Lab 049: The Habit Equation

Do you think folks are sticking with their New Year's resolutions or have they dropped them already?

No, at this point, absolutely not.

I think most people were committed January first through fourth, and then we saw great drop off.

Then.

Yeah, all the commercials that have been trying to rope you into all these different things, whether it be gym memberships or managing your money properly or whatever. It seems like those commercials have stopped because maybe y'all have fell off those habits.

I don't know.

I just know for me and my house, good habits are hard to come by. Okay, Yeah, new habits are hard to come by.

Yes.

It always feels like it takes a significant amount of activation energy to start.

A new habit.

Yes, not just to start it, but especially for it to solidify and to stick around.

It feels like it takes almost all your energy.

Sometimes I have to sit down the other things I was already doing so I can focus on the new thing I want to do.

I think the only habit that I've been able to maintain is ordering off door dash.

That's it.

Were you trying to pick that habit up?

No, it just happened over the pandemic.

It just happened.

I'm t T and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science, pop culture, and a healthy dosa friendship. For our last installment of our new year series, we're talking all about habits.

And when we look back. We learned quite a few things over the past few weeks. Yeah, like with.

Sleep and how important it is. I've learned that I might.

Sleep a little bit too much, which I didn't think was.

Possible before talking to doctor Jean Louis. We also learned about vitamins and how I probably need to be just eating better.

I know.

I learned a lot about our immune system and how it works and how it kicks itself in the gear to keep us healthy.

There are some things that I might need to pick up, but there's some stuff I'm like, it just is what it is.

I hope you're picking up going to bed, because it sounds like you really need to get some sleep. Friends, But I guess, no matter where you fall on this spectrum of oh, I want to pick up these new habits or change the way I'm doing things, how you create new habits or ditch the bad ones is really really important.

Yes, the good news is we're going to talk all about it today.

Perfect timing.

Let's get into the recitation. So what do we know?

Well, habits are like the Konami code or shortcuts of self improvement. There are like those hot keys on your computer that let you move everything off the desktop to help you get directly to the action.

Yeah, command, shift, see or whatever.

I know that forming new habits, good habits can be really really hard.

But you know what's easy though? What forming bad habits?

Oh? Yeah, I've got plenty of those.

Plenty, I got plenty effortless okay.

It takes no energy at all. So what do we want to know?

I want to know why it's so hard to form the good habits, right, What is the barrier there?

Yeah?

I want to know what's going on in our brains when we are in the process of trying to form a new habit. Is there something neurologically that makes it easy for some habits and harder for other habits to stick?

Is there a social component, you know, like the buddy system They say, like, oh, if you're doing something to have a friend do it with you?

What is the heck? Is there a hack to habit?

Give us the life hack.

Yes, TikTok has not shown me that I've searched every corner of TikTok, I've not found it. And even when I say TikTok, I mean TikTok on Instagram, you mean.

TikTok on reels. All right, let's jump into the dissection.

Our guest for today's lab is the author of Good Habits, Bad Habits, Doctor Wendy Wood.

My name is Wendy Wood, and I'm a behavioral scientist. I study habits and mostly why they're so difficult to change. I'm on the faculty at the University of Southern California.

Before we even get to defining a habit tity, I already know what they're going to try to tell us.

They're going to try and say, it's twenty one days to make a habit.

I think we've all heard it.

We've heard it, We've seen it everywhere. But guess what they're wrong.

Doctor Wood's already told us that you guys are taking this weight out of context.

It was a popular book in the nineteen sixties that was written by a surgeon explaining how long it takes people to get used to a new face or a new image after plastic surgery. So it didn't have anything to do with habits.

Okay, so we know we all have habits, but what exactly makes a habit repetition?

Every time you repeat a behavior, your mind is processing it in part of your brain which stores habit memories. It connects where you are and what behavior you're repeating that gets some reward that makes you feel good, and that enjoyment is really important for repeating a behavior, and it could be just feeling pride. It's just a good feeling that you have when you do the behavior.

So when we repeat behaviors that feel good, we're forming these mental associations so that in the right context, that habit is automatically activated.

So it's like standing in front of your bathroom sink in the morning. The habit that's activated for most of us is brushing our teeth, and we do it without thinking a whole lot. Am I gonna do it today? Do I want to? How do I do it? You don't have to ask those questions because you have a habit. You just repeat what you've done before.

Habits allow us to go on autopilot for certain tasks, like brushing your teeth or making coffee.

What's your morning habit that you're just on autopilot for.

Oh, it's probably a bad habit that I need to break, which is first things. First, I'm checking my phone. I don't even realize it, and I'll realize, Oh, I've been scrolling on my phone for five minutes since I woke up. I need to stand up and get my day started. But then right after that, it's got to the bathroom, brush my teeth.

What about you.

I reach around for my phone and as I'm standing up, I'm unlocking it. I'm usually seeing if my Apple Watch is dead or dead or alive, dead or alive. And then I'm calling my dad as I'm walking to make coffee in the kitchen.

I want to incorporate your dad into my morning routine.

Who you think you want that dose of energy in the morning.

Hey, I won't need a cup of coffee.

So making coffee is easy for me. I like doing it. It makes me feel good.

But the problem is when it comes to those behaviors that are harder to do, like t t Remember that time I tried to be shy and quiet. No matter how hard I tried, or I tried to commit to it, I just kept falling off.

Uh huh, she couldn't do it. Why was that lasted for two minutes?

I could do it for two minutes.

So we experience will power. It's exerting self control. It's a bit of a struggle. It takes effort, and the challenge with willpower is this. Let's say you decide I'm not gonna snack anymore in the afternoon. I'm gonna just quit that. As soon as you start saying that, you start thinking, Okay, what am I missing? What am I

Yes, there was a time when I decided that I wasn't going to drink soda anymore, in particular the soda that has the tightest grip on me is Coca cola. And that's because I don't want my teeth falling out of my mouth. I can't afford veneers. I don't want to have to go to Columbia to get them. So I was like, Okay, let me get back on the Coca cola. And then all of a sudden, I felt like I saw Coca Cola ads everywhere. I felt like everyone around me was drinking Coca cola. It felt like

I could barely think. Every day.

All I did was focus on not drinking co cola, which made me want to drink Coca cola even more. So I just said, okay, well, maybe I'll drink it with a straw to try and avoid my teeth.

It doesn't work that way, but it's okay.

Are you putting the straw directly into your side.

It's really hard to use willpower effectively to control habits. Willpower just doesn't last as long as your habit's going to.

So doctor would explain that while we all know what it feels like to try to use willpower, we're actually less familiar with our habits.

Habits proceed in a way that isn't accessible to conscious awareness. We can't just sort of look at the habit and decide what it is. We don't have access to that.

According to doctor Wood, the habit system works kind of independently from our conscious awareness of our behaviors.

It works through experience.

So you can tell yourself, I want a new habit, I'm going to make a decision, But that doesn't do anything to habit memory. That's your conscious self. Habit memory is somewhat separate from that and has a different logic to it. Habit memory is so simple that all mammals have learned through habit. It's how your dog learns, it's how whales learn, it's how cows learn. So you have to keep in mind how basic it must be for all of those animals to be able to learn in a similar way.

So we're basically all Pavlov's dogs.

Maybe this is why I've yet to be able to teach my dog Daisy a trick, because I'd be like sit and she won't do it, and I'm like, all right, girl, just eat the treat.

It's fine.

Well, even if you can't teach Daisy a trick, are you able to at least teach yourself a drink? What happened with the coke?

Yes?

So I ended up replacing Coca Cola with sparkling water. But I had to go through kind of like a trial and error process where I was testing out different brands, different flavors, until I finally arrived at a brand and flavor that could scratch my Coca Cola itch. And I was like, oh, this is just as good as having a coke. And I haven't had coke in months, well, at this point the year, a year, I probably had

I remember when you could remember?

You remember when I was feeding?

Yes, your having those coke. She was there.

She was there with me, shooting in the gym.

That's exactly what you should do when you can. Another behavior that is a direct substitute can be a way of maybe not changing the habit, but adapting it to meet the goals that you have right now. So you're kind of building on that habit memory that you have, and instead of reaching for coke, you just get a can of flavored water.

So you wanted to get rid of coke altogether, and what you really did is kind of adapt or replace with something else. So that makes me think about how our brain really can form quote unquote good and bad habits, Like is one easier?

Is there a difference?

There isn't much. They really do function very much the same. What's different is whether they meet your goals right now. I bet when TD started drinking coke, it woke you up, it gives you a little bit of a sugar lift, it tastes good. So all of those things are rewards. But once you start doing it all the time, it's really not good for you. So it was a good habit maybe when you started. That doesn't mean it's a good habit several months later or a year later. And

You know, one of the things that me and my friends Kia love is skincare. And so I was trying to have a new skincare routine, and I said, every single morning and night, I'm gonna use this acid on my face. And I made it into a habit where in the morning I would wash my face, I would put this acid on, and then I'll put on sunscreen because that's what she's supposed to do.

Then at night I would do the same thing.

I would wash my face, I would put on this bahaaj one of these ah's, and then put on a moisturizer. After doing that for maybe like a week and a half, my skin was so sensitive. I feel like I removed a protective layer on my skin where I was just like wow, everything that I put onto my face was burning. Things that aren't supposed to burn were burning. And so I was like, Okay, this is a little bit too much. Then I need to back off the acid.

Yes, I think you really have to find the right cadence for stuff. Similarly, and I know you've seen it. As much as making coffee is a routine for me in the morning, I really enjoy it. I like the way it tastes. I also like the process of preparing the beverage. And sometimes when I'm really stressing, I need to get another cup of coffee. And it's not even that I need the caffeine, because baby, once I have a couple of cups, I'm typed to like a bad

And making the coffee in the morning. I can have multiple cups.

But I also am not terrorizing you and Ginny and Lydia, our producers on the back end. Right in our meetings, we all can't understand each other.

I don't send so many links.

It's working out, and I think it's important to not really think of anyone habit.

As objectively good or bad.

Mm hmm.

I think the question is does it work for me right now, right now, for who I want to be? Does the frequency you know it still may be working for you, but maybe you don't need.

Twice several times a day.

Yes, maybe every other day tt maybe that's okay.

To meet the goals that I have.

Yes, those are the adjustments that I need to make.

You see those things that float online, they're like every day you should this, this, and this, and they're like habit trackers. But maybe sometimes the habit is once out of every seven okay.

Especially when a new year comes around, or for some people it's their birthday, where you just feel like, Okay, this is where I'm going to get my fresh start, and this is what I'm gonna do. Sometimes you got to think about the long game. If this is a lifestyle change for you, like, okay, I want to be a more avid reader.

If you burn.

Yourself out in the first month because you read sixty books and you can't even remember what most of the books were about, and then.

You kill your joy of reading, then.

It's not gonna last very long. But if you say, okay, I'm just gonna try and do one book a month, and then maybe next year I'll do two books a monk, or maybe after six months of doing one book a month, I can up it to two or three whatever feels good. But to get you to your goal, of being a more avid reader.

So let's take a break.

When we come back, we're gonna talk all about how to actually form habits that stick.

We're back and we're talking all about habits, the good, the bad, and the ugly with doctor Wendy Wood. Before we dive back into the dissection, Zakia, what are we talking about next week?

Okay, so the Winter Olympics start this weekend in Beijing, and just because there won't be fans, that doesn't mean we aren't excited for figure skating, ski jumping, and Bob's ledding. So next week we're talking with doctor Sophia Nipheus and she's gonna tell us how athletes are harnessing the power of physics to perform all of our favorite winter sports.

Okay, let's get back into the dissection. So we want to know what are the steps to form a habit? How do we do it? Doctor Woods says there are three main parts repetition, rewards, and context.

Let's start with repetition. We said it earlier, so it's not too surprising. Habits are repeated behaviors and we don't really think too much about them, so it makes sense that repetition is the first step in the process of forming a habit.

The second part is rewards.

Rewards are really important for habit formation because we're just not going to repeat behaviors that aren't rewarding in some way. And I think that's a problem that people have when they try to change habits, is they think, let me do the thing that's best for me, regardless of whether they like it or not, regardless of whether it's easy or not. Let me choose the thing that would make me a or person without trying to work with themselves and figure out what they enjoy.

That makes sense to me that we're more likely to repeat behaviors that feel rewarding. And beyond the psychological there's also a biological reason why rewards are key for forming habits.

When you do something that feels good or that works for you in some way, your brain releases dopamine. And dopamine is that feel good chemical that we all know, but it does lots of things. And one of the things it does is it ties together all of the information and memory to form those habit connections, those streamlined decision making parts of the habit. Memory and dopamine works for about a second, so you can't promise yourself a

So long term rewards of a habit, like exercising or practicing a new instrument may not be enough to get us to commit to starting that habit. How can we make a habit more fun in the moment if the activity itself isn't intrinsically rewarding.

So I got myself an elliptical because I thought that would be most similar to running. But I couldn't use it because it's so boring. You have to stay in the same place and just do it the same thing over and over again. I thought it was awful until I figured out I can read trashy novels while I work out. I can watch stupid stuff on TV, but I never normally watch And once I figured that out, I love the elliptical.

You know, previously, when I thought about trying to create some habits, I was reading James Clear's book Atomic Habits, and a lot of what he said is very similar to what Doctor Wood explains in her book, which is the kind of daisy chain something good or something that's already rewarding with something that you probably don't want to do. So you tie these things together. And they both nailed this point, so you know, is gotta be legit mm hmm.

For sleeping right That doesn't work.

That's not a reward when I'm walking right then, I don't get a good night's sleep right away, but I do get an immediate reward of going to like my favorite little bakery. And so I'm putting those things close together, and I'm basically helping later me so that I can go to sweep.

I love that.

I think that's such a good idea and that's something that I'm definitely gonna start trying with some of the habits that I'm trying to form that I'm like, Nah, this ain't gonna.

This, ain't this ain't gonna work.

I kind of work.

One of the things that I've done in the past is that I bought a planner, and it's one of these planners that has space on each day where you can write in notes, you can plan your day out hour by hour, and so the reward is kind of hidden in that it helps me stay organized, and so I go into each day feeling like I know exactly what I have coming up, I know how my day is gonna be parsed out, and so that is a continual reward that you get from adding to this planner.

I know we talked about this in an earlier lab about you being a plan Patty, and maybe in the last minute, Larry, but I will say that I have picked up some of those habits from T T and so now I map a lot of things onto my calendar and I don't feel stressed out when people want to plan stuff ahead of time. I can say I know I'm gonna have time for it, Like I can block off time that's just creative time for me. Like I think that's one of the things that makes me

Yes.

The reward is the freedom.

Yet and for me sometimes the predictability, uh huh, to know what's coming up. You know something else that's a not so obvious reward for me.

Why data? I like the more information the better.

When I started saying I was a real cyclist, you remember that, and I was really.

Only riding for like ten minutes.

You are a cyclist.

The not so obvious reward that I always enjoyed was being able to see how far I went on those rides. I just love that and sharing it, and I would say, look, here's my ride today. Tt every time you always said good job. Maybe that was the reward.

Maybe that is all of these smart watches that folks have where you can link up with your friends and your friend can send you words of encouragement.

That could be the reward.

I think that's nice.

Even things that are difficult for some people can be rewarding. If you can figure out something that works for you to make the behavior fun, that's what's important.

All right.

So we've talked about repetition, and we've talked about rewards. The third part of habit forming is context.

Context is everything around you. So for brushing teeth, context is your bathroom sink and your toothbrush. For making coffee in the morning, it is your kitchen early in the morning and your coffee maker. Other people can be context too, And the reason why contexts are so important is because some make it easy to repeat a behavior and others make it more difficult. One of the things that makes things difficult is if they take a while wile time right.

That's really interesting because a lot of what I see on social media or just within our friend group, and maybe I'm just talking about myself, it is people using shame to try to help them stick to their habits. For example, you might need an accountability partner, so you might want someone who's going to say did you do X today or did you do why to shame.

You into doing those things that you said you wanted to do.

M It's hard sometimes because some of these habits, like exercising and better sleep aren't necessarily fun to do. We already talked about adding rewards while you're doing the habit, but is there something else we can do for these habits that are somewhat uncomfortable but will benefit us in the long run.

That is the challenge. Most of us live in environments where the behaviors that are more fun, like intrinsically fun to us are not the ones that are best for health than well being. We're all captured by cell phones and social media. It's so easy to fall into these patterns. So part of changing your habits is knowing how to control your environment in a way that will make it easier.

One of the things I've been wanting to do and I found that I enjoyed. You know, I'm working from home a lot, and I don't know about you, but I have been all into my leggings and sweatshirts and hoodies. I have a Hampton sweatshirt that I have worn NonStop. I want to start getting dressed more at home, and something that makes it a lot easier is to put my outfit out the night before, so it's not something

So one habit that I had when I was in undergrad because you know them eight am classes come at you fast.

And I struggle with just getting out of bed.

So what I started doing was putting my alarm clock across the room, so when the alarm would go off, I would have to stand up, I'd have to walk over, and my feet had to touch those cold tiles. I'm having to move my body, so my body's waking up to turn off my alarm clock and that wakes me up. So including that level of friction to get me up out of the bed definitely reinforced a better habit for me.

So friction is a concept in physics, right T T.

Absolutely, friction is when you have an object that's moving in a specific direction and it's the forces that are operating against that object that caused the friction.

So friction is controlling how EASi or hard it is to get something done. If there's something that you don't want to do, you add obstacles that's creating friction. If it's something you want to do, you remove the friction. So I'll take my own example, I want to get dressed every day. Some of the obstacles are figuring out what I'm gonna put on. If I remove that friction

Yes.

And then with my example, I'm adding friction by putting my alarm clock across the room so that I have to get up to turn it off.

So the idea is, if you're trying to move away from a habit add some friction, so it's not easy to do. If you're trying to move towards something, remove the obstacles, remove the friction so it's easier to do. Doctor would explain to us that our environment can also affect our level of self control and how adjusting that can help us with sticking to our habits. To help us understand, doctor Wood told us about an experiment to studies self control among children.

So most people know know about Walter Michelle's marshmallow experiment where he took four year olds and he put a marshmallow in front of them and told them sit there for fifteen minutes. You can eat it if you want to, but if you wait those fifteen minutes, then you get two marshmallows, and of course four year olds can't do this. And what they did was, it's so simple. They put a cake tin over the marshmallow and they said, you can lift up the tin and eat it anytime you

Yeah, this marshmallow experiment, I think that a version of it actually went viral on TikTok and Instagram all over social media where people were doing this with their children, where they would put their kids' favorite snack, these little candies or gummy bears or whatever, right in front of them and say, don't touch it.

I will be right back. And the experiment who.

Was to see how long your child would wait with the instruction that they weren't supposed to touch it until you got back, and that they could have it as soon as you got back.

And a lot of these kids didn't make it.

Some of the kids us some really unique tactics to be able to wait, so some of them would look away, some would close their eyes. And then it was Kylie Jenner's daughter Stormy that actually sang a song about being patient in order to help herself be patient as she was waiting for her mom to get back.

It was very, very cute.

All habits, they are difficult to change, and it's difficult to form new ones. And I think that's why people keep forming the same New Year's resolution over and over is they just haven't figured out the tricks. Because if I said to you, the way to form a new habit is to find something that's fun and make it easy, you'd be like, oh, yawn, that's nothing new. But there's good research behind why that works. And not self control

So, now that we know what it takes to make a habit repetition reward in context, even if you provide all those elements, are there some habits that are just easier than others.

Some habits are just more complicated than others. So going to the gym is much more complicated than switching out coke for water. And because it's more complicated, it has numbers of steps, there's more effort involved, it'll just take longer. Things that are more complicated just take longer to learn.

So it's not twenty one days, like we already discovered. But how long does it take to form a habit.

Well, you know that you've formed a habit when you're doing the thing automatically. It's like driving a car, right, So you get in the car, you drive somewhere, and you think, oh my god, how did I get here? I know I was paying attention to what happened on the road because I'm here, but I was thinking about something else. That's typical of habits. You can do them

A thing that was really interesting to me is that form of habits is not really high level brainwork. When doctor Wood basically likened it to training a dog, I was like, Wow, this makes me really sad about my previous attempt to form new habits. But it's really a simple equation and after a while, your brain will take over if you keep giving it that repetitive behavior and that additional context, and you reduce that friction and you

Ding ding ding ding thing. It's time for one thing.

What's your one thing?

Zee?

Well, my internet scouring has taken me into another corner of Twitter that I didn't really know about, but I am really enjoying it.

There.

I pulled up a chair and it's been exciting. I've been in geology and fossil Twitter.

Okay, and I get there.

I don't know and we'll talk about it later.

Anyway. Two fees that I'm really enjoying are.

Doctor Phoebe Cohen, that's at Phoebe fossil and doctor Katie's strength and that's at Paleokatie. She spells that p A l A E O k A t i E. And they have been sharing all of this fossil knowledge that I just did not know about.

I think somebody in.

Fossil Twitter shared a link to an article about a crab that was found and it has eyes, but the eyes are not on stalks. The eyes are big, and so they think this crab might have been a fully swimming kind of predator crab, not a crab that crawls along the ocean floor like we think about. I mean, it's just it's so much to learn, and the brain isn't fossilized. A lot of times the brain is fossilized,

But it's Black Girls in Trader Joe's. And I love this Instagram page because they show all the new items at Trader Joe's. It's a really great community. It's so much fun. I love reading the comments of people saying different things they've tried from Trader Joe's, some of their staples that you must try if you've never been to Trader Joe's. And they post really delicious looking food and the vibes are just right and it always makes me

That's it for Lab forty nine. Called up labs at two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight and tell t T and Zachiah what you thought or give them an idea for a lab they should do this semester. TT and Zakiya really love hearing from you. That's two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight, And don't forget there's so much more for you to dig into on the website. There will be a cheat sheet for today's lab, additional links and resources in the

Brown.

Original music composed and produced by Taka Yasuzala and Alex Sugiira from Spotify, Executive producer Gina Delvat and creative producer Candice Manriquez Wrin Special fas to Shirley Ramos, yesmin A Fifi, Keimu, Elolia, Teal Kracki and Brian Marquis. Executive producers from Mega Om Media Group are t t show Dia and Zakiah Wattley.

Do you remember when I was doing that thing and I was saying I am a cyclist when I wanted to get on my bike more?

Yes, I do remember.

This is what a cyclist would do.

Changed my whole personality, not personality, but it worked.

She was really out here. I remember when I called you on face time. My stabbed the screenshots of you with your bike, put an oil on the chain. What is going on over there? This is a real biker