George Stephanopoulos & Ali Wentworth

his rickey. So when we got a chance to visit with them in their stylish and homeye apartment on Manhattan's East Side, we knew it was going to be fun and revealing. We settled into their living room to chat and marlow asked Ali to tell us how it all began. Twenty years ago. I was talking to another single woman and I had just had a torrid love affair with this British actor and I was ready to be serious

and she said, oh, me too. And I said, I'm going to introduce you to my brother, and she said, I can introduce you to my old friend, George Stephanopolis and I said, no, no, thank you very much. I'm from Washington, d C. I grew up around journalists. That's the last thing I want, you know, were your parents journalist? Yeah, and in the White House, I just I wanted Matthew Perry or Hugh Grant. You know. I just was like,

I don't want that. And so a few weeks later, I was coming to New York and I thought, you know what, I'm going to call him. It'll be a great dinner party story. My date with George Stefanov. I mean, it practically writes itself. So I thought, we'll have an interesting conversation and that'll be that. And I couldn't believe when I left lunch that day, on an April day, April fourth, that I said, I'm attracted to him. I'm attracted to that guy. It's not that, but I think

the differences, Honey, it wasn't a blind date. I knew who you were. I knew exactly who you were. You were not my type. I wasn't your type. That's so interesting to me. Everybody always says, including us, I knew, you know, we knew, I knew, we knew I was. He interviewed me on his show, and we were lovers the next day. So that's that. Yes, we were very quickly into that, but we we knew and that was it.

And I'll tell you, you know how you know you when you know, you know, every other man that I had dated or had a relationship with, I was so concerned with sort of performing who I was, you know, and I just didn't feel I had to do it with them, you know. So the first time we did, I did go home with you. There wasn't a like how's my breath or oh god, my cellul lead or I just I didn't care at all. And that was that's when I really knew that I wasn't pretending to

be this you were auditioning. No, I had gotten the part. What about you? It wasn't even I mean, it was immediate, you know, as close to immedia as can possibly be. I mean, we went out two or three days in a row. What what what can you? You had dated the Isle of Manhattan? Well, I mean it, and it's not and it's some based on some crazy idea of perfection, because you're right, I was forty. I dated a fair amount, but I knew this was someone who I could decide

to be with you know, forever and be happy. And it's just like it's it's it's a it's a leap, it's it is. It's it's partly faith, partly intuition, attraction, and but it's nothing I've ever questioned from like, like within hours. We were engaged two months later and I was like, what is taking so long? And I had been engaged before really yeah, boxer rings if you know what I mean. Yeah, but it was never even close to not happening. Never. I think age is also a

factor in marriage. I just do. I all my friends that got married in their early twenties are not married now. You're just not the same person, not all of them, the majority. Immediately, one of the things we had to learn was how to accommodate respect and change with each other. I mean, we're similar in a lot of ways, but there's the kind of I am definitely an introvert despite my job and like being out socially and all that. It's hard for not hard for me, but just its

like he drains me. She gets energy from being with these people. Yea, And it took us we should have gotten married. It's one of those things in life of the party. You know, for me that's been great because it's opened up a different side of myself. I think you've probably also gotten more in touch with your introverted side. Yeah, definitely. I mean our kids have mixes of both. I'll give

you an example. When we were first married, we would argue because we would go to an event, a party would take me an hour to get out the door because I talk and talk and say goodbye, and George would be sweating, you know, by the front door. He had the God it goes. And now I not only do I completely understand that, I even know when he looks at me like we're out the door, no discussion,

I don't even say goodbye. And we've also learned you don't have to do everything together, Like when if I don't want to go to something, it's not a reflection on you. No, Yeah, that's that's a big thing we've We've had to come to that because Phil doesn't want to go to every fundraiser for Saint Jude Children's Research, which I drew nine thousand a year, and I at first I said, you have to come, And then after a while I thought, why does he have to? Really?

Where was he go. I've started to realize that when I married Marlow, I married a hospital Somewhere. During the reception of our wedding, Danny stood up. My knew father in law stood up on her wedding. You said, I haven't lost a daughter, I've gained a fundraiser, and he did, and he had been on the show a couple of times. Yeah, we got along very well, and I got along very

well with her mother, an Italian who didn't like Irish people. Well, well, that's another interesting thing about marriage too, is that you know, if he had married a Greek Orthodox, that would have been the jackpot. I just slid in. But I had to charm them. But what are you do? You have a faith of your own. I'm a pure wasp. Mother's name is Muffie Mayflower wasp. But also we I mean it's we're also lucky in that way. We've never had in law issues, except for one fight over the wedding.

What was the fight. Well, his mother is a very strong minded Greek woman. My mother was social secretary of the Reagan White House six feet tall. So when we decided to get married, it was very clear that these two women were going to dominate the planning, and we said have fun. Our feeling was we wanted to marry each other. We're not going to get I was not a girl who had a vision board about what my wedding was going to look like. So I've said fine, And it was a dog fight those two. So how

do you two fight? We fight, not but how constructively we didn't use too I had a tendency to be a meaner fighter, but you well, yeah, you're definitely a meanor fighter. But that's you know, that's good to learn how to navigate that as well. Right, she can be a little more of a louder fighter. I'm a little bit more persistent on making sure the conversation is truly resolved. The thing that we've realized what the friends that we know that don't make it is they don't know how

to come back. But to come back, you actually have to go through why you have to finish it. You have to just make sure you're actually communicating everything you need to communicate. And that's the only way. You can't just let it. You just can't push it down, right. And also you hear from other couples that didn't make it. They had fights and they would spend days not speaking to each other and then soon that kind of cannot imagine that. I can't either. We've had fights till the

sun came up, till we resolved. It wasn't good for the guy who was interviewing that morning. And was that when you first got married or you still could do that, the timeline is definitely shorter. Yeah, but we always end our fight by having sex generally. Yeah, I mean that's how you that's perfect. You have to really end it. Yeah. Well that's what a memo said about there's only one way out of a bad fight, and that's makeup sex. Yeah, it's essential. It does, it does make it go away.

It kind of think, oh, what was that, right? I mean I kind of like, what's happening here? Yeah? Yeah, no, I I think so too. And and and the premise of each fight is I mean the premise, I mean we we also both know we're not going anywhere. That's a big one. Too many people go into marriage and they think as kind of has an escape clause. Yeah, it won't work. You have to believe and know that this is and then and I know that, Yeah, I guess for some people, so obviously people sometimes get divorced

for very very good reasons. We start from the premise of it's not going to happen, but one of the way when you talk about trust, when Phil was divorced. When I met him, we were pretty hot and heavy and flying to each other in the middle of the night and all this crazy stuff. And at one point I said to him, you know a sexual glow. Oh my god, what would have happened if we'd met when you were married? And he said, well, with all due respect, nothing would have taken me from my wife and kids.

And I thought, I can love this man. I can love this man who's not bullshitting me. You know he won't. We'll have more after a quick break. We're back to our conversation with George Stephanopolos and Ali Wentworth. By this point we've covered most of the basics, so Marlowe steered the conversation to Ali's favorite subject. All right, Well, the fun thing about interviewing you two is that you talk so much about sex and nobody does. That's great, thank you, No,

it is. No, it is great because we're well, it's not naughty, especially when you're married. Yeah, well, it's never naughty. It's it's rare. Yeah, exactly. So when you've written advice books and so what is your advice about sex? My advice to married couples about sex, Yeah, have it, Yes, have it, and have it on a regular basis, because I have found in talking to the great many women who I have very honest, open relationships with, if you're

married and you're not having sex, something's wrong. I have my girlfriends like, if George is unavailable to me for whatever reason, he's working or he just doesn't want to chew on the fact that so and so are getting divorced and I need a four hour conversation, I go to my girlfriends. But the one thing I have with

my husband is a physical relationship. And I know way too many people who you started hearing, yeah, well we never have sex, red flag, and then a few years go by and then they get divorced or somebody has an affair. And I say to my girlfriends, you know, if you have the stomach flu, I get it. But otherwise you've got to push it. We're all tired, we all have kids and lives and careers, and you have

to push yourself. Alie always makes fun of me because I always I am skeptical whenever she talks about all these stories she hears about it married couples not having sex. I sort of, I mean, obviously people go through periods, but I don't sort of don't understand the point. There are a sexless marriages more than you think, George maybe. And then do they break up, Yes, they break up.

They have affairs, right, yeah, more mostly affairs because you know, you sort of need a net to right to actually leave. But it's it's amazing, and it's amazing how many couples tolerate it and for how long they tolerate it for. But guys don't talk about it, do they not? Really? Yeah? No, I mean like women will say I'm not having or I'm having or it's really great or whatever. I mean, we we not only say are you having it or you're not having it? What kind of problems are you having?

And right now everybody's in menopause, so everybody's coconut oil, coconut oil, coconut oil. I mean people girlfriends help each other, you know, or no, But I mean that this is the stuff that people want to know about it. One of the things marriage is about, obviously, is sex. One of the things marriage is about is trust. No, but see, I think all of it, it all sends from this one place, which is people say to me all the time, what is a secret to your marriage? You and George

are so different. I don't get it. People in the back room of our wedding we're making bets on how long it was going to last. And I don't know why. But you know, eighteen years later, he walks in the door from work and I'm just as attracted to him as I was the first week we were dating. I just I go, look at that sexy man. I'm so sweet. All the time, I'm mad at you, and I'm not going to let you know that. But no, but when Phil goes away or I go away and we're going

to get back together, I'm excited. I'm fixing up. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think I hope you feel the same. Yes, talk back, But I mean I think that it starts with that, and then the sex is around that. And I think the trust. Trust is a huge thing. Of course, because it hasn't in a question is like I said, it's just lucky. No. In fact, when people have affairs or marriages break down or break up. I'll say to George, you would never have an affair, and we both start laughing.

Like if somebody came to me and said, your husband's cheating on you, I would laugh. That would be my first reaction. Absolutely not, no way, it's not. It's just not in his nature. But but how do you know that? That's the thing. I feel the same way about Phil. In fact, Phil's producers once said that when a woman comes on to Phil, he's not doesn't really realize it. That's just who he is. He's not there. George realizes it. He just he just shuts it down. He just there's

no there's nothing back. But I'm an actress though, if someone flirts back to me, I go, oh great, But what do you do when somebody comes on to you? I mean, do you say something or do you nobody's that explicit? You have a wedding ring, right, because some women don't wear wedding mans, which I think is really like that's just yeah, like, look, I maybe I am available, you know, but I mean I guess I'm just so sometimes it makes them even more wanted when they stand on. Yeah,

women think it's a chance. I don't think. I don't think there's any part of me that invites it. Marlo bought a wedding band from me. It's six feet wide. It's actually no mistake at all. And if a woman gets too close to me, there's a When he was on the year, I used to love that, he'd have the microphone in his hand, this huge gold thing. Yeah hello, yeah, okay,

did you ever go to it? Never went to marriage counseling? Now, yeah, I have nothing against it, but yeah, yeah, we Yeah, we've been pretty I mean pretty good at figuring out on our own. Actually, it's funny, that's what We've probably ended three fights like that though. What put that card on the table. Let's go to counseling, and that forces us to do it ourselves. I do it, I say it. But do you ever use the I'm leaving hardy people

do that? I know that's a scary car. And if you have high abandonment like me, that could that has significant repercussion. If you say, well, we're going to get divorced, then I'll go have an affair because I think we're getting divorced and I have to get my next because I have abandonment. And then you say I'm just kidding, and I go, oh, I already had an affair. Now I am leaving you. It's a messy. See if there's anything, oh stress, I mean with us, we used to if

one of us panicked, the other one would panic. Also we had to learn not to go crazy at the same time. Oh no, I think we if one of us is panicking, the other one doesn't. Yeah, pretty much. If he's panicking, let's say over a job thing, I know, just a quiet down at home. Well, Phil does something that just kills me. If he has a hurt look on his face, I'm just absolutely mother Teresa, I just will do anything. I'll go out and pick up lepers. I'll do anything I can to get that look not

to be there. Yeah. And I do that with the kids too. If I see, if I see he's going through a hard time, I will say to them, put all your bitchiness in a box. It'll be nice to dad. That's nice to daddy. Make daddy a card, be nice to daddy. Exactly what do you think is the biggest challenge you've had to face. We've been so lucky. I think there are many doors you have to go through, and the you know, the first one is how do

we co exist together? But you never know when you marry somebody what kind of parent they're going to be, you know, So then you go through that door and then then becomes just the life stuff. And we have a teenage daughter who's about to have big surgery, and so we're going to sort of be a solid couple together to help her get through this period. So I know our marriage well enough to know exactly what it's

going to look like. His strengths are to be the problem solver to check him with the surgeon, and you know, he'll be that guy and I'll be does she have a blanket? And I'll do the nurturing stuff, and then he'll know when I need a little comfort, and I'll know when he's slightly freaked out by seeing his daughter in this condition. And we know how to do all that. Now, we know the kind of the dance and we know the needs, and so you know, God forbid, bigger mountains

are ahead of us. I know what I can rely on him for. I know, and he knows what he can for me. That's great. I once took my son to baseball practice, and then I went to pick him up. He got in the car on the front seat, closed the door and he said, I get cut. I'm telling you. I mean it was like an arrow in my heart. And I started talking, Oh, yeah, I got cut when I was you. I don't worry about it. I don't

know what the hell I said. Now, obviously getting cut from a baseball team is not the worst thing it can happen. It is at the time, it is. Yeah, we had something like that just before you guys came here, our daughter. You know, this typical middle school, high school stuff about who's having a party, who's got to invite, who didn't get invited, And the truth is, when it's your daughter, it's like, it is heartbreaking. And then our conversation that we do, what do we do? What do

we say? You know yet? How do you keep your distance from it? How do you have to let her learn from it? And you have to sort of just sit there while she cries? Oh, she cries. And all I want to do is go find that girl that's already inviting all her friends except her killer. And I have to reminder she can't do that, all right. I texted him, I said, do I call the mother? And he said no, And I trust. I think he's right and you know, but that's right. How we do it?

What would you pass on to, you know, to people about to be married. There's a lot of hard stuff that happens in life. We have to celebrate the good stuff. You know, we have, you get you know, your contract gets renewed. Let's celebrate it. We don't have to be obnoxious about it. Could just be the four of us, but like, let me make a cake and the kids will stick some Eminem's on it and say good for you.

And I mean more than birthdays and stuff. I mean, you know, special things, and you know, in our anniversary, I don't like it to be taken lightly. I don't want a diamond necklace or a you know, some expensive painting. I want the two of us just to we write, you know, letters to each other. But I want us to say, like, hey, it's your eighteen, look at us. I still love you. You know that those moments are

not to be sort of tossed aside. I think the biggest thing, the thing I would think of, don't be afraid. I mean, let it disrupt your life. By definition, that's what you're doing, and it's that's going to happen all the time. Be open to the changes that being married or to bring you every single day gets. You're right. I mean, I don't know sure this is all guys, but I tend to be more creature of habit, and he gets set in your ways and you have to let kind of a lot of things just happen every day.

Let the chaos in. If you're about to get married, if you have any pangs of hesitation, listen to them. I have two friends who were about to get married and had that feeling of dread. One of them cried hysterically all the way to the church, and I was in the car with her, and it wasn't crying like I'm getting married. It was it was as if she was going to be hunk in the village square, just hysterically crying. And I kept saying to her, you know, we can turn the car around. I agree with you.

If you if you have if there's anything holding you back, listen to it. And then the flip side of that is remember how you feel this day every single day. Try to at some point remember that, because there are going to be a lot of times when you remember how you feel on the wedding day. Yeah, remember remember how you feel this day, why you're doing it today, who you're doing it with, what you love about that? Did your friends? Mary? No? And in fact, three kids later,

she says I never should have married him. Oh God, I said I could have told you that in the car ride over there. Do you think that you've changed a great deal since you're getting married. I think I've a much richer, fuller person for marrying him. Oh, I think you've definitely changed. I mean, it's hard to know exactly how, because it just happens every single day. I'm definitely better preparing him. Yeah, I got an anchor. He doesn't question himself a lot. He's he's solid, has more

integrity than anybody I've ever met. And for me, that's incredibly grounding. She brings all of life into the house, everything, a whole world of beautiful stuff and friends and family, and it's like it's opening up in Tira Vista for you. For me, that's the very sexy George Stephanopolis and Ali Wentworth. They are such an entertaining couple they should charge people just to talk with them. Well, I'm glad we got in for free. Until next time. I'm Phil Donahue and

I'm Marlo Thomas. Thank you, Thank you, guys. You guys are great. Double Day is a production of Pushkin Industries. The show was created by US and produced by Sarah Lilly. Michael Bahari is associate producer. Musical adaptations of It Had to Be You by Cellwagon, sim Finette, Marlo and I are executive producers, along with Mia Lobell and Letal Molad from Pushkin. Special thanks to Jacob Wiseberg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars, Carl Miglio, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostak, Jason Gambrel,

Paul Williams, and Bruce Kluker. If you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review. Thanks for listening.