¶ Medical Careers and Disability Insurance
What kind of resident would be okay , not having a property manager ? I'll go first Dermatology , dermatology what are they doing ? They're not doing nothing . They're not doing anything , right ? Oh , hold on a second . I've got to stop writing this prescription for steroid cream to take this freaking phone call .
You next I'd say orthopedic surgery . They're basically doing carpentry in the goddamn . Oh , they can fix the issues .
I finished this leg , I'm gonna go and fix this toilet with the same tools that I was fixing his leg with thank you , folks .
Your exciting new medical career . It's just been hit with a serious illness or injury that stops you from earning a paycheck just when you need it most . Check out what Jamie Fleissner of Cephalife Insurance said back on episode 176 about having disability insurance early in your career .
The real reason to get it early on is really twofold . One is to protect your insurability . So if you are healthy and you can obtain the coverage , you also pre-approve yourself to be able to buy more in the future . So down the road , as your income does increase , you don't have to answer additional medical questions .
All you have to do is show that your income is increased and you can buy more benefits at that time . No medical questions asked .
Protect your income , secure your future . Check out setforlifeinsurancecom . All right , we are back with another episode of Docs Outside the Box . I am your host , dr Nii , joined by the habitual line stepper , also known as my lovely wife , the amazing OB-GYN locum tenens .
Pre-med strategist .
Pre-med strategist . Pre-med strategist Semi-okay co-host , dr Vernet .
Jazzy hands .
It was good . Everyone Listen , it's been a minute . We've been gone for like two weeks , three weeks , because life has just been lifin' that's it . That's the best way I can explain it . Guys , I look tired . We've been consistent for well over close to what eight years now doing this podcast .
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¶ Renting vs. Owning
Yes .
Because let me tell you .
We're changing things up a little bit .
We changing things up a little bit . I really , when you called me at work and we had that little dance off , I won .
Hey Alfred , can you put in real quick ?
Roll the reel , just put it right here and just show that video . Roll the reel , Alfred , because I beat your ass .
Thank you , yeah , you did , you beat me at that yeah , and that's fine and that's okay , guys , I have no problems with that . You're a better dancer than me . That's fine and it's good . Yeah , you know , it's all good . That's good , like , have no problems with that , you're a better dancer than me . That's fine and it's good .
Yeah , you know it's all good , that's good , like I'm cool with that . Yeah , I'm very secure , you're secure , I'm very secure , you have no choice but to be , because there was no way .
There was a couple of people , like two people , who were like , how much Like $20 goes a long way .
That was my burner account . Guys , that was my burner account . Yeah , $20 goes a long way .
You probably paid them $20 each to vote for you .
I'm like really Hold on , but let's transition to something that can test how secure you feel about certain things , and that's the topic of this episode , actually , which is yo . How is it that two folks in their mid to late 40s are still renting ? Their primary residence and don't own a home .
Let's jump into this Because I think a lot of folks are very interested as to why , particularly a two physician household right . A two physician household , no debt .
Why the hell do y'all still rent ? Yes , because , technically , owning a home is the American dream . Yes , it is .
Yes , it is the american dream so there's a there's a lot of ways that we can go with this . Um , I think that for the sake of this podcast listen , we're not going to give you straight numbers for this , because I think you can go anywhere to get the numbers .
I think that what you tune into docs outside the Box is for , like that visceral raw , what two docs go through and how we feel about purchasing a home , or how we purchase or , excuse me , the mindset of why we decide to make certain type of financial decisions , all of the stuff that goes into spreadsheets and all those different things .
You can go to other people for that and , as a matter of fact , I have a video that you can go to . We're going to put in the show notes . It's Ramit Sethi's video that's going to be in there . He talks about why , as a multimillionaire , he actually still rents at this point right now . It's actually a pretty good video .
A whole bunch of different financial gurus got a chance to take a look at it and review it and so forth . I looked at it . It makes sense . There's some things that I'm kind of like . Eh , I don't agree with everything , but overall it makes sense . So I figured that before we , you know , get into the meat and potatoes .
We kind of start off with some stats or at least some things that we do . That , you know , just give people a little bit of a background of kind of how we live , so that people can kind of understand , like , why we move and the way we move .
The way we move basically , did you ever think so wait before we start that ? When you were , like , let's say , in med school or before med school , did you ever think that you would own your own home ? And at one point you actually did own your own ?
home . That's part of what I'm going to be talking about . Yeah , so what was your thought process ? Goddamn house man . What part of what I'm gonna be talking ?
about yeah , so what ? What was your thought process ? What was your thought process about when you were this age ?
what age ?
I'm 45 right now yeah , what was your thought process about owning a home back in the day , like in med school ?
yeah , if you were like oh mad , traditional , traditional . Like come on , like right , like married kids , house you know somewhere in either New York or New Jersey and just working , that's it .
That's all I thought about , or , excuse me , that's not all I thought , but that is the thought in my mind , which was a very traditional the American dream and making it work . I had no idea Like this is completely , almost as close to 180 degree .
This is 180 degree yeah .
Yeah , because I wasn't expecting to live like this . How about you I ?
mean most definitely . I definitely thought I'd be living , you know , in a house that was owned , you know , by me and my husband . You know , 2.5 kids , you know , and I didn't know . Then made it , made that quote unquote transition in my mind a little bit easier . You know , knowing , knowing what , I know now yeah .
It made it a little bit easier for me to be like OK , I'm not necessarily going to have , you know , the home that I thought that I would have .
So , folks , we live in a neighborhood where the home average price is home prices average around like $650,000 to like $750,000 . Like for me that's still a big deal to me because no , you cheap though .
I'm cheap and these houses are not 650 to 700 000 houses , so just for the caveat y'all in the zillow they are yeah , they are , but , as everybody knows , like everything got skewed during covet and after covet and we live in a neighborhood , in my opinion , where these are a bunch of 200 000 , 300 000 houses and300,000 houses and because of COVID , the prices
are jacked up to wherever they are right now and it just bothers me that you got to pay these prices to be in these houses that you got to go in and you're going to have to fix the basement . You're going to have to fix the water heater .
You're going to have to fix you only got to fix the water heater .
These houses are jacked . It's the water heater . These houses are jacked . These are just regular houses and they're like at these prices . I don't like that . Anyway , the school district is good , right . Why are you giving that a look ? What's the rating against ?
No , no , I mean the rating .
I mean the way how you feel about the way how I feel about the houses being $600,000 to $700,000 , and I don't feel like that's the actual value . Is that the same way you feel about the school district ? Because the school district , if you go on the website , it's saying what it's a right .
Is yeah , ours is a well . The school specifically is a minus , but the school district is an a yes .
Okay , so do you want to go into further than that ? I mean you know Some of the parents . They'd be watching this show Well so .
I am from the Catholic school system , so this is my well , technically , my second encounter with the public school system . My first encounter with the public school system was that I was a teacher in it , but this is my second encounter with the public school system Now having my child actually go through it .
And now that I'm on the receiving end of the public school system . I got some questions .
You think it's kind of lax . That's what it is , yeah .
Yeah , yeah , you know , coming from the Catholic school system , like I , in in the home , inside the home , we are the Catholic school system , but then I send without the religion guys , then I send my kid to the public school system and it's let's just say it's a little bit different expectation .
Diversity is meh Right , that's the best I can say . Diversity is meh , and it that's the best I can say . Diversity is meh , and it's a typical New Jersey suburban neighborhood .
Yes , that's as close . It's a very nice neighborhood .
And property taxes are kind of high . Right , we don't live in Essex County , but if anybody who's familiar with the Northeast knows about New Jersey and Essex County and Bergen County , y'all know that the property taxes are crazy . This ain't Maplewood , this ain't Milburn .
If you're listening to this podcast and you don't live anywhere in the Northeast , just type in Essex County property taxes . You know what I'm talking about . Big selling points to living in this neighborhood Good school district , rental costs aren't bad and it's close to my parents , right , which is very important .
Close to my parents and my family , which is New Jersey based and actually not too far from Long Island , where your family is Definitely good travel distance . Yeah , so accessible to New York and New York City . And , as of this date , right now , renting is about of our net income right , which ain't bad which is not bad , and don't forget y'all we are .
we are not w-2 employees , we work as locum tenants . So we get a certain amount of income from what we work from um , from the uh , independent contracting , and then we have an s corporation and then that s corporation pays us a salary and then from that we have a reasonable salary and then from that that's how we get paid .
From that Um it's 15% of our net income .
Let me go from there .
Yeah , so let's jump into it , their American
¶ Owning a Home
dream . So yo , your boy , had a home from 2006 to 2019 . Is that when I had ? No , when did ?
I get rid of it . No , nii , you got rid of it before we moved from Pennsylvania . It was in 2019 , was it ?
Yeah , it was like 2008 . Anyway , I had a house for well over 10 years . I bought the house right before 2008 . And I didn't have any money down . I didn't have anything for collateral and this is when anybody , particularly in Atlanta and Georgia , could get any type of house . So I bought myself a .
It was a condo townhome three bedrooms , three and a half baths . It was nice , spacious and I'm not going front . Owning this house was amazing . I could make the payments Right . My I forgot how much I got paid as a resident , but it was less than fifty thousand dollars . I had no problems making the payments .
But what I noticed on a month or , excuse me , on a yearly basis is that my HOA fees started creeping up , oh yeah . Eating more into my income and then overall , you know , by the time second year came , I still only had a couch , you know , a dining room table .
And a bed .
And a bed and a bunch of Popeyes and Pepsi and butter in the refrigerator . In essence , I was house poor . I just didn't know it and I couldn't put , I couldn't put , I didn't . I didn't have the I didn't have the wording to say it . But I was house poor because I didn't have money to buy furniture .
First I didn't have money to buy furniture . First , I didn't even have time to buy the furniture also . Well , I mean , you're a surgery resident .
Yeah , I didn't have time to get it so , but it wasn't the , it wasn't a . I liked the privacy of having my own place . Yeah , I liked having my parents know that I had a house , but they damn sure didn't know the financials of when and today I wouldn't let them know about any of that stuff .
And then you know , 2008 comes , 2009 comes , and you're seeing everybody with either for sale signs or possibly even foreclosure signs in front of your house and I just see the dwindling value of my house in comparison to their houses .
It's just like yo , like I spent $170 , spent 170 on my place and I think at one point there were several houses across the street that were going for like 49 000 . I was like , hey , yo , what ?
yep , but that's what it makes sense to be nosy , you know the nosy neighbor like . So how much you selling your house for ?
and I bought this house , not even thinking that I'm gonna leave for residency .
You selling your house for , and I bought this house not even thinking that I'm gonna leave for residency .
Right , right , like residency is gonna be done like I knew I and even at this point in residency I knew that I wanted to get back to new york . But when 2011 comes and I'm like , oh , I'm gonna do fellowship or possibly may just go back home . Either way , I'm not gonna be in atlanta what am I gonna do with this house ?
so you never , you never thought I'll buy the house and then I'll sell it .
No , oh yes , but I didn't think I was going to be selling that quick . I just didn't think about it because everybody was getting a house . This is one of the worst decisions I ever made in my life , because I didn't use any . I didn't run any numbers .
This is purely emotional , this is purely keeping up with the Joneses and um , we recovered from it , but it just wasn't a smart decision . And you know , fellowship came .
I was in miami and I got the place rented and then the tenants decided you got the place destroyed so my place got turned into a rented , but it was destroyed , basically got turned into a bar and we can get into another episode , but basically tenants from hell and it cost me about four to five grand to get that place fixed up .
But while in Miami I was using credit cards to make the mortgage payments because they weren't paying rent . Yes , you were it was bad and then afterwards , about two years later , we ended up getting some good tenants and ended up turning out good .
So several years later we ended up refinancing Right and we got a good value on it , but it just it was never the same . Let's leave it to you like that . It was never the same . So we became or I became an accidental landlord and we just you know we had some OK tenants , didn't , I , didn't do ? Let's just say it wasn't the , it wasn't a lucrative .
It wasn't a lucrative rental right like it didn't put . It didn't put money in our pockets , it was just I sold it . Could you pay this mortgage ?
I sold it for 140 000 . Right , we bought it for 170 . Well , I bought it for 170 because it's mine . It's mine what's yours ?
bought it for 170 . You can have your your little , you know financial dump .
You could , you have it and I bought and I sold it for 140 000 and that was it and for a while I had a really bad taste with buying a house and , to some extent , like that , stayed for a while you know that stayed for a while . So so that's my experience with owning a home . Am I completely against getting a house ?
No , but I think through these next set of questions , I think you know you guys will get a better sense of how we think about it . I think if you are a resident , I think if you're a medical student , you don't know the town . You've never been to this place before .
I think the most important thing is to just rent your first year and maybe even rent your second year , you know , just rent your entire residency .
If , if you don't know the neighborhood very well , if you don't see yourself kind of moving on past that you don't know the neighborhood very well , if you don't see yourself kind of moving on past that , if you're going to own , and maybe you have some financial means , maybe just consider doing like you know , like a duplex , where you live in one portion of
the house and then somebody else lives in another apartment in the house and a portion or a significant portion of their rent is paying for the overall mortgage .
I think that situation , if you're smart about it , if you're on top of the numbers , if you're a good landlord , you know what I'm saying , like you , can make some really smart decisions that , like you know , being a resident and being a landlord , you know , depending on , depending on your residency , can be very challenging , can be very challenging , you know .
It can be very challenging because when the water heater breaks or electricity , something's going on with that , there's a leak , you sitting there in the OR retracting , and there's an emergency , you need to think twice about whether or not you want to be the actual person , the point of contact .
So it still might be worth it , if you're going to do that to get a property manager , because , yeah , you can't be in the OR talking about buzz here , buzz here . Hold on , I got to pick up my phone . What you said ?
The toilet's not flushing .
The toilet's not flushing . Wait what there's a leak . Wait what ? What is a flood like ?
yeah , and a property manager . If you don't know what it is a property manager is . You pay someone to manage your property . Basically , they collect the rents and they make sure . If there's any maintenance issues going on , they take care of that .
And let's say you have a vacancy they help advertise , market your place to make sure that it can get rented and usually the average is what like 10% of the rent yeah , about 10% , 10% of the rent that they collect .
8 to 10% yeah , 8 to 10% of the rent .
So that's something to think about .
So wait , hold on , hold on , hold on . Let's talk about real , real , real quick . What kind of resident would be OK , not having a property manager ?
What do you mean ?
Dermatology . I'll go first Dermatology . What are they doing ? They're not doing nothing . They're not doing anything , right ? Oh , hold on a second . I've got to stop writing this prescription for steroid cream to take this freaking phone call .
Like , just because we have a great schedule and we have these beautiful faces , people are taking us seriously . I mean , I can look at a spot on your skin , like that thing you have on your cheek , and diagnose some rare disease that no one would be able to diagnose . Wait , what I just want to be appreciated . Wait , just back up a second .
Dermatology Go you next .
Who would be good to manage their own property ?
Yeah , Come on man .
I'd say orthopedic surgery .
Orthopedics .
Nah , they're in the OR though , yeah but they know how to do all that shit . They're basically doing carpentry in the goddamn , or they can fix all the issues Once I finish this leg .
I'm going to go and fix this toilet with the same tools that I was fixing this leg with . Thank you , this is true . Kill two birds with one stone . Who else ?
You go back .
Who else Radiology ?
What are they doing ? Why do you have like five different screens ? I know why Because one of the motherfucking screens you . I know why Because one of the motherfucking screens you got your goddamn day trading going on and you also managing properties .
Exactly , and you watching the show , ain't you ?
You subscribe to Docs Outside the Box , ain't you ?
They're actually looking . Yes , you are , I love it .
I love it . You're listening to Docs Outside the Box , you radiologist .
They got cameras in there .
Clinically correlate this show . Mother effer , please got the nerve to be all upset and everything they say is clinically correlated , shut up , basically , yeah so radiology one more , one more you're , you're next
I'm next . Yeah , you're next .
I said radiology ob stop playing , don't you wish you know them ob's . All they do is just like wait . I mean what , how much ? All you do is just deliver , right , okay , a laparoscopy here and there , and then you call surgery for backup .
Whatever , and then y'all disappear out the OR Name somebody for real , for real . Stop playing Opto Opto .
Yeah , that's what they say and all of them are in your career . You've seen patients your age or younger get seriously injured , have a long term illness or even have a mental health issue that affects their ability to work . Now , what if that was you ? No , for real . What if that was you without disability insurance ? How are you going to replace your paycheck ?
If that was you Without disability insurance , how are you going to replace your paycheck ? In episode 176 , jamie Fleissner of Cephalife Insurance explains why the best time to buy disability insurance is during your residency .
Most people , most physicians , acquire their disability policies during residency , and there's several reasons . First of all , when you're younger , you're able to obtain the insurance because they ask you a whole host of medical history and so you usually don't get healthier over time . Usually , you get less healthy over time .
So when you're healthy , it's easier to acquire the coverage . Number two , it's also less expensive because it's based on your age and your health . You're not getting younger or healthier over time , so you're at the ideal time .
The earlier you get it and the younger you are , the less expensive it's going to be . So , whether you're a resident or you're an attending , it's never too late to protect your income . Renee and I , we use Set for Life Insurance to find a disability policy that fit our needs and budget . So what are you waiting for ? Check out setforlifeinsurancecom Once again .
That's setforlifeinsurancecom .
¶ Reconsidering Success and Homeownership
Is success measured by getting your own home ? Do you consider that a form of success ?
I don't anymore , anymore .
When did that change I ?
would say , um , that probably changed in 2008 . When I saw what the hell happened with your house , I was like we weren't even talking back then . Yes , we were Like stop playing Anyway .
We definitely wasn't talking about my financials no , but we were talking about the fact that the house across the street sold or was selling houses houses were selling for fifty thousand dollars and I knew how much you had bought your house for I told you that of course you did . You don't remember .
Actually , back in the day you don't remember , I actually tried to buy a condo in new jersey . You don't remember ? Yeah , I actually tried to buy a condo in New Jersey .
You don't remember ? Yeah , I remember .
I tried to buy a condo in New Jersey and I don't remember exactly .
It was like $150,000 , and now you're like , damn , but it was an apartment though .
Yeah , it's not like a regular condo , this is an apartment .
Well , I mean technically .
You nowadays . Nowadays , condo means just about anything , Because people be front and be like oh , yeah , I got a condo .
No , we're not talking about that . This was an apartment like 7J .
Listen , listen , listen . Nowadays condo means just about anything . Back in 1980s condo was like ooh like . It was like luxury . Now a condo is like a regular apartment .
It was a regular apartment .
It was a regular apartment .
So when did you start ? When did you so ? 2008 is when you were like ah yeah 2008 .
I was like , ooh , that's kind of messed up , Because you don't remember we used to go around the neighborhood Right before 2008, . You used to take me around the neighborhood . You took me to see all these houses in Atlanta and they were like dirt cheap .
And I was like man , you could get this nice craftsman style four bedroom , three and a half bathroom house for this much . And then all of a sudden , everything just dipped down in 2008 .
And I was like , oh , that does not sound like the American dream , yeah , I think for me definitely was when , by the time we got married , we put our finances together , we realized how much student loan debt I was like .
I was like , yeah , we don't have time to buy a house right now yeah and where we ended up working was a place that I was like I don't want to stay here right right and I think that's going to be the recurring theme for me is like yeah I don't know if I have commitment commitment issues with , like where I live yeah but like , if I'm not like in love
with the place yeah , I'm not gonna buy it .
Yeah , no , I agree . I just , I don't know , man , you know like people were asking us like oh , you guys gonna get a house . I'm like , we got a house . It's called student loan debt .
Yeah , I , just $62,000 I can't do it , couldn't do it . So those first several years of us trying to figure out how we're gonna do , how we're gonna pay off our debt , as well as like is this really a place that we want to stay ? like , more than 10 years . No , yeah , no .
So I think for us , or at least for me , like my gauge of success kind of changed and , um , so you mentioned what people would say to you like so was there any point where you cared about what other people thought about the fact that you were like renting who ?
are you talking to ? Who are you talking to ?
what about your parents ? Did your parents ask you like ? Are you no ?
no , my parents never asked that question . They never asked . I mean , I don't think that my I don't think that my parents necessarily um equated success with buying a house . Um , if , if they ever asked me , I think they if they ever asked me , I think they if they ever asked me . So I can't say that I remember that they did or didn't .
What I will say is that if they ever asked me , it was more to gauge where I was going to live . You know where I was going to just put down you know those roots . So are you going to stay in Altoona , for example ?
Yeah , I have a colleague right now whose daughter he kind of gets on his daughter all the time because he says that she's wasting money all the time and she's paying , she's paying her owners or her landlord's mortgage so like he's trying to like push her into getting a home and stuff and he's , you know , in his early 60s , possibly even mid 60s , right now ,
and he's pushing , you know , in his early 60s , possibly even mid-60s right now , mm-hmm , and he's pushing her to do that . I've never got that type of pushback from my parents , right , but also at that time , while we were just getting married , like we still owned that house in Atlanta .
Yes , we did so , they were just like .
We don't know what you're doing with it , but we know you own a house somewhere . Do I care what others think about renting ? Do ? You , no , I don't , no , I don't . But even at this point , right now , do you care who ?
are you talking to ?
I'm talking to Renee , my wife , the habitual line stepper .
So you know that in order for me to care what people think is like way far away from my personality , it's almost sociopathic .
Like child , like Chris Rock type , because he has an issue with like understanding .
No , no , no , I didn't say that Because you are a habitual line stepper . Anyway , I didn't say I don't understand social cues . What I said was I don't really care what people say social cues . What I said was I don't really care what people say .
Listen , if you're , if you are not the one supplying the money in my pocket , the food in my mouth , the clothes on my back , the roof over my head , why do I even care what you have to say ? For what reason ? yeah for social pressure like , oh , let me get this house , otherwise people gonna say people gonna say what she got a house .
They're not even thinking about me yeah , I think the bad taste in my mouth from the previous owning experience throw that in with , like the realities of getting married , putting in a whole bunch of debt then also the realities of realizing like hey , my career , like a lot of that , is dependent on other people , depending on like how much power I give them , and
a lot of that is dependent on other people , depending on , like , how much power I give them , and a lot of that has to do with financial . I think that just changed everything for me .
Yeah .
And I really stopped caring about keeping up with the Joneses and I just was like yo , like this is going to be my life , and some of the things that became really important to me was , if I'm going to practice , I would love to practice in neighborhoods that really need my help , so rural neighborhoods , suburban neighborhoods .
Practicing in Ghana that type of experience is really important to me .
Getting out of debt , obviously , like helping those who are doing things that are really passionate to me Podcasting , right Raising a family , teaching like really smart financial tips to my kids as well as to the rest of my family those are really important things and kind of where I set up roots .
Really , even to this till now has kind of fallen , you know right , it's like it's on the back burner .
It's somewhere .
Yeah , because I think somewhere back there because I think right now it's just like well , like yeah , I mean , you know , like if anybody who lives with us or anybody who knows us like I like this neighborhood , I don't know if I love it and I think you know , after doing a lot of the numbers , doing research , like for me , I just I can't see myself
purchasing a home and knowing that we're probably gonna leave in less than 10 years . right for me , like that 10 year number is just like that number , like if we can see ourselves getting past that number , if we can see our kids in this neighborhood at the age of 17 going to their proms and all those different things .
I don't know if I can really see that here . I mean , yeah and that's not . It's not like an indictment on this neighbor . Right , right , it's just like I just don't know At this point right now where we stay . I don't know if I want to stay for 10 years .
Well , I think part of it also is that you and I really like being mobile .
Okay , so yes . So what does that mean ?
So I think we like knowing that we have the flexibility of getting up and just going anywhere we want at any particular point in time , and we want to be able to make that decision without being hamstrung by whether or not we could sell our house for a good price .
OK , so over the last what three to four years like that , or , to be honest with you , since we've gotten married ? To now that's close to 10 years .
Yeah that we've been married 10 years . We've been married for 10 years . That's close to 10 years , yeah .
That we've basically Well , we've been married 10 years . We've been married for 10 years . We've rented for 10 years . Yes , there's never been a situation where we had to pick up and just get the hell out of there .
Correct .
Right .
Correct . I think we just are in love with that notion .
Okay , so what I want to ask you cost to being less flexible ?
or so what I mean ?
flexible meaning what so if less flexible means that you own a home , right , the way how we look at it , right , right , but what about the opposite ? Is there a cost to being very flexible ? Right , because I'm not gonna front guys . If you look at our house , if you look at the decorations and all that stuff , what decorations ? Exactly , it's very bare .
You know what I'm saying . It is very bare in our house . There's a couple of pictures up and I think part of that has to do with the fact that we feel like it's not our house . So I think , as much as we really like being flexible , as much as we always feel like , hey , we can kind of move on to the next thing .
Is there that cost of ?
not having like the homeliness feel of the house
¶ Renting vs Buying
now . We could do that right , of course there's time to do that listen , there's plenty , but I do think that there's a reason why we don't put a nail in the wall , because we want that shit to break and I want my fucking security deposit back right , I think .
I think you're asking my line . No , I think you're absolutely right . I think that there are some people who that's actually what gets them in trouble when they rent is that they're like this is mine and I'm going to treat it like it's mine , so I'm going to paint the walls red . I'm going to do all these things .
I'm going to drill a hole that goes from one floor to another floor and run my cable through it . And then I'm going to change the garage into a damn freaking club bar .
But I'm not triggered .
Let's move on .
Right , so I think that does get people in trouble .
That's some bullshit , though , yeah .
But I will tell you , as someone who grew up , who lived in a place where her parents were the landlord her parents were the landlord that I understand the implications of messing up a rental property , right , and that that , to me , is , you know , that's always in the forefront of my mind .
Right , because I treat for me , I'm like I'll treat the property as if it is mine to a certain extent , meaning I'm not going to destroy some other person's property because , well , this ain't my house anyway , well , that's you .
But there's a lot of people who don't feel that way . There's a lot of people who don't feel that way . They'll be like , well , it's not my house , right .
So they go and they just essentially destroy your property . I would never I don't even know how someone could do that ?
Who takes doorknobs when it's time to leave a property ? Who takes doorknobs ?
Who lets their dog pee all over their carpet .
Yeah , I just Disgusting .
I don't even know how those people lived in your house like that . I'm going to go over Pigs .
I would say definitely Pigs , pigs . I would say . I think there's a fear that we have . There's like this visual thing that we have , like yo , if I stay , excuse me , if I purchase this house , then I won't be able to do a , b , c or d . Yeah , now , one thing , everybody .
it's not like we don't own a home , right we own we actually own a rental property , which is a six unit property that we talked about this several you know what two or three years ago . Yeah , we talked about that and , as a matter of fact , we need to revisit that , that conversation right , there's a lot on the back burner for that .
Yeah , we have a multifamily property in Pennsylvania . We're currently having getting it rented and you know it's been a very interesting experience that we're going to talk about . But we own that Right . So that's a property that is an investment property , Right .
Then we also just purchased the apartment in Ghana Right , Because I just want to let y'all know I want to do a sabbatical eventually .
Where we go to Ghana , I spend either a year or two years and we either practice or we don't practice , but we are there , immersed , and we are living in Ghana and at that point , like I just didn't want to , I didn't want to rely on family for for that long , so I wanted to get my own place .
And then I , we did the numbers and we looked and we realized that , hey , this is possibly a place that we can make actually an investment property also . So that's kind of how we're looking at it . So it's not just we're just renting and that's it .
Right , yeah , there's , there's more . It's more to the story , right ? So the question of you know , are you pouring into someone else's pocket , right , when you are renting ? The answer is maybe , yeah . You know that . That's definitely one way that you can look at it .
But another way that you can look at it is that I'm not responsible for the expenses of the place in which I live . And if I'm not responsible for those expenses , perhaps I can it . That will allow me to be able to save , to be able to purchase investment properties .
So there's a like . The New York Times has this calculator . That's really good , right it's . They made it like in 2014 , but it's still . All you have to do is , like you change one number here , you change a couple of numbers there , it's a calculator and it provides basically the answer of should you rent ?
and should you buy specifically in your neighborhood .
When you put all of that information for us , you know specifically , like the average cost of houses , the percentage rate right now for mortgages , and then you know all of these different things , like if you wanted to rent , you know past five years or whatever four to five years , and then there's just a lot of costs that go along with owning a home that are
basically called like phantom costs .
Did you put us in there ? Did you put our stuff in there ?
Yeah , so basically he said that for where we live we should rent if we can get a rental , basically , if our rent per month is $3,400 or less which we're way under .
Yeah , we're way under Right .
Yeah , we're way under that . So that made me feel good , but it also let me know how expensive this neighborhood is Right , right . Right , but the phantom cost of owning a home , like the maintenance costs , property taxes . That's why I mentioned these things , for school taxes .
School taxes Different than yeah .
Yeah , there's a lot of things that you got to worry about sometimes that you don't think about . That , you know , affect not just the purchase price of the home .
And then if you're thinking about it as an investment like I think we all in general now are starting to think differently about a house , right as it being like this big , large investment property or just an investment in general , to now more of like yo , this is just a purchase basically .
And I think the thing that I looked at that Ramit Sethi's video and I agree with he's going to get a house , but he knows that getting the house is a bad investment , but he's just getting the house because he knows that this is what he wants to do . He wants to set up roots in his neighborhood . And that's the way I look at it .
Like , if we're going to get a house , I know that I'm not getting it for an investment . I'm getting it because I'm like look , we all right , the kids they , but so we ?
so I get that . You know , looking at a house as an investment , that's pretty much what we've always been taught , right , like . So even if you get your American dream house , the first thing that they say is , oh , that's a really good investment , it's a really good investment . But the question is , exactly what are you investing ?
Is investing only about money , right ? Because there's also a value . There's also a value in living , right ? And that's kind of what you were talking about earlier of . You know , maybe that's why we haven't fully decorated our house the way that we would have , because that value of living it hasn't quite peaked for us .
Whereas if we were living in our own house and we were able to decorate it , do whatever we want , remodel it , make it look exactly the way that we want , there is a value in living in the house and having a comfort of living in that house . In a certain way . You see what I'm saying .
Yeah , then you won't want to leave .
Right , then you won't want to leave , but you have the comfort of a home . Knowing I own this . I could do whatever I want to it . I could destroy it if I wanted to . I could live in it however I want to . I could deck it out if I wanted to . Nobody can tell me anything about this .
I think that's part of the reason why I don't necessarily love a neighborhood , because I'm always one foot in , one foot out yes , but there have been this is therapy .
Y'all this is therapy holy shit breakthroughs there have been neighborhoods where you have said I could live here like where in atl .
Atlanta , oh yeah .
I mean .
It's Atlanta .
I know , but there have been certain neighborhoods in Atlanta where you've said that and there was a nice Waffle House there , oh Jesus , they get it smothered and covered , sliced and diced .
If you live in Atlanta or if you're from Atlanta , or if you've been to a Waffle House , you know exactly what I'm talking about that Waffle House culture . Hey , come on yo .
Good food . What Nice fight . What , what Some twerking , what it's all good , hey .
Music playing .
Yes , yes , yes , there's only one neighborhood in New Jersey that you've said you absolutely would live .
It's too expensive to live there Right . Expensive to live there Right .
Well , no , I should say two neighborhoods , two neighborhoods , but they're adjacent to each other Too expensive to live in Hell .
No .
But you said , in terms of comfort level , I'm talking about yeah , it's like living in Brooklyn .
Value of living . It's like living in Brooklyn , right , yeah ? So I'm talking about value of living that you would say With a house . What page are you on ? I would like to get a home soon . I'd like to just settle roots eventually .
So no .
After sabbatical After sabbatical so no , I don't want to get a house yet .
You're right .
I don't want to get a house . How about you ?
You're talking about like five years .
Yes , from now . Yeah , I think , when I'm 50 . Which for you is two months what we got AARP over here .
Anywho .
Can't wait to go to IHOP with you . Listen , let me get that . What do you call that ? The All Star Slam , or is that from Woff House ? Let me get the ARP discount on sis right here . Whatever , Anywho . Once you hit 50 , we can start doing catch up rates On our IRAs .
It's your old ass , go ahead , move on Anyway , but once you hit 50 , we can start doing catch-up rates on our IRAs .
It's your old ass . Go ahead , move on , anyway , nene . So , as I was saying , I still love you though , man , I know you do , I still love you .
¶ Renting vs. Homeownership
As I was saying , I don't know . I mean , I think I , I don't know , I'm kind of on the fence .
I would like to have a place that I could come in and just have that value of living Right , have that value of , you know , being comfortable to be able to do whatever I want to the place you know , and it looking exactly the way that I would want it to look .
So but do you ? Do you have to own a home to do that ?
So , but see , but as see , I have a mental block because my parents owned a home and rented to other people and I saw the things that I mean they sell commando strips . I know that , so you could I know that , but I'm talking about renovation .
Okay , gotcha Like I'm talking about renovation , yeah , yeah .
And I saw what other people did you know in my parents' home , and not all the tenants . Most of their tenants were really good , but there were some tenants that were like were really good , but there were some tenants that were like yo , like what's wrong with you people ?
yeah right , let me move the stove to this part .
Yeah , it's like what , what's ?
wrong with you ? Like what are you ?
doing so , I I have a literally a mental block , like even neutral colors that I would like to put in our home that we live in right now . Even that kind of gives me a little like angst of , yeah , but you know , is the landlord gonna like it ? Are they gonna take our security deposit ? You know , is that you know things like that right ?
Like , is it going to impact me financially ? Right , because if they don't like it , then that's a financial ding on yes , I'll be truthful with you guys .
here's my thoughts . I I hate renting , but I like renting Because I don't like dealing with the water pipe or whatever water thing going off . I like going to you and tell them can you text the landlord and let him know that the shit ain't working and I ain't got to deal with it . And don't call me .
And if the washing machine breaks or any of these things break , I don't want to deal with it . You are notorious , you of it . You are notorious . You handle it and take care of it and have them fix it , please .
You are notorious . I don't even think you know our landlord's name . Nope , I really don't , don't .
I kind of do actually , because I have to zell them the money .
Oh yeah , that's the only reason .
They're nice people and stuff , but I just oh yeah , I mean our landlord , but I hate renting .
I'm not going to front well then you wouldn't like buying either bed , because then you got to get to give the bank the money I know , but either way , I like renting .
So , guys , I'm conflicted . This is just the way I am . This is just the way I am . I would prefer , if we're gonna buy , I prefer to get a multi-family where one person you know one floor or another part of the house could be rented .
I , just at this point in my life , I'm not living , living with nobody , that .
If they paying half the rent they are or half the mortgage they are .
No , they literally would have to live in a separate unit , like somewhere in the backyard somewhere . And even that I'm kind of like no , at this point in my life I don't want to live in a duplex with somebody in a house that I own .
And I would say that definitely , where we live is a high cost of living , right . So one thing that folks who may be listening to this they're like , if they're living in the Midwest or they're not living in a high cost of living place , they may say just move to the next neighborhood .
It's like yo , slow down , you don't understand how it works in Jersey and stuff , right Like . The difference is either you move to another neighborhood , you send your kids to Catholic school , which is a grip , right , yes , or you go into public school and you ain't got to pay . No , you know , you don't have to pay nothing .
So that's why I'm like y'all , would you know what ?
that means .
So y'all need to chill with that if you judging us all right .
Like what's the grade on that one ?
Because we had to go to what do you call it ? My parents had to . Even though they paid a mortgage , they still had to send us to Catholic school to get a good education . So don't front , if you don't understand New York and New Jersey or other high cost of living areas and how you can't just move to one neighborhood to another stop front don't judge us .
But so for me , I think the key thing for us is we max out our 401ks , we max out our IRAs , we max out our HSAs , we save our IRAs , we max out our HSAs , we save money like crazy . We put money into our brokerage accounts .
For us , success looks different , like the ability to be flexible and mobile looks different , and I think for me , I just prefer our money to be working in a different way than currently , right now , which would be or , excuse me , than currently purchasing a house right now .
So I think , once we get back from the sabbatical , that we're not sure exactly when it's going to happen .
That might change .
Eventually , I think we might get something that might change .
Yeah , I mean , I think at this point I think I'm ready , knowing that we've maxed out everything else Right , like so you just kind of ran down all the things that we maxed out Right .
And so you just kind of ran down all the things that we maxed out right and so been maxing out , been maxing out , and I think that for me is kind of is that present continuous ?
what is that present continuous or something like that I , I don't know , but I think that that that's the key for me , because I think most people their first investment is first investment before they max out . Anything is actually their house . Like you could ask people do you have your own house ?
That's their first and their largest investment , but you might ask them if they got a 401k or a 403b , and the answer might actually be no , either no or they got money in there and it's not invested . Possibly .
Right and it's not invested or it's not maxed .
Yeah .
You know it's not maxed . Yeah , you know it's not maxed . So I think , for me , I like the fact that we kind of did it the opposite way , where the house .
You know , at least when we got married , that our first investment together as a married couple wasn't necessarily a house and then everything else fell by the wayside , because that house could really eat into all of the other things like your 401K , your IRA , your brokerage account , everything else .
It could really eat into your ability to be able to invest for the future in other ways .
What was our first investment together ? Ivf treatment . That's another episode .
¶ Renting vs Buying Home Discussion
Listen , y'all Burn . Listen , text us at 833-230-2860 . We're actually serious about that right now . We need your support , not your laughter . All right , listen , I'm Dr Nee . I'm joined by Dr Renee . We want to know what your thoughts are on renting versus buying . Listen , if you're a resident man , just stick to that rental life .
Don't play around , unless you know the neighborhood really well and you think that you may be able to get into a situation where you could do some house hacking with a multi-property type of thing , but listen , it's okay , 10 years out , for two docs like us to be renting particularly in a high cost of living area , and that's just the way how we think that's
just , and that's the way we roll , you don't judge us , all right . And if you live in a shade on anybody , and if you live in our neighborhood opposite way , if you live in our neighborhood and you're watching this video , listen , we're not . Come on , guys , don't come for us , all right , we love you all , it's just I just cancel us please .
I just got some commitment issues and stuff cancel uscel us . I like you guys . Let's make it work . Catch you guys on the next one . Y'all Do this . Peace , alfred , what up ? How you doing ? We back and we ready . We missed you , alfred . Alfred , did you miss us ? He's quiet , he's not saying anything . Back , alfred , talk to us . You all right ?