¶ Developing Financial Habits in Residency
I wasn't thinking about saving , I just wanted to just get through residency . Because I just wanted to get through residency , I wish I was at your mindset .
How did you , like , not feel like you were drowning between trying to survive as a resident you know , being a new city and then also , at the same time , have this like forward thinking plan that even the extra bit that I have , I'm going to put towards this delayed gratification of paying off my debt ?
You know , I think it just starts with having a mindset of whatever habits and behaviors you develop today have compounding interest . Being able to manage the money my student loans and the money that I had coming in at medical school and developing a budget then helped me to master that skill . So when I got to residency I could build upon it .
It allowed me to capitalize and understand that , okay , I have these moments in which I'm cooking , I'm cleaning , I'm doing other things that I can build in some education here outside of medicine . And how can I do that ?
By capitalizing on an audio version of learning material , so I don't have to necessarily sit down and read , but I am still building this muscle . And so I knew then that if I don't start to practice these small skills when I become an attending and making a lot of money , then I'm more susceptible to making mistakes .
So let me just practice at my lower threshold right , my lower income . Dr Brittany .
You talking what I'm talking Now for the folks that are listening right now , they're like , okay , well , I'm getting mixed messages , right , and it's also a scary time government-wise , right ? Like , okay , so
¶ Building Small Financial Skills Compounds
there's PSLF , that's out there . I can use the arbitrage you know I can use , you know , paying off a lower amount If I stay at a hospital , you know , for 10 years , or a nonprofit hospital for 10 years , you know I can use the additional monies you know to invest or do something else with it .
Right , which is what you're talking about and what you know we didn't do . Or you know there's also the other message of just pay it off and get it done quickly because you don't know , we don't know if PSLF is still going to be here , we don't know if hospitals are going to be considered nonprofits anymore , or anything like that .
What's your advice for folks listening right now , like the resident who's up and coming , getting ready to finish , or in attending ? How would you tell them to handle that debt ?
Yeah , I think that's a great question because there's so much uncertainty right now and that was one of the reasons that was my impetus to paying off my debt .
And so whenever we make money decisions , my first sometimes not as logical as people want to hear but my first recommendation is to turn internally , because we look towards external sources often for information . But you gotta figure out okay for you .
What matters most to you Is forgiveness , the option that you wanna pursue Like does it sound okay for you to work at a federally qualified center of some sorts who has a 503C designation for 10 years ? How does that feel for you ? For me , I didn't want to be limited by that right .
If I wanted to go part-time and not meet the eligibility criteria , then I wanted to have the freedom to do that right Without somebody telling me that I had to go to work .
I see so many of my female colleagues specifically who wants to cut down because now they have children but they have to go because they're under pslf yeah , I don't even think about that .
I always think about they have to give birth , they have to take time off , but then I'm like oh yeah they can't give .
They can't take time off for pslf also I mean outside of your FMLA maybe , but anything more than that then no , that's a whole different pressure I didn't think about .
So it's like in some ways a golden handcuff right , and so you just got to figure out for you . For some people it doesn't matter . They're like , okay , I'm going to do three years of residency , three years of fellowship , and then I only have four more years , like that's no big deal , I'm not bothered by it .
And if that is the case for you , then I say that forgiveness is likely a good option . And if you feel like you want to have freedom to do other things , to pursue other passions , then forgiveness is probably not the best option .
Then I think you have to just go introspectively to understand how do you feel when the locus of control is outside of yourself , when we see that things can change depending on the administration . How would that feel for you if you would have done all of this and at the end of it you still got to pay off your student loans ?
Right , and so for me because PSLF it was like 1% of people were getting their student loans forgiven . I'm like , nah , you know I got . I could do better than that , and so that was that was my perspective . After you've gone introspective , then the next step is just getting an understanding of what your debt profile is .
I hate when people make decisions out of misinformation . There's no worse way to make a decision right . And so you want to understand what are your student loans ? Where are they ? Are they federal ? Are they private ? How much do you have ? What are the interest rates ? I got like a spreadsheet . Just make a spreadsheet . I got
¶ Navigating Student Loan Repayment Options
one that I , you know , give to my clients . I'm happy to pass that along , but that's where you want to start at , because that's going to modify your moves of how you're doing things . And then go on a few websites , get a calculator and see how much your monthly payments are going to be .
Another thing that I want to say is sometimes we feel disempowered that we have to pay the amount that has dictated us .
Yeah , you don't yeah .
Like , you know better than me . So that's what they told me to pay , is what I'm going to pay .
Exactly Right and so no , there are ways to modify that payment . There are ways to negotiate , even if you have private loans with these companies . So I want you to now practice better understanding your debt profile so that you can leverage that understanding to negotiate for your benefit .
If that's going for forgiveness and it's based on an income driven repayment option , understand what it looks like when you make more money . Understand what it might look like when you get married , Like what is that going to happen to your income ? What is that going to happen to some of the other benefits that you might get as a married couple ?
But maybe you might want to file separately . But when you file separately , you lose some of those benefits . Right ?
So you got to do this calculation to understand that .
And sometimes we are just like , OK , well , I don't want to wait until I get there . And it has worked for a lot of people for the past five years .
Most people have not had to pay on their student loans , but at some point those payments are going to be due and you want to make sure that you can afford that payment and you want to understand how that payment is going to be based so that you can actually make it , Because you don't want to put the loans into deferment right .
And then or forbearance , and now you have , you know , accumulation of interest and you don't want to miss payments , and then it reflects poorly on your credit profile . So making the payment is going to be to your advantage from a financial perspective of lowering the amount that you have to pay and just overall , making sure that you're financially well .
And if you wait to figure out how much the payment is going to be on the day that that payment is due , it's less likely that you don't have the money in the bank or you're going to feel good about the payment .
Right , I think part of that psychological component . I think it permeates throughout everything you just said . I think there's one piece of it , at least for me .
I can say that looking at the amount of money that you have to put out also , I think , has that psychological component right , Meaning , you know , if you , if , especially as a resident right , as a resident you're not making the big bucks , you're making something but you're not making the big bucks .
But if you have a thousand dollar or $800 payment , right , something that , honestly , most of us who have gone from medical school to residency , we've never had an $800 payment each month for something like that in and of itself , right .
So when you talk about introspective , going in and thinking about I have to pay $800 a month for this , for me , I have to tell you when I was in residency , that was a big blow to my mind . Have to tell you when I was in residency , that was a big blow to my mind . You know , like $800 a month , like what in the world ?
I've never had to make $800 , you know an $800 payment per month for something . So when you are talking about being introspective , I think that there's that component of recognizing that that seems like a lot of money to you .
You know what I mean , and it's like you got to get over that hump of recognizing that you're just going to have to pay a whole lot of money .
But I will tell you , once we started paying off our loan debt and Nii just mentioned that we would put $20,000 at any given point in time to the loans right , that actually didn't bother me , and the reason it didn't bother me is because
¶ The Psychology of Large Loan Payments
I had a North Star . I had a plan . I knew when it was going to end In residency I felt like it was never going to end , but I didn't have a plan .
So if you are in a position to the listeners , if you're in a position right now where you feel like man , but this loan payment is so much , I'm telling you , if you have a plan , if you have a goal and you say I I'm gonna pay it off in this much amount of time , that amount of money will not hurt as much anymore because you know eventually it's going
to end yeah , it's like med school , right , you know it's gonna end one day , I think .
I think so I agree with everything y'all are saying . It's the folks who are graduating with 400 yeah 500 . That I'm really worried about because I get it , yo , I get it . It's a lot . I get that you don't want to be at a place for 10 years , but yo , 400k as a single person if you're single on your own in terms of paying off debt .
That's a lot of money .
We had one show that said they had 600,000 . An individual .
Yeah , I believe so . And that's where it's like , yeah , you can pay it off , and I agree , you may want to consider paying it off all by yourself , but also , at the same time , it's like dang yo if I could do it over a 10-year span with PSLF and then be able to not spend that amount , if you know what I mean , just the minimal amount .
It's something to think about . It's a lot to think about .
Yeah , you gotta look at your situation .
Yeah , I agree , it's a very awkward place with medicine right now . I'm telling you right now it's a really awkward place .
And with the current administration and everything up in the air , it's a lot . It's overwhelming , you know , and I think that uncertainty leads to that overwhelm . But the long and the short of it is like .
I agree , renee , you just need a plan , you need to create a plan whatever the plan is due to figure all that stuff out , but you're going to be much farther ahead if you start to conceptualize this stuff now . Yeah , the government is crazy . They put my payments on pause . Thank you , jesus .
I ain't got nothing to pay right now , but let me actually do a little bit of understanding of what does this income driven repayment option mean ? Of what does this income driven repayment option mean ? So , if it's based upon my adjustable growth , adjusted gross income , how do I adjust my gross income to ? be the lowest amount , so I pay the least amount .
Over time , you know if that means that now , instead of buying shoes or going on the trip , or whatever the case may be , contributing to those things that don't bring you joy , you contribute a little bit more to your 401k and you get that income down a little bit .
So I think either way , in this arena of uncertainty and all of these economic changes , it is prudent for everybody to understand what they want to do , understand how they want to do it and what the payments are based on , and then also give yourself some grace and compassion that if you want to change the plan , you can change the plan .
I was doing PSLF and then I paid my student home and both ways work you know Right .
So listen , dr Brittany , you got a podcast . You got the amazing pod mic there . Listen , you're sounding good and clear . We love it . So if someone's listening to the show and they're like yo man , I just want to hear more of what she's got to say . Dr Brittany , tell them how they can find more about the Wealth Minded MD .
Actually , tell them what it's about .
Yeah tell us what it's about when you launched . Who your co-host is . Tell us all about that .
Yes , Thank you . So we launched last year . February 28th Our first podcast episode came out and it's with Happy anniversary .
Thank you , thank you . Thank you , podiversary , excuse me , podiversary .
Still teaching us girl .
And it's with Dr Alicia Taylor , who is a sports medicine doc . She's at Morehouse right now . So I know that makes you all happy and you know we called it Wealth Minded MD because we are MDs but also the MD stands for money decisions and we
¶ Creating a Plan for Financial Freedom
really come from a position of vulnerability and also expertise , because we want people to know it's not all about getting things right .
I think many times that pigeonholed us into seeking a financial advisor or paralyzes us from even getting started , because we don we share our money , mistakes and to say like , look , we I don't know how many years in the game and we've been .
how you learn from them ? And how you apply them to . You know your next money move and it's all about your money decisions . At any point , your money decisions can change and we want you to just thoroughly understand that . So we talk about our lives . You'll hear me talk about my kids on the podcast .
My husband Alicia's travels as a single woman , but then we also get nitty gritty and talk about backdoor Roths .
And you know I'm going to be sharing how we did this strategic tax move to save about 23 grand on our taxes this year you know , without using extra money , and so we allow for people to get a glimpse into our lives and our pocketbooks , as my grandmother would say . So that's Wealth Minded MD Podcast . We're on Apple Podcast . We're on Spotify .
You can find us on Instagram as well .
That's right , everyone , all your DSPs , everywhere . What you want to say , hold on .
So is pocketbooks like old folk kind of term .
That's what you said . Yeah , my grandmother was with pocketbook . Yeah , pocket , well okay okay there could be two types of pocketbooks , I guess , and everything oh yeah pocketbook could be a different term , you know , um , but uh , for this , this , there's a reference .
We're talking about your wallet , but yeah , my grandmother was sometimes called another part of my body .
Yeah , yeah , I remember that too that's not quite what I was talking about your wallet , but yeah , my grandmother was sometimes called another part of my body yeah , pocketbook . I remember that too .
That's not quite what I was talking about , but I remember that too . See , now we potting , now we potting . Dr Brittany , you know what I'm saying . But there it is , guys , wealth-minded MD . You can find her on all your DSPs . That's rights , that's Spotify , that's Google . Podcasts don't exist .
But there's .
Pocket Cast anywhere where you listen to your favorite music , your favorite audio book . That's where you're going to find Wealth Minded MD . Also , the link to her show is going to be in the show notes . So , dr Brittany , we appreciate it . Yo too bad , you're from Boston .
But listen , she's from Flint , she lives in Boston . She's from Flint .
She's from Flint . Shout out to your Detroit Lions and to Michigan , to University of Michigan . That's what's up . But you know we really appreciated you coming on this show . This was a very informative show .
Yeah , it was a fun conversation and I don't think we've ever talked to someone who started off PSLF and got off PSLF and just said just pay it off on their own , so that's that's a great story for y'all to take a listen to .
Thank you so much . This has been the most that I've laughed on a podcast , so thank you for that . Laughter is good for the soul and I appreciate y'all .
You know , mugs be too stiff . That's what it is . People be too stiff all the time , and that's why I appreciate your
¶ Wealth Minded MD Podcast Introduction
show . That's why I appreciate your show , because I think that people need to start sharing more of their losses , right ? So that's why we haven't done like those type of episodes in a while which , now that you mentioned it , we need to go back to that but like we started off doing whole life , even though it didn't work for us .
You know we started off with that and then we got rid of it and then we paid off our debt and then you know we made other mistakes along the route , you know , along the , you know our pathway and stuff , and I think it's , you know , just as as nice as it is to share your wins and to share how glamorous your life is , and so forth .
I think it's equally important to share the mistakes so other people can be like ah , I see what that person did . Let me not do that immediately at a residency and so forth . Let me pick the right spouse , let me talk to my spouse the right way . Let me not be on the lam with the IRS . You know what I'm saying . These are just things .
Am I telling your story ?
These are just things that the more you share , I'm not on the lam , I just owe them a whole lot of money , yeah , and it was coming for you , that's why I married you when .
I bailed you out , you paid it and when I bailed you out . Yeah , I'm teasing y'all , but listen . It's about sharing your wins . It's also sharing your losses . And , dr Brittany , we appreciate you coming on the show .
Thank you , thank you , thank you .
Thank .