Hey, y'all, we're back.
Did you miss us, because we missed you. It feels so good to be back with our friends. Tt I know, right, the show really didn't stop for us. We kept talking, but our mics were off.
Now, some people would say that's a good thing, mainly my mom, but.
Most of y'all have been in our dms and commenting on our Instagram posts, asking when the show is coming back, where we are, what's going on?
Yeah, it really has been too long, So first let's catch you up with what's been going on with us.
We've been traveling a lot, a lot, a lot, Cris crossing this globe, Australia, South Africa, Scotland, Switzerland.
You've been going everywhere.
I've been in Atlanta, I've been in the Atlanta Metro and if you've been on two eighty five, you know it feels like Chris crossing the globe. But we've also been working a lot, right, Yes, we have so many things that we're still working on right.
A planetarium film that's gonna come out in the fall. We can't wait to tell y'all about that.
Oh my gosh, y'all are gonna love it. I can't wait.
I've been doing more filmmaking, so that's been a lot of fun.
If you don't follow Zakia on Instagram, you have to. Her cinematography skills are a one. The storytelling is just chef's kiss.
I'm doing my best. I'm doing my best. And not to bury the lead, but Titi had a baby oo cherl.
Yes, I had a baby, y'all, tyson, a little boy. He's wonderful. But that was crazy. Can you believe they let me leave the hospital with a baby?
Man? That is still shaking me to the core. That's crazy. I know.
I'm still healing from that, and we're.
Still healing collectively from missing y'all. Like that's been a real big thing for us.
Yes, and it feels like we're the drama. I mean I think we're the drama because it feels like, is it ghosting force?
Ghosting force ghosting me? So kind of Yes and no, But our heart was in the right place. We just had to get our stuff together. We had to, you know, come back with a new step to how did that song go? We shouldn't have left you without a alia, but we were thinking about everybody the whole way along, you know.
Yeah, and with y'all in our minds while we were away. You know, this is all set and making us sound like f boys now like like future, very toxic behavior.
Okay, now listen, I never am one to align myself with future, but I do think the upside of this is like that part where they say, you know, absence makes the heart grow fonder. But is that true? And who is they? I hate when somebody say they say, you know, they say, I don't know who they is, but I'm hoping it's true in this case. Okay, yes, I hope so too. I don't want our relationships to be damaged.
Exactly, and relationships can be so complicated and time is a thief.
Funny, there are some people whose absence actually made them dead to me, so yes, rip rih rest in hades. And I know we sound terrible, but we're not the only ones who are trying to figure out all this relationship stuff. Okay, we're gonna talk about that today. I'm TT and I'm Zachiah, and this is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. Let's jump into the recitation.
Okay, so what do we know about relationships? Well, we know that relationships can be complicated, and we know that being with someone takes work. We also know that every relationship is different, so.
What works for some won't work for all. But there are some foundational things that probably most healthy relationships have, you know, or they're built on, like honesty and Okay, so what do we want to know? M like, on the most basic, basic level, what is love? Because I feel like the term love is being so overused and we have certainly lost the plot.
Yes, reality TV has really messed with our minds, like everybody's in love on these TV shows where they're with the people, they fill a house with twenty people, and that everybody's falling in love on day two. I don't feel like that's right.
No, And if you find yourself running across the beach to separate the love of your life from whatever they got going on under those sheets, that's not love, baby, It's not love.
It can't be. If it is, I don't want it. So what I want to know, Like, I want to go through the life cycle of a relationship and find out what is happening to our minds and bodies as we are going through these relationships.
Yes, because love is not just in the heart. Okay, the brain is doing things. The body is doing things. And speaking of the brain doing things, some folks are refusing to date someone who hasn't been to therapy. Is that a cheat code or a no? No?
That's a very good question. I want to know what are some of the breadcrumbs that let you know this is no good or you're on the right track.
Mm, that's I like that. Guide me to the right way, don't don't make me go all the way to the end. If there's something I can see a longess, mays, I like to take a clue. Similarly, what makes a relationship last? And how do our feelings grow and change with time? And how is that tied to, like chemically, what's happening in our brains? Or is there something we need to be doing?
And sometimes it's how do you make a relationship last? But it might also be when do you walk away?
I think we have lots of questions, so let's jump into the dissection.
Our guest today is poet and relationship expert Young Pueblo. If you haven't seen him on social media, you actually have your friends follow him, and if you don't follow him, you have absolutely come across his work. Young Pueblo's book is out and it's called How to Love Better, and we got an advanced copy, and let me tell y'all, it is good, very very good.
Young Welcome to the show.
Thank you both so much. I'm excited to be here.
Our first question is a very baseline question, just to get everybody, you know, in the right mind frame. There have been neuroscientists that say that love is a biological necessity and we need it for our well being, like we need water, and like we need food and exercise. But we want to know what is your definition of love?
Oh that's interesting. I love hearing that connotation because immediately it made me think about love coming from community, coming from friendship, or coming from partnership. Because it is essential, but it comes in a lot of different forms. I think to me, love is something that you not only feel profoundly internally, but it motivates you and like activates your wanting to learn how to care for a person.
And I think it's quite the contrast to a lot of the love that we're seeing everywhere for consumption, you know, fact one of the things that we're often talking about. It's just how much we see love in just like reality TV or notions of love, and how that might be coloring our perception. So we know that more than like three million people are tuned into every episode of The Bachelor, it's like most recent season. Why when we look at those couples that come from these shows, not
very many are going the distance. You know, even the Golden Bachelor at his big age struggled. Okay, we'll say struggled. And so I'm curious, do you think we've sensationalized love as a society. Do you think these shows are useful when we start thinking about how we think about love.
Yeah, I mean the shows are useful in that they're fun to watch, but they're not like what we should be striving for or learning from necessarily. I think. You know, for a lot of us, especially those of us that grew up watching TV in the seventies, eighties, nineties, and early two thousands, we were fed a very specific idea
of relationships that really affected our conditioning. You know, this idea of like you meet someone, you feel very strongly for them, you have one struggle, and you overcome that struggle and then you're together happily ever after, And that is just completely untrue. When you're in a relationship, you're basically doubling down on your own personal growth and understanding that just the way that you have ups and downs as an individual, you're going to have ups and downs in a relationship.
We live in a time where everything can happen in an instant. You need groceries, it'll be at your door in thirty minutes, food ten seconds to drive to the next window, need a ride, a lift will be at your door in two minutes.
And all this convenience is really messing with our brains in that same instant gratification at all times, and that just isn't realistic when you're dealing with your partner. And that's right.
If you have a disagreement, it may not be resolved instantly.
All these things are geared towards speed, and you know these quick dopamine hits, but like in reality, what is life like? It takes time to build something beautiful and that's hard.
I love that you talk about dopamine because we did a lot of research on the neuroscience about what happens when we're first.
Following in Love Andruck.
All of that, and it's because our brain's reward system, which is located in the middle of our brains, is activated, and this even shows up in fMRIs. So they did a study where they showed folks pictures of people that they love, their romantic partners, and two key areas of the brain lit up like a Christmas tree. And those areas of the brain release hormones like oxytocin and adrenaline,
and that gives you your euphoric feeling. And then you also talked about dopamine, which is also released and it's another feel good hormone. You talk about your relationship with your wife as an example in the book. Throughout the book, Can you talk us through what it felt like for you and at the very beginning and how it changed when things got tough.
I think in the very very beginning it almost felt ethereal in like the magnetic pull that we felt towards each other, and it felt so enlivening that I was finally speaking to someone where I didn't necessarily have to put my guard up and was just like, wasn't performing, was just you know, able to be myself. But then that opened up. Honestly, what felt like six years of being together on and off that felt like a hurricane because we just did not know how to care for each.
Other, something that we've both talked about in a previous episode where we talk about platonic reallyfelationships, but also when romantic relationships, when you have that high, as soon as anything happens, you have a bad feeling. I'm curious, how have you and your wife settled into your version of compassionate love and do you think there are things we should all be aware of, like in this stage to keep your relationship healthy and compassionate.
Yeah, it's interesting I think what we've sort of settled into because in the beginning it was sort of the chaos of not knowing how to care for each other combined with the craving for perfection wanted the relationship to
be exciting and fun all of the time. And now what we have it's just this deep understanding that that there are going to be ups and downs and that we don't need to fight those ups and downs, and if anything, what we need to do is we need to just properly inform each other about how we feel so that the other person knows that it's time to step up and support you if you're feeling down or whatnot.
With all of those good hormones that we get, we also get some of the not so great hormones that raise our anxiety and stress, like cortisol, and when those go up, we have higher stress levels, just like you were talking about in anxiety, and you describ being able to just talk to your partner about that anxiety is such a great step in the compassion that you feel
for one another. You talk about that a lot in your book, and there was a really amazing quote that we both loved, and you said, a relationship is not an escape. It is a deep form of arrival, one where if you want to succeed, you'll have to face yourself with great honesty and give your partner a high level of presence so you can keep feeding the connection the two of you have. Can you talk more about that presence and what that means and how people can show up for one another.
Yeah, it's really interesting. I've been really thinking lately about the connection between the presence that you're able to give another person and how that's really coming from the presence that you're able to give yourself as you're moving through your wide spectrum of emotions. So very often, like if
we're feeling good, we enjoy feeling good. But if we're not feeling good, we run and we either run into our phone, run into another TV show, you know, just doing something to distract ourselves from feeling whatever's happening inside. I used to be so afraid of my own anxiety, so afraid of my own sadness that you know, I was just like I was on a mission to run
away from whenever I would feel those things. But now as I've been able to sort of just you know, have that resilience, that strength to just feel those emotions.
I think it's really interesting taking your work and kind of using it to I don't know how you feel about this, but I almost want to say using it as a shield against some of the things that we are consuming all the time. You know. I feel like I don't know if this is what I was clicking on or how my algorithm changed, but I feel like I was getting a lot of things in the algorithm that say, like, if your partner does this, they're a narcissist.
If your partner doesn't do these things, you know, it was a lot of outward facing about the other person.
We talk a lot about self awareness and self work, and I think so often we have this mindset of, like you said, convenience and shopping for the perfect partner and what quality should they have and they need to bring this to the table and I'm popping the balloon if they're not six feet and just all of these things right, And I would love for you to talk a little bit more about how self work feeds into a healthy relationship.
Oh, it's everything. I think. You know, when people look at like, you know, what's a real good green flag? And I think probably the biggest, most important one as they have the humility to keep growing as an individual. Because when you show up to a relationship like, no
one shows up perfect. Everyone has past pain, like something they went through, whether they experienced trauma or not, something heavy happened, There was some sort of loss, some sort of hurt, and that impacts your present moment Like that is not only impacting your perception, but it's also impacting how you react to the moment. So understanding that you're both going to have things that you work through together and as individuals, I think that just increases the possibility
for success in a relationship. Life is hard, and if you choose not to grow, life is even harder.
Remember when we talked about attachment styles on the episode with doctor Franco.
Yes, that's when I realized, I'm so like Sious.
I know you from the DMV. Just like guy.
He would be so proud, hometown hero.
That's right.
As you say in your book, attachment is the enemy of love.
Yeah, the type of attachment that I'm talking about is the old school attachment is like what the Buddha referred to as one of the causes of misery, and we're talking about like, when I think of attachment, it's attachment towards things existing in a very particular way, like the craving for things to exist in a very particular way
that makes human beings very rigid. And if you have those attachments in your mind, they will manifest through your actions as control where you want these people in your life to exist and think and act in very certain ways, and you never want the good things to go away, and you're just basically clinging to the things that you like and very intensely pushing away the things that you
don't like. And I think living like that makes life really hard because we're living in this giant river that's moving forward, and if you fight that, life is going to hurt. Life is going to suck, Like it's going to be really, really tough. So instead of fighting the change, our only option is to embrace change and work with it.
What I can control. I do my best to have presents in the good moments, Like, for example, I just got to spend a beautiful time celebrating my father's birthday yesterday,
and I was so grateful. I'm like, Okay, I'm so happy to be there, But I also know that, like he's not going to be around for the rest of my life forever, you know, Like so that makes it's simultaneously sad, but it also is inspiring me to have more presence when I'm with him, and to hug him more and to tell him that I love him, because like, change is going to happen at some point and you know, one of us won't be around and I can't necessarily fight that, but that does help me better show up
in the moment.
But talking about how things come to an end, you know, with romantic relationships breaking up, as we know is a very hard thing, and it can really we feel like a freight train is coming towards you, and you can feel a lot of anxiety around that. Folks describe breakups with having headaches and feeling a crushing sensation and a pain, like an actual physical pain that can last a little bit or a long time. How do we know when it's time to break up?
Yeah, I think I love that you're pointing out too, tt like how big breakups are, and like, I think we don't often realize how much they shape our minds. Like those big, big breakups, they really affect our mental conditioning, and they affect how we see the present, like we'll look at it through the lens of the past. I think in terms of like signs of when it's time to break up, I think probably the clearest one is relationships. It's natural for them to go through ups and downs.
But let's say you're in a relationship and you're just going from one down moment to another down moment to another down moment, and there's very little joy, there's constant struggle, there's you know, sort of like endless arguments, and you're not even really having fun anymore. You're just kind of irritable and it's in the back of your mind and you just don't want to be honest with it. Yet. What I like to write about too, is like, when
you know, don't let it drag on. I've seen this happen with people often, where you know they know they want to break up with somebody, but it still takes them like six months to get it done. And that's hard because you're misusing that person's time and you're misusing your own time. So I think being aware, like if you're constantly moving from down moment to down moment, then there's something for you to assess, like are you really right for each other.
I do have a question from a friend because I told her, I said, hey, we're interviewing young Poiblo, and I had already given her clarity and connection and so she said, cool, Why wouldn't you have told me this earlier on? I said, because you would have given me twenty questions and so that's not a possibility. You know. One of the things that we've wanted from you is
some tips on getting over a breakup. And so I have a friend that's going through a really big breakup, but divorce and She told me that she really wanted to know how you still believe in love and if it gets harder or easier the older you get and the more you have these experiences.
Yeah, it's hard to especially, I mean so much love to your friend too, because that's that's a big one when people go through the divorces, and that can like really shake the framework of your mind and how you see the world. And I see this a lot, you know, like when I post things about relationships and people commented, well, there's no there's no good men out there. Well, yeah,
I mean some. I'm sure some of the ones that you came across were not good, but like, there definitely are, Like I know a bunch of great guys who are in good relationships and are healthy relationships.
And drop their names in the chat.
Yeah, here are their numbers. Yeah, this is where they live. I think love is definitely possible. I think, especially when you're like coming out of a divorce, this is one of those moments where it's a big realization moment that you should not be postponing your happiness, Like your greatest happiness is not necessarily going to like come from a relationship your partner. They should add to your happiness, but your happiness is really coming from within.
You preach a quarter though, that is a word.
And I think it's it's challenging because like people want to lose hope for love, but I think it's definitely possible. But I don't think that you should be waiting for love to be happy. I feel like that's a big mistake. It's especially if you're just coming out a divorce, Like, this is the time for you to design your life. This is the time for you to like make the most beautiful chapter of your life happen. This is your renaissance.
This is like your rebirth moments. So use it, make best use of it, because then that inner glow, like as you cultivated and as you keep seeing, like what is it like, how can I be a better friend to myself? What do I need to give to myself so that I can really shine? Other people are gonna feel that, and then the right person may come along who also has that similar quality that they take good care of themselves, and then you can make something beautiful together.
But no matter what phase of life you're in, you should never be postponing your happiness. You should try to cultivate that happiness now and then maybe somebody great will come along.
At the end of your book, you run through some red flags and some green flags, and so we wanted to just throw some scenarios at you and hear whether or not you feel like it's a red flag or a green flag, or you can give it a yellow flag if you feel like it's not either or kid you want to kick it off.
Okay, I think and this is something I've seen happen for real. I don't know if you remember, like the conversation where people say, oh, when you go into somebody's house, like what are you looking for on their bookshelf or something like that. Now, sometimes you see great things. You can see all about love. You might see clarity and connection. You might see all your favorites. Okay, but when you open it up, there's nothing highlighted, there's no notes, it's fresh,
it's crisp. When they are aesthetics only did they read it or are they doing it for the GRAM? We don't know. Red flag, green flag, yellow flag.
You know it's so funny because you two are vicious readers, like you're both PhDs, and you know I know that you know how to crush bugs. I think the other thing too, is like you want to like check to see where I have a stack of books that are my favorites that I've read and other ones that are waiting that are like on deck. So there's that clarity
you want to kind of develop. So to me, it's like a yellow flag if everything is just like kind of like designed and picture perfect and you don't really like are they there to help cultivate your mind? But I think I would ask, like I always lean towards asking, like tell me more like which ones which which one of these books has really shaped your mind?
And why pop quiz baby?
We're going to have a book club right now. Something that I've seen on social media where people have done all these think pieces. It on TikTok and Instagram, and some folks say, if I am going on a date with somebody, I'm going to ask them if they have ever gone to therapy and if they say no, that's a deal breaker for me. Is someone never having gone to therapy or not having a desire to go to therapy at all a red flag?
A yellow flag? Green flag?
I would say, like almost like yellow green, you know, it's like It's not necessarily a red flag like that, because even you can go to therapy and what if you get one of those therapists is just like, oh, you're fine, you know, it's the other person's fault and listen, Like, not all therapists are going to be great. There's definitely some great ones. I've seen therapists change people's lives for
the better in my circle. So I'm very supportive of therapy, but you got to make sure you work with someone who's not just a yes person. And the other end of that is some of the dopest people that are so self aware that I know are like painters and artists and like people who are always in nature and like that's just the way that they reflect and they
heal themselves. So if they have some sort of practice that, you know, whether it's like meditating or art or where they're just like not scared to reflect on themselves, then to me, that's a big green flag.
These are fun, okay, And this is also I have my own thoughts about this, so I can't wait to hear. Yeah, they tell their friends all about y'all's relationship. What color flag are you giving that.
One all about? Is too much. What do you mean, like everything, everything, everything? Oh, I don't know. Then, No, I think something's you know, it's funny because after you've been with somebody for so long, you know, you start feeling like like there are things that go down in not just like in our relationship, but like, let's say something really private that happens to one of our siblings or something that I know that they want people to not hear, and I think, out of respect, you kind
of just keep it in the tightest circle. And my best friends like they're similar to that. We tell each other a lot, and it might be ninety five percent like a lot because there's so much trust there. But I don't think it's everything, you know, So I think that would be like a very heavy orange. Yeah.
I can get behind that. Yeah, same.
Okay, So in arguments, when they're arguing with their partner, they kind of shut down, but it's because they need to take time to go think and then come back later. So you know, the partner may want to keep talking or keep the argument going, but they're like I've had enough. They remove themselves, but they come back later to finish it.
Yeah. I think that's honestly a green flag that is not respected enough, and I also didn't. Our argument styles were different between my wife and I, where I was like always trying to just like keep it going, let's finish, let's get over it as fast as possible, and she needed to move more slowly through it, and honestly she was right, Like, I think part of the power of the pause is you're trying to figure out like am I just being defensive? Am I just trying to win?
Or am I actually trying to help resolve this situation? And usually the pause kind of makes you snap out of your own like irate mentality.
I love that the power of the pause and not the pause.
Okay, here's the next one we have. I feel like people sometimes you see people that are in a relationship and it feels like one person is putting the other person on a pedestal and they're saying like, Oh, I just don't deserve him, or oh she's so great, I don't deserve her. People that feel like they don't deserve the other person. Now, sometimes that's just you know, fluff, But people that really feel like they don't deserve the other person. What kind of flag we have going on there?
I think that's strange too. Honestly, I'm with you too, Like I feel like one thing that I love love about my really close friends and my wife is that they're not that impressed by me. They're not like they're
like whatever. He says some smart stuff, and he says some dumb stuff too, and I think that's just like the best thing is like having a circle that just keeps it real with you and they honor you when it's time to honor you, Like, I think there's some some lack of I don't know worth in there, and as opposed to having that framework, I think it's better to be like, I'm just so grateful to be with this person. This person is dope. You know, they're amazing, and but you're both equally amazing.
There was a man who was like basically told me I had my life two together for.
Us to pursue anything.
And I was like, like me, I was a mess. I was in graduate school. I was like, I'm a mess. He's like, oh, you're so smart, and you know you have I don't think that this would work. And I was like, first of all, you're jumping the gun because I wasn't going to be your girlfriend. Just having a good time. So yeah, I totally, I totally understand what you're saying. There's something that gen Z says a lot,
but I want to know your thoughts. They say that if someone double texts you, like sends two text messages back to back, that that's a red flag. Like that's they're like, oh, that person is I don't even know the right word that they use. From our generation, they would say that person is thirsty or you know, they're doing too much.
I think I'm really careful with those like those. That's a big, big, like blanket statement that just doesn't work in all contexts. I think some people just like, I don't know, I'm I'm usually if when I text you, I'll send like three or four blue lines, like you know, it's not just like one text. It's like I'll just send out whatever I'm thinking, and I just I don't know.
I feel like one thing that I really don't like about current dating culture is that everyone is being COI right, everyone is kind of like hiding their cars and they're just like, I don't want to you know, I don't want to tell you that I like you because I'm afraid. But it's like you know it's time for clarity. It's time for clarity. Just like if I'm really feeling you, I need to tell you that I'm feeling you so that we can see if something can happen.
My friend always says, play it cool. Have you left out in the cold? Oh? Right, I need you to be thirsty, honey, I need you to get parched for me. Okay, I don't need you playing coy. I want you to be triple tech.
Right. And TT and I have spent a lot of time together over the years, Okay, and I feel like at the end of the night, TT will say like, oh, this person definitely liked you, and I'm like, baby, they didn't say a word. They didn't. I'm not reading your hand signal, the degree you turned your shoulders to the side. I'm not reading any of that stuff. And in text messages, I'm not trying to read between you sent one line.
First of all, I don't even like big blocks of text, So I'm sending you four to five messages.
Damn, We're sending voice notes, we're sending video over sending memes, we're sending links, so I.
Can't identify the voice notes. Have added a whole nother element. Like I feel like I'm listening to my friends like mini podcasts. I have to like find a moment to listen to like a four minute voice voice.
No, okay, So I think this is our last one.
And it is that.
A person hasn't ever been in a long term relationship, like more than three months.
I don't know, I would say that's like green to yellow, Like I don't think that's that wild per se. I feel like a lot of that is cultural. People are just so like anti commitment, and I think a lot of it is because people are looking for marginal improvements.
Right.
It's like you're with someone and then you want the relationship to be like two percent better, so you let go something great. You literally will let go something great for the chance that's something better, and it just doesn't always work out. So people are constantly, like you know, in these I don't know, like six week situationships, they're dating someone for a little bit and then they don't even have enough time to really build a full relationship.
So I don't know if that's necessarily the individual's problem. And a lot of people just like I don't know, they don't they don't want the nonsense. They like, want someone who's serious and they want commitments, so they're they're fine with holding out because they're really fulfilled in and of themselves. And it's just like if someone's dope and they really want to commit, they're ready for that. But other than that, they don't want to play games.
That's a complete different perspective. I think when people look and they're like, oh, that means they're afraid of commitment. No, maybe they aren't afraid of commitment and they just know that they don't want to be committed to that person.
Yeah, yes, yeah, I definitely wouldn't write someone off for that. If anything, I would be intrigued. I would be like, what's going on here? How are you that strong? Like, what's.
Before you leave the lab? We need your benediction, your parting shot. You know, is there a message you think we all need to hear?
Yeah. I really feel like a foundational piece of the art of arguing. Like when you're having an argument with your partner one, you're not trying to win, You're trying to understand. And that is big because we get so quickly defensive in an argument and both people are trying to dominate the narrative, both people are trying to sort
of dominate like who's right and who's wrong. Granted, there will probably be times where someone definitely needs to apologize, but usually there's a backstory something happened, and if you really care for your partner, and you remind yourself like, this is not my enemy, this is like the person that I love, my roommate, and let's take turns listening to each other selflessly. It's just like this Buddhist monk tiknat Hans said, love is understanding, and that quote is
so true. So it's not about winning in arguments. You just you know, you're trying to understand how things happen, and when you really understand each other, the tension just fizzles out and you're like, oh, I see what's happening.
Yes, I really loved this episode as our first episode back because relationships platonic or romantic can be complicated, and I feel like we have a lot of tools now that we need to continue our healthy relationship with our friends. We talked about the power of the pause, right Zie, and our pause was a little long, and I think that us coming back to the relationship, we're even stronger now you know. I don't know if absence made the heart grow fonder with y'all, but it definitely did for us.
If it made it grow fonder, drop us a heart. We want to see it, We want to feel the love.
Yes, show us you love us, we made you. We're sorry. Okay, Yes, we're standing outside your windows with a boombox.
You can find Young Pueblo on Instagram at y u n G Underscore Pueblo.
You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope Lab Podcast.
Tt Is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore t s.
H O, and you can find Zakiya at Z said So.
Dope Labs is a production of Lemonada Media.
Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate producer is Issara Savez.
Dope Labs is sound designed, edited and mixed by James farber Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvill. Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Labs is executive produced by us T T Show, Dia and Zakiah Wattley.
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