Lab 028: There’s Something in the Water

If there's one thing that's happening is Corona's keeping us outside. That's where I feel safest.

Yeah, definitely taking more walks.

You've been bike riding, Oh man, I've been biking, like my life depends on it. Tour de France, Tour to four ninety five, I'm riding underneath it. Do you remember when people were talking about how the air quality was improven because everyone was staying home.

Oh my gosh. There were so many things that were coming out at the right at the beginning of quarantine that was like the air quality in la is the best it's ever been, or something like that, and I was like, oh my gosh, it's because no one is driving around. Everybody was at home, so the air quality was better.

And I was like, Yo, this is a wake up call. We're really out here just polluting all over the planet, honestly, and we don't even that was our day to day.

We didn't even think about it. We didn't.

And what it also showed us is that we can be doing better. When you know better, you do better. So now that we know what it takes, what you're gonna do?

Hey, how are you going to.

I'm t t and I'm Ziah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs. You know what, I've been noticing what every time we're go on a walk. So me and Jimmy we have like this this game that we play and we try and spot the rubber gloves or spot the mask on the ground. What's not on people? Because now that everybody is wearing gloves and masks, now we're seeing a lot of gloves and masks just on the

That's crazy.

We got coronavirus, but then we're also continuing to kill the planet.

And you know where those masks are going to end up. We know exactly where they're going, right into the ocean exactly. And that's today's topic. We're talking about the ocean and specifically how the ocean is connected to the health and vitality of our planet because as we all know, we could be doing better.

Like when you talk about like there was so many things that came out about how many microplastics that we're starting to find in the ocean and in the fish that we eat that are in the ocean and finding all these microplastics because we're not disposing of our plastic and our waists properly, Like we know these things already, and y'all are throwing your gloves and masks on the ground.

There's so much to consider when talking about climate change, So why are we only focusing on the ocean?

I feel like people when we talk about climent a change, Like people think about you know, emissions from our cars, like yeah, we want electric cars and things like that, and we think about recycling, reduce, reuse, recycle, but we don't talk about the ocean like really at all. Yeah, you know, sometimes it comes up and people are like, yeah, the ocean is important, like let's not forget, but then we forget about the ocean.

Yeah. It's like out of sight, out of.

Mind exactly because most of us don't live on the ocean, and so it's not something that we interact with every day. But we do interact with you know, trees, and we interact with our cars and things like that. So what we're doing with this lab today is bringing the ocean to you.

Let's get into the recitation.

So what do we know?

I know, the planet is seventy one percent water. But I feel like I learned a lot of stuff as a kid about the ocean, and I haven't really brought that stuff back to the.

Forefront of my mind.

Like, I know the ocean is all connected and it moves water, but I don't really know the significance of that why I should care about it.

I mean, I know I care, but I don't really know the details.

We know that the ocean affects all things, right, yeah, but in what way you know? I mean, we can't use the We can't cop out and say, oh, that's not our area of research, because it's.

Just like you live here exactly.

It's like, oh, this is my house, but I don't know nothing about the roof.

What, Yeah, you're gonna find out exactly. I think we should just start with that baseline assumption. Knowing that the Earth is over seventy percent water is enough for me to know that the ocean is important, and I should get down to some nitty gritties. It sounds like we're going to focus a lot on what we want.

To know, yes, because we don't know enough. And so one of the things that I want to know is how is the ocean affected by climate change. We know it is, Okay, I'm not saying that I don't know that it is. I'm saying, like, in what ways that you know we might be missing? Is it affected?

Help us see our blind spots?

Basically, yes, I want these blinders off.

I want to see the whole thing.

And if you know, people are always saying save the ocean, and if you save the ocean, you can save the Earth. I need you to draw a line between those dots. What exactly about saving the ocean helps me save the rest of the planet, right?

I want to know that.

And I want to know what are some of the misconceptions about the ocean, how it affects the world, the things that we can do. And I know that there are certain people that are disproportionately affected by climate change, and I would like to know how, why, and who those people are specifically.

That's a lot to think about. I think we're ready to jump into the dissection.

Our guest for today's lab is doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson.

My name is doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. I am a marine biologist and a climate policy nerd from Brooklyn, New York.

She is the goat and she's trying to be modest.

She's founder and CEO of Ocean Collective.

Ocean Collective is a consulting firm for conservation solutions that are grounded in social justice.

You can find doctor Johnson at the Nexus of all things science, policy and communication. She's always advocating for coastal communities and basically figuring out how to solve our climate crisis.

And we're gonna talk about those solutions in a bit, but first, let's talk about the ocean. How does the ocean work with the rest of the planet.

Let's hit some key points, right. I think you have to know these things to understand the gravity of why the ocean is so important. The scope of the ocean is huge.

You know.

We tend to think about what's happening right at the shore and we think, oh, look there's a huge wave. No sea waves in the ocean can move at hundreds of miles per hour.

And the ocean, because it's so vast, hasn't been explored as some other parts of our universe, like there are more extensive maps aps of Mars than our own ocean. So how does the ocean move? I think it's really useful to imagine the ocean as this huge pump, like this big physical pump that's just churning water all around

When we think about our climate system, it's the ocean actually plays a big role. It's not just the atmosphere. It's the interactions between the two.

You know.

One of the things that's easy to forget is that we don't have some unlimited source of water. The water that's on this planet is all we have, and it's just constantly being recycled. So the water that rains down on us has been in the ocean many times before

So the temperature of the water means a lot for the temperature of the air and the weather where you are.

The ocean has this amazing heat capacity, so it can absorb solar energy and then it can release it as heat, but it does that vary slowly. So the way I think about that is considering, you know, it's a hot it's a sunny, hot day, but when you get in the ocean.

The water is still cold.

Because the ocean has the ability to absorb way more heat than the atmosphere around it, right, and because it has that heat capacity, it doesn't rapidly heat up and rapidly drop in heat in temperature.

Imagine if the heat the ocean can heat up as fast as the atmosphere, like the air around us.

Oh, I don't want it. I don't want I.

Don't want to be boiled like that. You're gonna sou vid yourself. So then my next question is how are the oceans affected by climate change?

I'm so glad you asked, because most people don't think of the ocean as part of climate change, as part of the climate system.

So t t's just explained about these gyres. We now understand how the temperature of the ocean is super important, and this is all such a delicate balance for how our planet keeps us alive. Any interruption or imbalance or skew in one direction of this balance is a problem, and today we're just going to touch on a couple

The heat of the water actually drives a lot of different things. So you have this cold, dense, salty water that then sinks and it drives this sort of conveyor belt in the North Atlantic. But if the water doesn't get cold enough in northern Europe. Then it doesn't sink as fast and sort of the current this conveyor belt is slowing down.

When the ocean water gets warmer, it can cause a lot of problems.

If the water's really warm. My favorite climate scientist, doctor Tate Marvel at NASA, she describes a warm ocean as hurricane food.

The atmosphere is always holding water vapor, and that's just water in a gaseous state, but the atmosphere's ability to hold that vapor is related to temperature. Warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air can.

If you think about the summertime and how we only talk about humidity in the summer. That's because warm air has the ability to trap those water molecules, and that's what humidity is. That's water in the air. But in the winter time we don't talk about that because cold air does not do that.

And when you think about it that way, like you said, the warm air, when that ocean water is evaporating, it increases the temperature and humidity of the air around it. And that's how whenever they talk about hurricanes, they're always showing that you've never seen a hurricane generate overland.

It comes from the ocean over where we live.

Right hat this heat and more evaporation and stronger and wetter storms become even more dangerous, and that is also due to climate change.

The next thing to understand about climate change affecting the ocean is how it changes the ocean's chemistry. We've all heard that the warming temperature of the planet is caused by greenhouse gases, but those gases are also being absorbed by the ocean, and so.

We've actually changed the chemistry of seawater by burning all these fossil fuels, and that is bananas. The ocean is enormous, and we've changed the chemistry of the entire ocean.

The ocean is a carbon sink. That means a place where the carbon can just go to basically just go away, right if you think about it. The carbon regenerate from activities like driving and flying and even exhaling, all that carbon has to go somewhere, and so the ocean just takes all that excess carbon and through a variety of processes, it basically traps it in its depths.

But of course we've taken it too far. The Ocean Foundation says that we're exceeding the ocean's carbon sink capacity. So that's like if I let my friend borrow my car and I'm like, yeah, that's fine, you can go get groceries, and then I find out a week later they actually took a road trip across the country and now my car is broken down in California. That's too much.

I'm not that friend, by the way, that's a different friend, right. Yes, why you're trying to tell me something.

Well, we'll see.

And the thing is all this excess carbon that we're generating. That's not the only thing the ocean is absorbing. It's also absorbing heat.

And the ocean has also absorbed ninety percent of the heat that we've trapped. So the ocean is getting warmer. The sea water is, you know, a degree celsius or more warmer than it used to be in modern history. Warmer water holds less oxygen, and warmer water also stresses fish out, so they're like super stressed out and they can't get enough oxygen. And it's just a recipe for a disaster.

You know, when you get in the shower and you turn around in that hot water touches your back. Oof, that's what we're doing to the fish.

They are upset, just as upset as you'd be when you take that into account with like the heat capacity and how the ocean warms slowly.

Even if we stop what we're.

Doing right now, the ocean is going to continue to warm because of past things that we've done and because it has that heat capacity.

It's just slow. So don't be like, oh, it doesn't feel to.

Me exactly, because people will think a degree is not that big of a deal.

They must not live with anyone else. If you haven't fought over seventy four versus seventy five degrees in the house date, you don't understand.

I don't want to talk to you about the ocean exactly.

Living in the middle of DC, it is a swamp here that air needs to be cutting on.

And so these are all the ways that climate change is affecting the ocean.

So if we go back to the metaphor like, oh, you let your friend borrow your car. But I'm a good friend. So if I'm the ocean, I'm a good friend, and I'm like, hey, I understand like you had places you felt like you had to go, I'll let you borrow my car again. That's the way the ocean is treating us. They are such a good friend that even after misusing them and mistreating them, they still going to try and help us out.

There's all these ways the ocean's like out there trying to help us, and we just constantly ignore it.

And it's not just the ocean, you know, when we think about all the places we want to go and all the greenhouse gases we continue to generate, the ocean's doing this job. So are our rivers and streams and salt marshes and mangroves. All those things absorb way more carbon than like no shade to the trees, But then the trees do, okay. So all those areas, those water rich areas, they absorb more carbon.

And another thing that I think that no one really knows or thinks about, that we talked about with doctor Johnson. One of these things that is in the ocean that helps with purifying the water and keeping a record of history. Men's the kid's favorite late night treat.

Ah oysters, if you've been out with me and there are bi valves on the menu, you already have heard this feel, you know, I like the little ecological history along with my horse bradish and oysters. Yes, And like you said, they're great storytellers. Like, if there's anything that's going to get you motivated, the thing that you're eating, do you love that?

Well, what if it was no more?

And there's finally some oysters are getting more respect as far as their role in filtering water.

They are. They're really good, I.

Fink filtering access nutrients and pollution out of water. And I'm actually on the board of the Billion Oyster Project in New York City. They're trying to replant a billion oysters in New York Harbor by twenty thirty five and involve a million school students in the process. But you know, they can't swim away, and they're really easy to catch and catch them all, so we basically ate them all.

What people don't realize is that we're at an all time low for our oyster populations compared to the estimated levels in the early sixteen hundreds. We're at about one percent of the oyster population we used to have.

So it was like, we don't have any oysters. That's what it feels like, you're saying.

That's what I'm saying to you, friend. Oh, and this is why I didn't know it was so dire. And all this tells me is that you haven't been listening to me because I tell you this every time.

Okay, Well, I'll just be trying to eat and enjoy my cocktail and my oysters.

Oyster reefs can be an incredibly effective buffer from storms and waves because they just like they buffer that energy. They kind of like disperse all of that by creating all this friction that you know, breaks the power of the waves coming ashore. And so restoring oysters is actually a really important part of building resilience to climate change. So shout outs to oysters for being delicious and historical and saving us.

The oysters are physicists. They're providing a great barrier between the ocean and our coastline. It's like putting in a like a permeable brick wall where some water will get through, but it slows it down because they're taking the brunt of the forest. Yes, so they're standing there like no limit soldiers and getting whipped up by this ocean and they're like, that's fine, thank you, sir.

I have another man. I'm silk the Shaka oyster, which one of you.

Definitely master p Mayer say nanah, no nah.

Maybe I'll be Snoop Dogg when he was on no limit. If anybody mess with Snoop Doggie Dog, are.

Y'all gonna save the oysters or what?

We don't deserve them? We don't deserve these oysters. They deserve better.

How are we gonna fix this?

That's where my head is, that, like, how can we just make sure the ocean is a part of these solutions? And right now I'm really focused on how that would manifest in terms of policy change, And.

We're gonna talk more about those policy changes coming right after the break.

Now it's time to put on our myth busting hats and talk about some common misconceptions when it comes to the ocean and climate chain.

The first misconception is about who is the most concerned about our changing planet.

We are taught this myth that white people care more about nature, care more about climate. It's like the rugged, outdoorsy, wilderness Patagonia clad prius driving dudes who are like they're going to save the planet. And it's actually more likely that a Latina grandma in Arizona cares about the climate than a college student in Massachusetts. Like that's how the polling plays out.

And I've wondered, I'm like, is it the outdoorsy influencers that are making us think this? Is it the YouTube videos about camping that make you think the like, this is the profile of a person who cares.

Probably, I think that's I think it's all the marketing of all of these outdoors companies as well, where I mean, everybody in all of their ads are white, and they don't show that black and brown people are also doing

If you would have asked me a long time ago as a kid, was I an outdoors person?

I would say absolutely. I used to catch lightning bugs.

We used to go exploring in the woods and stuff, and my grandma would say, hey, back in the yard.

You know, we would go. Who would push it?

Me and all of my cousins, And I think as I got around high school, I was like, oh, I remember there was one episode of the Simpsons.

I know this sounds so crazy.

Do you remember this episode of the Simpsons where Lisa is like meeting up with this activist environmental group, this environmental activist group, and they're like in the tree, like they're in this tree so it doesn't get cut down. And I was like, no, this is an outdoors person. This is a person who cares about the planet. They were sandals and socks and they have a T shirts with a tree on it or the globe outs bark right, and you begin to think, this is what an outdoors

I actually have a friend that started a group called the Black Outdoors, and it just highlights so many people of color that are getting out hiking, traveling, and doing all of these really amazing things to help impact climate change and also show that people of color are also a part of that community.

I just went to the website. I'm all into it.

It's a shame that we aren't included in these conversations because I know Zakey and I we really enjoy being outside and hiking and biking and doing all these things like that me and my husband did one hundred and ten mile hike for our honeymoon. Honeymoon that don't the honey to me, parts of it was not. But yeah, these are things that we like to do. But you know,

Doctor Johnson told us about a recent study from Yale and George Mason Universities that highlights exactly that.

It's forty nine percent of white people are concerned about climate change, fifty seven percent of black people, and sixty nine percent of Latin X people. This is a survey from Yale and George Mason Universities. They've been tracking this stuff for over a decade.

Not only are people of color more concerned about the planet, but doctor Johnson says that they're also more likely to get involved.

And there's also sort of double the likelihood of wanting to get involved in campaigns to solve these problems. And there's and and people of color are half as likely to be climate deniers.

And the next myth is about who is most affected by climate change. Too many people are thinking of this as a far away problem in these other countries really affecting this all.

In the US in particular, we've had many people have enough resources and protection that they're buffered from the worst of the impacts. And journalism had for a long time been telling this story about climate change is something that is going to affect like poor brown people in other countries, whereas like, we know it's hitting here. It's the floods in the Midwest, the record floods, it's the record fires in California. It's the record storms in the Southeast. It's

And I think we've seen that as part of the behavior in the US, like if something isn't affecting us right where you can see it in front of your face. You feel like it's not important. We saw this with coronavirus when it was happening in China, we said, oh, it's not effect yes.

And even current even when it's happening here in the United States.

When it happened in New York and DC and in California, people in other states say, oh, that's a problem. They're not here, We're not worried. And now we see those other states having these numbers surge. Right if you're going to wait until the fire or in this case, the shoreline is at your back door.

It's going to be too late. And for some people, this is not something that is in their distant future. This is something that is happening right now.

Vulnerability to the climate crisis is just another manifestation of white supremacy in a lot of ways, like where people live is a function of history, what resources they have is a function of history. Whether the government jumps in to support you after a disaster is a function of

The third myth is that climate change is a coastal issue, but it's just as important for people in the landlocked areas.

So, yeah, there's all these connections, and the way that we do agriculture is actually super bad for the ocean. All of this like growing animals and high density, and then you have these like ponds of pig manure that are like leeching out to sea, and all the fertilizers and all the lawns fertilizers and all the big industrial farms and all of that goes downstream through rivers to the sea and causes these dead zones and anoxic zones

So if you're listening to this episode and you're in the Midwest and you feel like, Hey, I mean, there are no oceans near me. This has nothing to do with me. This does not affect me. I do not affect it.

That's not true.

The ocean affects all of us, as we talked about earlier on in the episode, and it definitely affects the Midwest in Midwest agriculture.

There's a whole sort of anthropology and historical ecology around sort of how much things have shifted, and this idea of shifted baselines, it means that every generation has just lowered expectations for nature, and that that is actually really damaging because when we try to do conservation or restoration, we're actually is just not ambitious enough. We just don't even understand how like diverse and resplendent and abundant should be.

And that goes back to pretty much everything that we've been talking about the oysters.

Our expectations are so low because at each generation we're just tearing stuff up. You never knew how clean the room could get. We never knew it, We've never seen it.

We really have to start being better and doing better and expecting more for our environment.

So now you should be fired up just like us. Yes, and if you have all this information. Now you know about climate change, you know its effects on the ocean, you know who was affected. You know that who cares about climate change, and that it could be you. The question is now, what will.

You do right? This is an all hands on deck situation. Everyone has to play a part.

One of the things I really care about is making everyone feel welcome in the climate movement. In environmental work, there are so many solutions, there are so many different ways to participate, So I just really want to encourage people to think about how they can be a part of the solutions that we need.

We can't just say we're going to focus on this one thing and do this one thing and if that doesn't work, then we'll move on to the next thing. We need to be doing all of these things all at the same time. It sounds like a lot, but for real, when you think about it, it's not. And part of this includes our government. Policy is so important, and doctor Johnson says the good news is that when it comes to climate change, there are some things that Congress can't agree on.

That topic like should we or should we not have heaps of plastic in the ocean is one of the few environmental issues that hasn't been politicized like Republicans Democrats, Like no one wants trash on the beach, No one wants all this stuff in the ocean, No one wants plastic in their seafoods. So there's actually a real opportunity for bipartisanship on this issue of plastic pollution, and we should absolutely lean into that and take advantage of it.

And one of those ways to take advantage of this is to educate ourselves about the different policies and plans to tackle climate change.

One of them is the Green New Deal. You may have heard of it.

First, I would like to encourage all of your wonderful listeners to read the Green New Deal to either of you know how long the Green New Deal is?

No, we didn't do y'all know.

Pause it right now and think about it. Okay, you're back. You don't know.

It is fourteen pages, double spaced, massive font. It'll take you like five minutes to read it. This is the big secret. Everyone thinks it's like hundreds of hundreds of pages. I could never read it. I could never understand it. Like, everyone, go read it. We can then have an informed discussion about what this should look like. So the Green New Deal is a it's a congressional resolution. It's not a policy,

And that wasn't good enough for doctor Johnson, so she got together with some other climate experts that specialize in the ocean and they decided to draft up their vision for climate change that includes the ocean.

The three of us got together and wrote in a bed called the Big Blue Gap in the Green New Deal, and we're just like, y'all, you're missing it. Here's what we think needs to be included. And so that's what sort of started these discussions about a BLA New Deal and what that would look like. And the idea is that this is a supplement to the Green New Deal, like we just want to make sure the ocean is included. This is not a competing proposal, this is a you know, an addition.

I'm so grateful for the people like doctor Johnson doing this type of work right informing folks. You know, I think she makes some really good points just to help us get through some misconceptions, just for us to see how connected all of these systems are.

And it's just like with other things, once we get past the first initial barriers that are very kind of basic in our understanding of why the ocean is so important, then we can really get to work.

You know what t t Even after that thing came out for LA, I thought, I consider myself.

I said, hey, I'm a scientist.

There are certain facts I know, you know, but I drive to work and it's too far to bike it's too far to walk, But since I've been biking.

Girl, no it's not too far.

And when I realized in July that I hadn't gotten any gas since March, and I was like, I don't need to be so dependent on fossil fuels. There were just so many little small things that I could see. I'll give you another example. Since I've been home, I'm not eating out right, I haven't been kind of ordering things in. But what I've been noticing is the amount

Which has led me to come in a week in a week.

That was something that I noticed about myself too, like I use a lot of paper towels. Oh, I use a lot of paper towels and napkins, Like it was something that I knew about myself, Like when I would go out to restaurants, I'd be like, yeah, I'm always asking for more napkins and things like that, But then being at home and realizing how many paper towels I used for like for everything, even if it's just like, oh, I need to. Oh, I splash some water on the

And with anything where you see a little room for improvement, you know, it just makes you think what else?

Who's next? You know, what's next? What else can I do?

And so I can't wait to talk about some more solutions now that I've seen how easy it is to be an advocate of Earth in general.

Yeah, little steps, little things done by a lot of people can make huge impact.

Yes, what are the little steps for you? They might not be the same as for me, But there are so many steps. There are so many we could take.

That's it for Lab twenty eight, but we have so much more for you to dig into on our website, so head over to Dope Labs podcast dot com.

On our website you can find a cheat sheep for today's lab, along with a ton of other links and resources in the show.

Note and if you want to stay in the know with Dope Labs. Don't forget to sign up for our newsletter on our site too.

Special thanks to our guest expert, doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson. She's co hosting a brand new podcast called How to Save a Planet, and that comes out on August twentieth, so be sure to listen.

Also, we love.

Hearing from you. What did you think about today's lab? Do you have ideas for future labs? Call us at two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight and let us know.

You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs.

Podcast tt is on Twitter at dr Underscore Tsho.

And you can find Zakiya at z Said.

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Dope Blabs is produced by Jenny Raydalt Mass of WaveRunner Studios.

Mixing and sound design are by Hannes Brown.

Our theme music is by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura, with additional music by Elijah Alex Harvey. Dope Labs is a production of Spotify and Mega Own.

Media Group, and it's executive produced by us T T show Dia and Zakiah Wattley. But it seems like There's something about returning to the water, like the ocean, that.

Just feels like Oh, like Mahanna said, who's it Moana?

Oh?

Molana? Yes, I was like who.

And here's a preview of doctor Johnson's upcoming podcast, How to Save a Planet?

How screwed are We?

How screwed are we?

Oh?

How screwed are we?

WHOA?

How screwed are we? I'm Iyana Elizabeth Johnson. And when people find out that I'm a climate expert, this is their question.

I don't get asked that question. My name's Alex Bloomberg. I make podcasts for a living, but I ask it a lot when it comes to the climate and Aana. Lately, we've been asking other.

People this question.

Turns out, the answer kind of depends on us.

Doctor Kate Marvel.

How screwed are we?

We can choose to be completely screwed if we want to, but we also have the ability to limit the damage, so we can choose whether we're screwed.

We're on team let's not screw ourselves.

Exactly, and that is why we're launching this podcast, How to Save.

A Planet, a podcast that'll answer the following questions, What are the key things we need to do to deal with climate change, and how do we make those things happen.

We'll be talking to lots of people about the answers to those questions, people working on climate solutions who never imagine themselves doing this kind of work.

I remember being called an environmentalist and I was like, I'm not an environmentalist. I'm gonna buy you girl, you know. And they're like, well, you want us to do something about the trees, and I'm like, everybody around here wants you to do something about the trees.

I'm just a tree hugger.

I'm just being.

Metaphorically hugged tree.

We'll talk to experts about the solutions to climate change that are already underway right now.

We're at the beginning of this huge boom of offshore win the United States, and we're going to see hundreds and thousands of offshore turbines deployed off the Atlantic seaboard over the next decade.

And we'll look at how much better things will be if we actually just deal with climate change and get this transformation right. The move away from fossil fuels is not going to be impossible.

It's not going to turn our lights off.

The move to a zero common future.

Is not just possible, but it's better.

On this podcast, we're going to be figuring out how we build that better future together, one episode at a time.

How to Save a Planet from Gimmick goes live on August.

Twentieth with me Alex Bloomberg.

And me doctor Ayana Elizabeth Johnson.

Please follow and listen for free on Spotify.

Because Earthlings, We've got work to do.