Stream Wars: Bots & Beef - Lab 088

I'm TT and I'm Zakiah and this is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. Now, there's no debate that Kendrick won the rap Beep with Drake. I mean, hands down. TKO called the Sandman lights out. Drake is a corpse, okay, and we can't ignore that. It feels like a real sucker move to.

Issue a lawsuit as soon as you rise up from the dead.

But maybe, just maybe those allegations deserve a closer look.

Maybe they do.

So this week we're diving into the state of streaming.

So what do we know?

I feel like if you've been paying attention to anything, or if you just remembered downloading songs that say aol music at the beginning of them, you know, the streaming services were at one point seen as the saving grace of the music industry.

Yeah, I saw where b York. You remember her mm hmm, singer song.

I remember what she looked like in those outfits.

Well, so she's like a Swan, she's very edgy.

Okay, Well, she just said streaming is one of the worst things to ever happen to musicians. The tides have changed, okay, and so now it's time for us to kind of change how we're looking at things. So we're putting those streaming services like the one you know y'all might be using to listen to us right now, we're putting those under the microscope. Okay, So what do we want to know? Well, you know, I know for sure, I'm like, what's going on?

What's going on?

So, like, you know, my main question is is some of this just sourenness from public humiliation by Kendrick or is there actually some merit to his claims. Drake is really seeming like a poor sport. But maybe he's just saying the quiet part out loud.

That's fair. I think that's fair.

And if everyone is getting so many streams and we're all listening to their music, why is everybody so grouchy.

Is being number two that much worse than being number one?

Or is the key to actually making it as an artist having your own masters? Because you know, Maggie Stallion was talking about that, yup, and some other people have been too, so like, is that why everybody's a grumpy? And what lies ahead for streaming? When we consider AI and bots? I mean, ai've been taken over so many things, and I mean including Drake.

We heard that Ai, Drake m h ay y'all.

Taking off everything except the dishes in my sink. Hello, Okay, nobody's doing this laundry. The laundry just pile up on the bed. I'm sleeping on top of it. Okay, who's gonna fold these clothes?

Right?

I think they're using it in the wrong areas. But that's a lot of questions, and I'm not ashamed of those squestions. I don't know a lot about all of this me either, But that's fine because that's just what Dope Labs is for. Let's jump into the dissection. This week, we're talking to Professor Eric A.

Drott.

He's a professor of music at the University of Texas, Austin and author of streaming music streaming capital. His work dives into the political economy of music streaming and exploring how digital music platforms have reshaped the way music is produced, distributed, and consumed. We'll start with some streaming platforms like Spotify and Apple Music. They really have revolutionized how we listen

So I think it's important to recognize that there are a lot of positives about the advent of streaming.

I mean, definitely on the consumer side.

And if you told me when I was fifteen twenty years old that you know, in a few years time you'll be able to just like click a button get access to anything I have, you know, just been in heaven at the very thought of it.

So that's great from the perspective of artists. Creates a global marketplace.

So if you blow up, you blow up at a global level, right, I would.

Think that blowing up at a global level is a good thing. You know, more people, more streams. When I was checking the stats, it said that there are over six hundred and forty million monthly active users on Spotify, and that Spotify captures the majority of the market, but Apple is only a couple percent points right behind. That's a lot of people listening. And if I'm an artist, I think I like those odds. I'm not really seeing the problem yet.

There are several problems of from the perspective of artists. You know.

One, there is this phenomenon. It's not new to screaming. It's known as winner take all markets.

Right.

A good example of the sort of dynamic is something like a sporting event where we're talking about fractions of a second, and so like fractions of a second from you being the world champion to you not even being on the podium. And so one of the things about winner take all markets is that you get this dynamic where these tiny, tiny differences in absolute terms lead to these massive disparities and relative terms.

Okay, you see in the world of.

Music very vividly, where you know the top artist you know is going to make basically two times probably like the next top artists, and then you know it will go down kind of exponentially from there.

Okay, so this is kind of like when Ricky Bobby was intelligent to Night saying, if you're not first, your last. I didn't know that movie had economics in it.

The more you know, Yep, the Beyonces, the Taylor Swift's, these are the global superstars who were like doing very well by the current system. But it drops off Pray radically, very quickly.

I feel like now Drake's complaints are making a lot more sense. If you're not number one, your pockets are being affected. If this is a winner takes all market.

Absolutely yeah.

So I mean basically, several months after Not Like Us, which was kind of the last word in the beef, It's very hard to see how Drake could come back after that.

After that was released, he filed a couple of lawsuits. I mean the first couple they were like pre litigation. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't.

Really understand some of the nuances here. They weren't really lawsuits, but they're like pre litigation, there's something like that.

But Drake dropped those pre litigation submissions and really honed in on Universal Music Group. That was strange because that's his label. What's he saying about them?

It's basically accusing Universal of a few things, one of which is that they engaged in a defamation against him.

Since you know, essentially Kendrick is.

Calling pedophile, right, and you're saying, that's affirmation that because Universal agreed to release this right, because they gave the green light for the supubilis that they are a party to that defamation.

So that's part of it.

But then another part of is that, you know, he's saying that they did certain things that were either questionable legality or just playing illegal. I'm not sure, but you know, definitely dubious.

Right.

So this is a legal side from Drake to Universal Music Group or UMG about Kendrick saying he's a pedophile and likes young girls. And I mean, T T I get that, because if that's not true, this SE's and desist or whatever, you know, stop it, Okay.

Stop that.

You can tell we're not lawyers, but seriously, separate from the defamation. What's wrong with UMG? Promoting a song like they have a vested interest in it doing well.

So one thing he says, which I think is one of the most interesting things, He says that you know, UMG, whitelisted the song, which means that basically, UMG, they have the right to exclude other people from using it unless you pay the money, right, And so, like, if I were a TikToker or a YouTuber, Instagram reals person, I want to put like this song up there, you know, basically Universe will come in and block it, right, flag it saying this has an unauthorized recording here, Okay, But

Saying, so put that thing up. You know how on YouTube sometimes it'll say this head is a copyright claim or there's music in this that can't be used. Drake is saying, why didn't y'all put that up for Kendrick Lamar song exactly?

And then the other thing he says again like this is actually technically illegal, you know, he basically says that they engage in payola, which there have been controversies for I mean decades, the concern record labels paying. Back in the day, it was radio stations. Now it's streaming platforms,

Of the stuff is outright illegal. All that is like very questionable.

If this is illegal, why didn't it blow up even bigger? Why aren't other artists outraged that UMG is doing this and that it hurts their streams? Aren't the other labels outside of UMG? Upset I would be right, or were people just fixated on the actual beef. Hmm, that's a good question.

I Mean the thing is is that, like this is kind of an open secret that this happens, right, and it happens with the major labels, right, I mean yes, a lot of of you know, young up and coming artists will try to use bots or paid streams in order to give their stuff a boost and get a bit of traction, bit of visibility.

You know.

One of the hardest things about streaming platforms is like getting heard because there's just so much music. I mean, this is going back to like, what are the problems streaming platforms? That's a big one, right, because it's just so hard to break through. But you know, even though for the past few years, you know, all the major labels and a bunch of other stakeholders have been you know, making a hue and cry about you know, the problem streaming fraud and how there has to be a crackdowns

So Drake is kind of onto something and highlighting a problem that you're saying is kind of systemic. It's not just a personal thing, it's it's something that has been going on for a long time that does cause issues. So do you think that these actions, the lawsuits and the refilings and everything like that, are ultimately going to do more harm to his reputation than good for the music industry?

Oh?

Yeah, no, definitely. I mean it looks bad. I mean, I'm sorry, like it just like, I'm no expert in rappies, so this is like to me, this looks pathetic, right, I mean it looks sad. But you know, I you know, I mean, Kendrick just to play the Super Bowls, right like, I mean, like, you know, I don't know how much more attention like can be drought to this song. But you know, well, okay, fine, you know you're accusing UMG of using these questionable methods, methods of questionable legality.

To boost Kendrick. You're also a universal heart, right.

Yeah, I mean we can put to you know, you may have benefit from this in the past.

You probably have benefit from this in the.

When he was beefing with Meek Mill, probably yeah.

Or or just for any song that he's released, right, you know.

I mean, and there have been cases like I remember, oh, I can't remember which album it was, but like they had the entire Drake takeover of Spot five's homepage, where like every playlist had his picture on it, and wow, you know, like so it's like I want to listen to, oh no, like Beethoven and so like a picture of Drake's on it, you know.

A minute, Yeah, what's happening?

Yeah?

Is Beethoven black?

That's also a debate.

We'll bring you back again for that one.

The thing to remember, right is that these platforms are really dependent upon the major mabel's catalogs in many ways, right, And it's not just like the current catalog like what's popular right now, which obviously they dominate, but also the massive back catalogs.

Right.

It doesn't really make sense to call like Universal Record label because what it is is like kind of a holding company for all these smaller.

Labels that it's acquired over the years.

So jazz labels like VERV, labels like Island Records, which really s all the like Bob Marley recordings in the nineteen seventies, Interscope right, big hip hop label, and the list goes on. You know, platforms really rely on all that music. You know that these major labels have managed to gobble up over the decades, and so that means that they will basically do things in order to appease the labels.

You're helping us really understand, because I think too often people are talking about the streaming platforms as being the big dogs here, but really the record labels with these extensive catalogs, like, somebody's got to populate your platform, so they have the ball and if you want them to stay in, you want them to keep playing. And so it does feel like this kind of tug of war of power or the recording each other to keep music

I think obviously it's better to own the masters than not to own the masters. And this is obviously one of the main ways at the record labels. Why have they become so powerful, right, is because the additions of getting access to a the funding that you know, record label usually provides in the form of an advance and be then the marketing and the promotion that you know, especially major labels are able to provide. The sort of cost of all that is that you usually have to

That's a tricky trade off though, because how can you see into the future, Like I got my masters, but maybe I needed that marketing and promotion.

The thing is, it's in a lot of cases, for the overwhelming majority of artists, you may own your rights, but they may not be worth very much because you didn't break through, right, And this gets back to that question the winner take all kind of nature of music economies in general.

Okay, I want to rewind is something you mentioned earlier because you briefly mentioned this FBI case where this guy he uses AI to make music. Then he gets all these bots to stream this music that he's making with AI, and he makes well, he should have made like millions of dollars. Yes, yes, and so considering this case, but also considering this technology in a winner takes all market I feel like he carved out a pretty good spot for himself. I mean, aside from jail that might need ahead,

Yeah, and we don't even get much visibility.

Yeah, So what do you think this means? What do you think is next? What do you think we're gonna see.

More of this?

I think one of the things that at least right now is a comfort probably for a lot of artists is that even the most sophisticated AI generators and music that produce is still pretty right, and so you know, I don't think there's much competition, and like people listen to music for all kinds of reasons. Just as important, i'd say in a lot of cases is like a sense of connection with the artists, right, So.

You don't have that with like AI generating music. Right.

So I think that the idea that this is going to like displace artists is you know premature. Let's say, I mean, who knows what's going to happen ten twenty years from now, but I think right now, I think I think one thing also to bear in minds, like when we talk about AI, we can be referencing all kinds some different things. I think a lot of times people think about you know, AI generate songs, it could also mean things like the sort of vocal clones.

Right, So there's the Fake.

Drake song that came out almost two years ago now Hard on my Sleeve, which was kind of the big wake up call for the industry that this technology had reached a certain point where you could have somebody basically, you know, create a track and use one of these vocal masks in order to like emulate the sound and

Yeah.

I Saebob sing Luther Vandra style, and I was like, I'm not convinced that SpongeBob Patrick.

Yes, Patrick, I think there are two main concerned So that one is that already when you look at the catalogs or the databases of these major platforms, you know, the number of tracks.

That they have is absolutely eye watering, right, Like, I mean Spotify has over one hundred million tracks. And you know, we were talking before about how hard it is to get heard, right, and if people are uploading forty thousand tracks a day, right, it just makes it all the more difficult to break through. And you know, maybe some portion of those are AI generated block but it doesn't matter. It's just adding to the noise that you have to get past. So that's one problem. I think the other

Which, Yes I'm playing this, yeah, yeah, I mean.

I'm a fan.

But he cited AI generated music right, AI slop right. And so basically what UMG started pushing is what they call artists centric model, where it's basically, in order to get any kind of payment from a streaming platform, you'd have to pass a certain kind of threshold of monthly listeners, right, and a certain number of listeners listening to your music, right, and so like if you only get nine hundred and

Yeah.

So you know, AI in this case is being.

Used as a kind of pretext in order to like restructure the way in which streaming economies work.

I don't like that though.

Well, you know, the music industry, in the podcast industry is not sounded so different. I don't know who wrote the letter for podcasting this year, but take away some of the microphones. Not ours, but some other people. We've gotten a lot from you to think about, and it's really got our brains going.

We are lovers of music, like.

Zakia, and our friendship has introduced me to a lot of music. Now I'm trying to think of somebody you put me onto I can think as a win and it's actually relevant right now too. Our homegirl, Rachel Lizzy. She just got roasted on the internet for not liking Anita Baker. But you know, when I first met you, you didn't know the difference between Nita Baker and Josephine Baker. I said, do you want to hear some Anita Baker? And she said, is that the lady with the bananas?

I love her. Bake me up, I love it. She is just chefs kissed.

She is on every playlist that I have that to get me in the right mood.

And so I'm very grateful to z A Kia for that.

And we're very thankful to you, Professor Drot, for explaining all of this because t T we really didn't know what was going on. No, we just knew that we were team Kendrick and that was but now we know that it might be a little bit deeper than rap.

So yeah, it's good to know.

All this talk about music is making me think about my favorite songs right now, tit. You know, I always want to know what you're listening to, go ahead and give it to me what you're feeling right now? Okay, So honestly, it's the entire Chromacopeia album by Tyler the creator.

H Lyrically, it's just perfect.

I feel like the way that Tyler raps and the things that he raps about speaks directly to me. There's so many good one liners. I feel like I quote him on a daily basis. So, Yes, that is the music that makes me happy currently. I like it. I like it and pretty much everything by boss Man Dilo.

Yeah, what about j Zee? What are you liking right now?

I think right now I am in I'm definitely in my love Girl era. Okay, So I've been listening to all the R and B and I liked this artist a while back. When we were in New Orleans for Suspith, we saw Ombre and there's a song Ambre has that's called Superstitious. I just saw her live recently at City Wannery and she sang it in like it's been my jam. So Superstitious and all kinds of other stuff, and bre Dustin Conrad Fabo Destin Conrad, a sleeper, Oh my goodness.

Super sleeper.

Also Leon Thomas, Leon Thomas. There's more than just mut I know y'all are using this Instagram. There's more than being used a lot. There's more than mud. Yes is a very good song though. Okay, so we've talked about our favorite music, but we want to know y'all's favorite music. Make sure you send us a message, a comment, a DM letting us know what you're listening to right now