and a half from Houston in very beautiful, very peaceful surroundings.

Dez

How nice. It sounds like your nephew and his wife are off to a very good start.

Skip

I think so.

Dez

So, other than the wedding, did you get up to anything else?

Skip

The trip was mainly focused on the wedding, so I didn’t do too much else. Although I did make a trip into San Antonio and did some sightseeing. I’ll tell you one thing though.

Dez

What’s that?

Skip

It’s not a good time for someone from Japan to be traveling to the US. The Yen is at its weakest level in over 35 years. It’s something like 155 yen to the US dollar.

Dez

So what you are telling me is it was an expensive trip.

Skip

Very expensive. I’m scared to look at my next credit card bill.

Dez

Well if you are going to travel there’s no way around currency exchange rates I'm afraid.

Skip

I suppose not.

Dez

Well seeing as how you were just in the US, does that mean you have a US-based business topic for us today?

Skip

Actually, no.

Dez

No?

Skip

My report today is coming out of a meeting of political leaders that took place in Kazan, Russia last month.

Dez

And what meeting was that?

Skip

It was the 16th annual BRICS Summit.

Dez

BRICS? As in Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa?

Skip

That is what the acronym stands for, yes.

Dez

I must have missed that headline. I did not realize they were meeting.

Skip

It was somewhat under reported in the media.

Dez

They certainly don’t get the attention other pan national organizations get. Like the G7 or APEC, for example.

Skip

That’s very true. APEC just wrapped up a meeting in Peru earlier this month and that dominated the news.

Dez

Well, I’d certainly like to know more about this.

Skip

So let’s do it. Let’s get D2B … Down to Business with BRICS. Its aims and how It challenges G7 influence. Let’s get things started with a bit of history behind BRICS.

Dez

Always a good place to start.

Skip

Before BRICS was a group, it was a simple acronym coined by Jim O'Neill, an economist at Goldman Sachs. He came up with the term in 2001 and initially it was just four letters B - R - I - C.

Dez

No ‘S’?

Skip

No ‘S’.

Dez

Why did O’Neill come up with this term?

Skip

He used it to identify the four emerging economies that were expected to dominate global economic growth by 2050 — Brazil, Russia, India, and China.

Dez

So, some twenty years ago, BRIC was an acronym, not an official group.

Skip

That’s right.

Dez

When did it become an official group?

Skip

The Foreign ministers of those four countries started to meet informally on the sidelines of United Nations’ meetings in New York in 2006. Then in 2009, the inaugural meeting of BRIC was hosted in Russia.

Dez

So, when did South Africa join?

Skip

Do you mean, when did it become BRICS?

Dez

I do. When was the ‘S’ added?

Skip

South Africa became a member the following year, in 2010.

Dez

So they’ve been operating for 16 years. Tell me Skip, what is their mandate, or the aims of the group?

Skip

Officially, their stated goals are to promote economic cooperation, development, and a more equitable global governance structure among member countries.

Dez

A more equitable global governance structure. As opposed to other pan-national groups like the G7 or G20?

Skip

BRICS are not saying they are in opposition to the G7 or G20, but they do say those groups favor the West, and their decisions don’t align with the interests of developing economies.

Dez

I suppose they have a point there. And what is BRICS doing to achieve this ‘more equitable’ world order?

Skip

Mm. A variety of things. For instance, they encourage trade and investment among member nations. This is to foster economic development and improve access to each other's markets.

Dez

Sounds reasonable.

Skip

They are also trying to strengthen political discussions on international issues so that the interests of emerging economies are better represented on the world stage.

Dez

Nothing wrong with that.

Skip

And they want to enhance cooperation between member states in science, technology, and information sharing.

Dez

Which would drive innovation, which in turn would lead to stronger economies. All worthwhile targets really.

Skip

But perhaps the most significant topic that has been on the BRICS table ever since their very first meeting in 2009, right up until today, has been the need for a new global reserve currency.

Dez

Something other than the US dollar. Well, from the perspective of those particular countries, hey that makes sense too.

Skip

It does.

Dez

Especially when it comes to the US dollar being the primary currency used in global oil transactions.

Skip

Not to mention SWIFT, the global payment system. It is very difficult to move money around the world without access to that international banking system.

Dez

On one hand, I can clearly see the need, even the importance for an organization like BRICS, to better serve the needs of developing economies. At the same time, it's hard to believe that such a diverse group of countries could reach any type of agreement with each other.

Skip

That has always been a criticism of the group. And if it was a valid concern when BRICS first formed, it’s even truer today as more and more members start joining the group.

Dez

So, it’s not just the five countries anymore?

Skip

No. Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, and the United Arab Emirates were all invited to the 2023 summit last summer, and then they formally joined in January this year. This group is now informally known as BRICS+.

Dez

Kind of like OPEC+.

Skip

Similar, yes. Argentina and Saudi Arabia were also invited to join.

Dez

Hold on. The idea of Saudi Arabia and Iran belonging to the same group is a little surprising. The governments of those two countries have very conflicting aims.

Skip

True, but don’t forget that they are both members of OPEC.

Dez

Sure, but that’s strictly about oil production, something they have in common. And even within OPEC, Saudi Arabia and Iran don’t always see eye to eye. And when you consider Saudi Arabia’s long standing relationship with the US, it’s a little surprising that Saudi Arabia is considering becoming a BRICS+ member.

Skip

Well don’t worry too much, Dez. Saudi Arabia announced last month that they will not be joining BRICS. Instead they will simply cooperate with the BRICS countries when and where appropriate.

Dez

In other words they’re playing both sides of the fence a bit.

Skip

Hm. That is one way to look at it.

Dez

And what about Argentina, are they playing both sides of the fence too?

Skip

No. The opposite as a matter of fact. Argentina officially declined the invitation to join BRICS at the end of last year.

Dez

And what was the reason behind that decision?

Skip

I think that is mostly down to the election of Javier Milei in November last year. As a right leaning libertarian, the economic views and political thought of his party are more closely aligned with the US than with BRICS+.

Dez

I see. So let’s back up a bit. What about the other four countries that have joined? What's the rationale there?

Skip

As you would expect, there are a variety of agendas for joining. Egypt and Ethiopia would like to attract foreign investment, particularly from China. And both countries would like to have more political influence in the region.

Dez

Those reasons make sense.

Skip

Plus, Egypt would like to be able to trade using local currencies and reduce its reliance on US dollars. Ethiopia hopes that being in the same group as Egypt will ease some of the tensions between them over their Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam, or GERD project.

Dez

Ah yeah, I’ve heard about that. Ethiopia started building a hydroelectric dam on the Blue Nile River back in 2011 and Egypt is not very happy about it.

Skip

What are they upset about?

Dez

The Blue Nile is a tributary of the Nile river, and something like 85% of the Nile’s water flow comes out of the Blue Nile.

Skip

Is that right? So Egypt is worried the dam will have a negative impact on their own water supply.

Dez

Very worried, in fact. I’m not sure their BRIC memberships are going to help smooth things out. I know that Egypt sent a scathing letter of protest to the UN Security Council in September over the issue, accusing Ethiopia of violating international law.

Skip

Really? I was not aware of that.

Dez

And what about Iran and the UAE? What's their motivation for joining BRICS+?

Skip

Well, as everyone knows, Iran is operating under heavy Western sanctions so they gladly welcome the alternative economic partnerships that comes with a BRICS membership. The opportunity to align with other nations that share similar views on resisting Western hegemony is an attractive one.

Dez

Of course. And the UAE?

Skip

Like Iran, The UAE is a major oil producer so they benefit from closer ties with China and India.

Dez

Two very large consumers of oil.

Skip

But on top of that, I would say Israel's war against Hamas is another reason the UAE joined.

Dez

How does that conflict play into it?

Skip

The Israel-Hamas war has created a lot of tension in the Middle East.

Dez

Clearly.

Skip

That has probably pushed the UAE to align itself more closely with other Muslim-majority countries, like Egypt and Iran.

Dez

Right. They're trying to navigate a very complex landscape and balance their relationships with Western powers as well as their regional counterparts. Do you think the UAE and Iran joining BRICS will lead to any significant changes in foreign policy?

Skip

We will see. At their meeting in Kazan in October, the group did issue a statement condemning Israeli military actions in Gaza and Lebanon and called for an immediate ceasefire.

Dez

Evidence that they’re acting as a counterweight to Western influence.

Skip

A counterweight to Western influence, yeah that is a very good way to put it.

Dez

But just how much of a counterweight can they be? BRICS+ is only nine countries after all.

Skip

Actually, it’s a little larger than that. In addition to those nine main members, 13 partner states joined last month too. Partners include Algeria, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Nigeria, Thailand, Turkey, Uganda, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam.

Dez

Wow, that’s a pretty long list. And collectively they probably can be an effective counterweight to the likes of the G7.

Skip

What is interesting to me is that seven of the nine main members and eight of the 13 partner states are Global South countries.

Dez

The Global South?

Skip

The Global South refers to nations who have economies that are characterized as developing, less developed, or underdeveloped.

Dez

As opposed to the developed economies in the West. So, it includes regions such as Africa, Latin America, parts of Asia, and the Middle East.

Skip

Precisely.

Dez

China must be by far the largest economy in BRICS and therefore hold a lot of sway.

Skip

Absolutely. And in his speech at the BRICS meeting last month in Russia, Chinese President Xi Jinping advocated for “a common march of the Global South towards modernity”.

Dez

In other words he is encouraging everyone to work together.

Skip

He also promoted a multipolar world order where emerging markets and developing countries will have greater opportunities to participate in global decision-making processes.

Dez

Well, that certainly sounds like a direct challenge to the status quo of the G7.

Skip

It certainly does.

Dez

So, break down the numbers for us Skip. How does BRICS+ stack up against the G7, in terms of size and economic power?

Skip

Great question Dez. G7 countries represent approximately 30% of global GDP, while BRICS+ stands at 33%. In terms of population, BRICS blows the G7 away. 3.5 billion people live in BRICS countries whereas the G7 only has a combined total population of 774 million.

Dez

That really puts things into perspective regarding the potential influence of the BRICS+ on the global stage.

Skip

It is eye opening for sure. There is no doubt that BRICS could play a crucial role in shaping economies and future policies that reflect the interests of developing nations.

Dez

And on that note, I think it's time for us to get D2V … Down to Vocabulary. I will get us started today with the business expression to put something on the table. When a topic is put ‘on the table’ it means that topic has been made available for everyone to see, discuss, or read.

Skip

It is often used in negotiations when one side puts their ideas or terms on the table and are open to negotiating them with the other side.

Dez

In the story Skip told us that the idea, or topic, of a new world reserve currency has been on the BRICS table since their first meeting in 2009.

Skip

In other words, the idea of creating an alternative to the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency is an idea BRICS has been discussing ever since it formed.

Dez

Can you give us a business example using this expression, Skip?

Skip

Imagine you want a pay raise so you go into a meeting with your boss to discuss it. He or she might tell you that business is not very good for the company at the moment, so a pay raise is off the table. However, since you are a talented employee, other means of compensation might be available or on the table.

Dez

Like a company car or a monthly housing allowance if you move into the company dormitory?

Skip

Exactly.

Dez

In that example, notice that the opposite of ‘on the table’ is ‘off the table’.

Skip

Moving on, we have another common business phrase that uses the phrasal verb to back up. The expression is to back up a bit.

Dez

The phrasal verb ‘back up’ has several meanings. So to understand this idiom, you need to understand the context in which it’s used. It could mean, to literally move backwards. It could mean to make duplicates, or copies of computer files. Or it could mean to support someone.

Skip

That is all very true. And if someone says it in conversation, they could be indicating that they want to return to a topic that was mentioned earlier in your discussion.

Dez

And that is how it was used in our report.

Skip

That’s right. At one point in our conversation, after I had explained why Argentina had declined their invitation to join BRICS, Dez told me to back up a bit and asked about the four countries that had joined the organization in January.

Dez

Skip had previously mentioned them, but had so far only reported about the countries who had not joined BRICS. So, I wanted to return to those four countries and get more information about why they joined.

Skip

It’s not a difficult expression, and it's very useful for controlling the discussion points in a meeting.

Dez

Our final word for D2V today is the noun hegemony, which means leadership or dominance of one country or group over others in a particular area.

Skip

It’s interesting that British and American pronunciation is different for this word. American English uses a soft ‘g’ and British English uses a hard ‘g’. So, I pronounce it ‘hegemony’.

Dez

And I pronounce it as ‘hegemony’. In the report, Skip mentioned that one reason for Iran joining BRICS was that they wanted to align themselves with nations that share their views on resisting Western hegemony.

Skip

I was saying that one reason Iran joined BRICS was they wanted to have closer relationships to other nations who had the same views about resisting Western dominance in economics and political power.

Dez

Can you give us an example from the business world using hegemony, Skip?

Skip

Sure. There has been a lot of discussion in US courts recently about breaking up Alphabet, the parent company of Google because it holds such a strong hegemony over the search engine market.

Dez

You and Samantha reported on that in D2B 337 - Google’s Antitrust Battles.

Skip

Yes, we did.

Dez

A similar action was issued against Alibaba in March 2023, when the company was restructured into six independent companies.

Skip

You and I reported on that in D2B 256 back in May last year. Alibaba’s Big Break up and the Return of Jack Ma.

Dez

We did? It must have slipped my mind.

Skip

No worries Dez. At our age, memory slips are a part of life.

Announcer

Would you like to help D2B reach more people wanting to improve their Business English skills? Be sure to follow D2B on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or any place podcasts are found. While you are there, leave a rating and a review and tell everyone how much you enjoy the show.

Skip

And that is our report on BRICS. We hope you enjoyed it and found it informative.

Dez

The Bonus vocabulary episode for today’s D2B will drop in the next few days.

Skip

The words and phrases we will focus on in that Bonus D2V episode will be — to foster, to be diverse, to see eye to eye, a counterweight, and to hold sway.

Dez

If you’re a D2B member, that bonus D2V episode will be in your Members-only RSS feed very soon. So you want to make sure to have copied your Members-only RSS URL from your account on the D2B website and pasted it into your favorite podcast app.

Skip

And Apple Podcast subscribers, you don’t need to do anything. The Bonus D2V episode will appear automatically in your Apple Podcast app as soon as we release it.

Dez

Thanks to all of you for your support.

Skip

And if you are not a D2B member or Apple Subscriber, please do consider becoming one. They are great ways to support Down to Business English and will help us provide more D2B episodes on a regular basis.

Dez

To become a D2B member directly through our website, go to d2benglish.com/membership and sign up today.

Skip

That’s d2benglish.com/membership.

Dez

And to subscribe through Apple Podcasts, just visit the Down to Business English show page in the Apple Podcast app and click on the subscribe button.

Skip

Thanks for listening everyone. See you next time.

Dez

Bye bye.

Announcer

Down to Business English … Business News, to improve your Business English.

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