Episode 3: Med Review

Yeah, let's just dive on in. Preston? Our first question is from Thomas, uh, one of our Patreon supporters. He asks, "Do we know exactly what happened to Hazel's husband?" Oh, that's a great question. Yeah, I-I did reach out to his family when I was first researching this case, and they declined to comment, buuuut I did manage to find some records. So Charles Edward Finley, born in February of 1920, married Hazel in 1940 at the age of 20. Hazel was 18 at the time.

Shortly after they married, he had her institutionalized, citing “extreme hysteria” and “unfit to perform household duties”-- He must have been worried about her cooking if she was having outbursts. Oh! Maybe. Uh, anyway, shortly after that, he joined the military. Some of the research I did indicated that he felt very strongly about the war, so he didn't wait for the draft and just joined of his own volition.

Interesting. He died in Germany in 1944, after being shot in the chest-- I mean, at least that's relatively quick.--- Oh, no no no, let me finish. He was shot in the chest, but didn't immediately die of his wounds. Instead, the medical reports indicate his lungs slowly filled with blood over the next day and a half, and he essentially drowned. (Preston chuckles, grossed out) In his own blood? Yep. Wow. What an interesting way to die, my god.

Alright, our next question is from @arkady - I hope I'm saying that right - who asks, "What's the deal with Hazel's family? In the first episode, you guys established that she had no family. Uh, but in this episode, it seems like she did have family." Um... Right, yes, I can speak to this. Again, the family I could track down declined to comment, but from what I understand, Hazel's immediate family died in a car accident when she was 16.

Hazel wasn't in the vehicle and survived, and was sent to live with her grandparents until she got married. Unfortunately, though, right after she got married to Charles Finley, her grandparents passed away, I believe of natural causes. Anyway, her only remaining family was an estranged aunt and uncle, and obviously they had kids, who had kids, and those are the only living relatives of Hazel's. That and, oh, well, obviously her, um, in-law’s family. But... you know. Oh, yeesh.

I wonder if her grandparents passing was, you know, what triggered the outburst You know, Charles institutionalized her for. Yeah, I looked into that, but we don't have much of what Doctor Green had taken note of in those early years, so, yeah, it's hard to say for sure. Alright, and last question.

This one is from Felix, uh, also one of our Patreon supporters, and he's curious to know, "What was the final consensus on Hazel's attachment style?" You know, I think this is a great question, Felix, and ultimately, I think it's up to you guys, you know? Like-- Mhmm, yeah. We do this for you, and, you know, and I'm here to give my thoughts and, you know, you know, expertise, I guess you could say.

And what I really want is to ignite a spark within you guys, you know, to do your own research and come back with your own conclusions, and, you know, and discuss them with us. Join our Discord server! Yeah, It's been a hot topic this week. But yeah, you know, I'd say that we all come to our own conclusions and you know that I invite you to share your thoughts as well. Mhm. Well, that does it for this week's "Mindful Musings."

Don't forget to drop your questions in our comments, on Discord, on Patreon, and maybe you'll get featured on an episode. (Daphne exhales) Okay, that ran a little longer than I think we meant to. Just a tad. (Daphne and Preston laugh) (Mindful Musings jingle plays)

Well, we have a good amount of ground to cover today, so let me start by giving a little bit of recap-slash-context. (couch squeaking, clearing throat) So, as we heard last week, Hazel and Doctor Burnout were starting to get close, to the point where Hazel trusted her enough to allow Doctor Burnout to put her on antidepressants.

Today, we'll hear session recordings that go over Hazel's journey with antidepressants, but more importantly, her and Doctor Burnout starting to get more personal in those sessions. You know, I'm curious to see how, like, in the exploration of new meds, like, how Doctor Burnett and Hazel's relationship and that, you know, more-more personal side developing, you know, how that affected Hazel's mental health. And I feel like this is when we really start to see the start of their romance.

Not just feelings, but actual pursuit of each other. So, in this first clip, Hazel’s been on antidepressants for a couple of weeks, just for some context. (click) (Doctor Burnett exhales) How are you feeling today, Hazel? You look uncertain. I am. I don't know that I feel much of anything. Hmm. In comparison to how you felt last week...? I think last week I had more energy, and that was nice. It felt good to be able to take care of myself some more.

But that grey mushy feeling didn't go away, and now I have energy but that's it. Do you have less energy this week compared to last week? I don't know, I... think I'm going through the motions, I-- I haven't thought too much about how I feel. Okay. Can we take a deep breath and see how we feel? (Hazel takes a deep breath) I don't know. I can't feel anything. I'm numb. I don't feel as awful as I did before, but... Is this it? Is what it?

I can feel terrible or nothing at all? (Doctor Burnett stands and crosses the room) May I? Mm. (Doctor Burnett sits on Hazel’s bed) I didn't get out of bed for two weeks after my mom passed away. I was away, doing my residency, and I hadn't gotten to say goodbye, and I was (deep breath) just destroyed by it. I'm sorry. (exhaling) Thank you, Hazel. After those first couple weeks, I had to get back to things. Going to work, attending lectures, socializing.

And I don't remember much from that next month. I was completely numb. I remember attending a seminar on dissociation. That numbness, feeling like you're a ghost, floating from room to room. Hmm. Medically speaking, the leading theory is it's a weakness, inherent to the person experiencing it. But can I tell you what I think? Sure. I think we dissociate when we need to protect ourselves from our reality.

I think I couldn't yet exist in a world without my mother, and so I did whatever I could to cope. And I think you're struggling to adjust to a new medication, and are doing whatever you can to transition slowly between feeling terrible all the time to feeling joyful and energized and good. Can I hug you? Again? Of course, Hazel. (Doctor Burnett scoots closer, and they hug) (click) (Preston clears his throat) Whew. Alrighty, welcome back, guys.

Uh, I think that clip was fascinating, you know, that was just-- Oh, I agree, I think this stage of their relationship is so cute. Um, oh, I mean, God, Hazel asking for the hug and Doctor Burnett sharing something personal-- Oh, I actually have a journal entry of Hazel's I'd like to read out for you. (Preston sighs) Okay. (Daphne flips through paper) Ahem. "These last few sessions with Doctor Burnett have been really insightful. I'm so thankful to have someone like her taking care of me.

She's been going so above and beyond, as usual, but even doing things she's technically not supposed to do, like sharing personal details and hugging me. It helps make those sessions more comfortable, I found it so hard to talk to someone who I didn't know anything about. Now I feel like I know who Doctor Burnett is. It makes it so much easier to talk about my hysteria and insanity. I trust her, and I believe that is helping me far more than any pill." Okay, Aw. I have some thoughts. Of course.

Okay, there's-there's certainly some medical guidelines being crossed. I-I-I don't know the specifics of what the code of ethics was for doctors in the 50s, uh, but we know for sure that Doctor Burnett wasn't supposed to get too personal or affectionate with Hazel. You know, Yes, and? Well, I mean, those guidelines exist to prevent like, like, issues, you know? What issues are they preventing? Hazel literally says that she thinks they're barriers to getting good care.

Okay, I don't know how reliable a narrator the asylum patient is-- Preston-- What I'm saying is that I think Doctor Burnett is, at this point, you know, starting to let her feelings for Hazel get in the way of treating her as a patient. You know, there's something so interesting here about Doctor Burnett's psyche-- I thought you wanted to talk about Hazel's psyche.

No, I do, but Doctor Burnett is a big part of this sto-- case, you know, and-and, you know, I think Doctor Burnett's intentions have always been more complex. You know, I think Hazel was a puzzle, then a prize-- you know, not to say that, Doctor Burnett didn't care, but there's something interesting I want to dig into about how Doctor Burnett felt and thought about Hazel. Hm. Well, I guess we can discuss that later. For now, here's a clip from a few weeks later.

At this point, they've transitioned Hazel off her first antidepressants, and she's a couple weeks into her trial of the new ones. (click) So today, Hazel, I wanted to discuss your life on a broader scale. We've talked about specific events or feelings, but I want to talk more about goals, or regrets, things of that nature. Get a broader picture of things, so that maybe we can help you start working towards some ambitions. Um... alright.

Are there any goals or milestones you feel you've missed out on? Do you, um, do you... do you mean because of my... my illness or because I'm, um, here? Either or. Well, it's... just sometimes I am... I think that perhaps no one would want me when I get-- if-- if I get out of here. What do you mean by that? I was... how old was I? When I was widowed, Well, young enough to have remarried, then, I suppose. But now I'm just a spinster. You're still very youthful.

No, nobody marries a crazy 28-year-old. You're not crazy, Hazel. Maybe. Why do you feel you've missed out on remarrying? Companionship, mostly. Someone to grow old beside. Do you feel you've missed out on having children? I, um, I've never really wanted children. Children are lovely, but they're loud, and sticky, and they want to pull your hair and bite your ankles. All the laundry, and dishes, and sweeping, and tidying... it's enough to clean up after one man. Hm. I agree. You do? Of course.

A woman's place in the household is... an unpleasant thought. That's why I sought out an education. Doctor Green thought I was... what did he say... belligerent or something, when I told him I did not want children. With all respect to Doctor Green, men do not forfeit their identities when they have children. They still go out to work, get called by their first name, have normal conversations. Women stay home and play pretend cooking, and then stand up and do all the actual cooking.

I always hated the idea of being called "Mom." My name is Audrey, not "Mom." I've never wanted to feel like all I am is the mother to children. Audrey's a beautiful name. Thank you. Hazel. (click) (Preston inhales) Hoo, boy, mmm. Go ahead. I think these sessions are getting really, really personal. You know, Doctor Burnett is talking at length about her beliefs about children and staying at home-- I agree. I'd argue that she's validating Hazel's experience.

You know, she's not validating, she's empathizing. You know, which, you know, is typically a good thing, but I think in this scenario, it's hindering Hazel's recovery. How so? Well, I mean, how is talking about marriage and kids helping her depression? It's not. But what's helping-- Exactly, I just think we're seeing her lose-- What's helping Hazel is developing a personal connection. We know she has trouble socializing, and we know she's been basically in isolation for a decade.

Like, a conversation isn't treating her depression, it's treating her loneliness, which, you know, for all we know, could be a major source of depression. I just think we're seeing her lose momentum. You know, you can hear how out of it Hazel is in that clip. You know, she-she's-she takes long pauses to try and find the words. I think she's mentally very out if it. And as Doctor Burnett engages her more,

Hazel seems more grounded, doesn't she? (Preston sighs) Sure. (exhaling) This next clip is from a couple months later. Now, Doctor Burnett's notes here show that Hazel had been taken off the meds she was on in the last clip, and this session took place during her first week on new meds. (click) (Hazel hums) (Doctor Burnett sets up) You look like you're feeling peppy today, Hazel. (giggling) Peppy? Peppy. I do feel better. Clearer, right now.

That's good. (Doctor Burnett takes a note) I've been reading that book you gave me. Oh, what do you think so far? I'm really fascinated by it, Audrey. I'm so glad. I'm at the part where the sister's planning to run away. I think the relationship between the two siblings is so interesting. It reminds me of what Charles was like with his sister. The siblings are very sweet.

When I was younger, my sister and I used to sneak out in the middle of the night together to play by this creek that ran through our neighborhood. (Doctor Burnett chuckles) Once, Mary slipped on the mud and fell into the river, and in the dark, we couldn't see just how much dirt she'd gotten on herself.

We snuck back into the house that night and left these huge, muddy footprints all the way from the back door to our room. (they chuckle) Our mother was furious, but our father told her that she should be glad her girls weren't sneaky enough to not be caught. We never told them we'd snuck out before. They thought they caught us the only time that happened. (they chuckle) I used to sneak out when it was raining at night.

My mother liked to keep the house so warm when it was rainy, and I couldn't sleep with it so warm, so I'd climb out of my bedroom window and sleep on the deck. And you didn't get sick? Oh, no, Audrey, I did. (they giggle) I just preferred getting a cold to sweating through my nightshirt. (they laugh) (click) I really like these sessions. There's something so sweet and normal about them, when, god, Hazel has been in a situation that's been very harsh and isolating for so long.

I mean, yeah, they're sweet, but are they actually helping Hazel? She's on antidepressants, isn't she? Listen to her, Preston, she's talking, laughing, reading, telling stories-- I just think that this isn't recovery, you know, it's just distraction. You know, anyone can laugh if someone's being funny with them, you know, it doesn't mean she's magically better now. It's not magic, Preston, you can clearly tell that having more personal connections has been good for her.

I think there's a more nuanced conversation to be had about this. What nuance? This is the beginning of their relationship. You can hear how interested they are in each other. Yeah, you sure can. I think that your concerns are valid, like, in other situations this might not be the best way forward for someone in Hazel's position, but in her situation, I think it helped her. Okay. I have one more clip to show you before we take a break here. This one is from 1952.

We're skipping ahead a few months, but all you need to know is that there was a lot of Hazel coming on and off antidepressants in the meantime. And at the time of this clip, she was on week 3 or 4 of a new dose of antidepressants. (click) (Doctor Burnett sits, opens her notebook) Good morning, Hazel. Hmm. How are you feeling? I don't... know. (Doctor Burnett takes a note) Do you know what the date is today? February 14th. It is.

I brought you a little something. (Doctor Burnett digs through her bag, hands something to Hazel) I figured it had been a while since someone brought you chocolates on Valentine's Day, so I smuggled those in from outside the asylum. Don't tell Nurse Amelia. Thank you. But, um, I think you'd appreciate them more than I will. What do you mean, Hazel? I don't have much of an appetite. No, no, hold on to those. They'll spoil. Let's talk through this for a moment first.

I can take the chocolates back if you really don't want them, but I want to make sure that's the case. I really appreciate the gesture, Audrey. This is very kind of you. And I know you're risking your reputation by smuggling in sweets for me. But I... Yes, Hazel? I don't know how to describe it. I feel empty. As in depressed? No, I don't feel depressed. I don't feel much at all right now. I haven't cried in a couple weeks.

I don't think I've laughed either. (Doctor Burnett takes notes) I'll be honest, Hazel, I don't have any other antidepressants I can try with you. We've gone through the full list. Oh. Do you want to try to stick these out a couple more weeks? Or would you like to call it off, and try another treatment altogether? I don't want to disappoint you. Why would I be disappointed? Because I didn't-- I failed-- I-- The meds didn't help you. It's not your fault, it's just your biology.

I should have suspected they wouldn't work. Why? I'm not sure you have depression, Hazel. You've displayed symptoms that are indicative of schizophrenia, but we've ruled that out. Antidepressants didn't do much at all for you. I think I'll have to do some reading and see if we can come up with another theory to test. (Hazel sighs) It'll be okay, Hazel. Antidepressants weren't for you, that's all. And I promised you I'd take you off meds that didn't help. So that's what we'll do, okay?

No more antidepressants. Alright. Thank you. (Preston clears his throat) Alrighty, welcome back. Daphne, I assume you have more to share. I have a journal entry of Doctor Burnett's from about two weeks after their Valentine's Day session. Shall I? Go ahead. (page flipping) "Hazel's been weaned off her antidepressants. She reports feeling more like herself, and is having an easier time engaging in activities, such as walks around the courtyard with Nurse Amelia.

I've noticed she's been putting less effort into her outward appearance since she's been off the antidepressants. (page flip) Hazel's been wearing plain, comfortable clothing, and hasn't curled her hair or used her makeup. Hazel reports preferring to draw or paint with the time she would otherwise spend on her appearance." Oh, you know, so she's still depressed. What? I mean, that's a very common symptom of depression in women.

You know, getting dolled up is a pretty time consuming task, you know, that requires a lot of focus-- That-that’s not-- and-and it tends to be one of the first routines to go during a depressive episode.

Hazel's getting comfortable with Doctor Burnett, Preston, obviously. Up until this point, Hazel hasn't quite known if Doctor Burnett is in her corner, but when Doctor Burnett allowed her to go off her antidepressants, it proved to Hazel that Doctor Burnett isn't like Doctor Green, and now she can stop trying so hard.

Okay, you wouldn't know this because you've never had a girlfriend, but women stop putting as much effort into their appearance when we're comfortable with someone. (Preston gasps in feigned offence) Are you shading me for not having a girlfriend? Yes. Daph, I'm gay. I mean, of course, I've never had a girlfriend. (Daphne and Preston laugh) Okay, my point stands. Onto the next clip? Sure, sure, yeah. (click) (Doctor Burnett sits, opens her notebook) So, how are you feeling today, Hazel? Better.

I think the sunlight is helping. It was such a gloomy winter. (taking notes) It was. But you're feeling happier? More energetic? I don't know about happier, but certainly more energetic. (Doctor Burnett takes a note) I've gotten back into the art supplies. And how have you been finding that? Good. I'm not painting or drawing much, really, just the sunrise or that family of ducks from the courtyard.

But it's something to do with my hands. (Hazel opens her sketchbook and tears out a page) I wanted you to have this one, actually. I did it the first morning I didn't have to take any pills. The sunrise was especially pink. This is beautiful, Hazel. Thank you. I just wanted to show you my appreciation, and I obviously can't run to the store and buy you flowers, so... Appreciation? For what?

I've never had a doctor take me seriously before, much less take my opinions and feelings into consideration. This was the first time I've had a say in my treatment. And even though the antidepressants didn't work for me, I found myself glad to have tried them. And that's thanks to you, Audrey. (Doctor Burnett crosses the room and sits on Hazel’s bed) I'm very happy to know you, Hazel, do you know that?

Of course, there's no scenario in which I wouldn't allow you a say in your care, but I want you to be happy. Seeing you smile makes me smile. I'm happy I know you, too. Not just because you've been taking good care of me, but seeing you smile makes me smile, too. (they lean closer to each other and kiss) (Hazel sighs happily) (click) Preston? Okay, uh, yeah, I'm-I'm thinking my thoughts. Um, yeah. I'm just trying to find the words. Okay, then I'll start.

I think that this moment between them is, like, insufferably cute. But I also think that given the time period, there had to be ways, like, for people to queer flag. You couldn't ask someone if they were queer because being queer was, like, basically illegal. So the fact that Doctor Burnett and Hazel used the idea of making each other smile as queer flagging is so sweet, but also so profound and meaningful. Queer joy just, ugh, it makes me feel so many things.

Hmm. Yeah, you know, I think there's something interesting in the way that they're queer flagging, you know, for sure. But I want to maybe dig in, you know, deeper, if we can, next episode, into some of the personal-versus-professional dynamics happening, you know, here, and you know, how maybe that's impacting Hazel. Um, for sure. Sure, yeah, we can talk about that next episode.

Yeah, because, you know, of course we'll- we'll have to see what happened, you know, after that kiss, because, you know, there could be some very serious consequences for that, especially for Hazel. Well, we know how it ends. Well, I'm curious to see how this develops. Hm, yeah. And on that note we'll wrap up today's episode here. Yes, join us again next week here on "Mysteries of the Mind," as we get deeper into the affair of Doctor Love and her patient-- Exclusively with us!

I'm Daphne St. Clair, our hopeless romantic-- And I'm Preston Knight, our psychology nerd. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next week. Bye! (theme song begins) Doctor Love is written and directed by Maya Appavoo and produced by Maya Appavoo and Monica Gate. Starring the voice acting talents of Madeline Harsh as Daphne, Jacob Martin as Preston, Abby McDougall as Doctor Burnett, and Emily Lizotte as Hazel. Post-production management by Monica Gate.

Sound design for this episode by Ken Kosowick, and music by Ken Kosowick. The full list of credits and disclaimers can be found in the episode description, or on our website: appoova.ca/portfolio/doctorlove. Follow us on social media! We are @doctorlovepod on everything. Doctor Love is supported by the Edmonton Arts Council, and the City of Edmonton. Thank you for listening. (footsteps fading out) (door closes, theme song ends)