John & Justine Leguizamo

find number fifty one. What it's said on the building was eighteen fifty four, eighteen fifty little plaque outside outside, So you think it's ten years before, Yes, sir, yes, sir. I love the field knows this Kindiston. Don't play trivial for suit with him. You believe the room, they won't fly forget trivial pursuit. This house was just teeming with history. We've lived here about ten years in this house. And is there is there another family above you or do

you have the home? We have the whole thing. Our kids live upstairs when they're home, both in college, their home for the summer, so it's just us. New a little garden in the back. We have a garden in the back that John takes care of. And did you remodel a lot? We didn't gut renovation pretty much. Yeah, we restorted back to what it was originally. Oh as closed, like this floor from eight nineteen hundreds. Yeah, yeah, like this part of the floor is the original floor from that.

You can tell by how beat up it is. I mean it was underneath exactly exactly. We settled in by a window overlooking the tree lined street outside. So how did you, guys? Meat? Were you? We met out a movie actually John was in Carlito's Way and I was a costume pa and we met at a fitting. No, I mean the first time I saw her it was it was electric. I mean it was incredible, and she's like the finest one I ever seen. And then we started dating and then you know, and she said yes yeah, yeah,

eventually he said yes, yeah. I took a few years. Was it electric for you? Absolutely? I knew, really, I knew immediately that we should be together, But there was at first fitting. I really did. Yeah. So she was so first of all, incredibly sexy and beautiful, but also at the same time she was like something really connected.

But I knew who he was from because he had already done Mombo Malthain Spicker and so I was working for the costume designers and I asked them if I could go to the fitting and how Yeah, and it was it was kiss may I mean she made it happen in sort of a way and then it just yeah. So and you had been married already. I was engaged. I was engaged at the time that I was. We knew each other a long time before we started dating. I'm not. I'm not the police. Were you ever married before? No? No, No,

I wasn't either. Well you were mad before two? Yeah? He had five children? Whoa yeah in six years birth control was yeah. But it was interesting because I didn't get married to him and I was forty And he said, uh, how did you know? You know not to get married. How did you not do it? I said, because I'm a female. You know, guys think you know somebody else is gonna take care of all. Yeah, I knew. I don't want. I don't want to do that. I want to be an actress, yeah, I want. I want to study,

I want to travel. I went to London and did a play and you know, I was going but I still forward thanking for somebody even back then. Oh yeah sixties. Yeah. Um. Anyway, so you met and you got married much later if we had children first, So our kids, our daughter was born in nineteen ninety nine. Why we just thought you didn't want to be married or I think we had different reasons. Actually, for me, I didn't feel like I wanted to be married. Um, it just didn't mean anything

to me. I always knew my whole life I wanted to have children, but I just never really saw marriage as part of my life. I didn't see the point. It just wasn't it. I thought that was really sexy. I thought that was like, oh yeah, I like that. You'll raise again Katholic and Seven day Adventists. Oh really? And then all my family converted to Evangelism. Oh wow, How did your parents feel about you not marrying a Latin? Was that a problem? We'd line of people. We don't

have those issues. We love everybody, We want everybody to love everybody. Yeah, we fearful. So I was raised sort of Jewish, but barely. I mean really, my parents were atheists, so they never said a word about it. I think they were so relieved that I had found someone I don't know that they ever thought I really would. I was extremely independent, and so when they saw how much I loved John and how what a wonderful man he is, Uh, they never said a word about it. They were a

beautiful man. They really accepted me like right away, and I love them too. You know it was easy. What made you get married? Huh? With the kids are older and you felt it think, yeah, I think we were going they were going to go to school, and we'd have we'd have separate different names, and all that stuff

gets complicated for me. I felt after nine eleven happened and there was all that talk of like you can't travel with someone's nut, you don't have to say name, and there was like this weird moment, I mean, yeah, made you really think, rethink life and the values of in your values. And so we got married, We got

a country house. We just changed life a little bit, just to just focus more on on the moments, the important moments, you mean, the family, Yeah, family, values, friends, you know, the things that really matter that really count. At the end, I'm Lebanese, which is actually Arab, right, and so people were talking terribly about right people, so you know, and I found myself having to say, well, you know, I'm kind of arab Lebanese jo. I couldn't let it go. No, you have to have to speak up. Yeah.

So coming from different cultures, because you really did come from the Hispanic culture, right, Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean we came from very different socio economic backgrounds. But I think opposites attract for a reason. I mean, I mean it's just that such a natural thing. So what was

your background? Us? Upper west Side Private School in New York. Uh. You know, my grandparents came from Russia, and then my parents were both born in Brooklyn, and my dad worked hard and after the Upper Warst Side exactly so, and my nice Jewish Yeah, I went to Field thin everyone I knew was just like me, and it was a pretty small world. And yeah, and then I grew up, you know, kind of ghetto in Queens and you know,

getting in trouble and fresh air, fun kid. And then I started to find creativity as a as a sort of means that saved me, gave me a future, and gave me a whole way of using everything that I'd grown up with as ammunition and as and I used art as a weapon to you must have been getting left too. I mean, talking about it as a kid, did you get left? Oh? Yeah, you know. I was a funny guy. Yeah, at the same time, but I was also getting into a lot of trouble because I

couldn't I wouldn't shut up. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I mean I came up at a time where I felt like we were incredibly invisible, even though in my personal life Latin people were everywhere, but they weren't in the media. And it's still kind of like that, were still at less than three percent of the faces in front of the camera, and yet LA is fifty percent Latin. How is that possible. It's almost like present day apartheid and in New York City where the same number as

white people, and yet there was such a dearth. It was just a desert of our stories being told. And I just couldn't understand that, and I didn't want it to perpetuate it. So I started writing my stories so I could see my people even though I was playing them all right, when you say that you were living among them, did you live in Hispanic neighborhood? Yeah, I grew up in a Hispanic neighborhood. You know, my school was black and Hispanic Latin into New York. Yeah, I

went down. I went to high school at Bertram High. Yeah, and there was a lot of pride. And that's that's I guess that's what gave me the confidence that our stories aren't any lesser. Well, i've seen you in concert. We're both every time. Actually, yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for supporting. I know it came down to the public, remember, yeah, yeah, we love the Moron Show and then Lumbo Mouth. Thank you.

That was nineteen ninety. Yeah. With John's cultural identity so central to his life, I wanted to know if Justine felt connected to a Jewish community. Not at all, except you know, a lot of the people that I grew up with are so I hear about it through them. But I haven't been to a temple since I was ten twelve years old. Way, did you give anything to your kids like that? Or did you celebrate Christmas or oh, yeah, we did. We celebrate Christmas and Eastern and then my

family comes and they celebrate Passover as well. Yea, my mom comes to all that stuff. We love getting to love traditions. But I mean I'm not religious. I mean I believe in in in a higher power, and we did this. We did a Palm Sunday. We would go Palm Sunday. And it's beautiful because these people improvised this and then there's a lot of singing, this gospel, this Latin music. It's so beautiful. I love the colors and the you know, the robes, and yeah, yeah, I love it.

But I don't believe in God. I don't have that sort of a faith, but I certainly believe in God. I think there's somebody there. He always says, will you think they're in the sky as I didn't think. Marlo blesses herself in turbulence when we're on an airplane. That's smart. Calms down, we'll have more. After a quick break, we're back to our interview with John and Justine Legozamo. While they seem entirely on the same page, they grew up

in very different circumstances. So challenges do arise, especially when you're raising kids and sharing a home. To me, I always thought like, of course they'll go to private school. I wouldn't have thought it wouldn't even occur to me to do anything else. I think, But we were just actually today having this conversation where John really wanted them to go to public school and because that's all I knew. I grew up going to public schools. And why did

you think that's better? Just because the real world. Yeah, it's a real world, and everybody's of color, and it just it was so much fun and I don't know, sometimes it was tough, but a lot of times it was incredibly fun and exciting. And I learned so much in school from people then, not from the teachers that were different. You mean, just our culture is so much from black and land culture is so much fun that we're always in and dated with it, you know, right,

I loved it. So was that an accommodation that you decided to make. I don't know that you voiced those feelings at that time. Oh you did, Yeah, I just said, listen in the ear it but your kids went to public school? No, they went to private schools. Oh so you may become yes, interesting why I tried to weigh all all the factors and go, you know, they're going to have a celebrity name, and maybe that might not be so easy going into a public school system to

have coming from where where we come. Now, our kids this sort of new income. Right, it may not be as comfortable, right, you know what I mean? Like I had nothing, and all the kids that I went to school had nothing, so we were all pretty even an equal, right. But what happens if you if you have all this and you're and then you go to school with kids that don't have enough? How is that going to feel? Right? So I thought maybe that might not be so good a name. You have a name, then it's like, is

that going to cause problems and strife? Right? Now? We live in the Brownstone because I need separation to be able to write. Oh, I can't be on the same floor because I can't write. So she made that concession living in a Brownson when she rather live in an apartment. We tried living in an apartment for a few years, but John was so miserable that it just wasn't worth it. Hi. Yeah, and there's too much stimuli and I can't. I need to be with my thoughts. I mean, look, I married

an actor who was his life. It was no surprise to me. I knew him for years before we got married. I knew that he was going to be traveling a lot, and that there was no clear schedule and it's not easy. Yeah, we're like circus folk, you know what I mean. It's like I've been an actor for so long that I didn't understand the sacrifices she was making because I was so used to being uprooted all the time. I had no control over geography or time or destiny. That you

just surrendered to it. You got work. But that's what I mean. Yeah, I mean it was that's hard on a on a marriage, It's hard on race. Did you take We tried at first, Yeah, but it was really difficult to travel till they were five. We took them and then we stopped and then I stopped, We stopped going. Was that hard on your marriage? Yeah? But you know we tried to keep a two week maximum. That was a thing. I don't remember any sort of that, Yeah, but that was that was That was may We tried.

But you know there were months. We didn't see each other for months at a time. I mean, it just was it hard on the marriage. I mean I guess at times, you know, marriage isn't easy. So when all that traveling, there must have been some jealousy, right, a

little bit of jealousy. I was very jealous of Pella, you know right now when when he traveled or yeah, and he's away and the women love famous people or men love famous people, and you know, there's something alluring about a person who's talented, very sorry, oh and famous, famous, good looking, funny. Hey yeah, No, I think the jealousy is the other way around, right, Yeah. I am not a jealous person. I don't have it. It's but I'm a jealous person. Oh yeah, yeah, So when you left

for a long time, that musn't have been hard. Yeah, that bothers me. Yeah, you know, and like yeah, so yeah, no I had issues, So tell us what did you do? Well? We talked about it. We talked. We were pretty articular. It wasn't like fighting. It was just more like, you know, voicing that, you know, I'm uncomfortable with this. I'm uncomfortable with that. That bothers me. And she's incredibly understanding about that.

So like male friends and stuff like that. Right, that's exactly because I lived in Hollywood and Phil lived in Chicago when we first met. In our first a couple of years of marriage, we traveled and he would read the paper that I'd gone out to dinner with, like Chuck Groton, who like an old old friend. And he'd say he went to dinner with Chuck Rodan. I'd say, he's like this old friend of mine. He directed me in Two Things, co starred with him in a movie.

You know he said, yeah, but you know I feel a little uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right right, there's the two of you. Yeah yeah, okay, did you stop? Yeah? Yeah? I mean too, Yeah, it's not worth it. But I would watch him on television and all these women would look at him like it was a big ice cream cone. I think, oh God, are they going to come up to him afterward and tickle his fancy? And what's going

to happen here? None of that matters because I know that his ultimate commitment is to me and my children and our life together. How do you fight and how do you come back? Because if you don't know how to come back, that's usually how marriages. I believe you shouldn't say things you can't take back, and I try. She's not as so as good. She's not as good as with that part of it. I mean, I'm more mean.

She'll say anything. I can be enraged, but not say things that you can't take back or do things that I can't take back. It's very rare that he really loses control. When I say rare, I mean less than five times and the whole time I've known him. When you are less, I have less of that skill. Maybe I mean I don't get mad like that very often, but maybe tend to lose control of my emotions more than John does. And then how do you come back? Who comes back? John? Before? You should be me all

the time? It was always me like, come out, Let's try to make up. There's not going to bed mad, Let's try to fix this up. We just let it out and we're fine. Now let's just go back to talking. Let's talk it out. And I don't have as much problem apologizing, I think as I is too. I'll just I'm much easier to say I'm sorry. I think getting rid of that kind of pride is so important. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't help anything. Who was it that said to it? Oh? Rob Reiner said? Whoever said that love me is ever

having to say your sorary has never been in love? Right? Right? If you don't say I'm sorry, you're in love really right? Yeah? Because you got you gotta make amend and you got it often, and you gotta take accountability. If you don't have somebody who's accountable, I mean, who, what kind of

those were you with? Try right? When when do you think either one of you can answer this that you first trusted, knew that this was a person you could trust, you know, with not just sexually, but with your head, you know, with your heart, you know. To give you an example, when Phil and I were going together, we met in January and this was August, and so this

was his big vacations, two week vacation. At While we're in Italy, I get a phone call from Elaine May, who you know, my good friend and we had worked on a screen screenplay together. And she said, Mike Nichols movie has just gone has just gone caput, and he's looking for a new project. You've got to come back right away because we have a chance to get Mike to direct this. I said, Oh God, Atlanta, this guy's only got two weeks. This is it. I said, if I if I come back now, I'm done with this

guy and I we're pretty crazy about each other. It was a really hot time in It'll lay the two of us. Ah, God Jesus, So I go back to the room and I explain the whole thing. He says, well, it has to be this week, but is it's a funeral. I said, no, it's no, but it's just you know, he's going to decide now. And he looked at me like I was the most disposable human being he'd never

known in his life. And I and I said, look, I don't know your business, but and I know this is a really great time we're having, but is there anybody if you got a call to do an interview with that you would leave? And he just thought a moment, he said, Jimmy Carter, and when president at the time, right right right when he said that, I thought, I can trust this guy. This guy is not going to bullshit me, right and say no, there's no one. There's

no way I would leave you. You know that he was willing to think and say, yeah, okay, there's one Jimmy Carter, and I I think I feel deeply in love with him that he would not, you know, sexually calm me like that. Anyway, I didn't go. We didn't get Mike anyway, but I didn't leave for you. Yeah, I think those are those are important life moments. In life, when you go this person i'm with is more important than my career, right, you have to make that decision

and show it. Sometimes that's what I could trust. That. That's I don't know of a safer thing than that. That's a big one. Mine is a small one, though, but even a small one. Small one is that we had a date early on, and it was at the Angelica, because when the Angelica was everything, you know, like all the hipsters, everybody was cool, was going to Angelica to see the latest in the indie film and you were late,

and I flipped out over lateness. Really it sets me off because I was pathologically early, so I was there for like forty five minutes too early. And then she comes late, so I was really upset, and she was so upset. She started crying and I was like, oh my god, you don't remember any of this, Oh my god,

if you're standing in the corner. And I was very upset, trying to not be upset with its very early odd and but she was okay with me being this hotheaded about a stupid little thing, and yeah, and I was like, oh my god, she cares about my feelings and she doesn't. She's not saying you're an asshole, You're an idiot, you're a moron, what the hell is wrong with you? Crazy?

I'm only like twenty minutes later. Whatever it was, And I don't know, And we spent a lot of time talking about it, and we didn't go to the movie and we just spent a lot of time just talking about and she was trying to calm me down, and I just, I don't know, I felt really heard, really respect it, and I don't know, I just, yeah, maybe fall in love with her even more. She's never disappointed

that she's always been like that. Yeah. I think the first moment for me was we started I think we had started dating in August, and it was like very soon. We had been together about a month and Thanksgiving was coming up and we were starting to think about Thanksgiving and John said to me, let's get all our families

and all have Thanksgiving together. But we'd only been together a month, and I thought, Wow, this is really serious, Like he wants my entire friend and they did, and so we had all the families that we had, like fifty people it was, and I so, yes, I trusted him at that point, I thought, well, he's really serious about this. I think it's this one beautiful thing about Justine. She tries whatever the situation, where the problem is, She's willing to put the effort and just try, and that's it.

Doesn't have to succeed at whatever the challenges, but she's willing to try for me, and that makes me fall in love with her every single time. That's nice. I think seeing a bigger picture than just what's happening today, you know, whatever sort of annoying small things are happening on a daily basis, just remembering, you know, we have a bigger life that we've created together, and we have a past and we have a future. Marriage goes in cycles, and there's good times and bad times, and if you

just hang on, you'll get to the next cycle. Yeah. I mean, you got to know somehow that this is the person you want to spend the rest of your days with. I know that Justine and I could have a great life forever, forever. So there you have it, our lively conversation with John and just Stine Lebozamo Until next time. I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlow Thomas, and I think that that makes us work on it. It makes me work on it, and I think that's that's

fun too. That's what keeps it exciting. Double Date is a production of Pushkin Industries. The show was created by US and produced by Sarah Lilly. Michael Bahari is associate producer. Musical adaptations of It Had to Be You by Sellwagon, Symfinette, Marlo and I are executive producers, along with Mia Lobell and Letal Molad from Pushkin. Special thanks to Jacob Wiseberg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars, Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler,

Emily Rostek, Jason Gambrel, Paul Williams, and Bruce Kluger. If you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review. Thanks for listening, bo