¶ Addressing Failure in Personal Statements
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Let us know what you like , what you don't like about the show and , ultimately , let us know who's winning these arguments , because I need to know that I'm beating Renee in these debates . Run the tape . We can't cover everything in this no , absolutely but I do want to ask you about someone who has had failure .
Yes , right , and I'm not talking about like , right , I'm not talking about generic failure , but like they failed the class or they may have flunked out and maybe they read , like how does someone create a story where , like , should they address it first , should they wait for someone to address it ?
talk to us about that so the first place that you should be addressing any type of failure that you have because this is going to show up on your application , whether you like it or not the first place that you should be addressing that failure is in your personal statement .
Okay , and people always ask the question should I address it in my personal statement or should I not ? And the the I always answer like but why wouldn't you ? right , because because you can't hide it right because they don't want to talk about it . But here's the question what if someone wants to talk about it ?
And the first time you ever thought about what you were going to say about this thing is during the interview . When somebody asks you tell me about why you took boards twice .
When you write it on your personal statement , that gives you an opportunity to really formulate what it is that you want to say If someone were to ask you that question it allows you to hash all of that out .
So what about that thought process of like well , you know me , failing the boards isn't really me , it was just a small blip and I don't want to be defined by that .
What if someone says that Because some people are like well , a lot of people would be like that . I would be like that , right . But I think that that's true , right ? I think that failing boards isn't necessarily an indictment on your character , right that's not what that is .
You'd have to get that person to get out of that mindset , though Correct . A lot of people feel that way .
Correct . But but the way that listen , if someone who is interviewing you thinks that failing boards is a part of you know is like a character flaw there's no way in a 15 minute interview that you are going to convince them . Otherwise , the only thing that you can do is make yourself comfortable with giving the answer that you're going to give .
Which is why I say hash it out in your personal statement answer that you're going to give .
Which is why I say hash it out in your personal statement , because when you're hashing it out in your personal statement , I will tell you that is the part of the personal statement that if you include that in your personal statement , you're going to write and rewrite that and rewrite that and rewrite that part a million times before you come up to the final
version . The reason that you're rewriting it so many times is because you need to hash out in your mind not just what you're going to say , but you need to hash out in your mind that this is not a character flaw and you need to get all of the emotion out of it so that you can just tell the story , tell what happened . I failed it .
Then I went back .
I did this , this differently , I did that differently and I came back and I rocked it so how do you , how would you bring that up in your let's say , you brought it up very small in your personal statement , right , or whatever it's brought up ?
It could be big , it could be small . I wouldn't bring it up big in your personal statement , but I would give it a little .
I give a little attention you threw your Maya Angelou , I rise and I rise . Phenomenal woman , right ? You did all that , right ? So now it's time for the interview , right ? Yes , so who's bringing it up ? You bringing it up in your story , for example , if I say , tell me about who you are right , is that coming up then ?
or are you not bringing it up and then kind of saying well , how do you show you know more than once , right , which is like okay , this is just not . You know something that you can absolutely ignore , right , if you fail boards three times ? it's right , you just fabric you , yeah , you just can't ignore it , like you might have to mention it .
But again , that's where you think about it over and , over and over and you hash it out in your personal statement very small paragraph . You don't want a whole half a page dedicated to how you fail board three times okay , but for the interview though but but for the interview that's what I'm saying it depends .
It depends , if you fail boards once and then you came back and you rocked it , it's like , okay , if somebody asked me about it , they asked me about it , they don't , then they don't what do they ask you about it ?
what , what you gonna say what ?
but that's what I'm saying .
You hash it out so how would you say it ?
I don't know I'm , I'm not . This is not my story make it your story . You just made a surgery story okay , so they looking for you for role play . Oh , my god , I don't want to talk about because my girl how many times you fail boards for real , and then I never fail boards okay that's no actually . I did fail one board exam , not in medical school .
I actually failed my written boards for OB , remember , and I went back the next year .
And you rocked it .
I don't know if I rocked it , but it was a pass-fail so I passed All right , so okay , can you play us through this as if you failed something in residency ? Or in residency , or sorry you , you failed something in medical school . Yes , your boards okay right .
Somebody asked you yes , okay , fine , fine , fine , all right , dr , dr renee , our student . Dr renee , that's a great to learn about you , but at uh , but at ducks outside the box surgery residency . You know , none of our previous candidates had any type of failure . They , they don't even know what that means . Why should we choose you ?
That is a very surgery question to answer .
Nobody's asking that type of question .
Yeah , you surgeons are okay . You surgeons are like that . Keep your hands to yourself .
Answer the question please . And they're not supposed to know what happens below the camera . None of y'all business . Move on , keep your hands to yourself .
So something let's say , for example , if I fail boards , sometimes people fail boards , you know , because there are distractions , you know , with family issues . You know because there are distractions , you know , with family issues . Sometimes people fail boards just because you know it was hard and you know , or they didn't know , how to study .
So , whatever your answer is , you know . For example , if you say , well , you know , maybe you didn't , you didn't realize how much time you needed to dedicate , you know , to studying , or you didn't have , you know , a strategy that worked well for you right , you might say that .
You might say that you know you were distracted , you know , because you had to take care of things at home . You know , maybe there was a sick family member and unfortunately your time got divided up and so you weren't able to really dedicate that much time .
But once you figured out that , you know , you figured out how to kind of get that , whatever that issue was off your plate , that you were then able to dedicate that time and be able to do well on boards . Right , important to follow up with . What did you do in order to solve that problem ? You can't just leave it all .
My grandmother was sick , so what happened was I had to , you know , take care of her , and you know , and then that's why I failed . You don't want to say that , right , you want to say something to the effect that you handle the issue . That was was the problem . And then you came back and how you handled . You know the process with going about .
You know the , the process with going about passing . You know the board .
It's almost like you have to be able to show a sense of maturity , right , because in any situation , maturity is you hand . You see either defeat or you see adversity , and then you handle it in whatever way , but you're able to look back and say , okay , this is what I've learned from this situation .
Right .
These are the mistakes that hopefully , if I see it again , I can steer clear of , and this is how I've become a better person from it .
What you don't want to do is make up . It's not running away from it , right ? You don't want to make excuses . You want to be able to say right , show your growth right be able to say right show your growth , right Show your process .
So it's like embracing the issue as opposed to running away from it , right I ?
mean , if you see that you did something wrong , then you could you know , or that you did something that was ineffective . You can essentially say you know what ? I tried this method and it actually didn't work for me . You know it wasn't effective . And so I came back really analyzed what worked for me , and then I .
And so I came back really analyzed what worked for me , and then I went on and did this process .
You know what ? The last question I have for you ? And they basically wanted to know how to leave a positive , lasting impression . So I'll leave that for you towards the end real quick because we're getting a little bit too long is the concept of rehearsal . Right Like mock interviews Right .
So mock interviews , storytelling how do you come off as not coming , as not being too rehearsed ?
Because you could be nervous , right , and telling a story to your friend is different than telling a story to someone that you never met before you , feeling like the eyes are on you yeah you don't want to sound like a robot a humina , humina , humina nobody knows what humina .
Humina is , then this um , which are millennials , gen z , do y'all know ?
but basically you're so nervous , you know you're just like . You know you're searching for words and so forth
¶ Effective Interview Strategies for Success
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Talk to us about that process so you can't tell your interviewer that you are nervous , right ? I mean , they expect you to be nervous , so you can say that you are nervous . There's nothing wrong with saying that . The other thing is again , stop and think . Let your interviewer know that .
You know , I want to collect my thoughts about this right , like the strengths and weaknesses that question . Ooh , yeah , before we end .
Make sure you get into that Address that the strengths and weaknesses question , right , sometimes people think they know exactly what they're going to say and then you're just kind of like you get there and you're like I don't know what the heck to say . Right , so you might want to collect your thoughts .
You can write something down you know really quickly , just so that , and you can say let may I collect my thoughts so I can just write down and make sure that what I say is clear and concise , right , and you can write down a quick , you know bullets .
Don't do it more than you know 30 seconds , so that the interviewer really you can take that long , so that the interviewer isn't really , you know , sitting there awkwardly , um , but one of the things you don't want to do is I care too much , like really , you know , you , you , you take something that is obviously a strength and try to turn it into a weakness .
I care too much , you know , I give too much . Like all right , say that you overextend yourself , right , like that's that's , you know , giving too much , or caring too much . I overextend myself , I I'm not good with time management , you know I'm . You know I don't know how to prioritize the things that I'm supposed to do . Right , like that .
That is actually caring and giving too much , like that's the real weakness . But you saying that you care and you give too much , there ain't no weakness , like come on .
So what are some good weaknesses , like beyond , like what are the weaknesses ?
It depends on what your actual weaknesses are , right .
Like if you have real weaknesses that you are working on , you just say like yo , I'm not assertive enough , I let people walk all over me .
Yeah , you could say that .
I mean that might be something that's a problem that a lot of people have Absolutely .
That might be something , right , that , hey , you know I let people walk all over me . You know I'm not a servant . Are you saying it like that though ? Listen , one thing that I've learned is you got to get , you have to have some level of comfort in your interviews , Right ? You might say you know honestly .
Or you might say , I've been told that and I see that in myself , right , that I'm not assertive enough and I do , you know , kind of , let people just kind of , you know , get away with things that they probably should not get away with , right and that's something in this surgery program they can build me up .
Yeah right , hold me up . Will you mold me ? Surgery program Will you hold ?
Fresh meat . So , yeah , right , Like that's important Surgery programs want to know kind of well again , why you , why do you think that you're going to be a good candidate for this program ? Right , Like that's what they want to know , and so that's what you have to put out there . You're constantly , constantly advocating for yourself .
So mock interviews how often do you think you should be doing them ?
So , so for mock interviews , you ask the question of you know doing a mock interview with somebody that you know versus somebody that you don't try to do mock interviews with somebody that you don't know , right ? So I get students who might ask me can you do a mock interview with me ? I don't really do residency mock interviews .
I will do more medical student mock interviews . That's what I'm more comfortable with but with , for example , I had a student the other day that I , you know , offered to do , offered her to do a mock interview with one of my mentors , right , because she doesn't know my mentor .
I've had medical students in the past do interviews with Dr Ayers , one of my mentors , and Dr Brugge , the other mentor , so , people that they don't know . I think that that's important .
That's how you might get comfortable with talking and telling your story to somebody that you don't know , and there's no risk in that , right , because that person is just looking out for you and making sure that you answer the questions appropriately . Right ? There's no right answers .
It's some wrong answers , but there's no right answers so how do you have them leaving with a positive impression of you ?
what's so ?
long-lasting thing like man . Wow , doctor , I think student dr Voni , she ain't gonna make , it't going to make it here .
But she'll make it somewhere else .
She'll make it somewhere else , Like how do you do that ?
So the way that you do that is you stick to your theme and you tell your stories and you know you advocate for yourself . I mean that , literally , is the entire formula , right .
It's the incremental things that you do , um , in the interview , right , every single question , you know hitting it so that it hits some part of that theme , so that that way when someone leaves , you know , when you leave the room , or you leave the zoom room or whatever you know , there's a story that sticks in that person's head . That is kind of the .
That's the story that in their minds , defines you . You know , like man , this student is really compassionate . She told this story about x , y and z . She never said the word compassion , she didn't say , oh , I'm so compassionate .
It's like you're not using buzzwords , buzzwords buzzwords .
Get them out . Right , that's the laundry list . Get the buzzwords out . Let tell me a story and I will tell you if you are compassionate . I will determine whether or not you're compassionate or whether or not you're a jerk .
Right , because I could come to that conclusion too I've had people tell me a story where I'm like oh , you're a real jerk that was my first time I told you the story . Like you ain't got to .
I'm not talking about you . I'm talking about the story that I told when Dr Love was on .
You sure it wasn't about me .
No , it wasn't about you . It was about I'll tell this story real quick a residency program for almost seven years , almost seven years , and he would get interviews every single year but he , for whatever reason , could not get land you know , land a spot .
And so he had been working , obviously , over those seven years , you know , doing X , y and Z , and you know medical students we don't work right as medical students but he was outside of that norm and so I guess he went to an interview where he had a friend who was in that residency program and the friend was , I think , going to get cronuts Remember when
cronuts was really big , remember and he was like , hey , you know , you want a cronut . And he's like , yeah , he pulls out a wad of cash and says get some for everybody . And he told me that story and I said that's why you didn't get into that program .
And he's like what do you mean ? That's ?
pretty pretentious , that's very pretentious . And I said that , right , there is a red flag . And I said I will tell you right now , if you came to my residency program and you did that , we would all rally against you not to come to this program . And he was like , oh , you're reaching .
And I said , listen , you can say I'm reaching , but I graduated from residency already . You trying to get in and I'm telling you what you did was not cool . I understand you think you're trying to be nice . I didn't do anything that bad ?
No , you didn't do anything that bad Right , but you know things like that and people watch , even when you're not in the interview .
So if you are doing in-person interviews , don't flip the bird off at somebody who cut you off in traffic because you don't know if that person is the person that you're going to meet with when you go to interview and get off that exit .
You know so Well . Vo Vincent , thank you very much for submitting that question .
You got an entire episode I know that was supposed to be this .
This was not supposed to be that long of an episode and this is Renee's bag , so be happy about that . So you see I didn't speak much .
I let her do what she had to do but listen , guys , we we really enjoy when you guys ask us questions , because you know that's the way in which we connect with you all , whether you are in attending or you are in training , or you're in the pre-med version or pre-health version of whatever you're going towards .
Shoot us some questions so we can answer some questions for you . We don't just talk locums . We talk a whole bunch of different things , but locums is our bag also so yeah , if we're getting into medical school and residency and interview and locums that will .
That's what we do , but you know , yeah , I mean you know also absolutely , you are you got talking to Mike yeah , I am .
you are either having or going to have had um the interview um with Christy Olson , but you know you're going to be talking um in that episode about just kind of interviews after , right after when you're finishing residency , and that's a very different type of interview process , right , that's a very different type of interview process and it just , you know , you
mentioned locums and that just kind of reminded me .
You know about the fact that we have this locums course upcoming and so if you're interested in doing locums , you know , certainly go to the link below and you know , sign up for , and you know , sign up for , you know , our little freebie that will allow you to get notifications when we are coming up with our locums course so that we can let you know .
You know , hey , if you ready to do locums , like you know me and dr me , and you ready to , you take freedom into your hands , um , we're , we're going to have something for you .
So locums helped our , our , our um marriage .
It did . Yeah , okay , that's another episode Cause . I would like to learn more about that .
Locums is the key to everything . All right , y'all , we're going to catch you guys On the next episode Of Docs Outside the Box . Yo VO . Thank you for submitting that question . We'll catch you guys On the next one , y'all , peace .