¶ Feedback and Conversation on Locum Tenens
Did you know Locum's Docs make , on average , 33% more than employed docs ? Got your attention now . So if you're considering Locum tenants either full-time or on the side , you probably have a question or two , or maybe even 20 .
Locumstorycom is packed with unbiased information and tools to see what the trends are in your specialty and even make a decision if locums is right for you . My advice make locumstorycom the go-to place to learn more about locum tenants . That's locumstorycom . All right , everyone . Welcome to another episode of Docs Outside the Box .
I am your host , dr Neem , joined by Dr Rene here we go .
Ay-ay , ay-ay-ay-ay .
Are you done ?
Ay-ay , now I'm done .
You didn't hold your ear .
Ay-ay-ay-ay-ay .
Alfred , make sure you edit that out , please .
You leave that in Alfred . You're getting a little too creative with it . Now you leave that in Christian .
It's getting a little awkward now , anyway , y'all welcome to another episode of Docs Outside the Box . We got the new tagline Listen , this is a fusion of money , medicine as well as pop culture . We got a lot to talk about in this episode .
What are we talking about ? So ?
actually , this episode is going to be a feedback episode . This is going to be something related to what people have written to us , have asked us In some form or fashion . We may get some feedback on Instagram or email or what have you , but this is an opportunity for us to kind of try to respond back to a lot of the feedback that we've been getting on .
You know previous episodes , so I want to take that moment to jump into that .
Most people will call that a Q&A .
I don't know if it's Q&A , because people aren't really sending us questions . There's maybe one question . Actually , there aren't any questions , it's just feedback . Ah Right , okay , so can I just be the skip of this show , like you're the talent you , shannon , now skip . All right , there you go , you here to entertain people .
Don't do that now skip . I'm here to make sure this show goes the right way . Don't do that now skip .
You see this I'm going to get a part in my hair .
His part is strong yeah .
Like that part . Look like , seriously , seriously , somebody put it in there in 1965 . He's got a 1970s part , yo , because if you go even to my album , my photo album , you look at some of my kid , my children , child photos , you can see a strong part that used to be right here . Yeah man , oh my God , especially the Catholic school days .
Don't put that part in there . Oh my goodness Yo . So we got a lot to get through today . Guys , this is a feedback episode . Like I said , we're going to read a review from Apple Podcasts . We always love that , okay . And then we're going to jump into actually some feedback that we have gotten from our text messaging .
Remember , you can text us at 833-230-2860 . Literally , as soon as you text us , that comes directly to my phone , to her phone , so you can actually interact with us directly . And then we're going to talk about Awning , which is that online platform . Someone texted us and wanted to know what our thoughts what's our results of ?
that and then that's pretty much it , but we got a lot to talk about in these things , so why don't we jump right into it ? I got my notes . I feel like I'm skip right . I feel like I'm ready to go ?
no mercy , keep going no , because then we might have to pay for it of course I know it . It literally is no mercy , like a million times let's just make debate .
I don't make mistakes , I just make debate whatever shout out to Shout out to Lil Wayne . That's really . I actually think that's . I agree with Skip . That's the best intro and at least in that , like sports In ESPN land , they're not on ESPN , they're on Fox .
Oh sorry , that's true , I forgot they're not ESPN anymore .
No , it's not . They're not ESPN . He's not on ESPN anymore . Yeah , that's what I mean . That's what you meant .
Yeah , all right ?
Well , listen guys .
¶ Locum vs Per Diem
Let's jump into an Apple podcast review . I love these . This was a five-star review .
This was from another , dr Rene what .
When it's with one E right with an Egu at the end . Did I say it right ? Imposter .
But it's with one E . Yes , is that a man ? Well , that is the male form of that name , but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is a man , because I actually do know and went to high school with a Renee who was female and she used one E , but that is the male form of the name , renee .
Well , Dr Renee , with one E , says love , love , love this podcast . I truly enjoyed Dr Parham . Shout out to Dr Parham .
Dr Bala , that was a great , great episode . I know , I know she made it great .
So I truly enjoyed Dr Parham and Atomic Habits reviews . Love your energy guys , Keep it coming . So we appreciate that , Dr .
Renee . Thank you , Dr Renee , Thank you very much . Yay , yay , yay , yay , yay yay .
All right , simmer down now . Thank you very much for the five-star review . We appreciate that and we appreciate that feedback . Yeah , Because that lets us know what to do .
So Dr Powerarm if you guys have not listened to that , that was an episode about how this doctor was doing all the right things in terms of saving her money going into index funds and at one point she had almost $500,000 in her savings account yeah , just sitting there getting like 1% interest If that much and she finally woke up and realized that she needed to
have her money working harder for her . So she got into real estate and she's been able to really triple X , quadruple X or whatever the hell . It is 5X , 10x , whatever it is . She's doing really good right now . She's reached her FI number really fast . So that was a dope episode . And then Atomic Habits .
We've gotten a lot of , not just from this Apple podcast right here , but we've gotten a lot of feedback . I got people who wrote to me on Instagram , people who wrote to us on LinkedIn saying that they really appreciated our perspective on this book . Some people souped up that we put them on the book .
Other people just heard of the book , never opened the book , but just saw the clips of what it's done for me , right , and I'm like , hmm , maybe I should start reading this book more . Yeah , yeah , hey , it's been helping me .
So check out the most recent episode I don't even know when this episode , this episode , should come out Either way the one where I talk about 16 weeks of working out . Yeah , four books read in four months , like that is the road results of four months of actually doing and creating a system with atomic habits .
That book is dope doperty , dope yeah so , look , let's move on , because I could tell already , like so for folks who don't know , if you're not seeing us on youtube , shout out to y'all who watch us on youtube . Renee's eyes are red . The energy is not there .
Trust me , I know my wife , the energy is not there Likely she's tired mainly because she is post-call .
Am I right ? Yeah , I am , I'm post-call today . So yeah , as much as I'm trying to cut myself up and singing along with Lil Wayne , I am tired .
And at this job you are per diem correct . Yes per diem . How do you like it ?
I mean , it's good , I like being per diem because I get to choose when I work , how I work . It's very similar to locums . How I work , it's very similar to locums , you know . So , for those of you that don't know , I work typically only one weekend per month , and when I do , I work the night shift for 12 hours . Night shift . Yeah , remember that song ?
Yeah , shout out , shout out to who ?
shout out to who to .
Marvin , marvin Gaye , because that's who the song was for .
He was the same stuff . I was like , ah , you don't know who ?
it is Okay . And Jackie Robinson , not Jackie Robinson . Jackie ugh , jackie , dang it . Jackie Chan no , I forgot who else I'm tired .
Listen , anyway , anyway . So with per diem work , you are employed by the hospital . Yes , you work for them , but they have no say in your schedule whatsoever .
Yeah , pretty much . Yeah , it's , you know , like a per diem . They call it flex locums , but it's really per diem work . So you know I just kind of come in when I say that I can come in , and you know I just kind of come in when I say that I can't come in . And you know , I work , like I said , 12-hour shifts , usually a Friday , saturday , sunday .
Yeah , so you do Friday night shifts Saturday night shift and Sunday night shift and then you come back home on Monday .
Yeah .
They take care of your hotel , yeah , and then you pay your own—but you have to pay your own gas because technically you're W-2 .
Because I'm W-2 . Technically you pay your own gas , you pay your own food .
They take care of medical malpractice .
Yes .
And that , for the most part , there's really not much tax benefits . Actually , there are no tax benefits .
Yeah , there's no tax benefits because I'm W-2 .
So I think the biggest benefit is being able to work whenever you want to yeah and go from there and they cover your medical malpractice right , and then the amount of hours that you're putting in , though you're not eligible for health insurance well , yeah , I currently know , but I would be eligible for health insurance if I bumped up the number of hours so if
you were to tell someone hey , I would do per diem work or I would do locums , like just straight locums , which one do you prefer ?
Ooh , well , probably straight locums , straight locums , for me definitely .
Yeah , because Definitely straight locums for me .
Yeah , probably straight locums because of the tax benefits that I would get . Think that working straight locums just gives you that much more of a benefit than you know , than just picking when you work and how you work in comparison to per diem .
So yeah , I'd have to say locums . So I think for me , like I started thinking about , like how I look at locums now versus how I look at locums when I was you I was right out of fellowship or even during residency when you were talking about it .
I think still a lot of the terms that we talk about goes over people's heads W-2 versus 1099 versus locums versus per diem , tax benefits , all these different things , a lot of that stuff can get confusing .
So I'm really excited that you can go to locumstorycom and check out that website because I think you know when you go there you'll see literally you'll get like an A to Z type definitions on or A to Z type of what's the word I want to use or the way description , way I want to use it is .
Basically they kind of help you understand all the ins and outs of locums Right . understand all the ins and outs of locums , right . You know , without getting too like you don't feel like you're reading too much , it's really like in bite-sized information where you get it . And then , for me , I think , the other thing is the tax benefits that they talk about .
All these different things that they talk about I think are huge . Um , you know me , money talks . I like the fact that I can , you know , tell how much I'm making and how much I would make with company A , company B company C those comparisons . So that's why I like locumstorycom is because when you go there it's really unbiased information .
They give you all the information you need to know . So I like that I like money . I like to talk about money . I don't know what you like .
Well , we all know that you like talking about money , you like talking about money .
Give me my money , give me my money .
Give me my money . Yeah , we know no , but seriously , yeah , I would choose Locum over Per Diem .
I think Locum Story is definitely a great resource , especially if you're like I don't really know if I want to do Locum .
It's like Grand Hustle when people you know when they're talking about the therapist and people look at Locum Story , they're like dang . You mean Grand Crew .
Grand Crew . Yes , what did you say ? Grand Crossover ? But I think if people go to the website , they'll see that there's a lot of information there that I definitely , when I was 2012 , I didn't know was out there and stuff . So I always tell people make sure you go to locumstorycom check it out .
For me , the biggest thing that I like about it also is it gives you pay range . It gives you the typical schedule . So , if you go and you type in trauma surgeon , you go and you type in it , it will give you what the typical schedule is . It will also give you what the typical assignment length . How long will you be on an assignment ?
Whether it's one week if it's a month , if it's three months , and then it also will let you know if your field is in high demand or not .
Which , yeah , I'll let you know if your field is in high demand or not . Which , yeah , I will tell you a lot of the questions . Well , we get a lot of questions about locums , but that is one of them .
Depending on the specialty , I've gotten people you know who have asked me like , well , I don't know , is anybody really looking for , you know , an allergy or an immunologist , you know for locums , and so you know , I don't actually know the answer to that . So that would be a great place to go and look and see .
Like I don't know , is locums really good for analogists ?
Not to cut you off , but that's actually a really good point . So when I mentioned before I have it here the pay range , the typical schedule , the assignment length and then if your field is in high demand or not . It actually puts it in icons so it's really easy to read and it'll show . The last thing it says is are you in high demand or not ?
So , yeah , when people ask those questions like , can I get a job as an allergist , it's like well , yeah , like , check out this site , it'll tell you where you're going to be in demand . If you're not , it still lets you know what your rate is and then we can go from there . So I like it . I think it's dope . Guys , the link to learn about locumstorycom .
It's in the show notes . I want you guys to check it out and you know for me it's unbiased information . Get a lot of benefits .
That's where people's interest . We're going to take you through what it's like to get a locums gig , so you should stay tuned for that .
Love it . Dope Docs outside the box . We're always leveling up .
Level up , level up , level up , level up , level up . That's what I'm talking about ?
Yeah , that's what I'm talking about . Yeah , that's what I'm talking about , Yo , so let's move on to text messaging , right , Remember everybody . You can text us directly at 833-230-2860 .
Put it down there , alfred , alfred , hook it up , put it down there 833-230-2860 .
Everybody text us what you think and we'll go from there . So listen . Shayla wrote to us . She said just listen to the episode with Dr Shulay . Like you said , that was a dope episode . She made it really dope like you said , gotta get over that fear mentality if I want to be outside the box of the status quo .
And then I wrote back to her , texted back back to her directly , and then she wrote back Facts glad to be part of the community , love the show and I'll stay tuned in . You see that guys .
Like , just like that boom .
Thanks , Dr Shayla , we can communicate with each other and she can let us know what's going on . So , shayla , thank you very much for writing in . We appreciate that . And listen , we got to pay some bills . We're going to read our next text message when we get back from this commercial break . So let's take this commercial break , we'll be right back .
This episode is brought to you by locumstorycom . Backdrop 2012 , finishing my fellowship in Miami and no decision bigger than where and how I was going to start working on my own , and there it was the fork in the road being employed versus something I had never heard of before locum tenants . So I decided to go the locums route and I had a ton of questions .
Then I stumbled a bit , but eventually I was able to stand on my own and I have been working locums over the past 10 years . Now , what about you ? If you're considering locums , you probably have hella questions , just like I did , like who covers my malpractice , do I really have control over how often I work , and what are the tax implications ?
Now , lucky for you , locumstorycom has the answers you need . It's packed with unbiased information and advice from docs just like you , and there's nothing to sell here . It's just a simple resource for information , like finding out what's the average pay rate for your specialty . There's even a quiz to see if locums is right for you .
So listen , take my advice Locumstorycom is the perfect place to start if you want to learn more about locums . That's locumstorycom , and we are back
¶ Real Estate Investment Considerations
All right . So our second text message and this is going to be a long one . That's why I waited until after the break on this one . Okay , this is from Justin . He is an interventional radiology fellow . He writes are you going to come back around and tell us how your awning investment is going ?
So I don't know if you guys remember , but earlier , well late last year , we were looking for another investment property , particularly in Houston , texas , h-town , and we decided to use Awning , which is this online platform where it makes it really easy for you , particularly if you're far away , to invest in faraway markets .
It does a lot of the research for you .
We ran the numbers on awning and the numbers are very similar to the numbers that we would use on our own online calculator or that we would use in similar courses that teach you how to calculate a whole bunch of different numbers to determine if a property is worth investing or not , and to me I liked it a lot At the time .
You know , one of the biggest I don't know if it's a plus or minus , but one of the biggest things was that it was really you really kind of just locked into single family homes . It wasn't multifamily , but we were really close to purchasing a property . On Awning , we put in two , two bids , two bids .
We should have put in way more , but there was a lot going on in our life . So just long story short , no , we have not purchased a property through awning yet , right , um , but it doesn't mean that we are not .
We just got a lot of shit going on , basically we do we do we need to slow down a little bit and kind of just kind of get you know the tables , get the seats at the chair .
Yeah , you know , get the seats at the table , kind of well , yeah , yeah , I mean , you know , when we talked about Dr Parham earlier and so when I listened to her episode and then got this text message , I was like , ok , that's a sign Like we need to , we need to get back into the real estate game . And you know , just go back to awning .
I really liked awning as well , still like it , and I think it's something that we should definitely double down on for our next property , because , you know , houston is a hot market and while , yes , it's single family homes , I think that's what sells down there . Well , I think you know that's what .
Well , I think we're getting to a point that's what rents down there .
We're getting to a point , though I think we're going to have to start looking more on the outskirts of Houston , because it's picking up quick , yeah , it's picking up quick , yeah . It's to the point where now we're starting to say , hey , maybe we need to look at San Antonio , so when we jump back into this , we probably don't have to look at San Antonio .
Now , the thing that I wanted to bring up is well , why haven't we jumped into it ?
Yeah .
Let's be honest , like we've had some issues with our property , let's jump into that .
Oh yeah , the one in Pennsylvania .
Justin , we got to be real with you and let you know like we've had some issues with our property in Pennsylvania . And just to kind of give people a recap , our property , which is our first investment property ever , it's a six-unit complex . It's in Northeastern PA .
It's doing okay , it's not doing great , it's not doing horrible but it's taking a lot of our attention , yeah , and we probably need to optimize that first .
Before we jump into another property and then look , let me just be real with you COVID really threw a wrench into the property . Like we purchased the property during COVID yeah , November 2020 . Right , but what ends up happening ? I think the number one thing is that we've had several tenants who have refused to pay because of , or needing , COVID relief .
Basically , Right needing COVID relief . Yeah , we've had a couple of tenants who either haven't been able to pay or just didn't pay , and that has definitely made it , you might have to move your microphone back a little bit . That has definitely made it a little more difficult . We have two tenants that that moved out .
Yeah um well , they moved out after not paying rent for a long period of time right , exactly , and then we finally got a tenant , but then there was an issue with that , and then that tenant ended up moving out um , literally months , months within moving in yeah .
So I think overall , from a 30,000 foot view , like we did not get a chance to build up enough reserves so that when we weren't getting rent , we all we had to do was just kind of go into those reserves to pay the mortgage or to pay other bills .
And because we didn't get a chance to build that up , because we started having these issues very quickly on , you know , we had to go into our own savings to make these things work . But I think overall we're not in , I'm not turned off by it , I'm more annoyed . I'm very annoyed by it .
That I know you are .
Yeah , I'm very annoyed by it , but you know some of the things besides the folks who have refused to pay rent . They have left and we've gotten new people in . And as a matter of fact , in the rear house , where we were able to raise rent by $700 .
Yeah .
We were able to raise rent literally by $700 by bringing in someone new as well as doing renovations there . So during this time two water heaters broke . During that time we had to replace the roof on the back house . That was very expensive . We had to renovate the inside of that back house . So , you guys are saying , what's this back house thing ?
And I thought it was six units . So it's actually two properties the first property , which is the largest property , that has actual five apartment buildings in there , and then there's a little like courtyard , like grassy knoll area , and then behind there is a house that is the last unit , so that makes a total of six , so that whole entire place .
We were able to increase the rents but we had to do some renovation in there to get that rent Right . And then also , at the same time , I know there's going to be some people who are cringing , some like real estate gurus .
Don't judge us . All right , Don't judge us . We're still learning .
We're still learning , but so for the first property that has five units , the water bill is not split Right . So we are paying the water bill for that and initially , I think well , for a while up until this year , it was manageable . And initially , I think , well , for a while , up until this year it was manageable .
Then , all of a sudden , we started slowly noticing that the bill or the water usage started going up , doubled and it stayed at a doubled rate for a couple of months and then it just went up again .
And then during that time we sent our property manager over there to go check out what's going on , and I don't know if they did how , how much of an evaluation they did .
Yeah , that was questionable .
Yeah , but they finally went in and looked and found out that one of the tenants , the the toilets were leaking or the toilet was just constantly running . Right , and I know everybody kept telling me , leah , like you know , you'd be surprised how much toilets can make your water bill go up and I was like whatever .
Yeah , it really can . Yo toilets Damn it really can . We probably should go in and put like you know how people Yo put a brick in there or something , yeah put a brick or put you know bottles of water in there or something . Yeah , but toilets , definitely that makes a difference , yeah , that makes a difference .
Yeah , so you know , we're going to have a long meeting with our CPA to discuss what kind of options that we can do , Because I do think that we're probably going to be operating at a loss .
Oh yeah .
You know , this year , or at least for 2021 . What's 2022 now ? Yeah , so we're working on 2021 taxes . I think we're going to be working on that . That's just me cursory , just speaking right now . I don't know .
What are your thoughts on it ? I mean , I think once we hit our bearings with this PA property , with the one in Pennsylvania , I think you know we'll definitely hit the ground running again . I'd like to hit the ground running again with Awning . I really like the platform .
We're very busy and frankly , it's like because of so much , because we have so much going on . I'd like to use a platform that will allow us to , that basically will allow us in our busy lifestyle to be able to hit the ground running Right .
Otherwise it's going to be back at it again and then doing numbers kind of manually or plugging it in to a calculator . And I'm like even that like , if you want to run a lot of houses with you know , with all of these numbers , you can do it much easily , much more easily with awning . So that's what I'd like to use . That's my vote All right cool .
So , justin , that's where we're at . We're going to use it . We just got some issues we got to take care of , so boom , there we go .
That's a good update actually . I'm glad we updated the audience on that .
So actually , this next topic I was going to save until next episode , but I'm going to bring it up . So listen , I got to get my phone real quick . I'm going to step away for a quick second . You entertain the crowd . I'll be right back , All right .
Hey everybody , hey everybody sing , hey , go , go , go , go , go . Hey , that was horrible guys .
You told me to entertain everybody .
You didn't tell me what to do .
All . You didn't tell me to entertain everybody . You didn't tell me what to do . All right , so listen , this is something that I think actually will upset you , because it actually upsets me , because it actually speaks to the state of medical education and how expensive it is in the United States . So this was actually sent to me by one of our listeners .
Ruh-roh Rorich .
His initials are MS listeners Ruh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh-roh Dr Darko , do you think if I pursue PA school and I am in $275,000 after PA school , it's still possible to repay and be okay financially ?
So basically what I think what they're saying is do I think if they go to PA school and they accumulate $275,000 of student loan debt , are they still able to repay their debt ? I know there is PSLFf , but want to make sure I am making a wise decision . I was just listening to your latest podcast episode and rethinking my plan .
Oh , ok , man . So first of all , before he's got a point , though , before we go into that , before we go into that , I think that Right now , with as much information as there is out there about student loans , people podcasting about personal finance , all this stuff Like honestly medical education , you know the leaders of medical education need to realize you know
¶ Challenges in Medical Education Financing
hold on real quick .
That episode is doing really well , like what medical leaders need to know about pre-med students . It's doing really well .
So , yeah , that was episode 282 . Yeah , that was episode 282 . So I think , you know , the calling of medicine , right , is definitely being kind of interrupted by the yeah , by the am I going to be able to afford this ? And I think , you know , the leaders in medical education need to recognize that .
You know , you guys are not the only game in town anymore , right , that there are other voices at this table basically saying , well , if you go into medical education , or if you , you know , if you get a medical education , then fill in blank here , right ?
So medical education leaders are typically like , well , if you go into medical education , or if you get a medical education , that you will be fulfilling a dream . You'll be taking care of communities , you'll be , you know , doing all these things . You'll be fulfilling a calling . Well , the personal finance .
You know the personal finance crew is like , well , you can get a medical education , but here's what it's going to cost you and here's what you may or may not be able to pay .
And so you're not the only game in town anymore . Well , the way how I look at it is like as someone who was in college in the late 90s and graduated 2000 , late 90s and graduated 2000 .
There's a the way in which I and the rest of my , the rest of the you know , like the people in my graduating class , how they looked at college versus how people look at college now yeah totally different how they look at college .
Like now it's about just attaining skills , right , and I think back then , when we were in college , it was about what's the best school that you can go to ? Right .
What diploma , what degree you know be a reason why you can't finish your degree . It made sense back then .
But actually is , I think , a reason a lot of people are in trouble right now , which is do you necessarily need to go to like a really like an Ivy League type of school to get the skills , to get the degree that you need to go on to the next stage , Right , Right ?
So the reason I'm bringing that up , folks , is that I still think med schools take like an Ivy League mindset .
Yes .
To finances and finance in their school , which is you basically pay to play , right , right , if you want to be a doctor , if you want to be a PA , if you want to be whatever insert , whatever profession you want to do .
That happens to be something medically related , like and it's definitely , I think , at the top with medical school , it definitely is epitomized by this you got to pay to play .
And I think that they're not really thinking about how they're compromising the mission , the oath that we , as doctors , take and for us to really make decisions that are just out of our you know , out of you know , our our what's the word I want to use ? Out of our skill set , purview , whatever .
It's not the skill set , but what I'm talking about is like there's this like empathy that we have .
I gotcha , I gotcha . There's this good nature that we have .
You know how people say , like , medicine is the last noble profession .
Yeah , it's a calling .
There's a calling right Like you're compromising or , excuse me , that calling can be compromised when you got a ton of student loan debt and you already have already significant amount of people making decisions as to what specialty they're going to choose , what parts of the country they're going to use , they're going to go to , based off of the amount of money that
they're going to be making right . So when this guy brings up this concept , I'm like yo . This is the issue , like what he's saying is epitomizes the issue .
Yeah , that literally is what's going on right now .
Like that is the thing , right now Like should I be a medical professional if I'm going to take on all of this ?
debt . And so you know , back in the 90s , right , and you know , before all of this , especially before there was so much information about student loan , debt and just personal finance in general , people used to say , well , college is an investment , college is an investment .
Now people are taking that to heart , like , okay , if college is an investment , what's my ROI and how long is it going to take me to be able to do that ?
And ROI no longer means just how much am I going to be able to get with this degree , it's how much am I going to be able to pay back , and then what am I going to have left after I get paid ?
People are asking the questions that they should have been asking in the 90s and the 2000s . And from my perspective it just seems like , okay , well , tuition is always going to go up as long as there's going to be a guarantor to make sure that the loans are going to be there right .
So yeah , I mean , if you know for a fact that Sallie Mae or Navient which gives me all my anyway which , if you already know that they're always going to be there to provide these loans , what stops you from increasing the tuition right ? Right so that's a major issue .
So , with you know what MS is mentioning , is you know his point about yeah , I'm going to be in $275,000 of debt as a physician assistant . Can I still do
¶ Considerations for Paying Off Student Loans
this ? You know , initially , when I was in medical school , if I saw this I'd be like I'd slap in the back of the head and be like yo , get your shit together Like come on . What you thinking ? Are you trying to be a PA or what Get her done right ? I don't know if that's necessarily the right perspective to have .
Right Like these are real-time decisions .
It's almost like that Twitter post that went out where the med student said that she didn't realize the consequences of her decisions and I think , from a you know , if you're looking from an old man's perspective or someone from a perspective of get off my lawn it's very quick to say , yeah , like you should have made decisions before .
Like there's a bunch of people from different economic backgrounds , socioeconomic backgrounds , who don't really think about these type of things , right .
So for us to quickly say , or , or for some people to say , quickly say , yeah , like that's the reason why you made this decision , because you're financially illiterate , I don't know , that didn't sit right with me , right .
So I think , someone who's thinking about becoming a professional , on one hand , I'm like look , if this is what you really want to do , then this is what you really want to do , right , because there's a way to get to the point where you can get out of debt and do this . But also , at the same time , it's like damn , $275k .
We're not even talking about interest . That's a lot of money , that's a lot of things to deal with .
Yeah , I mean . So this is what I would say to MS . What I would say is what you have right now is one number . Change your initials too , man . What you have right now is one number , right , and I think it's always important to recognize the fact that one number alone doesn't necessarily give you an equation , right ? So you , what does that mean ?
In other words , you can't have an equation with one number One equals what Like . What does that mean ? In other words , you can't have an equation with one number One equals what Like . What does that equal , right ? In other words , you need more numbers . You need to be able to see .
You know what is the likelihood that you're going to be making a certain salary , gotcha .
You need to be able to see .
you know , okay , if I live in this part of the country , you know what are my living expenses going to be Like . You need more numbers right to be able to make this decision , because if you just look at one number , that's a very limited scope .
Yes , $275,000 , that's nothing to just sneeze at , right , like it is a lot of money , but we don't know what that means , relatively speaking , when that person gets to the point to when they become a PA and they're going to be paying it back . So , do you plan on getting a house ? Do you plan on getting a car ?
What is your current status in terms of debt ?
What type of hospital situation are're going to be in Right ? Are you going to be in a clinic based ?
Exactly .
Because right now I looked it up like average not average , but like the salary range is anywhere between like 85 to like maybe even 120 , even higher than that for physician assistants . It's actually I might even be wrong .
I may be working with old information , but mathematical wise it could be wrong , I may be , working with old information , but mathematical-wise it could be done .
Ms , like , you definitely can use a combination of these benefits with student loans to be able to pay off your student loan debt , live a life that you want but also , at the same time , make a huge dent in your student loans , and I think you can do it . I definitely think you can do it based off of your income . But I do see what you're saying .
There's just so many different variables that we need to know more to be able to give them a definitive answer . But I think overall , 30,000 foot view like hell yeah , yeah , it is doable .
It's just a question of how much of it do you want to do , right , you know ? How much of it do you want to do right ? At what other cost do you want to do this right ? Because that might mean foregoing ? You know , a new house , right , you know , for several years .
No Tesla , yo Right , that might be foregoing a car , you know that might be foregoing , like that big vacation that you wanted . Car you know that might be foregoing , like that big vacation that you wanted . You know , if you , you know , even wanted to get married , that might mean you don't have that big of a wedding .
¶ Financial Planning for Future Success
I still remember there was a young , there was a young physician assistant that came on when I was like in my third year of when I was working on my job and he had a ton of student loan debt and the number one thing that I remember he kept talking about is I want to get a new car .
Right , oh yeah , I remember , I remember .
Yeah , and I want to get a house . And then things would always change , like he was always thinking , thinking like three , four or five years down the line . But I was just like , dude , like the biggest thing that you got to worry about right now is those , that student loan debt yeah , because it's going to affect so many different things in your life .
Yeah , and I remember him like we would just sit and just talk and I would do the mathematics with him , yeah , and just say , look like you get that new car , I get that , you want that , but think about how much money you can just siphon off to your student loan payment .
Yeah , I remember that . You remember that . Yeah , I remember he was always talking about he wanted a new car and a new car and he was a PA , which is really , you know , really appropriate for this discussion right now , but yeah , but he was doing really good because he would get a lot of money through or an additional income through overtime . Yeah .
So he was good with his money and he listened . Yeah , and he delayed a lot of the major decisions and purchases yeah , he eventually did get that new car . He did , yeah , but he did it in a smart way . So I'm really I'm super proud of him Over years too Like he waited .
So , like you know from him saying he wanted the new car , to him actually getting the car , there were a lot of things that he did financially for himself before he got to that point .
And I think the cool thing too is that he educated himself on how to properly invest . Exactly point , and I think the cool thing too is that he educated himself on how to properly invest . So I remember he would come back and say , hey , these are the funds that are in our 401k , does this make sense ? And I'd say yes or no .
And then I remember him maximizing that . And then he would find his . He got , he found his own and started his own IRA and said I want to use this and some of the things that he said . I knew he was doing the work . He was like , hey , on my own IRA , like the index funds are way better than what's in a 401k , which is usually the case Right .
And then I was like man , my man is doing the work . And then he , like , was able to drop 100k off of his student loan debt , right , like in , I think , two years .
Yeah , exactly , and he ended up getting married . Exactly , and he ended up getting married , yes , ended up having a baby , and was in way better financial , you know , in a way better financial circumstance at that point than when we first met him . Yeah , yeah , remember that .
That was a great story , if that PA is listening . Man , you owe me money yo . How about this yo ? You owe me some money yo .
That was a great story , that literally it was great to watch . I should have .
Alfred , just put the name of the PR in the show notes or right on here and be like yo . Put my cash app right there . No , don't Give me my money . Here's my QR code . Bless my cash app .
Alfred , hook it up , bless my cash app .
So , ms , our advice is listen . For me , my thought process is if you really want this , then yes , you should go after it . Like , I think you should always consider the economics , the money , the numbers with any type of decision , but I think , ultimately , the most important thing is do you want to do this ?
Yeah .
Right , like if PA school costs $1 , but you really hated it are you going to do it ? Most would say hell , no , like I ain't going to spend a dollar to do something that I completely hate .
Right .
Right . So I think it's really important to always have that overarching theme of is this really what you want to do and this is what you really want to do ? Then , like you said , you can fill out the rest of the equation and find out . Are you willing to make certain sacrifices to make this dream come through as well as come ? Did I say come true ?
come true , not through my bad come true , and how can you make this dream come true as well as get the life that you've always wanted ? Because , let's be honest , like taking care of patients is great , taking care of people in that fashion is amazing , but also , at the same time , we won't be compensated well for that right .
Right , absolutely . So let's be real with that . Yeah , I think MS you know so this I'm just going to say that if MS does this , I think MS will be successful . And the reason I think and I don't mean successful , just as a PA you know . To complete , Keep going .
I'm going to get through this . Keep going .
To get you know , to get through PA school . But I think that MS will be successful financially and the reason that I think that is because the work is actually being done up front . Right , the work is being done up front .
He's way ahead of the game if he's asking these type of questions .
We don't know if that's a he or she .
Oh , it's a he .
It's a he sure .
I see his pictures , profile pictures .
Okay , okay , okay , because you didn't say all that I was trying to be all neutral , was it ? Necessary ? Well , yeah , because I didn't know if that was a he or she . But anyway let me finish my point . So I think that MS will be successful because the work is being done up front and it's not an afterthought . Obviously he is educating himself .
You know very early on in the process which a lot of people don't even do .
They just go in blindly .
They just go in blindly . We went in blindly , and so I Speak for yourself . We went in blindly . Okay , mister , they told me to pick a number and I put maximum on my financial aid . I didn't even put a number . It's like what .
Did you see that clip that Alfred made Maximum ?
It was true though Yo , alfred , be hitting those clips yo , but yeah , so good luck , you know . Let us know what you finally do decide and how you came to that conclusion .
Don't sleep on military scholarships , Don't sleep on the federal government scholarships like the what is the health ?
National Health Service Corps . National Health Service Corps . National Health Service Corps yes , LF and also State .
Exactly . Do not sleep on going to rural as well as suburban areas where hospitals individually will give you some type of financial aid to make sure that this occurs Without you having to fork over so much of your own salary towards your own student loan debt . You can do this financially . You can make this happen .
Just know that there's a whole bunch of different options out there and , like I said , it may not align with the dream that you've always had , but you just may have to just kind of fine-tune it a little bit and oftentimes you'll find out that that new dream is way better .
Yeah , absolutely , because you have a dream in your head but you don't know how that's really going to pan out . Like if you had asked me if my life was going to be like this , you know , 20 years ago I'd be like no way .
Yeah , you know , but I really hope medical leaders . Here I am with you , I should pinch you , but I wake up from this dream , right , oh snap , or this nightmare . But I do hope that medical leaders are listening to this type of listening to this episode , because listen .
Yeah , this is a question , boy , this is a really interesting question .
This is indicative of the times , of what people are thinking . If you are coming , if you're looking for people from certain neighborhoods , from certain demographics ?
if you're looking for underrepresented people in medicine , these are the questions that need to be answered . Look , that's just what it is . Let's be plain Jane .
The majority of people who are applying to medical school are of a certain status . These are the people who don't need financial aid and so forth . The stats are there . It's on the AAMC's website . I don't know if it's on AACOM's website .
I'm not sure , but yeah , it's on AAMC for sure .
Right , but there's a small percentage who don't come from that very strong position and are using medicine as a come-up , which is completely fine . But when you have more and more student loan debt and you have these huge financial barriers , what you're doing is you're closing off the ability for these folks to apply to school , to feel like they're welcome here .
So it's something that I think that they need to address . Yeah , even beyond MS's question as a physician assistant , this is something that I think that we need to address . It's a major issue and , ms , thank you so much for reaching out to us . He wrote to me through IG , okay , great . So guys , look , it's IG . There's text , right .
Let me say the number again . Alfred , put it on the screen 833-230-2860 . You could also email us and let us know what's going on , and that's about it for the show , actually . Yeah . So on the next show , though , we're going to talk about something about this card right here that I got . I'm going to read this to you .
It says you are eligible to receive a payment from the Navient Multistate AG Settlement .
Yay , On January 13th 2022 , our office announced a mult-state settlement with Navient to resolve allegations of unfair and deceptive student loan services or servicing practices , and practices including steering federal loan borrowers into forbearance instead of counseling them about income driven repayment plans . You qualify to receive a payment of approximately .
One dollar , one dollar .
So we're going to talk about this on the next episode . So obviously Navient got their asses sued , class action
¶ Podcast
and people getting money .
So when you guys heard that story , but when ?
y'all heard this story . Y'all thought we were crazy . When I told you I was in between cases , I was in residency , and I would say what do I need to do to get you guys to stop calling me ? And the number one thing they said was do forbearance . Yes , yes , same . Here At the time I didn't know anything else Same .
And it turned out that they had other plans , they had other things that they could have told us about . Yes , Same . Shame on you , shame , shame on you , and it's not even a joking matter . You owe us some money , yo ?
So , however amount that they're going to say , I'm not going to say that until the next show , but we're going to talk about that on an upcoming episode of Docs Outside the Box . So listen , justin Shayla , as well as Dr Renee , thank you so much for reaching out to us , as well as MS , thank you for writing .
The last thing I was going to say is , ms , don't sleep on doing locums . As a PA , you can do that also .
Oh yeah , that's true .
Check out locumstorycom . They got stories from a whole bunch of different medical practitioners . It's not just physicians up there . They got stories from PAs up there Also locumstorycom . And listen , guys , we and catch y'all on the next episode . Peace , Peace .