Lab 055: Don't Get Hacked

T T.

I know, we already did an episode about scammers, The Art of the Con.

Yes, we talked about what happened at Firefast. Firefast feels like it was forever ago and yesterday.

Right, But you know what, I think it's gone all digital. Between inventing Anna, the tender swindler, that couple that was stealing bitcoin from people.

People are getting advanced in their scamming technology.

Yes, I've got to build up my digital fortress because it's looking grim out here. Yes, I've been getting so much digital spam that is actually scamming on the back end, like links that say track your package here, even if I haven't purchased any ash that has.

Been going around a lot. I've gotten text messages that are like track your UPS package, which I might have a UPS package on the way, and so you're tempted to click it. But there's what is it?

Scamware, spyware, ransomware, phishing attacks.

I don't know any of those words.

You remember when everybody was getting emails about those gift cards and people.

Were buying them.

People were buying gift cards and was not the gift.

Yeah, just out of control.

I'm TT and I'm Zakiyah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science, pop culture, and a healthy dose friendship.

This week, we're talking all about cybersecurity.

And with everything that's going on in Russia and Ukraine right now, there's been a lot of talks about a possible cyber attack.

We really wanted to know more about how people's online data is collected and used, what happens during a cyber attack, and what we can do to stay safe. Ready for the recitation, Yes, let's get into the resitation.

So what do we know?

Well? I know that we are always online, whether it be for work or social media. Every time my phone tells me how long I've been, like the amount of screen time I've had, and I go and check the details, I'm like, hm, hmm. I spent a lot of time on TikTok and Instagram, And sometimes I'm ashamed because it'll be like, you were on there today for nine hours. How is that possible? When I work eight hours.

That's nobody's business, all right, that's the first.

Thing, that's my business, that's my visiness.

We also know that there have been some pretty big cybersecurity breaches in the news. You remember the Colonial pipeline attack. You know, it's one thing to feel like it's the matrix and people are moving the zeros and ones and they're green and moving down the screen.

But the gas.

Honestly, like, how is gas even involved with this? Those types of things just go way over my head because every time I think of cyber attack, I just think digital stuff.

What isn't it in the cloud? That gas is real?

And right now with everything that's going on, all the tensions because Russia is invading Ukraine, the US banks are preparing for a potential retaliatory cyber attack from Russia.

In the topic of cybersecurity, we're seeing that blow up. Even in entertainment. So I already mentioned inventing Anna, and we talked about Tender Swindler, but there's also the Matrix, So the old one and the reboot and Enemy of the State.

Too, Yes?

Is that the one with Will Smith?

Yes?

Yes? So what do we want to know?

I want to know what's being collected? What are y'all taking off of my phone in my computer?

What are you doing with it?

Why do you want it?

Yes?

First and foremost, why I am very born. You want to see all these silly pet videos? I don't know why.

And then what's legal versus what's illegal? What are people allowed to do with our information? Whatever they're collecting? My question is what is rants?

Where? Here are a lot of things like ransomware, spyware? Where? Where? Where is all the stuff coming?

Where isn't the where? Yeah?

I don't understand any of it, and so I just want like clear definitions for all of this stuff.

Yeah, and like you said, who wants our stuff? Are we the common people? Are we the targets of these types of cyber attacks? Or are they like high value assets like on mission impossible? Is it for the common people?

Right? Because I feel like there's not enough money in my bank account for y'all to want to hack it.

Yeah, I don't understand. But if I am a target just in case, what do I need to do to be safe?

You know?

Because Norton isn't out here anymore?

No, I have Norton on myself.

Nobody's here to save me. So what do I need to do?

That's just out of how old we are.

That's all right, I'm okay with that.

Let's jump into the dissection.

Our guest for today's lap is Christina Morillo.

My name is Christina Marillo. I am based out of New York City. I am in information security and technology practitioner with about two decades of combined experience and everything from enterprise technology, information security, cloud.

Christina recently published a book called ninety seven Things Every Information Security Professional Should Know, and it's a practical guide from a variety of information security experts.

So we ask Christina, what exactly is cybersecurity?

Cybersecurity is pretty much the practice of protecting systems, networks, and programs from digital attacks. It's like the equivalent of an intruder coming into your home and taking your stuff right or accessing or touching your stuff.

I can't imagine somebody coming to my house and just touching stuff. Oh that just seems gross.

That makes me feel sick, even when I think about stuff that I'm looking at on my phone, things that I'm saving. Like, I know, I share a lot of links, but I don't want everybody all up in my stuff. And I don't know about it exactly exactly. I don't know about you, but I keep a lot of tabs in bookmarks. What would you do if you lost all of that, I.

Wouldn't even know where to begin. I think a problem that I have now is that because I use my phone and my finger on my computer to enter my passwords, I don't remember my passwords anymore. I don't feel like I have to. But I know it's important because if all that stuff was wiped away, I would still need to have access to all of my things, yes, like my email and everything that requires a password, right, So I would feel some type of way.

And so all of this, you know, quote unquote stuff, numbers, passwords, all of these things, and also like browsing behavior and what we like and don't like. It's really hard to understand what's legally collected versus, you know, what's illegally collected. So let's start with the legal collection of our stuff on the Internet.

The reason why data is collected in the first place is to help answer like everyday questions, right, evaluate outcomes, and also make predictions about trends. So all of our data is valuable.

So this changes how we've been thinking about it. T t Absolutely, people want to know when we see a page, what we clicked on, why we clicked on it, to help them understand what's useful.

Yeah, like if you come to this website, what are most people clicking on? So that it gives like a lot of people information like what's most popular? What are people interested in? Christina likes to think about data in four categories. The first is personal data.

That's like any personally identifiable information like social security numbers or your gender, even your IP address, your device ID. Right, like stuff that can be tied back to you as a human, as an individual.

And in addition to personal data, there's also engagement data.

So that's how customers interact with the business. So that could be like social media apps, texts, navigating to different websites. Right, everyone is now aware of the cookie pop up that comes up, which is super annoying.

We see this all the time on websites. But what exactly are cookies?

Cookies are pretty much little software programs that retain information. As an example, they retain maybe your pre di for instance, if you like your website icons to be larger when you visit CNN dot com, if you always search for a specific topic, you know, if you have favorites listed on the site for any reason. Also, you're signing your logging information This is like little pieces of software that are downloaded onto your computer to retain your history.

The cookie pop up is something that depending I might just say, fine, whatever, just accept, but sometimes I take this time. I'm like, no, just only collect what is necessary or whatever it says, like I switch all those things off. But I think my default is just like except.

No manage my settings. One trust. I want those things all off. I only want the bare minimum that they need.

They're taking advantage of the impatient folks. I'm like, move this thing out the way, let me see this toothpaste.

Then there's like behavioral data, So that's transactional information, so your purchase history, usage. You know, when you swipe that credit card, you swipe that debit card, all of that information is being stored the credit card to you. There is the time, the location the store all of that information.

And last is attitudinal data.

That's more about consumer satisfaction. So that's like looking at criteria to purchase an item or a service.

That's a lot of different kinds of data. I think previously I would have thought it was all just one thing. So we've hit personal data, engagement data, behavioral data, and then attitudinal data.

Yeah, I think most people just think it's your passwords. Yeah, that's all they're selling.

And so all of these things can be legally collected. But where does it all go? That's my question?

Yeah, and how are companies using that data?

So once you have all of this information, all of this information is like dumped into the terabytes and petabytes on hard drives and databases.

Right from there, the data is organized into large data sets. Then the companies hire data scientists to develop software to analyze the data sets, and from this they can use the data to discover patterns and make p dictions.

So they take all this data and then they can say, okay, well we can predict that. You know, I don't know the twenty twenty one Nissan is going to sell more than any other vehicle in twenty twenty two.

So okay, if there's a lot of engagement around a big collection or something that comes out, people can't predict. This is going to make a big splash. People are going to spend a lot of money here. People are clicking here, there's this much interest. Maybe companies adjust once they see how people are responding to things they put out.

Right, Yeah, and I can see how that can be valuable to a business. You want to know where to put your marketing dollars. So you're like, if I know that everybody wants this twenty twenty one Nissan, I'm going to put my marketing dollars behind that twenty twenty one Nissan and not another car, because then it just be wasting money. Or if I am, I'm just going to like put more here and a little bit less there.

That makes a lot of sense. And this really highlights what Christina told us is the motivation behind collecting this data in the first place.

At the end of the day, though, it truly about getting us to buy more or use more of something.

So, just like you said, TT companies are using this for marketing. They're trying to create specific targeted marketing campaigns.

It's getting us to use more social media, getting us to buy more at Target. Right, Like, for example, when you go to Target and you go in to buy soap, but you coincidentally walk out with like four hundred dollars worth of stuff that you didn't really need. It's not by coincidence.

Right. There have been so many times where I have online shop and I'm like, I just need a plane white blouse and next thing, I know, my car is filled with fourteen items and I've got to figure out what is going on and how did those items get in there. I know I put them there, but it just feels like everything is being put in front of me in a very specific way that makes me want to purchase.

Do you know how on some of the sites, it'll say, Okay, you're looking at this white blouse, and other shoppers who looked at this also looked at this tan belt with this gold detail. Yes, I want that with my white glass.

You know, they also like I'm like, oh no, you know I also like.

This, yes, And so all of that, I guess is behavioral and attitudinal data that is being collected to inform my shopping, to make me continue to shop. I'm reinforcing the algorithm because you know, I'm adding it to my cart.

Always, always, always. All of this feels a little bit creepy, but.

It is legal and it is working. It is right.

I wanted to see that, and I think that's the strangest part. Do you remember TT when we went to we were in New York.

Yes, I know this story, and we.

Were shopping and I was really torn on these pink Adidas. They were what Stella McCartney, Yes, I think they might have been Stella McCartney. And they had this really interesting gum soul that was pinkish reddish, but it was really giving me all the vibes I needed. And we stood there and I was like, Oh, I just bought an orange Stella McCartney hat.

Instead.

We left and that shoe showed up everywhere. Yeah, and any chance there was for me to get an ad it showed up.

It also showed up for me. Yeah, I got Instagram ads about that specific shoe, which let us know that even like where you're standing within a store, Like some of these businesses have worked with companies that let them track where you're standing, how long you're standing there.

Bluetooth Wi Fi all even if you don't connect, you still have device IDs, right, and that's your personal information. And so this divitation kids, we know it likes this type of stuff, Hugh.

And it's all legal.

Yes, it's all of these statistics, and it's all around the data science and the psychology around it. It's usually coordinated by like different demographics, right, it could be based on age, sex, location, how much you make if you've gotten your education.

And some companies don't just use data for their own marketing purposes, they also package and sell the data to different companies and organizations. Christina points to Facebook as one example.

They collect a bunch of information, including attitude and on data. Right, they know of you're feeding, side, depressed, lonely, and they're able to then serve up content that matches your mood, your demographic, how much money you make, what you like, et cetera.

Et cetera.

I'm not a big Facebook user, but I can say on Instagram, yes, if something is happening and I like one of those you know, text posts, and I'm like, hmm, if wait and see, or if I can show you better and I can tell you was a person when I'm feeling spicy, and I like that. It serves me up more content just like that, even if I'm not following people exactly.

Look at your explore page. Your explore page is curated based off of the posts that you like, and my explore page does not look like your Explore page.

Right.

As a kid, yes, mine is all cooking videos, sassy quotes, and.

Animals.

Mine is like eyebrow babies acting silly I don't even know travel blog stuff.

And now Instagram also has suggested posts in the feed, so they're constantly giving us content so that we'll say yes, I like it, no I don't. They're just trying to learn what we like and don't like.

The more they learn about you, the better they can serve you. Now, because Facebook collects all of this data, that makes them extremely valuable. Because now if I'm another corporation, let's say I'm Colgate and I want to sell you more toothpaste, I need to know how you tick, why you shop, how you feel a certain way, how I can market to you as the consumer or to your demographic. And so I would go to a company like Facebook and I would say, Okay, can I buy this data set?

Zakia, you say this all the time.

Yes, if you're not paying for it, you're on the shelf, baby.

Okay, nothing in this life is free. You paying somehow.

We don't pay for Twitter, we don't pay for Facebook, we don't pay for Google, we don't pay anything. What we pay with is our data.

We don't pay cash, but we pay an information about who we are, what we believe, what we're interested in, what we will buy. All of those things, inform companies and help them make money off of our clicks, off what we choose to share. All of those things are just embedded into the process. You can feel kind of helpless, right because if you don't choose to let this information

Yes, Oh my gosh, that was a wild time. I completely forgot about that.

It was like everybody was sending emails at the same time. I'm about what they would and would not collect and all of this stuff. And that wasn't even tied to the United States.

Right. In May twenty eighteen, the General Data Protection Regulation or GDPR was put into effect. And this is an Internet privacy and security law passed by the European Union. But since the Internet is global and most websites process data from EU citizens. It pretty much affected the entire Internet, and.

So what did that mean for our privacy? As users of these websites.

People basically own their data. They have a right to delete their data, to collect their data, to request that a company delete their data. So because of that, there has been a lot of legislation around privacy and more discussions around privacy and security. So now companies have to tell us that they're collecting and what they're collecting. It's a great win for privacy. It's a terrible hit to useability. It makes experience terrible because people rarely know what they're

Yes, it slows down the process where you're going from site to site.

Yeah, Like I said, if I'm in a rush, I'm just hitting accept because I just need to get to what I'm looking for. And I'm like, I don't have time for this. Yes, except the cookies. I love cookies, It's perfect. I prefer chocolate chill and so I just click accept and keep it moving. You know.

Another option is to use Duck Duck Go. That's a browser that limits what can be collected about your browsing activity.

My mom actually put me onto Duck duck Go.

Really mm hmyh VICKI you want it.

I use a browser called Duck Duck Go. I use it when I want to go navigate something and I don't want to be trapped or I don't want any potential malicious by whear or anything to be installed.

I think this helps us get a really solid understanding of what all the various types of data are, how it's being used by companies. I mean, it seems like it's being used in aggregate, you know, so in groups to understand trends and behavior and what people like. And all this stuff is legal. But we're going to take a break and when we come back, we're going to

We're back and we've been talking to expert Christina Morillo about data privacy and how to have more control over the data that's shared with companies online.

Next week, we're talking about organ transplants. We'll explore the science behind donor matching with our guest expert, doctor Dave Low from Thermo Fisher. Turns out it's a lot more complicated than just matching blood types.

Now let's get back to the lab.

So, now that we know our data is being tracked and analyzed all the time, are there protections in place to keep our personal inform?

Say?

Yes, I understand that what I click on and what you click on and all of our device IDs, all that stuff is supposed to be analyzed in bulk in groups, functionally making it anonymous. But is anonymized data a real thing and is it actually keeping our information safe?

We ask Christina, Well, what it's opposed to mean is that any information that is collected is stripped of any personally identifiable information. If you're collecting my data, right, if you're collecting my information, that means that you're going to strip my social Security number, You're going to strip my location data, any information that can be tied back to me as a person, you're stripping it. And that's what that means by anonymized, So you're only collecting information that

Yes, I don't want my data in the breach.

Yes, but it always seems like everybody's data is in the breach. It always just blows my mind. There'll be a security breach and I'm just like, but I literally have never even used this before, So how is my information there?

Yes?

And what exactly is the breach? Wikipedia defines a data breach as the intentional or unintentional release of secure or private confidential information. But it feels wrong, right, It's not secure. If somebody accessed it and it was released, it's not secure. It's no longer private. Yeah, it definitely wasn't secure enough.

It's just like you know those diaries we used to have when we were kids and had those bowlocks, and we thought everybody's secure, but all you had to do is just pull it and it would just pop right open. That's what these companies are using to protect our data. That's what it feels like. Them little pink locks ain't doing nothing. And you know, it feels like these things are happening more and more. So.

There was recently a report reviewing the data breaches in the first six months of twenty nineteen, and that report showed that there were thirty eight hundred publicly disclosed data breaches. And do you want to know how many records were compromised?

I feel sick already.

Four point one billion.

We're gonna link this in the show notes billion with a B with a B baby.

Oh my gosh, it's everybody.

And just to give you a sense of magnitude, three point two billion of that four point one billion, three point two billion of those records were exposed by just eight breaches. Somebody has too much access.

That is crazy. Only eight breaches and you got three point two billion of those records.

And the actual type of data that was exposed. It had email addresses that was in seventy percent of the data and passwords that was also in sixty five percent of those breaches.

So we in trouble.

We in big trouble.

Yeah.

And so when we think about these data breaches. We know that's not from a company wanting to know whether I like a red top or a white top, right exactly. This is something that's a little more malicious and is illegal.

We all know that data is valuable, especially for companies who use data to inform their business strategies, and if it's not properly protected, then there's a risk for a cyber attack, such as a security breach or a ransomware attack. But we wanted to know more about ransomware and the people behind them.

Cyber criminals. They basically want access to your bank accounts, money, right, or something of value that then they can sell on the dark web. It's malicious software and the sole purpose of it is to encrypt, which is lock rate, to encrypt your files.

It's always about the money. It's always about what can be sold. Cash rules everything around me. Yes, dollar dollar bill, y'all. And it just seems that in the new digital age, ransomware is the method.

So in mainencrypt your entire seed drive, so every file you have on your computer is locked, right. Sometimes it'll have a nice little lock Sometimes you'll see some kind of like logo on your screen that says you've been ransomed.

Some of these things. You feel like it's obvious, like I shouldn't click on this because you click on a website and these things just start popping up and flash, and it's like, if you click here, you get a million dollars in a trip to Aruba. And you know, random text messages from unknown numbers that have weird links.

Everybody in your contacts. And this was happening not just on Facebook. You know, I used to dabble in Facebook. I don't anymore, but this was happening on other platforms, and people would say, oh, that wasn't me. If you get a message from me, don't click the link, you know, stuff like that.

Yeah, I got an Instagram DM from I'm a friend that was saying knockoff Guji bags. You can get a knockoff Gucci bag for twenty dollars. So I text him and say, hey, you need to change your bat's word.

Yes, because you're selling Gucci bags.

I don't know if you know.

And it happens in this world of convenience where FedEx is saying click here to check your tracking link, or somebody else is saying, hey, want to see the latest sales styles, or one in on this great travel deal, and links are everywhere, emails, text messages, and everybody's using these little shorthand bitley and all this stuff. All it takes is one click, and it's so easy to do if you let your guard down just a little bit.

So you click on a link it takes you to a bad website that downloads malicious software, or you click on an attachment via email that has malicious code attached to it, which downloads that bad software onto your computer and then does its thing, which is locking off your files.

What I would need to know is something like this happened to me, is how do I get my things back? I would like my things back? So after a cyber attack, how do you get out of it?

Like?

How do you loose yourself from the grips of these people who are attacking your software?

Pay the ransom right, which is risky because the criminal or the attacker can decide not to provide the key. They can decide, oh, you know, I got your money, sucker, and I'm not going to give you back your data, right, Or they can say, ah, you paid me, I don't know one hundred and fifty million dollars, and so here here's a key, and here's access to your data. Maybe maybe not. You never know. There's no guarantee, right, it

I don't have one hundred and fifty million dollars.

I don't either, do you have a no?

Okay, that's what I didn't want to listen, But now you know we don't got it.

You know how I live, and you know I do not have a one hundred and fifty million dollars. I didn't want one hundred fifty thousand either, okay.

And I think the other thing is if I had to live off my last backup, I might as well start over.

Yeah, just give me a brand new everything. Right before my qualifying example, I had to write a portion of my dissertation and I lost the whole thing because my hard drive crash. I had an external hart drive, that thing broke and I basically had to start all over again. And that's when I started using the cloud. Yes, but now even the cloud ain't safe because we've seen celebrities clouds get hacked and you know, some of their racy photos make it out to the common mess ye, And

Cyber awareness is pretty much kind of like the education piece of that, right, So it's like, what do we need to do to protect these systems? What do we need to do to protect our networks, our software applications? What does that look like in real life?

And it's all about taking these small steps every day to start building that awareness around our data to know what's important, what you should be protecting. Things that don't feel important to you may be useful to someone else.

Mm hmm.

Think about it like you're protecting yourself when you come home at night, you lock your doors, right, just kind of taking those small steps where make sure your passwords and your accounts, your bank accounts are secure.

Christina gave us some really good advice. You know, don't share your password.

But another thing is that you shouldn't use the same password for everything. Now this, I know lots of people have a Problemly, you know, you got a different password for everything. How are you supposed to remember what it is for each thing. Some things do have like a multi factor authentication. I love that me too. They'll send you a text message or an email that says, hey, here's this code. Put it in so that we can verify that it's you and not somebody else that's trying to log into.

Just press yes, push it directly to my device. Christina also told us not to play sketchy games.

Yeah, like those websites that let you play blackjack and stuff like that.

Right, because some of those games are actually tied to bank account information. So it's different if you're just accumulating coins that are not real. But once you start tying bank info, that feels a little dangerous. I know this is gonna be hard for you friend, Yes, you know, I like that.

And the last thing was don't give out personal information like your address on social media because once it's online, it's there forever. You might delete the tweet, delete the Instagram post, those pixels exist in perpetuity for all time. Yeah, so you have to be really, really careful about what you're putting out on the internet.

All this is telling me is that we must remain diligent when we are using these devices. Just think about how easy it is to just zone out online or on social media and just click click, mindleusly scrolling.

I have fallen asleep scrolling on Instagram to have almost purchase something. I was like, why does it only take three taps to purchase something?

It's so easy to almost retweet a thing around ust click a link, and we could really compromise something in our personal and because we're all working from home now professional too.

In our personal and professional lives, we're spending.

A lot more time on the internet at home, so we're feeling a little bit more relaxed, a little bit more comfortable, so a lot more susceptible.

As employees, we basically have a professional responsibility to keep the security and privacy of our company and customer data. So whether it's our information or employer's information, we need to make sure that we are doing the best and everything that we can to ensure security. And also companies have also a responsibility to provide that cyber security awareness, right, talk about Hey, this is what we value. If you're on your work computer, please refrain from using it for

And like you said, you're also more relaxed when you're working from home. It's easy to click on stuff when I'm in my pajama pants.

Absolutely, I got my bondet on my at home glasses.

M different glasses for at home.

Yeah, you know, it really depends on what in the security community we like to call your threat model.

That sounds scary.

Threat modeling sounds like now we're really in a spy movie. Threat modeling is a process that identifies security vulnerabilities and countermeasures to manage risks.

Who are you, what do you do for work, and what are you trying to protect. If you're a diplomat, what you need to protect is a little bit different than let's say a mom or just a banker, a teller. So it really depends on who you are and what the risks are of you being attacked.

Listen, I may not be a diplomat, but that doesn't mean I want people going all through my cookies and I don't want my data to be up for grabs. That's right, and Christina says one of the best ways to protect your data is just to make sure you have a backup.

Have a backup.

Always have a backup of your information, right, same as when you have your credit cards in your life, you should always like have a copy or something or at least know what you have in your wallet so that if your wallet gets laws, you can call in cancel.

Right.

Okay, So we have to back up everything on every device. For a lot of us, that means our computers, our phones, and any other device that we use every day. For companies, that could end up being a lot of data that needs to be backed up, depending on how many employees they have.

They need to have a backup of their environment, have a backup of their valuable data, their secret saws, their customer information, whatever it is that makes a business run or that allows a business to run, they should have a backup. Unfortunately, many companies and many individuals do not have a backup. So what that means is that if they do get ransomed and their files are locked or encrypted, then they cannot recover.

This has been eye opening for me. I feel like I have a lot of apps I need to delete, I have a lot of practices I need to change same, and a lot of passwords that must get updated right away.

I'm really just going to take the time and go through each thing and change my password. It's time. It's time. It absolutely is time. And I think that the advice that we got from Christina was really really important, and I think that everybody should be trying to do that so that we can, you know, fend off these attackers.

Yeah, you know, she said, the Internet is like the deep sea or deep space, where we only know a very small percentage of it. And let me tell you something. I don't want to beat the dark web, Okay. I want to stay right here in this galaxy, the lights web. Yes, I want to step into the light Caroline, Okay, and I do not want my information all out there in those streets.

We just have to stay alert, and we have to say vigilant to keep ourselves and our companies or just personal information safe as safe as possible.

All Right, it's time for one thing. What's your one thing this week?

Ze, I hope my one thing is our thing. Yes, this is an event called Dope Labs Unplugged and it's with the Boston Museum of Science on Thursday, April fourteenth. Guess what, It's free ninety nine. So all you have to do is register and you can join us in person in Boston April fourteenth at seven pm. We're going to have a live show. Come get these laughs and these facts in person.

We want to see y'all faces. Come.

That's it for Lab fifty five. I hope that after listening to this episode, you're gonna do something a little bit different. Maybe change those settings on your phone. Call us at two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight and tell us what you thought, or give us an idea for a lab you think we should do this semester. We like hearing from you, so call us. That's at two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight and don't forget that there's so much more

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs Podcast.

And TT's on Twitter and Instagram at d R Underscore T s h O.

And you can find Zakia on Twitter and Instagram at z said So. Dope Labs is a Spotify original production from Mega Ownmedia Group. Our producers are Jenny Ratlickmast and Lydia Smith of Wavebrunner Studios. Our associate producer from Mega Ohmedia is Brianna Garrett. Editing in sound design by Rob Smerciak.

Mixing by Hannes Brown.

Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugu from Spotify Creative producers Candice Manriquez Wren and Corin Gilliard. Special thanks to Shirley ramos Yasmin of Fifi, camu Elolia, Till krat Key and Brian.

Marquis, executive producers from Mega OH Media Group, r us T T Show Dia and Zakiah Wattley