¶ Intro to Locums Tenens Benefits
Did you know Locum's Docs make , on average , 33% more than employed docs ? Got your attention now . So if you're considering Locum tenants , either full-time or on the side , you probably have a question or two , or maybe even 20 .
Locumstorycom is packed with unbiased information and tools to see what the trends are in your specialty and even make a decision if locums is right for you . My advice make locumstorycom the go-to place to learn more about locum tenants . That's locumstorycom . What's good everyone . Welcome to another episode of Docs Outside the Box .
I'm the host , dr Neem , joined by Dr Renee . Hey , so listen , if you can tell by the background , there's some background noise . If you're watching on YouTube , shout out to everybody who's watching us on YouTube . You can see that we're in a different environment . We've got people walking around hustling and bustling in the background , so we're not at home .
It's called a conference . It's called a conference , that's right . Hey , everybody , we are at the AACOM , the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine . They're having their Educating Leaders Annual Conference . We were part of the first ever Metta Christie panel .
If you don't know , metta Christie DO is the first African-American osteopathic graduate in the United States and we were on this panel yesterday for about an hour . It was me and you , as well as two osteopathic medical students , and we were talking about diversity , equity and inclusion those type of topics Moderated by the Dr Barbara Ross Lee .
She's an icon in osteopathic medicine for so many different reasons , but it was really dope to be on that panel . We didn't get a chance to record it , so we wanted to kind of talk a little bit about that on this episode .
But before we jump into that , I think the most important thing is , you know , in the last episode we talked about what it was like to travel , what it's like to , you know , kind of be in part of these events . And I think one of the persons who got us onto this panel , dr Jason Walker , phd . Dr Jason Walker , he's a PhD at .
He's at PCOM , he's at PCOM , south Georgia and one of the funny thing he said to me , he's like Dr Darko . He's talking to me , dr Darko , like I'm surprised you were able to make this event because you're working all the time .
He's a , you know , hardest working man in America .
Working all the time and , as a result , like you can't I'm . It's very rare that I'm able to go to these events .
You normally go to your events .
This is your bag , this is what you're good at . And then it started thinking to me . I was like , I started thinking I was like man , like it's true , and , to be really honest , one of the ways that I've been able to start plugging myself back in is by really controlling my schedule , knowing exactly when I'm going working locums , I think .
I think that works for me . I think if I was employed , I would not be able to go to as many conferences as we have slated for this year .
Yeah , let me tell you , as your business manager , I have definitely put a number of conferences on your schedule .
Yeah . So the way how it works is is , as a locums , I'm an independent contractor with a hospital just like how you would hire a plumber and you work with a plumber , Plumber tells you when he can work or when she can work , and then that's it .
Yeah Right , there's no salary , there's no benefits , it's just a straight fee and then with that fee , you're supposed to be able to do and purchase what you need to do , which may be you know Pl , you know plumbing , plumbing , or which may be you know like a 401k or which may be in health insurance and so forth .
So you know , yeah , yeah , I mean . So , as I said , you know you definitely , this year um are going to have a number of conferences that we're going to be plugging you into . Um , part of the reason that actually you're going to have a much busier schedule in general this year is because we are doing something a little bit different . So , did you know ?
Did you know that we're doing something different ? No , you know , you're just playing around .
No , I really don't know what you're even getting at .
Well , we're going to be doing something a little bit different .
We have a couple of campaigns upcoming this year for Docs Outside the Box , and it's going to require that we do a little bit more travel , hopefully taking this podcast on the road , like we're taking right now , and one of the places that we're going to be partnered up with is actually LocumStory .
Yeah , that's where I'm going with it . So now you know . Now I know where you're going . Okay , so that's why I remain the host . Okay , Because you don't know how to lead people in at all . Really so guys , we're doing things a little bit differently here .
Right , we are partnering up with LocumStory , okay , and they are literally the online resource for everything you wanted to know about locums . I'm telling you right now . So , when I first started doing locums in 2012 , my resource was you yeah , because you were doing locums at the time , and that's why .
I'm the business manager .
Right . So if you go to locumstorycom right now , literally it is the best way I can say is it's really unbiased information .
Yeah .
Like it's . Trust me , as someone who's done locums for 10 years , the information is very unbiased . You have the opportunity to really compare different locums agencies , which is huge right . What do they offer ? What are the type of rates , based off of the type of specialties that ?
you're looking at . That's really cold .
Because you know there's one thing to say hey , I want to do locums , but if you don't know what the rates are , and then , if you don't know what the rates are between companies , yo , what are we talking about here ?
So , yeah , no , that's really good . That locum story does that , because one of the main questions that we get whenever people ask us about locums is well , how much should I be charging ? What should my rates be ? So the fact that they even have that information
¶ At AACOM Conference: Diversity Panel
is ridiculous . So even if you remember how you found out you should be charging , oh my God .
You want to talk about that real quick .
Yeah , so I found out that I I found out how I was being paid and how much I was being paid and how much the locums agency I was working with at the time was being paid , because someone didn't realize that they were not supposed to cc me on an email .
One of the administrators at a hospital cc'd me on an email um to the locums company and he outlined all of the rates and I was like , wait , what I was like I'm not getting even half of this .
Yeah so , basically the rate that the locums company quoted to you , that's what you were getting paid . When you saw the email , the email showed exactly the total amount that the locums company was charging the hospital and you found out that you were like pennies on a dollar compared to what they were paying you yeah .
Yeah , so I mean it's , you know , it's the . The platform locum story is a really good way to just kind of compare the rates you know that you're getting . But the other thing is a lot of the questions that we get also is okay , well , will I be able to control my schedule ? Obviously , we just answered that .
Obviously the answer is yes , but can I do locums if ?
I have kids , unless you give up that power like I did . So I told you when I first started working locums , I gave my the person who handles me from a locum standpoint . So when you guys work with a company , there's going to be someone who you work with specifically .
I gave my schedule to him to arrange my gigs basically , and there was one time where actually there was a couple of times where I would finish working , I'd finish doing a 24-hour shift and then I would drive two hours away to another place and start working that same day .
Oh my God , and it didn't click to me that dude like this guy's running you ragged and you didn't have to do that . You control your schedule , right . But I just I didn't know how to like , I didn't know how to take charge of that . I didn't know I could take charge back then .
So , that's just a little bit of example of yeah , you can control your schedule .
Right , but you have to be very intentional about it . And then the other question that people often ask us , you know , is can you do locums when you have kids ? And then the other question that I think people don't even think about can you do locums internationally ?
Yes .
And we talked about that a little bit in a previous episode . When you went to Ghana and things like that , you weren't doing locums in Ghana , obviously , but you said that . You said that a number of doctors work locums while they're in Ghana .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , I mean so . We know people who . There's gigs in the Marshall Islands , there's gigs in Guam , there's gigs in just New Zealand . So listen , folks , you don't have to do things one way .
There's multiple ways you can skin a cat and I think that locumstorycomcom they do a really good job of making sure that you understand the entire scope of what to expect as a locum's doc yeah I think they do it the best out of anybody yeah like I said , I wish this resource was there when I was there , or at least you knew about it , because it probably
did exist already . No , I spoke to them , it did not exist back then , then oh wow I do my research . I do my research . It was not there back in 2011 , 2012 .
So , listen , I mean , yeah , it's good , and we're also going to be partnering with them on a special campaign to essentially show our audience exactly what it takes . How do you go through getting a locums gig . So stay tuned for that . But the link link , the link to locumstorycom is going to be in the show notes um so listen guys , come on .
Y'all can't figure that out . It's locumstorycom .
Come on now it is , but there's a special link for us , so that they know that they came from locumstorycom , so locumstorycom . Come on , guys , let's say hard no , no , but they got to use the special link to let them know that it came from Docs Outside the Box .
That's true , yeah , so if you love Docs Outside the Box and you want LocumStory to know that you went to their website because of Docs Outside the Box and we don't get anything from you clicking the link , so you can just go ahead and click the link . We just get the satisfaction of knowing that we are sending people over to locumstorycom .
Then , yeah , click the link in the show notes .
Links are always in the show notes and also , if you're watching on YouTube , it's in the show description .
Make sure you check that out .
So let's jump into how Locums allows us to be here . So we've kind of settled that Locums thing already . So now that we are here in Denver at the AACOM Educating Leaders Conference , we're making this work . So why were we invited here ?
Well , actually we were invited because Dr Jason Walker thought about us , right ? So he , you know he's a part of the . I think it's called a committee oh gosh , it's called the Committee on Diversity and Equity that the AAMC has , and we've known Dr Jason Walker for some time because he used to work at our alma mater yeah , KCU .
Shout out to KCU .
Yep , you're not sponsoring this show . Think about that , oh my goodness . But yeah , so we've been in contact with Dr Walker for a while .
You need to move over a little bit into the camera more , yeah , sure .
Act like you potted before Talking to the audience , about just the importance of diversity , equity , inclusion , belonging justice something that the AACOM is really dedicated to and trying to make sure that they address in terms of being able to create the next generation of DOs .
I think for me what I got from Dr Jason Walker is the reason he wanted us on there is because we kind of walk it and talk it . Yeah , right , and I think sometimes , when you can get too academic , that's your bag .
When you can get too academic with certain talks , you have all of these great ideas or all of these great , you figure out the problem , but you don't necessarily have solutions that actually work . And I think him having two practicing physicians on their married couple .
African American or , excuse me , Haitian American , Ghanaian American Some people may just look at us as African American . We have all of these different experiences . We've seen diversity .
We've seen inclusion work in so many different facets , from us in high school to us in college , med school and so forth and I think that's something that I want to get onto this show where we talk about the pipeline . But before we jump into that discussion , let's just take a quick break for a sponsor
¶ LocumStory: The Ultimate Resource
. This episode is brought to you by locumstorycom . Backdrop 2012 , finishing my fellowship in Miami and no decision bigger than where and how I was going to start working on my own . And there it was the fork in the road being employed versus something I had never heard of before locum tenants .
So I decided to go the locums route and I had a ton of questions . Then I stumbled a bit , but eventually I was able to stand on my own and I have been working locums over the past 10 years . Now , what about you ?
If you're considering locums , you probably have hella questions , just like I did , Like who covers my malpractice , Do I really have control over how often I work , and what are the tax implications ? Now , lucky for you , locumstorycom has the answers you need . It's packed with unbiased information and advice from docs just like you , and there's nothing to sell here .
It's just a simple resource for information , like finding out what's the average pay rate for your specialty . There's even a quiz to see if locums is right for you . So listen , take my advice . Locumstorycom is the perfect place to start . If you want to learn more about locums , that's locumstorycom , and we're back . So listen y'all .
I'm going to start this off by saying yo , Dr Renee , I don't know what it is that she's drinking . She's like a superwoman . She killed this panel . So there was a panel of four folks , right ?
Dr Barbara Ross Lee was leading this panel and this was a panel on , you know , just talking about different solutions that we can come up with that diversity issue within the AACOM , all of these different colleges of osteopathic medicine , and it was two medical students who are dope . They're great .
And then me and renee were there and I'm just sitting there and I'm like man , like we're in this big dais . The chairs are nice and comfortable oh yeah .
Yeah , it was a nice and comfortable . The lights are like yeah , it wasn't . Yeah , it was a different type of vibe for real it was really like it was the .
It was in this grand ballroom , like everybody was plugged in and there I thought this was going to be like a small panel in a small room . I didn't know it was going to be the event for that for yesterday , which was , which was great . But I gotta say yo , like renee , like whatever , you was off the chain yeah , that's your bag .
Like you handled that situation , like your ability to storyt , your ability to captivate the audience . Don't get humble on this , for real .
Don't mess it up . Don't mess it up , hold on , hold on , let it breathe .
It's a gift , you know . Hold on , let it breathe , just let it breathe for a second . Let me give you your flowers , the ability for you to speak and captivate a crowd and tell your story story talking about pipeline and talking about some of the issues that you developed or had happened to you while you were in college , and so forth . Like that's phenomenal .
I'm sitting up there I'm giving my answers . They asked me a question about finances and I'll get into that later , but my answer was just like elementary , like you went , you went cold on them on it . So I just said how about this ?
Let's , let's , let's do this question real quick that Dr Barbara Ross Lee asked you and then I want you to answer it and then I'll ask you some questions from here . Okay , okay , does that work ? That works . You're not nervous , are you ? Oh , my God , I'm so nervous .
All right , so she asked you , as you work with individuals who want to be physicians , what are some things that you think that the leaders of our College of Osteopathic Medicine should know about the hopes , expectations and fears of our future students ? Dr Renee , what say you ? What did you say ? Say exactly what you said yesterday .
Don't change it up . Don't change it up Exactly what I said yesterday , but I did say that they need to know a lot . But one of the first things that I went into was the fact that- .
Man , just answer the way how you answered yesterday . Nobody asked you to summarize , just get into it , come on .
Okay . So we need to understand right Leaders need to understand that pre-med students oftentimes they're lost , they don't actually know what it takes to get into medical school right , and without that knowledge then they're going to be at a disadvantage , and that's something that I don't know that people actually appreciate .
There's kind of a notion that people have that if you're in this process , you know exactly what it is that you're supposed to be doing and you don't .
That was a number one point that I thought was dope . Yeah , like people just assume that you are applying to school .
You know all the ins and outs , and there are things that are just not obvious Right , Particularly if you don't grow up in that type of environment If your parents aren't physicians , or if your parents maybe didn't go to college , you may not know certain things Exactly . Keep going , keep going , sis . You're cooking , you're cooking .
You're cooking . She's cooking , guys , she's cooking Come on , go at it , so you know . So I brought that to basically talk about the next point , which that's where I got into my story and I talked about how you know , I was valedictorian of my preschool class . I had always been a very good student .
I was the only student in my elementary school to get a scholarship to a private high school . Once I did that , I graduated salutatorian .
I didn't know there was private high schools in Brooklyn . But go ahead , Get out of here .
You went to a private high school .
In Newark Exactly . I didn't know there were private anything in Newark .
All right , in Newark Exactly , I didn't know that there were private anything in Newark , all right . So , but I talked about that . And then I talked about the fact that I graduated to Ludatorian from that high
¶ Dr. Renee's Academic Journey
school and then went into college thinking you know it's going to go great . Well , by the end of my first year I had a 1.9 GPA . You know me , the preschool , you know valedictorian who would have thought Like you know ?
And so and I know a lot of people who have had that experience- who actually say that , yeah , I got a 1.9 , but I started off as the preschool valedictorian . Damn , how did I go wrong .
Maybe not the preschool valedictorian ? How did I go wrong for ?
preschool .
I still have my sash somewhere that says valedictorian , somewhere Like 12 years , maybe 30 years . All right , go ahead .
But you know , what I really wanted to bring out from that story was the fact that when I went to my pre-med advisor , the person who was supposed to help me what she basically told me was , you know , that I should essentially do something else but hold on .
Before you go there , you so what you leave , and I see this is what I'm here for . Okay , so you want me to tell the whole story ? Well , tell the story and wait . The way in which you told , like you , you went from you start hold on . I ain't say you can go . Yeah , hold on a second . That's part of the reason why I'm here is because you're not .
You're as well . So what was the feeling that you had when you had the 1-9 ? Talk about that .
Well , the feeling that I had when I had the 1-9 was I actually was confused , right . I didn't really know what was going on .
I felt overwhelmed , I just felt like okay , something's not right and I really couldn't understand , you know , the feelings that I was having , and the feelings that I was having like what , and and the result that I was getting , like that , to me , was just so what do you think it was ?
was a test taking ? Do you think you weren't ready ? Do you think you were really interested in that in bio at the time , like hindsight , hindsight , I think .
What it was was I really just had poor study habits , at least for college see , this is what she said yesterday , guys , and she's leaving all this .
So that's why I gotta , at least for college . See , this is what she said yesterday , guys , and she's leaving all this .
So that's why I got to you . Got to you know , but keep going . So I think I had poor study habits , but that's hindsight . So this is one nine . At the end of your first year , at the end of my first year , and so , talking to my pre-med advisor , went into her office and said to her you know , I feel overwhelmed , I really don't know what to do .
And she said well , you know , what do you want to do eventually ? And I said well , I want to go to med school , I want to be a doctor . And she said looks at me , and she goes hmm , maybe you should go to dental school instead . And then she goes no Hold up Pause .
So at this point there is a bunch of people in the audience who are like they're kind of smirk and they're like , oh snap , yeah , right , yeah , but keep going .
Then she says , well , maybe you should go to dental school instead , and she goes , but that's hard to get into also .
And then there's that ooh in the room .
Yeah , and then she goes maybe you should go to graduate school and do something else . That's literally the advice that she and that's verbatim . Like I want you to like , I need people to understand that that's verbatim and the fact that I remember that verbatim it literally , it literally is an indication that it left such a negative impression on me .
You know that I remember specifically those words . I was 18 years old , so at the point you were lost . You know that I remember specifically those words . I was 18 years old .
So at the point you were lost , you were overwhelmed and you were going to her to try to find maybe some type of lifeline or something like that , something to you know someone to help me , and she essentially didn't even , she didn't even give me a chance , she didn't ask me well , what you know ? What's your problem ? What are you doing ? You know ?
tell me what your day is like , because a lot could change after your first year . Oh , absolutely .
And a lot did change .
This is not your third year , your fourth year , Well .
I mean . I think it's important for us to realize that at 18 years old we should not expect for people to have it all together . That's an unrealistic expectation . There are responsibilities that we would never give an 18-year-old .
All right , pause . So let's go back into that way how you're answering the question . So once you said that part of the question , or you said that part of the description of you being in an office , she's saying look , it looks like med school , dental school . That's too tough for you . Maybe you need to do grad school and so forth .
Why don't you go to keep going with the story ?
You got kicked out of school . What happened ? No , I didn't get kicked out of school , so , but what I did say was you know that , fortunately , you know , I had a way to to keep going right , like my story is very long and convoluted , um , so I didn't go into the entire thing but eventually I kept going .
But my question , you know , to the audience was well , what about those people who didn't keep going ? What about those pre-meds who fall off and you never see them again ? You actually never see them again , right ? If I were that person , you would literally never see me again .
And we've got to understand that as a profession , like , we have to take a stake in recruiting people into our profession . Like that's our responsibility .
Now there are some good , you know pre-med advisors , but I mean , let's face it , they don't necessarily have that big of a stake in the game for us to really outsource , you know , our recruitment , and especially when it comes to diversity initiatives , something that is so very important , we don't , we really shouldn't , outsource that to a whole other profession ,
which is the pre-med advisement profession . So I really think it's our you know , it's our responsibility to do that . Then I told them about the medic program and I shouted out you know the schools that are in the medic program .
I think one of the things that you talked about was pipeline programs .
Yeah .
So why don't you talk briefly about what you mentioned ?
there . Yeah , I forgot about that actually .
Yeah , I know you did . That's why I'm here , Because you know what I said . Yes , I was watching , I was in awe . Yo , I'm telling you she was cold guys .
Yeah , so I talked about pipeline programs and mentioned that the students who are told that they are not going to make it and they fall off , they don't even get an opportunity to get into a pipeline program .
Oftentimes , the people who actually even make it to a pipeline program are people those are those B and C students , maybe lower B range C students , who just need a little bit of a Of a boost . Hey , what's going on ? Let me help you out .
Exactly , and they probably were going to figure it out anyway . They probably , even if they weren't necessarily in a pipeline program , they might have figured it out . That was actually my case . I was not in a pipeline program .
So you said that specifically in the pipeline programs . What you're noticing is those are the students that would have what they would have made it anyway .
Okay , they would have made it anyway , and so we've lost a number of students who actually did need that pipeline .
So when you say that , are you saying that the people who are in there shouldn't be in those pipeline programs ? No , definitely not .
No , I think pipeline programs are extremely important and I don't want to take away , you know from people who have gone through pipeline programs because guess what , While they might have made it anyway , this probably shortened , you know , the length of time for them to get there , probably shortened , or it probably lessened the pain for them to get through there ,
right ? Unlike me , I didn't go through a pipeline program , so that probably lengthened the time for me to be able to figure out what I was going to do . Had I been in a pipeline program , yeah , I would have made it anyway , but I maybe would have made it in a shorter period of time , right ?
So I don't want to discount pipeline programs and say , oh well , you know , they're not good for anything . You're just preaching to the choir .
What do you think the leaders could do right now ?
then , so I think one of the things that the leaders can do is they need to they literally need to take the reins of recruitment . Like it can't be this . I feel like recruitment is very passive , for lack of a better word . Right , we wait for the students to come to us . Right , even if we go to organizational conferences ?
Right , we go to the organizational conferences in hopes that the students will come to us . Right , we might go to a school fair here and there , but let's face it , there are over 3,000 colleges around the country , so we can't necessarily- .
So you were proposing an active role , a very active role .
Well , one of the roles that I propose is a solution of my own , which is the medic program . Right , Look at this lady talking about the stuff that's problem . I got a solution , so you talk about your medic app .
So the reason why you talk about your medic app .
You shouted out what's the schools that you shouted out . So I shouted out William Carey university , uh , des Moines university , kansas city university and Idaho college of osteopath .
Why'd you shout them out ?
I shouted them out because these are schools that have invested in my program in particular , but because they are schools that literally are taking the reins and saying we are going to kind of not eliminate but we are going to not necessitate the middleman of the pre-med advisor , right ?
So I always encourage students to go to their pre-med advisors good , bad or otherwise . I say go to your pre-med advisor because there is something that you're going to need from them and you need to make sure that you cultivate that relationship .
But at the same time I recognize that there is value in going straight to the source , going straight to the horse's mouth .
And the horse's mouth is the medical school . So your app allows direct communication between the medical school and college students , pre-medical students non-traditional students .
Non-traditional students as well .
And on your app you allow certain events like a pre-med I talked about the Mock and Rock event . Right . So this is an opportunity for pre-meds who are using your app , non-traditional students who are using your app to go on the app and get interviewed by physicians , and other people who are in the admissions committee of medical schools .
Exactly Admissions committee
¶ Financial Burden of Medical Education
folks , faculty medical students . So yeah , this is an opportunity for them to literally interface in ways that they otherwise would not be able to interface , you know , with pre-med students , right .
So you know , the schools and pre-meds need to be like , they need to have that relationship , and right now they don't , and the only time that they actually do is if the pre-med person , right , if the pre-med individual is actually reaching out to the school . So there really isn't a very so you're like the Uber . Yes , You're like the Lyft .
I'm like the Uber and Lyft Of medical schools and stuff .
You're connecting people getting rid of the middleman .
That's right .
The taxis and the taxis being the pre-med advisors .
The taxis and the taxis being the pre-med advisors yeah , taking them places . I'm just I'm not Meeting people .
Pre-med advisors are extremely important , absolutely .
But this is just a non-traditional way of looking at communicating between pre-meds , as well as college or medical schools . Right , and medical schools .
I mean , it's just another way to you know , or another added thing that we can do to make things better , because we've been doing it this way for so long , but we still have issues with diversity , and so I feel like we've been implementing the same solutions over and over , thinking okay , well , one day it will work , and it's like , but you know it's not
working , right , I got you .
All right , so let's shift a little bit . It's not working Right . I got you All right , so let's shift a little bit . So when they asked me , they asked me in my work and teaching about finances what impact have I found on the high tuition of many medical schools , including osteopathic medical schools ?
So my answer , which was not as good as hers , I basically just kind of listed some of the numbers . I said the average medical school debt is like $215,000 . If you combine average medical debt with average college debt together , that's roughly around $240,000 , $250,000 . And it takes roughly about 13 years on average for people to pay back their student loans .
And I also mentioned that . I don't know if anybody knows we're going to talk about this on a future episode .
But Sally Mae , as well as Navient , they are the defendants on a whole bunch of what do you call those class action lawsuits where they found out after doing research is that when you call Sally Mae or Navient and you are asking for help , you're saying that you can't make a certain payment . You're struggling with making a certain payment .
There's a whole bunch of different options that they can offer you , one of them being some type of income-based repayment plan which is based off of how much money you're bringing in .
Sometimes you may be allowed , based off of how much you're making , to not even make any type of payment , and that will actually count towards the significant amount of payments that you need to make consecutively to get your loan repaid Without interest .
But what they found out after investigating is that actually the customer service workers were shifting people to forbearance .
Right , which is basically interest first .
Right , and it capitizes and all of these different things . That's what happened to me , so I can remember this specifically me calling or excuse me , they calling me and I'm ready to go into a case or I'm doing something . I'm just trying to get off the phone and I'm saying what options do I have ? Because I cannot make any more payments .
I'm struggling right now as a resident . I can't make any payments and they're saying , yeah , just forbear , and that gets them off my back for like three months , six months , and then next year , you know , we're back at it again and that's how someone's student loan payment goes from $240,000 to $330 thirty thousand dollars . And what's that ? In five years ?
Right , because that we graduated in 2006 . That was 240 000 by the time we finished all of our training in 2011 2012 we're at 330 000 each . Yeah , that's a problem . So I said that that has an impact on how , uh , medical students choose the specialties that they want to go into as a , even where they're going to practice .
It affects the communities they're going to practice in , the hospitals they're going to sign on with , and I think , after what we learned this year with COVID and a whole bunch of other different things , like the interest of the hospital is not necessarily interest of you . It's definitely not probably in the same interest of your patients .
They want your patients to do well , but that may not correlate with standard of care , with how you were trained right . So how likely are you to stand up to a hospital ?
How likely are you going to be able to advocate for your patients when you know that there's going to be some type of financial implication for you , ie not being able to make a student loan payment ? or you know justa significant change in how you get paid which is going to affect how you pay your student loans .
You know just a significant change in how you get paid which is going to affect how you pay your student loans , right ? So I think that you know . There is no talk whatsoever about money in medical school .
Yet when we get out into the real world , we are expecting money like changes .
Money affects all of the decisions that we make and it affects everything from A to Z . So I think that we need to do a better job . We need to incorporate finance , some type of talk about money , some type of talk about what are these loans going to do with you ? Maybe these are your options , Rather than save that for the exit interview , your fourth year .
This needs to be incorporated in Up front . Up front In your first year , your second year , and there is time , guys , there time to have these type of courses and classes or modules to do this . But , as you can see , my answer is not as good as hers .
No , I mean , I think you know , as far as as it relates trying to figure out a way , no as far as no . I thought your answer was actually really good . I think what happened ? No , I'm not . I think your answer was actually really good . I think that that's not .
You know , that's not a topic that most people are really used to hearing on the academic , you know , on the academic side , right .
Because I think the big thing that I notice is and that's the easiest solution , right ? Because from my perspective , I'm not in the .
I'm not in the discussions on the board , I'm not in discussions on admissions , where it just seems like medical schools or colleges in general increase their tuition and they know that automatically , all of these student loan services are just going to be like , yeah , sure , no problem , which is exactly what happens and it's like well , but the body hasn't changed ,
the body hasn't gotten more complex , like our tuition of $30,000 a year , why is it now $50,000 a year ? The body hasn't transformed into something else . So where is all this money , all this money going to ?
Yeah .
Right , why am I paying more ? Yeah , so I think that's probably one of the hardest things I think to change is the inflation that's going on with with college colleges , as well as medical student tuition rates .
But at least we got to prepare them and let them know like this is the this is going to happen and this is how you are supposed to deal with it . Right , you know to happen and this is how you are supposed to deal with it .
One of the things that , as you were talking about that , I was thinking how do we expect people to give really good care to patients when really , what they're thinking about is how they're going to make their next payment ?
What they're thinking about is how they're going to make their next payment , how they're , you know , if they're choosing jobs just based on well , I got to pay the bills , or they're leaving jobs because the job doesn't pay enough .
Right , Like how many times have you , you know , maybe heard a physician say , like well , you know they're , they're not really paying much over here , so I have to take another job , and it's like like wow , what an impact that that might have on this community . What impact might that have on ?
that on the student body , because sometimes you're talking about academics as well , who are leaving their job .
I also think that the issue that we fail to bring up is what about the what could be , the what ifs that this person could do , like what if they wanted to take a year off and go do some work in a different country , some medical , humanitarian work ?
Or what if they wanted to take some time off and work on some type of I don't know some type of community service ?
Or some innovation .
What if they wanted to take a chance to do some type of innovation ? Or what if they wanted to go back to a medical school and just be a teacher there , and maybe the pay is not as good as them working clinically , but this is what they want to do . But because of that mental math , that mathematics , it doesn't work out .
And that's what I think is the biggest issue is , is that we're talking about leadership .
We're talking about oh yeah , as a physician , you could do anything you want , but we're not properly preparing , yeah , we're not looking at the whole scope , right ? So now , ok , let's , let's , let's put on our osteopathic hats , right , let's put on our osteopathic hats because you know in in our profession , right , we are taught , it's embedded .
You know in our curriculum , we are taught , it's embedded . You know in our curriculum , it's drilled into us that it is very important to take the whole body as a unit , right ? And so if the whole body
¶ Osteopathic Approach to Physician Wellbeing
is a unit- .
She about to take the osteopathic profession to church . All right , let's go ahead .
If the whole body is a unit , right , we can't just apply that to patients .
She's cooking y'all .
Okay , we can't just apply that to patients . She's cooking y'all . Okay , we can't just apply that to patients . She's cooking . This , you know , the whole the , the body as a unit , is literally about life , that's how I see it . Gotcha , I see it as about life , right .
So you know , we are taught that when a patient comes in , that even though they're coming in and maybe their arm hurts as they're walking into the room , you should be looking at them , you should be looking at their gait , you should be looking at their demeanor , you should be looking at pretty much everything about this patient . Well , what about our doctors ?
Right , are we looking at everything about our doctors ? Are we considering their mental health ? Are we considering their financial situations ? Are we considering the things that will impact our doctor's ability to be able to be at their very , very best ?
No . So the question is is that the job of the medical school ?
Well , I would argue that it is .
So if your goal is to put out physicians who are going to be competent , who are going to be willing and able to practice , then I think you need to look at the entire physician's situation to say how best can I give , like , what are the best tools and resources that I can give them to be able to take care of communities ?
Because that's what medical schools report that they are .
I think any type of industry needs to learn how to adapt right . We see that in so many different successful companies , organizations or even professions . When things occur , they adapt , they change and so forth .
And I think , with all of these different doctors and all of these different medical students and residents talking about side hustle culture and going on and doing stuff with social media , what that's saying is that , listen , what we are getting probably is not enough and I need more . I need more preparation on A Need people where they're at .
I need this , I need that . So basically all of this stuff , I think , is a symptom that the way in which we're educating , or there needs to be more additional things that we're doing to prepare residents , doctors , medical students for basically a different world right .
Like we're still kind of training them for like world , like 30 , 40 , 50 years ago when things have completely changed . right , when the average medical school debt in 1999 was like 150 , no , actually I think it was less than that , right , but the stakes weren't as high as they are now Right . And you're not dealing with .
You know , back then the likelihood of you going into private practice was much higher than it is now , right , right . So now you're going into a situation where you're basically almost a high paid employee . So the stakes are way higher now than they were 10 years ago , 20 years ago and 30 years ago . So that's my thought , I think it is , I think it's it's .
They don't have to , but I think they should in order to keep up with current times and for us to continue to , you know , basically evolve . Otherwise , if we don't evolve , then we don't have that other issue where other you know what's the way I want to say other um , like nurses and nurse practitioners and physician assistants .
They will take over because people will be fleeing our occupation .
Right , and they're like well , they'll see the opportunity in our , in the , in the cracks right of our profession . Well , I will tell you this I was , I was definitely encouraged by the fact that that question even came up at an educational , at an academic conference .
Right , because it's almost like you just pay the price to be in the game and that's it Right . Instead of just like hey , let's actually inquire , like why is it so high ? And try to figure out why it's so high and let's talk about it Before . It's almost like I mean this is just what it is to be so high and let's talk about it before .
it's almost like I mean this is just what it is to be a doctor and that's it exactly move on , let's go from there yeah , so I was just encouraged that , you know , especially on that panel which was unopposed , and it brought everybody to the table you know to to hear and and kind of you know , get their wheels turning about this issue .
I was really encouraged that it happened at this particular conference .
Shout out to Kenneth Durgans , who was there from .
KCU .
What's his official title ?
So he is the , I believe , the vice provost of diversity at KCU .
Yeah , and also shout out to Dr Rance McClain at KCU . Yeah , and also shout out to Dr Rance McClain who was our professor ? When we were in medical school from 2002 to 2006 .
He's now at ARCOM in Arkansas .
Yeah , so what's
¶ Shout-outs and Closing Thoughts
the full name ?
I believe it's Arkansas College of Osteopathic Medicine .
I believe so . So he's there . I think he's the dean there now . Yes , he's the dean Big Tings , first of all if any of his students are listening .
He really made it clear that he wanted us to let you know that we thought he was actually one of the coolest professors in med school .
He really was .
He was a cool professor .
His pants game needed some help , but he was excellent . He was a really good professor . I remember he actually hooded me and that picture is sitting in my mama's living room so I was telling him that he says that he hoods so many people and he white coats so many people .
It's hard to keep track of all of these different things , but I told him .
I was like look , we're part of your legacy and that's the teach . One is yeah , although you don't like have these , you know unique , special relationships that go for a long way you know you still have an effect on folks and they're going to affect other people and it all comes back to you and you know .
Explain to the pre-meds what hooding is , because they may not know what that means yeah , so pre-meds , uh .
So when you start medical school , there's this , um , there's this , uh , what do you call it ? There's this ceremony . The first thing is there's this , what do you call it ?
There's this ceremony ?
Yeah , the first thing is the white coat ceremony there's this ceremony called the white coat ceremony , where you actually get a white coat that's put on you . You have to say the Hippocratic Oath . If you're an osteopath , you say the .
Osteopathic Oath . You say the Osteopathic Oath .
Like what Right ? And it basically kind of is a ceremony that kind of starts the process of you , you know , just being involved in a profession of being a physician .
But there's , someone .
Someone . You invite , someone who was monumental in you becoming a doctor . You get a doctor and they come and they put the white coat on you . That means something and then , when you graduate , four years later , you could invite another physician to put your hood on you right your graduation hood yeah . Your graduation hood on you and for me .
I had Dr Dale Sanders , as well as Dr Rance McClain , who put the hood on me .
Yeah , and you get to , especially for the hooding .
Most students will actually choose that doctor , and so for the white coat ceremony you may not know someone , so that person is usually designated for you , but for the hooding , because you may not know someone , so that person is usually designated for you , but for the hooding because you've gone through four years of medical school .
Oh , we've been through it . Oh yeah , man yeah . You actually invited a doctor , I was going to invite Dr Dre . I was like you need to come and hood me , Dr Dre , Come on no you weren't the rapper Dr Dre . I know , I know , I know that's what you're talking about .
No , you weren't Anyway but yeah , so that's what hooding is , and you know it just shows four years , so I felt like that was a good honor to bestow upon him . Yeah , he was lucky to get that he was lucky he was lucky to get that . I don't know what's up with the lights .
I don't know why the lights keep coming up and on , alfred's gonna have to fix that , but anyway . So , listen , I think that is pretty much it .
We got to get on a plane , yeah we got to get on a plane , we got to get out of here .
So listen everyone , make sure you check out locumstorycom so you can figure out more stories , more unbiased information about how locums works , how to basically incorporate how one locums company will work with another locums company , and also check out this right here AACOM Educating Leaders Conference that happens on a yearly basis .
Check out Metta Christie Dr Metta Christie and what she meant to the Osteopathic Committee and we're going to get back to our normal scheduled episodes after this and we'll go from there . Anything else you want to say .
No , I just you know I'm excited to get back to our kids .
Yeah , they're waiting for us . Earplugs ready to go . All right , y'all , we'll catch you guys on the next one .
Peace .
Peace .