Welcome to don't drop the tongs. It is March twenty sixth, and we got some guests with us today. Phil is not here yet, because last we heard, Phil went skiing. Yes, Phil the Grill attempted to snow ski. You can leave your jokes at the door with that. But we do know that Phil, Yeah, exactly, And of course he picks the first time to go snow skiing to go to winter Park Colorado, which is like world class skiing. I would love to know how many times he fell
on the damn hill. But nonetheless he's not here, possibly suffering from altitude sickness or whatever. So Phil's not here, But I got Kyle with me from your behind barbecue. You know, his wonderful new restaurant, Birds and Bones, is open for a month now. Kyle looks like he's ten years And you heard some guests we got in the background. Kyle, I will let you take over the introductions. My brother, all right, well, not a stranger to don't drop the tongues. We've got Craig Carter. Welcome
Craig Carter. What's that, buddy? And he's wearing a robe and drinking wine, which okay, I'll uh and then we got the world champion, newly crowned s c A steak champ. Chris, what is up? Chris? My man? What's up? Yes, sir, oh, Andy's got the ring on. Have you taken it off yet? I have taken it off. You know, as you know running a restaurant, you gotta take it off because it gets in the way when you're cooking and you don't want
to get it messed up in the restaurant. Yeah, but I'd be holding it up like this, like, oh, hold on, bro, I'll grab that pizza real quick, pull that out. Hold on, you know what I'm saying. That's all slipping out of my pocket, slipping on my hand when I take the pizzas out to the rest Yeah, throw that sucker off. That's exactly so. Chris, you are the Sea World champion.
Tell us about your background, how you got started and all this what you like to cook on your right you told Kyle and I off line before we got started. You got a restaurant where you're from? Give us the four one one on you. My name's Chris Loudel. I'm from Burning, Alabama. Hi a roll tide or a war Eagle? Uh oh Yeah, let's just say I'm not a war eagle. I have been a roll tide for
a long time. Nick Saban retiring didn't bother me too much. But what Alabama did to Eli Gold, it kind of it put a sour taste in my mouth, I would agree. So do you hate me because I'm a University of Michigan fan and we stopped your asses on the goal line to uh and send Nick Saban out with a big ol' l oh. No, I don't hate you, but you can squirrels got to find a nut every now and then. It's true, man, you guys dominated the landscape for twenty
years. So we'll take our one winn and we'll hold up. It's just like when Auburn beats Alabama once every seven eight years. They talk about it forever. And you know you got you when you beat Obama. Man, you got when you beat a dynasty once in a while. You got to hold it up there, all right. So you're from Alabama, tell us more about it from Alabama. So I've cooked competition barbecue for a long time. Ever since I was a kid. My dad and his best friend was
in it. I watched it when I grew up. I started my own uh two thousand and seventeen, I guess it was it's year Aircots and won his World championship. I was headed to a barbecue contest with my wife in Tennessee and I met Mark Lambert and Mart Lambert had been had gotten to be buddies, and I stopped by the warehouse they were getting ready for the Toka NBN contest. I was going to a CASEYBS comp. Lambert was there, Scott Guy was there, several more was there. And at the Toka that's
when SCA was really just kind of kicking off. They've been around a few years, but it was getting bigger. They're practicing steak well. Lambert and Scott got my wife over there and tried to and started teaching her how to do state contests. Because my wife she yeah, she done my boxes and she was tired of not being able to cooking nothing. So when they hooked her on steak, Mark Lambert cost me a ton of money that day because
we bought two. We bought her a PK and I said I wasn't cooking one yet, but we bought her PK and we started out the end of twenty seventeen. Cooking twenty eighteen, I met Alan and Eric Allen Smith Erk Cosson with Boys Night Out and we just kind of clicked and got to be best friends. And I've cooked with them ever since. In barbecue steak. I'm gonna tell you a real interesting story or real fun story about it. The World Championship last Sunday was my very first win. I've been cooking steak.
I've been cooking SCA since the end of two twenty seventeen, regular since twenty eighteen, and I've had all kinds of second place finishes. Me and my wife got married in twenty nineteen. For our honeymoon, we went to the Bahamas when Brad Barrett put on the the state contest in the Bahamas. I finished second there. She finished sixth, and she beats my ass pretty regular. But that's a cool rivalry to have though. That's good it is.
She's a badass. She's a badass. She finished second at the countdown classes. Wow yeah, so okay, so I know you got to finish this, but so you've never won an SCA contest, never won an SCA contest, So how'd you get your golden ticket? On? Weldon tickets. You can get passed downs. And I've had second places, yep. And if the first place is one, second place gets in her third place. Whoever in the top ten all the way down gets it, bro, because
I go ahead. Sorry, Tim Brown passed passed me mine down in the Eldorado, Arkansas the second week in December. Wow, as you'll learn you as you as you'll learn Cow you probably already learned. You don't get to go out and compete as much as what you won't want you open the restaurant. No, I don't see it ever happening right now as I look at it, effort see it happen. You don't never see another cop in your
life. You'll get absolutely done. But I'm sure I'll be able to sneak out because you know what last year, I think it was last year, I was chasing, you know, trying to get a first place ticket, and I must I had eleven second places, eleven and then towards the end of the year, I think it was November, I finally hit one boom and I got my first place. But I was eleven second place, eleven times second place, which was crazy, Bro, it was crazy. It
was kind of pissing me off too, exactly. I hear you, bro, if it was, I'm gonna tell you Craig, Carter Mattos and Tim Brown, Sandy Brown, Alan, I mean they the mentorship and the friendship they given, they gave us throughout the year, and just little things to tweak, you know, because they cook a lot. They cook. They cook. Craig, Craig's a warrior at it. He cooks every weekend almost,
you know. So when we get to cook side by side and they get and you watch them and you watch their process compared to somebody that only gets to cook ten or twelve contest a year. You know. Yeah, that's that's what got me where I was Son, And you know, I kind of look at it too. It's like where you guys compete. You guys literally can drive in a four hour radius any which way and you can hit a contest. You could hit two contests, you could hit three.
Out here we out on the West Coast, we're limited, like we are on contest. Well, lu's look at all the people you're competing against. I mean, you guys NonStop a competing against champions, world champions, I mean NonStop compared to every weekend and you try to slip into one of those contests when you're chasing your golden ticket, you try to slipping in one of them contest where there's only twenty twenty five thirty folks, and by Friday when
everybody sund up, you've got fifty or sixty exactly exactly. Yeah, See, we don't have that pretty much. I think the biggest one out here is probably about fifty teams, I would say, but yeah, but I mean way Bullhead gets pretty big. I think that was like forty eight last year. But yeah, but like I said, I mean, you guys are non stop competing against you know, competing against the best. And we're pretty good out here too, but yeah, like not on the caliber of
like some of you guys that are literally every weekend. Yeah. When twenty and twenty two when I ran points, I mean, Vitel was Litel was
one of those dudes that that he was. He called me up, He's like, dude, you're going on going and I'd meet him there and he was, I mean, he was a critical part in me doing what I did in twenty one and twenty two, and and I felt like, I mean I always wanted, and I was always just like diving into ancillary yeah, And I was like, all right, let's let's work on steak.
Yeah. Well see, because when you're chasing ancillary points like back when, back when I was chasing too, I mean you could turn in multiple times. I did not give a damn about my steak, being honest, I don't give it damn. I turned in four or five ancillary per you know, per ancillary that they had just to get the points. So, yep, all right, now, Chris, you said you own a restaurant.
Correct, it's a barbecue pizza restaurant. Barbecue, all right. So you were telling us about some of your pizzas you got going, I gotta explain the some of those. It's home pretty damn good. So when I worked construction for twenty one years as a crane operator, and I stayed there for twenty one years, that company I worked for went out of business and kind of a restaurant fell in my lap from competition. Folks want me to cater and do things like that. Did Joey train Joey? Yeah? Yeah.
Joey's one of the guys on Boards Night Out. He's a great dude. He trains us all to do it all. But so the restaurant kind of fell in my lap. And I've always said, if I opened a barbecue restaurant, there's no way you know how much barbecue to cook every day. So what do these guys do to so they don't have so much waste? How are they making money? And as I got in the restaurant world, I learned and realized that a lot of people don't cook fresh barbecue every day.
They cook it once a week, and that's why you got commercial barbecue. But I like to have mine as fresh as I can. So what I do is what I have left over each day for my half chickens, my pull pork, and my brisket. I shred it and I put it on the pizzas the next day. So I've got a pull pork pizza, smoke brisket pizza, and smoked chicken pizza. My pull pork and my brisket both have barbecue sauce on it, cheese, red onions. The poor porks
topped with pickles, and the briskets topped with jalapenos. And then when it comes out of the oven, we top it again with barbecue sauce. The smoked chickens got red onions and bacon on it, and being we're in Alabama and you gotta have white barbecue sauce, so you top it with a white barbecue sauce. Wow, that does sound I was gonna start cooking pizza. No. I could barely handle what I got. Now. They say it's the most profitable thing in a restaurant, but I'll call bullshit. I've heard.
I heard breakfast was the most profitable thing. Is that true? Probably? I don't know. Bacon. Bacon costs money. If you're in a small town or a small restaurant, you got all the the older guys. I'm uh, that was gonna come in and sit there and drink coffee for three hours and take up table space and never order nothing to eat. True, So that's gonna cost you money. True? True. I see your first win sc a world title. Did you did you when you turned in
the steak? Did you think, man, I may have a chance, or did you think, well, we'll see how what you think. I knew I had a chance. I knew it was a pretty steak. Uh. Depending on who you talked to, they say I had a little Aggett walk about me all day that day. Oh he did. He did too. He showed everybody in the compound that steak I did. But it was a it was a it was I mean, it was a gorgeous It was a world championship stake. And he made it even prettier when he cooked the
seven bitch I did. Yeah, I got. I mean, it was just it was meant to be that day. All I can say about his good Lord had it in his will for me to win that day because I mean, you know, I hit the right table. Yeah, you know, it could have hit a different table when it could have went a different way. But it was a pretty steak. Uh. Yeah. There's several people out there that said I had a little Eggets in my walton that I kind of I didn't know, but I knew it was a good state.
Yeah, me, Alan and Egg could Me and Alan Egg had left out Tuesday of that week to go to the Ace Hardware Show because we just released Southern Thunder. Yeah, and I have been We've been me Craig, several of us. We've been working with it for almost a year and we've been trying to get it out probably a little bit over a year, and I knew the color that it puts on a steak. It's it's unreal. So I haven't had the Southern Thunder yet. What is the difference between that and
the latest one? You guys just are you know? Yes? What is the difference between those two color and flavor? I mean totally different, two totally different flavors. Yes, And I use both of them, nice, both of them. One, I use one. I use a Southern thunder from on my steak, and then I finished with Midwest dust and it's it's yeah, makes a pretty good steak, all right? So are you it makes the world champion steak? Yeah? No ship? Are you a Are
you a try hard guy or a spineles guy? I'm gonna try, Okay, I'm gonna try. I like I like a bigger try. It was a big summer, bitch, don't lie it was. It was all right? All right? Well, we got a special guest to just joined us. He decided to show up today to work your ship. Look, it's filled grill. Are you are you on crutches? Nah, Bruddie, I need, I need, I need a new head though, bro, because I had altitude sickness. Out and UH went the park. Bro. He
told it. He told, boy, yeah, I knew you had that. Ain't no joke. If you actually did have it, I give you no, I didn't know. And you know what I did that I didn't know. You wasn't supposed to. First off, whoever heard of altitude sickness?
And then anybody who goes to the mountains. So I landed. I landed for Phoenix to Devi and then I drove up to the mountains and it was this windy road all the way up ten thousand elevation and then I tried to wash down my altitude sickness with some tequila, and oh my god, I almost died. Like I heard my art racing in my ears, like I thought I was. I was never going to make it back home. I wanted to end the trip right then and there. All right, we'll
get back to you. We'll hear more about your your death defying you know, there was a reason why they invented fuel injection engines. Fuel injection, what's that? You obviously never dealt with? Vapor lock? Now. I flew there and then I drove from Denver up to UH Winter Park. But it was like an hour and a half. Oh my god, it was hard. You went across the divide. All right, So back to Chris. Sorry, so you turning this beast? You know it's a monster.
When like, what was the feeling is they start calming them down? Are you starting to go like, Okay, this is either going to go really good for me or damn. I didn't even get a call like there had to be in that feeling because they start being like calling them out. I mean that had to be anxious about number fourteen. I turned and looked at my wife and I said, I'm not feeling this. I need another beer. Hold on, did you leave to go get another beer? Because I
know how it works. No, we take we take the cooler to okay, all right, good? Yeah, we we usually take three coolers. There's one. That's what I'm going to say. Because it's it's a long week. Then our cooler is usually empty like midway during the ceremony. Because you're an alcoholic, that's why we take That's why we take three coolers. I'm gonna say. That's one thing about the White Lightning play. I promise
you we're not gonna run out of bed. Yeah, I need, I need a new plan, Craig, come on, adopt me, Brodie. I need to be with the white lightning crayer. Dude, you can't even hang out. You can't even hang in the mountains. What makes you think, Oh no, I'm not fucking with the mountains anymore. That's it, Yo. About three thousand feet of elevation is my limit. That's it,
all right. So you're sitting there, they're counting down the numbers, like I know because I've done it, you know, And I always have a feeling like maybe, like maybe, and then I always second play myself like nah, no way, no way, that's it. That's how you were doing it. Huh. That's that's I think we all do the same way. Okay, I got a chance. Nah, I ain't got a chance. Okay, I might have a chance. Just back and forth, yep,
okay, every dream that I get the first place call. Yeah, so they call your number, and like, so walk me through that. They call your number, and you'd like double taking it? Is it? You have a picture of it on your phone or you got the you got the got mine in my hat. My wife's got the picture on the phone. So they come out and I can't remember who was hosting it. The two people that was calling the numbers out, they go to talking, they call Bred and Ken out. It's a dead tie for first place. Me
and Stacy Craft both scored a two fifty three point nine. We had fifties across the board with a fifty three point nine and taste, so there was no break in the tie. And they all come out and they go to talking. So we all know it's a tie. They we didn't. They
didn't tell the score, but we all know it's a tie. And it's kind of funny because I talked to Ed cottson well, which we talked pretty regular, and I told him about two or three weeks before, I said, you know, this World Championship is gonna be a dead tie for the
first place. I said, and if they if I'm one of the ones that win it, and they flip a coin to see who wins this damn World Championship, I'm flipping tables, Ed Cottson, if you get second with your with your yeah, with your record, you thick second, I'll be, I'll be, I'll burn. I hope you burn the place down. I hope you so. So they we know it's a dead tie and Ken calls my number first. Well, there's four people in that building that know my number, and it was me, Trish, Tim Brown, and Sandy
Brown. And when they call my number, they said, I look down for just a second, and before I could get up, Tim Brown was hugging me, and they called the other number and Stacey got her call and they she made it to the stage, and I think it probably took me an extra ten minutes to make it to the stage between it just, I mean, it was unreal. The people, yeah, it was. It was a blad. So when they called my number, I look down and
I jump up. Tim Brown grabbs me, Eric Hotson, Grass me, Craig they all, I mean, they're all just on top of me and we're hugging and celebrating. Then I find Alan Bill mand right there. Matt overson the all how big, how big is your booty hole? With all those guys grabbing on you, I'm still sore, yo yo. I don't know if they asked you what was you cooking on? I was cooking on an M eight okay, okay, M eighty. The I started out on a back. When I first started, I started on Weber and then I
went to a PK, then I went to the M sixteen. But last year I bought a M a D at the Worlds and I started cooking on it last year. And it's with that eighty. What's the difference because it's a smaller one, right, it's the smaller than sixteen. And then so let's tell tell me the process as far as like resting from the sixteen to that, not even resting. But wait, you're now you're gonna go all the way. Now you're gonna just jump right into his secrets. Real well,
I just don't I want to know. I want to know what the process is from We've seen I cook on the I cook on the p K. So shut your ship barrel. Hey but hey, hey, hey hey Phil, Hey Phil? You want you want to you want to know what he did ask and what he did asking? What he did on Thursday of the World Championship. Was it Thursday or Wednesday? Or Thursday? Chris, Tim and Sandy, Tim and Sandy uh one day was ancillary Thursday. That
was problem Friday, Friday morning. Friday morning he took Tim and Sandy's class. Oh wow wow. So they had a class in the parking lot or something aheaded after Airbnb, whoa Okay, okay, that's dope. That's dope, and his life, him and his wife when took Tim and Sandy's class, and and and was it cooking on the M eighty. That's my question was did they teach you on the M eighty? Okay? Yes? And that's why, that's that's why you don't want to give out that little that
little process secret. Now I get it. Now I get it because because because because here here's my deal. Right, So when I first started cooking, I was cooking on the C four, right. The problem I was having is after I got my marks right then, you know, putting it together, carrying it to temp, I had to like cover it. I feel like the lid. Closing the lid really helps the consistency of your cook right, not just that upper rack that they have and you kind of put
your steak in there on the C four. So that's why I was curious from the sixteen to the M eighty, like where that spot is on your on your cook the sixteen to me the sixteen and the PK because my watch still cooks on the PK. And you can you can ask Carter We've all tried to talk her into going away from it, and she she ain't leaving that PK sixteen. In the PK you can set up kind of a two stage fire and you can put your you can put your marks, you know
the fires undeasy grakes, put your marks on it. Then when you go to your riser, you know you're away from your fire. Yeah, same way with the sixteen. But the M eighty everything's like that little and straight on top and that and that's part of that was part of my question because you know, cooking on the sea force the same deal, right, so your you know, your your rack is right up top, you know, right above that direct heat. So I'm just pro I was curious on how
that kind of transpired from the sixteen to the M eighty. You know, it really doesn't change it a lot. I thought it would, but it really it doesn't change it a lot. Uh, it's just getting used to being in a smaller area because your heats, your heats still coming straight up some, but it's going around your greats, you know, because the heat's gonna kind of it's almost like a convection coming around the side of your greats. And then heating your stakes, so it's not coming directly up, you
know. Craig, Craig Carter. Craig Carter's in here. And now I understand why Craig had to jump on here because he wants to make sure you don't drop any times. And he's not he's a justice. So I got another question. When you when you flip right, so you put in your mark, you do one whole side and then flip to the other side, because and now for some people they'll they'll flip, they'll do one side and then flip and get a mark on the other side, then flip back and
get another side and then flip. All right, So I'll get one side done and then I'll flip to the other side, and then now I'm checking tempt to see if it needs to go on the riser or not. Let me ask you this, when you put your marks, do you now flip to the other side and put it on the riser or do you just throw it on the riser? Look at cop That's what I tell him. That's
my responsible I was like to see what that what that question was. But I mean, I pick a show side from the beginning of what I call the show side. I picked a show sid from the beginning. Yep, I'm never gonna let that show side touch exactly. You're never gonna let that
show side touch the foil touch never. Yeah, exactly got it. That that's my baby, I mean, that's that's and that's the reason why that because when I kind of thought that people would flip it only because of the direct heat being right underneath it, because you already finished that that other side, right, unless you're starting with your show side last on your flips. I'm never letting the show speaking. This is what we gonna say. I'm like, how many times we're gonna say this? You you my way in
I'll ask back. There's there's souch of the like these questions that you were just asking, Chris kind of tie you into how you probably got altitude sickness because everything in your life you half asked in as soon and take the easy route, and then it gets you altitude sickness. I guarantee you got altitude sickness because the guests, Yep, I didn't drink water. No no, no, he's not saying he drank tequila and then he's drinking on No, I drank beers. Beer beer has got water in it, you know what
I mean? And especially if you're drinking like beers, you're drinking like beers, you know. But Yo, that mountain was crazy that I'm never never going out, all right, Chris, that's part is you should be as crazy as that one is. You should keep on going. So, Chris, how many I could ask? How many classes have you taken on either the online or in person? For say, steak for State. I've taken Tim and Sandy's class. You haven't done any of the online? Uh?
Barbecue champs, Barbecue champs? Now when not? When he's got Matt Overson and Eric Hotson Brown, I mean, how many Craig Greg exactly side with Craig, Tim, Matt, Sandy, Eric Cotson. I was gonna give you. I was gonna give you a hard time. I was gonna say, if you're taking class Jeff Jacobson, oh yeah, he's a killer. Can't yeah, you can't forget Jeff. I mean when you're cooking around all the White Lightning crew, somebody, we're all cooking together. It's just about
every weekend. So I mean every week you guys travel. We don't cook every weekend but every time we cook, I mean it's usually it's not just one or two, you know. Usually we're all talking and two or three or four of us show up in a contest together. You know. Now, do you guys ever get any hate or any any eyeballs from people when you guys roll up and you guys are all cooking together, the whole White Lightning Crew and stuff like that reason why anybody in the world loves us.
I'm hating. I walk through and I start kicking ship and no, just nobody would hate on White Lightning never. Ye, Yeah, I hate. I hate. I hate when I look at these guys try I try to get them drunk. I try to get them drunk is out. But I think they cook better when they're drunk, because you know what Phil knows. Phil travels with me a lot. We get. We get the eyeballs, we get the we get a lot of stuff. When it's just Phil and
I or I, Smitty's rolling or whoever's with us in our camp. We all cook together, and we always get the oh, man, what's going on? Or the guys that walk in your trailer and just what's up? Man, and just eyeball your whole trailer, just see what's going on, just to see what you got. Yo. That's that's that's when you start staging things in your trailer or in your cook area. Put like sand song or some saracha beer. That's a musk. That's a musk. All right,
So let me ask. Okay, so I'm gonna ask both of you, Chris and Craig. Did you guys do ancillaris? Yes, you both did. Craig, yes, yeah, I hold on, Phil? What what first day was? It's appetizers? So can I ask you to what you guys did for your appetizer and if you made it to the next round? Was it anything? Appetizer? Oh? That's right. They had to cook with sauces, right, we had We had to have a Croy Valley sauce. If you'd have showed up. Fail you to know. I didn't
get the ticket, maya, I suck? There's that? And they didn't call me. They didn't call me? What was that? What you? What did I find out last week? How you good to got to call? If if it went down the list, they would have called my name. I think there's a couple of people at large. Yeah, I'm at large. But they didn't call me. Yeah you didn't. You didn't cook enough to earn an at large. Bit. I don't care about that ship. You're too busy getting your footwork. Jiggy back to you guys. Did
you guys advance to the next round in appetizers? No? Wow, no crag you neither. Nope. That's tough, man. It's every time I've done ancillary at the Championship, I've never made it to the second rounde. This was This was the first time, and that uh yeah it it. I mean, they killed me on my flavor and I I did the same thing that I did the two weeks before and had almost the perfect core.
But but you had to use this sauce. I did. How they gonna how they're gonna knock you on the flavor if they gave you the taste flavor that you're bost to us, right, lord? I did smoke another. I did the same thing the week before in Tunica to the exact the exact recipe. I love you, Phil, and I finished second. It's great, cheered you got second last week. I finished second in Tunica the week before Worlds with the same exact deal. And I finished thirteenth in my group.
Oh that's worlds because they only take the top ten. So finishing thirteen, that's gotta sting. Well, I got fifties across the board of fifty one taste and then I got a forty eight and overall impression or execution, whatever you want to call it. So you know, yeah, same thing.
You got fifties across the board with a fifty one taste. Fifty one taste ain't great, but I mean, you know, it's higher than a fifty, and it's higher than a fifty, and then you get a forty eight and overall and I'm like, where the hell that even come from? You know? Okay, to focus on my semi final stake, so the finals exactly. I may not have never made finals in stakes. All right,
then let me ask you this. All right, So you you placed thirteenth in your in your group, Craig, where did you place in your group? I was like, I was like twenty third, twenty third? Yeah, what Chris? What sauce did you use? I used the Apricot chapolte, Craig, what sauce did you use? Same thing? I mixed it. I mixed it, but I mixed it with another I did a caution with another sauce because I did a pork Billy. I did a pork belly Christini, so I needed that red color and a little bit of barbecue
flavor to it. So that's that sounds fire too. Let me ask you this, Craig, just because you you're playing with pork belly and and I'm coming to Memphis? Are you doing Memphis and may or Smoke Slam Memphis and May Good? Can you keep your little pork belly ass over there. I'll be a smokes I'm doing Memphis and May with that world champion right there. Oh you got the ring on yo? You over here, stunning Chris Ship. Okay, okay, if you only started you would have heard all about
the ring. Thanks for How can we not doing Memphis in May Phil? Because you've walked the stage at Memphis and may I know, but you come close to winning Memphis and may Hew in the hell? Are you not doing Memphis and may Smoke Slam with more more? Smoke Slam is not a world championship. Yeah it is. It's more money in it next the World Championship. Y'all keep your answers over there and I'll go to smoke slam and you come over. Hey, I'll come over and have a bardy. Thank you.
Same here, baby, same here, and we're gonna go out for dinner. Yes, we may come over there too. We may do both. I've heard that. What I've been telling people, hold on what I've been and what I've been telling and what I've been telling people is if you got a team of say, thirty people, why the hell wouldn't you separate and say half goes here and half goes here. I've heard the rumor boards not doing both. I'm not here to deny nor conflain, but I've heard
that rumor. That's what I would do if I live That's when I would do it. I'm snitching. I'm like, Yo, you can't. You can't do two crowns. Why can't you? Yeah? Why not? I don't know. I'm gonna put it in the fine print that you don't. Hey, I mean we're made. I mean rules are usually made because of us. That's exactly right. You You ain't live there, Greg, you ain't all right? So here, here's here's something else. Right. I
got. I got a couple of questions because I'm coming, I'm coming east and I'm gonna do some s e as on the East coast, right. I want to know how many uh rib contests you did for s AS, Craig. Have you done any ribs other than just the World Championship? Yeah, I've done. I mean I do three or four year contest. No, I mean for for s c A on the guidelines. Okay, what what do you feel is the better turning? Is it something outside the box
or just direct regular competition ribs? If you know, if you don't, you already know this is, don't drop the dog. You gotta drop some kind of drops on your top, Craig. It wasn't no standard casey where Craig and I have the same boat a round the same damn thing. So, I mean it depends on Okay, it depends. It depends on is it meat? Is it meat only or is it creative? So if it's
creaty, I would jazz it up a little bit. But meat only, I mean you might as well just do a straight up K C B S s c A rib so so, so explain that a little bit, then, Craig. Because s c A has now added ribs as one of their categories, just like steak, so it's it's always been a category. Okay, but yes, it's always been a category, but it's not really considered an ancillary, right Is that more so like a mean turn in? Now,
No, it's just an ancillary. Okay. So so it's in the it's a open Do you feel like the judges give you more love for creativity or do you feel like judges is kind of looking for that traditional knock you out the socks, knocking me out the socks type rib in a box. Like I said, it depends on there's two different style categories. Okay, you can have a creative which you can wrap in bacon, you can put stuff on top of it and turnip soup shit, that's right, Or if
it's meat only, you can't wrap it in bacon. You can put you can put a little bit of chives, a little bit sessamecs on stop on top, but you can't you can't do all the fancy stuff with it on the meat only so so so, so how how do you determine it too? Because I haven't seen that really spelled out as far as it being meat only or just uh, it being it's it's it does read it read it? I got to read it. Yeah, because you can't. You can't
take you can't take you can't take the meat off the bones either. You know. My brother just showed up, my brother. My brother, they told me to read the rules exactly what rules? My brother said, what rules? Okay, So so as of as of this year. So when it says last year, it said meat on the bone in the rib in the meat only category. Yeah, so there was one contest. I turned
in meat on the bone, like literally meat no on the bottom. I had your h I had your I won't drop the tongs on it too much, but I had your ancillary last year when we were all huddled up in my trailer because it was it was raining and storming, you brought your ancillary over and I'm like, ahh uh, Craig. But anyways, I'm gonna leave it at that. So did YouTube Chris? Did you guys cook the
ribs at the World Championship? Yes? You did? I did, Okay, Craig, I was so he Chris, I finished twenty sixth I think wow, what was that? Was that? Traditional or untraditional tradition? Where did you what did you place, Craig? I think it was twenty eight what was that traditional on traditional traditional? Because it was me they specified it.
I mean it had to be fair ribs. And I guess what I'm saying is is like, so I did see some people like they posted like they kind of breaded and deep fried their ribs as well, and they didn't do well. You know, So I was just trying to see, like as far as and maybe you guys know because you were out there was most of the winners the traditional following like k CBS rules or was it like off the cuff? You know what I mean? Outside the box? Hey,
Chris, what what? What? What Eric Conson get? Eric Conson got second and Marcio got first? So that that that should tell you the one? Yeah what what? What? What? What? Type? What type? What did they put in the box? Phil Barbaricie tell you Phil barbecue, crab barbecue, reaching barbecue barbecue with crab ring int country style ribs, oh country, Oh that Chinese ribs. At the end, they put a little red food coloring, uh color. We took a skill saw, we
took a skill song and got them exact size of the box. All right, let me ask you one more question, so see if I can get an answer see I'm I'm digging. I got a dig That's my job, all right. So if you're not gonna tell me traditional or snow skiing, yo did did did? Did they both do the same? Like, either they both did traditional or they both didn't do traditional? Well, one time the ribs they turned in the same exact ribs. They cut them in half
and put them in war each bike. Yeah, there you go, perfect answer. Oh so rip tips, somebody put in rip tips and then other person put in the somebody put it ripped tips, and somebody put it in the bowl. Chris, So you're now an official worldion you win the state contest, are you? I mean, does that kind of like boom? Like you're good, You're done, not done, but you're like like I accomplished it, Like what what next is there to accomplish? Of course you
probably want to go win the damn thing again? But are you going to cook his more? Well? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, I gotta I gotta say something here before Chris pipes up. A lot of people don't know this about Chris. But Chris is on the Boar's Night Out team and the White Lightning Team. But Chris is also one of the he he is the best night man in barbecue when it comes to cooking the whole hog. And he's worked his ass off to learn those pits
and he knows them by the back of his hand. And here's a no. I can't wait for Memphis and made this year to see what and what he does with those hogs and the way he turns them out is phenomenal. But that man is one hell of a pitmaster and that's what he does. That's awesome. Oh So basically, basically you're saying your tips now, yeah, because you know why? Because now I see what's going on in Memphis of May. You go in ahead and bringing in a ringer. You know
what I mean. He's been on the team for years that they know bringing it in. I've been there since twenty eighteen. Yeah yah yah, oh wait where would you cook? You cooked Memphis of May before, Chris, I've cooked Memphis in May since twenty eighteen with with with uh wars. Thanks for showing up early and hearing you. Did you not just listen to what I said, Phil, I did, but you didn't say that it was the Memphis of May that he was cooking with you guys with he's been cooking.
Yeah, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, boards not out goes, I go, yeah, all right, oh okay, all right, all right, So what kind of hog do we buying this ship? Where's your holl coming from? With the only hog we ever buy, Jim, we're gonna have a compart durrock hog on every smoker we ever cooked? Okay, and what what we're cooking on? We cook on backwoods. You fit that whole hog on the backwood. Yeah, they've got a competition hog smoker. And
they got a little red box smoker too. That fits one. I could barely get eight pieces of chicken thighs on that, but you're getting a whole hog, right. That's because you're not laying it out right, sis sticking stand up, stand it straight up and down. Try it that way. That red box is badass. It's funny. So Chris, what's your next what's your next goal? Man? Oh? Nay h My next goal is
Memphis in May? Uh, the night after we won world championship. The guys they they just we go every time somebody wins small event, big event to us and wins huge no matter what. And we're gonna make sure,
the person that wins are the team that wins is celebrated. So our celebration at the trailer that night, I'm not gonna tell everything that happened, but i will tell you we had a conversation that my goal starting this year was not to win the World Championship. Obviously, I mean, that's that's part of it. I'd love to win the World State Championship, but our goal this year would just win Meficine May Uh Alan Eck has chased Memphis in May
for years and years and years. We finished second twice in the last six years. Two years ago we finished second in Whole Hog and we were six hundreds of a point behind Blues Hog Uh to Grand. So our goal has been Medicine May. And I told everybody that night, come to Memphics May prepared to walk that stage because that's what that's that's that's our next goal. I'm not saying we're going to I'm not calling the shot. I'm just saying that's our goal. That's where we Okay, I'm not that I'm not that
the getting to call the shot, but it's not it's not confidence. And we've got We've got a song that we play that. I mean, the our rings and our championships, we kind of show that we can be confident. Yeah, we back up what we talk. You got heavy hitters on that team, bro, you got we do yep. Right, So so this year, what's the lineup for hule Hall? Have y'all seen yet? Like? How many? Like about twenty six of y'all? Right? That do all? What I hear? Did I say? Did I hear somewhere
around thirty or thirty two? Craig? Is that what I heard? I'm not for sure. I think I saw I saw twenty six last week, so I think it's about the same. Yeah, yeah, who who Who's your biggest? Like I know, and I know this is a public question right to everybody. I ain't going to go there. I mean, it's exactly and not only and not only that, it's like you're just trying, you know, for every competitor. I know, for me, I'm just trying to get my best cook. Like what do you do? You just
want to see that golf cart come down the road. That's it, that's it. Or you want to see that golf cart come down the road. Yeah, and then and then and then you got to reset and then you're against three other teams or an older man walking up to you. Well, as you guys are all pissed off, throwing everything in the trailer, saying hey, congratulations you made the top ten. Yo, pull out of it. I was like, yo, we didn't get nothing. I was like, this is some bulls yo. Yo. He's like, hey, are
you trap house? I was like yeah, I was like what. I was like what? I was like? I thought he was going to tell us we was dq in a box now or something else. And then he was like, well, you guys made top ten. I was like what I was sh in the back of the truck. He was ready to pull out of it. You know, Pops was trying to find a gun that got pulled out on him and yeah. So it was No, it's a great bringing Pops. Are you bringing Pops with you the smoke smoke slamfill?
No, I'm bringing Smitty and Moley. Oh I just dropped the toms. He dropped the dogs. Wow, I brought the A team. Hey, look I learned I learned from the best. Yeah. Look, it's all of you guys, right, And then Kyle's look look where he's at right, now he's in a basement, you know, living with a ghost. You know, he's getting molested by a ghost each week in the basement, and and and he won't come out and play anymore. So I gotta find a new team member. So I'm getting the band back together. You know,
my man's Smith Dalk. So you read the instructions and is what you were saying, Hey, hey, speak speaking of getting the band back together? Here later on this year, we might be uh traveling out to uh. I did get a text message about that, about going out to Arizona and cooking an SCA competition cooking with some no no showo oh which one out here in November? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, the trailer's yours. I already told you that we need to get that on the busna be and there's
gonna be a rib cook to Phil. Yeah, what should I do? Traditional? Untraditional? And I don't want to hear no poppy seeds. I don't want to hear poppy seeds and none of that bullshit. All right somewhere from from the Chinese restaurant and turn them That's what I'm thinking. Who has done that? See? That's what? Okay, this is the thing, right, it's gonna be creating and it's gonna be wrapping shitty bacon. Yo. When when has okay, like bear attacks, right, when has a
bear really got punched in the face? Right, Like if you punch a bear in the nose, you'd be like, oh, ship, you know what, I'm gonna just go and get this salmon in the lake. I'm not gonna bother with this guy no more. And so it's the same thing with cooking. Right if you put in some Chinese ribs, when's the last time somebody might be tied to eat ribs by the time they get to your box. He'd be like, oh, ship, he got fried rice and Chinese ribs, and this ship, this ship as good as hell. I'm
giving him all chance. I think that's gonna work. Yes, try it, Yes, it will be a perfect score. Do it every time you go for it. Phil. The first you mentioned earlier in the podcast before Phil got here, that you were watching your dad and grandpa do the barbecue contests, right, so, and then you jumped into it, right yes, okay, So were you still running Pops's recipes and then slowly tweaking and
traveling and doing the whole thing in case some somewhat. Yes, Uh, when I was a kid, I started, you know, they were they they went out for the party. They really wasn't They were doing the backyard deal. There was a local contest back then. It used to be called pig Fast where it was. It was sanctioned by Memphis in May, and they were there more for the party. But I watched him and watched him
and watched him. And then after I graduated high school and I went on the road working construction, I come back and by that time that contest had swapped over to a KCBS comp and I had done my studying and research, so I used some of his what he taught me. But at the same time I knew that, you know, mom and pop recipes don't work,
yeah, to an extent on the circuit. So how much do you think, I mean, there's been a lot of change that you've seen growing up and then into KCBS, And was blues Hogs still pretty popular back then? I mean, I know he was slowly getting going and stuff like that. Right, he wasn't as popular when I first was around it. But when I started doing all the studying and all that, Yes, I mean they were they were still pretty popular. And what do you mean by mom and
pop recipes homemade recipes. I mean, I'm not saying they're not good, but I mean the judges are looking for a flavor in competition, yep, and you gotta go with that flavor. If not, if you're gonna get one of those core cards that say unknown flavor. And okay, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that, all right. So unknown flavor is not a flavor that they're used to. I'm not saying like, use honey
mustard or anything like that. But if you have a killer barbecue sauce and it's got the regular ketchup molasses which to shear and and apple cider vinegar, and you think it's bomb, right, Because I think I had the best barbecue sauce off the street in Atlanta at this one little pit, and I was like, holy shit, this is like the I wish. I've been trying ever since to try to recreate it. But the flavor of profile is already gone. But are you saying that you can't use you can't create your
own sauce. It has to be something that's already out there and winning for you to win, a barbecue cor I'm not I'm not saying you can't. You can, but I mean it's few and far between. How many people do you know it's cooking cops that don't mix blueshag True, that is true. Everything's got blues dog in it right now. I'm not saying that you can't, because you can't, but but your profit ubilities is a lot lower off. That's most people. Do you know what that's that's that's that's something
that's big right there. Like what you're just saying right now, that's that's huge for me because I don't really feel that a lot of cooks, you know, they're just trying to go out there, you know, especially like new cooks. Right if you're trying to get in the game. You're like, yo, I want to hit them with something that they never had before, but that would not really place as well as it may place. Just I mean, look at Southern Thunder. It's it's new. They've had it
for a little while, but it's new. Unfortunately, it's hit. I mean, it's been out on the shelves two weeks and it won a world championship. At Stake, We've been blessed with that you know, but I'm just saying, you know it will hitt. But like that's right, Yeah,
No, that's good to know. I'm glad And this is part of this is part of the reason why we kind of put this podcast together, right, to just kind of like sit around that fire and kind of like converse about different things we do and we don't do, because this is the behind the scene things that nobody sees, right or nobody hears, you know, of what it's like cooking three days in the rain and getting a ring for the first time after taking a class and from what you've already been cooking
for years, and you feel that you're a great cook at something, and then now you humbled yourself to take a class and learn from somebody else that's killing the game to understand what that one thing or that second thing that you might have missed that got you that ring. Am I right or wrong on that? Chris? You're right? The small things and you can ask Craig.
I give them all credit all the time, Carter matt O, Eric Allen, TM, Sandy when we're all together, I mean, we just you watch the process and the small things is what gets you there, you know, you gotta be humble because you don't know everything. Somebody's got to teach you something. Yeah, somebody's good sometimes just sometimes you just got to reset. Yeah, yeah, you're right, You're right. And Craig and
and how how long you've been cooking? How long you've been cooking in the circuits U s c A since the beginning ten years barbecue almost twenty so. So with that being said, right, and this is another great question that I want to share to my radio land right, but his after cooking that long, do you ever get a cold streak? Or like dang, because you start getting it, yeah, right, you start hitting it hit. So when when you get that code streak, do you do you sometimes like
second guests? Or do you keep going out there with the same thing, or maybe you go back and say, maybe I need to or what is everybody else doing now different to get back into the game, or maybe I need to tweet this like talk a little bit of out that. What you do when you kind of get that little cold streak? I don't know how many times, especially in Sea, I've went back to the basics. I mean and it's I mean, it's trimming, it's marinade, I mean everybody
asked about marinade. I mean I've marinated the same for four or five years with the same I mean with wickipig. But it also changes with the steak. The meat changes everything else. But you always got to go back to the basics. Start out simple, don't over complicate it. Don't put twenty thousand rubs on it. All these people are going they put out there like, oh I put twenty rubs on it. I mean they they name every spice they got in their damn trailer, and there ain't no way. Then
people are putting every damn spice they got on their trailer. Yeah, on the steak. The big thing out here too, is a lot of people. I'm using six different rubs and I'm using this, and then I got this marinade that I sprinkle a little bit of this in there, and then I do that and this. I'm like, bro, you got to just relax a little bit, like cut some of that out. And exactly basically
I agree with you. Start from the you know, sometimes you got to go back and yeah, unfortunately, and Phil and I have both been there. We were like, hey, let's step back a little bit, because it's the same thing with barbecue. I mean, yeah, definitely. I mean I got some of the best I got some of the best tips from from uh from Kyle and and Caffeini and and Sterling three years ago. I mean it was it was like reset, go simple, yeah, and nail the flavor. Yeah, no, I get it. And one thing we
try to do with barbecue. You asked me about classes with steak. You know, I haven't took any, uh I really there's a couple on there. I want to take Raymond Patterson one of them. He's just got a new one now and I'd really love to just watch his class and see. But we try to take barbecue classes pretty regular. Somebody in the B and O camp try. We try to get somebody at a barbecue class at least, maybe not once a year, but you know, once every other year
or something like that, just just to keep the knock shark. Yeah. I mean, you know, no matter how good you are, you can always learn something something, right, Don't you feel that way? Because I mean I've been cooking probably since what two thousand and fourteen, and I took a few classes, and no matter what, like we all kind of run the same techniques, but you in each class you could pick up one or two points. You're like, ah, I didn't think about that. Like
man, little nuggets. That's always just the people is when you take a class, take the notes, do your thing, but concentrate on like the little things, the little nuggets it's this much better, or oh, flip the chicken over season the bottom of the chicken before it goes in the box, or just little nuggets and implement it into your game on what you do. That's just kind of how you keep asking about ribs feel. Uh.
I took Travis Clark's class this this past February. Uh And since we took since I took Travis Clark's class, I come back and s c A had a rib a rib cook off in Nesbit and I won the ribs in Nesbit and then Eric finished decond in ribs and Alan finished seventh in ribs at the out there at the World Championship. So just the little things we took from that class is you know, we didn't we wasn't trying to change the whole
game. We weren't trying to go strictly with what Travis does. But like but like Ale said, the little nuggets that you pick up that you could just the small things that change that changed my rib game and changed the whole being o rib game for just you know, and you know, honestly just a couple of things. Yeah, and honestly for me, I think that
was I took that class. I mean, okay, So when I started barbecue twenty fourteen and doing my thing, and probably after three years in I saw Travis Clark was doing a class and I took that class, Pops and I did, and that was by far one of the best classes I think I've ever taken. I mean, it totally opened my eyes to just different things and how big of a mad scientist this Travis is on just the little
things that he does, and it really opened my eyes. And then it was like okay, and I had to take a step back and be like, dude, I'm doing way too much or I'm not doing enough in this category or this or that. But that was That's honestly been one of my favorite classes I've ever taken. Yeah, it was a good class. I you know, I had telling people I was taking it. They had I had different thoughts go into it, because I think people have different thoughts about
Travis Clark. But when I took that class, he's a great day. Not his He's respectful, you know, and and that and that's the thing you know, when you when we've been cooking together for a long time, you know, there's there's the ones that we respect because they you know, we're passionate about what we do and we want to you know, get better
at just our craft. Right. And you know, I've been to classes and I know Kyle was in the same class I was in, and we took a class and this person didn't give us anything, right, they went through their whole cook but didn't say what they were using. I was like, well, what's the sense that the stupid ass class? Right? Like I know how to cook the rip, like you know what what what tidbits
are you know are you giving? So that's the difference, you know, I really feel that, you know, from where we started in the beginning as just you know, the barbecue community and how much it has grown and how much we see on TV now to where you have conglomerates starting their own networks and just wanting to show different cooks and different types of cooks all the
time. You know, it's something that I feel it's and I could honestly say with the group that we have right here, it's not all about the money, you know what I mean? And you could tell the ones that it is all about the money, right, I'm just trying to do this because I want to win and I want to do this, and it doesn't fare well, right, and then they lose their focus because it was all about the money and it wasn't about the passion and and love and the fellowship.
And you know, I really feel that, you know your if your heart's in it, then your mind's in it, and that's what makes the community a lot stronger and what roles. I love it, you know, I was. I was sad that I didn't get to uh the world this year out in Dallas, But after looking at your weather conditions, I wasn't that sad anymore. But hey, hey, you got to tune up for skining. Hey, a couple of questions that I asked Rob Dodge last week,
Right, I'm gonna I'm gonna revert back to you guys. A couple of things I did see at worlds uh that he really didn't have too much answers for the one thing I saw sitting on the sidelines was a couple of blank spots where people didn't go up and claim their prize, Like what was that about, Like you were sitting in the auditorium and they were calling numbers and nobody came and claim their prize. I think that was in the preliminary
and early on when uh. I think there was just a lot of people coming and going and the rain, yeah, the rain, just everything. I mean because at the end of the at the end of the day, I think only one didn't get claimed, and I'm not for sure why or how I mean, but there was like three or four at the beginning, but I think it was all just a miscommunication, people trying to pack stuff
up. Miss miss miss just missed it. I don't think it was anything significant that that that makes that makes a total lot of sense and that and nothing bad Friday Thursday and Friday cruft. Yeah, and that's the thing. I would have probably got way and I'll be like, you know what bumped this, I'll find out later if I want it now. The other thing that I noticed was the scorings in the different groups. Can y'all elaborate to that? Like I've seen some were like fifty fifty fifties, fifty three point
four and tay. And then I've seen other groups they didn't get they didn't get that high. Like I was in the group that didn't get that high in the semifinals. I was, yeah and so and that and that's the thing. Do we because I know in casebs right, we have this whole thing on the table of death. Are we now starting to get groups of the table with the group of death and that's the eight I don't think. So go ahead, Chris, you know, especially at World you gotta you
gotta remember you got judges coming from all over the world. You got international judges, You've got from all over the different parts of the country. So I mean, I think, you know, and I think they probably do a fairly good job of spreading them out throughout the tables. And you get some international judges hitting, you know, on a couple of tables not used to American flavors, and I think I think that may affect the scores. But you know, I don't think it's I don't think it's a bad thing.
I just you know, I think it's just no, and you know what that and that's what I you know, started seeing a lot at the Royal. I've been seeing a lot more international teams getting called in the last couple of years, and with the I'm trying to be politically correct, but more of the Latin start out, but but more of the Latin background, right, So I'm thinking, you know, Latin, right, there's a little more spice to what they've been turning in. And that was a no
no for a while at the Royal. It's always needed to be sweet, you know, extra sauce. Do you think some of that is changing the game on flavor profiles because of the different judges and where they're coming from. Yes, yes, Phil, Yes, Phil? All right, all right, all right, enough enough with Phil attempting. I think we're getting I think we're getting way too I think we're getting way too deep into a great Okay, I asked Craig. I want to ask Craig one more question.
Oh boy, how far north have you competed in s c A and how far south? And what has been your like even playing field as far as flavor profiles. I'll never go to Wisconsin again. Yeah, And I've competed all the way from Florida to the bottom of Texas. So, and you keep the same flavor profile or do you spice it up or tony down when you go into different areas. There's a few ers. I'll I add a little bit of salt to it, but for the most part, I just
try and keep the basic profile. Yes, all right, well let's wrap this up. I'll send it to you, Phil, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, email it to me. Are you coming hey? Are you coming to North Carolina next month? No, I'm actually going to Connecticut. That's why I'm trying to get my tips. Why light and southern thunder and your walk there you go, all right, I'm going with it. I'm going with it and cook it perfectly too, right, and you uh, and you better, Wicked Pig. I'm always wicked Pig. I'm
wiki picked down. You know. You know why I'm gonna I'm gonna drop the times right now on why Because one of my secrets in marinating my meat pause is pineapple enzymes, which Wicked Pig has in it, right, So that pineapple ends on. Does it just flavor it, but it also breaks down the muscles and the fat, and I love it. You may not even wickipig cook with white lightning and Southern thunder and your wall, no matter where you had to cut, even if you pay for all your steak.
All I can tell you is we're going to go there. I heard at one point in time the judges did not like a deep fred Rabbi, and I don't know where that comes from. You must have got a text. All right, I'm a back off before I barrel pulls my coot plug. You already got fold. I just shut you off right there because you don't understand time change. So all right, Well, thank you so much to Chris. We understand it's getting close to ten thirty your time. Craig as
well. Appreciate you guys coming on with us this late. We thank you guys. Congratulations to Chris, world changing. Congratulations world Chap. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on with us, Craig, Chris last, thank you all. I appreciate it. Yes, yes, I'll see you guys in Memphis later. Good. Thank you, Beryl, thank you,