Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlowe Thomas, and we're going on a series of double dates to find out what makes a marriage last. You only have to be around Sting and Trudy Styler for a minute to feel the electricity between them. Their building is a gorgeous modern with lots of curves. In fact, Sting says he was attracted to it because it's so female, no sharp corners. When we first walked into their home, there was Sting tucked into the sofa with his head in a book.
He told us the boss would be here in a moment, and right on Q Trudy breezed into the room. She invited us to sit at a long wooden table where every chair was a different color. I chose the red one and Phil chose the green. I could immediately see the connection, the little touches between them. They even finished each other's sentences. Interestingly, when they first met in nineteen eighty two, they were both with other people and that's
where our conversation began. We were neighbors. We were neighbors British, We're both British, were from the north of England. We found ourselves in London living with other people, but neighbors. You know, when you meet somebody and you recognize them. I mean that might be wisdom in hindsight, but I recognize Trudy as someone that I could spend the rest of my life with better. I saw it clearly. I just knew who she was instantly. Well, that must have
been cutter hard if you were neighbors. It was very difficult at first because we were not supposed to be together, so we fought that off for a couple of years. That instinct en, did you too know right away or it's like a recognition of somebody that you you feel you know, we actually don't really know, but there's something that is drawing you too closer to someone. And of course it wasn't it. It was the least ideal situation that you can imagine. Neither Sting nor truly were prepared
for the feelings. The situation would unleash that, and then when it happens to you, it's like it's a It's just like a storm coming at you, a tidal wave. And when we began being a couple and moved in with each other, you know, it was it was not without its challenges, and the media interest was right, and the media interest was how did you know trust each other? How did that come about? I think there was there was a chapter in our history when there was us
against the world. You know, we were in a foxhol and you basically have to trust that person because you're surrounded by danger. So I think that was very formative. And I was a mess and she protected me. When when I hear questions about you know, oh you madly in love and passionate and all of that, all of that is, yes, it's true. But I think that friendship too, you know, needs to be part of a discussion about
the longevity of a marriage or a relationship. Otherwise, within these circumstances that us coming together, we couldn't have lasted. And you are brought up the thing about the passion. Of course, all over every word we read about the
tantra sex, is that what it's called. We had a viewed President Carter and his wife and I and they talked about reading the Bible every night, and I said, won't have you more interesting if Sting and Trudy Ray read the Bible every night and President Carter his wife and wild sex. That would make a better book. How do you know they don't, Well, we don't have this kind of sex all the time. I mean, we have a pretty intense sexual charge between us still, But as
Trudy said, it's that's kind of ephemeral. What's important is that I really like this woman and she really likes me despite knowing me. And that's so important. I mean, the sexual thinking cool off. It doesn't have to be supercharged the whole time. But the affection for another person when she walks into the room, she likes my room up,
And it's got nothing to do with sex. Actually, it's all to do with liking the way that person presents herself in the world, liking the decisions she makes, the comments she makes, the observations she makes, and respecting them and really enjoying her company. I enjoy her company. What do we do like a good hotel room? Though? Right, how don't you keep us sexy life going? With kids in the house, I wouldn't be catching up with staying on,
you know, on various tours. This is a man who's you know, I'm married to a gypsy who you know, he's his life has been tenerant. I like that word. Perpatetic tell us the basis of the tantra sex. I think it's called tantric sex. Okay, we've we've studied yoga for over thirty years now. Yoga comes from the same route as the word yoga. And what yoga does yokes your movement in the world with your consciousness of it. So you can be sitting down and doing yoga, can
be standing up and doing yoga. You can eat and do yoga. You're connecting it to something greater than yourself, to a spiritual life. You can have sex and do yoga. You know, sex is a sacred act. You can make children. You know this, You make children that way. So it's it's not just a stretch for me, because this is a sacrament that we share too to celebrate existing, being alive, being together. And it's got nothing to do with how long you make love for it. That's that's just silly talk.
It's actually about being conscious about what you're doing. You know. This is the tabloid version, is that we have sex for you know, five or six hours. And what Sting is saying is it's about really like being connected to that person to take time, you know, and I don't know what the time could be, but it's during that time that you're together. It's you're together, very connected to each other, you know, kissing for a long time, like
preparing a meal together, eating together. Just like that, you feel that you're at one with that with with your love. Yeah, yeah, I've never been. Yeah, occasionally, but that's a wonderful explanation of it. Well, you know, I say to Staying, like, I love you in the in between moments of life.
The other day, we've had some some sort of upsetting news about a friend who's got a health crisis, and and I could see how sad you looked, and we were just right right here, and I took your face in my hands and looked in your eyes and I just held you, and I could see that you actually, amidst the sadness that you felt, fear, and I acknowledge that with you know that we've had so many years together that are now behind us, and so we also become aware when we get to the age that we
are that it is going to end. But for me, in that moment, the in between moment of holding stings face in my hands and looking in his eyes, it's like, please, let us be well and have these moments forever kind of about in a personal conflict. Certainly, you know this is not a Disney movie. There's one of you power, there's one of you shut up. We don't actually fight very much. No. I tried fighting with thing because I used to be a very volatile person and he's taught
me to be a less volatile person. And I'll tell you why. Because he does not deal with people yelling very well at him, and he has a very simple way to it's probably in your psyche very complex. But when I thirty something years ago, did my trudy yelling at you for I don't know whatever was upsetting me. You just the veil just comes down and you just like look at me. And I remember I'd started to yell and I'd said I can't, we can't, we can never yell in front of our children. I really said,
out a rule. And he was not a yell or anyway. So I said come outside. And we were living at Lake House, and we went up to for a little walk and I was like shouting and yelling and then you climbed over a fence and there was a field of sheeps there and I carried on with my leg and you're this and you've absolutely always you bluddy this and you and I looked around and these sheep were all going and then I looked at your face and you're going like So I was thinking, voice of my energy,
we'll have more. After a quick break, we're back to our interview with Sting and Trudy Styler. When we left off, they were recounting an argument they had. Trudy was shouting in a field of sheep, while Sting calmly looked on in silence. So I thought, I better, like switch out my strategy of trying to resolve conflict. How can we do this best? Accuse? Yeah, I mean when you get mad, it's hard to say, okay, let's have a nice talk, or I don't accuse you of anything, and you don't
accuse me of anything. I mean, my family were very voluted. My parents were always fighting, So I never wanted that in my life. That was just toxic for me. So you were instructed to behave in an apode. Yeah. I think I was educated by watching my parents, who were very young. My mother was a teen much yeah, my father was twenty or something. I saw how they reacted with each other in front of us. And that's the last thing I wanted, I think, And I don't lose
my temper now, actually don't. How about your parents, I think my dad was just a very shut down person, spoke monosyllabically, literally staying. When he met Harry would say, you know, my father would go you're up. Then as soon would say, yes, Harry, I'm up, and then someone would leave the room and say you're off. Then yes, Harry,
we're off. Now. He had this thing about never speak until you're spoken to, and that led for quite a lonely life, and a very lonely life for my mom, who was very vivacious and very outgoing and very kind of like assertive, and I always felt that she envied wives with more gregarious husbands. I noticed Sting touches you a lot, as he might be he might be queuing
me to shut up. It's a sign of affection. I think that, you know, when he touches me like that, I consider that, you know, for somebody who's you know in my sixth is that when my husband says I look beautiful, and or he admires the dress I'm wearing, I start to walk on air. Again like I did when I was thirty. However, if I don't like what's wearing, say it. I know so does my husband and say, look, if you want to believe me when I don't like it, then it's the same when I want to say I
like it, I'm telling the truth. So you make a choice. We can trust that it still hurts your feeling. Sometimes he tells me on the way down in the elevator, I got, oh god, it's too late because I make the stupid mistake of saying do you like this? And
he'll say, you have better things than that. Do you feel that if you drift away from each other because you've been traveling a lot, or you have your own issues while you're making a movie and you're really busy and you've got a thousand fires, just let out and you as well. When that happens, how do you reset?
I think you have to raise a flag and say, look, I'm feeling we need to sit just sit down and not even talk to sit down because I lives are so busy and I sometimes I don't like the cell phone. She's on the cell phone work. I don't like it to feel that's invasive. I mean I will make a call on mine and then I'll turn it off. Yeah, this is my habit. That's a problem for me because when stings on the road, he makes the call to me every day, and if I miss it and I
try to call him back, his phone is off. So it's like I can speak to you on your terms, but you can call me anytime you want. Actually, it's that's not true. You're not easy to get either. The big accommodation is absolutely no phones. When we eat, it's a ritual, it's a ritual. And then when you sit down that they're coming together over food and wine. It's
a sacrament. It's like we're all together now. But I can see that My life as a producer involves this constant communication and putting out fires of you know, all the things that go wrong on sets with films and television stuff, and it's it's it's it's a constant because as a producer, you're like mom, It's like mom, something else has gone wrong, and right, can you say what you think is the strength of your marriage and what is the weakness of your marriage that you have to
work on. I mean, it's not something that is just kind of settled like a treaty, well, constantly negotiating and constantly navigating each other. But a rock star to fall in love with a rock star, big mistake is a very dangerous thing to happen, isn't it. Where are you going with this? I'm a romantic wie. It's a stereotype. Yeah, it's only it's only partially true. How do you know though? It's how do you know? You know? It used to be really difficult with just feeling so jealous all the time.
That's right, Yeah, it was that, And I am a very jealous person. So I've had to you're literally saying, so, yeah, so I've had to sort of like look at what where does my jealousy come from? And growing up, you know, as one of three girls, being jealous about getting attention was like something that we had in our household. Where were you in the order? Middle? Yeah? Did you do
that with? So not to begin with, because I was sort of like trying to, you know, really swallow my pride about well I'm pretty too and I'm the girlfriend now and to assert myself as getting through this sort of like rage of young women saying to me like, do you know how lucky you are, and I sort of like he's a fucking lucky one, which I think I did say a few times you must and now you know, it's sort of like it goes away. It's
sort of like lessons. I felt that when I first met Phil every woman in America wanted to be married to him. In fact, when we got married, I got letters saying how could you marry him? You know, a woman wrote me and said, every morning at nine o'clock, when my husband and children leave the house, I put on my lipstick and turn on Phil show. I mean, they actually had a fantasy about him. So it certainly isn't the same as as with a rock star because
that's so sexual. And so I don't know. So did you tell Stane, did you say, look, I'm having trouble with this or don't. Well, he walks very fast, and I used to like wear enormous high heels and Azadina liar dresses and like be really kind of like dressed to the nines when we were in public, and you know, take a lot of effort to look so great and
sting to navigate hordes of people. He would be walking like in front of me to get away from all the crowds, thinking that I would be all right, and I would sort of feel like, I look like six inch heels, I can't keep up with you, And I wouldn't keep up with you even if I was wearing sneakers, because I saw that he was navigating that public persona
thing really bothered me. But then you know, we started to We talked about, you know, jealousy issues and me coming to terms with his public persona and his private persona really nothing to do with each other. No, I've been there too, Yeah, and I think it's jealousy is in everybody's heart, everybody you get territorial. This is my guy, Yeah, don't touch him. And I know the girls that I know the women, I know all of the ones. As soon as I come into a room, I go like
I have I can kind of pick him out. Oh yeah, this one, I like that one. Be those I know his taste in. Yeah, he's such a gentleman and very enigmatic with the way that he does it. But of course I know him so well. I know his body language so well. I know every those eyes who have they you know, they seemingly you know when I'm fancying somebody on the on the cinema screen TV. I lean over and I say, the third one on the right. Yeah. Well, I love that you walk into a room and can
spot the ones. Yeah, that's so fascinating to me. Yeah yeah, can you do that too? Yeah, he knows my taste as well. Usually older men, I'm the youngest man. It's true you lived together for how long before you ten years? You lived together for ten years. We had three children in the ten years that we lived together, So I assume you you recommend that living together. Yeah, no, I don't really. I think that I had no idea when
we got married. First of all, we got married because our kids had started to be a bit bullied at school because we moved from urban splendor London. You know, everybody living together and not particularly being married, and that was okay, But moving into the countryside in England is a very different thing, and not being married and having three kids going to school, it became an issue for the kids. Why didn't you marry? I didn't re marry.
I think it was because I'm going so well for I think that what I remember you saying is the biggest failure that you ever felt, was that you failed in a marriage, you failed your marriage, and that you never wanted to fail again, and that I respected that. So I think I was okay with it for a few years. And then one of the kids came back from school and said, somebody said I'm a bastard. Is
it true? I said, no, that's your dad. When you got married, after living together and had these babies and all, once you got married, did that change anything? Didn't make it different now that you had signed this covenant. It actually people gave truly much more respect and deference than they did before. And then we were both I was proud to say, this is my wife. Yeah. I remember the first invitation that came to us after we were married.
It had always been even in the ten years that we were together, these you know things that you're invited to Sting and guest. It would really smash my feelings, you know, and I would often decline or have somebody call and say that Sting and Trudy would be delighted to accept and whatever. But when I remember the first invitation that came mister and missus Sumner, and I was like, oh, and then you know, I didn't have to try so bloody hard after that. So, what do you think makes
a marriage last? Luck? I don't discount that word that it's when you say luck, you mean it's it's a four thing. Yeah, but I think that we when we look at someone's chemistry with each other and there's an instant like I know I like you. In our case, we laughed at the same things, and we noticed that we laughed at the same things. We were similar ages, we're from similar backgrounds, our terms of reference, nostalgias are the same. You know, our brand of humor is the same.
And I remember there was a there's a wonderful quote from Jean Paul Sartre's wife. She said, why share a room when you can share the world? And we do share the world, and she was right. It's like I feel him almost, you know, in his absences where he is, and I sometimes my intuition tells me I don't think things very well today, and I'll call and you know, I can feel that. You know you're in my orbit. Do you feel that? Yeah, you just sort of psychically
get connected up, especially when we're traveling. Yeah, exactly. And I get great excitement when Sting's been away. You know, I'll pretty myself up for his return, and my heart will beat faster. I know he's coming home. He's coming home today, and I'll be as giddy as the young girl. You know that's great. So there you have it, the unbreakable bond between Sting and Trudy Styler. Until next time. I'm Phil down A Hue and I'm Marlowe Thomas. I
think we've tortured. It's just the most wonderful thing to talk to such an inspiring couple as you so much. I don't blame you for marrying each other. I would have married either one of you any time. You're adorable, both of you. Double Data is a production of Pushkin Industries. The show was created by US and produced by Sarah Lily.
Michael Bahari is associate producer. Musical adaptations of It Had to Be You by Sellwagon, Sympinette Marlo and I are executive producers, along with Mia Lobel and Letal Molad from Pushkin. Special thanks to Jacob Wiseburg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars, Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostak, Jason Gambrel, Paul Williams, and Bruce Kluger. If you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review. Thanks for listening.