¶ Physicians Reflect on Healthcare System
What is it that you think that doctors are missing ? Since you've been on the other side dealing with insurance , I'm sure it denials people not listening , not having enough compassion .
I think that the medical education system and the healthcare system train the humanity out of doctors . The system is set up to treat pathology disease and that is all very important , but the thing is that people are not containers for pathology , they are people . So yes , treat the pathology .
That's what you're saying , yeah .
But don't only treat the pathology . Don't forget that you're treating a person .
It's a coping mechanism right . Even me as a trauma surgeon . I see literally people minutes from dying all the time . And it's like okay , I'll see you later . You move on to something else , but that patient , that family , they're still holding on to that .
There's a balance , is what I'm saying . It's not all or nothing . You can be an effective human and an effective physician .
Folks , your exciting new medical career it's just been hit with a serious illness or injury that stops you from earning a paycheck just when you need it most . Check out what Jamie Fleischer of SEPFA Life Insurance said back on episode 176 about having disability insurance early in your career .
The real reason to get it early on is really twofold . One is to protect your insurability . So if you are healthy and you can obtain the coverage , you also pre-approve yourself to be able to buy more in the future . So down the road , as your income does increase , you don't have to answer additional medical questions .
All you have to do is show that your income has increased and you can buy more benefits at that time . No medical questions asked .
Protect your income , secure your future . Check out SEPFALifeInsurancecom . It was good , everyone . This is another episode of Docs Outside the Box . I'm really honored , very excited to have Kristen , as well as William Flannery , also known as the Glockham Fleckens , also known as Lady Glockham Fleckens .
Dr Glockham Fleckens , I don't know how many syllables you're going to have in that , but you get so tired of saying that . Well , do you ? get tired of saying it Because I'm sure how many times you got to introduce yourself or you get introduced by it , and someone is messing that up .
I enjoy actually hearing other people try to pronounce it . That's a little joy of mine .
So you can see the nervousness in them . You did great . You see how many times they practiced it .
Yeah , that's right .
It does make people nervous .
Oh yeah , it just felt like it sounds , it's easy .
If you're German .
To an ophthalmologist Exactly .
You know it's and I think let's just start from there . You know I think that the jokes , the comedy skits , and I oftentimes blame you guys as the reason why my productivity goes down and stuff . Like I can't get anything done because I'm watching your TikToks all the time and I'm watching your podcasts right now all the time and stuff .
But I'm really interested because they always say what makes comedy so good is that there's a lot of truth . That's set in jest , right , Right . And the skits that you're doing right now , whether it's on insurance companies or residency or whatever , it is right , Like we're just in a different time with medicine right .
But if you were to , if someone were to ask you like in general , look what does your skits , what are your TikToks ? You know the reels . What do they say about medicine in general for physicians ? What would you say Are we in a good place ?
or bad place . I think I think we are at a turning point right now . I think that there's a lot of you know the old way that things have been done , that I think physicians have really participated in building the medical system that we have , like we're part of what we've built right .
But now you have a new generation of physicians that are early career trainees , med students . They're coming up , they're seeing all the problems in healthcare Part of that's because of social media and are , I think they know a little bit more the inner workings of how the healthcare system's functioning and what needs to change .
¶ Healthcare Advocacy in Social Media
And so I'm actually I feel hopeful . Honestly , I know it doesn't seem like that because I have this character , jimmethy , that has this the worst job in healthcare , which is working for UnitedHealthcare . But so sometimes my content can get a little depressing , but my goal isn't really to depress people .
It's like to be like , hey , look at this , look at this thing that we can change , and so I hope I leave people with at least a little bit of optimism .
I don't know about optimism . I think that's a stretch .
That's a stretch , a little bit of a stretch .
But it does point out like hey , this is actually pretty ridiculous . Well , because a lot of the things In an early effective way .
Yeah , well , and a lot of the things that With the healthcare system , like I didn't know . Some of these things , Like I didn't know that there was a ban on physicians owning hospitals , Like I didn't know . Yeah , yeah , there's a moratorium .
I knew to start the laws and stuff , but I didn't know you couldn't own a hospital stuff .
Really Wow . There are some physician-owned hospitals out there , but I forgot what year it was that this went in .
It's been like 20 years now , but there was a moratorium on any more hospitals being owned by physicians and there's a lot of corporate interests to keep it that way , as you can imagine , because United Health Care is buying up hospitals , private Equity is buying up hospitals , so they really don't want physicians to be able to own hospitals , but there's no good
reason for it . So it's topics like that that I came across just in trying to figure out , you know , some skits that I wanted to do and people email me and be like , hey , did you know that this is the thing ? Like you should do a skit on this .
So I get some of my ideas from people just emailing me and like the comments from my other videos , and so I really love those topics where , like , even healthcare professionals may not really know what's going on under the surface . You know that's where I really enjoy bringing in the education piece along with the comedy .
Yeah , and I think what's really interesting is the younger generation , because I'm like the last bastion of Gen X , right , like I'm 78 , right , so I'm like two years removed from being a millennial .
You're almost a millennial yeah .
Right , almost , can we claim ?
you , can we claim you If you want to .
You know I'll put my hand up , you know , but like I am like that last generation , that's kind of like that last , you know , those last years where it's just like I'm still close enough to be jealous of millennials but also , at the same time , I still feel like I can't exactly act like a millennial because I feel like something will happen to me , whether
it's been , you know , through what has been beaten into me through residency or even fellowship and so forth . So there's a level of almost like jealousy or just like , wow , that's really cool that you guys grew up with the internet or grew up nowadays , even , you know , younger than the millennials . They grew up just over sharing .
So the ability for them to talk about things and challenge things on social media , like that skill , like it I don't have that skill right , like they have that skill , and I think that's really great because that the folks who are even coming before them , they get a view of things that they may not necessarily got when I was training .
Right , it's just almost like everything is very gray , so to speak , and like hard wall . It's just about institutions and I think now , with what you're doing and what other people are doing in social media , like it really .
It's almost like you guys are bringing your own brand back into medicine right , where , like it's almost like you're walking around without , like the largest logo on your white coat is your hospital . But now it's like social media allows you to kind of separate yourself from that and put the brand on there so .
I think that we're in a very interesting time for that , you know so yeah , I think it's a it's , it's really focused on like making healthcare human again , right , and that's a weird thing to say in the time of AI , but what I mean is , maybe , maybe humane is a better way to say it of like , hey , we don't have to do it this way actually .
And I think that you know these systems that are so difficult . They thrive when people don't feel like they can talk openly about them , and so social media has been really useful in kind of breaking that wall and yeah , and letting people know how things really are and share with each other and have some transparency .
And then there's , you know , more power Within the people when you can do that .
Hey there .
Hi how you doing good , good , you got the kids to sleep .
I hope so .
If not , they'll be coming down here any second .
So If there is in there in the door , shut us , good enough .
That's what happens . So we get our editors to actually edit out the banging on the doors and stuff .
Yeah .
Yeah . So let's ask you guys a question , because I know you , you know the Super Bowl , just passing the stuff and you know I find it interesting
¶ Mahomes Fandom and Shared College Experiences
. Patrick Mahomes wins the Super Bowl Texas Tech . He didn't graduate from graduate from Texas Tech or he left early .
We both did . He spent two years there . Patrick Mahomes yeah , it's two years there but that's where you guys graduated from . Yeah , my adopted son Patrick Mahomes .
Don't even get him started , please . Oh my god , I love him so much . He is my Mahom boy , he's I think it's like an unhealthy amount of obsession .
I love him .
It's bad .
He's Jordan .
Problem .
Well , because , as a Texas Tech alum , obviously like anybody who went to Texas Tech has adopted the chiefs as their team , that being said any place that he went . If you were to switch to go to another team , I would follow Patrick Mahomes . Oh yeah , no , no , I'd wear green . Yeah , absolutely I'd wear whatever .
Whatever the color green is for the Jets , but anyway , anyway , big fan .
Anything Patrick Mahomes does has to be on our television . I was a mess during the Super Bowl though he had to leave the room I was so nervous I've been trying to explain this to Kristen because , she does not understand .
She doesn't have a competitive bone in her body , so she doesn't , you know .
I do , but not about sports or games .
So I was trying to explain fandom to her .
Yeah .
And , and I think it's just when you , you love a thing so much like . For me it's like I love Texas Tech . I really like that . We went there . I enjoyed our time . That's where we met is a big part of our lives .
Sure , and so With with Patrick Mahomes , like you have the most famous football player Like ever right now and the most successful football player , the brown one right . Oh my god , yes , that's , that's brown .
brown ball elongated kind of oblong With pig skin .
We've got two little pointy ends oh yeah , okay , right yeah .
So the fact that you have this person , who is such a huge ambassador To Texas Tech , yeah it's just that's partly why I love it so much , because , like he , he's the most famous person , one of the most famous people out there , and he went to the same college that we went to . That's that's . That's so exciting .
It's so romantic .
Right , I mean , I'm never gonna explain this to her .
I don't know almost as much as I love you , christy Well thank you Well , you guys share Texas Tech .
We should try to say we can't city because that's what we did our medical school . Yeah , so , yeah , yeah . So you guys are rooting for him too .
Yeah , no , now from there , after Texas Tech , you guys met , then from there you guys went to New .
Hampshire of all places . Yep , we did . Went to Dartmouth .
Dartmouth .
Yeah , we saw uh boost .
Yeah there's a noose we did see a few of those . Is that plural or ?
Meese .
My exactly so yeah , we spent five years up there .
Yeah .
Five years and then and then moved on to , to the place that has less snow but it's probably more cold Iowa , no . Iowa polar , we we've lived through several polar vortices .
But Dartmouth was so cold that we would walk in from the parking lot where the student parking was way out at the back . And you'd walk into your building and by the time you got there , your whole face is frozen , your nose hairs . It's here , ducks .
Heaven forbid .
You washed your hair before you came to school , right ?
There's a lot of you have bicycles and we we grew up in Texas , so it's like that's not that problem guys .
¶ Physician Reflects on Healthcare Challenges
You'd have been a little windchapped , I think , though .
Let me look , because I , we , me and renee , we're talking about this , talking about you guys , before the episode began and you know like when she came down the aisle my heart almost stopped right Me , like my heart almost stopped . But damn , I ain't never heard we're joe like I ain't never heard of a girl kickstarting your damn heart .
Sheesh . Well listen , we got two little kids in the month before we had taken on a mortgage . So this , I wasn't about to let him get off that easy .
Oh no you don't exactly . You get back here finish what you started . That's right , right , exactly , wow , so this is wild .
So from you know , obviously on a serious note , like testicular cancer , twice cardiac arrest , after what ? 10 minutes , um recovery , full recovery , like there's a certain side of medicine that you guys see now , particularly you , christen , that I think a lot of docs don't get a chance to see .
I know for me , you know I haven't experienced it as a patient , I'm like experienced that you know from my mom's standpoint , or even renee from her parent's standpoint , like what is it that I think ?
Or what is it that you think that doctors are missing , since you've been on the other side dealing with insurance , I'm sure denials People not listening , not having enough compassion , like specifically for doctors , what is it that we're missing that we're not getting ?
from the other perspective , I think that the medical education system and the healthcare system Train the humanity out of doctors , right , like that's you're , you're encouraged to learn to suppress your emotions and suppress your empathy and put things in little boxes , and it's , I think it's well intentioned , because the intention behind it is so that you can do your
job , because you see a lot of really difficult things and if you were to just fall apart , you know you , you wouldn't be an effective doctor . But I think it kind of swung too far in that direction . Right , and there's , there's regulation is an option .
Right , there is , there's a healthy amount of , just like Understanding your emotions , recognizing your emotions and learning how to regulate your emotions in appropriate ways and at appropriate times , and and that's what you should be taught .
But instead it's just stuff it all down and keep it in there and , you know , keep it to yourself and try to forget about it and never talk about it , and I think that does harm to Patience and their families as well as to you all . Right , like I don't think that's healthy for anybody .
So I think that the system is set up to treat pathology right , and education is about pathology disease . You know sickness , what has gone wrong and that is all very important and obviously like that's what At the end of the day , that's what we're here to get rid of right , but the thing is that people are not containers for pathology . They are people .
So , yes , treat the pathology .
I see what you're saying yeah , but don't only treat the pathology .
Don't forget that you're treating a person you know who has that pathology , who is dealing with that pathology , and that comes with a whole host of other Things , and that person is connected to a whole host of other people , who that is also , if that pathology Is also affecting those people in a different way , you know .
So all of those pieces are just sort of , you know , there's so much to learn about pathology that that's what it , that's what it ends up being 100% of the time . And then your work hours are so crazy , right , that you don't have time to stop and reflect or feel your emotions or regulate your emotions .
So so I see how it all ends up happening and I don't think it's like malicious intent on anyone's part . But , um , but that's that's kind of the gap you know that gets created is those are the types of things that fall by the wayside .
It's like almost like a , it's a coping mechanism , right ? Like even me . As a trauma surgeon , I see Literally people minutes from dying all the time , right , or you do you give people these really bad pathologic diagnosis , you have cancer , or you have this , you have that , and it's like , okay , I'll see you later , you know We'll have support for you .
And then you just walk out and then , as soon as , as a physician , you walk out the room , you feel like you move on to something else . But that patient , that family , like they're still holding on to that , you know right , and that's changed their whole life . You know , in that moment .
But I think you know people are afraid of Emotions , right , and particularly the negative ones , and you don't have to be like . Emotions are just information .
They're just telling you something about what's important to you , right , and I like , when I was going through childbirth classes , the one thing that was actually helpful about childbirth classes was they told me , you know , yes , it's going to hurt , there will be pain , but it's not the kind of pain that you need to be afraid of , right ?
It's , it's normal , expected pain , um , and it doesn't make it hurt any less , but it helps .
I'm like I don't know . I'm like I don't want to do it again .
Yeah , but but it hurts , but it doesn't have to be feared . Right , we can separate pain from fear and pain from you know . All this just Psychological discomfort right and I see the same thing in in Health care with doctors and their patients , like it's okay If that makes you feel sad . You're a human .
I would be worried if you don't feel sad , given some of the things that you see , but that doesn't mean that you have to run from being sad and run from the situation .
You need to run to a room that you can go crying for a bit .
Yeah , I mean , you know you're gonna have to get through the rest of the day and then maybe you can go cry Right , right , yeah , I mean , you have to be able to function .
I'm not saying you don't you know you can just like , cry whenever you need to , but like , but there's a balance , is what I'm saying . It's not all or nothing , right , like , like you can be an effective human and an effective physician .
Oh Now , william , in your situation where it's , it's a visceral , dichotomy right Like provider one second and then Literally a patient , and not just any other type of patient like you're waking up in the ICU and so forth . What happened ? You know what are your thoughts on that ? Like what ?
Well , fortunately for me , and waking up at the ICU Um my career as an ophthalmologist didn't afford me any extra experience that I could really relate to .
But your board scores were dope though . Yeah .
Yeah , you know , I'd say you don't really have to set a foot in an ICU to be able to perform well on the usm , a leak but uh , I don't know that's a good thing or a bad thing . I you know , I'd say yeah , I , I'd say that , um , the biggest , the biggest learning experience for me was going through the health insurance , the medical bills , the man .
That was totally different than what I expected With the cancer stuff . I was a student and a resident and so I had good health insurance . I had good health insurance this whole time , fortunately for the most part , but as a student it's kind of an oxymoron , that phrase .
Right yeah exactly , I guess .
Yeah , but it was pretty clean . I had surgery to take out the testicle and that was all it was . Insurance paid for most of it . I didn't have to deal with a lot of back and forth . The cardiac arrest was like that was a much bigger deal because I had now an ICU stay . I had all these procedures that were done on me .
Some catheter was put in me that cost like $24,000 . Something outrageous . I don't even know what ?
Oh my gosh , I had an itemized bill . I did .
He asked for it I asked for it .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , let me tell you that wasn't easy .
Yeah .
So there was so much more that went into it than all of a sudden I had all these surprise bills because , see , I forgot to check make sure that the doctors who were going to be at the hospital were in network before I had a cardiac arrest .
You went to the wrong emergency room in ICU .
Oh , I did Right one . Right one Wrong doctor .
Yeah wrong doctors , Right the hospital was in network . My bad Right , but not the doctors , my bad signal .
So , anyway , it was a nine month process , nine months between starting about three weeks after I got from the hospital , of just emails and phone calls and trying to get this tens of thousands of dollars with the bills covered that my insurance wasn't covering . And you know what ended up doing it Social media posts , of course , Of course .
So I had to use this Leave it to embarrassment , public embarrassment , to get people to know Right .
And unfortunately for a lot of people , that's what it takes , and I was very fortunate . Obviously , I had this big platform already so I could draw attention to myself . I didn't feel good doing that , but I was so frustrated that that's what I ended up doing and unfortunately , it works .
And that tells you a lot , actually , about how these insurance companies think about social media . They care about public perception , right . That's like the one thing that you can kind of hit them on is okay , we don't want too many people saying bad things about us , so let's reach out to all these people complaining on social media .
Maybe we generate a little bit of good PR for ourselves .
So it's and you'll notice , even when they reach out , they're like DM us .
No , they don't want a public .
They're trying to get it off of there as quick as possible to get it back to a private channel .
So , and what really ? As a physician , though , it just really drove home like what my patients deal with , what our patients deal with on a day to day basis , right , it's bad enough to have to recover from a critical illness or an accident or whatever it may be that got you in the hospital , and then we put this on top of that .
We'll be like , okay , you're also going to have to deal with the psychological , the emotional turmoil of having to figure out your medical bills and why this is paid , why this isn't paid .
And it's also confusing . You had the knowledge of being a physician within the healthcare system .
And it was still confusing .
So imagine when you don't .
Yeah , it's even worse .
My mom was in the hospital recently and Renee always asked me well , like , when I took my mother to the hospital , I don't say that I'm a doctor at all , like I just roll up there and I'm there and I don't like to use that doctor name because I like to watch and see .
Yeah , don't pull the rank unless you have to Exactly .
I don't pull it unless I rank , unless I have to , because I just want to see how she'll be treated . And I think what I've seen from the other side is , I think , a lot from a doctor perspective . We talk too technical to our patients .
And I'm just sitting there talking .
You know , my mother had an arrhythmia and they're just talking about all these different things and I'm just quiet and I may ask a question here or there as soon as they leave . I ask my mom . So mom , like , do you know what's going on ? She's like no , that's what I would .
I have you here for it , because I have no clue what they're talking about , right , you know . So I think it's like so many different things that you can take away , particularly from your perspective .
But I have the opposite . I have the opposite problem with my mom , like the minute she sees a healthcare professional she's like do you know who my son is ? Have you heard of Dr Glokomflecken ? This is true .
Did you subscribe ?
Yeah , every Did you know he has a newsletter .
It is her favorite thing in the world to tell med students , residents , nurses , it doesn't matter . Let me tell you about it .
She could be going back for open heart surgery , I think one time a flight attendant .
And she's going to be telling the anesthesiologist before she gets put this note Count back to 10 from 10 , then yeah , 9, .
Do you know ?
who my son is Exactly . He's talking about it in her toes . I know that for a fact . If I was dealing with you , I'm like well , make sure .
You know what I mean . I mean the platform , right , oh man yeah .
My work against her . I make everybody nervous , I know .
That's what I'm saying . I'd rather be a little bit more anonymous .
You should have thought about that before you put your face everywhere .
That's probably true . No matter where you are in your career . You've seen patients your age or younger get seriously injured , have a long-term illness or even have a mental health issue that affects their ability to work . Now , what if that was you ? No , for real . What if that was you Without disability insurance ? How are you going to replace your paycheck ?
In episode 176 , jamie Fleissner of Sefa Life Insurance explains why the best time to buy disability insurance is during your residency .
Most people , most physicians , acquire their disability policies during residency , and there's several reasons . First of all , when you're younger , you're able to obtain the insurance because they ask you a whole host of medical history and so you usually don't get healthier over time .
Usually you get less healthy over time , so when you're healthy , it's easier to acquire the coverage or two . It's also less expensive because it's based on your age and your health . You're not getting younger or healthier over time , so you're at the ideal time . The earlier you get it and the younger you are , the less expensive it's going to be .
So , whether you're a resident or you're an attending , it's never too late to protect your income . Renee and I , we use Sefa Life Insurance to find a disability policy that fit our needs and budget . So what are you waiting for ? Check out setfalifeinsurancecom Once again . That's setfalifeinsurancecom .
¶ Balancing Work and Personal Fulfillment
Speaking of putting your face everywhere . Question Are you still practicing as an ophthalmologist right now ?
I am , yes . Today I did 11 cataract surgeries and did an afternoon clinic . So I do . I practice four days a week still .
Which for an ophthalmologist is considered full time actually . That's true , not even a joke .
Yes , so , I'm putting my if you guys are watching on . Youtube like how is there such a thing Like how does this work ? Balance ?
practice social media husband , dad , dog owner you can see your dog like what's going on in there .
He's like you're going to let me in here , or what ?
How does that work ?
Oh man , good question . I'm still figuring it out , but obviously .
I figured .
Yep , obviously Kristen picks up a lot of slack .
She's the special sauce .
Oh , she is Absolutely . I mean a lot more than ways than well , more than just saving my life . She , like you know , just keeps , keeps . She's the engine that keeps this family going . But , as you know , when I first started this , it was a lot more simple , it was more straightforward . Now I was just like telling jokes on Twitter .
I was filming a skit here and there as we started adding more things like the podcast and the news , wanting to do a newsletter , and we had to . We had to get help , and so I had to learn . This is a big , a big deal for me , because I have never been a group project type of person . I just like this was just my thing .
I was just going to do the comedy thing and and I have the total . I have total control . No one has has like thinking selfishly . No one has my ability to post on social media , Absolutely not .
No one can possibly do this as well .
No one can possibly do this and like that's right .
Meanwhile , I like have no idea how Instagram works . I'm just like I have like .
I have a marketing background , but you know who needs that .
So so a big part of it , of finding that balance between all these things is figuring out how to let go , how to , how to let others help me and ask for help . And so Kristen ended up quitting her job at the time to do Glock and Fleck in full time , and she really keeps the business running , also does a lot of creative stuff .
We obviously do the podcast together . We have an employee , we have a production company that helps with the podcast . So I definitely don't want people to think I do all of this myself because team effort . It is an absolutely a team effort and it just has to be and to get to where we want to be with this . You know it really did require .
There's no way I could do it alone . So , yeah , that's the answer , and I'm still not sure I have the right balance . I don't know , still trying to figure that out .
It's still very busy even with all of that .
Yeah , you know , and so I do have to occasionally , you know , do an eye exam or two .
So you know I say that there's no such thing as balance . You just kind of , whatever the priorities are , you just kind of make it happen and you hope at the end of the day that , or even at the end of life , that you've given enough priorities to the things that matter .
you know I do like , though , to to when I , when I talk to audiences and you know do speaking and stuff I like to talk about how you know medicine it's . It should be an important part of your life if you're a physician , but it doesn't have to be your entire life , right ? Exactly , it's okay to want to do other things , right .
Try saying that as someone from a Gen X , right , Like that's another concept as a millennial that y'all could say you know , but that's an amazing point . That's the exact thing you know , right , yeah .
I mean , there's other things that can be fulfilling and and I had I realized pretty early in my life that comedy was very important to me and that I wanted to pursue that .
I kept doing , I did stand up and through college and and into med school , and even when I got really busy , I kept a little part of my life , you know , telling jokes on Twitter and and then eventually , once I had more time as a practicing ophthalmologist , I could , I could explore my creative side a little bit more , and I had more time to do that .
Really , I made time to do that and and and that's okay . And so you know , that's why I you know , I love talking to , like med students and residents and and and just letting them know like you can do things that are fulfilling outside of medicine and you should , and it doesn't make you and you can do them both it doesn't make you a bad doctor Right .
Exactly , it makes you a better doctor , right Right Because you ? Because it brings in other experiences that you can use to relate to your patients .
It doesn't let you off the hook either . It doesn't mean that you don't need to be a good doctor right and study and put in the time and the hours and there will be seasons or years of your life right when maybe you have to focus more on the medicine to put the other stuff aside temporarily while you're focusing on the medicine .
You know , when you're in residency , like you know , as a resident , I had no time to do anything besides , you know , you know going to see eye problems in the emergency department and so maybe not eye problems for you guys . I don't know what was the last time you guys did an eye exam . How long has it been ?
I actually did one . I had a really bad ocular trauma , like what's an eye ?
Okay , that's good , that's usually the response .
It's an able to waste , it ain't in my face .
I like that . That's good , lucky you .
Lucky me .
Lucky . You guys know who the comedian is and is doing that . It's good .
Chris , I got a question for you .
So you graduated with a degree in wedding cognitive neuroscience as well as social psychology ?
I used to have a cell work .
Yeah .
Are you analyzing us right now ?
I know . No , no , no , I'm definitely no psychotherapist . Lies Maybe a little bit . Just always everybody like maybe subconsciously I'm sort of always watching .
¶ Neuroscience of Emotion and Trauma Surgery
I specialized in the neuroscience of emotion , which is why that's one of my big soapboxes , I think now is and particularly like emotion regulation and things . You know I did a lot with that .
She spent hours and hours and hours in a basement with an MRI machine .
Yeah , we did fMRI and psychophysiology . Where you like , hook electrodes up to different parts of the body to do different things , right ?
Like you can .
And we did like EEGs . We did EMG , like face you know , to get at like positive and negative emotion , like what's your , what are your facial muscles doing ? Right , the smile muscles , frown muscles , all that stuff . Even like underneath the skin , where it's not visible , you can still detect electrical activity that indicates things .
So I get real boring about all that . But yeah , that's that's how I started and it was . It was a PhD program but I actually decided to master out before I did the dissertation . So and for many reasons , but but yeah , it turned out . I still use it every day , like I have a .
I did undergrad psychology and then I did that for , for grad school , and then I turned it into a career in marketing and communications and all of that just sort of feeds into everything else .
So it wasn't understanding the wants and needs .
Yeah .
So if you're , if you're keeping track . It wasn't until we got to Dartmouth and I started paying like $80,000 per year in tuition that Kristen decided she didn't want to be a Dartmouth anymore . I don't need to be anything I was I was I was admitted to a state school in Texas . $9000 per year , it would have been sweet .
You know , but then you'd be dead right now . So that's true . Yeah , you know , we probably wouldn't do together .
So I can't really complain . So who got accepted to Dartmouth first ?
Oh , kristen , oh , I had to . I had to fight tooth and nail to get into that place .
So you followed her .
Oh yeah , oh yeah , she is . The application cycles are off , so she got admitted . Like before , even the applications were open .
No , no , it was the other way around . Yours was first , yours starts super early .
Oh , that's right .
And so , like all the spots were already pretty much given away in the med school class by the time , it was even time for me to apply , you know so that's right .
So by the time she knew she was going to Dartmouth , yeah or it was that you had a full class . Yeah like I . I saw I applied very late . That was the deal , and so I got the last interview day and I got waitlisted immediately and like two weeks before literally two weeks I was going to move to to Houston and she was going to go up to Dartmouth .
Mid June , or something they called , and said you got .
I did write like a series of long letters like , like anytime , any award or good grade .
I did everything .
Oh yeah , Everything short of showing up with a jukebox and there's a gen X reference for you . Yes . A little gen X for you .
Was that high fidelity ? One movie , was that again .
That was 16 candles I think 16 candles .
Yeah , one of them . Is it Ducky ?
I don't remember . I don't remember the name John Cusack . John Cusack , though .
John Cusack . Yeah , yeah .
So it wasn't Ducky Ducky's the other guy from the nerd . Yeah , he's the nerd from two men , whatever , oh yeah , what is his name ?
Sean ?
See , this is what it's like when you get older . I know it's like everybody just like trying to remember things , yeah .
Right , what was that guy's name that did the thing ? Who's that again ? Yeah , he's on smart list now .
Yeah , he's on what . There you go .
Smart list , that podcast . You know what I'm talking about ?
Nope , no , okay , yeah , I saw that I didn't follow it too much . But and then he has a new show also .
He just looks like he'd be a host of Jeopardy or something . He has that look Really .
Yeah , he has that look I feel like it would be musical Jeopardy though , you know , like musical theater version . People say that about me .
People say that about me . That could be the host of Jeopardy .
Really . No , you don't think so I think , only you have ever said that about you Somebody ?
should . I do think Yachty Jones TV show yeah .
I'd love that .
Yeah , I don't know .
We'd have to see , but I'm actually interested if somebody because you know , with YouTube , like you control so much right . Like you control everything right . Like you can say what you want to say , you can do whatever topics you want to , you can get as raunchy as you want to get .
Like if someone came to y'all and said , yachty , do your own TV show , but you know , obviously you're going to be on national TV but you got to follow these strict rules , mm-hmm , what do you think about that ? Would y'all take that ?
Yeah , it might depend on what the rules are .
Yeah , I see , and we've thought about , we've actually worked on that actually YouTube adsense ain't bad .
It's a comfy living , yeah , most part yeah it's , it's a nice little side , get to a certain point but it's , it's , um , we've thought about doing like an animated series Based on my content , my characters , which actually I think probably would Be a feasible thing for us , versus like a live action , something going on , because my characters are kind of cartoonish
anyway , right , they're like their caricatures of Health care professionals .
So I think it actually translate .
I did one I did one where the the general surgeon turned into the trauma surgeon . Do you remember that one ?
I don't think I I think I missed that one , so it's the one that went up .
It's the one . It's the one where the it's called don't chart in the ER or emergency department , or something . So the skits about the , the general surgeon who decided to Actually to chart in the emergency department , which is something you never do . Right , you got . You go see the patient , you get the hell out and get out Well the skit .
The general surgeon decided to start charting there and he was ambushed by the emergency physician and they turned him into a trauma surgeon .
That's right , even as an OB . I know you don't do that , because that's actually right . Yeah , even as an OB . I'm like I think she's okay . All right , bye .
You can't somewhere else . That's actually , that video is actually one of my One of my favorites that I've ever made . I love that one , so I'll make sure , I take a look at that .
And when I do take a look at that , please just make it a recurring character , because I'm a trauma surgeon . We don't , you know , we had a garbage man , garbage women of the hospital .
You guys are you gotta , you need to send him some of your like Problems , you know . Unlike interpersonal conflicts and yeah , who do you have beef with ?
you got beef with yeah , you come in for this ocular trauma right . I know it's to the morning but come in right come on man .
Me , I got beef with you .
Everybody . We're always in the hospital .
Call you unless we need you . Which is always no , you can't deliver a baby . Don't start that mess .
I will just my understanding , though , is that you , just , you just spend a lot of time down there in the trauma bay , the Emergency Department . That's kind of like your second home right . That's a tromba .
Yeah , between there , and then the OR and ICU Stuff right you know it is just you're all over the place and stuff you just really doesn't know how that is .
So you're the one , so You're the one this trauma surgery right that that finishes operating on the patient and sends them up to the ICU and with Like he doesn't even know what you do like all the all , the all the lines are all tangled and like absolute mess . And then you just like , like , here you go , icu figure this out , is that ?
kind of the yeah , that's the situation afterwards , absolutely detangle everything call me .
You know , yeah , right , okay , but they do call you , they do .
Jack of all trades , master of none .
Yeah , the first one to admit it .
And .
That's a given almost as cocky as well . How about this ? Then we gonna transition to this cuz . This is a she's gonna get me going and I'm like we could go back and forth , but we really good , chris .
I got a question for you you know William mentioned that you you left your job To focus primarily on the business of the glaucoma , fleckens right , yes , and that is so many different multi hyphenate type things . It's a lot of work .
How you pictured yourself leaving Dartmouth with your degrees , the job being high-powered , highly educated , doing your own thing , to now dropping that and Working on this business ? Talk to us about that , how that works out . Was the internal struggles within yourself going to that ? Because it , I'm assuming that question .
That's a big deal right , but also , at the same time , on the other side , you're highly successful with this right now . Talk to us about that yeah , leave in Dartmouth .
That was kind of interesting cuz
¶ Balancing Work, Marriage, and Comedy
cuz . I had never saw myself leaving Dartmouth until until I did , you know , or not , dartmouth , but just that career path right , I thought that was the path I was on . I had done everything up until that point to get to that path right and I had no idea what I was gonna do . So I kind of , you know , explore things .
I did a lot of research into , like transferable schools and things like that , to try to figure out how to pivot , you know , and I liked my job a whole lot and I loved the people that I was working with and and I I probably , you know , I Could have left sooner , like in terms of just the finances of everything , but I really did enjoy what I was doing .
But I do really like being my own boss . I have to say , like that's pretty nice To be able to have the , the flexibility to . I mean , it's really busy , it doesn't ? It just never stops to be able to like mix kids and work and home and you know work from home and all of that stuff .
So you have a lot of flexibility , but that also means you never have a place to escape any of it , right , it's all .
Together .
Exactly . But yeah , I really like it . I like that I can explore my own creative side through it , in addition to using some of my , you know , skill sets . It's a little you know working . I Wouldn't mind it if I didn't . You know , it gets a little tricky sometimes to be a lady Glokomflecken , right , like I'm attached to the person that I'm married to .
I'm not like my own person .
You know it's not a name .
It's just like I'm known in relation to , yeah right , someone else and and so I . You know , that's probably the the biggest thing I struggle with with all of it is just kind of making my own name for myself and and doing my own work within the company and his stuff just takes so much time that sometimes I'm like , why am I doing this stuff ?
I have my own stuff , I want to be doing it .
Yeah but yeah well , like an incredible job , just carving out like your own . You know pursuits and and and . Like the cardiac arrest , survivorship and do a lot of that , but she's a lot of advocacy is really making a name for herself there and doing a lot of great work , and and so it's .
You know , we , we try to also give each other space to like , do that and and explore that and and that's . That's what's so exciting about this is we could go in so many different directions , you know and that's why our business is the Glokomflecken's .
It's not doctor Glokomflecken . You know , I mean there is that branch , but there's also this other branch and we try to really give , you know , some balance between the two and there's a lot of overlap between what the two of us care about , because obviously We've had a lot of overlap , you know , having been together for the last years .
But we do , we have like .
We've been married . Oh , I don't even know , I can't even do it anymore . 2006 . So 18 years that we've been .
Oh , married since 2009 married since 2009 . How many years that is ?
anyway . The point is there's been a lot of shared experiences , and that goes through in the brand , but we also have our own you know personalities and then like Areas that we focus on With the business as well .
So yeah , it's , it's all kind of a balancing act .
We can work , we work well together , that's , we have all we our entire relationship has always been like work-based , you know , Like we met as students , where we would spend our Friday night studying in the library Before we went out .
You know so we have occasionally had fun .
But work has always been , you know , since the beginning . So we , we've , we've learned how to do that . Do your own thing together is kind of the yeah .
I think that's kind of like us this , where you should tell them will . I asked about the what prenup agreement . Oh , oh , the reason I mentioned that is your story . Everybody was there for the come-up right everybody was there from college all the way up . So we met in med school , you know , obviously had nothing .
My dumb ass said hey , you know , like before we get married , should we consider a prenup ? Even though I was $320,000 in debt and she was $20,000 in debt , you know ? Yeah , I just said it as a joke .
No , you didn't say it .
Wasn't a joke .
He was serious and I was like you don't have anything , you have nothing .
It's a nice to do a prenup when you have a negative net .
Exactly so . I'm assuming that never came up in your conversations . What ?
if I had just to you a prenup .
I mean we were in the same boat and either one of us had any .
We were so broke . Yeah exactly the reason I'm laughing .
I'll keep my nickel and you keep yours , oh sure .
That we both have to pay this alley-may , but whatever Got a question for you .
So you know well , you were talking about , like , growing up with comedy . Right , yeah , and a couple questions . One what's your amount , rushmore , of comedians , and it has , that's four . So who's ?
on yeah oh . David Letterman really . Mm-hmm , I grew up from a stand-up standpoint . Really .
Yeah , okay , yeah , I mean .
Yeah , oh , like Back in the day , seinfeld was like he's his stand-up . I'm not as now you mean not good ? Yeah , right , yeah but right girl , I'm prime Jerry Seinfeld . I like I've gone through different comedians in different phases of my life .
Right and so don't tell me , I watched all those seasons of Seinfeld ten times each and he's not one of your no . You can't tell me that he made me watch so much Seinfeld when we were dating .
I think George Carlin probably has to be on that list .
Yeah , it's observational comedy .
Yeah , absolutely yeah . I mean I also , like I grew up with , with starting out live as well and and Tina Fey and Amy Poehler , like I love everything that they do and along with like 30 rock and Then I'll really stand-ups , but but still they're comedians and and well , you do a lot of comedy .
Yeah , I do , yeah , snl Right exactly .
I mean , I SNL is a formative experience kind of for me . I remember , you know I would tape those episodes videotape like in a .
VCR . Yeah Like .
I remember like cassette tapes , like I'd make a pencil out . Yeah , yeah , we're like elder millennia . We're kind of on the border , so there you go . Yeah , yeah , you know right now , like currently , who's the guy that ? The southern guy , nate Bargatze . Yeah , he's really funny , it's really funny .
It's Taylor Tomlinson as a stand-up . I haven't watched her . I know she just got a late-night show . I haven't seen that . I don't know if that's any good , she's funny .
Stand-up is hilarious , she's good yeah .
Yeah , with all the new , because now you , with a lot of the new comedians , the things that they say are it's not like the old days , right , the old days you can kind of say anything and you don't have to worry about getting canceled and so forth . So what are your thoughts on that ?
Because , you know , is it like we're too sensitive or is it like a okay course ? Yeah right thoughts . I think , like would Eddie Murphy still be a . Murphy in today's day .
Probably not probably not .
I don't think so and I think maybe I Think we've probably corrected a little bit too much . I still , I think people maybe people are a little bit too sensitive nowadays , but this is also coming from like
¶ Balancing Comedy and Medicine
I grew up . Comedy was such a big part of my life and so I still like , I still remember like I'd say the talk like this , like I'm like in my 60s or 70s but you're kind of looking like it .
Yeah , exactly .
But so I guess I'm just I'm not as easily offended , and so comedy is such a subjective , like personal experience , I think , in a lot of ways , and my mind really is in medical comedy so much , and then that's completely different , you know it's it's like I don't actually call myself a stand up comedian . I'm not , I'm not a stand up comedian .
Stand up comedy is incredibly hard work . I do a little bit of stand up , I dabble in stand up whenever I do speaking gigs and and and some of the live show stuff we do you started in stand up ? I started in stand up , but that's tough .
It's really hard .
Doing it . It's a really hard life . It's hard to make it , and then now for the past eight years or so , like I've , I've been like exclusively doing medical comedy , and that has a different .
Which was that even a ? Thing ?
Not , I mean not really there . There are a few people that are doing like a little bit .
Yeah , but um , you know , it just sounds so weird to my ears , right Like as a non-medical person Right . What is funny about it ?
Well , you had . You had people that were doctors and quit and then just went into comedy like Ken Jeong . Right , yeah , but there weren't , I didn't have like a prototype of someone that was really like blending the two and like having trying to have , like this , this public career as a comedian while also being a doctor .
So I made a lot of mistakes , you know , um , as I was trying to figure this role out in society and and I learned very quickly that there are there's a different level of professionalism as a physician .
you know , telling jokes on social media like that , I have to maintain and so it's very different from the rest of comedy where you know you can be like your Anthony , jezelnick and other , you know Chappelle and other , that that that can , can , can push the envelope a little bit more .
Yeah , I don't have that luxury as a physician and that's just because of the , the place we have in society . Really , you know , because we have we're , we have patients , lives in our hands not , not me so much as an ophthalmologist , but you get what I'm saying . Yeah , Um , please don't put your life in my hands . Um eyes I can do , but not your life .
I think , I think doctors and pilots . There's a certain place where in society people want a certain level of seriousness from them , right ? So there has to .
So there has to be a , there's a level of professionals , and that's what I I talk a lot about with you know , not punching down , not , you can't , don't make fun of patients , don't you know ? There are certain things .
You have to be aware of the power hierarchy , exactly , yeah .
So so you have to obey those rules , but you can still be funny , you can still tell jokes . I think it's really important that we are able to do that and show the public that we have a sense of humor , that we can let our guard down a little bit .
But but you do have to do it safely , and it just requires a different mindset when you're trying to do that as a physician or a medical professional who takes care of people .
Your ability to segue is amazing , because there's a quote of yours that I want to read and I want to ask your question just based off of that . I think it's super interesting . So last year you did , there was an article on you and you said when things get a little more complicated , quote , unquote .
What it comes down to to for me is do I believe that my ridicule of something is justified and I trust myself ? But at some point you just have to go for it . You have to do it and live through the consequences and quote . So basically , I want to know have you ever gotten heat for any of your jokes ?
Oh , yeah , oh , absolutely .
Because , it just seems like everybody . It seems like everybody loves you .
But it's just like I'm thoroughly yeah , yeah .
Especially at the beginning , you know , because , again , the medical comedy stuff was pretty new . We didn't have TikTok , we didn't have all this skit stuff .
It was just like mainly as me telling jokes on Twitter and and there wasn't , there wasn't a blueprint for like how to do this , and so I made mistakes , I made fun of things that I I said that now I would never make fun of , and you know , taking jabs at patients at like . Just I'll use an example of like a non compliant patient .
You know something something like that , that , yeah , whenever patients don't do what we asked them to do , we get frustrated as physicians . Right , I would like I made , I would make a joke about that or something and I'd get immediate pushback and people getting mad at me and for justified reasons .
Like there's a lot more that goes into a quote unquote , non-compliant patient Right . And so , and having something like that come from a physician rub people the wrong way . It's those types of learning experiences that I was referring to there because , yeah , I didn't know I didn't have that , I had to live through that , I had to .
I had to just realize , okay , I really shouldn't be pointing my comedy in that direction . And so , yeah , it's trial and error for a lot of things , and now I'm really good about knowing , like , which areas to not go after and Well , you could even do like the same joke just the other way around , right ?
Because again , it's that power hierarchy , the structure of it Exactly . You could tell a joke from a quote non-compliant patient's perspective about why it's ridiculous that the physician expects this you know , it's why it's needed to happen Exactly .
You could do that .
But you notice now , with all my skits it's all physician to physician .
Yeah , it's right . It's a type of comedy , right ? Medical student resident yeah .
You'll never see a patient character in my skit . And that's purposeful . I don't , because it's just it's not worth it . I don't want to do anything that's going to undermine the physician-patient relationship . It's already tenuous .
You know how a lot of the public sees physicians in this day and age , and so I don't want to do anything that's going to potentially make that worse . And making fun of the wrong thing , making fun of a patient experience that's the easiest way to really mess up and get into it and getting trouble Making fun of health insurance companies .
That's punching up .
Right , how about it ? Because they're powerful , right , they're cool , it's not personal thing .
They don't come off as human Right , so it's just like a corporation's easy to do after .
Exactly . So I go hard on them more than anything else . Private equity United .
Health .
Care all these things . I use their logos and call them evil .
Thankfully there's legal protection for satire , otherwise we'd be in big trouble .
I've never I've not been threatened with legal action just yet , yeah Well yeah , Let me ask you do you think that there would ever be a time when you do only comedy and not medicine ?
We've talked about this so many times .
I know you have . I know you have Because I'm like this has got to be a discussion , a topic of discussion .
I'm not seriously considered it . There are things that we could do if I did quit my day job , but it's such a huge connection to my comedy now , right ?
So I feel like if I stopped practicing medicine which I don't want to do then what the content I put out would become less genuine , and less meaningful in certain ways , and so I need to and want to maintain that connection to really be able to produce the best comedy that I can . So I'm not ready . It would take a lot Netflix .
Yeah , I'd have to be offered a lot of money to do some kind of a Netflix . Maybe they will talk HBO Max Something .
Well , I think also when you've been through cancer twice and a cardiac arrest all before 35 , we're both pretty risk averse . We want to know that that predictability and stability is there and the entertainment world is fickle .
So we're enjoying the ride and we're having a great time and we've got a lot of plans and a lot of dreams and whatnot , but it's nice to know that the medical career , it , affords us more freedom .
honestly , in the entertainment .
We don't have to make our living that way so we can have more freedom to just be creative and follow whatever we want to do , rather than what we need to do to feed our family yeah , so it'd be a tough sell .
It's a big part of it too . Yeah , Just having that , just knowing that I have the stable career that's always that's going to be there .
Not to mention I was there for all those years of training . We are going to get our money's worth .
Yeah , that's true .
That's right , all of it .
All of it from the beginning . So yeah , you're not done paying that off yet .
Speaking of paying off stuff , I got a quick fast-fire question for y'all because I was going to give you a list of fast-fires since you just walked right into it . So student loans where y'all at with that , because I'm sure Dartmouth either way . Med School or Psychology was money I started at 320 .
And then now . We're at 150 roughly so at a low interest rate , so I could have paid it down probably a lot faster . But I'm like the sub three at this point , so I'm just letting the payments ride at this point . Got you Putting ?
my money elsewhere .
Got you , but we're feeling good .
Who's your dream podcast ? Guest or host , or sorry , no guest , no guest .
He's a host .
Yeah , there we go .
We've had some good .
I'm going to say Seinfeld . I still want oh Mahal , oh Mahal .
That has nothing to do with our podcast but he would do it in a hot second .
From a comedy standpoint , I would say either Conan O'Brien or Ken Jeong . Yeah , ken Jeong .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , we really want to have Ken Jeong .
I've reached out to him already .
Yeah , I don't know if we have any shot at it ever .
But , that would be ideal Come on Ken .
Right .
I know .
Who's the better podcast host ?
Me .
I think Kristen asked better questions . You're pretty good at it .
Yeah , we're pretty , I mean like our real life . I think we're a good team . He keeps it light and keeps it moving and keeps it funny , and I'm more of the let's go in depth and be insightful and curious .
So I like to crack jokes , but Kristen's also . You can turn it on . Yeah , the comedy .
I just like . I don't want to make you feel bad .
No , oh , I appreciate that .
Thank you .
But who's so ? William , I know you're the comedian .
Yeah .
Actually , who's funnier ?
That is a hot debate in this house .
Yeah , we have different types of comedy of humor .
I like to say that he makes jokes and I have a sense of humor . Does it make any sense ? I don't know . What are you ?
talking about . It does . She likes puns and word play and stuff .
Well that's one thing I like Only if they're good Dad jokes Are you like dad jokes .
No , no , not dad jokes . They have to be good , they have to be like clever .
Yeah , well , really .
You know , Like a little high brow . Yeah , yeah , I like the word play .
But I also just like a really good , like a clever quip or some really dark comedy or you know , I don't know . I think we both have good sense of humor . Yeah , Mine's better , Mine's a little better though .
Well , so I don't know about that . I think what would our guests say , or what would our listeners say ?
Well , you're playing the role of the funny one and I'm playing the role of the inquisitive one , that's true .
Yeah , who apologized first after an argument ?
Oh me .
You should apologize first after an argument , but I don't think that's usually how it goes .
Well , she saved my life , so I kind of have to .
Yeah .
He has to concede every argument . That's all right . It's all right . It's all right , it's all right , it doesn't matter what you do . Yeah , I saved your life . Yeah .
No , I'll usually be the one to apologize first , unless I just get stubborn and I let it go overnight and then when he wakes up he's like I'm sorry , he's got to think about it for a little while .
Yeah , he's got to have his space , yeah .
Yeah Me apologizing , I've learned that over the years
¶ Balancing Family, Work, and Podcasting
.
Yeah , yeah , I apologize first . Yeah , he does , I do , do you ?
need to . Yeah , the kids , the kids got .
Yeah , we're going to have to take them to lessons .
Yeah , we got the kids got music lessons . They're probably like what are we going to do ?
They got them to play violin and piano and singing .
So hopefully they're ready , they're ready , and just so everybody knows that is a wrapped in , we get the sign . I mean it's a wrap . Listen the Glock and Fleckens . There it is everyone . We really appreciate your time .
We know that it's tough balancing everything and you got to go to your mom and dad duties and so forth , but this was a great opportunity to just get a little bit behind the scenes . Our podcast we kind of talk about like lifestyle , we talk about student loan debt . We talk about even balancing all of these different things .
So that's why we wanted you on the show , because there's so many different perspectives that both of y'all bring that you know we deal with and we talk about individually , but to have both of you guys kind of talking about these things it was really great .
So thank you so much for coming on the show .
Thanks for having us . This was so fun . It was great to meet you .
Great talking to you . Thanks for having us on .
I didn't even hear any banging , so your kids must be successful . Yep , that's it . A mallet Good to go .
Nice or whiskey . Thanks guys , all right , thank you .
Thanks guys .