¶ Introduction to Spending & Money Traps
All right , what's good everyone . This is Dr Nii , host of Docs Outside the Box . I am joined by Dr Renee R-E-N-E-E-D-A-R-K-O . Like a Spaghetti-O type commercial . What is this ? No , you don't know where that's from . Yeah , m-i-c-k-e-y-m--o-u-s-e .
Yeah yeah , where'd we come from ?
oh yeah because we were just in disney . That's right , but everyone , this is another episode of docs outside the box . We are so excited that you guys have joined us . Shout out to everyone who's watching us on youtube .
Shout out to everyone who's listening to us with your favorite podcast player , if you're driving into work , if you're working out , if you are I don't know cleaning up , if you're operating while you're listening to this if you're writing damn clinic notes and you it's seven o'clock eight o'clock at night and you're still writing clinic notes , like god damn it man I
gotta remember everything from that person .
I saw at nine in the morning man . What did I do ? Did I get a ?
potassium on them . Did I ask orthopedic surgery to get that potassium ? Goddamn .
Leave those orthopods alone .
But everyone , we're excited to be here . So , listen , you can't tell because you're just listening to episodes and you're seeing how they come out . But yo , there's a very it's a very nonlinear way in which we record episodes .
To say the least .
There are times when we batch episodes . There are times when we record and then 48 hours later the episode comes out . All we are saying is right now it's been at least a good two to three weeks since we've actually recorded together yeah in the studio and I'm excited to be here . We got the lights on , we got the camera going . We got all the stuff .
I just I love being down here . It's a great experience . I love recording with you . We got that energy , so I'm mad hyped .
I'm hyped too . I gotta sneeze . Can I sneeze ?
Yeah , go ahead and sneeze . You can go ahead and sneeze .
Now it's not going to come because I said I had to sneeze . But all right , keep going .
But if I keep going , it'll come up , it'll come , yeah , so . All right . So listen , folks , remember Doc's Outside the Box . This is a fusion of money , medicine and pop culture . Now this episode is going to be about
¶ Disney Vacation Reality Check
spending . This is one of the money traps that doctors can overcome to stop being burnt out .
Money trap number five right Number five .
So we're going to be talking about spending , we're going to be talking about lifestyle creep in a fun way , but I think it's apropos that we're talking about this episode once we Apropos .
Yeah , you like my vocab . I love that . Well , yeah .
So it's apropos that we're talking about this , as we got back from our one week vacation oh yeah , in florida , and then we spent 48 hours at disney . And god damn the wallet yo . Disney and their marketing is no joke everything is like 15 dollars or 30 dollars or multiples of 15 dollars . It is crazy . And our son got us yo .
He took us for a paper man , yeah all these toys that we got , that he's gonna end up breaking Yep Balloons .
A balloon costs $15 , and then you can't even bring it on the plane .
You can't even bring it on the plane , so they can only enjoy it for like 48 hours , and then that's it , unless you're driving down Right , which is a different story , but we weren't . Right , you're driving up , but we flew . So we flew down to Florida , we saw your family and you know the Miami , fort Lauderdale , actually Fort Lauderdale .
Fort Lauderdale , west Palm , west Palm Beach area , and then from there we drove up to Orlando .
Yep .
And we were there , and Disney , and just all the you know everything that's Disney .
Yeah , you know you were enjoying it . And I'm thinking about money , I'm like I'm gonna spend money on this oh please , you had a good time Stop playing . We got to Magic Kingdom First of all . We went to Animal Kingdom first and you were kind of like this is cool . You're like , oh , can we go ? And I'm like , wait , let's kind of enjoy .
We had the park hopper , we had the park hopper tickets , anyway , and we went over to Magic Kingdom . And this guy , we had the park hopper , we had the park hopper tickets Expensive , anyway . And we went over to Magic Kingdom Expensive and this guy , this guy's- face lit up when he saw the castle .
So it's been realistically probably close to like 38 years , 39 years , since the last time I was in Disney . My parents took me when I was I want to say five or less . And I can't remember there's some pictures , but that was the last time I've ever been to Disney .
Every other time that you know Disney has come up , it's been in a commercial Super Bowl , at the end , or , you know , when you wish upon a star .
Where you going I'm going to Disneyland .
I just want to move on to Super Bowl . Right , that's the only time that I've , you know since then , Magic Kingdom , but I'm not going to front . It was expensive as hell .
It was expensive From the flights to .
We did Airbnbs to keep the price down . Food was expensive there , but it was expensive .
It was really expensive .
And you know the thing that we did is . You know , this is our first vacation really in about what 10 years ?
No , is it about 10 years ? Uh , no , is it about 10 years ? Well , that's true , Our first vacation in 10 years where we didn't have anything specific to do with , like a conference or medical whatever , blah , blah blah . So , outside of our honeymoon , actually , this is the first trip that we've taken where we just took a vacation , just to take vacation .
Yeah , we have not done that and I'm not going to front Like we are not good at that .
Yeah , we need to do more of that .
Balance is something that we need to get better at . But the most important thing about this vacation is we paid for cash right and we went into our savings and we just decided that it's not going to be put on any credit cards unless specifically it's like for a rental car Right .
And then we know we're going to pay it back like a week later , which is what we're going to do . Right , we did a rental car because the rental car , the American Express card we have has , you know , insurance on it . So that they don't get you for your paper when you get to the checkout line for your car rental .
Yep .
So they have all of those different things , and you know that's a very powerful thing to be able to pay for things . The question , though , is what happens when you are going on Disney multiple times a year , or when you're going on Disney multiple times a year , or multiple times every year , actually , no , let me fix it .
When you're going to .
Disney every year , but then you still got like student loans . You still got like multiple
¶ Physician Salary Reality vs Expectations
expenses and I think that a lot of people when you become a physician , they just think that you are like an ATM machine , that you have money coming in , which is true , and in comparison to , I think most people , most people , doctor's salary does really like , it's really good .
Right , like I remember when I was finishing school , when I was finishing residency in my head and I talked about this on another episode I wanted to get an Audi . This car that I wanted was a red , a cherry red , audi S5 . That's what I wanted , yeah , which was roughly about $56,000 , $57,000 .
Jesus , I didn't know really the difference between leasing and buying , so I wanted to buy it .
Right , right .
Which , realistically , I probably would have ended up getting like a three or maybe five year financing Right Because I wasn't going to pay for a cash , because I didn't have the money to get a cash Right . Right , I wanted a really nice home . Right , an expensive home .
Right , okay .
And based off of expense expensive like you know that for me would determine if it's nice or not okay not if it was aesthetically pleasing , like a two hundred thousand dollar . Aesthetically pleasing home for me would not be good enough . It'd have to be expensive to make it good enough so like a five hundred thousand dollar higher .
Come on , man , my mind was warped . Man , look , man , all of this stuff is based off a delayed gratification . Right , you're like yo , I become a doctor . I want to be more than comfortable . Right , I want to be more than comfortable . I put in all this time .
I'm sacrificing my 20s and a portion of my 30s , right , like , there's going to be like dollar , dollar bill . There's going to be a bag waiting for me at the end .
Yeah , Right yeah , right yeah , but the question is who dipping into that bag ?
Yeah , but you're not Thinking about that , right ? You're not thinking about that At the time . You're thinking about vacations , right . How many vacations Am I gonna go ?
I'm gonna go to Italy , I'm gonna go to Switzerland , I'm gonna go to All these different places , south Africa , we're gonna do all these Different things Putting people on right , like I'm gonna put on , possibly you know , possibly I better be on my sister , my cousin tt , you know , shasha all the people down at 7-eleven .
Everybody's gonna get put on and then , last but not least , I wanted a trophy wife you wanted .
Well , you definitely did not get that nails her bags .
Right , you did not get a Nails hair bags .
Right , you did not get a trophy wife , let me tell you .
Well , basically what I'm saying is that you know you bring in a significant amount of money as a physician , like serious money , yeah . But what I just mentioned to you is something that's really realistic . A lot of people , when they graduate , they think about all the things that they've been deferring for a long period of time .
Think about all the things that they've been deferring for a long period of time and as soon as they get their first check as an , attending , their first multiple six-figure salary , attending paycheck now we're talking about you know , all of these things kick in and if you're making , let's say , $300,000 or $350,000 or $200,000 , like you got to give a third of
that to Uncle Sam , to Uncle Sam and then you gotta live off of some of that . Like , how much money are you really keeping ?
who's dipping into your bag ?
well , but a lot of people are like I can live off of this , I can make this work and I don't know . So what I just mentioned is lifestyle creep .
Basically just to lead , I feel like I'm kind of going down this meandering road , but basically what I am getting at is is the biggest issue is spending as well as lifestyle creep , you feel like because you've made a certain amount of money and you start getting certain raises definitely a big raise from being in a residence and attending .
Because you , because you make more , you should get more Right , basically like you , eat ramen noodles . Right .
And then also you're like , like , well , I need to be shopping at whole foods , right , exactly so , just because you make more doesn't necessarily mean that you need to spend more , that you need to get more , that you need to , you know , live a certain way .
So you know what they call keeping up with the joneses , right , which a lot of people you know a lot of people , I think aspire to um , kind of like you did , and a lot of people , I think , aspire to kind of like you did and a lot of people eventually end up doing .
But what ends up happening is that once you start living like the Joneses right , here's the thing about the Joneses On the outside it looks great , but on the inside you're suffering , right , you start to go down this road of hold on a second , I got all this stuff and now I can't actually afford it , right . And so you end up going on credit cards .
You know , taking lines of credit from other things , you know , maybe from your house , maybe from your $500,000 million house , whatever it is right . So you start taking lines of credit . You know you might , you might have kids and you decide you want to give your kids everything . You don't buy your kids the latest .
My kids got to go to private school . Right , they got to go to private , got to go to this college , exactly .
Exactly .
Damn well that they can go to med school . I got to buy my kids a brand new car .
I got to buy my kids a phone when they're five . I got it , you know . So you start doing all of these things to basically solidify a status .
Right , yeah , so you make a good point , and I think the best way I could describe it is is when you don't have money , you want money so bad that you actually don't realize , like if you are making $20 an hour or if you're making $15 an hour and all of a sudden , you are getting a $100,000 check or you're getting paid equivalent to $100,000 or $200,000 or
$300,000
¶ Understanding Lifestyle Creep
. Yes , that is a lot of money . That is a huge amount of money that you can work with . But then , all of a sudden , it's like well , how likely are you to keep those same behaviors that you had when you were making $10 an hour , $15 an hour ? To now you're making multiples of that .
Like what's the likelihood of that , and I think that was the big wake-up call for me , which was , yeah , you can afford all of those things , but literally every two weeks , the amount of money that you're bringing in from operating and staying up late and all these different things are going to pay for that lifestyle Right and the things that I may have really
wanted but I didn't know how to verbalize or I didn how to realize . you know savings and investing and you know the ability to say no . those are the things that were really important to me . I had no idea how to even . I even know how to even save up . I didn't even know any of that stuff . I know how to spend , and that's right . That's crazy .
So well before we move on to the next point about this is just real quick , just to give some perspective . So Medscape released a survey I mentioned this in a show before and they surveyed 13,000 physicians in 29 specialties and this is to detail how physician compensation changed in 2021 .
Obviously , covid , the pandemic , played a big role in salaries and income stagnated in 2020 , obviously due to COVID-19 , but it's starting to make a comeback . But let's be realistic . So physicians overall earned on average about $339,000 , right , if you're in primary care , that is $260,000 . And then if you're a specialist , you are in the $368,000 range .
Okay , now by specialty the highest compensation by specialty is obviously the heavy hitters Plastic surgery $576,000 . Orthopedic surgery $557,000 . Cardiology , otolaryngology , uy , gastroenterology all of these things , specialties , up until we get to general surgery .
You guys are all in the 400 thousands and in everything below that .
We're talking about er , critical care , ob-gyn pathology , pm and r you're in the mid 300s . Once we get into allergy and immunology , rheumatatology , psychiatry , internal medicine , you're averaging below $300,000 .
Right , right .
Now the interesting thing is self-employed physicians and moonlighters .
Okay .
Right . So self-employed physicians on average $385,000 they're averaging , and employed doctors are $320,000 they're averaging , and employed doctors are $320,000 . So if you continue to make the averages based on if you're employed or based off of your specialties . You can make the numbers kind of work , whichever way you want to work .
The key thing is that what I want people to understand is and one thing , let me get to that point who earns more , men or women ? Y'all know the answer to this one man . Right to that point . Who earns more men or women ? Y'all know the answer to this one Men Right , men among specialists who earn more men ? $402,000 .
They're averaging Women even though women get better outcomes .
but whatever $307,000 , right , so you know . I think it's very interesting to see from these things , though , Even if you go as high as plastic surgery like , there's nothing here that says plastic surgeons are making a million dollars a year .
Right , right , right . Well , these are averages , though these are averages , ok , right , and we all are average . Can we stop acting like I don't know about you , but I'm the best goddamn OBGYN there ever was ?
All right . Well , so you're making more , okay , well , I don't want to say that number , but okay . Anyway , listen , all I'm saying is this we got to base the data off of the averages , right ? Ain't nobody making over a million dollars On average ?
On average right as a plastic surgeon an orthopedic surgeon or even as a neurosurgeon .
So the question is where's all
¶ Job Search Pitfalls for Physicians
this money , like all this money that everybody's hoping to get for this bag ? It's there , but it's not as big as we all think it is . So we have to be more of a steward of your money .
Right , right , right , I mean . So , look , I think part of it is that a lot of us , a lot of us , go into medicine and we're actually not spending a lot of money before we go into medicine , right , so we don't . We don't even know how to spend money . Right , so you go from high school to undergrad .
I mean , really , like , what money are you really spending ? Right , you went from getting an allowance maybe , having like a little job or something , maybe a little something in the summer . Right , you're not buying major things , you're not buying a car , you're not buying a house , you're not doing any of those things . So you don't even know how to spend money .
So you don't even understand what your behavior is going to be at the end of the journey . Right , the first time you really start making any real money which is not real , real money , but it's more than what you got before and it's pretty consistent is in residency , right ?
And so that's their first job right .
For a lot of people , their first job is doctor . They've never had any other job before . What was their first job ? Right ? For a lot of people , their first job is doctor . They've never had any other job before . Was your first job I was a doctor ? Ok , great , right , so that's the first time that you're getting a paycheck .
For many , you know , for many people out there , that's the first time they're getting a paycheck , very consistently , and it's a paycheck that they're like oh man , like I've never seen this number before , which is why a lot of residents go out and do what they buy a house during residency , not realizing right , like you , I did that , okay , like you , and , as
a matter of fact , I saw that old TikTok that you did .
Yes .
And you made it an Instagram post . Yeah , and there were two people who were doctors who asked the question wait a minute , why did you say don't buy a house your first year of residency , Right ? They didn't understand Like why why not buy a house ?
Because you don't know the neighborhood .
Not just you don't know neighborhood Dude , you don't know what , you don't know what money is , you don't know what money is yet Like . You have no clue how money works , right , and so you start spending it . Because that's that's , for for many people , how they think money works . Money works by you make it , then you spend it .
They think that's how money works and that money is basically infinite , that it will just keep coming . Because I got this job , I got job security , so I'm going to just keep spending until until one . You ain't got no job security , no more . You get laid off , you get fired . Something happens . Number two a pandemic hits .
They tell you well , we don't really need you because you're not an essential worker . Number three you get disabled , right , like , oh , all that money you done spent on a whole bunch of stuff . You should have been spending it on disability insurance , right . Number four you die .
Now you may not understand the repercussions of that , but trust me , your family will . You should have been spending your money on life insurance , right or worst , worst .
Number five you spend that money and you got all this stuff and now you ain't got no more money and and people are still coming after you , because you owe them money , because you spent more than what you have , and to me that's the worst .
You kept track of all that numbers in your head because I couldn't keep track of all the numbers .
Yeah , I did . I used my fingers , you used your fingers and you got up to five . One , two , three , four , five .
Yeah , Sheesh , so you really were ready to say all that stuff . Oh yeah , I think it was Martin episode where Martin goes back to talk to his elementary school , the one with Miss Trinidad .
Oh yeah , miss Trinidad Beverly Johnson .
And it was career day and the kids are asking Martin as well as Cole and Tommy what they do for a living , and then it says how much you get paid . So I think about with doctors nowadays if someone asked me to come back Like would it be disappointing if someone asked , like what are you doing , how much you get paid ?
And I'm like , well , actually , you know , the biggest flex is , like me , being able to say no . They're going to be like what the hell are you talking about ? What kind of car are you ?
driving . They won't understand they won't get it . They won't get it , because spending money is a status symbol , if you can afford this or not . Even if you can afford it , if you look like you can afford it or if you can acquire it right .
If you can acquire this thing , however , you're going to acquire it , whether it's through credit , whether it's through cash , whether it's you borrowed money from your you know , from your mama , like wherever as long as you can acquire it , then , all of a sudden , it's a status symbol .
So Doximity has annual compensation , so this is a different one . Neurosurgery $773,000 . Thoracic surgery I can't believe thoracic surgeons are still getting paid this much . Anyway , $684,000 . For real Orthopedic surgery ? Damn it $633,000 for a pro orthopedic surgery . Damn it , 633,000 . Plastic surgery 556 . Vascular surgery , oral maxillofacial Where's general surgery ?
And all that ?
Keep going lower , keep going lower .
But no , but for real .
I mean , I understand what you're saying and I think you know , back then the flexes for me back then would have been something status related , and now it's the ability to say yeah , nah , I don't want to do that and no , could be in so many different isn't answers for so many different questions of can you take extra call , or can you do this or can you do
that ? And you know I tend to , you know , take less , now , less of an income in order for me to have more of the lifestyle that I want , which Medscape also did a survey on and showed that a lot more doctors wish they could say no and would be willing to take less than salary to do that .
So for me , I think that the ability to say no is the ultimate flex .
Obviously , it's going to require you to have some money , some bread , some moolah and so forth , kind of just saving this stuff up so that if you have to change positions or you're going to be unemployed for some time , because , the other party is going to be like well , that's not good for me also , and then you have to walk away from the table with nothing
. At least you have something saved up . So that's how I feel about it , and these subscribers , I mean , think about it . Just even something as small as subscription services , right , like YouTube TV .
Then you throw in .
Hulu . For me , that's the problem . I feel like all the things that we were excited about five years ago about getting rid of cable , we're back to cable again now .
Yeah , but I said that a long time ago . The other thing that we got to think about also is when people are in a relationship right , and one person is spending and the other person is not right , and how that impacts the ability to do certain things right .
So you have somebody who is a saver , but then you have somebody who you know is a saver , but then you have somebody who is , you know , a crazy spender . It's like , well , how do you reconcile the two ? You know , that's something that when we were , you know we were doing Keeping Up With the Darkos a long time ago .
That's a different episode .
That's a whole different beast . Right there , you know , like when you're financially incompatible with somebody's- I mean , that can really really .
Cause a major problem , especially if that other person Maybe May not be in a professional setting . And they've watched you sacrifice and they're like Alright , now it's time for the come up . And they're like Slow down , yep , we still gotta pay off debt . Yep , we still gotta build a savings . Yeah , like man , what ?
You know , you know , that reminds me of Girlfriends , you remember ?
that show Girlfriends . I remember Girlfriends , but I didn't watch Girlfriends .
Yeah , so Girlfriends , that's what happens to Toni she marries a doctor . When she marries a doctor , she's like , ah , she's ready to do all this kind of stuff . And he's like I got student loans . And she's like , wait , what you got sued in what ? Yeah ?
Someone's coming knocking Right , someone is coming knocking .
Yeah , somebody's coming to knock at your door , so you know it's important to . You know , obviously , figure out , you know where you're going to work , how much you're going to get paid . But you also have to be thinking about you know what you're going to be spending that money on . You know what .
I mean , well , I think part of it too is a lot of folks go into things blindly , particularly looking for a job . They go into looking for a job blindly and it's just well , what are your attending , excuse me , what are your co-residents doing , what are your fellows doing ?
And you kind of just go to job boards , right , and you look for jobs and you're just like , okay , this is what they're offering .
Or you get that email .
Right , you get an email from a headhunter , big figure , and it's a big figure , but it's in relation to what ?
You don't know .
You don't know if maybe , being in the Northeast , you're going to get paid one rate versus being in the Southeast versus being in another part of the United States . So you know , I think that that's a big hurdle that I think a lot of residents , fellows , even attendings , have to be able to understand is that listen you're not going to . You're not .
I don't know where you're going to get this database and get all this information from , but it's not going to just pop up in your head .
Right .
And some people can't even afford MGMA information . That's expensive right , that's a big database that you got to pay for . So , you know , I think , that we've teamed up with St John's right . St John is St John Associates .
I think that they are , you know , offering particularly orthopedic surgeons , you know , an opportunity to kind of understand the landscape of being recruited the landscape of looking for a job . They've done this for over 30 years .
You know we're teaming up with them mainly because we're all about empowerment Right and any type of company that's going to give more power to the doctors . We're here for it .
Yeah , yeah , I mean they definitely have had , you know , a pretty long standing history of working with doctors . But again , right , we've kind of talked about this in different episodes , you know , and we're talking about it again because all of this is related is that do not get shopped around to different yeah .
Don't get shopped around to different jobs , right , if you know , if you have not given your consent . Right , and that's what I like about St John Associates is that they're not shopping you around , which , again we talked CV to a hospital and then another hospital and to another hospital without your permission , Right ?
And you may be thinking well , that's their job , they're supposed
¶ Spending on What Matters
to be doing that . Yeah , well , they got to get your permission first to do that .
Yeah .
Okay , and if they don't get your permission and they shop it around , then what happens is is , let's say , you are looking for a hospital . The hospital will be well . We've already gotten your CV , Yep , and the only way we can have any type of relationship is for you to go through such and such recruitment company .
Exactly , exactly , which cuts into how much you potentially could get paid . Right , so you know , and then you can't get Hulu .
You can't get Hulu , and then you can't get Hulu .
You can't get Hulu , you can't get YouTube TV and then you got Disney Plus , right , and they get also St John Associates gets paid on contingency . So , speaking about spending , right , speaking about spending , if you are going to spend money looking for a job , at least get a job , right .
So that's what I like about them , because you don't pay them unless you actually have a match for a job , right , so that's what I like about them , because you don't pay them unless you actually have a match for a job . And that , to me , is really important because you could be throwing your money away .
You know with potentially , you know other agencies who don't necessarily work on contingency and next you know you didn't even get a match .
Well , I think also too , doctors , a lot of doctors get really hesitant about that also .
They're just like well , what do you ?
mean , I got to pay something up front , like they barely even want to get a lawyer to look at their stuff . So the fact that you can worry about that after you get a job , I think is something that you guys can feel really calm about . I do think you guys should get a lawyer to look at you .
You should pay that amount . You should pay that amount .
Absolutely so . Why don't you just quickly tell them where they can get connected ?
Yeah , so pretty much St John . You know they're big into ortho but they do a lot . They do actually all the specialties , so they're not tied just to Specialties that replace potassium . Specialties that replace potassium as well and put people on their own services . So they do all the specialties .
If you got an isolated tip-hip fracture , arthur , you can admit that okay .
So go to stjohnjobscom slash docs , okay and check them out there so that you guys can get familiar with St John Associates . I think you'll have a really good experience with them .
But I did want to talk really quickly about spending and spending on the right things versus spending on the wrong things , and so you mentioned , you know , not wanting to spend on an attorney , for example , right , so you know people will spend money on stuff .
I know where you're going with this , yeah .
People will go and spend money on things that are going to give them zero return or that's just going to indebt them even more .
Let me get an Audi S5 .
Right , yeah , let me get an Audi S5 when I could have gotten a Pinto and still gotten to work With the rooms , still gotten to work .
I was going to get it with the black and red the same way and everything . Yeah , I'm sure you were Nii , but you didn't get the Audi S5 . With the exhaust on it , yeah , and I still was tripping on getting a lawyer . I was like , man , you're paying no $600 for no lawyer .
Yeah , exactly what Exactly ? But see , but that's the thing , right , it's stupid yeah . It's okay . Look , listen , I don't want to spend money on stuff . I'm all for spending money , but spend money on things that make sense . Spend money on things that are going to give you some sort of return , some sort of satisfaction beyond .
I'm just going to get it right , because if you sign a contract and you didn't have an attorney , look at it , there are so many red flags potentially that you could have missed that . You think that big dollar sign that they put in front of you in that contract is like the end , all be all . Let me tell you something .
One that big dollar sign could literally be like just you know the bait .
Yeah , it could be 30% below what you probably should be getting . Exactly , it could be 30% low that $600 or that $1,000 that you may spend to have someone review your contract probably could get you multiples , like maybe 10% , 20% more , which can get you those vacations can get you that . Audi S5 , can get you them .
Jordans can get you all those things that you want With some Jordans , but rather than spend money on that , just get VTI . Oh Lord , it's been like several episodes since I did that . Alfred , hook it up . Put that in the what do you call it ? Put that in the show notes , yo , rather than get Jordans and an Audi right you ?
can get VTI If you get VTI .
VTI owns Nike . Okay , well , very good , VTI also owns , I'm sure it owns VW .
Okay , well , now you can get all the things you ever wanted in an index fund . Vti guys yeah , very good . No , but no , it's like , seriously , people are spending money on things that are not going to give them any return . Other thing about a contract , right ?
You thinking you oh , I'm going to save money because they're going to give me a sign on bonus , and what do you do ? You go and you spend that bad boy .
Spend that bad boy , what else are you supposed to do with that ?
Exactly , you go and spend that sign-on bonus when Before you even know whether or not you like this place . Yeah , right , so it's all about the behavior , right , like oh , I want this , I want that , I want this , and so you see money and you spend money , yeah that's impulse purchasing or impulse behavior Exactly .
Impulsive behavior and you spend that money and people might be listening and be like well , what's wrong with spending your sign-on bonus ? The problem is that your sign-on bonus usually is just a loan .
Yeah , so my sign-on bonus actually was written into the contract and at the end it said a promissory note . So what that meant is my sign-on bonus . Yes , it was a a sign on bonus , but it actually was a loan and it was paid back through service .
So every year that I completed a contract so I had a three year contract Every year that I completed , that contract went towards fulfilling this loan that they gave me initially as a bonus . If I left early , then they would prorate how much I would owe based on it .
So if I left after a year , then two-thirds of that sign-on bonus would be payable , possibly with interest , and you can take it from there Exactly . Just want to let y'all know how this works .
Yeah , so you got to be able to understand how money actually works , like what implications does spending money actually have on your life ? And I think you know like I'm talking very , you know very passionately about it . But the reason I'm talking about it very passionately . I am pretty passionate today , right ?
Yeah , I'm kind of like scolding , but it's not scolding your audience .
You got a little too much 2 out of 10 . It's not scolding the audience .
It's actually scolding my own self , right , or my old self . Is that ? You know ? I didn't realize how money actually worked Like I was fortunate enough that I wasn't necessarily a spender like that that was , you know , that was the thing you know about me . I wasn't necessarily a spender .
I didn't spend a lot of money on things that I , you know , that was the thing you know about me . I wasn't necessarily a spender . I didn't spend a lot of money on things that I , you know that I didn't need , but I do think that I did spend more money than I needed to on things that I needed . You know what I mean .
So for me it was just kind of like this is a shock , guys . Why is that a shock ? I've said that before .
Because I've said this to you all the time that you always find the most expensive solution for a problem and I'm like we could find a cheaper solution for the problem , and you say no , and then it's until this show comes out . Listen , I think we're gonna have to start airing out .
I think we're gonna have to start airing out our issues on the show because obviously , when we air our issues on our show , like your mind , like the , the , the more sensible side of your mind , right Also the cheaper side Of your mind Starts to kick in , because when we not On this podcast , really Every solution that you have Is way more expensive Than when
you on this , show you wrong .
And you be fronting and you know you guys hear my voice go up , right ? No , it's the truth . That is not true me , that is not true . Shall I give examples ? We don't have time for examples ? Yeah , go ahead , give an example . We don't have time for examples ? Go give an example . We talking about spending , right ?
Guys , listen , let's wrap this up with some tips . You have already started with the tips , but the biggest thing- is Let me give you , let me give you a Caribbean . Alright .
¶ Key Financial Tips for Doctors
How long was that ? I don't know . That was pretty long .
Alfred give a sound effect for that .
Yeah , give me , put a countdown , alfred , on that .
So , listen , let's get into some tips that can help folks who are getting . You know you're new to money and you know you're not sure exactly what to do with this money . I think the number one thing where money goes by the wayside is housing . Yeah , number one is housing right , whether you are a resident .
No , I think it's food .
No , I think it's food . No , I think it's money . Or , excuse me , I think it's housing .
So it's my tip .
You can do your tip later on . My tip is Keep your cost , your housing cost 25 or less than 25% Of your income .
Yeah , that's true .
So what that means is Whatever your rent is , please make sure that is at least Less than 25% Of whatever you're getting on a monthly basis .
Man , if you can keep it less than 25% of what you're doing on two weeks .
go ahead and do that , but for me that was my main issue . I had so much like my house cost so damn much in comparison to my check that I didn't even have time to buy money to buy a couch or anything like that .
You can afford utilities .
I can get utilities , but I didn't even have a nice couch . You didn't even want to turn on the lights . Turn on them lights no , for real . But you guys get the point . So that's my thing . I think the biggest cost is housing . Try to keep it less than 25% .
Yeah , that's true , that's true .
I know it's true Of your net income , of what your total amount is . I think , overall , this is For real guys , let's think about what makes you happy , right Like do you really need a Porsche Taycan ? Do you really need ? No , no , foo-foo , that's frou-frou .
Fruit , whatever it is . Foo-fou is what you eat in Ghana . Listen , are you ?
like can I ? Am I going to be able to say my point , or are you just going to Do your ?
tips . Thank you , but it's not foo-foo . Foo-foo is what you eat .
All right , Whatever Porsche tie can the peanut soup Vacations , the million dollar house . Back to the point that we've heard a bunch of times , which is you can afford anything as a physician , and even as maybe asula pant right , you can't afford everything . You got to be smart with what you're doing .
You can get the porsche , but maybe you have to hold off on that vacation until several years , um , and you're definitely not going to be able to get that million dollar house unless , well , you ain't gonna be able to get that I don't suggest that right and then if you get a raise , this is the most important thing if you get a raise .
So the biggest one is If you get a raise , obviously , from being your first year To your second year , second year to your third year , Right . Residents always get a raise , depending on what PGY level you are . Hey , use some of that Extra money that you Wasn't expecting To put towards debt . Use some of that money To put and increase your emergency savings .
Yep .
And then , obviously the biggest one is when you jump from being a resident to becoming an attending . You're going to go in multiples of what you made as a resident . I'd say listen , put a percentage or a portion of it into savings , pay off some debt . Pay off a bunch of your debt , if you can , and invest in stocks , if you can .
Right VTI , hook it up , hook it up Index funds , index funds or real estate . And the reason I mentioned that is you want your money to start working just as hard as you're working right like there's no point in putting your money in a savings account .
And you've been like remember those days when I'd like you'd stay with me in the call room and like you wouldn't see me from the beginning of the call until 24 hours later and I'm like sweating because I've been in an OR the entire time . You go home , you sleep , you rinse , wash and repeat and then you go and put .
Whatever you work , whatever you make , you get like less than 1% . You know APY , you know in a savings account Like you don't want that right , so you want your money to work just as hard as had Ronnie Shalev .
On Dr Ronnie Shalev , yeah , and she said something .
Shout out to Ronnie .
Yeah , shout out to Dr Ronnie , she's all into syndications and real estate and stuff and she said so . She was like the savings account is a silent killer . I was like dang .
Yeah , she's true .
Wow , I was like yo . The savings account is the hypertension of money yo .
That was me . That was me , that was me . That's crazy , yo . You try to get like this huge savings account and it makes you feel great . Episode 305 . But it's not making anything . Yo , this Can you believe . We're at 305 already .
Yeah 305 .
First of all , everybody who listened In the month of July . How many episodes Did we put on ? Oh god Too many . We put on like 13 episodes In July . We were just on one . We just wanted to just record and put things out and we're also experimenting to see how many episodes will people listen to . Thank you everyone for listening to all those episodes .
Is there anything you want to add to any of these tips ? I think we kind of covered everything Are you going to scold ?
everybody again . No , I'm not going to scold everybody again but . I'm going to tell you the old me . So when you talked about the PGY , you know one , you know two , blah , blah , blah . So I got my raise here's the problem In my PGY . One year I saw this apartment . I really really liked this apartment . Right , you saw that apartment .
It had , like the two , the loft or whatever , and so I really liked this apartment , but it was more expensive than I actually need , Like
¶ Episode Wrap-up & Closing Thoughts
I didn't need all of that . So when I became a PGY2 , I actually went to another apartment that was cheaper within the same complex and I was able to save a little bit more money that way .
I did not like your apartments and residency .
Well , whatever you weren't living there .
Well , I didn't think . It's not like . I thought that the one with the loft was better . There's just something Why'd you choose that area ? Why'd ? You choose that area . It was off of Route 1 .
It was nice . It was secluded , I wasn't bothered , it was quiet .
It was just dark . I didn't like it . Plus , you had an air mattress for a couch .
Yeah , I did , I did . I had an air mattress for a couch . Well , let me tell you that was a conscious decision actually .
No , it wasn't . Yes , it was . You just didn't have time to get a couch . No , no , no , no .
No , that was a conscious decision .
Don't listen to her , everyone . No , that was a conscious decision because I actually went furniture shopping . Don't listen to her , alfred . Don't listen to her . Make some type of Price is right , whatever . No , no , wrong , she lying Wrong .
I went furniture shopping and I determined I was like dude , I'm never going to live in Jersey . Look where the hell I am now .
Living in Jersey , enjoying it . Anyway , give me another one , alfred , and , on that note , everyone . This concludes this episode of Docs Outside the Box . We was talking about money trap number five , spending and lifestyle Creep . Sorry about the lecture , the scolding from Dr Renee , but she was on one she was on one .
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We will catch you guys on the next episode of Docs Outside the Box . Peace , peace . Hey guys , thanks again for listening as well as supporting Docs Outside the Box . Listen , this show is produced by Darko Media Group and the dope audio experience is edited by the one , the only . Christian Parry , also known as your podcast pal , links to him in the show notes .
Listen this is Dr Nii , the doc outside the box . I'll catch you on the next one , peace .